Re: Micro Bow Modification
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, <masonsmith@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> To Myles's note about putting an
> "inflated section" under the Micro
> bow-my only thought about quieting the
> sound at anchor has been to give her a
> shallow vee section for the first two or
> three feet of her length, perhaps by
> fitting twisting plywood panels between
> the chines and the lower edges of the
> keel, tapering to the flat bottom under
> water. Or by gluing on rigid foam,
> shaping it and glassing it? This would
> not compromise the design much and could
> be compared to the bow pad PB&F designed
> for the same purpose on the Birdwatchers
> and certainly to other designs in which
> rockered flat bottoms are given "false"
> vee entries. But would it work all that
> well, and why not just decide to love
> the sound of water (amplified through
> thin, tensioned plywood)?
>
Now those things would make great reflectors at night and can be shaped..hmmm--- OnFri, 10/14/11, Scot Mc Pherson<scot.mcpherson@...>wrote: |
Scot McPherson, CISSP, MCSA
McPherson Family Farms
Le Claire, IA, USA
On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 9:35 AM, Rex White<rnwhitejr@...>wrote:
How about a Jackson Brown CD ?
--- OnFri, 10/14/11,masonsmith@...<masonsmith@...>wrote:
From:masonsmith@...<masonsmith@...>
Subject: [bolger] Re: Micro Bow Modification
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, October 14, 2011, 9:09 AM
To Myles’s note about putting an “inflated section” under the Micro bow—my only thought about quieting the sound at anchor has been to give her a shallow vee section for the first two or three feet of her length, perhaps by fitting twisting plywood panels between the chines and the lower edges of the keel, tapering to the flat bottom under water. Or by gluing on rigid foam, shaping it and glassing it? This would not compromise the design much and could be compared to the bow pad PB&F designed for the same purpose on the Birdwatchers and certainly to other designs in which rockered flat bottoms are given “false” vee entries. But would it work all that well, and why not just decide to love the sound of water (amplified through thin, tensioned plywood)?
How about a Jackson Brown CD ?--- OnFri, 10/14/11, masonsmith@...<masonsmith@...>wrote: |
To Myles’s note about putting an “inflated section” under the Micro bow—my only thought about quieting the sound at anchor has been to give her a shallow vee section for the first two or three feet of her length, perhaps by fitting twisting plywood panels between the chines and the lower edges of the keel, tapering to the flat bottom under water. Or by gluing on rigid foam, shaping it and glassing it? This would not compromise the design much and could be compared to the bow pad PB&F designed for the same purpose on the Birdwatchers and certainly to other designs in which rockered flat bottoms are given “false” vee entries. But would it work all that well, and why not just decide to love the sound of water (amplified through thin, tensioned plywood)?
On Oct 14, 2011, at 2:02 AM, Harry James wrote:You understand that 90% complete means there is 90% still to go.
HJ
On 10/13/2011 6:56 PM, Kendall wrote:
> Thanks for all the help. I'll just leave it as is. I'm heading out tomorrow to go pick it up. I'll post my progress on finishing it out as I work through it. From the pictures it appears to be about 85% complete or so.
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "MylesJ. Swift"<mswift@...> wrote:
>> Wasn't somebody putting an inflated section under the bow for quite
>> sleeping? A pointy bow by itself won't make a change, it is the slap
>> against the flat bottom. I've seen some shots of a Micro that had a pointed
>> bow and was restructured to carry a vee almost to midship. I thought it
>> looked bad and I can't think that it works well with the full keel approach.
>>
>>
>>
>> Myles J. Swift
>>
>> Computer Assistance Inc.
>>
>> Helping Independent Auto/Truck Shops Since 1978
>>
>> Voice 541-895-3347
>>
>>www.computerassistance.com
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
From:Harry James <welshman@...>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent:Friday, October 14, 2011 1:02 AM
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: Micro Bow Modification
HJ
On 10/13/2011 6:56 PM, Kendall wrote:
> Thanks for all the help. I'll just leave it as is. I'm heading out tomorrow to go pick it up. I'll post my progress on finishing it out as I work through it. From the pictures it appears to be about 85% complete or so.
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "MylesJ. Swift"<mswift@...> wrote:
>> Wasn't somebody putting an inflated section under the bow for quite
>> sleeping? A pointy bow by itself won't make a change, it is the slap
>> against the flat bottom. I've seen some shots of a Micro that had a pointed
>> bow and was restructured to carry a vee almost to midship. I thought it
>> looked bad and I can't think that it works well with the full keel approach.
>>
>>
>>
>> Myles J. Swift
>>
>> Computer Assistance Inc.
>>
>> Helping Independent Auto/Truck Shops Since 1978
>>
>> Voice 541-895-3347
>>
>>www.computerassistance.com
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
HJ
On 10/13/2011 6:56 PM, Kendall wrote:
> Thanks for all the help. I'll just leave it as is. I'm heading out tomorrow to go pick it up. I'll post my progress on finishing it out as I work through it. From the pictures it appears to be about 85% complete or so.
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "MylesJ. Swift"<mswift@...> wrote:
>> Wasn't somebody putting an inflated section under the bow for quite
>> sleeping? A pointy bow by itself won't make a change, it is the slap
>> against the flat bottom. I've seen some shots of a Micro that had a pointed
>> bow and was restructured to carry a vee almost to midship. I thought it
>> looked bad and I can't think that it works well with the full keel approach.
>>
>>
>>
>> Myles J. Swift
>>
>> Computer Assistance Inc.
>>
>> Helping Independent Auto/Truck Shops Since 1978
>>
>> Voice 541-895-3347
>>
>> www.computerassistance.com
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "MylesJ. Swift" <mswift@...> wrote:
>
> Wasn't somebody putting an inflated section under the bow for quite
> sleeping? A pointy bow by itself won't make a change, it is the slap
> against the flat bottom. I've seen some shots of a Micro that had a pointed
> bow and was restructured to carry a vee almost to midship. I thought it
> looked bad and I can't think that it works well with the full keel approach.
>
>
>
> Myles J. Swift
>
> Computer Assistance Inc.
>
> Helping Independent Auto/Truck Shops Since 1978
>
> Voice 541-895-3347
>
> www.computerassistance.com
>
>I've seen some shots of a Micro that had a pointed bow and was"Oink", a Navigator, in NZ? (Pics in the groups)
> restructured to carry a vee almost to midship.
Wasn’t somebody putting an inflated section under the bow for quite sleeping? A pointy bow by itself won’t make a change, it is the slap against the flat bottom. I’ve seen some shots of a Micro that had a pointed bow and was restructured to carry a vee almost to midship. I thought it looked bad and I can’t think that it works well with the full keel approach.
Myles J. Swift
Computer Assistance Inc.
Helping Independent Auto/Truck Shops Since 1978
Voice 541-895-3347
www.computerassistance.com
> Anyhow, maybe that applies to the micro, too. IE, mason's right--don't mess with it. It's part of a well-thought out system.This is extra true for a design like the Micro which has been built,
>
> Also, as for pointing the bow of a micro... I'd apply the exact same comment: don't mess with the vision of the guy
proven and tested, a hundred times.
Phil Bolger usually got things right when he designed boats, not
always, but usually. On the prototype 'first build' of any design of
his you could expect to find and fix a bug or two. But on a design
like Micro, you can rest assured that all the bugs have been fixed,
and building exactly per plans will work.
Anyhow, maybe that applies to the micro, too. IE, mason's right--don't mess with it. It's part of a well-thought out system.
Also, as for pointing the bow of a micro... I'd apply the exact same comment: don't mess with the vision of the guy who was one of the world's great sharpie designers. Visually it would be like putting one of those fake Bentley grilles on a Porsche 356. The reason the flat sides work (visually) is because of the vertical sides and transom and the flat on the bow. All the elements are in balance--there's art happening. Bolger had a design vocabulary that was deeper and broader than anybody else I can think of. If you pointed it it would look horrible, ass-heavy, and plywood-y.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, <masonsmith@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> I concur with Bruce that "bow slap"
> isn't a problem and you say the reasons
> for pointing the bow would be mostly
> cosmetic. My sense is that a pointed bow
> would have a negative esthetic effect.
> The boat is awfully nice as it is, and
> the esthetic change needed is in the eye
> of any beholder (and they are legion)
> who says different. What's so cute about
> Micro? Well, for one thing, the profile
> view with plumb ends and masts at both
> extremities. That aspect would be
> destroyed by carrying the sides forward
> past the mainmast. Esthetically it is
> important (in my eye) to paint a
> slightly sheering waterline above the
> bottom paint, and probably dark
> topsides, somehow to accentuate the
> horizontal. Otherwise the boat is,
> granted, pretty homely on a trailer.
> Otherwise, handsome is as handsome does.
>
> All the same, I have not
> ever camped aboard my Micro enough
> nights in succession to learn to sleep
> well through the bottom slap, which is
> troublesome even in the slightest
> ripple. I don't care, really, but if I
> were to make any modification to Micro
> it might be something to divert wavelets
> so they don't cluck so loudly against
> that flat bottom. Nothing reasonable
> comes to mind. Some old long-johns full
> of planer-shavings suspended over that
> square bow? -Mason
>
>
>
> And while I am at it, anent
> my new Micro mast. I have the clear
> spruce in hand and have looked into
> doing it birdsmouth but there's one
> problem: The designed taper brings the
> diameter down to an inch and a half at
> masthead. If you make the staves a
> reasonable thickness for a good
> birdsmouth at the wider parts, where it
> is 3.5" in diameter, and this means
> about an inch thick, what happens at the
> masthead? Taper the staves in thickness?
> Reduce the birdsmouth accordingly? No,
> no thanks. I think you would need to
> make the mast much thicker than designed
> up there and when it's all glued up
> plane it down. That rather spoils the
> fun and the wood-efficiency of
> birdsmouth construction. So I think I
> will be making my mast just as Phil
> proposes in the plans. Comments most
> welcome. ---Mason
>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent:Wednesday, October 12, 2011 8:10 AM
Subject:[bolger] Re: Micro Bow Modification
> the bottom slap, which is troublesome even in the slightest ripple.I don't know why is it called 'bow slap'. To me the sound is best
described as gurgling water, or splashing water. That is an inherent
natural sound while near water. If the sound of splashing water is
bothersome while being near water, then you have a big problem when
boat cruising.
I know someone who has a 'white noise' machine in the city intended to
drown out nighttime city noise, which plays back the recorded sound of
gurgling water. Go figure!
What other sounds are bothersome, the call of seagulls? That sound
does bother some people. Personally the sounds that bother me are the
unnatural sounds, sirens, jet skis, or perhaps the sound of metal
clanking of steel halyard clips on hollow aluminum masts. Different
noises bother people differently.
I concur with Bruce that “bow slap” isn’t a problem and you say the reasons for pointing the bow would be mostly cosmetic. My sense is that a pointed bow would have a negative esthetic effect. The boat is awfully nice as it is, and the esthetic change needed is in the eye of any beholder (and they are legion) who says different. What’s so cute about Micro? Well, for one thing, the profile view with plumb ends and masts at both extremities. That aspect would be destroyed by carrying the sides forward past the mainmast. Esthetically it is important (in my eye) to paint a slightly sheering waterline above the bottom paint, and probably dark topsides, somehow to accentuate the horizontal. Otherwise the boat is, granted, pretty homely on a trailer. Otherwise, handsome is as handsome does.
All the same, I have not ever camped aboard my Micro enough nights in succession to learn to sleep well through the bottom slap, which is troublesome even in the slightest ripple. I don’t care, really, but if I were to make any modification to Micro it might be something to divert wavelets so they don’t cluck so loudly against that flat bottom. Nothing reasonable comes to mind. Some old long-johns full of planer-shavings suspended over that square bow? –Mason
And while I am at it, anent my new Micro mast. I have the clear spruce in hand and have looked into doing it birdsmouth but there’s one problem: The designed taper brings the diameter down to an inch and a half at masthead. If you make the staves a reasonable thickness for a good birdsmouth at the wider parts, where it is 3.5” in diameter, and this means about an inch thick, what happens at the masthead? Taper the staves in thickness? Reduce the birdsmouth accordingly? No, no thanks. I think you would need to make the mast much thicker than designed up there and when it’s all glued up plane it down. That rather spoils the fun and the wood-efficiency of birdsmouth construction. So I think I will be making my mast just as Phil proposes in the plans. Comments most welcome. ---Mason
>I can guess at the answer to your question giving my personal opinion.
>
>
> I've noticed a few people have modified the bow of the Micro to bring it to a point. If you've made this modification I would love to know your thoughts on how it's affected the sailing. Did it completely eliminate the bow slap and was it worth it? I've just bought a 80% complete Micro Navigator and I'm considering doing the bow mod. Thanks in advance.
>
The bottom of the Micro is deeply curved. Hence, the portion at the
bow is above the waterline 99.9+% of the time, so any pointy bow
modification would have no water effect 99.9+% of the time, in essence
being cosmetic.
As to 'bow slap', I own a Micro and can say that it is has never been
an issue for me.