Re: [bolger] Re:Littoral Combat Ship



--- OnSun, 10/24/10, Eric<eric14850@...>wrote:

From: Eric <eric14850@...>
Subject: [bolger] Re:Littoral Combat Ship
To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, October 24, 2010, 9:51 AM

 

Even if the Navy doesn't want it it would make a very good drug runner. All those sloping topsides are for radar stealth. This would be a very hard to detect vessel. If it leaves as little wake as Sneakeasy, virtually undetectable even from the air or satellite. I expect well see boats like this in operation.

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Fred Schumacher <fredschum@...> wrote:
>
> On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 8:00 PM, John Huft <t1ro2003@...> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> I think what you're looking for is the Very Slender Vessel (VSV).
> >>
> >
> The more I look at the photos athttp://www.specialoperations.com/Navy/VSV/the
> more it seems to have Bolger written all over it. The VSV appears to be
> based on a rounded box keel with sponsons. The sponson hull meets the water
> line at about hull midpoint. It is like the box keel Sneakeasy (with
> dreadnought wave piercing cutwater) but lengthened.
>
> This would make a good patrol boat in pirate waters. Several of these in
> camouflage paint, with radar on telescoping poles, and supplied by a mother
> ship, could patrol a large area with quicker response time than standard
> naval craft. With their low profile, they would be virtually invisible.
>
> fred s.
>


Even if the Navy doesn't want it it would make a very good drug runner. All those sloping topsides are for radar stealth. This would be a very hard to detect vessel. If it leaves as little wake as Sneakeasy, virtually undetectable even from the air or satellite. I expect well see boats like this in operation.



--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Fred Schumacher <fredschum@...> wrote:
>
> On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 8:00 PM, John Huft <t1ro2003@...> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> I think what you're looking for is the Very Slender Vessel (VSV).
> >>
> >
> The more I look at the photos athttp://www.specialoperations.com/Navy/VSV/the
> more it seems to have Bolger written all over it. The VSV appears to be
> based on a rounded box keel with sponsons. The sponson hull meets the water
> line at about hull midpoint. It is like the box keel Sneakeasy (with
> dreadnought wave piercing cutwater) but lengthened.
>
> This would make a good patrol boat in pirate waters. Several of these in
> camouflage paint, with radar on telescoping poles, and supplied by a mother
> ship, could patrol a large area with quicker response time than standard
> naval craft. With their low profile, they would be virtually invisible.
>
> fred s.
>
On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 8:00 PM, John Huft<t1ro2003@...>wrote:

I think what you're looking for is the Very Slender Vessel (VSV).

The more I look at the photos athttp://www.specialoperations.com/Navy/VSV/the more it seems to have Bolger written all over it. The VSV appears to be based on a rounded box keel with sponsons. The sponson hull meets the water line at about hull midpoint. It is like the box keel Sneakeasy (with dreadnought wave piercing cutwater) but lengthened.
This would make a good patrol boat in pirate waters. Several of these in camouflage paint, with radar on telescoping poles, and supplied by a mother ship, could patrol a large area with quicker response time than standard naval craft. With their low profile, they would be virtually invisible.
fred s.
On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 8:00 PM, John Huft<t1ro2003@...>wrote:

I think what you're looking for is the Very Slender Vessel (VSV).  It even has a folding nose.  Here's a picture of it on a trailer with the nose folded.http://www.specialoperations.com/Navy/VSV/vsv2.jpgIt looks like a Sneakeasy on steroids to me.  I'll guarantee it'll fit in a Special Ops C-130.
John Boy

I did work up some sketches for Wooden Boats' latest fuel efficient boat design contest, but never submitted them. My design was based on Sneakeasy, but with a tunnel stern (I want to use it on a river with snags & half submerged logs), and folding over, like Perfect Skiff, so that it would fit on a 12 foot trailer (because that's what I've got on hand). There's a lot of potential in Bolger designs to adapt them to all kinds of uses. The simplicity inherent in the design concepts Bolger developed makes his work a treasure trove for future experimentation and adaptation.
fred s.
I think what you're looking for is the Very Slender Vessel (VSV).  It even has a folding nose.  Here's a picture of it on a trailer with the nose folded. http://www.specialoperations.com/Navy/VSV/vsv2.jpg  It looks like a Sneakeasy on steroids to me.  I'll guarantee it'll fit in a Special Ops C-130.
John Boy

 

 

."It's the tides, man.  They can either work for you or they can work against you...
Confidentially, I've had this problem with the tides before."
--Captain Ron


From:Bruce Hallman <hallman@...>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent:Fri, October 22, 2010 6:36:37 PM
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re:Littoral Combat Ship

 

> No hits yet from google on Virginia's SACPAS, though it is said to have been built. The LCS itself looks, "( Monitor derived )."
> Mark

At the 2009 memorial I talked with Mike Bosworth about the landing
craft and it has been a years time passed so I forget some of the
details. This was 'big picture' preliminary research for the navy
they were doing. One of the constraints was that the landing craft
needed to be shipped around the world within existing naval freight
ships, and that the maximum dimensions were determined by the the
cargo vessel sizes. To achieve additional length (and hence, hull
speed), I recall they were considering folding the boat like with
Folding Schooner, Insolent60 or PerfectSkiff'08.

> No hits yet from google on Virginia's SACPAS, though it is said to have been built. The LCS itself looks, "( Monitor derived )."
> Mark


At the 2009 memorial I talked with Mike Bosworth about the landing
craft and it has been a years time passed so I forget some of the
details. This was 'big picture' preliminary research for the navy
they were doing. One of the constraints was that the landing craft
needed to be shipped around the world within existing naval freight
ships, and that the maximum dimensions were determined by the the
cargo vessel sizes. To achieve additional length (and hence, hull
speed), I recall they were considering folding the boat like with
Folding Schooner, Insolent60 or PerfectSkiff'08.
Indeed They were called  Eureka by Higgins in the '30s.  They also provided the hull form for the LCVPsee here.  btw I note from this site that my memory as to power was incorrect.  They had 225 hp Gray diesels.

On 10/22/2010 5:38 PM, Paul Esterle wrote:
Dad called 'em "Higgins boats". He landed at Port lauatey in North 
Africa in one of them...


Paul Esterle
Freelance Boating Writer
"Capt'n Pauley's Place"
The Virtual Boatyardwww.thevirtualboatyard.comOn 10/22/2010 5:33 PM, Christopher C. Wetherill wrote:
It was pretty cool. Had the standard "Screamin' Jimmy" DDA 6-71.
Couldn't ski tho.

On 10/22/2010 5:30 PM, Mark Albanese wrote:
I'd have one of those myself!

On Oct 22, 2010, at 12:38 PM, Christopher C. Wetherill wrote:
How about This: LCPL<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LCPL>The summer
camp I went to at the age of 12 had one of these.
------------------------------------

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Dad called 'em "Higgins boats". He landed at Port lauatey in North
Africa in one of them...


Paul Esterle
Freelance Boating Writer
"Capt'n Pauley's Place"
The Virtual Boatyard
www.thevirtualboatyard.com

On 10/22/2010 5:33 PM, Christopher C. Wetherill wrote:
>
>
> It was pretty cool. Had the standard "Screamin' Jimmy" DDA 6-71.
> Couldn't ski tho.
>
> On 10/22/2010 5:30 PM, Mark Albanese wrote:
>
>> I'd have one of those myself!
>>
>> On Oct 22, 2010, at 12:38 PM, Christopher C. Wetherill wrote:
>>
>>> How about This: LCPL <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LCPL> The summer
>>> camp I went to at the age of 12 had one of these.
>>>
>>
>
It was pretty cool.  Had the standard "Screamin'
      Jimmy"DDA 6-71.  Couldn't ski tho.

On 10/22/2010 5:30 PM, Mark Albanese wrote:
I'd have one of those myself!

On Oct 22, 2010, at 12:38 PM, Christopher C. Wetherill
            wrote:

 
How about This:LCPL 
                  The summer camp I went to at the age of 12 had one of
                  these.

I'd have one of those myself!

On Oct 22, 2010, at 12:38 PM, Christopher C. Wetherill wrote:

 
How about This:LCPL  The summer      camp I went to at the age of 12 had one of these.

Bruce,

I wasn't particularly hoping to convince you of that, just noting some correspondence in point of view: Highly focussed on the requirements; unique conception, but with an eye to tradition; economical, versatile to beat all. Bow on, that trimaran just about out Bolgers Bolger.

Something smaller, container sized, seems more appropriate. Yet the letter shows the PB&F projects were partly to, "Encourage fresh viewpoints and innovation from our more typical USN designers." The time frame seems about right. Perhaps they did.

No hits yet from google on Virginia's SACPAS, though it is said to have been built. The LCS itself looks, "( Monitor derived )."

Mark  


I might be wrong, but I am not convinced that the Littoral Combat Ship
is the same Navy project worked on by PB&F.  As explained by Mike
Bosworth during the 2009 Bolger memorial, the three PB&F projects were
called 1) "SACPAS - Security Assistance Contingency Producible
Affordable System", 2) prototype work on replacement concepts for the
"LCAC - Landing Craft Air Cushion" and 3) prototype work for the
Global Fleet Station project with an affordable patrol craft.

See this letter:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/hallman/3943182350/in/set-72157622428568580/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hallman/3942404213/in/set-72157622428568580/

How about This:LCPL  The summer
      camp I went to at the age of 12 had one of these.

On 10/22/2010 3:26 PM, Bruce Hallman wrote:
On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 10:58 AM, Fred Schumacher<fredschum@...>wrote:
The Bosworth letter in the link mentions a boat "shippable by standard container." Did PB&F come up with a boat that would fit inside a 20 or 40 foot shipping container?
My speculation is that a boat similar to the "Advanced Fisherman 30"
30ftx7'8" could be fitted inside a shipping container and serve the
purpose of a simple, easily built, patrol boat/fishing boat for third
world ports.  See the MAIB articles May/June 2008.


------------------------------------

Bolger rules!!!
- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!!  Please!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts 
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links

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On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 10:58 AM, Fred Schumacher <fredschum@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> The Bosworth letter in the link mentions a boat "shippable by standard container." Did PB&F come up with a boat that would fit inside a 20 or 40 foot shipping container?

My speculation is that a boat similar to the "Advanced Fisherman 30"
30ftx7'8" could be fitted inside a shipping container and serve the
purpose of a simple, easily built, patrol boat/fishing boat for third
world ports.  See the MAIB articles May/June 2008.
There's are at least a couple of containerable yachts on the market... they tend to either waste some of the space (http://www.radicalyachts.com/) or look an awful lot like a Bolger box (http://www.containeryachts.com/). A containerable patrol boat, something like the river boats of the Vietnam era, seems pretty natural.

-p

On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 10:58 AM, Fred Schumacher<fredschum@...>wrote:


The Bosworth letter in the link mentions a boat "shippable by standard container." Did PB&F come up with a boat that would fit inside a 20 or 40 foot shipping container? It's maximum dimensions would have to be under 7.5'x7.5'x19.5' (or 39.5'). The most comfortable way to cross an ocean is to ship the boat in a container and meet it on the other side. Container shipping costs are comparatively low.

fred s.


On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 12:34 PM, Bruce Hallman<hallman@...>wrote:



I might be wrong, but I am not convinced that the Littoral Combat Ship
is the same Navy project worked on by PB&F.  As explained by Mike
Bosworth during the 2009 Bolger memorial, the three PB&F projects were
called 1) "SACPAS - Security Assistance Contingency Producible
Affordable System", 2) prototype work on replacement concepts for the
"LCAC - Landing Craft Air Cushion" and 3) prototype work for the
Global Fleet Station project with an affordable patrol craft.

See this letter:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/hallman/3943182350/in/set-72157622428568580/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hallman/3942404213/in/set-72157622428568580/




Certainly couldn't replace an LCAC with something
      that fits in a container.  Perhaps something on the order
    of a big RIB?

On 10/22/2010 1:58 PM, Fred Schumacher wrote:
The Bosworth letter in the link mentions a boat "shippable by
      standard container." Did PB&F come up with a boat that would
      fit inside a 20 or 40 foot shipping container? It's maximum
      dimensions would have to be under 7.5'x7.5'x19.5' (or 39.5'). The
      most comfortable way to cross an ocean is to ship the boat in a
      container and meet it on the other side. Container shipping costs
      are comparatively low.

fred s.

On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 12:34 PM, Bruce
        Hallman<hallman@...>wrote:



I might be wrong, but I am not convinced that the
                  Littoral Combat Ship
is the same Navy project worked on by PB&F. As
                  explained by Mike
Bosworth during the 2009 Bolger memorial, the three
                  PB&F projects were
called 1) "SACPAS - Security Assistance Contingency
                  Producible
Affordable System", 2) prototype work on replacement
                  concepts for the
"LCAC - Landing Craft Air Cushion" and 3) prototype
                  work for the
Global Fleet Station project with an affordable patrol
                  craft.

See this letter:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/hallman/3943182350/in/set-72157622428568580/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hallman/3942404213/in/set-72157622428568580/

The Bosworth letter in the link mentions a boat "shippable by standard container." Did PB&F come up with a boat that would fit inside a 20 or 40 foot shipping container? It's maximum dimensions would have to be under 7.5'x7.5'x19.5' (or 39.5'). The most comfortable way to cross an ocean is to ship the boat in a container and meet it on the other side. Container shipping costs are comparatively low.

fred s.

On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 12:34 PM, Bruce Hallman<hallman@...>wrote:



I might be wrong, but I am not convinced that the Littoral Combat Ship
is the same Navy project worked on by PB&F.  As explained by Mike
Bosworth during the 2009 Bolger memorial, the three PB&F projects were
called 1) "SACPAS - Security Assistance Contingency Producible
Affordable System", 2) prototype work on replacement concepts for the
"LCAC - Landing Craft Air Cushion" and 3) prototype work for the
Global Fleet Station project with an affordable patrol craft.

See this letter:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/hallman/3943182350/in/set-72157622428568580/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hallman/3942404213/in/set-72157622428568580/

On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 10:19 PM, Mark Albanese <marka97203@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Reading a recent article on Robert Gates, I was intrigued by mention of this program. Poking around here, there seems a lot that might just as well have spawned from our favorite design team.
>
>http://tinyurl.com/352vp5z


I might be wrong, but I am not convinced that the Littoral Combat Ship
is the same Navy project worked on by PB&F.  As explained by Mike
Bosworth during the 2009 Bolger memorial, the three PB&F projects were
called 1) "SACPAS - Security Assistance Contingency Producible
Affordable System", 2) prototype work on replacement concepts for the
"LCAC - Landing Craft Air Cushion" and 3) prototype work for the
Global Fleet Station project with an affordable patrol craft.

See this letter:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/hallman/3943182350/in/set-72157622428568580/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hallman/3942404213/in/set-72157622428568580/
Reading a recent article on Robert Gates, I was intrigued by mention of this program. Poking around here, there seems a lot that might just as well have spawned from our favorite design team.
June
Bug is not that light. Mine is close to 100 pounds built with 6mm 1088 ply and
CVG fir. It hasn’t been resin coated or glassed except on the chines. My
Puddle Duck is about 60 pounds though. June Bug rows better after increasing
the depth of the skids. The Hawaiian rowing technique of short hard strokes works
well with June Bug. Think of the oar tips describing a rectangle about 3 foot
long with a fast hard pull when immersed. June Bug is too short and light and
shallow to do the fisherman’s alternate.
 
MylesJ
Bruce, that's a
      fascinating design. Can you tell me where you found it and if it's
      possible to get a copy of the study if the plans are not
      available?

Thanks,
Eric
------
On
              10-10-18 1:02 PM, Bruce Hallman wrote:
I am curious if anyone has heard of a
                build of the Bolger design
"Perfect Skiff '08". It actually seems to be a
                remarkable and useful
boat, folding down to a compact shape for transporting,
                and expanding
into a rather efficient looking rowboat, or sailboat.
                Plus the two
hull piece separate into individual functional prams.
                Also, the
possibility of making a center plug extender that would
                lengthen the
boat.

Isometric here:

http://www.hallman.org/bolger/PerfectSkiff08
On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 7:51 PM, stephenlneal <stephenlneal@...> wrote:
> Bruce,
> I wrote to Phil inquiring about a boat like this and he pointed me towards June Bug which is what I wanted but I'd be very interested if The Perfect Skiff has been built. What a great concept!
> Stephen


The 14ft June Bug would be lighter, and easier to cartop.  I am
guessing a lightly constructed June Bug could weigh 60 lbs.

The 15'6" PerfectSkiff'08 would weight more and not cartop carry so
well.  I am guessing 100lbs is the minimum weight.  It would sit
nicely folded up on one of those cheap "Harbor Freight" trailers.
Also, I think that the Perfect Skiff '08 would be a better rowboat.
Bruce,
I wrote to Phil inquiring about a boat like this and he pointed me towards June Bug which is what I wanted but I'd be very interested if The Perfect Skiff has been built.  What a great concept!
Stephen

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <hallman@...> wrote:
>
> I am curious if anyone has heard of a build of the Bolger design
> "Perfect Skiff '08". It actually seems to be a remarkable and useful
> boat, folding down to a compact shape for transporting, and expanding
> into a rather efficient looking rowboat, or sailboat.  Plus the two
> hull piece separate into individual functional prams.  Also, the
> possibility of making a center plug extender that would lengthen the
> boat.
>
>
> Isometric here:
>
>http://www.hallman.org/bolger/PerfectSkiff08
>
Oh my! That would be an interesting dinghy/dinghies to have on a cruising boat big enough to carry them.  Separate dinks to get a little ways to the dock.  Reasonably capable larger boat for day trip exploration.  Perhaps even enough flotation to function as an all weather lifeboat for self rescue.  A really big boat could carry a sixteen foot dinghy and then another small dinghy, but a medium cruiser might just need to store a sixteen foot boat in two piece in two different locations on deck.
Eric


--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <hallman@...> wrote:
>
> I am curious if anyone has heard of a build of the Bolger design
> "Perfect Skiff '08". It actually seems to be a remarkable and useful
> boat, folding down to a compact shape for transporting, and expanding
> into a rather efficient looking rowboat, or sailboat.  Plus the two
> hull piece separate into individual functional prams.  Also, the
> possibility of making a center plug extender that would lengthen the
> boat.
>
>
> Isometric here:
>
>http://www.hallman.org/bolger/PerfectSkiff08
>
I am curious if anyone has heard of a build of the Bolger design
"Perfect Skiff '08". It actually seems to be a remarkable and useful
boat, folding down to a compact shape for transporting, and expanding
into a rather efficient looking rowboat, or sailboat.  Plus the two
hull piece separate into individual functional prams.  Also, the
possibility of making a center plug extender that would lengthen the
boat.


Isometric here:

http://www.hallman.org/bolger/PerfectSkiff08