Re: Micro Sails

Denis,

 

I’ll chime in here too. Leaving off the mizzen would make for a very poor handling Micro. The first couple of years I had mine I had no motor at all (later got an electric when it became required to use power in the marina). I learned a lot backing out of the slip and slow speed maneuvering with the sails.

 

Plus, you won’t have self steering or station keeping without the mizzen.

 

MylesJ

Denis you have gotten good advice as to the sails and I would like to add a small thought.  I would add in a fitting at the top of the mizzen and the foot of the main so that a later date you can add aMizzen staysail.  The time will come when you will want to sail faster.  I have been sailing schooners, ketches, and Yawls most of my life and there is nothing better than a staysail. It will gain you a knot on any baem or off the wind course if wind is such that you can carry the sail.  It doubles the drive from the mizzen by creating a slot not to mention it's own square footage.  It can be raised and lowered from a position at the tiller.   I would make provisions or plan on making them at a later date.  Most Yawl sailors are sloop sailors who have made a concession by having a mizzen.  I would say be split rig thinker right from the start.                      Doug



On 02/27/2011 10:48 AM, meier.denis wrote:
 

Thank you David and John,
I will take your sage advice and stay with the sail plan as drawn. I sure appreciate your assistance.
Denis

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "dnjost"<davidjost@...>wrote:
>
> Denis -
>
> I would strongly advise not leaving off the mizzen. This sail really helps a lot and does not make sailing the boat more difficult, rather it assists with keeping the boat where you want it to go.
>
> Cats have a tendency to load up the helm, particularly when healing, and the mizzen helps to offset that. This is more problematic on the Cape Cod type with the barn door rudders, and this is not as serious on Micro where the rudder is more forward and abaft the keel.
>
> I used to use the mizzen only when approaching the dock under sail when going downwind. You can even use it to go backwards. Making a mizzen mast was actually one of the more enjoyable aspects of building this boat, and a great tune up for the main mast.
>
> My opinion is that leaving off the mizzen will make this boat more difficult to sail.
>
> David Jost
> former Micro builder and owner.
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "meier.denis" <meier.denis@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Rod Cahill <rod_cahill@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Denis, I too am nearing completion of my Micro with cabin. I have made a
> > > tabernacle built into the bow to make setting the mast an easier job. Do you
> > > have any photos. I am yet to finish the keel and attach. My photos can be found
> > > under "Rods Micro".
> > >
> > > Rod Cahill
> > > Bowning
> > > New South Wales
> > > Australia
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello Rod, it was your cabin that inspired me and mine is similar except with larger portholes. I will post pics when I can. My shop is so small that I cannot get far enough back to take a decent one. Did you fabricate your entry door yet? Would love to see a picture of what you have done.
> > Denis
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: meier.denis <meier.denis@>
> > > To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Sun, 27 February, 2011 11:59:49 AM
> > > Subject: [bolger] Micro Sails
> > >
> > > I am nearing completion of my Micro and have added a cabin similar to one I saw
> > > on this group and now I need to ask a question about sails. I am a novice
> > > sailor(and a fair weather one to boot) so I am wondering about replacing the cat
> > > ketch rig with just a cat rig. Is there a down side to only having one sail? I
> > > do not wish to get anywhere fast under sail(I have a 9.9 Johnson and I am not
> > > afraid to use it)so I hope I can draw upon your experience and get my question
> > > answered.
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance,
> > >
> > > Denis Meier
> > > Onoway, Alberta, Canada
> > >
> > > MICRO Wave
> > > PDRacer #435 Duck
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!!  Please!
> > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> > > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> > > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> > > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978)
> > > 282-1349
> > > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups
> > > Links
> > >
> >
>


Thank you David and John,
I will take your sage advice and stay with the sail plan as drawn. I sure appreciate your assistance.
Denis

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "dnjost" <davidjost@...> wrote:
>
> Denis -
>
> I would strongly advise not leaving off the mizzen. This sail really helps a lot and does not make sailing the boat more difficult, rather it assists with keeping the boat where you want it to go.
>
> Cats have a tendency to load up the helm, particularly when healing, and the mizzen helps to offset that. This is more problematic on the Cape Cod type with the barn door rudders, and this is not as serious on Micro where the rudder is more forward and abaft the keel.
>
> I used to use the mizzen only when approaching the dock under sail when going downwind. You can even use it to go backwards. Making a mizzen mast was actually one of the more enjoyable aspects of building this boat, and a great tune up for the main mast.
>
> My opinion is that leaving off the mizzen will make this boat more difficult to sail.
>
> David Jost
> former Micro builder and owner.
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "meier.denis" <meier.denis@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Rod Cahill <rod_cahill@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Denis, I too am nearing completion of my Micro with cabin. I have made a
> > > tabernacle built into the bow to make setting the mast an easier job. Do you
> > > have any photos. I am yet to finish the keel and attach. My photos can be found
> > > under "Rods Micro".
> > >
> > > Rod Cahill
> > > Bowning
> > > New South Wales
> > > Australia
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello Rod, it was your cabin that inspired me and mine is similar except with larger portholes. I will post pics when I can. My shop is so small that I cannot get far enough back to take a decent one. Did you fabricate your entry door yet? Would love to see a picture of what you have done.
> > Denis
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: meier.denis <meier.denis@>
> > > To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Sun, 27 February, 2011 11:59:49 AM
> > > Subject: [bolger] Micro Sails
> > >
> > > I am nearing completion of my Micro and have added a cabin similar to one I saw
> > > on this group and now I need to ask a question about sails. I am a novice
> > > sailor(and a fair weather one to boot) so I am wondering about replacing the cat
> > > ketch rig with just a cat rig. Is there a down side to only having one sail? I
> > > do not wish to get anywhere fast under sail(I have a 9.9 Johnson and I am not
> > > afraid to use it)so I hope I can draw upon your experience and get my question
> > > answered.
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance,
> > >
> > > Denis Meier
> > > Onoway, Alberta, Canada
> > >
> > > MICRO Wave
> > > PDRacer #435 Duck
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!!  Please!
> > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> > > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> > > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> > > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978)
> > > 282-1349
> > > - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups
> > > Links
> > >
> >
>
Rod, I had not looked at the pics in your file for a while so I have now seen your entry way. I want to use MicroWave for camping so will need a door that opens on hinges and is also easily removable. Thanks for the great photos.
Denis

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Rod Cahill <rod_cahill@...> wrote:
>
> Denis, I too am nearing completion of my Micro with cabin. I have made a
> tabernacle built into the bow to make setting the mast an easier job. Do you
> have any photos. I am yet to finish the keel and attach. My photos can be found
> under "Rods Micro".
>
> Rod Cahill
> Bowning
> New South Wales
> Australia
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: meier.denis <meier.denis@...>
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sun, 27 February, 2011 11:59:49 AM
> Subject: [bolger] Micro Sails
>
> I am nearing completion of my Micro and have added a cabin similar to one I saw
> on this group and now I need to ask a question about sails. I am a novice
> sailor(and a fair weather one to boot) so I am wondering about replacing the cat
> ketch rig with just a cat rig. Is there a down side to only having one sail? I
> do not wish to get anywhere fast under sail(I have a 9.9 Johnson and I am not
> afraid to use it)so I hope I can draw upon your experience and get my question
> answered.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Denis Meier
> Onoway, Alberta, Canada
>
> MICRO Wave
> PDRacer #435 Duck
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!!  Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978)
> 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups
> Links
>
Denis -

I would strongly advise not leaving off the mizzen. This sail really helps a lot and does not make sailing the boat more difficult, rather it assists with keeping the boat where you want it to go.

Cats have a tendency to load up the helm, particularly when healing, and the mizzen helps to offset that. This is more problematic on the Cape Cod type with the barn door rudders, and this is not as serious on Micro where the rudder is more forward and abaft the keel.

I used to use the mizzen only when approaching the dock under sail when going downwind. You can even use it to go backwards. Making a mizzen mast was actually one of the more enjoyable aspects of building this boat, and a great tune up for the main mast.

My opinion is that leaving off the mizzen will make this boat more difficult to sail.

David Jost
former Micro builder and owner.

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "meier.denis" <meier.denis@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Rod Cahill <rod_cahill@> wrote:
> >
> > Denis, I too am nearing completion of my Micro with cabin. I have made a
> > tabernacle built into the bow to make setting the mast an easier job. Do you
> > have any photos. I am yet to finish the keel and attach. My photos can be found
> > under "Rods Micro".
> >
> > Rod Cahill
> > Bowning
> > New South Wales
> > Australia
> >
> >
> >
> > Hello Rod, it was your cabin that inspired me and mine is similar except with larger portholes. I will post pics when I can. My shop is so small that I cannot get far enough back to take a decent one. Did you fabricate your entry door yet? Would love to see a picture of what you have done.
> Denis
> > ________________________________
> > From: meier.denis <meier.denis@>
> > To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Sun, 27 February, 2011 11:59:49 AM
> > Subject: [bolger] Micro Sails
> >
> > I am nearing completion of my Micro and have added a cabin similar to one I saw
> > on this group and now I need to ask a question about sails. I am a novice
> > sailor(and a fair weather one to boot) so I am wondering about replacing the cat
> > ketch rig with just a cat rig. Is there a down side to only having one sail? I
> > do not wish to get anywhere fast under sail(I have a 9.9 Johnson and I am not
> > afraid to use it)so I hope I can draw upon your experience and get my question
> > answered.
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> >
> > Denis Meier
> > Onoway, Alberta, Canada
> >
> > MICRO Wave
> > PDRacer #435 Duck
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!!  Please!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978)
> > 282-1349
> > - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups
> > Links
> >
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Rod Cahill <rod_cahill@...> wrote:
>
> Denis, I too am nearing completion of my Micro with cabin. I have made a
> tabernacle built into the bow to make setting the mast an easier job. Do you
> have any photos. I am yet to finish the keel and attach. My photos can be found
> under "Rods Micro".
>
> Rod Cahill
> Bowning
> New South Wales
> Australia
>
>
>
> Hello Rod, it was your cabin that inspired me and mine is similar except with larger portholes. I will post pics when I can. My shop is so small that I cannot get far enough back to take a decent one. Did you fabricate your entry door yet? Would love to see a picture of what you have done.
Denis
> ________________________________
> From: meier.denis <meier.denis@...>
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sun, 27 February, 2011 11:59:49 AM
> Subject: [bolger] Micro Sails
>
> I am nearing completion of my Micro and have added a cabin similar to one I saw
> on this group and now I need to ask a question about sails. I am a novice
> sailor(and a fair weather one to boot) so I am wondering about replacing the cat
> ketch rig with just a cat rig. Is there a down side to only having one sail? I
> do not wish to get anywhere fast under sail(I have a 9.9 Johnson and I am not
> afraid to use it)so I hope I can draw upon your experience and get my question
> answered.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Denis Meier
> Onoway, Alberta, Canada
>
> MICRO Wave
> PDRacer #435 Duck
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!!  Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978)
> 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups
> Links
>
Denis, I too am nearing completion of my Micro with cabin. I have made a tabernacle built into the bow to make setting the mast an easier job. Do you have any photos. I am yet to finish the keel and attach. My photos can be found under "Rods Micro".
Rod Cahill
Bowning
New South Wales
Australia

From:meier.denis <meier.denis@...>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent:Sun, 27 February, 2011 11:59:49 AM
Subject:[bolger] Micro Sails

I am nearing completion of my Micro and have added a cabin similar to one I saw on this group and now I need to ask a question about sails. I am a novice sailor(and a fair weather one to boot) so I am wondering about replacing the cat ketch rig with just a cat rig. Is there a down side to only having one sail? I do not wish to get anywhere fast under sail(I have a 9.9 Johnson and I am not afraid to use it)so I hope I can draw upon your experience and get my question answered.

Thanks in advance,

Denis Meier
Onoway, Alberta, Canada

MICRO Wave
PDRacer #435 Duck



------------------------------------

Bolger rules!!!
- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!!  Please!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links

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Anything is possible, but…

 

Sailboats balance the force of the wind on the sails against the resistance of the boat and keel in the water. Micro carries a cat/yawl rig and the two sails balance the boat. If you eliminate the mizzen, the boat will be out of balance and will develop what is called a ‘lee helm’. A lee helm means that the boat will not sail up wind. This is potentially dangerous because instead of turning into the wind when a puff of wind hits, the boat will turn across the wind. At best, this will scare you badly; at worst, the boat will capsize.

 

If you must go with one sail, it will be necessary to move the sail aft so that the center of the new sail is somewhere close to the combined center of the rig PCB drew. This will put the mast in the middle of the cabin and require a redesigned companionway.

 

In fact, a cat yawl rig is easy and safe for a novice sailor. You trim the mizzen and it pretty much self tending. If you feel you are being overpowered (or just want to stop for any reason), release the main sheet and the boat will turn into the wind. It will sit there peacefully while you figure out what you want to do.

 

I wouldn’t change the rig which I think is ideal for Micro. But it’s not my boat.

 

Have fun.

 

JohnT  

 

From:bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto: bolger@yahoogroups.com ]On Behalf Ofmeier.denis
Sent:Saturday, February 26, 2011 8:00 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject:[bolger] Micro Sails

 

 

I am nearing completion of my Micro and have added a cabin similar to one I saw on this group and now I need to ask a question about sails. I am a novice sailor(and a fair weather one to boot) so I am wondering about replacing the cat ketch rig with just a cat rig. Is there a down side to only having one sail? I do not wish to get anywhere fast under sail(I have a 9.9 Johnson and I am not afraid to use it)so I hope I can draw upon your experience and get my question answered.

Thanks in advance,

Denis Meier
Onoway , Alberta , Canada

MICRO Wave
PDRacer #435 Duck

I am nearing completion of my Micro and have added a cabin similar to one I saw on this group and now I need to ask a question about sails. I am a novice sailor(and a fair weather one to boot) so I am wondering about replacing the cat ketch rig with just a cat rig. Is there a down side to only having one sail? I do not wish to get anywhere fast under sail(I have a 9.9 Johnson and I am not afraid to use it)so I hope I can draw upon your experience and get my question answered.

Thanks in advance,

Denis Meier
Onoway, Alberta, Canada

MICRO Wave
PDRacer #435 Duck