Re: [bolger] Re:LIGHT SCHOONER


On Oct 7, 2010, at 2:51 PM, Bruce Hallman wrote:

If I remember, the "removable house", is supposed to be a tent (slung
on the booms).


Yes. And gilding these lilies rarely is as good as originally conceived. But here are Nels' requirements:

I know the obvious option is to use a boom tent. But what if it starts
raining while still under sail and the first mate wants to get in under
the weather? Or having it closed off and when you arrive at an anchorage
your bed is dry, even in the rain?


Bolger6 Files. Looks great!

http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/4EKuTLTqxO253Jj1OskDLafFoBB8qmSSoKjImYMoK5C\
bPh13Ou2md5aLdpWQjtoW69yS_s62T1U9OQApzNn96ZPXgj6-1Q/scoonerWatcher.jpg

Nels


--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "alefoot" <dgw@...> wrote:
>
> As part of an earlier discussion long ago I posted a sketch showing
the Light Schooner rig grafted onto the Birdwatcher hull. It was a
"quick and dirty" exercise, taken not much further than to confirm that
sail areas and lateral planes could be made to line up. That sketch is
probably still up on one of the four or five Bolger Yahoo groups....
> I remember liking the idea, and the look.
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" <arvent@...> wrote:
>
> While on the subject of Birdwatcher type cabins, I may be losing my
> marbles in my dotage, but I seem to recall some mention of a cabin of
> that type for a LIGHT SCHOONER.
> Thoughts?
>

As part of an earlier discussion long ago I posted a sketch showing the Light Schooner rig grafted onto the Birdwatcher hull. It was a "quick and dirty" exercise, taken not much further than to confirm that sail areas and lateral planes could be made to line up. That sketch is probably still up on one of the four or five Bolger Yahoo groups....
I remember liking the idea, and the look.
> > That's the thing, Nels. The front cockpit has only about 30"
> > headroom, but enough to lie down.
> > What about leaving the cockpit stock and fitting a removable house?

If I remember, the "removable house", is supposed to be a tent (slung
on the booms).
Mark.

The same thought occurred to me when looking at theMargaret Ellen build photos. Build to plan and then consider a removable topper. That way one can evaluate the interior space and headroom better, before committing to something that may not be practical.

Thanks,

Nels

--- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Mark Albanese <marka97203@...> wrote:
>
> That's the thing, Nels. The front cockpit has only about 30"
> headroom, but enough to lie down.
> What about leaving the cockpit stock and fitting a removable house?
> Such a light boat might not like the entire crew weight aft.
>
>
> On Oct 7, 2010, at 6:48 AM, prairiedog2332 wrote:
>
> > Came across this sketch:
> >
> > http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/
> > UMStTMjLN6Kw6C7EIqfgveYg7XThPSF4bZYzmoktW_Liko3HN7FsjyQJOrmlzTakxXSc9L
> > kQxVpcXF1gEo-HLryNWUop/Light%20Scooner/LSME%20Photos/02LSx2.gif
> >
> > In this file:
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/files/Light%20Scooner/
>
That's the thing, Nels. The front cockpit has only about 30" headroom, but enough to lie down.
What about leaving the cockpit stock and fitting a removable house? Such a light boat might not like the entire crew weight aft.

Came across this sketch:

http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/UMStTMjLN6Kw6C7EIqfgveYg7XThPSF4bZYzmoktW_Liko3HN7FsjyQJOrmlzTakxXSc9LkQxVpcXF1gEo-HLryNWUop/Light%20Scooner/LSME%20Photos/02LSx2.gif

In this file:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/files/Light%20Scooner/

Jon Kolb built one with a cat rig and identical sails.

http://www.kolbsadventures.com/light_schooner_1.htm

Too bad about the flag placement. That one would make a great calendar photo!

Nels

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Mark Albanese <marka97203@...> wrote:
>
> That's workable, though it can't be very high without looking pretty
> awkward at such a forward position, not to mention interfering with
> the fors'l. The front cockpit itself is better than 6' long and
> nearly 4 feet wide on the bottom at bulkhead #2, shrinking to 18" at
> bulkhead #1. Just large enough for a happy couple.
>
> A normal, fully covered house would be difficult to climb into and a
> possible death trap in a turnover. A slot on top would make entry and
> exit much simpler, though if camping in it you still have to figure
> out a way to close it up from the inside.
>
> Measure twice; cut once.
> Mark
>
>
> On Oct 6, 2010, at 7:41 PM, prairiedog2332 wrote:
>
> > While on the subject of Birdwatcher type cabins, I may be losing my
> > marbles in my dotage, but I seem to recall some mention of a cabin of
> > that type for a LIGHT SCHOONER.
> >
>
That's workable, though it can't be very high without looking pretty
awkward at such a forward position, not to mention interfering with
the fors'l. The front cockpit itself is better than 6' long and
nearly 4 feet wide on the bottom at bulkhead #2, shrinking to 18" at
bulkhead #1. Just large enough for a happy couple.

A normal, fully covered house would be difficult to climb into and a
possible death trap in a turnover. A slot on top would make entry and
exit much simpler, though if camping in it you still have to figure
out a way to close it up from the inside.

Measure twice; cut once.
Mark


On Oct 6, 2010, at 7:41 PM, prairiedog2332 wrote:

> While on the subject of Birdwatcher type cabins, I may be losing my
> marbles in my dotage, but I seem to recall some mention of a cabin of
> that type for a LIGHT SCHOONER.
>
Good point - never thought of that!

Way smaller and lighter displacement therefor cheaper to build. (Plans are only $45 and the sails likely a lot cheaper.) Only room for two whereas WDJ can take 6 people easily, all under cover. WDJ, requires water ballast tanks, and a larger engine. Maybe costs 10 times as much once finished out? Not so easy to trailer and maybe a bigger and more expensive trailer and tow vehicle?

WDJ is capable of blue water passages, with live aboard accommodation. LS intended for sheltered waters only, and the suggestion of perhaps minimal camping capability with a small birdwatcher-type addition.

Realistically a "standard" Birdwatcher makes more sense, but I like the practicality of a transom hung engine and the idea of that schooner rig.

Nels

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Christopher C. Wetherill" <wetherillc@...> wrote:
>
> Isn't this pretty much a William D. Jochems?
>
Isn't this pretty much a William D. Jochems?

On 10/6/2010 10:41 PM, prairiedog2332 wrote:
While on the subject of Birdwatcher type cabins, I may be losing my
marbles in my dotage, but I seem to recall some mention of a cabin of
that type for a LIGHT SCHOONER.

I have often admired our esteemed moderators build site on the web.http://www.carlsondesign.com/lscooner.htmlSo if the forward cockpit was enlarged with the birdwatcher topsides
extended out to the gunwales instead of having side decks,  could two
people sleep in there? Safe and snug under a birdwatcher-style cabin
with the slot closed off?

I know the obvious option is to use a boom tent. But what if it starts
raining while still under sail and the first mate wants to get in under
the weather? Or having it closed off and when you arrive at an anchorage
your bed is dry, even in the rain?

The one thing I have reservations about this design is the daggerboard,
having badly damaged a sailing dinghy that had one. I would like to have
a leeboard instead, but not sure if it would work on this design.

My main obession is having one of these out on my lake with tanbark
sails, amongst all the power, ski and houseboats. Just slipping along as
the sun sets...

Thoughts?
Hi Harry,

I respect your observations. I assume you are referring to the "His and
Her Schooner" on page 121 of BWAOM?

First I find the rudder design on that version rather complicated. Next
is that heavy daggerboard and then no place to install a small outboard.
I think it is more designed for off-shore whereas I am located on a very
protected lake area notorious for light winds in summer and thus all the
houseboats out there. And the water is warm once July rolls around.

Although it is often touted as fast speedster day boat, much of the time
might be spent "ghosting" less than a mile from the shore and just
being out on the water with grand kids. I could add some ballast with
iron weights attached to the bulkheads as I have about 150 lbs from a
couple of old training machines. If the wind pipes up just dowse the
sails and fire up the outboard and head for shore.

I have seen a lot smaller boats used for camping, but even a small
birdwatcher house might be useful just as a shelter for the kids if it
turns chilly or rains. It might even add some flotation if it does turn
over?

Pure speculation at this point.

Nels


--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
>
> The one thing that has stood out in everything that I have read
about
> the Light Schooner is it is not a camping boat. I think the best
> description of one would be performance sport day sailor. You wouldn't
> use it for camping for the same reasons you wouldn't use a Flying
> Dutchman for camping. You could use the Singlehanded Schooner for
> camping, and I would consider it in a warmer clime than where I live.
>
> HJ
>
> On 10/6/2010 6:41 PM, prairiedog2332 wrote:
> > While on the subject of Birdwatcher type cabins, I may be losing my
> > marbles in my dotage, but I seem to recall some mention of a cabin
of
> > that type for a LIGHT SCHOONER.
> >
> > I have often admired our esteemed moderators build site on the web.
> >
> >http://www.carlsondesign.com/lscooner.html
> >
> > So if the forward cockpit was enlarged with the birdwatcher topsides
> > extended out to the gunwales instead of having side decks, could
two
> > people sleep in there? Safe and snug under a birdwatcher-style cabin
> > with the slot closed off?
> >
> > I know the obvious option is to use a boom tent. But what if it
starts
> > raining while still under sail and the first mate wants to get in
under
> > the weather? Or having it closed off and when you arrive at an
anchorage
> > your bed is dry, even in the rain?
> >
> > The one thing I have reservations about this design is the
daggerboard,
> > having badly damaged a sailing dinghy that had one. I would like to
have
> > a leeboard instead, but not sure if it would work on this design.
> >
> > My main obession is having one of these out on my lake with tanbark
> > sails, amongst all the power, ski and houseboats. Just slipping
along as
> > the sun sets...
> >
> > Thoughts?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging
dead horses
> > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred'
posts
> > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
The one thing that has stood out in everything that I have read about
the Light Schooner is it is not a camping boat. I think the best
description of one would be performance sport day sailor. You wouldn't
use it for camping for the same reasons you wouldn't use a Flying
Dutchman for camping. You could use the Singlehanded Schooner for
camping, and I would consider it in a warmer clime than where I live.

HJ

On 10/6/2010 6:41 PM, prairiedog2332 wrote:
> While on the subject of Birdwatcher type cabins, I may be losing my
> marbles in my dotage, but I seem to recall some mention of a cabin of
> that type for a LIGHT SCHOONER.
>
> I have often admired our esteemed moderators build site on the web.
>
>http://www.carlsondesign.com/lscooner.html
>
> So if the forward cockpit was enlarged with the birdwatcher topsides
> extended out to the gunwales instead of having side decks, could two
> people sleep in there? Safe and snug under a birdwatcher-style cabin
> with the slot closed off?
>
> I know the obvious option is to use a boom tent. But what if it starts
> raining while still under sail and the first mate wants to get in under
> the weather? Or having it closed off and when you arrive at an anchorage
> your bed is dry, even in the rain?
>
> The one thing I have reservations about this design is the daggerboard,
> having badly damaged a sailing dinghy that had one. I would like to have
> a leeboard instead, but not sure if it would work on this design.
>
> My main obession is having one of these out on my lake with tanbark
> sails, amongst all the power, ski and houseboats. Just slipping along as
> the sun sets...
>
> Thoughts?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>I seem to recall some mention of a cabin of
> that type for a LIGHT SCHOONER.

I don't recall that mention, but it would fix the problem that a capsized Light Schooner is not self rescuable, Or so I've read.

Reed
While on the subject of Birdwatcher type cabins, I may be losing my
marbles in my dotage, but I seem to recall some mention of a cabin of
that type for a LIGHT SCHOONER.

I have often admired our esteemed moderators build site on the web.

http://www.carlsondesign.com/lscooner.html

So if the forward cockpit was enlarged with the birdwatcher topsides
extended out to the gunwales instead of having side decks, could two
people sleep in there? Safe and snug under a birdwatcher-style cabin
with the slot closed off?

I know the obvious option is to use a boom tent. But what if it starts
raining while still under sail and the first mate wants to get in under
the weather? Or having it closed off and when you arrive at an anchorage
your bed is dry, even in the rain?

The one thing I have reservations about this design is the daggerboard,
having badly damaged a sailing dinghy that had one. I would like to have
a leeboard instead, but not sure if it would work on this design.

My main obession is having one of these out on my lake with tanbark
sails, amongst all the power, ski and houseboats. Just slipping along as
the sun sets...

Thoughts?