Re: Can you trust pb&f???

>
>
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, BruceHallman hallman@ wrote:
> >
> > On Sat, Aug 27, 2011 at 8:04 AM, joe_mapango
> > ccurtis-keyword-crusing.65bae6@ wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > In some ways I can believe what he is saying. In a smaller way, I

> >
> > They have no duty to you to sell you plans. Get over it. We cannot
> > demand anyone to sell anything.
> >
>
> I'm over it Bruce. As a matter of fact, I don't care. I am able to buy

>
> How pb&f does business says more about them than anything I can ever

>

> Cannot build because of cancer

On Mon Aug 29th, 2011 7:55 AM PDT BruceHallman wrote:

>On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 6:34 AM, pagansg <pagansg@...> wrote:
>
>...pb&f is impossible to contact and will not respond....
>
>Grover,
>
>Please consider that there is a long history of you being rude (and
>mean) to Susanne. So, you should not be surprised at a lack of
>continued response to your incessant pestering.
>
>To be frank, I was shocked to learn that you wrote in October 2010 (I
>quote): "I am going to start a campaign on every internet site I can
>find telling this sorry tale." Stop this vendetta of yours, it has
>gone on far too long. It makes you look very small and pitiful.
>
>That said: I agree this is has been a sad experience for you. It also
>has been sad for Susanne. She has offered a public explanation, and
>publicly extended to you her sympathies to you (in October 2010),
>including a realistic offer for you to start construction of the hull
>using the Flying Cloud plans which are complete. But, you apparently
>have no immediate plans to actually build this boat.
>
>So the only urgency here appears to be your vendetta. I suggest you
>examine your priorities in life and find a little love and empathy.
>Perhaps you might want to help a child build a boat?

On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 6:34 AM, pagansg <pagansg@...> wrote:

...pb&f is impossible to contact and will not respond....

Grover,

Please consider that there is a long history of you being rude (and
mean) to Susanne. So, you should not be surprised at a lack of
continued response to your incessant pestering.

To be frank, I was shocked to learn that you wrote in October 2010 (I
quote): "I am going to start a campaign on every internet site I can
find telling this sorry tale." Stop this vendetta of yours, it has
gone on far too long. It makes you look very small and pitiful.

That said: I agree this is has been a sad experience for you. It also
has been sad for Susanne. She has offered a public explanation, and
publicly extended to you her sympathies to you (in October 2010),
including a realistic offer for you to start construction of the hull
using the Flying Cloud plans which are complete. But, you apparently
have no immediate plans to actually build this boat.

So the only urgency here appears to be your vendetta. I suggest you
examine your priorities in life and find a little love and empathy.
Perhaps you might want to help a child build a boat?

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "pagansg" <pagansg@...> wrote:
>
> Oct 2008 i commissioned pb&f to do plans for small birdwatcher,article in maib displayed and discussed my plans...and yet pb&f refuses to send plans for the boat i commisioned and paid for...and a friend of mine paid 1000s of usd for a commision...but after years of frustration has nothing to show for the investment...from my experience i would advise extteme caution in sending any funds to pb&f,pb&f is impossible to contact and will not respond....it is with great sadness that ii feel compelled to report these
> Painful experiences
> Just an old man here
> Be very careful
>

>
> On Sat, Aug 27, 2011 at 8:04 AM, joe_mapango
> <ccurtis-keyword-crusing.65bae6@...> wrote:
>
> >
> > In some ways I can believe what he is saying. In a smaller way, I have had similar experiences with dealing with B&F. I have faxed, and Emailed a number of times, and never received a response. Only a few months ago I Emailed Phill's wife (Suzanne I think) directly just to ask one question about price, no answer.
>
> They have no duty to you to sell you plans. Get over it. We cannot
> demand anyone to sell anything.
>

On Aug 28, 2011, at 7:20 AM, fluffylamb wrote:

 

I recently received some very useful, lengthy, comments from Ms. Altenburger on my proposals for a Wyoming, either in Fibreglass or Aluminum.

She is obviously a busy person. She took time to give me, gratis, some very useful feedback. I appreciated it.

If someone (Phil) was failing in health would it not be reasonable to suggest some "hiccups" might occur?

When a business is transferred from one person to another, again, would we not expect a few hiccups?

I believe specific complaints/problems should be directed to Ms.Altenburger presonally. In a perfect world these would be resolved.

I suppose its fair to mention what seem the relatively few "deficiencies/oversight" in the long career of PB&F....but to "try in the press" someone now dead, who therefore cannot defend himself (if he wished to do so) and someone attempting to maintain that tradition as best she can under the difficult circumstances of her partners death....seems less than charitable to me.

 

All that being said. A website for the sale of the obviously popular, and in demand plans would seem in order. It would also prevent black market sales and would

surely add to Ms.Altenburgers income.

 

I think the online debate must be painful for Ms.Altenburger, who must follow some of these threads. as she occasionally replies. Would it not be more polite and sensitive to contact her directly, and privately?

 

 

 

 

 

 

> plans published ... in maib.

On Sat Aug 27th, 2011 12:20 PM PDT L wrote:

>Hitler.  Nazis.
>
>Thread Over.  I lose.
>
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law#Corollaries_and_usage
>
>
>
>________________________________
>
>"There are one kinds of people in the universe, those who have trouble forming plurals."
>
>________________________________
>
>
>
>________________________________
>From: joe_mapango <ccurtis-keyword-crusing.65bae6@...>
>To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
>Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 11:04 AM
>Subject: [bolger] Re: Can you trust pb&f???
>
>In some ways I can believe what he is saying.  In a smaller way, I have had similar experiences with dealing with B&F.  I have faxed, and Emailed a number of times, and never received a response.  Only a few months ago I Emailed Phill's wife (Suzanne I think) directly just to ask one question about price, no answer.
>
>I find it sad they refused to do business like everyone else.  The unfortunate part is it has and will make things harder on her, AND keep her from receiving the money she deserves from her late husbands work.
>
>I have spent many hundreds of dollars for plans from Mr Bolger, but neither he or his wife have ever received a dime.  Their OWN actions have made the black market for Phil's used plans the market to work within.  In the future, I expect his plans to only be available via black market.
>
>This is all completely avoidable.  Suzanne could easily commission a webdesign of just one page with plan notes, and pricing.  Nothing complicated, costing less than a few hundred dollars that would allow a perspective buyer to select a plan, print and then fill out a form, and fax, or email it to an address.  I WOULD DO IT FOR FREE if she would make any attempt to communicate.
>
>Unfortunately, he, and now she insist on doing it "their" way at their own loss.  This does not make me happy, but it is the reality and legacy he has left behind.
>
>
>
>--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" <arvent@...> wrote:
>>
>> I would just like to add that I am great admirer of the work of the
>> Tyson family. Always considered I would love to visit them someday. I
>> think their story would be nice to see on WB some day as an example of
>> the Bolger legacy. And have a lot of respect for what Bruce Hallman does
>> as well  and honor his loyalty to PCB&F.
>>
>> As a co-moderator over at the Michalak group I not seen any posts by Mr.
>> Pagan that indicate he is harboring some sort of nefarious agenda. I
>> thought he was only looking f or a small birdwatcher type plan and he
>> has also helped another fellow. He may have a challenge expressing
>> himself well in print perhaps?
>>
>> There are others who have that same challenge and I try to assist if I
>> can.
>>
>> Nels
>>
>> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" <arvent@> wrote:
>> >
>> > I have shared correspondence  with a least 3 others who have had
>> similar
>> > experiences. And I trust what they said.  So do not believe they are
>> all
>> > independently telling the same untruths.
>> >
>> > Most do not even post here any longer. All were stout supporters for
>> > quite a long time. It is very easy to trace back through the post
>> > history if one is interested.
>> >
>> > Also mentioned was  a lack of support when builds did not work out
>> > according to plan of new commissions that were built.
>> >
>> > I also have made several inquires that were never responded to over
>> > several years. But have never sent any money.
>> >
>> > Not casting stones, just saying what I have experienced. And I have
>> also
>> > suggested possible solutions to ease their burden and timely address
>> > them.
>> >
>> > Basically have given up, and turned to other alternatives. Other
>> > designers have picked up the gauntlet and legacy Mr. Bolger blessed us
>> > with.
>> >
>> > Nels
>> >
>> >
>> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Hugo Tyson hhetyson@ wrote:
>> > >
>> > > A personal experience....commissioned a design from PB&F, when?.. so
>> > long ago now but I believe in 2002 for a torpedo runabout. Had a phone
>> > call, very eager to do it, a couple, maybe three letters and 2 more
>> > phone conversations...then nothing..absolutely nothing. Paid a deposit
>> > of $500 (USd) to begin. in 4 - 5 years of waiting didn't even receive
>> a
>> > rough sketch (Cartoon!!?) of the design.
>> > > Â
>> > > Great value for $500! No refund either when I wrote a letter
>> > cancelling the design..probably didn't have anything to cancel. Didn't
>> > receive a reply to the letter either.  Its sad.. Bolger was
>> probably
>> > so oveer-worked by the Navy job.and maybe starting to suffer his
>> > decline..though he sounded like he was still mentally sharp when
>> talking
>> > on the phone.
>> > > Â
>> > > In all honesty he should have said he couldn't do it and refunded
>> the
>> > $500. I like most of his designs, but you know there are other good
>> > designers out there too, up to date, with a good online catalogue
>> > etc.....
>> > > Â
>> > > I fear I would have become an old man waiting for the design (Silver
>> > Blaze...a smaller version of Snow Leopard)
>> > > Â
>> > > The world goes on..and there are many other boats to build!
>> > >
>> > > From: BruceHallman hallman@
>> > > To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
>> > > Sent: Saturday, 27 August 2011 7:16 AM
>> > > Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Can you trust pb&f???
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Â
>> > > > I have though heard of several other similar stories over the last
>> > > > while, so I believe yours.
>> > >
>> > > No. Repeating something over and over doesn't make it true. (Google:
>> > > groupthink.)
>> > >
>> > > Add to this, there is a sense of some issue with Grover Pagan, he
>> has
>> > > been active over at the Michalak group for a month now, and has now
>> > > popped up here. If you look at the whole body of his posts it is
>> easy
>> > > to guess that we are not hearing the full details of what is on his
>> > > mind.
>> > >
>> >
>>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!!  Please!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
>- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
>- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
>- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

On Sat Aug 27th, 2011 12:20 PM PDT L wrote:

>Hitler.  Nazis.
>
>Thread Over.  I lose.
>
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law#Corollaries_and_usage
>
>
>
>________________________________
>
>"There are one kinds of people in the universe, those who have trouble forming plurals."
>
>________________________________
>
>
>
>________________________________
>From: joe_mapango <ccurtis-keyword-crusing.65bae6@...>
>To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
>Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 11:04 AM
>Subject: [bolger] Re: Can you trust pb&f???
>
>In some ways I can believe what he is saying.  In a smaller way, I have had similar experiences with dealing with B&F.  I have faxed, and Emailed a number of times, and never received a response.  Only a few months ago I Emailed Phill's wife (Suzanne I think) directly just to ask one question about price, no answer.
>
>I find it sad they refused to do business like everyone else.  The unfortunate part is it has and will make things harder on her, AND keep her from receiving the money she deserves from her late husbands work.
>
>I have spent many hundreds of dollars for plans from Mr Bolger, but neither he or his wife have ever received a dime.  Their OWN actions have made the black market for Phil's used plans the market to work within.  In the future, I expect his plans to only be available via black market.
>
>This is all completely avoidable.  Suzanne could easily commission a webdesign of just one page with plan notes, and pricing.  Nothing complicated, costing less than a few hundred dollars that would allow a perspective buyer to select a plan, print and then fill out a form, and fax, or email it to an address.  I WOULD DO IT FOR FREE if she would make any attempt to communicate.
>
>Unfortunately, he, and now she insist on doing it "their" way at their own loss.  This does not make me happy, but it is the reality and legacy he has left behind.
>
>
>
>--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" <arvent@...> wrote:
>>
>> I would just like to add that I am great admirer of the work of the
>> Tyson family. Always considered I would love to visit them someday. I
>> think their story would be nice to see on WB some day as an example of
>> the Bolger legacy. And have a lot of respect for what Bruce Hallman does
>> as well  and honor his loyalty to PCB&F.
>>
>> As a co-moderator over at the Michalak group I not seen any posts by Mr.
>> Pagan that indicate he is harboring some sort of nefarious agenda. I
>> thought he was only looking f or a small birdwatcher type plan and he
>> has also helped another fellow. He may have a challenge expressing
>> himself well in print perhaps?
>>
>> There are others who have that same challenge and I try to assist if I
>> can.
>>
>> Nels
>>
>> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" <arvent@> wrote:
>> >
>> > I have shared correspondence  with a least 3 others who have had
>> similar
>> > experiences. And I trust what they said.  So do not believe they are
>> all
>> > independently telling the same untruths.
>> >
>> > Most do not even post here any longer. All were stout supporters for
>> > quite a long time. It is very easy to trace back through the post
>> > history if one is interested.
>> >
>> > Also mentioned was  a lack of support when builds did not work out
>> > according to plan of new commissions that were built.
>> >
>> > I also have made several inquires that were never responded to over
>> > several years. But have never sent any money.
>> >
>> > Not casting stones, just saying what I have experienced. And I have
>> also
>> > suggested possible solutions to ease their burden and timely address
>> > them.
>> >
>> > Basically have given up, and turned to other alternatives. Other
>> > designers have picked up the gauntlet and legacy Mr. Bolger blessed us
>> > with.
>> >
>> > Nels
>> >
>> >
>> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Hugo Tyson hhetyson@ wrote:
>> > >
>> > > A personal experience....commissioned a design from PB&F, when?.. so
>> > long ago now but I believe in 2002 for a torpedo runabout. Had a phone
>> > call, very eager to do it, a couple, maybe three letters and 2 more
>> > phone conversations...then nothing..absolutely nothing. Paid a deposit
>> > of $500 (USd) to begin. in 4 - 5 years of waiting didn't even receive
>> a
>> > rough sketch (Cartoon!!?) of the design.
>> > > Â
>> > > Great value for $500! No refund either when I wrote a letter
>> > cancelling the design..probably didn't have anything to cancel. Didn't
>> > receive a reply to the letter either.  Its sad.. Bolger was
>> probably
>> > so oveer-worked by the Navy job.and maybe starting to suffer his
>> > decline..though he sounded like he was still mentally sharp when
>> talking
>> > on the phone.
>> > > Â
>> > > In all honesty he should have said he couldn't do it and refunded
>> the
>> > $500. I like most of his designs, but you know there are other good
>> > designers out there too, up to date, with a good online catalogue
>> > etc.....
>> > > Â
>> > > I fear I would have become an old man waiting for the design (Silver
>> > Blaze...a smaller version of Snow Leopard)
>> > > Â
>> > > The world goes on..and there are many other boats to build!
>> > >
>> > > From: BruceHallman hallman@
>> > > To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
>> > > Sent: Saturday, 27 August 2011 7:16 AM
>> > > Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Can you trust pb&f???
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Â
>> > > > I have though heard of several other similar stories over the last
>> > > > while, so I believe yours.
>> > >
>> > > No. Repeating something over and over doesn't make it true. (Google:
>> > > groupthink.)
>> > >
>> > > Add to this, there is a sense of some issue with Grover Pagan, he
>> has
>> > > been active over at the Michalak group for a month now, and has now
>> > > popped up here. If you look at the whole body of his posts it is
>> easy
>> > > to guess that we are not hearing the full details of what is on his
>> > > mind.
>> > >
>> >
>>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!!  Please!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
>- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
>- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
>- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

On Sat Aug 27th, 2011 10:13 AM PDT BruceHallman wrote:

>On Sat, Aug 27, 2011 at 8:04 AM, joe_mapango
><ccurtis-keyword-crusing.65bae6@...> wrote:
>
>>
>> In some ways I can believe what he is saying. In a smaller way, I have had similar experiences with dealing with B&F. I have faxed, and Emailed a number of times, and never received a response. Only a few months ago I Emailed Phill's wife (Suzanne I think) directly just to ask one question about price, no answer.
>
>They have no duty to you to sell you plans. Get over it. We cannot
>demand anyone to sell anything.
>
>I see this with a different perspective. Some people feel that there
>is always an obligation of a response to an inquiry.
>
>Speaking of my own life. (I get hundreds of unsolicited emails every
>day. Dozens of phone calls.) I feel that I cannot keep a focus on my
>own life if I always drop what I am thinking about at any given moment
>to pay attention to everyone who is constantly demanding attention of
>me. I try to give people the attention they deserve, but I cannot.
>Especially if I am trying to be creative.
>
>I think this is the same reason that PCB eliminated the use of the
>telephone in the 1980's. The incessant interruptions interfered with
>his creative juice. Personally, I am happy that PCB and PB&F were
>able to devote attention to their spectacular creativity and
>inventions. (Even if this was at a cost of failing occasionally to
>churn out another repetitive Instant Boat. Seriously, Grover Pagan is
>demanding PB&F to design yet another slot top Birdwatcher? That is a
>redundant request, there are already many of that type of boat already
>designed. Both PB&F and Michalak.
>
>It is much preferable that PCB spent the last productive years of his
>life inventing something truly new, like the LCU-F, or the Advanced
>Fisherman class. Do we need even more new Instant Boats? Been there
>- done that - with the Instant Boats.
>
>Also, I would like to read the contractual terms of the so-called
>"commission paid for" of this complaint. Something doesn't ring true.
> I am guessing that any contract for a commission involves payments
>for the various stages of the design, as the design progresses.
>Initial conceptual work would involve one payment, (if that pans out)
>followed by the concept cartoon, (if that pans out) followed by
>additional detail design work of the commission; each with separate
>payments, and each proceeding only after the first was done and
>approved. So, "commission paid for" does not ring true. I think
>there has been some misunderstanding by the complainant here of what
>he was buying.

>
> In some ways I can believe what he is saying. In a smaller way, I have had similar experiences with dealing with B&F. I have faxed, and Emailed a number of times, and never received a response. Only a few months ago I Emailed Phill's wife (Suzanne I think) directly just to ask one question about price, no answer.

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" <arvent@...> wrote:
>
> I would just like to add that I am great admirer of the work of the
> Tyson family. Always considered I would love to visit them someday. I
> think their story would be nice to see on WB some day as an example of
> the Bolger legacy. And have a lot of respect for what Bruce Hallman does
> as well and honor his loyalty to PCB&F.
>
> As a co-moderator over at the Michalak group I not seen any posts by Mr.
> Pagan that indicate he is harboring some sort of nefarious agenda. I
> thought he was only looking f or a small birdwatcher type plan and he
> has also helped another fellow. He may have a challenge expressing
> himself well in print perhaps?
>
> There are others who have that same challenge and I try to assist if I
> can.
>
> Nels
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" <arvent@> wrote:
> >
> > I have shared correspondence with a least 3 others who have had
> similar
> > experiences. And I trust what they said. So do not believe they are
> all
> > independently telling the same untruths.
> >
> > Most do not even post here any longer. All were stout supporters for
> > quite a long time. It is very easy to trace back through the post
> > history if one is interested.
> >
> > Also mentioned was a lack of support when builds did not work out
> > according to plan of new commissions that were built.
> >
> > I also have made several inquires that were never responded to over
> > several years. But have never sent any money.
> >
> > Not casting stones, just saying what I have experienced. And I have
> also
> > suggested possible solutions to ease their burden and timely address
> > them.
> >
> > Basically have given up, and turned to other alternatives. Other
> > designers have picked up the gauntlet and legacy Mr. Bolger blessed us
> > with.
> >
> > Nels
> >
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Hugo Tyson hhetyson@ wrote:
> > >
> > > A personal experience....commissioned a design from PB&F, when?.. so
> > long ago now but I believe in 2002 for a torpedo runabout. Had a phone
> > call, very eager to do it, a couple, maybe three letters and 2 more
> > phone conversations...then nothing..absolutely nothing. Paid a deposit
> > of $500 (USd) to begin. in 4 - 5 years of waiting didn't even receive
> a
> > rough sketch (Cartoon!!?) of the design.
> > > Â
> > > Great value for $500! No refund either when I wrote a letter
> > cancelling the design..probably didn't have anything to cancel. Didn't
> > receive a reply to the letter either. Its sad.. Bolger was
> probably
> > so oveer-worked by the Navy job.and maybe starting to suffer his
> > decline..though he sounded like he was still mentally sharp when
> talking
> > on the phone.
> > > Â
> > > In all honesty he should have said he couldn't do it and refunded
> the
> > $500. I like most of his designs, but you know there are other good
> > designers out there too, up to date, with a good online catalogue
> > etc.....
> > > Â
> > > I fear I would have become an old man waiting for the design (Silver
> > Blaze...a smaller version of Snow Leopard)
> > > Â
> > > The world goes on..and there are many other boats to build!
> > >
> > > From: BruceHallman hallman@
> > > To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Saturday, 27 August 2011 7:16 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Can you trust pb&f???
> > >
> > >
> > > Â
> > > > I have though heard of several other similar stories over the last
> > > > while, so I believe yours.
> > >
> > > No. Repeating something over and over doesn't make it true. (Google:
> > > groupthink.)
> > >
> > > Add to this, there is a sense of some issue with Grover Pagan, he
> has
> > > been active over at the Michalak group for a month now, and has now
> > > popped up here. If you look at the whole body of his posts it is
> easy
> > > to guess that we are not hearing the full details of what is on his
> > > mind.
> > >
> >
>

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" <arvent@...> wrote:

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" <arvent@...> wrote:
>
> I have shared correspondence with a least 3 others who have had
similar
> experiences. And I trust what they said. So do not believe they are
all
> independently telling the same untruths.
>
> Most do not even post here any longer. All were stout supporters for
> quite a long time. It is very easy to trace back through the post
> history if one is interested.
>
> Also mentioned was a lack of support when builds did not work out
> according to plan of new commissions that were built.
>
> I also have made several inquires that were never responded to over
> several years. But have never sent any money.
>
> Not casting stones, just saying what I have experienced. And I have
also
> suggested possible solutions to ease their burden and timely address
> them.
>
> Basically have given up, and turned to other alternatives. Other
> designers have picked up the gauntlet and legacy Mr. Bolger blessed us
> with.
>
> Nels
>
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Hugo Tyson hhetyson@ wrote:
> >
> > A personal experience....commissioned a design from PB&F, when?.. so
> long ago now but I believe in 2002 for a torpedo runabout. Had a phone
> call, very eager to do it, a couple, maybe three letters and 2 more
> phone conversations...then nothing..absolutely nothing. Paid a deposit
> of $500 (USd) to begin. in 4 - 5 years of waiting didn't even receive
a
> rough sketch (Cartoon!!?) of the design.
> > Â
> > Great value for $500! No refund either when I wrote a letter
> cancelling the design..probably didn't have anything to cancel. Didn't
> receive a reply to the letter either. Its sad.. Bolger was
probably
> so oveer-worked by the Navy job.and maybe starting to suffer his
> decline..though he sounded like he was still mentally sharp when
talking
> on the phone.
> > Â
> > In all honesty he should have said he couldn't do it and refunded
the
> $500. I like most of his designs, but you know there are other good
> designers out there too, up to date, with a good online catalogue
> etc.....
> > Â
> > I fear I would have become an old man waiting for the design (Silver
> Blaze...a smaller version of Snow Leopard)
> > Â
> > The world goes on..and there are many other boats to build!
> >
> > From: BruceHallman hallman@
> > To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Saturday, 27 August 2011 7:16 AM
> > Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Can you trust pb&f???
> >
> >
> > Â
> > > I have though heard of several other similar stories over the last
> > > while, so I believe yours.
> >
> > No. Repeating something over and over doesn't make it true. (Google:
> > groupthink.)
> >
> > Add to this, there is a sense of some issue with Grover Pagan, he
has
> > been active over at the Michalak group for a month now, and has now
> > popped up here. If you look at the whole body of his posts it is
easy
> > to guess that we are not hearing the full details of what is on his
> > mind.
> >
>

--- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Hugo Tyson <hhetyson@...> wrote:
>
> A personal experience....commissioned a design from PB&F, when?.. so long ago now but I believe in 2002 for a torpedo runabout. Had a phone call, very eager to do it, a couple, maybe three letters and 2 more phone conversations...then nothing..absolutely nothing. Paid a deposit of $500 (USd) to begin. in 4 - 5 years of waiting didn't even receive a rough sketch (Cartoon!!?) of the design.
>  
> Great value for $500! No refund either when I wrote a letter cancelling the design..probably didn't have anything to cancel. Didn't receive a reply to the letter either.  Its sad.. Bolger was probably so oveer-worked by the Navy job.and maybe starting to suffer his decline..though he sounded like he was still mentally sharp when talking on the phone.
>  
> In all honesty he should have said he couldn't do it and refunded the $500. I like most of his designs, but you know there are other good designers out there too, up to date, with a good online catalogue etc.....
>  
> I fear I would have become an old man waiting for the design (Silver Blaze...a smaller version of Snow Leopard)
>  
> The world goes on..and there are many other boats to build!
>
> From: BruceHallman hallman@...
> To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, 27 August 2011 7:16 AM
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Can you trust pb&f???
>
>
>  
> > I have though heard of several other similar stories over the last
> > while, so I believe yours.
>
> No. Repeating something over and over doesn't make it true. (Google:
> groupthink.)
>
> Add to this, there is a sense of some issue with Grover Pagan, he has
> been active over at the Michalak group for a month now, and has now
> popped up here. If you look at the whole body of his posts it is easy
> to guess that we are not hearing the full details of what is on his
> mind.
>

On Fri Aug 26th, 2011 2:16 PM PDT BruceHallman wrote:

>> I have though heard of several other similar stories over the last
>> while, so I believe yours.
>
>
>No. Repeating something over and over doesn't make it true. (Google:
>groupthink.)
>
>Add to this, there is a sense of some issue with Grover Pagan, he has
>been active over at the Michalak group for a month now, and has now
>popped up here. If you look at the whole body of his posts it is easy
>to guess that we are not hearing the full details of what is on his
>mind.

> I have though heard of several other similar stories over the last
> while, so I believe yours.

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "pagansg" <pagansg@...> wrote:
>
> Oct 2008 i commissioned pb&f to do plans for small birdwatcher,article
in maib displayed and discussed my plans...and yet pb&f refuses to send
plans for the boat i commisioned and paid for...and a friend of mine
paid 1000s of usd for a commision...but after years of frustration has
nothing to show for the investment...from my experience i would advise
extteme caution in sending any funds to pb&f,pb&f is impossible to
contact and will not respond....it is with great sadness that ii feel
compelled to report these
> Painful experiences
> Just an old man here
> Be very careful
>