Re: [bolger] Re: Dovekie and others

."It's the tides, man.  They can either work for you or they can work against you...

Confidentially, I've had this problem with the tides before."

--Captain Ron

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "etap28" <dave.irland@...> wrote:

>
> I need to break out my Bolger books and see if there's any raised
> helmsman seating, seems like it would be eminently uncomfortable
> to sit on the floor for long periods.

There's cockpit seating in the Plywood Dovekie.

--- Well, mitigation dams now near 200% plus. Unheard of 2 - 3m "instant inland tsunamis" propagated with devastating effect through built up areas by a single cloud overhead. Saw that kind of 450mm/hr plus cloudburst to the north, but on wild jungle mountain tops. If it keeps on raining... proactive city power distribution shutdowns commencing... new meaning to modern 'the river city' with king tides plus ocean storm surge Thursday... shipping tug standing off large river$ide restaraunt building now, etc... long ago to the north in the Johnstone they fitted anchors to the Garradunga Pub which made no difference to the crocs in the fridge which made no bad difference to trade. Truly marvellous folk song sung in serious rain. Checking the food supply, and rum, releasing Micro trailer tie downs in the garage. Hmmm... an Ararat here unfortunately is up one raging catchment tributary... rum maybe exhausted the other way by New Caledonia landfall though... checks rum again... Yep, confirms how lucky to have Micro for a rum circumstance.

If you're interested in boats of this type, you should look at the
Sea Pearl 21. They're built in Florida, but a number have made their
way to the Northeast, including the Great Lakes. Easy to sail, easy
to row, easy to launch/retrieve/tow. The "cabin" area isn't as roomy
as the Dovekie, but it's more versatile, and it does have a raised
floor for dry sleeping.

I owned one for about 4 years and had a lot of fun with it. There
are some stories and pictures at:

http://TheMagicM.com/kent/sailing/

There's also a Yahoo group, which is quite active, and might give you
a lead on a used boat:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/seapearl/

> > I'm thinking about a trailerable Lake Champlain camp-cruising
> boat for next summer, mostly because they're giving the stuff away
> on C-list. I've always liked O'day Dayailers (Uffa Fox) and O'day
> Mariners (Rhodes)(both under 1K, with trailers), but the Dovekie's
> been on the top of my list for ages (though much more $$). Anybody
> here ever used or seen one up close? I need to break out my Bolger
> books and see if there's any raised helmsman seating, seems like it
> would be eminently uncomfortable to sit on the floor for long
> periods. But any anecdotes or first hand accounts would be
> appreciated. They're beautifully built and I know they sail OK for
> a flat bottom, unballasted catboat, but are they any fun to sail?
> And is the rowing concept worth all the design compromises? (most
> people put outboards on them, which seems to defeat the purppose).
> And is the "back porch" a pain to set up? is the interior useable
> or is the floor usually damp (no floorboards, right)?

I have a Dovekie and they are very good value. Mine was in Florida and I ended up trailering it behind my car to Oregon. Turns out the Dovekie and trailer combination is very light, something like 900 pound, maybe less. I carried all our stuff in it and got close to 20 MPG.

Oh, you probably want to know how they sail? In a word, quirky, it is an eccentric boat. I think of it as an "old" man's dinghy, very comfortable, relaxed, with a nice safe feel. Doesn't sail too fast upwind because of all the drag from the foils and ancient rig but goes like stink downwind when you raise the boards. Since the bottom is totally flat, you don't get the steering crispness of a boat like a Daysailer or a keelboat. I would recommend a Dovekie for tidal estuaries and rivers, areas where her shoal draft is needed.

I've thought a Dovekie would be an interesting boat to sail through the canals and rivers of Europe. On the rivers you can sail up to a bridge and lower the sail in a heartbeat, row and scull through the canals and never really need an engine. There is enough room for two people and all the gear necessary. So, sail Lake Champlain only?, maybe not a Dovekie, but if you extend your voyage to some rivers, canals and estuaries, then yes, check one out for sure.

Rich

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "etap28" <dave.irland@...> wrote:
>
> I'm thinking about a trailerable Lake Champlain camp-cruising boat for next summer, mostly because they're giving the stuff away on C-list. I've always liked O'day Dayailers (Uffa Fox) and O'day Mariners (Rhodes)(both under 1K, with trailers), but the Dovekie's been on the top of my list for ages (though much more $$). Anybody here ever used or seen one up close? I need to break out my Bolger books and see if there's any raised helmsman seating, seems like it would be eminently uncomfortable to sit on the floor for long periods. But any anecdotes or first hand accounts would be appreciated. They're beautifully built and I know they sail OK for a flat bottom, unballasted catboat, but are they any fun to sail? And is the rowing concept worth all the design compromises? (most people put outboards on them, which seems to defeat the purppose). And is the "back porch" a pain to set up? is the interior useable or is the floor usually damp (no floorboards, right)?
>

Thanks, very informative. I think one of the main benefits of the boat would also turn out to be the de-mountable rig, for going under bridges, which is an attribute that just occurred to me.

But, the used plastic boat market is about bottomed out, and as I noticed, you can get a Mariner, which is a darn good boat, for almost nothing. For less than the price of a trailer. Who'd a thunk it. Or any other glass daysailer for that matter. Hard to even justify building anything, these days, unless it's just to experiment

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John and Kathy Trussell" <jtrussell2@...> wrote:
>
> I had a Dovekie for a couple of years. It had comfortable seating for two
> people and no good place for anyone else. It could be rowed (against a stiff
> breeze if necessary) but it was a lot easier to crank up the motor. Moving
> around the boat involved a lot of ducking (under the "roll bar" and under
> the deck/cabin top). Mine was a later model with the f/g leeboards and a bow
> centerboard. I found that the ergonomics of the crank on the lee boards
> didn't work for me as the effort to lower the buoyant leeboards or to raise
> them once they were flooded was excessive. I also found that mine developed
> a lee helm when reefed. Having said all that, the seating for the helmsman
> was very comfortable and for sailing in winds of 5-10 mph the boat worked
> very well. A couple who was used to back packing would find the
> accommodations on the comfortable side of adequate and the ability to carry
> an ice chest full of food and several changes of clothes is also a luxury.
> The raison d'etre for a Dovekies is the ability to sail in very shallow
> water, and ground out more or less level at low tide. The shortcomings
> listed above are the compromises necessary to get this unique capability.
>
>
>
> Fiberglass boats seem to last forever and so there are a lot of older boats
> available at very low prices. Some boats develop a cult following (Dovekies,
> Marsh/Bay/Peep Hens, Seapearls, and, of all things, Drascombs) which keep
> their prices higher. However, there are an awful lot of good, cheap boats on
> the market. Look around and pick whichever one you like.
>
>
>
> JohnT
>
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> michael
> Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 12:39 AM
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [bolger] Re: Dovekie and others
>
>
>
>
>
> Dave:
>
> I had a Dovkie in the 1000 islands for a year or two in the early 90s as a
> part exchange on a Shearwater that I sold. She was undercanvassed because of
> the lack of both ballast and serious hiking capability; and so not very
> exciting to sail in less than 8-10 knots of breeze, and not quick. Good room
> aboard and the back porch works well for camping but much crouching esp. if
> tall. You will need to have good knees. I don't recall how or where I sat
> while steering but it was not on the floor. Rowing was reasonably effective.
> A modern trolling motor might be the answer. A 2 hp outboard on a side mount
> produced hull speed of 5+ knots at half throttle. Dampness was not an issue
> and floorboards would be easy to make in any case. Trailering, rigging and
> launching 600 lbs. was so simple and quick compared to traditional 20
> footers. Also pretty bulletproof if very basic. Their major advantage was to
> be able to sail on a beam reach if not quite to windward in less than a foot
> of water.
>
> Mike
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com<mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com> , "etap28"
> <dave.irland@> wrote:
> >
> > I'm thinking about a trailerable Lake Champlain camp-cruising boat for
> next summer, mostly because they're giving the stuff away on C-list. I've
> always liked O'day Dayailers (Uffa Fox) and O'day Mariners (Rhodes)(both
> under 1K, with trailers), but the Dovekie's been on the top of my list for
> ages (though much more $$). Anybody here ever used or seen one up close? I
> need to break out my Bolger books and see if there's any raised helmsman
> seating, seems like it would be eminently uncomfortable to sit on the floor
> for long periods. But any anecdotes or first hand accounts would be
> appreciated. They're beautifully built and I know they sail OK for a flat
> bottom, unballasted catboat, but are they any fun to sail? And is the rowing
> concept worth all the design compromises? (most people put outboards on
> them, which seems to defeat the purppose). And is the "back porch" a pain to
> set up? is the interior useable or is the floor usually damp (no
> floorboards, right)?
> >
>

thanks MIke,
That confirms most of my impressions. I think the only way to know if I'd really like one would be to try one for a few days . . . They used to pop up for sale a lot more than they seem to be lately
Dave

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "michael" <barklakemike@...> wrote:
>
> Dave:
>
> I had a Dovkie in the 1000 islands for a year or two in the early 90s as a part exchange on a Shearwater that I sold. She was undercanvassed because of the lack of both ballast and serious hiking capability; and so not very exciting to sail in less than 8-10 knots of breeze, and not quick. Good room aboard and the back porch works well for camping but much crouching esp. if tall. You will need to have good knees. I don't recall how or where I sat while steering but it was not on the floor. Rowing was reasonably effective. A modern trolling motor might be the answer. A 2 hp outboard on a side mount produced hull speed of 5+ knots at half throttle. Dampness was not an issue and floorboards would be easy to make in any case. Trailering, rigging and launching 600 lbs. was so simple and quick compared to traditional 20 footers. Also pretty bulletproof if very basic. Their major advantage was to be able to sail on a beam reach if not quite to windward in less than a foot of water.
>
> Mike
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "etap28" <dave.irland@> wrote:
> >
> > I'm thinking about a trailerable Lake Champlain camp-cruising boat for next summer, mostly because they're giving the stuff away on C-list. I've always liked O'day Dayailers (Uffa Fox) and O'day Mariners (Rhodes)(both under 1K, with trailers), but the Dovekie's been on the top of my list for ages (though much more $$). Anybody here ever used or seen one up close? I need to break out my Bolger books and see if there's any raised helmsman seating, seems like it would be eminently uncomfortable to sit on the floor for long periods. But any anecdotes or first hand accounts would be appreciated. They're beautifully built and I know they sail OK for a flat bottom, unballasted catboat, but are they any fun to sail? And is the rowing concept worth all the design compromises? (most people put outboards on them, which seems to defeat the purppose). And is the "back porch" a pain to set up? is the interior useable or is the floor usually damp (no floorboards, right)?
> >
>

Dave:

I had a Dovkie in the 1000 islands for a year or two in the early 90s as a part exchange on a Shearwater that I sold. She was undercanvassed because of the lack of both ballast and serious hiking capability; and so not very exciting to sail in less than 8-10 knots of breeze, and not quick. Good room aboard and the back porch works well for camping but much crouching esp. if tall. You will need to have good knees. I don't recall how or where I sat while steering but it was not on the floor. Rowing was reasonably effective. A modern trolling motor might be the answer. A 2 hp outboard on a side mount produced hull speed of 5+ knots at half throttle. Dampness was not an issue and floorboards would be easy to make in any case. Trailering, rigging and launching 600 lbs. was so simple and quick compared to traditional 20 footers. Also pretty bulletproof if very basic. Their major advantage was to be able to sail on a beam reach if not quite to windward in less than a foot of water.

Mike

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "etap28" <dave.irland@...> wrote:
>
> I'm thinking about a trailerable Lake Champlain camp-cruising boat for next summer, mostly because they're giving the stuff away on C-list. I've always liked O'day Dayailers (Uffa Fox) and O'day Mariners (Rhodes)(both under 1K, with trailers), but the Dovekie's been on the top of my list for ages (though much more $$). Anybody here ever used or seen one up close? I need to break out my Bolger books and see if there's any raised helmsman seating, seems like it would be eminently uncomfortable to sit on the floor for long periods. But any anecdotes or first hand accounts would be appreciated. They're beautifully built and I know they sail OK for a flat bottom, unballasted catboat, but are they any fun to sail? And is the rowing concept worth all the design compromises? (most people put outboards on them, which seems to defeat the purppose). And is the "back porch" a pain to set up? is the interior useable or is the floor usually damp (no floorboards, right)?
>

I'm thinking about a trailerable Lake Champlain camp-cruising boat for next summer, mostly because they're giving the stuff away on C-list. I've always liked O'day Dayailers (Uffa Fox) and O'day Mariners (Rhodes)(both under 1K, with trailers), but the Dovekie's been on the top of my list for ages (though much more $$). Anybody here ever used or seen one up close? I need to break out my Bolger books and see if there's any raised helmsman seating, seems like it would be eminently uncomfortable to sit on the floor for long periods. But any anecdotes or first hand accounts would be appreciated. They're beautifully built and I know they sail OK for a flat bottom, unballasted catboat, but are they any fun to sail? And is the rowing concept worth all the design compromises? (most people put outboards on them, which seems to defeat the purppose). And is the "back porch" a pain to set up? is the interior useable or is the floor usually damp (no floorboards, right)?