Re: Lead keel shaping

Either of these tools might work.

http://www.duckworksbbs.com/tools/shinto/index.htm

http://www.amazon.com/Stanley-21-296-Surform-Plane-Regular/dp/B00002X1ZL

I have the Surform version but no lead to try it on. It works very much
like cheese grater.

Nels

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "David" <lae52@...> wrote:
>
> I think it was on Welsfords Yahoo group that I heard someone, John
maybe, talking about using a power planer. If hand tools (files) load up
try coating them with a layer of chalk before using them. They also make
a file that had coarse curved teeth cut that was made for use with lead
when it was used in auto body work.
>
> Dave
>

Great job so far! I suggest you clamp two straight-edged guides along the entire length of the casting, one on each side, the top edge of both exactly parallel, a half-inch above the finish level. Try to get the edges parallel to the finish cut you want to avoid having to remove too much from one end. Then get a flat sheet of maybe 1/4" plywood > 2x the width of the casting, and bore a 1.5" hole for the bit in the center of the ply. Mount a serious router with a 1" end mill bit to center the plywood sheet, adjust the bit and the depth of the cut so it can plunge down to above the 3/4" the finish level, and use the guides to slide the router over and down, side to side across the entire face. First adjust the router depth to just clean off the very highest spots, and gradually lower the bit to remove the minimum material to get a flat surface. Wear a mask. The lead will go away fast. I have not done this, but it is what I would do. Good Luck. Maybe someone already suggested something like this, but I just get the digest, so I may be a little behind the topic.
 
Jason K
Everett WA

Thankyou to all who have given advise on the shaping of lead keel. For those who may be interested I will give a brief description of how I have done things so far. I am yet to prove how successful my methods may be!
I have roughly welded a template from 40mm flat bar and sectioned it. The sectioning is so I don't need to do the pour in one sitting and to help keep the shape of the template. I then bent this template onto a waste piece of ply and screwed it in place.
I was fortunate enough to get some lead ingots from an old printing works. I filled the section with solid ingots then melted some in a kitchen saucepan and filled the gaps. The little single burner camp cooker did take about 20 minutes to melt 4 or 5 kg, lots of coffee breaks between pours. I have included some photos in "Rods Micro" photos. Any constructive criticism will be graciously accepted. I am learning as I go.

 

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "rod_cahill" <rod_cahill@...> wrote:

>
> I have now made sections of my Micro keel... When it is cool enough it will need to be shaved to produce a perfectly flat surface to epoxy into the keel casing. My question is, what is the easiest way to shave the lead.

An electric handplane works well. It produces shavings rather than dust, so no ingestion/inhalation risk. The build guide which came with my plans called for epoxying in addition to bronze nailing. I would recommend pre-drilling for the nails, and having a few extra drill bits since it's fairly easy to break a bit in the 'grabby' lead.

I poared a lead keel for a friend. I made the mould from 1/2" plywood fiber glassed the inside and buried it into the ground. Worked great except that the dirt was not packed tight enough around the mould and the sides bowed out a little. I took my electric wood plane and planed the sides down some. Did the job but I had to stop after about 15 minuets and take the plane apart to clean the lead out that had packed into it. The plane threw most of the lead out I finished the job an cleaned the plane again It did no harm to the plane and I have used it a dozen times since. It didn't even dull the blades.                Doug
 

On 04/12/2011 02:59 PM, dennislancaster36 wrote:

 

I made a wood plug and took it to a local foundry.....

Dennis (oldshoe) Pearl
Bellingham, WA

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, BruceHallman<hallman@...>wrote:
>
> One other thing...I transferred the molten lead from the melt pot to
> the ingot using an improvised steel ladle, scooping it like some VERY
> hot soup. Molten lead has a viscosity like water.
>

I made a wood plug and took it to a local foundry.....

Dennis (oldshoe) Pearl
Bellingham, WA

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, BruceHallman <hallman@...> wrote:
>
> One other thing...I transferred the molten lead from the melt pot to
> the ingot using an improvised steel ladle, scooping it like some VERY
> hot soup. Molten lead has a viscosity like water.
>

One other thing...I transferred the molten lead from the melt pot to
the ingot using an improvised steel ladle, scooping it like some VERY
hot soup. Molten lead has a viscosity like water.

On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 9:30 AM, meier.denis <meier.denis@...> wrote:

>
>
>
> This is pretty close to next for me too. Did you pour it in one piece?

I did one piece, per the plans, and I recommend it. Though, my pour
was in three batches, filling the ingot mold about 1/2 inch each time.

> How did you heat the lead?

For the melt, I used a 5 gallon steel paint bucket setting on bricks.
Fired up with 75 lbs of BBQ briquettes, and I used my electric leaf
blower to hot it up with air. In hindsight I would have pre-melted
the wheel weights to remove the steel clips first, making a stack of
40 each 10 pound bricks, which I would then remelt for the 400 pour.

Rod,
I would either try pounding the high-spots with a hammer, or a hammer and chisel (or maybe a block plane). I assembled my Long Micro keel with 50 lb. lead bricks, which I cut to length with a brick chisel and a hammer. I found that it worked better than cutting with a hacksaw (and I was too frightened to approach the lead with a circular saw or chain saw, although I've heard it works).

I slathered each brick in thickened epoxy, slid the brick into the keel, then drilled pilot holes with a well lubricated drill bit, and screwed in place with silicone-bronze screws. Belt, suspenders, and epoxy.

Bill in Texas

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, BruceHallman <hallman@...> wrote:
>
> On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 4:46 AM, rod_cahill <rod_cahill@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > I have now made sections of my Micro keel by pouring the hot lead into an open mold. When it is cool enough it will need to be shaved to produce a perfectly flat surface to epoxy into the keel casing.
>
> Congratulations on the Micro build!
>
> I don't think the plans call for epoxy. If I recall correctly, the
> plans call that the lead ingot gets sandwiched between two pieces of
> 1/4" plywood and nailed in place. (I found that the stubby fat nails
> that they market with "Simpson Brand" framing hardware worked great.)
> This ply-nail sandwich method has been tested many times and it does
> work good enough. It is up to you to decide if good enough isn't good
> enough for you and your option can include "belt and suspenders".
>
> Also, there is no need for "perfectly flat" in my opinion. When I did
> my Micro lead casting I needed to trim some edges, and for that I used
> a Skilsaw. Small bumps can be leveled with a hammer as lead is
> malleable, or cut with a hammer and chisel .
>
> I understand the concern about lead toxicity, don't eat or breath the
> dust. (Many of our parents exposed themselves to much higher amounts
> of lead shooting guns at the firing range, and look how they turned
> out!) To me the biggest safety hazard was handling and moving an
> awkward 400 lbs hunk of metal. It took some ingenuity to achieve this
> without dropping it and smashing a toe or finger.
>

This is pretty close to next for me too. Did you pour it in one piece? You did say "sections". Seems like 2 or 3 smaller pieces would be easier to handle than one 400 pounder. I saw somewhere in the photos section where someone poured the keel in 3 sections and it looked much easier to deal with.
How did you heat the lead? I don't have that part figured out yet.
Right now I am sanding, sanding and sanding in preparation for painting above the waterline. I will wait until I have the lead installed before I finish below. Will order the sails from Duckworks this week and should be in the water in July.
I checked the computer where I buy my supplies here in Edmonton and find that I am now 5 years into my 18 month build. On the other hand, the idea was to have it complete by the time I am old enough to retire so that puts me over a year ahead of schedule. Glass half full stuff.
I am getting pretty excited about the prospect of finishing.

Blessings,
Denis Meier
Onoway, Alberta, Canada
#435 Duck (PDRacer)
MicroWave (Micro with a cabin for camping)

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "rod_cahill" <rod_cahill@...> wrote:
>
> I have now made sections of my Micro keel by pouring the hot lead into an open mould. When it is cool enough it will need to be shaved to produce a perfectly flat surface to epoxy into the keel casing. My question is, what is the easiest way to shave the lead. One side is perfectly flat as it was the bottom of the mould whereas the open top has some irregularities that need to be evened out.
>

On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 4:46 AM, rod_cahill <rod_cahill@...> wrote:

>
>
> I have now made sections of my Micro keel by pouring the hot lead into an open mold. When it is cool enough it will need to be shaved to produce a perfectly flat surface to epoxy into the keel casing.

Congratulations on the Micro build!

I don't think the plans call for epoxy. If I recall correctly, the
plans call that the lead ingot gets sandwiched between two pieces of
1/4" plywood and nailed in place. (I found that the stubby fat nails
that they market with "Simpson Brand" framing hardware worked great.)
This ply-nail sandwich method has been tested many times and it does
work good enough. It is up to you to decide if good enough isn't good
enough for you and your option can include "belt and suspenders".

Also, there is no need for "perfectly flat" in my opinion. When I did
my Micro lead casting I needed to trim some edges, and for that I used
a Skilsaw. Small bumps can be leveled with a hammer as lead is
malleable, or cut with a hammer and chisel .

I understand the concern about lead toxicity, don't eat or breath the
dust. (Many of our parents exposed themselves to much higher amounts
of lead shooting guns at the firing range, and look how they turned
out!) To me the biggest safety hazard was handling and moving an
awkward 400 lbs hunk of metal. It took some ingenuity to achieve this
without dropping it and smashing a toe or finger.

I think it was on Welsfords Yahoo group that I heard someone, John maybe, talking about using a power planer. If hand tools (files) load up try coating them with a layer of chalk before using them. They also make a file that had coarse curved teeth cut that was made for use with lead when it was used in auto body work.

Dave

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John and Kathy Trussell" <jtrussell2@...> wrote:
>
> First, be aware that lead dust is nasty stuff and you a) need to wear a mask
> and b) wash thoroughly when you get done.
>
>
>
> Chappelle claims you can plane it with a hand plane. I haven't had much
> success. I have found that a Shinto rasp works pretty well. Files clog
> quickly and I have never tried power tools like a side grinder. I don't
> claim any expertise and likely someone else has a better approach.
>
>
>
> JohnT
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> rod_cahill
> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 7:47 AM
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [bolger] Lead keel shaping
>
>
>
>
>
> I have now made sections of my Micro keel by pouring the hot lead into an
> open mould. When it is cool enough it will need to be shaved to produce a
> perfectly flat surface to epoxy into the keel casing. My question is, what
> is the easiest way to shave the lead. One side is perfectly flat as it was
> the bottom of the mould whereas the open top has some irregularities that
> need to be evened out.
>

I have now made sections of my Micro keel by pouring the hot lead into an open mould. When it is cool enough it will need to be shaved to produce a perfectly flat surface to epoxy into the keel casing. My question is, what is the easiest way to shave the lead. One side is perfectly flat as it was the bottom of the mould whereas the open top has some irregularities that need to be evened out.