[bolger] Re: Idaho?
Joe,
Chuck Leinweber (on this list) has built Tennessee, and may jump in and
answer some of your questions... (help, Chuck!).
I only know Tennessee has a bit of rocker toward the stern, and is
advertised for low-hp (9.9 typically) engines. This makes her pretty much a
displacement boat with some extra speed potential for being light and
narrow. That's 7 knots plus the light/narrow factor, I would guess 8.5-9.0
knots (9.8 - 10.4 mph).
I have built a few small boats (and bought or studied more than I will
admit!), and a real planing hull is almost flat to even a bit "hooked" at
the stern in order to keep them more level and minimize the bow-up plowing
that precedes rising to plane. Big power boats use hydraulic trim plates to
hook the bottom going up to plane, then trim toward flat for cruising on
plane. For a simple boat like Tennessee, flat is probably close enough to
give her some planing potential if enough power is installed. Rule of thumb
here is one hp per 50 to 100 lb weight. If we assumed 75 lb/hp for
Tennessee and 1500 lb, we are at 20 hp just to sustain planing, and probably
35 hp needed to acheive planing initially. Based on Gregg's experience with
the Sneakeasy (which is flat) I'm probably still a bit optimistic. BUT, I
have said I would settle for 11-12 knots (12.6 - 13.8 mph) or so with two
aboard if not redlining the engine and just plowing along.
So, I'll just leave the question out here: has anyone clocked a Tennessee
with 25 hp installed, "stock" or with a flat bottom?
Don Hodges
Lynn Haven, FL
http://www.ecoastlife.com
Chuck Leinweber (on this list) has built Tennessee, and may jump in and
answer some of your questions... (help, Chuck!).
I only know Tennessee has a bit of rocker toward the stern, and is
advertised for low-hp (9.9 typically) engines. This makes her pretty much a
displacement boat with some extra speed potential for being light and
narrow. That's 7 knots plus the light/narrow factor, I would guess 8.5-9.0
knots (9.8 - 10.4 mph).
I have built a few small boats (and bought or studied more than I will
admit!), and a real planing hull is almost flat to even a bit "hooked" at
the stern in order to keep them more level and minimize the bow-up plowing
that precedes rising to plane. Big power boats use hydraulic trim plates to
hook the bottom going up to plane, then trim toward flat for cruising on
plane. For a simple boat like Tennessee, flat is probably close enough to
give her some planing potential if enough power is installed. Rule of thumb
here is one hp per 50 to 100 lb weight. If we assumed 75 lb/hp for
Tennessee and 1500 lb, we are at 20 hp just to sustain planing, and probably
35 hp needed to acheive planing initially. Based on Gregg's experience with
the Sneakeasy (which is flat) I'm probably still a bit optimistic. BUT, I
have said I would settle for 11-12 knots (12.6 - 13.8 mph) or so with two
aboard if not redlining the engine and just plowing along.
So, I'll just leave the question out here: has anyone clocked a Tennessee
with 25 hp installed, "stock" or with a flat bottom?
Don Hodges
Lynn Haven, FL
http://www.ecoastlife.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <bradford@...>
To: <bolger@...>
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 1999 11:08 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Idaho?
> Thanks, Don, you ended my search! I also discvered that the beam of
> Idaho is only 63". Limits your interior options, not to mention the
> aesthetics.
>
> I notice Tennessee carries 72" of beam. What kind power/speed
> properties are expected as she's drawn? What's your goal in the bottom
> mod?
>
> Joe Bradford
> Henderson, KY
>
>
> <007e01bedd25$3b504f80$cbb14d0-@default> wrote:
> original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=70
> > I'm not sure whats going on with the "Common Sense" outfit, but last
> time I
> > looked, there was some Idaho material at www.common-sense-boats.com .
> > www.common-sense-designs.com is closed.
> >
> > Don Hodges
> > Lynn Haven, FL
> >
> > (BTW, Gregg, I'm taking another look at Tennesee as a project - do
> you know
> > if the side planks are 3/8? I'm looking into MDO and it doesn't come
> any
> > thinner than 3/8 inch. Also, any thoughts on taking out the rocker
> aft and
> > going to about 25 hp for Tennessee for maybe 15-18 mph?)
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Joe Bradford <bradford@...>
> > To: <bolger@...>
> > Sent: Saturday, July 31, 1999 4:06 PM
> > Subject: [bolger] Idaho?
> >
> >
> > > I am trying to ind the plans, or the colection of plans that
> include, P.
> > > Bolger's "Idaho" design. Can anyone out there help me?
> > >
> > >
>
>
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Thanks, Don, you ended my search! I also discvered that the beam of
Idaho is only 63". Limits your interior options, not to mention the
aesthetics.
I notice Tennessee carries 72" of beam. What kind power/speed
properties are expected as she's drawn? What's your goal in the bottom
mod?
Joe Bradford
Henderson, KY
<007e01bedd25$3b504f80$cbb14d0-@default> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=70
Idaho is only 63". Limits your interior options, not to mention the
aesthetics.
I notice Tennessee carries 72" of beam. What kind power/speed
properties are expected as she's drawn? What's your goal in the bottom
mod?
Joe Bradford
Henderson, KY
<007e01bedd25$3b504f80$cbb14d0-@default> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=70
> I'm not sure whats going on with the "Common Sense" outfit, but lasttime I
> looked, there was some Idaho material at www.common-sense-boats.com .you know
> www.common-sense-designs.com is closed.
>
> Don Hodges
> Lynn Haven, FL
>
> (BTW, Gregg, I'm taking another look at Tennesee as a project - do
> if the side planks are 3/8? I'm looking into MDO and it doesn't comeany
> thinner than 3/8 inch. Also, any thoughts on taking out the rockeraft and
> going to about 25 hp for Tennessee for maybe 15-18 mph?)include, P.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Joe Bradford <bradford@...>
> To: <bolger@...>
> Sent: Saturday, July 31, 1999 4:06 PM
> Subject: [bolger] Idaho?
>
>
> > I am trying to ind the plans, or the colection of plans that
> > Bolger's "Idaho" design. Can anyone out there help me?
> >
> >
You are probably right, but it seems it ought to make some difference...?
At 10:40 AM 8/3/99 -0500, you wrote:
At 10:40 AM 8/3/99 -0500, you wrote:
>I'm certainly no expert, but I would guess wetted surface area is far more
>influential than finish, if finish is within reason. We are talking
>turbulent flow here - when I raced (much slower) sailboats, we were careful
>about the bottom finish and it made maybe 1/8 - 1/4 knot difference - quite
>a bit at 3-4 knots over 10 -12 miles, but not much if you are already going
>15-16 knots (and not racing).
>
>Don Hodges
>Lynn Haven, FL
>http://www.ecoastlife.com
>
>.
>----- Original Message -----
>From: GHC <ghartc@...>
>To: <bolger@egroups.com>
>Sent: Monday, August 02, 1999 4:27 PM
>Subject: [bolger] Re: Idaho?
>
>
>> Don,
>>
>> I don't know, but I would have to guess that Tennessee is at LEAST 3/8",
>> since the Sneakeasy is.
>>
>> I think the rocker aft for planing should be less than 2 degrees,
>according
>> to Dave Gerr. On something as long as the Tennessee, even less might be
>> better.
>>
>> But, I get only about 20 mph on 25 hp on the Sneakeasy and thought about
>> this last weekend. I think it's all skin friction - if you put any weight
>> at all up forward, it will slow down. I think it drops the bow and puts
>> more "skin" in the water. The bottom itself is not really very smooth and
>> slick - I really need to turn it over, and fair and paint with something
>> hard and slick like epoxy.
>>
>> Point is, on these boats, I think a good bottom is important.
>>
>> Gregg
>>
>>
>> At 03:23 PM 8/2/99 -0500, you wrote:
>> >I'm not sure whats going on with the "Common Sense" outfit, but last time
>I
>> >looked, there was some Idaho material at www.common-sense-boats.com .
>> >www.common-sense-designs.com is closed.
>> >
>> >Don Hodges
>> >Lynn Haven, FL
>> >
>> >(BTW, Gregg, I'm taking another look at Tennesee as a project - do you
>know
>> >if the side planks are 3/8? I'm looking into MDO and it doesn't come any
>> >thinner than 3/8 inch. Also, any thoughts on taking out the rocker aft
>and
>> >going to about 25 hp for Tennessee for maybe 15-18 mph?)
>> >
>> >----- Original Message -----
>> >From: Joe Bradford <bradford@...>
>> >To: <bolger@...>
>> >Sent: Saturday, July 31, 1999 4:06 PM
>> >Subject: [bolger] Idaho?
>> >
>> >
>> >> I am trying to ind the plans, or the colection of plans that include,
>P.
>> >> Bolger's "Idaho" design. Can anyone out there help me?
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> NO annual fee & rates as low as 9.9% FIXED APR. Apply online today!
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>>
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>>http://www.egroups.com- Simplifying group communications
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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>
I'm certainly no expert, but I would guess wetted surface area is far more
influential than finish, if finish is within reason. We are talking
turbulent flow here - when I raced (much slower) sailboats, we were careful
about the bottom finish and it made maybe 1/8 - 1/4 knot difference - quite
a bit at 3-4 knots over 10 -12 miles, but not much if you are already going
15-16 knots (and not racing).
Don Hodges
Lynn Haven, FL
http://www.ecoastlife.com
.
influential than finish, if finish is within reason. We are talking
turbulent flow here - when I raced (much slower) sailboats, we were careful
about the bottom finish and it made maybe 1/8 - 1/4 knot difference - quite
a bit at 3-4 knots over 10 -12 miles, but not much if you are already going
15-16 knots (and not racing).
Don Hodges
Lynn Haven, FL
http://www.ecoastlife.com
.
----- Original Message -----
From: GHC <ghartc@...>
To: <bolger@egroups.com>
Sent: Monday, August 02, 1999 4:27 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Idaho?
> Don,
>
> I don't know, but I would have to guess that Tennessee is at LEAST 3/8",
> since the Sneakeasy is.
>
> I think the rocker aft for planing should be less than 2 degrees,
according
> to Dave Gerr. On something as long as the Tennessee, even less might be
> better.
>
> But, I get only about 20 mph on 25 hp on the Sneakeasy and thought about
> this last weekend. I think it's all skin friction - if you put any weight
> at all up forward, it will slow down. I think it drops the bow and puts
> more "skin" in the water. The bottom itself is not really very smooth and
> slick - I really need to turn it over, and fair and paint with something
> hard and slick like epoxy.
>
> Point is, on these boats, I think a good bottom is important.
>
> Gregg
>
>
> At 03:23 PM 8/2/99 -0500, you wrote:
> >I'm not sure whats going on with the "Common Sense" outfit, but last time
I
> >looked, there was some Idaho material at www.common-sense-boats.com .
> >www.common-sense-designs.com is closed.
> >
> >Don Hodges
> >Lynn Haven, FL
> >
> >(BTW, Gregg, I'm taking another look at Tennesee as a project - do you
know
> >if the side planks are 3/8? I'm looking into MDO and it doesn't come any
> >thinner than 3/8 inch. Also, any thoughts on taking out the rocker aft
and
> >going to about 25 hp for Tennessee for maybe 15-18 mph?)
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: Joe Bradford <bradford@...>
> >To: <bolger@...>
> >Sent: Saturday, July 31, 1999 4:06 PM
> >Subject: [bolger] Idaho?
> >
> >
> >> I am trying to ind the plans, or the colection of plans that include,
P.
> >> Bolger's "Idaho" design. Can anyone out there help me?
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> GET WHAT YOU DESERVE! A NextCard Platinum VISA: DOUBLE Rewards points,
> NO annual fee & rates as low as 9.9% FIXED APR. Apply online today!
>http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/606
>
>
> eGroups.com home:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger
>http://www.egroups.com- Simplifying group communications
>
>
>
>
Don,
I don't know, but I would have to guess that Tennessee is at LEAST 3/8",
since the Sneakeasy is.
I think the rocker aft for planing should be less than 2 degrees, according
to Dave Gerr. On something as long as the Tennessee, even less might be
better.
But, I get only about 20 mph on 25 hp on the Sneakeasy and thought about
this last weekend. I think it's all skin friction - if you put any weight
at all up forward, it will slow down. I think it drops the bow and puts
more "skin" in the water. The bottom itself is not really very smooth and
slick - I really need to turn it over, and fair and paint with something
hard and slick like epoxy.
Point is, on these boats, I think a good bottom is important.
Gregg
At 03:23 PM 8/2/99 -0500, you wrote:
I don't know, but I would have to guess that Tennessee is at LEAST 3/8",
since the Sneakeasy is.
I think the rocker aft for planing should be less than 2 degrees, according
to Dave Gerr. On something as long as the Tennessee, even less might be
better.
But, I get only about 20 mph on 25 hp on the Sneakeasy and thought about
this last weekend. I think it's all skin friction - if you put any weight
at all up forward, it will slow down. I think it drops the bow and puts
more "skin" in the water. The bottom itself is not really very smooth and
slick - I really need to turn it over, and fair and paint with something
hard and slick like epoxy.
Point is, on these boats, I think a good bottom is important.
Gregg
At 03:23 PM 8/2/99 -0500, you wrote:
>I'm not sure whats going on with the "Common Sense" outfit, but last time I
>looked, there was some Idaho material at www.common-sense-boats.com .
>www.common-sense-designs.com is closed.
>
>Don Hodges
>Lynn Haven, FL
>
>(BTW, Gregg, I'm taking another look at Tennesee as a project - do you know
>if the side planks are 3/8? I'm looking into MDO and it doesn't come any
>thinner than 3/8 inch. Also, any thoughts on taking out the rocker aft and
>going to about 25 hp for Tennessee for maybe 15-18 mph?)
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Joe Bradford <bradford@...>
>To: <bolger@...>
>Sent: Saturday, July 31, 1999 4:06 PM
>Subject: [bolger] Idaho?
>
>
>> I am trying to ind the plans, or the colection of plans that include, P.
>> Bolger's "Idaho" design. Can anyone out there help me?
I'm not sure whats going on with the "Common Sense" outfit, but last time I
looked, there was some Idaho material at www.common-sense-boats.com .
www.common-sense-designs.com is closed.
Don Hodges
Lynn Haven, FL
(BTW, Gregg, I'm taking another look at Tennesee as a project - do you know
if the side planks are 3/8? I'm looking into MDO and it doesn't come any
thinner than 3/8 inch. Also, any thoughts on taking out the rocker aft and
going to about 25 hp for Tennessee for maybe 15-18 mph?)
looked, there was some Idaho material at www.common-sense-boats.com .
www.common-sense-designs.com is closed.
Don Hodges
Lynn Haven, FL
(BTW, Gregg, I'm taking another look at Tennesee as a project - do you know
if the side planks are 3/8? I'm looking into MDO and it doesn't come any
thinner than 3/8 inch. Also, any thoughts on taking out the rocker aft and
going to about 25 hp for Tennessee for maybe 15-18 mph?)
----- Original Message -----
From: Joe Bradford <bradford@...>
To: <bolger@...>
Sent: Saturday, July 31, 1999 4:06 PM
Subject: [bolger] Idaho?
> I am trying to ind the plans, or the colection of plans that include, P.
> Bolger's "Idaho" design. Can anyone out there help me?
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
>
There's a link on my sitehttp://www.carlsondesign.com/lscooner.htmlhas a
link to Dynamite Payson as a starting point. Also, try the link to the
other Light Scooner page for a lot of Bolger links.
Gregg Carlson
At 04:06 PM 7/31/99 -0500, you wrote:
link to Dynamite Payson as a starting point. Also, try the link to the
other Light Scooner page for a lot of Bolger links.
Gregg Carlson
At 04:06 PM 7/31/99 -0500, you wrote:
>I am trying to ind the plans, or the colection of plans that include, P.
>Bolger's "Idaho" design. Can anyone out there help me?
>
>
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>http://www.egroups.com- Simplifying group communications
>
>
>
>
>
I am trying to ind the plans, or the colection of plans that include, P.
Bolger's "Idaho" design. Can anyone out there help me?
Bolger's "Idaho" design. Can anyone out there help me?