Re: Bolgers most recent, Advanced Sharpie AS-34 isometric

I have been thinking almost the same thing lately: JB upside-down on one side of an AS-32 deck been flush with th esame deck. The side of the recess would be all Lexan: a nice lookout in fair weather that would be protected by JB under way. Main section would be asimmetric and JB blocking should be well thought thru.
Another idea is: why not putting a BW top on a big boat cockpit? Does anybody know of any design like this?
Ste

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Fred Schumacher <fredschum@...> wrote:
>
> On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 9:35 PM, c.ruzer <c.ruzer@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I'd thought perhaps a standard Brick with some lifeboaty inclusions, but
> > maybe something like a Surf or June Bug that could be reasonably rowed some
> > distance as well as sailed quite acceptably. The JB might be better to
> > modify? Something that might hold a hundred pounds of food and two-hundred
> > of water and such necessities?
> >
> >
> A few months ago I sketched out a 60% scale-up of Old Shoe to see how it
> would work as a live-in cruiser and discovered that the side curve of Old
> Shoe almost perfectly matched up with that of June Bug. So I sketched in a
> recess in the deck for June Bug to be stored, and it fit, without
> interfering too much with the cabin. It was interesting to see the same
> concept used in AS34. A ship's boat in a storage recess is an idea which
> should be explored more.
>
> fred s.
>

On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 9:35 PM, c.ruzer<c.ruzer@...>wrote:

I'd thought perhaps a standard Brick with some lifeboaty inclusions, but maybe something like a Surf or June Bug that could be reasonably rowed some distance as well as sailed quite acceptably. The JB might be better to modify? Something that might hold a hundred pounds of food and two-hundred of water and such necessities?
A few months ago I sketched out a 60% scale-up of Old Shoe to see how it would work as a live-in cruiser and discovered that the side curve of Old Shoe almost perfectly matched up with that of June Bug. So I sketched in a recess in the deck for June Bug to be stored, and it fit, without interfering too much with the cabin. It was interesting to see the same concept used in AS34. A ship's boat in a storage recess is an idea which should be explored more.

fred s.

Harry, you'd hardly know it was there, hey! Thanks. Have you also towed a Gull and noticed how much slower you go then? EP would be a good tender, but has it sufficient lifeboat capability? I'd thought perhaps a standard Brick with some lifeboaty inclusions, but maybe something like a Surf or June Bug that could be reasonably rowed some distance as well as sailed quite acceptably. The JB might be better to modify? Something that might hold a hundred pounds of food and two-hundred of water and such necessities? Something perhaps like a stretched Rubens Nymph with a floor over a ballast tank of fresh water perhaps? I saw something like that on the river used as a tender by a Dutch yacht once. It had a tiny well near midships for a small outboard too. Got right along at near idle, and very stable. That's getting a long way away from the Tortoise/Brick/EP I suppose.

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
>
> I run a 6 hp Tohatsu on a Pearson Triton and tow an Elegant Punt. The EP
> takes .1 to .2 of a knot off my 5kts cruise.
>
> HJ
>

Far out-- attachments work on this list. Pic is the EP

HJ

On 2/28/2011 7:16 PM, Harry James wrote:
> I run a 6 hp Tohatsu on a Pearson Triton and tow an Elegant Punt. The EP
> takes .1 to .2 of a knot off my 5kts cruise.
>
> HJ
>
> On 2/28/2011 1:09 AM, c.ruzer wrote:
>> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "captreed@..."<captreed@...> wrote:
>>> I've towed both behind my Santana 27...
>> Thanks Reed. Maybe a stretched out Tortoise would not drag so much as Brick - a June Bug?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> Bolger rules!!!
>> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
>> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
>> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
>> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
>> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

I run a 6 hp Tohatsu on a Pearson Triton and tow an Elegant Punt. The EP
takes .1 to .2 of a knot off my 5kts cruise.

HJ

On 2/28/2011 1:09 AM, c.ruzer wrote:
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "captreed@..."<captreed@...> wrote:
>> I've towed both behind my Santana 27...
> Thanks Reed. Maybe a stretched out Tortoise would not drag so much as Brick - a June Bug?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

> These photos prompted me to re-read the chapter on the "staysail cat" and "CS-24" in BWAOM.
>

Try this link instead:

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=fofK-rN9YysC&lpg=PP1&pg=PA149#v=onepage&q&f=false

> Andrew
>
>http://sites.google.com/site/warrandytewoodenboat/
>

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Stefano" <gordas@...> wrote:

> You might find it interesting to look at this. <snip> Scroll down to have a look at her rig: all very Bolger-inspired.
>http://www.cantierino.it/AGALLERIA/orsobianco/a.html
>

These photos prompted me to re-read the chapter on the "staysail cat" and "CS-24" in BWAOM.

(Cut and paste the following link to read it, or go to books.google.com, search for "boats with an open mind" and find page 149:)

http://books.google.com/books?id=fofK-rN9YysC&printsec=frontcover&dq=boats+with+an+open+mind&hl=en&ei=IiRsTceLKoukvgPngaHkAg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

Although Bolger takes no credit for the concept his enthusiasm for exploring the benefits of an unconventional rig (Foresail/Genoa only - no "mainsail") is one of the things that attracts us to his designs.

Andrew

http://sites.google.com/site/warrandytewoodenboat/

Internal ballast, 3 tons (over 8.8 tons displacement) of 20kg lead ingots on the bottom of the hull, removable at need (trimming or ungrounding). Yes, it's a daggerboard. The builder claims that she has little leeway even with daggerboard up and raising or lowering any of the three jibs does not affect much the sail center of effort. The reason for the all-staysails-rig is that there is no boom to knock out and off the boat anyone, and for quick sail lowering even in very strong winds (jibheaded mainsails on tracks just won't come down!).

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "etap28" <dave.irland@...> wrote:
>
> that's really cool. I can't tell what's going on with the ballast. What's he using to stay upright? And lateral plane... is there some huge daggerboard? It looks like there's a daggerboard case going down through the cabin
> Like it a lot. Can't read italian, any reports on how it sails?
>
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Stefano" <gordas@> wrote:
> >
> > You might find it interesting to look at this. She has been self designed and built buy a German-Italian experienced builder and sailor. She is the result of a life of sea traveling and is an attempt to build "the safest boat possible". Scroll down to have a look at her rig: all very Bolger-inspired.
> >http://www.cantierino.it/AGALLERIA/orsobianco/a.html
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "TheM" <ccurtis-keyword-crusing.65bae6@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Thanks Bruce for posting the iso's. I had been wondering what she (the AS34) would look like since I heard of her some time ago. In some ways I was initially a bit disappointed as I hoped the old sharpie hull would be retained. Still, she has some very interesting points (and the more I look, the more I like). Can anyone assist me with the front cutwater bit. It looks like it has a step ladder on it. Is it designed to be wide enough for the mainmast to lay down, it does not look like it is to me. I'm not sure of the anchoring setup. The front deck being so wide would be nice, but I'm a bit confused about the front "fin" in front. Why not have the bow start at the end of the hull? Why have the box extended fin (I know, wrong word). Can someone enlighten me as to it's function?
> > >
> > > Chris Curtis
> > >
> > >
> > > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, BruceHallman <hallman@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Bolgers most recent, Advanced Sharpie AS-34
> > > >
> > > > This design is the most recently revealed Bolger design, published
> > > > posthumously, named the Advanced Sharpie AS-34. It is reminiscent of
> > > > several the designs in the last decade, with the cutwater stem (seen
> > > > in the New England Fisheries series), with filleted pieces and
> > > > overhanging deck at the bow. There were a number of variations on the
> > > > AS-3xxx designs on the drawing board, but this one is released and
> > > > plans are for sale from Phil Bolger & Friends. (As written up in the
> > > > magazine Messing About in Boats from last month.) That rig is another
> > > > form of the Bolger "Chinese Gaff", a variant mix of a gaff rig and a
> > > > Chinese lug rig. (The notable variation is that the flexible full
> > > > length battens bear on the masts, and the main gaff is sheeted from
> > > > the top of the mizzen mast which is acting as a sheeting staff.) Both
> > > > the masts are tabernacled, and there are two dinghies nestled on deck.
> > > >
> > > >http://www.hallman.org/bolger/AS34/
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

that's really cool. I can't tell what's going on with the ballast. What's he using to stay upright? And lateral plane... is there some huge daggerboard? It looks like there's a daggerboard case going down through the cabin
Like it a lot. Can't read italian, any reports on how it sails?

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Stefano" <gordas@...> wrote:
>
> You might find it interesting to look at this. She has been self designed and built buy a German-Italian experienced builder and sailor. She is the result of a life of sea traveling and is an attempt to build "the safest boat possible". Scroll down to have a look at her rig: all very Bolger-inspired.
>http://www.cantierino.it/AGALLERIA/orsobianco/a.html
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "TheM" <ccurtis-keyword-crusing.65bae6@> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks Bruce for posting the iso's. I had been wondering what she (the AS34) would look like since I heard of her some time ago. In some ways I was initially a bit disappointed as I hoped the old sharpie hull would be retained. Still, she has some very interesting points (and the more I look, the more I like). Can anyone assist me with the front cutwater bit. It looks like it has a step ladder on it. Is it designed to be wide enough for the mainmast to lay down, it does not look like it is to me. I'm not sure of the anchoring setup. The front deck being so wide would be nice, but I'm a bit confused about the front "fin" in front. Why not have the bow start at the end of the hull? Why have the box extended fin (I know, wrong word). Can someone enlighten me as to it's function?
> >
> > Chris Curtis
> >
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, BruceHallman <hallman@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Bolgers most recent, Advanced Sharpie AS-34
> > >
> > > This design is the most recently revealed Bolger design, published
> > > posthumously, named the Advanced Sharpie AS-34. It is reminiscent of
> > > several the designs in the last decade, with the cutwater stem (seen
> > > in the New England Fisheries series), with filleted pieces and
> > > overhanging deck at the bow. There were a number of variations on the
> > > AS-3xxx designs on the drawing board, but this one is released and
> > > plans are for sale from Phil Bolger & Friends. (As written up in the
> > > magazine Messing About in Boats from last month.) That rig is another
> > > form of the Bolger "Chinese Gaff", a variant mix of a gaff rig and a
> > > Chinese lug rig. (The notable variation is that the flexible full
> > > length battens bear on the masts, and the main gaff is sheeted from
> > > the top of the mizzen mast which is acting as a sheeting staff.) Both
> > > the masts are tabernacled, and there are two dinghies nestled on deck.
> > >
> > >http://www.hallman.org/bolger/AS34/
> > >
> >
>

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "captreed@..." <captreed@...> wrote:

>
> I've towed both behind my Santana 27...

Thanks Reed. Maybe a stretched out Tortoise would not drag so much as Brick - a June Bug?

Pretty nifty!

If you could kick the person in the pants responsible for most of your trouble, you wouldn't sit for a month.
Theodore Roosevelt

From:Stefano <gordas@...>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent:Sun, February 27, 2011 8:05:59 AM
Subject:[bolger] Re: Bolgers most recent, Advanced Sharpie AS-34 isometric

You might find it interesting to look at this. She has been self designed and built buy a German-Italian experienced builder and sailor. She is the result of a life of sea traveling and is an attempt to build "the safest boat possible". Scroll down to have a look at her rig: all very Bolger-inspired.
http://www.cantierino.it/AGALLERIA/orsobianco/a.html

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "TheM" <ccurtis-keyword-crusing.65bae6@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks Bruce for posting the iso's. I had been wondering what she (the AS34) would look like since I heard of her some time ago. In some ways I was initially a bit disappointed as I hoped the old sharpie hull would be retained. Still, she has some very interesting points (and the more I look, the more I like). Can anyone assist me with the front cutwater bit. It looks like it has a step ladder on it. Is it designed to be wide enough for the mainmast to lay down, it does not look like it is to me. I'm not sure of the anchoring setup. The front deck being so wide would be nice, but I'm a bit confused about the front "fin" in front. Why not have the bow start at the end of the hull? Why have the box extended fin (I know, wrong word). Can someone enlighten me as to it's function?
>
> Chris Curtis
>
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, BruceHallman <hallman@> wrote:
> >
> > Bolgers most recent, Advanced Sharpie AS-34
> >
> > This design is the most recently revealed Bolger design, published
> > posthumously, named the Advanced Sharpie AS-34. It is reminiscent of
> > several the designs in the last decade, with the cutwater stem (seen
> > in the New England Fisheries series), with filleted pieces and
> > overhanging deck at the bow. There were a number of variations on the
> > AS-3xxx designs on the drawing board, but this one is released and
> > plans are for sale from Phil Bolger & Friends. (As written up in the
> > magazine Messing About in Boats from last month.) That rig is another
> > form of the Bolger "Chinese Gaff", a variant mix of a gaff rig and a
> > Chinese lug rig. (The notable variation is that the flexible full
> > length battens bear on the masts, and the main gaff is sheeted from
> > the top of the mizzen mast which is acting as a sheeting staff.) Both
> > the masts are tabernacled, and there are two dinghies nestled on deck.
> >
> >http://www.hallman.org/bolger/AS34/
> >
>

The mainmast is definitely tabernacled. The fin is front, I think if
part of an attempt to make the waterline of the boat as long as
possible (for speed), and the fillet, and deck overhang is to make the
above water portion of the boat to be wide, for comfortable insides.
Yes, those are boarding steps up the stem, a safety feature. I think
the anchors deploy off the forward deck, one on each side. This whole
panel arrangement is very similar to other recent PB&F boats,
especially the Advanced Fisherman series.

On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 4:51 PM, TheM
<ccurtis-keyword-crusing.65bae6@...> wrote:

>
>
>
> Thanks Bruce for posting the iso's. I had been wondering what she (the AS34) would look like since I heard of her some time ago. In some ways I was initially a bit disappointed as I hoped the old sharpie hull would be retained. Still, she has some very interesting points (and the more I look, the more I like). Can anyone assist me with the front cutwater bit. It looks like it has a step ladder on it. Is it designed to be wide enough for the mainmast to lay down, it does not look like it is to me. I'm not sure of the anchoring setup. The front deck being so wide would be nice, but I'm a bit confused about the front "fin" in front. Why not have the bow start at the end of the hull? Why have the box extended fin (I know, wrong word). Can someone enlighten me as to it's function?
>
> Chris Curtis
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, BruceHallman <hallman@...> wrote:
> >
> > Bolgers most recent, Advanced Sharpie AS-34
> >
> > This design is the most recently revealed Bolger design, published
> > posthumously, named the Advanced Sharpie AS-34. It is reminiscent of
> > several the designs in the last decade, with the cutwater stem (seen
> > in the New England Fisheries series), with filleted pieces and
> > overhanging deck at the bow. There were a number of variations on the
> > AS-3xxx designs on the drawing board, but this one is released and
> > plans are for sale from Phil Bolger & Friends. (As written up in the
> > magazine Messing About in Boats from last month.) That rig is another
> > form of the Bolger "Chinese Gaff", a variant mix of a gaff rig and a
> > Chinese lug rig. (The notable variation is that the flexible full
> > length battens bear on the masts, and the main gaff is sheeted from
> > the top of the mizzen mast which is acting as a sheeting staff.) Both
> > the masts are tabernacled, and there are two dinghies nestled on deck.
> >
> >http://www.hallman.org/bolger/AS34/
> >
>
>

Thanks Bruce for posting the iso's. I had been wondering what she (the AS34) would look like since I heard of her some time ago. In some ways I was initially a bit disappointed as I hoped the old sharpie hull would be retained. Still, she has some very interesting points (and the more I look, the more I like). Can anyone assist me with the front cutwater bit. It looks like it has a step ladder on it. Is it designed to be wide enough for the mainmast to lay down, it does not look like it is to me. I'm not sure of the anchoring setup. The front deck being so wide would be nice, but I'm a bit confused about the front "fin" in front. Why not have the bow start at the end of the hull? Why have the box extended fin (I know, wrong word). Can someone enlighten me as to it's function?

Chris Curtis

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, BruceHallman <hallman@...> wrote:
>
> Bolgers most recent, Advanced Sharpie AS-34
>
> This design is the most recently revealed Bolger design, published
> posthumously, named the Advanced Sharpie AS-34. It is reminiscent of
> several the designs in the last decade, with the cutwater stem (seen
> in the New England Fisheries series), with filleted pieces and
> overhanging deck at the bow. There were a number of variations on the
> AS-3xxx designs on the drawing board, but this one is released and
> plans are for sale from Phil Bolger & Friends. (As written up in the
> magazine Messing About in Boats from last month.) That rig is another
> form of the Bolger "Chinese Gaff", a variant mix of a gaff rig and a
> Chinese lug rig. (The notable variation is that the flexible full
> length battens bear on the masts, and the main gaff is sheeted from
> the top of the mizzen mast which is acting as a sheeting staff.) Both
> the masts are tabernacled, and there are two dinghies nestled on deck.
>
>http://www.hallman.org/bolger/AS34/
>

I've towed both behind my Santana 27. Tortoise slows the boat down about 1/3 of a knot. Brick slowed the boat down around 1 knot. They both were pretty stable and shipped a small amount of water. Tortoise managed to flip once and the boat almost stopped. It was a lot of work to get it dry again and proceed with it on deck. Brick wouldn't fit on the foredeck.

Reed

Thank you Bruce,
that is very interesting, I was looking forward to have a look at her. I guess her strength is in the path of Col. Hasler or Fiji designs. Can you load somewhere the freeship file so I can turn her around and have an idea of her measures (beam, draft, displacement, sail areas)?
Does anyone have the possibility to make a scan of the full MAIB article? My subscription started on February issue!
Ste
Italy

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, BruceHallman <hallman@...> wrote:
>
> Bolgers most recent, Advanced Sharpie AS-34
>
> This design is the most recently revealed Bolger design, published
> posthumously, named the Advanced Sharpie AS-34. It is reminiscent of
> several the designs in the last decade, with the cutwater stem (seen
> in the New England Fisheries series), with filleted pieces and
> overhanging deck at the bow. There were a number of variations on the
> AS-3xxx designs on the drawing board, but this one is released and
> plans are for sale from Phil Bolger & Friends. (As written up in the
> magazine Messing About in Boats from last month.) That rig is another
> form of the Bolger "Chinese Gaff", a variant mix of a gaff rig and a
> Chinese lug rig. (The notable variation is that the flexible full
> length battens bear on the masts, and the main gaff is sheeted from
> the top of the mizzen mast which is acting as a sheeting staff.) Both
> the masts are tabernacled, and there are two dinghies nestled on deck.
>
>http://www.hallman.org/bolger/AS34/
>

Annie Hill wrote their Tortoise was wonderful and towed impeccably (probably at about 4kts). With a view to all the Tortoise tender virtues plus that of a tender-cum-lifeboat, how does Brick tow?

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Eric" <eric14850@...> wrote:
>
> Small dinghy under larger dinghy? Turtle and ???

Nice.

Annie Hill found junk flexible battens really problematical, breakages etc, and reverted to the original heavy, stiff type. Junk performance has been much improved lately by camber easily got from barrel cut panels. How about stiff battens with barrel cut for the "Chinese Gaff"?

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, BruceHallman <hallman@...> wrote:
>
> Bolgers most recent, Advanced Sharpie AS-34
>
> This design is the most recently revealed Bolger design, published
> posthumously, named the Advanced Sharpie AS-34.

Small dinghy under larger dinghy? Turtle and ??? Double birth aft of cabin ladder? Do you have the sheeting of the mainsail correct? Bolger wrote in 101 Small Boat Rigs that a sheet only affects the area above it.
Eric

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, BruceHallman <hallman@...> wrote:
>
> Bolgers most recent, Advanced Sharpie AS-34
>
> This design is the most recently revealed Bolger design, published
> posthumously, named the Advanced Sharpie AS-34. It is reminiscent of
> several the designs in the last decade, with the cutwater stem (seen
> in the New England Fisheries series), with filleted pieces and
> overhanging deck at the bow. There were a number of variations on the
> AS-3xxx designs on the drawing board, but this one is released and
> plans are for sale from Phil Bolger & Friends. (As written up in the
> magazine Messing About in Boats from last month.) That rig is another
> form of the Bolger "Chinese Gaff", a variant mix of a gaff rig and a
> Chinese lug rig. (The notable variation is that the flexible full
> length battens bear on the masts, and the main gaff is sheeted from
> the top of the mizzen mast which is acting as a sheeting staff.) Both
> the masts are tabernacled, and there are two dinghies nestled on deck.
>
>http://www.hallman.org/bolger/AS34/
>

Bolgers most recent, Advanced Sharpie AS-34

This design is the most recently revealed Bolger design, published
posthumously, named the Advanced Sharpie AS-34. It is reminiscent of
several the designs in the last decade, with the cutwater stem (seen
in the New England Fisheries series), with filleted pieces and
overhanging deck at the bow. There were a number of variations on the
AS-3xxx designs on the drawing board, but this one is released and
plans are for sale from Phil Bolger & Friends. (As written up in the
magazine Messing About in Boats from last month.) That rig is another
form of the Bolger "Chinese Gaff", a variant mix of a gaff rig and a
Chinese lug rig. (The notable variation is that the flexible full
length battens bear on the masts, and the main gaff is sheeted from
the top of the mizzen mast which is acting as a sheeting staff.) Both
the masts are tabernacled, and there are two dinghies nestled on deck.

http://www.hallman.org/bolger/AS34/