Re: Seabird 86 [1 Attachment]

>
> PCB has often pointed out that raised decks are a) stronger, b)

> headroom for people sitting inside the cabin against the side, and c)
> increase buoyancy and seaworthiness. Raised decks are also found on

> Duff's Stonehorse, some versions of the San Juan 21 and even a Cal 20.
> Unfortunately, a lot of people just don't like the way they look.
>
>
>
> JohnT
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf

> Wayne Gilham
> Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 10:32 PM
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [bolger] Re: Seabird 86 [1 Attachment]
>
>
>
>
>
> [Attachment(s) from Wayne Gilham included below]
>
> Y'know, it's interesting to me that the
> cockpit/deck/cabintop/forward-cockpit, etc etc etc of this SeaBird is

> identical to Bolger's famous and oft-built Black Skimmer-- same

> right to gunwales, nearly same portlights -- but that boat's a
> leeboard-sharpie, thus totally different under-water. AND a cat-yawl,

> totally different rig as well.
>
> (sorry, I haven't reviewed SeaBird's interior accommodations, so can't
> comment on similarities there)
>
> Heck, even the stout tall verticals on the companionway-hatch

> strengthen the foredeck as well as to provide some centerline
> not-quite-headroom, is the same on both!
>
> I owned a Black Skimmer, and found her to be very user-friendly from

> layout -- I'd say Phil "copied" one-to-the-other (no idea which was

> because it was a layout / construction proven to WORK, both for the

> and for the usage.
>
> Wayne Gilham
>
> From:bolger@yahoogroups.com<mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com<mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com> ] On

> Of
> prairiedog2332
> Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2011 8:42 AM
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com<mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [bolger] Re: Seabird 86
>
>
> Yes, Mr. Bolger mentioned it was "tiddly at anchor":-)
> Looking at the drawings on page 254 of BWAM one can visualize why it

> seem cramped. When the berths are rigged there is no space to access

> table and even get to the WC. And they have to be stowed to get access

> the table and the cooking arrangement with is rather awkward as it all
> slides under the cockpit. This boat does fall under the "bed and

> section of the book though.
> The large bilge panels rob a lot of potential storage and living

> of course add to it's seaworthiness. A compromise between it and LM

> the Michalak Picara with narrower bilge panels?
>http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/picara/index.htm
> But Jim makes himself clear that he does not design off-shore boats.

> might be close.
> Nels
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com<mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com> ,

> pvanderwaart@ wrote:
> >
> > PCB wrote somewhere that he had gotten a sail on a Seabird '86.

> before the very nice German boat, so at least two were built.) He said

> was initially tender as might be expected from the narrow waterline,

> sailed in a satisfactory manner.
> >
> > You have to put his remarks in context. He had drawn it thinking in

> of motorsailer, so he wouldn't have expected J-24 performance, and

> hardly have written that the boat was a dog and to be avoided in any

> On the other hand, he and Suzanne put a lot of work into the sloop and
> Navigator versions later, so he must have thought it was pretty

> he certainly would not have gone for the Navigator if he thought it

> carry the weight.
> >
> > Seabird '86 strikes me as a cruising version of Chebacco. The hull

> are similar, and they both have the very practical OB well. The

> of Seabird makes her more forgiving of a helmsman's inattention in a

> PCB tried to be clever about storage for gear and duffle. Any

> cramped inside, especially after a couple days of rain.
> >
> > Seabird makes an interesting contrast to Long Micro. The interior of

> takes advantage of the boxy shape where SB loses volume where the LM

> chine. LM might be faster is a lot of conditions (I gather the rig is
> generous), but much more jarring than SB.
> >
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2012.0.1873 / Virus Database: 2102/4650 - Release Date:

>

>
> PCB wrote somewhere that he had gotten a sail on a Seabird '86. (This was

>
> You have to put his remarks in context. He had drawn it thinking in terms

>
> Seabird '86 strikes me as a cruising version of Chebacco. The hull forms

>
> Seabird makes an interesting contrast to Long Micro. The interior of LM

>

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Peter" <pvanderwaart@...> wrote:
>
> PCB wrote somewhere that he had gotten a sail on a Seabird '86. (This was
before the very nice German boat, so at least two were built.) He said it
was initially tender as might be expected from the narrow waterline, but
sailed in a satisfactory manner.
>
> You have to put his remarks in context. He had drawn it thinking in terms
of motorsailer, so he wouldn't have expected J-24 performance, and he'd
hardly have written that the boat was a dog and to be avoided in any case.
On the other hand, he and Suzanne put a lot of work into the sloop and
Navigator versions later, so he must have thought it was pretty decent. And
he certainly would not have gone for the Navigator if he thought it couldn't
carry the weight.
>
> Seabird '86 strikes me as a cruising version of Chebacco. The hull forms
are similar, and they both have the very practical OB well. The ballast keel
of Seabird makes her more forgiving of a helmsman's inattention in a breeze.
PCB tried to be clever about storage for gear and duffle. Any 22-footer is
cramped inside, especially after a couple days of rain.
>
> Seabird makes an interesting contrast to Long Micro. The interior of LM
takes advantage of the boxy shape where SB loses volume where the LM has the
chine. LM might be faster is a lot of conditions (I gather the rig is
generous), but much more jarring than SB.
>

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.1873 / Virus Database: 2102/4650 - Release Date: 12/01/11

>
> Yes, Mr. Bolger mentioned it was "tiddly at anchor":-)
>
> Looking at the drawings on page 254 of BWAM one can visualize why it
> might seem cramped. When the berths are rigged there is no space to
> access the table and even get to the WC. And they have to be stowed to
> get access to the table and the cooking arrangement with is rather
> awkward as it all slides under the cockpit. This boat does fall under
> the "bed and brakfast" section of the book though.
>
> The large bilge panels rob a lot of potential storage and living
> space, but of course add to it's seaworthiness. A compromise between
> it and LM might be the Michalak Picara with narrower bilge panels?
>
>http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/picara/index.htm
>
> But Jim makes himself clear that he does not design off-shore boats.
> Picara might be close.
>
> Nels
>
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Peter" <pvanderwaart@...> wrote:
> >
> > PCB wrote somewhere that he had gotten a sail on a Seabird '86.
> (This was before the very nice German boat, so at least two were
> built.) He said it was initially tender as might be expected from the
> narrow waterline, but sailed in a satisfactory manner.
> >
> > You have to put his remarks in context. He had drawn it thinking in
> terms of motorsailer, so he wouldn't have expected J-24 performance,
> and he'd hardly have written that the boat was a dog and to be avoided
> in any case. On the other hand, he and Suzanne put a lot of work into
> the sloop and Navigator versions later, so he must have thought it was
> pretty decent. And he certainly would not have gone for the Navigator
> if he thought it couldn't carry the weight.
> >
> > Seabird '86 strikes me as a cruising version of Chebacco. The hull
> forms are similar, and they both have the very practical OB well. The
> ballast keel of Seabird makes her more forgiving of a helmsman's
> inattention in a breeze. PCB tried to be clever about storage for gear
> and duffle. Any 22-footer is cramped inside, especially after a couple
> days of rain.
> >
> > Seabird makes an interesting contrast to Long Micro. The interior of
> LM takes advantage of the boxy shape where SB loses volume where the
> LM has the chine. LM might be faster is a lot of conditions (I gather
> the rig is generous), but much more jarring than SB.
> >
>
>

Yes, Mr. Bolger mentioned it was "tiddly at anchor":-)

Looking at the drawings on page 254 of BWAM one can visualize why it might seem cramped. When the berths are rigged there is no space to access the table and even get to the WC. And they have to be stowed to get access to the table and the cooking arrangement with is rather awkward as it all slides under the cockpit. This boat does fall under the "bed and brakfast" section of the book though.

The large bilge panels rob a lot of potential storage and living space, but of course add to it's seaworthiness. A compromise between it and LM might be the Michalak Picara with narrower bilge panels?

http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/picara/index.htm

But Jim makes himself clear that he does not design off-shore boats. Picara might be close.

Nels

--- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Peter" <pvanderwaart@...> wrote:
>
> PCB wrote somewhere that he had gotten a sail on a Seabird '86. (This was before the very nice German boat, so at least two were built.) He said it was initially tender as might be expected from the narrow waterline, but sailed in a satisfactory manner.
>
> You have to put his remarks in context. He had drawn it thinking in terms of motorsailer, so he wouldn't have expected J-24 performance, and he'd hardly have written that the boat was a dog and to be avoided in any case. On the other hand, he and Suzanne put a lot of work into the sloop and Navigator versions later, so he must have thought it was pretty decent. And he certainly would not have gone for the Navigator if he thought it couldn't carry the weight.
>
> Seabird '86 strikes me as a cruising version of Chebacco. The hull forms are similar, and they both have the very practical OB well. The ballast keel of Seabird makes her more forgiving of a helmsman's inattention in a breeze. PCB tried to be clever about storage for gear and duffle. Any 22-footer is cramped inside, especially after a couple days of rain.
>
> Seabird makes an interesting contrast to Long Micro. The interior of LM takes advantage of the boxy shape where SB loses volume where the LM has the chine. LM might be faster is a lot of conditions (I gather the rig is generous), but much more jarring than SB.
>

One built in Germany. Not sure if the e-mail is still current:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/message/31397

The website is still up and has the same address:

http://www.oocities.org/nohnpages/original.html

He mentioned once that he found it rather cramped for space below decks.

Nels

--- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <sepottschr@...> wrote:
>
> Has anyone heard how bolgers seabird 86 performs? I belive at least one has been built, but have never heard how they liked the design?
>