Re: Spur II on craigslist
> Or Robote, what say?For the money and time invested in building my Robote, it's difficult to imagine any boat providing more bang for the buck. Not counting oars, I doubt I have more than $200 invested and the V-bottom is outstanding in all conditions I row in. She fits in the bed of my pickup and so gets used more than any of the boats I've built. She's fast enough to give a satisfying workout and tracks well enough to troll slowly. Many trout have met their end at the gunwale of Hypoxia.
Jon
Re: Spur II on craigslist (KOHLENBERG)
Latest WB has an article about this boat and the builder who is from the
San Francisco area.
http://fishersmithwoodenboats.com/
"And given that he has invested more than 1000 hours building KOHLENBERG
and she is 'worth as much as an SUV' both he and the club hope the boat
will last a long time."
"The club" being "The Dolphin Swimming and Boating Club".
Nels
--- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "etap28" <dave.irland@...> wrote:
>
>
> Second that . . .
>
>
> --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" arvent@ wrote:
> >
> > Greyfax, the Tyson built Spur II is the nicest looking pulling boat I
> > have ever seen.
> >
> > http://au.groups.yahoo.com/group/Tysonsbolgerboats/
> >
> > Nels
> >
> > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, BruceHallman <hallman@> wrote:
> > >
> > > On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 5:55 PM, Hugo Tyson hhetyson@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Bruce Hallman made the comment:
> > > >
> > > > "The first one might take 100 hours, (I would take a bet I could do
> > it
> > > > in 60 hours). Then, after you had built the frame & station
> > > > bulkheads, and templates made of the expanded strakes, I am willing
> > to
> > > > bet you could churn out a second boat in 40 hours or even faster."
> >
>
Second that . . .
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" <arvent@...> wrote:
>
> Greyfax, the Tyson built Spur II is the nicest looking pulling boat I
> have ever seen.
>
>http://au.groups.yahoo.com/group/Tysonsbolgerboats/
>
> Nels
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, BruceHallman <hallman@> wrote:
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 5:55 PM, Hugo Tyson hhetyson@ wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Bruce Hallman made the comment:
> > >
> > > "The first one might take 100 hours, (I would take a bet I could do
> it
> > > in 60 hours). Then, after you had built the frame & station
> > > bulkheads, and templates made of the expanded strakes, I am willing
> to
> > > bet you could churn out a second boat in 40 hours or even faster."
>
> Running a straight edge between the keel and lower edge of the sheerNot much less displacement. V for speed building the instant way. Foam sandwich for lightness and strength of either. V bottom will track much better.
> strake gives less displacement, or, to compensate, a wider, higher
> sided, and probably heavier boat.
Or Robote, what say? 
The idea in the cartoon was to test the plywood carvel skin. The chines just disappear with minimal fairing, leaving just smooth and round.
But to quote Phil,
" This design with her fine lines and flare all around should be first-class in a chop or among motorboat wakes.
Besides, the flaring sides look elegant. Wall-sided boats can be reasonably good looking, but they can never match the way a boat with this kind of section seems to skim with her keel just touching the water."
Running a straight edge between the keel and lower edge of the sheer strake gives less displacement, or, to compensate, a wider, higher sided, and probably heavier boat.
On Apr 29, 2011, at 10:47 PM, c.ruzer wrote:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/files/Temporary/
> As a less fragile alternative, June Bug was proposed.
That deadrise shape - why not ply sheet chine v-bottom then? Let's say Poohsticks, what about that?__._
And
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/files/SpurII%20Bruce%20Tyson/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/files/SpurII%20Bruce%20Tyson/
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" <arvent@...> wrote:
>
> Greyfax, the Tyson built Spur II is the nicest looking pulling boat I
> have ever seen.
>
>http://au.groups.yahoo.com/group/Tysonsbolgerboats/
>
> Nels
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/files/Temporary/That deadrise shape - why not ply sheet chine v-bottom then? Let's say Poohsticks, what about that?
> As a less fragile alternative, June Bug was proposed.
Greyfax, the Tyson built Spur II is the nicest looking pulling boat I
have ever seen.
http://au.groups.yahoo.com/group/Tysonsbolgerboats/
Nels
have ever seen.
http://au.groups.yahoo.com/group/Tysonsbolgerboats/
Nels
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, BruceHallman <hallman@...> wrote:
>
> On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 5:55 PM, Hugo Tyson hhetyson@... wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Bruce Hallman made the comment:
> >
> > "The first one might take 100 hours, (I would take a bet I could do
it
> > in 60 hours). Then, after you had built the frame & station
> > bulkheads, and templates made of the expanded strakes, I am willing
to
> > bet you could churn out a second boat in 40 hours or even faster."
On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 5:55 PM, Hugo Tyson <hhetyson@...> wrote:
reminded that it was my first attempt, shameless self education in the
lapstrake construction method. It suffered because I had no idea back
then how to spile, or loft expanded strakes. Neither then did I
understand the benefit of using a lofted mold for intermediate frames.
The 'bent sheer version" you describe was because I had no clue how
to build lapstrake on that first boat. I did though learn a lot
building that boat, and that is what I has set out to do with that
project.
Since, I have lofted hundreds of boats and built several more, and
dozens of models. I think I have learned even more about lofting and
could build another in much less time and much more "correctly"
shaped. (The water doesn't care, but people's eyes do care.)
The last time a checked (about a year ago) that Spur II had required
one repair where two strakes had separated, but with that repair that
boat was still going strong, nine years old.
I also hear you about people in the market for a lapstrake boat
wanting good looks and best materials. (They also usually want cheap
price.) Those two desires conflict.
>I welcome the criticism of that Spur II, and it is spot on. I am
>
>
> Bruce Hallman made the comment:
>
> "The first one might take 100 hours, (I would take a bet I could do it
> in 60 hours). Then, after you had built the frame & station
> bulkheads, and templates made of the expanded strakes, I am willing to
> bet you could churn out a second boat in 40 hours or even faster."
>
> This may be true; but if it turned out looking like that cheap 3mm? bent sheer version of Spur II you built a few years ago I honestly think you would have to pay someone to take it off your hands. I know you built that one extra fast, over a weekend I recall? It was functional to be sure, as we've seen pictures of it on the water, but seriously nobody would pay someone to built a boat extra fast to that standard with virtually no re-sale value and dubious longevity!? Is it still around or has it disintergrated?.
>
reminded that it was my first attempt, shameless self education in the
lapstrake construction method. It suffered because I had no idea back
then how to spile, or loft expanded strakes. Neither then did I
understand the benefit of using a lofted mold for intermediate frames.
The 'bent sheer version" you describe was because I had no clue how
to build lapstrake on that first boat. I did though learn a lot
building that boat, and that is what I has set out to do with that
project.
Since, I have lofted hundreds of boats and built several more, and
dozens of models. I think I have learned even more about lofting and
could build another in much less time and much more "correctly"
shaped. (The water doesn't care, but people's eyes do care.)
The last time a checked (about a year ago) that Spur II had required
one repair where two strakes had separated, but with that repair that
boat was still going strong, nine years old.
I also hear you about people in the market for a lapstrake boat
wanting good looks and best materials. (They also usually want cheap
price.) Those two desires conflict.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/files/Temporary/
Here's a rowboat Phil designed for himself and later offered in SBJ
#77, replying to a request for boats built in series for good rowers
that could weigh 50 pounds and be built in 50 hours each.
A beautiful thing, the construction is plywood carvel. Narrow strips
of 1/4" make up many chines. No tape, both inside and out are glassed
to your liking.
For building time, he was clear you couldn't do a one off in fifty
hours, but that well set up, 10 in 500 or 3 in 150 hours was
certainly possible, and mentioned getting under 80 pounds requires
4mm lapstrake.
I doubt many boats built lapstrake with minimal beveling and lots of
putty are particularly salable. But the Tom Hill method with a guide
strip on the jig allows high grade wood and sharp planes to fly at a
very great rate.
As a less fragile alternative, June Bug was proposed.
Here's a rowboat Phil designed for himself and later offered in SBJ
#77, replying to a request for boats built in series for good rowers
that could weigh 50 pounds and be built in 50 hours each.
A beautiful thing, the construction is plywood carvel. Narrow strips
of 1/4" make up many chines. No tape, both inside and out are glassed
to your liking.
For building time, he was clear you couldn't do a one off in fifty
hours, but that well set up, 10 in 500 or 3 in 150 hours was
certainly possible, and mentioned getting under 80 pounds requires
4mm lapstrake.
I doubt many boats built lapstrake with minimal beveling and lots of
putty are particularly salable. But the Tom Hill method with a guide
strip on the jig allows high grade wood and sharp planes to fly at a
very great rate.
As a less fragile alternative, June Bug was proposed.
Bruce Hallman made the comment:
"The first one might take 100 hours, (I would take a bet I could do it
in 60 hours). Then, after you had built the frame & station
bulkheads, and templates made of the expanded strakes, I am willing to
bet you could churn out a second boat in 40 hours or even faster."
in 60 hours). Then, after you had built the frame & station
bulkheads, and templates made of the expanded strakes, I am willing to
bet you could churn out a second boat in 40 hours or even faster."
This may be true; but if it turned out looking like that cheap 3mm? bent sheer version of Spur II you built a few years ago I honestly think you would have to pay someone to take it off your hands. I know you built that one extra fast, over a weekend I recall? It was functional to be sure, as we've seen pictures of it on the water, but seriously nobody would pay someone to built a boat extra fast to that standard with virtually no re-sale value and dubious longevity!? Is it still around or has it disintergrated?.
I'm pleased to see that your "Topaz Spyder" appears to be of a far higher build standard and should look great on the water. It pays no to rush things!!! ??
From:BruceHallman <hallman@...>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent:Thu, 28 April, 2011 12:18:27 AM
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: Spur II on craigslist
On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 5:30 PM, Walter <walter@...> wrote:
> $3,200- $1,000 materials =$2,200 labor. Say 100 hrs labor, probably more . $2,200/100= $22/hr. Good luck.
The first one might take 100 hours, (I would take a bet I could do it
in 60 hours). Then, after you had built the frame & station
bulkheads, and templates made of the expanded strakes, I am willing to
bet you could churn out a second boat in 40 hours or even faster.
I would suggest that if you ever have the opportunity to visit a small
builder do so. There is a lot more to it than the construction itself. I
have visited a few over the years including Dynamite himself and it is a
real eye-opener.
For one thing just how fast and accurately they can work and the other
thing how low their actual profit is at the end of the day. Ideally you
need a full-time go-fer, clean-up and shop slave as well in order to
concentrate on doing what you are most skilled at doing and a wife that
has strong book-keeping and organizational ability. Shop space to have
several builds going at one time and secure storage space for the
materials, completed hulls etc.
Nels
builder do so. There is a lot more to it than the construction itself. I
have visited a few over the years including Dynamite himself and it is a
real eye-opener.
For one thing just how fast and accurately they can work and the other
thing how low their actual profit is at the end of the day. Ideally you
need a full-time go-fer, clean-up and shop slave as well in order to
concentrate on doing what you are most skilled at doing and a wife that
has strong book-keeping and organizational ability. Shop space to have
several builds going at one time and secure storage space for the
materials, completed hulls etc.
Nels
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Walter" <walter@...> wrote:
> All I am trying to say is that there is a lot more than materials
costs and hours of labor involved in making a living building boats. I
have been doing it for over 30 years, I wish it were as simple as
materials and labor. I started to write a response which included an
explanation of the actual business of boat building, but soon realized
that it would take many hours and many pages. So have fun building and
speculating on building boats.
>
Harry's comments were noted by PCB as regards to the skills of old time boatbuilders who, without the aid of small handheld power tools, were able to work very fast on demanding boat carpentry projects and complete boat more quickly than most of us could imagine today.
--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
From: bolger@yahoogroups.com
To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu Apr 28 13:23:17 2011
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Spur II on craigslist
The one thing I know about building wooden boats for a living is that it
is an avocation not a vocation. Its is something you want to or are even
driven to do. It is not the way to fame and fortune. My father was a
classically trained Master ship wright. Building small cruising boats
was a joy to him and he built a bunch but he made a living in the
Industrial yards and and yards like Lester Stones in the Bay area that
built for the rich.
On the subject of speed, the pros of that era (pre and post world war II
) were incredibly fast at producing very high level wood work and with
out hand power tools. I remember my brother and father putting the hull
of a 16' skiboat together in a week end with the only power tool a
bandsaw running on a Brigs & Stratton. I think about that as I plod
slowly along with almost every known power tool to man in my shop.
HJ
On 4/28/2011 7:14 AM, Walter wrote:
>>
>>> So I guess you don't count building frames, a jig, and templates into the cost of a boat ?
>>> Speed of construction is not the only thing that counts in boat building. Fit and finish do count , as do quality materials and construction techniques.
>> I agree that fit and finish do count! And, that is a double edged
>> sword. Museum quality boats can take hundreds of hours and thousands
>> of dollars. 'rough' quality can take much less. The numerous craft
>> defects in my 40 hour quick and dirty lapstrake build (see above) do
>> not matter at all to the water in the lake. Now, 4 years later, that
>> boat is still fully functional and one of my favorites.
>>
>> As to the frame and templates, the construction method specified by
>> Bolger in the Spur II design involves having the permanent frames
>> being sacrificial template frames that remain permanently in the boat.
>> The jig backbone is a pair of 2x6's (included in the $50 of lumber)
>> which you later rip into strips and use on the seats and sheerline
>> gunnels.
>>
>> If I were to build these boats for sale in multiple copies, I think
>> that time could be saved by having a permanent frame/backbone and by
>> having the expanded strakes be hard templates. This could save several
>> hours of measuring.
>>
> All I am trying to say is that there is a lot more than materials costs and hours of labor involved in making a living building boats. I have been doing it for over 30 years, I wish it were as simple as materials and labor. I started to write a response which included an explanation of the actual business of boat building, but soon realized that it would take many hours and many pages. So have fun building and speculating on building boats.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
The one thing I know about building wooden boats for a living is that it
is an avocation not a vocation. Its is something you want to or are even
driven to do. It is not the way to fame and fortune. My father was a
classically trained Master ship wright. Building small cruising boats
was a joy to him and he built a bunch but he made a living in the
Industrial yards and and yards like Lester Stones in the Bay area that
built for the rich.
On the subject of speed, the pros of that era (pre and post world war II
) were incredibly fast at producing very high level wood work and with
out hand power tools. I remember my brother and father putting the hull
of a 16' skiboat together in a week end with the only power tool a
bandsaw running on a Brigs & Stratton. I think about that as I plod
slowly along with almost every known power tool to man in my shop.
HJ
is an avocation not a vocation. Its is something you want to or are even
driven to do. It is not the way to fame and fortune. My father was a
classically trained Master ship wright. Building small cruising boats
was a joy to him and he built a bunch but he made a living in the
Industrial yards and and yards like Lester Stones in the Bay area that
built for the rich.
On the subject of speed, the pros of that era (pre and post world war II
) were incredibly fast at producing very high level wood work and with
out hand power tools. I remember my brother and father putting the hull
of a 16' skiboat together in a week end with the only power tool a
bandsaw running on a Brigs & Stratton. I think about that as I plod
slowly along with almost every known power tool to man in my shop.
HJ
On 4/28/2011 7:14 AM, Walter wrote:
>>
>>> So I guess you don't count building frames, a jig, and templates into the cost of a boat ?
>>> Speed of construction is not the only thing that counts in boat building. Fit and finish do count , as do quality materials and construction techniques.
>> I agree that fit and finish do count! And, that is a double edged
>> sword. Museum quality boats can take hundreds of hours and thousands
>> of dollars. 'rough' quality can take much less. The numerous craft
>> defects in my 40 hour quick and dirty lapstrake build (see above) do
>> not matter at all to the water in the lake. Now, 4 years later, that
>> boat is still fully functional and one of my favorites.
>>
>> As to the frame and templates, the construction method specified by
>> Bolger in the Spur II design involves having the permanent frames
>> being sacrificial template frames that remain permanently in the boat.
>> The jig backbone is a pair of 2x6's (included in the $50 of lumber)
>> which you later rip into strips and use on the seats and sheerline
>> gunnels.
>>
>> If I were to build these boats for sale in multiple copies, I think
>> that time could be saved by having a permanent frame/backbone and by
>> having the expanded strakes be hard templates. This could save several
>> hours of measuring.
>>
> All I am trying to say is that there is a lot more than materials costs and hours of labor involved in making a living building boats. I have been doing it for over 30 years, I wish it were as simple as materials and labor. I started to write a response which included an explanation of the actual business of boat building, but soon realized that it would take many hours and many pages. So have fun building and speculating on building boats.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, BruceHallman <hallman@...> wrote:
>All I am trying to say is that there is a lot more than materials costs and hours of labor involved in making a living building boats. I have been doing it for over 30 years, I wish it were as simple as materials and labor. I started to write a response which included an explanation of the actual business of boat building, but soon realized that it would take many hours and many pages. So have fun building and speculating on building boats.
> On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 6:48 AM, Walter <walter@...> wrote:
> >
>
> > >http://community.webshots.com/album/360982713bZwutE
> > >
> > So I guess you don't count building frames, a jig, and templates into the cost of a boat ?
> > Speed of construction is not the only thing that counts in boat building. Fit and finish do count , as do quality materials and construction techniques.
>
> I agree that fit and finish do count! And, that is a double edged
> sword. Museum quality boats can take hundreds of hours and thousands
> of dollars. 'rough' quality can take much less. The numerous craft
> defects in my 40 hour quick and dirty lapstrake build (see above) do
> not matter at all to the water in the lake. Now, 4 years later, that
> boat is still fully functional and one of my favorites.
>
> As to the frame and templates, the construction method specified by
> Bolger in the Spur II design involves having the permanent frames
> being sacrificial template frames that remain permanently in the boat.
> The jig backbone is a pair of 2x6's (included in the $50 of lumber)
> which you later rip into strips and use on the seats and sheerline
> gunnels.
>
> If I were to build these boats for sale in multiple copies, I think
> that time could be saved by having a permanent frame/backbone and by
> having the expanded strakes be hard templates. This could save several
> hours of measuring.
>
On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 6:48 AM, Walter <walter@...> wrote:
sword. Museum quality boats can take hundreds of hours and thousands
of dollars. 'rough' quality can take much less. The numerous craft
defects in my 40 hour quick and dirty lapstrake build (see above) do
not matter at all to the water in the lake. Now, 4 years later, that
boat is still fully functional and one of my favorites.
As to the frame and templates, the construction method specified by
Bolger in the Spur II design involves having the permanent frames
being sacrificial template frames that remain permanently in the boat.
The jig backbone is a pair of 2x6's (included in the $50 of lumber)
which you later rip into strips and use on the seats and sheerline
gunnels.
If I were to build these boats for sale in multiple copies, I think
that time could be saved by having a permanent frame/backbone and by
having the expanded strakes be hard templates. This could save several
hours of measuring.
>I agree that fit and finish do count! And, that is a double edged
> >http://community.webshots.com/album/360982713bZwutE
> >
> So I guess you don't count building frames, a jig, and templates into the cost of a boat ?
> Speed of construction is not the only thing that counts in boat building. Fit and finish do count , as do quality materials and construction techniques.
sword. Museum quality boats can take hundreds of hours and thousands
of dollars. 'rough' quality can take much less. The numerous craft
defects in my 40 hour quick and dirty lapstrake build (see above) do
not matter at all to the water in the lake. Now, 4 years later, that
boat is still fully functional and one of my favorites.
As to the frame and templates, the construction method specified by
Bolger in the Spur II design involves having the permanent frames
being sacrificial template frames that remain permanently in the boat.
The jig backbone is a pair of 2x6's (included in the $50 of lumber)
which you later rip into strips and use on the seats and sheerline
gunnels.
If I were to build these boats for sale in multiple copies, I think
that time could be saved by having a permanent frame/backbone and by
having the expanded strakes be hard templates. This could save several
hours of measuring.
> So I guess you don't count building frames,It was clear in the original post that the building mold, and plank templates, etc, were considered sunk costs, i.e. not included in the time estimate. And, the original post was only about the elapsed time of building, not about what might be included in a fair market price for the finished boat (which should include some shop overhead which would include shop-made molds and templates as well as heat, light, rent, and store-bought tools).
> a jig, and templates into the cost of a boat ?
My remark about time obtaining supplies and sharpening tools was meant to suggest that the "time per additional boat" needed some hours of getting ready before the work could actually start.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, BruceHallman <hallman@...> wrote:
Speed of construction is not the only thing that counts in boat building. Fit and finish do count , as do quality materials and construction techniques.
>So I guess you don't count building frames, a jig, and templates into the cost of a boat ?
> On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 11:40 AM, Peter <pvanderwaart@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > Then, after you had built the frame & station
> > > bulkheads, and templates made of the expanded strakes,
> > > I am willing to
> > > bet you could churn out a second boat in 40 hours or even faster.
> >
> > I'm not a builder, even as an amateur, but that seems pretty optimistic to, even if you leave out the time required to obtain the materials, sharpen the tools, etc.
> >
>
>
> I say 40 hours after building the similar lapstrake rowboat "Cartoon
> 5" in 40 manhours. It lacks a degree of fit and finish, but it still
> is a great rowboat.
>
> Here is a photo album of that build...
>
>http://community.webshots.com/album/360982713bZwutE
>
Speed of construction is not the only thing that counts in boat building. Fit and finish do count , as do quality materials and construction techniques.
Hmm. On longevity. One of the only benefits of growing older (old?)at 62 is that the longevity I need is greatly reduced LOL!
Bob
Bob
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, BruceHallman <hallman@...> wrote:
>
> > I am up to around $1100 much to my horror
>
> Consider the option to expensive wood. The longevity of my boats
> doesn't need to be eternal. My luaun plywood/HomeDepot lumber boats
> have lasted at least ten years, longer if stored in a dry place.
> Costs of a Spur II
>
> 6 sheets of luaun plywood = $150
> Framing lumber = $50
> Glass, epoxy = $150
> Sandpaper, and misc. = $150
>
> $500 for materials in a Spur II
>
On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 12:00 PM, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
I sure like the "double ended" nature of Cartoon 5. I am at this
moment lofting Cartoon 5 again, thinking of selling the first one, and
building a second one because I believe that I can do a better job on
a second try. (Both a little bit lighter in weight, and a little bit
faster rowing.)
>I gave away the Spur II to a friend, so I don't remember it as well.
> Bruce
>
> I forget, is it the spur II or the Cartoon 5 that is the favorite
> rowboat in your fleet.
>
> HJ
>
I sure like the "double ended" nature of Cartoon 5. I am at this
moment lofting Cartoon 5 again, thinking of selling the first one, and
building a second one because I believe that I can do a better job on
a second try. (Both a little bit lighter in weight, and a little bit
faster rowing.)
Bruce
I forget, is it the spur II or the Cartoon 5 that is the favorite
rowboat in your fleet.
HJ
I forget, is it the spur II or the Cartoon 5 that is the favorite
rowboat in your fleet.
HJ
On 4/27/2011 10:52 AM, BruceHallman wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 11:40 AM, Peter<pvanderwaart@...> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Then, after you had built the frame& station
>>> bulkheads, and templates made of the expanded strakes,
>>> I am willing to
>>> bet you could churn out a second boat in 40 hours or even faster.
>> I'm not a builder, even as an amateur, but that seems pretty optimistic to, even if you leave out the time required to obtain the materials, sharpen the tools, etc.
>>
>
> I say 40 hours after building the similar lapstrake rowboat "Cartoon
> 5" in 40 manhours. It lacks a degree of fit and finish, but it still
> is a great rowboat.
>
> Here is a photo album of that build...
>
>http://community.webshots.com/album/360982713bZwutE
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 11:40 AM, Peter <pvanderwaart@...> wrote:
5" in 40 manhours. It lacks a degree of fit and finish, but it still
is a great rowboat.
Here is a photo album of that build...
http://community.webshots.com/album/360982713bZwutE
>I say 40 hours after building the similar lapstrake rowboat "Cartoon
>
>
> > Then, after you had built the frame & station
> > bulkheads, and templates made of the expanded strakes,
> > I am willing to
> > bet you could churn out a second boat in 40 hours or even faster.
>
> I'm not a builder, even as an amateur, but that seems pretty optimistic to, even if you leave out the time required to obtain the materials, sharpen the tools, etc.
>
5" in 40 manhours. It lacks a degree of fit and finish, but it still
is a great rowboat.
Here is a photo album of that build...
http://community.webshots.com/album/360982713bZwutE
> Then, after you had built the frame & stationI'm not a builder, even as an amateur, but that seems pretty optimistic to, even if you leave out the time required to obtain the materials, sharpen the tools, etc.
> bulkheads, and templates made of the expanded strakes,
> I am willing to
> bet you could churn out a second boat in 40 hours or even faster.
Thanks a lot Dennis, I saved this link in my file
of notes about boats.
It looks like he has a lot of information about
basics in design and safety issues. It looks like it will be helpful when
considering tinkering with a boat plan you will build for yourself, even if you
aren't planning on selling it for a profit.
Since this group seems to attract people who love
to tinker with plans, with the intent of improving them for some specific
purpose, hopefully a lot of people will take advantage of it.
If people find that some of his advice is
ill-judged, I'd like to hear about it. My first impression is the author has a
lot of experience and wants to help people get started on successful
boatbuilding.
Sincerely,
Roger
----- Original Message -----
From: "dennislancaster36" <dennislancaster36@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 10:26 AM
Subject: [bolger] Boat Building
Regulations
>
> This guy has it all, very complete.
>
> Dennis
>
On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 5:30 PM, Walter <walter@...> wrote:
in 60 hours). Then, after you had built the frame & station
bulkheads, and templates made of the expanded strakes, I am willing to
bet you could churn out a second boat in 40 hours or even faster.
> $3,200- $1,000 materials =$2,200 labor. Say 100 hrs labor, probably more . $2,200/100= $22/hr. Good luck.The first one might take 100 hours, (I would take a bet I could do it
in 60 hours). Then, after you had built the frame & station
bulkheads, and templates made of the expanded strakes, I am willing to
bet you could churn out a second boat in 40 hours or even faster.
I have a junebug built 4 years ago for $150 and have used it as a dingy and as a rowboat. It sees a lot of hard duty and has been dropped off the roof of the houseboat to the hard and repaired easily. It was made from 4 sheets of luan, the inside floor glassed as was the bottom. I was aiming for $100 and 50 lbs but the glassing and paint brought it up to the $150 mark and about 65 lbs. it is bare minimum with no seats or built in flotation. The two rowing stations are great and is very comfortable with a kit box to sit on for rowing and the passenger uses a short beach chair. If I was to do it again I would build in the flotation chambers as seats. it is also a great cartopper and has seen lots of miles, launches and bodies of water.
Right now I am building a Flint from Ross Lillistone and hopefully this will be my dingy and new rowing craft. regards Paul of the Happy Adventure bolger #481
Right now I am building a Flint from Ross Lillistone and hopefully this will be my dingy and new rowing craft. regards Paul of the Happy Adventure bolger #481
Thanks for the attachments, Bill.
I like your just right finish.
Mark
On Apr 26, 2011, at 8:27 PM, Bill Howard wrote:
<DSCN0207.JPG><IMG_0785.JPG><DSCF3110.JPG>On Apr 26, 2011, at 10:36 PM, Mark Albanese wrote:
A four megabyte email message? Oh; three pictures of a June Bug. One of them 3600 by 2700 pixels plus.
Please, have a thought for people receiving group messages by email; post images to the 'Photos' Section and put a link in your posting.
Thank you
Derek
Please, have a thought for people receiving group messages by email; post images to the 'Photos' Section and put a link in your posting.
Thank you
Derek
Quit! Quit!
Having built a Spur II, I was thinking more along the lines of: If
that boat can sell for $3,200 then I should quit my day job and start
building lapstrake rowboats for profit.
Now doubt, a beauty. Where are your pix?
On Apr 26, 2011, at 2:33 PM, Bill Howard wrote:
> My June Bug cost $2,700 in 2007.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, BruceHallman <hallman@...> wrote:
>$3,200- $1,000 materials =$2,200 labor. Say 100 hrs labor, probably more . $2,200/100= $22/hr. Good luck.
> On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 2:00 AM, Mark Albanese <marka97203@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > $3,200 for a rowboat?
> > >
> > Well, you know it, Bruce, "If you have to ask..."
>
> Having built a Spur II, I was thinking more along the lines of: If
> that boat can sell for $3,200 then I should quit my day job and start
> building lapstrake rowboats for profit.
>
My June Bug cost $2,700 in 2007.
See attached.
Bill
Part of the issue with the dinghy is it has to be a goldplater and it
has to live out in the SE AK climate year around, though it looks like
we have covering in the winter whipped. $250 of that $1100 is in high
end paints. I normally use free exterior latex from the local paint store.
HJ
has to live out in the SE AK climate year around, though it looks like
we have covering in the winter whipped. $250 of that $1100 is in high
end paints. I normally use free exterior latex from the local paint store.
HJ
On 4/26/2011 11:23 AM, BruceHallman wrote:
>> I am up to around $1100 much to my horror
> Consider the option to expensive wood. The longevity of my boats
> doesn't need to be eternal. My luaun plywood/HomeDepot lumber boats
> have lasted at least ten years, longer if stored in a dry place.
> Costs of a Spur II
>
> 6 sheets of luaun plywood = $150
> Framing lumber = $50
> Glass, epoxy = $150
> Sandpaper, and misc. = $150
>
> $500 for materials in a Spur II
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
> I am up to around $1100 much to my horrorConsider the option to expensive wood. The longevity of my boats
doesn't need to be eternal. My luaun plywood/HomeDepot lumber boats
have lasted at least ten years, longer if stored in a dry place.
Costs of a Spur II
6 sheets of luaun plywood = $150
Framing lumber = $50
Glass, epoxy = $150
Sandpaper, and misc. = $150
$500 for materials in a Spur II
I am building a 15'6" work skiff as a dinghy for a Classic yacht I
skipper. I am doing it for the cost of materials, and I am up to around
$1100 much to my horror and that is with my throwing in the yellow cedar
and spruce dimensional lumber for free.
HJ
skipper. I am doing it for the cost of materials, and I am up to around
$1100 much to my horror and that is with my throwing in the yellow cedar
and spruce dimensional lumber for free.
HJ
On 4/26/2011 8:44 AM, dennislancaster36 wrote:
> You hit the nail right on the head Bob..... that is the way it is in boat building. Somewhere I have a link to a web site that states the specifics about the legal issues of boat building. If you are selling a boat that you built, its "buyer beware", if you even try to sell "boats" that you have built for profit as a professional, then you need to be coast guard certified and licensed. Its serious stuff, you can be held liable if someone who buys your boat gets injured due to failure of that boat.
>
> Nothing to stop me from building a boat for a friend for material costs. Just for the joy of building....
>
> Dennis
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "RSS"<otter55806@...> wrote:
>> What all amateur builder of anything, not just boats, learn is that no one thinks they should have to pay you for your time. That is one of the definitions of amateur; "a person who does something for pleasure rather than pay". To any buyer it is a "homemade" item. It doesn't help to say it is custom built either. They will ask who made and when they find out you did it reverts back to homemade. If you got yourself licensed as a boat yard and give yourself a company name now you are a professional, not an amateur. Same quality of building, but somehow people are more confident of something build by a professional rather than an amateur and expect to pay for his or her time. That's just the way it is folks. If you build boats for fun don't expect to make a profit on them when/if you decide to sell:)
>> Bob
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>
Here it is:http://newboatbuilders.com/pages/index2.html
This guy has it all, very complete.
Dennis
This guy has it all, very complete.
Dennis
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "dennislancaster36" <dennislancaster36@...> wrote:
>
> You hit the nail right on the head Bob..... that is the way it is in boat building. Somewhere I have a link to a web site that states the specifics about the legal issues of boat building. If you are selling a boat that you built, its "buyer beware", if you even try to sell "boats" that you have built for profit as a professional, then you need to be coast guard certified and licensed. Its serious stuff, you can be held liable if someone who buys your boat gets injured due to failure of that boat.
>
> Nothing to stop me from building a boat for a friend for material costs. Just for the joy of building....
>
> Dennis
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "RSS" <otter55806@> wrote:
> >
> > What all amateur builder of anything, not just boats, learn is that no one thinks they should have to pay you for your time. That is one of the definitions of amateur; "a person who does something for pleasure rather than pay". To any buyer it is a "homemade" item. It doesn't help to say it is custom built either. They will ask who made and when they find out you did it reverts back to homemade. If you got yourself licensed as a boat yard and give yourself a company name now you are a professional, not an amateur. Same quality of building, but somehow people are more confident of something build by a professional rather than an amateur and expect to pay for his or her time. That's just the way it is folks. If you build boats for fun don't expect to make a profit on them when/if you decide to sell:)
> > Bob
> >
> >
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John and Kathy Trussell" <jtrussell2@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I am currently building a Beach Pea which is about the same size and
> > > complexity as a Spur. I'm using marine grade Meranti plywood, mahogany, and
> > > epoxy. By the time you figure the cost of materials for the boat and
> > > building jig, I will have about $800-900 in the boat. I know that my boat
> > > building skills are not superb and that it takes me longer to build than it
> > > would take a professional (they don't have to spend time correcting the
> > > mistakes I make!). Nonetheless, there is a lot of labor time in building a
> > > boat like this and that time (even my time) has some value. Then there is
> > > the matter of oars ($200 plus from Shew and Tenney). Was a trailer included?
> > > They are not free.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Now everything has two prices-what the buyer will pay and what the seller
> > > will take. You can certainly buy a used john boat with motor and trailer or
> > > a variety of used sailboats for $3200. But if you want a decent row boat,
> > > there are not that many options and they will all cost you. Or you can build
> > > your own, discount the labor and enjoy the boat for the cost of materials.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > JohnT
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _____
> > >
> > > From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> > > Mark Albanese
> > > Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 5:00 AM
> > > To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: Re: [bolger] Spur II on craigslist
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > $3,200 for a rowboat?
> > > >
> > > Well, you know it, Bruce, "If you have to ask..."
> > >
> >
>
You hit the nail right on the head Bob..... that is the way it is in boat building. Somewhere I have a link to a web site that states the specifics about the legal issues of boat building. If you are selling a boat that you built, its "buyer beware", if you even try to sell "boats" that you have built for profit as a professional, then you need to be coast guard certified and licensed. Its serious stuff, you can be held liable if someone who buys your boat gets injured due to failure of that boat.
Nothing to stop me from building a boat for a friend for material costs. Just for the joy of building....
Dennis
Nothing to stop me from building a boat for a friend for material costs. Just for the joy of building....
Dennis
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "RSS" <otter55806@...> wrote:
>
> What all amateur builder of anything, not just boats, learn is that no one thinks they should have to pay you for your time. That is one of the definitions of amateur; "a person who does something for pleasure rather than pay". To any buyer it is a "homemade" item. It doesn't help to say it is custom built either. They will ask who made and when they find out you did it reverts back to homemade. If you got yourself licensed as a boat yard and give yourself a company name now you are a professional, not an amateur. Same quality of building, but somehow people are more confident of something build by a professional rather than an amateur and expect to pay for his or her time. That's just the way it is folks. If you build boats for fun don't expect to make a profit on them when/if you decide to sell:)
> Bob
>
>
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John and Kathy Trussell" <jtrussell2@> wrote:
> >
> > I am currently building a Beach Pea which is about the same size and
> > complexity as a Spur. I'm using marine grade Meranti plywood, mahogany, and
> > epoxy. By the time you figure the cost of materials for the boat and
> > building jig, I will have about $800-900 in the boat. I know that my boat
> > building skills are not superb and that it takes me longer to build than it
> > would take a professional (they don't have to spend time correcting the
> > mistakes I make!). Nonetheless, there is a lot of labor time in building a
> > boat like this and that time (even my time) has some value. Then there is
> > the matter of oars ($200 plus from Shew and Tenney). Was a trailer included?
> > They are not free.
> >
> >
> >
> > Now everything has two prices-what the buyer will pay and what the seller
> > will take. You can certainly buy a used john boat with motor and trailer or
> > a variety of used sailboats for $3200. But if you want a decent row boat,
> > there are not that many options and they will all cost you. Or you can build
> > your own, discount the labor and enjoy the boat for the cost of materials.
> >
> >
> >
> > JohnT
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> > Mark Albanese
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 5:00 AM
> > To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [bolger] Spur II on craigslist
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > $3,200 for a rowboat?
> > >
> > Well, you know it, Bruce, "If you have to ask..."
> >
>
On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 2:00 AM, Mark Albanese <marka97203@...> wrote:
that boat can sell for $3,200 then I should quit my day job and start
building lapstrake rowboats for profit.
>Having built a Spur II, I was thinking more along the lines of: If
>
>
> > $3,200 for a rowboat?
> >
> Well, you know it, Bruce, "If you have to ask..."
that boat can sell for $3,200 then I should quit my day job and start
building lapstrake rowboats for profit.
What all amateur builder of anything, not just boats, learn is that no one thinks they should have to pay you for your time. That is one of the definitions of amateur; "a person who does something for pleasure rather than pay". To any buyer it is a "homemade" item. It doesn't help to say it is custom built either. They will ask who made and when they find out you did it reverts back to homemade. If you got yourself licensed as a boat yard and give yourself a company name now you are a professional, not an amateur. Same quality of building, but somehow people are more confident of something build by a professional rather than an amateur and expect to pay for his or her time. That's just the way it is folks. If you build boats for fun don't expect to make a profit on them when/if you decide to sell:)
Bob
Bob
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John and Kathy Trussell" <jtrussell2@...> wrote:
>
> I am currently building a Beach Pea which is about the same size and
> complexity as a Spur. I'm using marine grade Meranti plywood, mahogany, and
> epoxy. By the time you figure the cost of materials for the boat and
> building jig, I will have about $800-900 in the boat. I know that my boat
> building skills are not superb and that it takes me longer to build than it
> would take a professional (they don't have to spend time correcting the
> mistakes I make!). Nonetheless, there is a lot of labor time in building a
> boat like this and that time (even my time) has some value. Then there is
> the matter of oars ($200 plus from Shew and Tenney). Was a trailer included?
> They are not free.
>
>
>
> Now everything has two prices-what the buyer will pay and what the seller
> will take. You can certainly buy a used john boat with motor and trailer or
> a variety of used sailboats for $3200. But if you want a decent row boat,
> there are not that many options and they will all cost you. Or you can build
> your own, discount the labor and enjoy the boat for the cost of materials.
>
>
>
> JohnT
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> Mark Albanese
> Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 5:00 AM
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Spur II on craigslist
>
>
>
>
>
> > $3,200 for a rowboat?
> >
> Well, you know it, Bruce, "If you have to ask..."
>
On 4/25/2011 5:26 PM, BruceHallman wrote:Why is the boat in the picture listing slightly , is that from the large fenders?
I am currently building a Beach Pea which is about the same size and complexity as a Spur. I’m using marine grade Meranti plywood, mahogany, and epoxy. By the time you figure the cost of materials for the boat and building jig, I will have about $800-900 in the boat. I know that my boat building skills are not superb and that it takes me longer to build than it would take a professional (they don’t have to spend time correcting the mistakes I make!). Nonetheless, there is a lot of labor time in building a boat like this and that time (even my time) has some value. Then there is the matter of oars ($200 plus from Shew and Tenney). Was a trailer included? They are not free.
Now everything has two prices—what the buyer will pay and what the seller will take. You can certainly buy a used john boat with motor and trailer or a variety of used sailboats for $3200. But if you want a decent row boat, there are not that many options and they will all cost you. Or you can build your own, discount the labor and enjoy the boat for the cost of materials.
JohnT
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:
bolger@yahoogroups.com ]On Behalf OfMark Albanese
Sent:Tuesday, April 26, 2011 5:00
AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject:Re: [bolger] Spur II on
craigslist
>
$3,200 for a rowboat?
>Well, you know it, Bruce, "If you have to ask..."
> $3,200 for a rowboat?Well, you know it, Bruce, "If you have to ask..."
>
Yeah, by "slightly modified", I mean that the interior fit-out
(decking/seating) is changed from PCB design. I think you are right
about the listing slightly, that boat is actually very light weight.
I see he has his on a trailer, where I treated my Spur II as a
cartopper. $3,200 for a rowboat?
(decking/seating) is changed from PCB design. I think you are right
about the listing slightly, that boat is actually very light weight.
I see he has his on a trailer, where I treated my Spur II as a
cartopper. $3,200 for a rowboat?
On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 11:24 AM, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Bruce
>
> I am presuming that the modification is the movable seating like that on Chrystal as opposed to the fixed seats like your cartoon 5? I think yours are better looking, especialy for a boat that has good looks as one of its salient features. I can't tell but it appears to be strip planked smooth rather then lapstrake?
>
> Why is the boat in the picture listing slightly , is that from the large fenders?
>
> HJ
>
> On 4/25/2011 6:50 AM, BruceHallman wrote:
>
> Here is a slightly modified Spur II with for sale on craigslist...
>
>
>http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/boa/2343609500.html
>
Bruce
I am presuming that the modification is the movable seating like that on Chrystal as opposed to the fixed seats like your cartoon 5? I think yours are better looking, especialy for a boat that has good looks as one of its salient features. I can't tell but it appears to be strip planked smooth rather then lapstrake?
Why is the boat in the picture listing slightly , is that from the large fenders?
HJ
I am presuming that the modification is the movable seating like that on Chrystal as opposed to the fixed seats like your cartoon 5? I think yours are better looking, especialy for a boat that has good looks as one of its salient features. I can't tell but it appears to be strip planked smooth rather then lapstrake?
Why is the boat in the picture listing slightly , is that from the large fenders?
HJ
On 4/25/2011 6:50 AM, BruceHallman wrote:Here is a slightly modified Spur II with for sale on craigslist...
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/boa/2343609500.html
Here is a slightly modified Spur II with for sale on craigslist...
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/boa/2343609500.html
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/boa/2343609500.html