Re: [bolger] Re: Chinese or expensive occume for hull?
My Whalewatcher is
built from 1/2" fir plywood, glass and epoxy sheathed outside, just sealed with
epoxy inside. Before being finished by Mason Smith, the bare hull sat
outside under a blue tarp in southern California for several years and the
exterior was in very good shape even then, just needing fresh paint. Finish on
outside has held up very well and there has been no checking whatsoever. There
is checking on the inside, but seems stable as it has not broken the new coats
of paint applied by Mason. The builder of the hull, Tim Anderson, did a fine job
of glassing, priming and painting and this certainly had something to do with
it.
When not in use, she
sleeps on her trailer in a pole barn. Regardless of
what was built from, she would need to be kept under snug cover and
checked occasionally due to the centerline opening. This would apply whether her
Sunbrella snap over cover is on or not - that is, if you want her to
last.
Patrick A. Connor
Executive Vice President &
Manager,
National Services Group
Old Republic National Title Insurance
Company
141 East Town Street, Suite
101
Columbus, Ohio 43215-5412
Phone: 614-341-1900 Ext 202
Mobile: 614-208-9308
Facsimile: 614-341-1903
You should consider building in MDO. IIRC the mill in Shelton makes MDO. MDO is specially made for outdoor billboards, so the quality of the waterproofing is excellent. In addition it comes with one or two sides that have been resin impregnated so those billboards can go up without needing to be primed. That mill makes MDO from ¼ inch on up. Price for 3/8 is in the $40 range. You will save a lot of surface prep time and the cost of an epoxy seal coat.
MylesJ
On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 6:12 AM, Walter <walter@...> wrote:
keep it dry and covered on the trailer when not in use, it can last
for decades.
> Phil pretty much spec'd fir for his designs.Whalewatcher is a trailer boat. If you use regular fir plywood and
keep it dry and covered on the trailer when not in use, it can last
for decades.
I have dealt with Edensaw since the 1980's always as a long distance
customer. The first load of lumber I got from them was when I lived in
Nome and building a 26' fishing boat. They sent some extra pieces of
clear wood over and above what I had ordered with a note that what they
were sending was not quite as good as they would have like so they were
including some extra to make sure I had enough. This was during a time
when living in Alaska if somebody shipped you something on the barge
they were liable to send you seconds or maybe thirds knowing there
wasn't much you could do about it. I just got a shipment of plywood from
them for a 15'6" work skiff, perfectly packaged and delivered to the
barge for free.
HJ
customer. The first load of lumber I got from them was when I lived in
Nome and building a 26' fishing boat. They sent some extra pieces of
clear wood over and above what I had ordered with a note that what they
were sending was not quite as good as they would have like so they were
including some extra to make sure I had enough. This was during a time
when living in Alaska if somebody shipped you something on the barge
they were liable to send you seconds or maybe thirds knowing there
wasn't much you could do about it. I just got a shipment of plywood from
them for a 15'6" work skiff, perfectly packaged and delivered to the
barge for free.
HJ
On 4/11/2011 6:58 AM, dennislancaster36 wrote:
> Edensaw are great folks to work with. Got the bulk of my wood from them and at the time, free shipping with an order over $300. Don't know about that now. My thoughts on longivity was to buy the best up front, you have a better chance at longer lifespan. Of course, how you prepare and build has more to do with lifespan than anything. not to mention continuous maintenance. I used Okume and it was great to work with.
>
> Good luck on whatever you decide to build.. . enjoy the experience.
>
> Fairwinds,
>
> Dennis OldShoe "Pearl"
> Bellingham, WA
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "sirdarnell"<sirdarnell@...> wrote:
>> If it has the BS 1088 stamp, use it. Otherwise they are probably lying.
>>
>> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "thewildernessvoice"<thewildernessvoice@> wrote:
>>> I am seriously thinking about building the Whalewatcher I have plans for, it will take about forty sheets of plywood edensaw is near me in Tacoma WA, they cheap chinese occume that meets the 1088 standard is about $40 a sheet where as the expensive stuff is about $100 more per sheet. Either the cheap or expensive occume is going to be epoxy encapsolated by the time I am done. So, wonder if there are any negitives in using the cheaper plywood? What do I lose when I use the Chinese stuff. Now, I plan to use the boat for about twenty yrs.
>>> In a way, it is kind of a deal breaker for me. I use the same amount of labor and epoxy with either choice, but will likely build a Chebaco if buying the expensive occume is just worth it. I am sure the Chebacco would serve me well. However, I have lusted over the whalewatcher and so what advantage in practical terms considering the longevity of the boat to use the more expensive ply? On the other hand, if the cheaper plywood will work as well over the long term, that is good to know as well
>>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
The fir plywood coming out of the Pacific NW really isn't very good. I
won't use it anymore myself. I have been told that some of the Canadian
stuff is OK. Counted 8 patches on the A side of a piece of 1/4 in and
found a void. The previously mentioned Edensaw does not sell fir marine
plywood anymore, they say the quality is too poor.
HJ
won't use it anymore myself. I have been told that some of the Canadian
stuff is OK. Counted 8 patches on the A side of a piece of 1/4 in and
found a void. The previously mentioned Edensaw does not sell fir marine
plywood anymore, they say the quality is too poor.
HJ
On 4/11/2011 5:12 AM, Walter wrote:
>
>
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "thewildernessvoice"<thewildernessvoice@...> wrote:
>> I am seriously thinking about building the Whalewatcher I have plans for, it will take about forty sheets of plywood edensaw is near me in Tacoma WA, they cheap chinese occume that meets the 1088 standard is about $40 a sheet where as the expensive stuff is about $100 more per sheet. Either the cheap or expensive occume is going to be epoxy encapsolated by the time I am done. So, wonder if there are any negitives in using the cheaper plywood? What do I lose when I use the Chinese stuff. Now, I plan to use the boat for about twenty yrs.
>> In a way, it is kind of a deal breaker for me. I use the same amount of labor and epoxy with either choice, but will likely build a Chebaco if buying the expensive occume is just worth it. I am sure the Chebacco would serve me well. However, I have lusted over the whalewatcher and so what advantage in practical terms considering the longevity of the boat to use the more expensive ply? On the other hand, if the cheaper plywood will work as well over the long term, that is good to know as well
>>
> Why not check out your local fir marine ply ? Phil pretty much spec'd fir for his designs. Fir ply prices are probably in the middle of the spread you quote above. I know fir quality is not what it was, but if you are going to epoxify it all, it should work fine. I have built many boats with fir marine ply, they will easily last 20 years. Take a look at the local stuff, it may surprise you.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
Edensaw are great folks to work with. Got the bulk of my wood from them and at the time, free shipping with an order over $300. Don't know about that now. My thoughts on longivity was to buy the best up front, you have a better chance at longer lifespan. Of course, how you prepare and build has more to do with lifespan than anything. not to mention continuous maintenance. I used Okume and it was great to work with.
Good luck on whatever you decide to build.. . enjoy the experience.
Fairwinds,
Dennis OldShoe "Pearl"
Bellingham, WA
Good luck on whatever you decide to build.. . enjoy the experience.
Fairwinds,
Dennis OldShoe "Pearl"
Bellingham, WA
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "sirdarnell" <sirdarnell@...> wrote:
>
> If it has the BS 1088 stamp, use it. Otherwise they are probably lying.
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "thewildernessvoice" <thewildernessvoice@> wrote:
> >
> > I am seriously thinking about building the Whalewatcher I have plans for, it will take about forty sheets of plywood edensaw is near me in Tacoma WA, they cheap chinese occume that meets the 1088 standard is about $40 a sheet where as the expensive stuff is about $100 more per sheet. Either the cheap or expensive occume is going to be epoxy encapsolated by the time I am done. So, wonder if there are any negitives in using the cheaper plywood? What do I lose when I use the Chinese stuff. Now, I plan to use the boat for about twenty yrs.
> > In a way, it is kind of a deal breaker for me. I use the same amount of labor and epoxy with either choice, but will likely build a Chebaco if buying the expensive occume is just worth it. I am sure the Chebacco would serve me well. However, I have lusted over the whalewatcher and so what advantage in practical terms considering the longevity of the boat to use the more expensive ply? On the other hand, if the cheaper plywood will work as well over the long term, that is good to know as well
> >
>
If it has the BS 1088 stamp, use it. Otherwise they are probably lying.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "thewildernessvoice" <thewildernessvoice@...> wrote:
>
> I am seriously thinking about building the Whalewatcher I have plans for, it will take about forty sheets of plywood edensaw is near me in Tacoma WA, they cheap chinese occume that meets the 1088 standard is about $40 a sheet where as the expensive stuff is about $100 more per sheet. Either the cheap or expensive occume is going to be epoxy encapsolated by the time I am done. So, wonder if there are any negitives in using the cheaper plywood? What do I lose when I use the Chinese stuff. Now, I plan to use the boat for about twenty yrs.
> In a way, it is kind of a deal breaker for me. I use the same amount of labor and epoxy with either choice, but will likely build a Chebaco if buying the expensive occume is just worth it. I am sure the Chebacco would serve me well. However, I have lusted over the whalewatcher and so what advantage in practical terms considering the longevity of the boat to use the more expensive ply? On the other hand, if the cheaper plywood will work as well over the long term, that is good to know as well
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "thewildernessvoice" <thewildernessvoice@...> wrote:
>Why not check out your local fir marine ply ? Phil pretty much spec'd fir for his designs. Fir ply prices are probably in the middle of the spread you quote above. I know fir quality is not what it was, but if you are going to epoxify it all, it should work fine. I have built many boats with fir marine ply, they will easily last 20 years. Take a look at the local stuff, it may surprise you.
> I am seriously thinking about building the Whalewatcher I have plans for, it will take about forty sheets of plywood edensaw is near me in Tacoma WA, they cheap chinese occume that meets the 1088 standard is about $40 a sheet where as the expensive stuff is about $100 more per sheet. Either the cheap or expensive occume is going to be epoxy encapsolated by the time I am done. So, wonder if there are any negitives in using the cheaper plywood? What do I lose when I use the Chinese stuff. Now, I plan to use the boat for about twenty yrs.
> In a way, it is kind of a deal breaker for me. I use the same amount of labor and epoxy with either choice, but will likely build a Chebaco if buying the expensive occume is just worth it. I am sure the Chebacco would serve me well. However, I have lusted over the whalewatcher and so what advantage in practical terms considering the longevity of the boat to use the more expensive ply? On the other hand, if the cheaper plywood will work as well over the long term, that is good to know as well
>
Wow, I hadn't heard about Edensaw before, looked on
the web, and the Tacoma location is about 12 miles from where I live. I'm very
curious about how this works out too.
They also have a Port Townsend location, which
is where their main offices are. Their web site said they ship their products to
many locations, so even if you aren't local, if you have a big project or very
specific requirements, it might be worth checking out.
For those who aren't local, Port Townsend is a
hotbed of traditional wooden boat building and culture, and so likely
Edensaw knows more about this than most lumber supplies do.
Sincerely,
Roger
I have an email into Adam who is at the Pt Townsend, WA location who is their point guy for marine plywood, but haven 't heard back yet, so will post when he does--- OnSun, 4/10/11, Harry James<welshman@...>wrote: |
Edensaw is a very reliable supplier, talk to the salesman. I would be
interested in what you find out.
HJ
interested in what you find out.
HJ
On 4/10/2011 7:37 PM, pkortlucke wrote:
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "thewildernessvoice"
> <thewildernessvoice@...> wrote:
>> I am seriously thinking about building the Whalewatcher I have plans
> for, it will take about forty sheets of plywood edensaw is near me in
> Tacoma WA, they cheap chinese occume that meets the 1088 standard is
> about $40 a sheet where as the expensive stuff is about $100 more per
> sheet.>>
>
>
> It is common for Asian manufacturers to stamp BS1088 on sheets of ply
> that do not meet the standard, as it is a British standard and
> unenforcable in the rest of the world. If it is to that standard you'll
> be fine...if not you'll have problems. If you can get a guarantee from
> the supplier it might be OK. I get Asian occume from my supplier here in
> Brisbane that is fine but they inspect everything very carefully and
> have found a reliable manufacturer.
>
> Cheers
>
> Peter
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
I've seen ply from China properly stamped "BS1088" made from dust and grass stalks for internal plies. Other stuff one inch thick you could crumble in your hand. The stamp itself is unreliable. Do like Peter says: check the standard is the standard. Spending an extra $2400 is something surely worth considering, but, over the timespan you intend for keeping, so is the virtually guaranteed longevity, and the peace of mind that it may buy. Perhaps, if it's not up to standard, there's a middle way incorporating locally produced marine/external ply?
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "pkortlucke" <pkortlucke@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "thewildernessvoice"
> <thewildernessvoice@> wrote:
> >
> > I am seriously thinking about building the Whalewatcher I have plans
> for, it will take about forty sheets of plywood edensaw is near me in
> Tacoma WA, they cheap chinese occume that meets the 1088 standard is
> about $40 a sheet where as the expensive stuff is about $100 more per
> sheet. >>
>
>
> It is common for Asian manufacturers to stamp BS1088 on sheets of ply
> that do not meet the standard, as it is a British standard and
> unenforcable in the rest of the world. If it is to that standard you'll
> be fine...if not you'll have problems. If you can get a guarantee from
> the supplier it might be OK. I get Asian occume from my supplier here in
> Brisbane that is fine but they inspect everything very carefully and
> have found a reliable manufacturer.
>
> Cheers
>
> Peter
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "thewildernessvoice"
<thewildernessvoice@...> wrote:
Tacoma WA, they cheap chinese occume that meets the 1088 standard is
about $40 a sheet where as the expensive stuff is about $100 more per
sheet. >>
It is common for Asian manufacturers to stamp BS1088 on sheets of ply
that do not meet the standard, as it is a British standard and
unenforcable in the rest of the world. If it is to that standard you'll
be fine...if not you'll have problems. If you can get a guarantee from
the supplier it might be OK. I get Asian occume from my supplier here in
Brisbane that is fine but they inspect everything very carefully and
have found a reliable manufacturer.
Cheers
Peter
<thewildernessvoice@...> wrote:
>for, it will take about forty sheets of plywood edensaw is near me in
> I am seriously thinking about building the Whalewatcher I have plans
Tacoma WA, they cheap chinese occume that meets the 1088 standard is
about $40 a sheet where as the expensive stuff is about $100 more per
sheet. >>
It is common for Asian manufacturers to stamp BS1088 on sheets of ply
that do not meet the standard, as it is a British standard and
unenforcable in the rest of the world. If it is to that standard you'll
be fine...if not you'll have problems. If you can get a guarantee from
the supplier it might be OK. I get Asian occume from my supplier here in
Brisbane that is fine but they inspect everything very carefully and
have found a reliable manufacturer.
Cheers
Peter
I am seriously thinking about building the Whalewatcher I have plans for, it will take about forty sheets of plywood edensaw is near me in Tacoma WA, they cheap chinese occume that meets the 1088 standard is about $40 a sheet where as the expensive stuff is about $100 more per sheet. Either the cheap or expensive occume is going to be epoxy encapsolated by the time I am done. So, wonder if there are any negitives in using the cheaper plywood? What do I lose when I use the Chinese stuff. Now, I plan to use the boat for about twenty yrs.
In a way, it is kind of a deal breaker for me. I use the same amount of labor and epoxy with either choice, but will likely build a Chebaco if buying the expensive occume is just worth it. I am sure the Chebacco would serve me well. However, I have lusted over the whalewatcher and so what advantage in practical terms considering the longevity of the boat to use the more expensive ply? On the other hand, if the cheaper plywood will work as well over the long term, that is good to know as well
In a way, it is kind of a deal breaker for me. I use the same amount of labor and epoxy with either choice, but will likely build a Chebaco if buying the expensive occume is just worth it. I am sure the Chebacco would serve me well. However, I have lusted over the whalewatcher and so what advantage in practical terms considering the longevity of the boat to use the more expensive ply? On the other hand, if the cheaper plywood will work as well over the long term, that is good to know as well