Re: Introduction and 23.5 ft light schooner
Holy cow!
A suit of sails for the LS from Payson are $1400! Then add the cost of
spars and all the strings AND a trailer to carry it all in!
Located in Austin TX I assume. Too far away for me.
Nels
A suit of sails for the LS from Payson are $1400! Then add the cost of
spars and all the strings AND a trailer to carry it all in!
Located in Austin TX I assume. Too far away for me.
Nels
Hi Frank
I, too, have seen boats being cartwheeled downwind in an uncontrolled
manner and far out of reach of the crew. Mostly these have been
catamarans when the trampoline was enough sail area to launch them into
the air, but a light weight beamy skiff could also behave like that in
enough breeze. The times I have observed this is with a violent front
with gusts well over 40 knots- luckily I was on a much larger boat at
the time. I think the point needs to be made though about lightweight
and beamy boats like cats and skiffs which are much more likely to
behave like this. The schooner is narrow and long - a sharpie - so has
much more in the water and relatively less windage. Such a boat needs
much greater force to lift it out of the water. Furthermore our schooner
(and the Scamp) have ballast.. in our case a 45 kg steel centreplate...
which reduces the risk again.
Of course if there are severe enough conditions then any boat will be
picked up and tossed about- I well remember the photos of trawlers a few
kilometeres inland after cyclone Tracy hit Darwin in 1974. There's
nothing you can do about that except not be there.
Cheers
Peter
I, too, have seen boats being cartwheeled downwind in an uncontrolled
manner and far out of reach of the crew. Mostly these have been
catamarans when the trampoline was enough sail area to launch them into
the air, but a light weight beamy skiff could also behave like that in
enough breeze. The times I have observed this is with a violent front
with gusts well over 40 knots- luckily I was on a much larger boat at
the time. I think the point needs to be made though about lightweight
and beamy boats like cats and skiffs which are much more likely to
behave like this. The schooner is narrow and long - a sharpie - so has
much more in the water and relatively less windage. Such a boat needs
much greater force to lift it out of the water. Furthermore our schooner
(and the Scamp) have ballast.. in our case a 45 kg steel centreplate...
which reduces the risk again.
Of course if there are severe enough conditions then any boat will be
picked up and tossed about- I well remember the photos of trawlers a few
kilometeres inland after cyclone Tracy hit Darwin in 1974. There's
nothing you can do about that except not be there.
Cheers
Peter
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, frank raisin <pfrankr@...> wrote:
>
>
> hi peter - i'm an ozzie too - with a skiff (16 - bit of a handful
singlehanded!) - anyway the only time i had problems with its (minimal)
bouyancy arrangements was on Shepparton lake which wasn't big enough to
sail it dry before we had to tack, and the water flowed back over the
gunnale .....
>
> in other classes (like moth, gwen, IC) i remember vowing that the one
thing i'd hang onto to the last would be the mainsheet (about the only
chance really - tiller, boat etc offerred no grip like it) - and that
would collapse the sail if one haD rolled in to w/ward and the whole
affair was taking off downwind like a portugese man o' war in a gale.
its a real sinking feeling watching that! i defy any swimmer (short of
kieran perkins) to catch a capsized boat floating high on its side in a
good breeze and with its rig to windward .
>
> incidentally , i am particularly concerned about boats like the Scamp
in this regard. the saving grace there being that the boat is unlikely
to capsize to windward (except broaching to leeward in breaking seas)
and the crew is probably not sitting out but ensconsed in the cockpit
anyway.
>
> ah well, life's rich tapestry ....
>
> cheers,
> frank
>
>
>
>
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> From: pkortlucke@...
> Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2011 01:03:18 +0000
> Subject: [bolger] Re: side-tank bouyancy
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> None of these things were ever a problem the times we did capsize it.
The buoyant masts and resistance of the sails largely prevented turtling
giving plenty of time to reach the board, the centerboard was in easy
reach and as we only ever sailed it in conditions less than 35 knots we
never experienced conditions that could pick up 250 kg of boat and blow
it away like a balloon. With respect to getting back into the righted
boat we used one person on the centreboard to right it while another
crew member crawled into the capsized cockpit and came up with the boat.
We did also have a line amidships with a loop that allowed fairly easy
access.
> I suppose all the experience we had repeatedly capsizing overpowered
Aussie Skiffs in the 70's stood us in good stead The schooner with side
tanks was an easy proposition.
> Cheers
> Peter
>
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, frank raisin pfrankr@ wrote:
> >
> >
> > re side-tank bouyancy ...
> >
> > nice to come up nearly dry IF .......
> >
> > - if you can get back into the righted boat (needs good agility
and/or upper body strength)
> > - if you can reach the centreboard to right the boat
> > - if the boat hasn't turtled and become impossible to right (it
could be likened to an inverted catamaran)
> > - if you didn't lose contact with the boat and have it blow away
like a baloon
> >
> > good luck,
> >
> > frank {half a century in (and out of!) small boats cruising and
racing}
> >
> > ps. the side decks don't have to be enclosed as tanks for some of
the above disadvantages to apply
> >
> > pps. you could fit a screw hatch in the side deck to allow flooding
whilst sailing - merely have it on to fold and unfold the boat
> >
> >
> >
>
hi peter - i'm an ozzie too - with a skiff (16 - bit of a handful singlehanded!) - anyway the only time i had problems with its (minimal) bouyancy arrangements was on Shepparton lake which wasn't big enough to sail it dry before we had to tack, and the water flowed back over the gunnale .....
in other classes (like moth, gwen, IC) i remember vowing that the one thing i'd hang onto to the last would be the mainsheet (about the only chance really - tiller, boat etc offerred no grip like it) - and that would collapse the sail if one haD rolled in to w/ward and the whole affair was taking off downwind like a portugese man o' war in a gale. its a real sinking feeling watching that! i defy any swimmer (short of kieran perkins) to catch a capsized boat floating high on its side in a good breeze and with its rig to windward .
incidentally , i am particularly concerned about boats like the Scamp in this regard. the saving grace there being that the boat is unlikely to capsize to windward (except broaching to leeward in breaking seas) and the crew is probably not sitting out but ensconsed in the cockpit anyway.
ah well, life's rich tapestry ....
cheers,
frank
To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
From: pkortlucke@...
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2011 01:03:18 +0000
Subject: [bolger] Re: side-tank bouyancy
None of these things were ever a problem the times we did capsize it. The buoyant masts and resistance of the sails largely prevented turtling giving plenty of time to reach the board, the centerboard was in easy reach and as we only ever sailed it in conditions less than 35 knots we never experienced conditions that could pick up 250 kg of boat and blow it away like a balloon. With respect to getting back into the righted boat we used one person on the centreboard to right it while another crew member crawled into the capsized cockpit and came up with the boat. We did also have a line amidships with a loop that allowed fairly easy access.
I suppose all the experience we had repeatedly capsizing overpowered Aussie Skiffs in the 70's stood us in good stead
The schooner with side tanks was an easy proposition.
Cheers
Peter
in other classes (like moth, gwen, IC) i remember vowing that the one thing i'd hang onto to the last would be the mainsheet (about the only chance really - tiller, boat etc offerred no grip like it) - and that would collapse the sail if one haD rolled in to w/ward and the whole affair was taking off downwind like a portugese man o' war in a gale. its a real sinking feeling watching that! i defy any swimmer (short of kieran perkins) to catch a capsized boat floating high on its side in a good breeze and with its rig to windward .
incidentally , i am particularly concerned about boats like the Scamp in this regard. the saving grace there being that the boat is unlikely to capsize to windward (except broaching to leeward in breaking seas) and the crew is probably not sitting out but ensconsed in the cockpit anyway.
ah well, life's rich tapestry ....
cheers,
frank
To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
From: pkortlucke@...
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2011 01:03:18 +0000
Subject: [bolger] Re: side-tank bouyancy
None of these things were ever a problem the times we did capsize it. The buoyant masts and resistance of the sails largely prevented turtling giving plenty of time to reach the board, the centerboard was in easy reach and as we only ever sailed it in conditions less than 35 knots we never experienced conditions that could pick up 250 kg of boat and blow it away like a balloon. With respect to getting back into the righted boat we used one person on the centreboard to right it while another crew member crawled into the capsized cockpit and came up with the boat. We did also have a line amidships with a loop that allowed fairly easy access.
I suppose all the experience we had repeatedly capsizing overpowered Aussie Skiffs in the 70's stood us in good stead
The schooner with side tanks was an easy proposition.Cheers
Peter
--- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, frank raisin <pfrankr@...> wrote:
>
>
> re side-tank bouyancy ...
>
> nice to come up nearly dry IF .......
>
> - if you can get back into the righted boat (needs good agility and/or upper body strength)
> - if you can reach the centreboard to right the boat
> - if the boat hasn't turtled and become impossible to right (it could be likened to an inverted catamaran)
> - if you didn't lose contact with the boat and have it blow away like a baloon
>
> good luck,
>
> frank {half a century in (and out of!) small boats cruising and racing}
>
> ps. the side decks don't have to be enclosed as tanks for some of the above disadvantages to apply
>
> pps. you could fit a screw hatch in the side deck to allow flooding whilst sailing - merely have it on to fold and unfold the boat
>
>
>
The ideal performance crew size for the light schooner is 5 people. 1 on the tiller, 1 one the mainsail, 1 on the jib, 1 one the mizzen, and finally 1 on the staysail if you are using it. That's perfect for my family. I can put my 6 year old on the staysail which will only get used on long and lazy reaches.
No gaff schooner points very well, so that's just a given there. Just means more tacks, but it also means down wind and reaching is very efficient. As far as each tack being more work? Not really unless you are using the staysail which need to be taken in and hauled back up each tack, but then again, that's not what the staysail is for. It's for catching just a few more feet of wind on a reach when the wind is gentle.
Scot McPherson
McPherson Family Farms
Le Claire, IA USA
Sent from my iPhoneOn Oct 16, 2011, at 12:55 AM, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
Designed for a large crew, you have to keep them busy.
HJ
On 10/15/2011 8:17 PM, sirdarnell wrote:
> tacking that boat must be a lot of work.
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, BruceHallman<hallman@...> wrote:
>>> I suppose all the experience we had repeatedly capsizing overpowered ...
>> I recall at the top of this thread was the "wish list" for a Light
>> Schooner for weekend fun for a family of 5. That gets me thinking
>> about fun for a group with ten hands, and the top of that list for me
>> is Seth's Macinko's Naval Jelly Galley! I really would love to see
>> that boat in action, as that is one Bolger boat that very much looks
>> overpowered and exciting...
>>
>>http://www.hallman.org/bolger/NJG/
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
Designed for a large crew, you have to keep them busy.
HJ
HJ
On 10/15/2011 8:17 PM, sirdarnell wrote:
> tacking that boat must be a lot of work.
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, BruceHallman<hallman@...> wrote:
>>> I suppose all the experience we had repeatedly capsizing overpowered ...
>> I recall at the top of this thread was the "wish list" for a Light
>> Schooner for weekend fun for a family of 5. That gets me thinking
>> about fun for a group with ten hands, and the top of that list for me
>> is Seth's Macinko's Naval Jelly Galley! I really would love to see
>> that boat in action, as that is one Bolger boat that very much looks
>> overpowered and exciting...
>>
>>http://www.hallman.org/bolger/NJG/
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
tacking that boat must be a lot of work.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, BruceHallman <hallman@...> wrote:
>
> > I suppose all the experience we had repeatedly capsizing overpowered ...
>
> I recall at the top of this thread was the "wish list" for a Light
> Schooner for weekend fun for a family of 5. That gets me thinking
> about fun for a group with ten hands, and the top of that list for me
> is Seth's Macinko's Naval Jelly Galley! I really would love to see
> that boat in action, as that is one Bolger boat that very much looks
> overpowered and exciting...
>
>http://www.hallman.org/bolger/NJG/
>
Scott, i sail a folding schooner, a lot of fun and a lot of room. with a family of five you should be able to paddle up or down stream like a war canoe! The FS is designed for up to a 4HP motor by Mr. Bolger. I have a 5HP on mine and she really scoots at about half throttle (this includes towing a light schooner at the time). this family of sailboats is big on little resistance through the water, no problem for three boys and some paddles. i did not build any side decking as to not take away and cargo/crew room and have been quite satisfied with her performance over 600 miles cruising up the Texas coast. Best of luck with your build. Breaux --- OnFri, 10/14/11, Scot McPherson<scot.mcpherson@...>wrote:
|
Doesn't require one, trailerable. I believe it is carried down to
the beach by the crew.
HJ
HJ
On 10/14/2011 6:31 AM, Scot Mc Pherson wrote:That does look like a fun boat, but I don't have a slip. :)
Scot McPherson, CISSP, MCSA
McPherson Family Farms
Le Claire, IA, USAOn Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 9:22 AM, BruceHallman<hallman@...>wrote:[Attachment(s)from BruceHallman included below]> I suppose all the experience we had repeatedly capsizing overpowered ...
I recall at the top of this thread was the "wish list" for a Light
Schooner for weekend fun for a family of 5. That gets me thinking
about fun for a group with ten hands, and the top of that list for me
is Seth's Macinko's Naval Jelly Galley! I really would love to see
that boat in action, as that is one Bolger boat that very much looks
overpowered and exciting...
http://www.hallman.org/bolger/NJG/
Well I have cartopped my boats before, but that one, no thank you....I don't think I could cartop my 23 light schooner either to be honest.
Scot McPherson, CISSP, MCSA
McPherson Family Farms
Le Claire, IA, USA
On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 10:14 AM, BruceHallman<hallman@...>wrote:On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 7:31 AM, Scot Mc PhersonSeth built one (actually two). Didn't get to launch the second one,
<scot.mcpherson@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> That does look like a fun boat, but I don't have a slip. :)
>
(long story), but he did keep it and trailer it for 1,000 miles before
donating it to a good cause. That Naval Jelly Galley is a very light
weight, quick to build Instant boat and could live on almost any
trailer. Outrageously, (with teenage boys to help lift it) it could
even be car-topped on an a vehicle. The sails are the biggest piece
of work, (with each being a different shape), but they could be done
prototype out of PolyTarp.
On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 7:31 AM, Scot Mc Pherson
<scot.mcpherson@...> wrote:
(long story), but he did keep it and trailer it for 1,000 miles before
donating it to a good cause. That Naval Jelly Galley is a very light
weight, quick to build Instant boat and could live on almost any
trailer. Outrageously, (with teenage boys to help lift it) it could
even be car-topped on an a vehicle. The sails are the biggest piece
of work, (with each being a different shape), but they could be done
prototype out of PolyTarp.
<scot.mcpherson@...> wrote:
>Seth built one (actually two). Didn't get to launch the second one,
>
>
> That does look like a fun boat, but I don't have a slip. :)
>
(long story), but he did keep it and trailer it for 1,000 miles before
donating it to a good cause. That Naval Jelly Galley is a very light
weight, quick to build Instant boat and could live on almost any
trailer. Outrageously, (with teenage boys to help lift it) it could
even be car-topped on an a vehicle. The sails are the biggest piece
of work, (with each being a different shape), but they could be done
prototype out of PolyTarp.
That does look like a fun boat, but I don't have a slip. :)
Scot McPherson, CISSP, MCSA
McPherson Family Farms
Le Claire, IA, USA
On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 9:22 AM, BruceHallman<hallman@...>wrote:[Attachment(s)from BruceHallman included below]> I suppose all the experience we had repeatedly capsizing overpowered ...
I recall at the top of this thread was the "wish list" for a Light
Schooner for weekend fun for a family of 5. That gets me thinking
about fun for a group with ten hands, and the top of that list for me
is Seth's Macinko's Naval Jelly Galley! I really would love to see
that boat in action, as that is one Bolger boat that very much looks
overpowered and exciting...
http://www.hallman.org/bolger/NJG/
> I suppose all the experience we had repeatedly capsizing overpowered ...I recall at the top of this thread was the "wish list" for a Light
Schooner for weekend fun for a family of 5. That gets me thinking
about fun for a group with ten hands, and the top of that list for me
is Seth's Macinko's Naval Jelly Galley! I really would love to see
that boat in action, as that is one Bolger boat that very much looks
overpowered and exciting...
http://www.hallman.org/bolger/NJG/
None of these things were ever a problem the times we did capsize it. The buoyant masts and resistance of the sails largely prevented turtling giving plenty of time to reach the board, the centerboard was in easy reach and as we only ever sailed it in conditions less than 35 knots we never experienced conditions that could pick up 250 kg of boat and blow it away like a balloon. With respect to getting back into the righted boat we used one person on the centreboard to right it while another crew member crawled into the capsized cockpit and came up with the boat. We did also have a line amidships with a loop that allowed fairly easy access.
I suppose all the experience we had repeatedly capsizing overpowered Aussie Skiffs in the 70's stood us in good stead The schooner with side tanks was an easy proposition.
Cheers
Peter
--- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, frank raisin <pfrankr@...> wrote:
>
>
> re side-tank bouyancy ...
>
> nice to come up nearly dry IF .......
>
> - if you can get back into the righted boat (needs good agility and/or upper body strength)
> - if you can reach the centreboard to right the boat
> - if the boat hasn't turtled and become impossible to right (it could be likened to an inverted catamaran)
> - if you didn't lose contact with the boat and have it blow away like a baloon
>
> good luck,
>
> frank {half a century in (and out of!) small boats cruising and racing}
>
> ps. the side decks don't have to be enclosed as tanks for some of the above disadvantages to apply
>
> pps. you could fit a screw hatch in the side deck to allow flooding whilst sailing - merely have it on to fold and unfold the boat
>
>
>
Well, I won't be installing a motor any time soon, and perhaps I ought not to. We are a canoeing family after all, and canoe to and from our campsite anyway which is about 20 miles upriver. So....I think perhaps converting the motor well into hatched stern stowage as well as the bow and center console for lack of better word. I think that would provide the reduction of ballast from the motor and provide _quite_ a bit of added boyancy as well.
I have plenty of paddles, and could carve some designed for more comfortable paddling or rowing this particular vessel.
Thoughts?
Scot McPherson
McPherson Family Farms
Le Claire, IA USA
Sent from my iPhoneOn Oct 13, 2011, at 4:36 PM, "pkortlucke" <pkortlucke@...> wrote:
I'd second the comments about capsize and side decks- my Folding Schooner had buoyancy tanks along both sides so she came up from a capsize with next to no water in it. Also for 5 crew the light schooner might be a little small.Link to photos of my modified 30 ft Folding Schooner.
Interesting when my brother wrote to Phil Bolger a few years ago with photos and descriptions of modifications like the buoyancy tanks (which allow folding/unfolding in the water) he wrote back strongly endorsing them and stating that he would include them if he ever updated the plans, which sadly will now never happen.
Cheers
Peter
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
>
> Here is Jon's LS on Jon's web site
>
>http://www.kolbsadventures.com/light_schooner_1.htm
>
> HJ
>
> On 10/13/2011 11:40 AM, adventures_in_astrophotography wrote:
> > If you box in the cockpits to make wide side decks, as I did on my cat-schooner version, the boat will not ship any water in a knockdown. I've only done that once, but because of the wide side decks, she popped right back up and none of us got wet. The decks also provide convenient, nearly dry stowage for camping gear. I built cockpit walls with cutouts for access hatches, but never got around to buying the expensive hatches. It all works quite well with just the framed openings. My cockpits are 25" wide, which is enough for someone to sleep on the floorboards and for a good size cooler to fit atwhartships.
> >
> > Jon
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, BruceHallmanhallman@ wrote:
> >> On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 9:04 AM, Scot Mc Pherson
> >> scot.mcpherson@ wrote:
> >>> This winter I am starting a new sailboat project. I am going to build
> >>> the 23.5 light schooner so my whole family can enjoy sailing at the
> >>> same time, and take it camping for the weekends.
> >>
> >> I haven't personally used a Light Schooner, but I recall reading from
> >> others who have done so that it is an exhilarating boat to sail (and
> >> because of this) is also is the kind of boat that you should expect to
> >> 'get wet' and/or capsize once in a while. Doesn't that work with your
> >> 'whole family-take it camping' desire? BTW, how big is your family?
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
How are the exhaust gas issues with that motor well?
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
>
> Here is Jon's LS on Jon's web site
>
>http://www.kolbsadventures.com/light_schooner_1.htm
re side-tank bouyancy ...
nice to come up nearly dry IF .......
- if you can get back into the righted boat (needs good agility and/or upper body strength)
- if you can reach the centreboard to right the boat
- if the boat hasn't turtled and become impossible to right (it could be likened to an inverted catamaran)
- if you didn't lose contact with the boat and have it blow away like a baloon
good luck,
frank {half a century in (and out of!) small boats cruising and racing}
ps. the side decks don't have to be enclosed as tanks for some of the above disadvantages to apply
pps. you could fit a screw hatch in the side deck to allow flooding whilst sailing - merely have it on to fold and unfold the boat
To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
From: pkortlucke@...
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2011 21:36:46 +0000
Subject: [bolger] Re: Introduction and 23.5 ft light schooner
I'd second the comments about capsize and side decks- my Folding Schooner had buoyancy tanks along both sides so she came up from a capsize with next to no water in it. Also for 5 crew the light schooner might be a little small.
Link to photos of my modified 30 ft Folding Schooner.
Interesting when my brother wrote to Phil Bolger a few years ago with photos and descriptions of modifications like the buoyancy tanks (which allow folding/unfolding in the water) he wrote back strongly endorsing them and stating that he would include them if he ever updated the plans, which sadly will now never happen.
Cheers
Peter
--- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
nice to come up nearly dry IF .......
- if you can get back into the righted boat (needs good agility and/or upper body strength)
- if you can reach the centreboard to right the boat
- if the boat hasn't turtled and become impossible to right (it could be likened to an inverted catamaran)
- if you didn't lose contact with the boat and have it blow away like a baloon
good luck,
frank {half a century in (and out of!) small boats cruising and racing}
ps. the side decks don't have to be enclosed as tanks for some of the above disadvantages to apply
pps. you could fit a screw hatch in the side deck to allow flooding whilst sailing - merely have it on to fold and unfold the boat
To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
From: pkortlucke@...
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2011 21:36:46 +0000
Subject: [bolger] Re: Introduction and 23.5 ft light schooner
I'd second the comments about capsize and side decks- my Folding Schooner had buoyancy tanks along both sides so she came up from a capsize with next to no water in it. Also for 5 crew the light schooner might be a little small.
Link to photos of my modified 30 ft Folding Schooner.
Interesting when my brother wrote to Phil Bolger a few years ago with photos and descriptions of modifications like the buoyancy tanks (which allow folding/unfolding in the water) he wrote back strongly endorsing them and stating that he would include them if he ever updated the plans, which sadly will now never happen.
Cheers
Peter
--- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
>
> Here is Jon's LS on Jon's web site
>
> http://www.kolbsadventures.com/light_schooner_1.htm
>
> HJ
>
> On 10/13/2011 11:40 AM, adventures_in_astrophotography wrote:
> > If you box in the cockpits to make wide side decks, as I did on my cat-schooner version, the boat will not ship any water in a knockdown. I've only done that once, but because of the wide side decks, she popped right back up and none of us got wet. The decks also provide convenient, nearly dry stowage for camping gear. I built cockpit walls with cutouts for access hatches, but never got around to buying the expensive hatches. It all works quite well with just the framed openings. My cockpits are 25" wide, which is enough for someone to sleep on the floorboards and for a good size cooler to fit atwhartships.
> >
> > Jon
> >
> > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, BruceHallmanhallman@ wrote:
> >> On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 9:04 AM, Scot Mc Pherson
> >> scot.mcpherson@ wrote:
> >>> This winter I am starting a new sailboat project. I am going to build
> >>> the 23.5 light schooner so my whole family can enjoy sailing at the
> >>> same time, and take it camping for the weekends.
> >>
> >> I haven't personally used a Light Schooner, but I recall reading from
> >> others who have done so that it is an exhilarating boat to sail (and
> >> because of this) is also is the kind of boat that you should expect to
> >> 'get wet' and/or capsize once in a while. Doesn't that work with your
> >> 'whole family-take it camping' desire? BTW, how big is your family?
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
I'd second the comments about capsize and side decks- my Folding Schooner had buoyancy tanks along both sides so she came up from a capsize with next to no water in it. Also for 5 crew the light schooner might be a little small.
Link to photos of my modified 30 ft Folding Schooner.
Interesting when my brother wrote to Phil Bolger a few years ago with photos and descriptions of modifications like the buoyancy tanks (which allow folding/unfolding in the water) he wrote back strongly endorsing them and stating that he would include them if he ever updated the plans, which sadly will now never happen.
Cheers
Peter
--- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
>
> Here is Jon's LS on Jon's web site
>
> http://www.kolbsadventures.com/light_schooner_1.htm
>
> HJ
>
> On 10/13/2011 11:40 AM, adventures_in_astrophotography wrote:
> > If you box in the cockpits to make wide side decks, as I did on my cat-schooner version, the boat will not ship any water in a knockdown. I've only done that once, but because of the wide side decks, she popped right back up and none of us got wet. The decks also provide convenient, nearly dry stowage for camping gear. I built cockpit walls with cutouts for access hatches, but never got around to buying the expensive hatches. It all works quite well with just the framed openings. My cockpits are 25" wide, which is enough for someone to sleep on the floorboards and for a good size cooler to fit atwhartships.
> >
> > Jon
> >
> > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, BruceHallmanhallman@ wrote:
> >> On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 9:04 AM, Scot Mc Pherson
> >> scot.mcpherson@ wrote:
> >>> This winter I am starting a new sailboat project. I am going to build
> >>> the 23.5 light schooner so my whole family can enjoy sailing at the
> >>> same time, and take it camping for the weekends.
> >>
> >> I haven't personally used a Light Schooner, but I recall reading from
> >> others who have done so that it is an exhilarating boat to sail (and
> >> because of this) is also is the kind of boat that you should expect to
> >> 'get wet' and/or capsize once in a while. Doesn't that work with your
> >> 'whole family-take it camping' desire? BTW, how big is your family?
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 10:56 AM, Scot Mc Pherson
<scot.mcpherson@...> wrote:
"Folding Schooner"? It seems ideally suited for use by a family of 5.
<scot.mcpherson@...> wrote:
>It is your choice of course, but have you also considered the larger
>
>
> Hey Bruce,
> Well we have a family of 5, My wife and I plus three boys, 13, 10 and 6.
"Folding Schooner"? It seems ideally suited for use by a family of 5.
Here is Jon's LS on Jon's web site
http://www.kolbsadventures.com/light_schooner_1.htm
HJ
http://www.kolbsadventures.com/light_schooner_1.htm
HJ
On 10/13/2011 11:40 AM, adventures_in_astrophotography wrote:
> If you box in the cockpits to make wide side decks, as I did on my cat-schooner version, the boat will not ship any water in a knockdown. I've only done that once, but because of the wide side decks, she popped right back up and none of us got wet. The decks also provide convenient, nearly dry stowage for camping gear. I built cockpit walls with cutouts for access hatches, but never got around to buying the expensive hatches. It all works quite well with just the framed openings. My cockpits are 25" wide, which is enough for someone to sleep on the floorboards and for a good size cooler to fit atwhartships.
>
> Jon
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, BruceHallman<hallman@...> wrote:
>> On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 9:04 AM, Scot Mc Pherson
>> <scot.mcpherson@...> wrote:
>>> This winter I am starting a new sailboat project. I am going to build
>>> the 23.5 light schooner so my whole family can enjoy sailing at the
>>> same time, and take it camping for the weekends.
>>
>> I haven't personally used a Light Schooner, but I recall reading from
>> others who have done so that it is an exhilarating boat to sail (and
>> because of this) is also is the kind of boat that you should expect to
>> 'get wet' and/or capsize once in a while. Doesn't that work with your
>> 'whole family-take it camping' desire? BTW, how big is your family?
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
If you box in the cockpits to make wide side decks, as I did on my cat-schooner version, the boat will not ship any water in a knockdown. I've only done that once, but because of the wide side decks, she popped right back up and none of us got wet. The decks also provide convenient, nearly dry stowage for camping gear. I built cockpit walls with cutouts for access hatches, but never got around to buying the expensive hatches. It all works quite well with just the framed openings. My cockpits are 25" wide, which is enough for someone to sleep on the floorboards and for a good size cooler to fit atwhartships.
Jon
Jon
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, BruceHallman <hallman@...> wrote:
>
> On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 9:04 AM, Scot Mc Pherson
> <scot.mcpherson@...> wrote:
> > This winter I am starting a new sailboat project. I am going to build
> > the 23.5 light schooner so my whole family can enjoy sailing at the
> > same time, and take it camping for the weekends.
>
>
> I haven't personally used a Light Schooner, but I recall reading from
> others who have done so that it is an exhilarating boat to sail (and
> because of this) is also is the kind of boat that you should expect to
> 'get wet' and/or capsize once in a while. Doesn't that work with your
> 'whole family-take it camping' desire? BTW, how big is your family?
>
I have a 23.5' Light Schooner on a trailer parked in my back yard. Boat
and trailer are free to anyone wanting it. I built it 20+ years ago.
It is a great boat and is FAST. It would be a great project. The hull
is probably beyond repair (rot from accumulated rain in hull), but
spars & sails have been stored inside and are in very good
condition. Trailer is dirty but only needs new/used tires to be
roadworthy. If you have any questions or would like more info, feel
free to contact me.
Cheers,
Deke
ph 512-258-9798
Cheers,
Deke
ph 512-258-9798
-----Original Message-----
From: BruceHallman
Sent: Oct 13, 2011 11:48 AM
To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Introduction and 23.5 ft light schooner
On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 9:04 AM, Scot Mc Pherson
<scot.mcpherson@...> wrote:
> This winter I am starting a new sailboat project. I am going to build
> the 23.5 light schooner so my whole family can enjoy sailing at the
> same time, and take it camping for the weekends.
I haven't personally used a Light Schooner, but I recall reading from
others who have done so that it is an exhilarating boat to sail (and
because of this) is also is the kind of boat that you should expect to
'get wet' and/or capsize once in a while. Doesn't that work with your
'whole family-take it camping' desire? BTW, how big is your family?
I have a 23.5' Light Schooner on a trailer parked in my back yard. Boat and trailer are free to anyone wanting it. I built it 20+ years ago. It is a great boat and is FAST. It would be a great project. The hull is probably beyond repair (rot from accumulated rain in hull), but spars & sails have been stored inside and are in very good condition. Trailer is dirty but only needs new/used tires to be roadworthy. If you have any questions or would like more info, feel free to contact me.
Cheers,
Deke
ph 512-258-9798
Cheers,
Deke
ph 512-258-9798
-----Original Message-----
From: Scot Mc Pherson
Sent: Oct 13, 2011 12:56 PM
To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Introduction and 23.5 ft light schooner
Hey Bruce,Well we have a family of 5, My wife and I plus three boys, 13, 10 and 6. We are all excellent swimmers, and I make the kids wear life vests whether they like it or not. I won't wear mine, but I'll have it at the ready. I know the danger of not wearing it when capsizing, I have almost knocked myself out when I capsized my racing canoe that I rebuilt. The paddle in hand hit bottom, and my jaw hit it on the way down. So I know the decision I am making for myself. When the kids are adults with children of their own is when they get to chose also.I don't plan on racing the boat, just cruising with it, so we won't be trimming the sails so tightly. Will probably be sailing with jib and reefed mainsail for the first couple times until everyone is comfortable and understands their roles better. I am a fan of holding on to the sheets or having them only one turn around the cleats with hands on to let the sheets out at a moments notice. Winds are also fairly steady here, even if they are a little more turbulent when reaching down into the river valley, but gusts are fairly rare except on days one wouldn't choose to sail on anyway. That's one of the nice things about living deep in the continent. No competing shoreline updrafts to cause frequent seemingly random pressure changes. A steady 8-10 knots is most common.However that is not to say we won't enter races, just that's not her purpose....racing would just be a for fun thing in addition to just getting out and messing about.On my stretch of the mississippi, we have 30 miles between the two lock and dams here, so that's plenty of room for nice day trips.
Scot McPherson, CISSP, MCSA
McPherson Family Farms
Le Claire, IA, USAOn Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 11:48 AM, BruceHallman<hallman@...>wrote:On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 9:04 AM, Scot Mc Pherson
<scot.mcpherson@...> wrote:
> This winter I am starting a new sailboat project. I am going to build
> the 23.5 light schooner so my whole family can enjoy sailing at the
> same time, and take it camping for the weekends.
I haven't personally used a Light Schooner, but I recall reading from
others who have done so that it is an exhilarating boat to sail (and
because of this) is also is the kind of boat that you should expect to
'get wet' and/or capsize once in a while. Doesn't that work with your
'whole family-take it camping' desire? BTW, how big is your family?
Hey Bruce,
Well we have a family of 5, My wife and I plus three boys, 13, 10 and 6. We are all excellent swimmers, and I make the kids wear life vests whether they like it or not. I won't wear mine, but I'll have it at the ready. I know the danger of not wearing it when capsizing, I have almost knocked myself out when I capsized my racing canoe that I rebuilt. The paddle in hand hit bottom, and my jaw hit it on the way down. So I know the decision I am making for myself. When the kids are adults with children of their own is when they get to chose also.
I don't plan on racing the boat, just cruising with it, so we won't be trimming the sails so tightly. Will probably be sailing with jib and reefed mainsail for the first couple times until everyone is comfortable and understands their roles better. I am a fan of holding on to the sheets or having them only one turn around the cleats with hands on to let the sheets out at a moments notice. Winds are also fairly steady here, even if they are a little more turbulent when reaching down into the river valley, but gusts are fairly rare except on days one wouldn't choose to sail on anyway. That's one of the nice things about living deep in the continent. No competing shoreline updrafts to cause frequent seemingly random pressure changes. A steady 8-10 knots is most common.
However that is not to say we won't enter races, just that's not her purpose....racing would just be a for fun thing in addition to just getting out and messing about.
On my stretch of the mississippi, we have 30 miles between the two lock and dams here, so that's plenty of room for nice day trips.
Scot McPherson, CISSP, MCSA
McPherson Family Farms
Le Claire, IA, USA
On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 11:48 AM, BruceHallman<hallman@...>wrote:On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 9:04 AM, Scot Mc Pherson
<scot.mcpherson@...> wrote:
> This winter I am starting a new sailboat project. I am going to build
> the 23.5 light schooner so my whole family can enjoy sailing at the
> same time, and take it camping for the weekends.
I haven't personally used a Light Schooner, but I recall reading from
others who have done so that it is an exhilarating boat to sail (and
because of this) is also is the kind of boat that you should expect to
'get wet' and/or capsize once in a while. Doesn't that work with your
'whole family-take it camping' desire? BTW, how big is your family?
On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 9:04 AM, Scot Mc Pherson
<scot.mcpherson@...> wrote:
others who have done so that it is an exhilarating boat to sail (and
because of this) is also is the kind of boat that you should expect to
'get wet' and/or capsize once in a while. Doesn't that work with your
'whole family-take it camping' desire? BTW, how big is your family?
<scot.mcpherson@...> wrote:
> This winter I am starting a new sailboat project. I am going to buildI haven't personally used a Light Schooner, but I recall reading from
> the 23.5 light schooner so my whole family can enjoy sailing at the
> same time, and take it camping for the weekends.
others who have done so that it is an exhilarating boat to sail (and
because of this) is also is the kind of boat that you should expect to
'get wet' and/or capsize once in a while. Doesn't that work with your
'whole family-take it camping' desire? BTW, how big is your family?
Hi fellas,
Just joined the group and wanted to introduce myself. I have been
sailing on/off for almost 40 years (I am 40 years old). I have done
stupid things like circumnavigating the long island sound in a
sunfish, and sailed morgan 45s in the Eastern Carribean and
Grenadines, travelled the intracoastal waterway once each direction,
windsurfed and all the etc etc etcs of small boating. I grew up on
boats and the water. When I started my family 13 years ago, the whole
boats and water thing kinda went out the porthole, but it's time to
get back. For the last few years I have been buying old beat up
restoration project canoes, and bought snark in pretty bad shape and
fixed her up, but she's really too small for my family if I get in the
boat (I weight 240 and the load limit is 310).
This winter I am starting a new sailboat project. I am going to build
the 23.5 light schooner so my whole family can enjoy sailing at the
same time, and take it camping for the weekends. I can sail to one of
our campsites on the mississippi without having to traverse locks. The
campsite is located in a slough on the river and has docks and so
forth.
I haven't yet had time to start building yet, but it will begin
sometime soon in the next few weeks. After that I would like to begin
working on a george bhueler style cruiser for semi-retirement
sailing/cruising, but that's further down the road.
Nice to be here, and hope to enjoy everyone's advice and comments.
Cheers,
Scot McPherson, CISSP, MCSA
McPherson Family Farms
Le Claire, IA, USA
Just joined the group and wanted to introduce myself. I have been
sailing on/off for almost 40 years (I am 40 years old). I have done
stupid things like circumnavigating the long island sound in a
sunfish, and sailed morgan 45s in the Eastern Carribean and
Grenadines, travelled the intracoastal waterway once each direction,
windsurfed and all the etc etc etcs of small boating. I grew up on
boats and the water. When I started my family 13 years ago, the whole
boats and water thing kinda went out the porthole, but it's time to
get back. For the last few years I have been buying old beat up
restoration project canoes, and bought snark in pretty bad shape and
fixed her up, but she's really too small for my family if I get in the
boat (I weight 240 and the load limit is 310).
This winter I am starting a new sailboat project. I am going to build
the 23.5 light schooner so my whole family can enjoy sailing at the
same time, and take it camping for the weekends. I can sail to one of
our campsites on the mississippi without having to traverse locks. The
campsite is located in a slough on the river and has docks and so
forth.
I haven't yet had time to start building yet, but it will begin
sometime soon in the next few weeks. After that I would like to begin
working on a george bhueler style cruiser for semi-retirement
sailing/cruising, but that's further down the road.
Nice to be here, and hope to enjoy everyone's advice and comments.
Cheers,
Scot McPherson, CISSP, MCSA
McPherson Family Farms
Le Claire, IA, USA