Re: Wyoming in Aluminum.......Your Thoughts?
Pyper,
Sounds like an interesting idea.
Let me know if you get serious about this - I might be able to help you modify the scantlings, short of producing plans. From what I read, 3/16 might be about the thinnest you could weld with ease and little distortion, but your shop might have a different opinion. I think you'll be looking at 5000 series.
I think I would probably approach it from the skin inwards, providing structure to provide fairness and prevent oil-canning, and see if the weights fall in line with something reasonable for the design.
I think you'd also want to consider the intended use for the boat.
BTW, I'm an MSME (aerospace, really), and just a hacker boatbuilder.
Gregg Carlson
Sounds like an interesting idea.
Let me know if you get serious about this - I might be able to help you modify the scantlings, short of producing plans. From what I read, 3/16 might be about the thinnest you could weld with ease and little distortion, but your shop might have a different opinion. I think you'll be looking at 5000 series.
I think I would probably approach it from the skin inwards, providing structure to provide fairness and prevent oil-canning, and see if the weights fall in line with something reasonable for the design.
I think you'd also want to consider the intended use for the boat.
BTW, I'm an MSME (aerospace, really), and just a hacker boatbuilder.
Gregg Carlson
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "fluffylamb" <fluffylamb@...> wrote:
>
> Am considering building a Wyoming as a replacement for a summer cottage. Yes, I now know where to get the plans, and yes, I now know they will be sent out. Thanks Ms. Altenburger!
>
> Im a woodworker, a Wyoming in wood is possible.
>
> However I will likely have no boathouse. I would like the craft to last...and frankly, low maintenance is a good thing for me.
>
> There is a great aluminum fabricator in our area (southern Ontario). If the cost was not too astronomical Id consider the basic hull, or even hull and superstructure in aluminum. Cost may be astronomial. I would have to investigate.
>
> But other than the cost question......this 51 foot x 8 foot craft in aluminum....your thoughts??? Thanks!
>
> a.l.pyper
>
Many thanks for all the thoughtful posts. Very helpful.
Any further input is likewise appreciated.
On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 7:31 AM, daschultz2000
<daschultz8275@...> wrote:
such a big job unless there was some assurances that the project would
actually be built.
<daschultz8275@...> wrote:
> IMO doing something as big as Wyoming in any other medium requires some professional engineering.Most any boat designer worth their salt would be reluctant to take on
such a big job unless there was some assurances that the project would
actually be built.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "fluffylamb" <fluffylamb@...> wrote:
Source for that work may be PB&F, but she is very engaged in other stuff, and based on conversation here may still have a backlog of commissioned work to do. So maybe Jim Michalak or Reuel Parker, though I'm only aware of wood boats from Parker.
Thinking about it, I've only seen wood from Michalak, but I remember Bolger having consulted with Jim Michalak regarding the mast of the 100' Sir Joseph Banks inter-island freighter in BwaoM. Michalak's training is as an aerospace engineer, so he may quite literally be a rocket scientist, and certainly the best trained engineer home boat building has available.
So, while I think an aluminum Wyoming would be a fabulous, long lived hull, I wouldn't attempt it, w/o professional help.
Building a Wyoming with premium rot resistant woods which to me means the road sign plywood everywhere. The exterior of the hull would be heavily glassed, with multiple layers of cloth. The intercoastals (longitudinal stringers) I might choose cedar in larger sizes than what's specified because it's softer and then I'd also install computer fans w' solar power to keep fresh drying air moving in the bilges between the intercoastals. (Bolger has that space ventilated, I'd just add to it by forcing the air) Then lastly cladding or roofing the topsides with light aluminum just like house siding would yield the kind of life you need.
Wood would be more comfortable because of the insulating qualities.
>IMO doing something as big as Wyoming in any other medium requires some professional engineering. Someone has built a Diablo in aluminum, but it's easy to use other boats to figure out good choices in thickness and stiffeners. Engineering strength sufficient to what Wyoming might need in difficult water is quite another.
> Am considering building a Wyoming as a replacement for a summer cottage..
>.this 51 foot x 8 foot craft in aluminum....your thoughts??? Thanks!
>
> a.l.pyper
>
Source for that work may be PB&F, but she is very engaged in other stuff, and based on conversation here may still have a backlog of commissioned work to do. So maybe Jim Michalak or Reuel Parker, though I'm only aware of wood boats from Parker.
Thinking about it, I've only seen wood from Michalak, but I remember Bolger having consulted with Jim Michalak regarding the mast of the 100' Sir Joseph Banks inter-island freighter in BwaoM. Michalak's training is as an aerospace engineer, so he may quite literally be a rocket scientist, and certainly the best trained engineer home boat building has available.
So, while I think an aluminum Wyoming would be a fabulous, long lived hull, I wouldn't attempt it, w/o professional help.
Building a Wyoming with premium rot resistant woods which to me means the road sign plywood everywhere. The exterior of the hull would be heavily glassed, with multiple layers of cloth. The intercoastals (longitudinal stringers) I might choose cedar in larger sizes than what's specified because it's softer and then I'd also install computer fans w' solar power to keep fresh drying air moving in the bilges between the intercoastals. (Bolger has that space ventilated, I'd just add to it by forcing the air) Then lastly cladding or roofing the topsides with light aluminum just like house siding would yield the kind of life you need.
Wood would be more comfortable because of the insulating qualities.
I've been lurking with interest.
Weston Farmerwrote about"Marine Aluminum"in Chapter 17 of his"From My Old Boat Shop." He wrote this piece before 1979, after 1971.
In Missouri, there are a number of aluminum boat fabricators, making inboard jet boats that travel at high speed in shallow (ankle deep) water.
This company starts with hulls built in Canada.
Gator Boats
A final thought -- take a look at this nice aluminum job:
Sea Lark
-=Grant MacLaren=-
Twilight
Weston Farmerwrote about"Marine Aluminum"in Chapter 17 of his"From My Old Boat Shop." He wrote this piece before 1979, after 1971.
In Missouri, there are a number of aluminum boat fabricators, making inboard jet boats that travel at high speed in shallow (ankle deep) water.
This company starts with hulls built in Canada.
Gator Boats
A final thought -- take a look at this nice aluminum job:
Sea Lark
-=Grant MacLaren=-
Twilight
Copper-nickel (90/10) no maintenance ever. First expense higher than aluminum. But, no maintenance ever! About a tad stronger than and similar in weight to a common steel version.
As for original question, I don't believe Wyo was designed to be as light as it could be so an aluminum version might not weight any more than the ply version. Wood is lighter for the same structural efficiency. It will need bottom paint if kept in the water.
David
As for original question, I don't believe Wyo was designed to be as light as it could be so an aluminum version might not weight any more than the ply version. Wood is lighter for the same structural efficiency. It will need bottom paint if kept in the water.
David
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "fluffylamb" <fluffylamb@...> wrote:
>
> Am considering building a Wyoming as a replacement for a summer cottage. Yes, I now know where to get the plans, and yes, I now know they will be sent out. Thanks Ms. Altenburger!
>
> Im a woodworker, a Wyoming in wood is possible.
>
> However I will likely have no boathouse. I would like the craft to last...and frankly, low maintenance is a good thing for me.
>
> There is a great aluminum fabricator in our area (southern Ontario). If the cost was not too astronomical Id consider the basic hull, or even hull and superstructure in aluminum. Cost may be astronomial. I would have to investigate.
>
> But other than the cost question......this 51 foot x 8 foot craft in aluminum....your thoughts??? Thanks!
>
> a.l.pyper
>
I recently bid on a 35ft plywood with glass over ketch in Florida at twenty thousand dollars the boat was 40 years old and in excellent condition. She sold for $29,000 and had I had the money I would have given the buyer a run for his money. What I am saying is a well built plywood boat is easy to repair if she gets a pungy spot in her and if well built that is not likely to happen. I would rather have the wood as it can be repaired anyplace in the world for a really reasonable price if you shop around. If you are in the north they are cold even when insulated especially if the furniture is also aluminum for strength. The cold travels through the metal. I would investigate throughly if I were you. Having an aluminum boat built is really hazardist because builders have a tendency to do things that cause electrolysis problems. The other thing is unless an archetect does the desighn work you will have problems getting her insured and when you go to sell her she will be worth very little. I would not do it. On a big boat like that I would have her built strictly to Bolgers design You will be thousands ahead in the long run. Doug
On 07/16/2011 09:13 AM, fluffylamb wrote:Am considering building a Wyoming as a replacement for a summer cottage. Yes, I now know where to get the plans, and yes, I now know they will be sent out. Thanks Ms. Altenburger!
Im a woodworker, a Wyoming in wood is possible.
However I will likely have no boathouse. I would like the craft to last...and frankly, low maintenance is a good thing for me.
There is a great aluminum fabricator in our area (southern Ontario). If the cost was not too astronomical Id consider the basic hull, or even hull and superstructure in aluminum. Cost may be astronomial. I would have to investigate.
But other than the cost question......this 51 foot x 8 foot craft in aluminum....your thoughts??? Thanks!
a.l.pyper
Am considering building a Wyoming as a replacement for a summer cottage. Yes, I now know where to get the plans, and yes, I now know they will be sent out. Thanks Ms. Altenburger!
Im a woodworker, a Wyoming in wood is possible.
However I will likely have no boathouse. I would like the craft to last...and frankly, low maintenance is a good thing for me.
There is a great aluminum fabricator in our area (southern Ontario). If the cost was not too astronomical Id consider the basic hull, or even hull and superstructure in aluminum. Cost may be astronomial. I would have to investigate.
But other than the cost question......this 51 foot x 8 foot craft in aluminum....your thoughts??? Thanks!
a.l.pyper
Im a woodworker, a Wyoming in wood is possible.
However I will likely have no boathouse. I would like the craft to last...and frankly, low maintenance is a good thing for me.
There is a great aluminum fabricator in our area (southern Ontario). If the cost was not too astronomical Id consider the basic hull, or even hull and superstructure in aluminum. Cost may be astronomial. I would have to investigate.
But other than the cost question......this 51 foot x 8 foot craft in aluminum....your thoughts??? Thanks!
a.l.pyper