Re: [bolger] Re: Micro Navigator
Hi, Stefan---I am going to be at the museum for lunch with
this visiting group at 12:30, so if you come along at 1:00 or soon after we can
easily connect. I take it you know the way. When you arrive at the Adirondack
Museum you can wheel into the parking lot. If still at lunch I will be just
across the entrance/exit driveways, downhill a bit, in the conference
building with big log posts supporting the entrance roof. And Pelican is uphill
under the parking deck, on the second level of the parking, towards the right
end.
When I finish lunch I'll come out looking for you. I'll
carry a phone, 518 524 8266, but we can't count on cell service.
If you won't be there quite soon after one, I hope you can
let me know some time before 12:00. Perhaps what I'll do is go over there
earlier, soon,to spend some time with the visiting group in the morning, and cut
out on the rest of their activities after lunch. anygate, it would be nice to
know your ETA if much different from 1:00.
Just got a message from Doc Musekamp who said you had been
considering the Jochems. He and I have been talking about various swaps and
builds. Best---Mason
----- Original Me, ssage -----From:Stefan TopolskiSent:Thursday, November 12, 2009 3:16 PMSubject:Re: [bolger] Re: Micro NavigatorStill planning on this Saturday.
You asked for a reminder - what time would you like? After lunch but well before dusk?Give a call - 413 768 9100 - or let me know how to call you that day.Thanks!
All the Best,Stefan"One gathers peace as a feather in the palm of one's hand." -anonymousOn Nov 10, 2009, at 8:38 AM, Adirondack Goodboat wrote:Mason here. My feeling is that the keel of Micro is enormously strong, strength coming first from its being a thick sandwich of lead and plywood, the plywood constituting tensile skins over the hard core, second from the strong curvature of its uppe r edge where its skins are united to the shoe which follows the rocker and is heavily fastened. The keel cannot bend laterally without coming off the boat at the ends. Also, you'll see that the swinging plate, if anybody ever tries the idea, cannot be very large in area. It has to fit in the shadow of the extant keel when up. This will keep its forward or upper end rather narrow. It could widen toward the bottom end but I think not much, lest it bend.----- Original Message -----From: reddoc000Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 8:48 PMSubject: [bolger] Re: Micro Navigator
> > I have a micro and was considering doing a sort of navigator conversion. I currently have a junk rig on my micro and would not change that to the Chinese Gaff as I am very happy with the Junk Rig.
> >
> > Can you explain how you have found the Navigator? I am concerned that the Micro is very poor to windward - i.e. the lee way it gives is very high particularly in any tidal stream. I have been considering putting some for of lee board on to help reduce the leeway.
> >
> > Any thoughts?
> >
> > Martin
> >
>Re: micro windward performance
I gather the boat is designed to motor into the wind as most sensible people do, but i would love to give up the visuals of an engine hanging off the back. Mason's idea really beats any i've had so far to modify a micro to reduce leeway. Can the keel handle the lateral stress and the torque of such a metal plate bolted onto the keel?
--- In bolger@yahoogroups. com, "adkgoodboat" <masonsmith@ ...> wrote:
>
> Re the question of improving a Micro's windward performance, some of us had a chat on that topic here awhile back. I proposed simply through-bolting a plate alongside the Micro's keel, and rigging a simple pendant for it to run up to the bottom, aft to one of the well-drains, and up to a cleat. Some of the gang seemed to think it a worthwhile experiment. I'm still thinking of it but haven't done it, having so much fun with the Micro as it is. And being full busy. Mason
>
> --- In bolger@yahoogroups. com, "mmer@" <martin.me.roberts@ > wrote:
> >
> > Bruce,
> >
Still planning on this Saturday.
You asked for a reminder - what time would you like? After lunch but well before dusk?
Give a call - 413 768 9100 - or let me know how to call you that day.
Thanks!
All the Best,
All the Best,
Stefan
"One gathers peace as a feather in the palm of one's hand." -anonymous
On Nov 10, 2009, at 8:38 AM, Adirondack Goodboat wrote:
Mason here. My feeling is that the keel of Micro is enormously strong, strength coming first from its being a thick sandwich of lead and plywood, the plywood constituting tensile skins over the hard core, second from the strong curvature of its upper edge where its skins are united to the shoe which follows the rocker and is heavily fastened. The keel cannot bend laterally without coming off the boat at the ends. Also, you'll see that the swinging plate, if anybody ever tries the idea, cannot be very large in area. It has to fit in the shadow of the extant keel when up. This will keep its forward or upper end rather narrow. It could widen toward the bottom end but I think not much, lest it bend.
----- Original Message -----From: reddoc000Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 8:48 PMSubject: [bolger] Re: Micro NavigatorRe: micro windward performance
I gather the boat is designed to motor into the wind as most sensible people do, but i would love to give up the visuals of an engine hanging off the back. Mason's idea really beats any i've had so far to modify a micro to reduce leeway. Can the keel handle the lateral stress and the torque of such a metal plate bolted onto the keel?
--- In bolger@yahoogroups. com, "adkgoodboat" <masonsmith@ ...> wrote:
>
> Re the question of improving a Micro's windward performance, some of us had a chat on that topic here awhile back. I proposed simply through-bolting a plate alongside the Micro's keel, and rigging a simple pendant for it to run up to the bottom, aft to one of the well-drains, and up to a cleat. Some of the gang seemed to think it a worthwhile experiment. I'm still thinking of it but haven't done it, having so much fun with the Micro as it is. And being full busy. Mason
>
> --- In bolger@yahoogroups. com, "mmer@" <martin.me.roberts@ > wrote:
> >
> > Bruce,
> >
> > I have a micro and was considering doing a sort of navigator conversion. I currently have a junk rig on my micro and would not change that to the Chinese Gaff as I am very happy with the Junk Rig.
> >
> > Can you explain how you have found the Navigator? I am concerned that the Micro is very poor to windward - i.e. the lee way it gives is very high particularly in any tidal stream. I have been considering putting some for of lee board on to help reduce the leeway.
> >
> > Any thoughts?
> >
> > Martin
> >
>
Mason here. My feeling is that the keel of Micro is
enormously strong, strength coming first from its being a thick sandwich of lead
and plywood, the plywood constituting tensile skins over the hard core, second
from the strong curvature of its upper edge where its skins are united to the
shoe which follows the rocker and is heavily fastened. The keel cannot bend
laterally without coming off the boat at the ends. Also, you'll see that the
swinging plate, if anybody ever tries the idea, cannot be very large in area. It
has to fit in the shadow of the extant keel when up. This will keep its forward
or upper end rather narrow. It could widen toward the bottom end but I think not
much, lest it bend.
----- Original Message -----From:reddoc000Sent:Monday, November 09, 2009 8:48 PMSubject:[bolger] Re: Micro NavigatorRe: micro windward performance
I gather the boat is designed to motor into the wind as most sensible people do, but i would love to give up the visuals of an engine hanging off the back. Mason's idea really beats any i've had so far to modify a micro to reduce leeway. Can the keel handle the lateral stress and the torque of such a metal plate bolted onto the keel?
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups. com, "adkgoodboat" <masonsmith@ ...> wrote:
>
> Re the question of improving a Micro's windward performance, some of us had a chat on that topic here awhile back. I proposed simply through-bolting a plate alongside the Micro's keel, and rigging a simple pendant for it to run up to the bottom, aft to one of the well-drains, and up to a cleat. Some of the gang seemed to think it a worthwhile experiment. I'm still thinking of it but haven't done it, having so much fun with the Micro as it is. And being full busy. Mason
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups. com, "mmer@" <martin.me.roberts@ > wrote:
> >
> > Bruce,
> >
> > I have a micro and was considering doing a sort of navigator conversion. I currently have a junk rig on my micro and would not change that to the Chinese Gaff as I am very happy with the Junk Rig.
> >
> > Can you explain how you have found the Navigator? I am concerned that the Micro is very poor to windward - i.e. the lee way it gives is very high particularly in any tidal stream. I have been considering putting some for of lee board on to help reduce the leeway.
> >
> > Any thoughts?
> >
> > Martin
> >
>
Re: micro windward performance
I gather the boat is designed to motor into the wind as most sensible people do, but i would love to give up the visuals of an engine hanging off the back. Mason's idea really beats any i've had so far to modify a micro to reduce leeway. Can the keel handle the lateral stress and the torque of such a metal plate bolted onto the keel?
I gather the boat is designed to motor into the wind as most sensible people do, but i would love to give up the visuals of an engine hanging off the back. Mason's idea really beats any i've had so far to modify a micro to reduce leeway. Can the keel handle the lateral stress and the torque of such a metal plate bolted onto the keel?
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "adkgoodboat" <masonsmith@...> wrote:
>
> Re the question of improving a Micro's windward performance, some of us had a chat on that topic here awhile back. I proposed simply through-bolting a plate alongside the Micro's keel, and rigging a simple pendant for it to run up to the bottom, aft to one of the well-drains, and up to a cleat. Some of the gang seemed to think it a worthwhile experiment. I'm still thinking of it but haven't done it, having so much fun with the Micro as it is. And being full busy. Mason
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "mmer@" <martin.me.roberts@> wrote:
> >
> > Bruce,
> >
> > I have a micro and was considering doing a sort of navigator conversion. I currently have a junk rig on my micro and would not change that to the Chinese Gaff as I am very happy with the Junk Rig.
> >
> > Can you explain how you have found the Navigator? I am concerned that the Micro is very poor to windward - i.e. the lee way it gives is very high particularly in any tidal stream. I have been considering putting some for of lee board on to help reduce the leeway.
> >
> > Any thoughts?
> >
> > Martin
> >
>
I've given considerable thought to "Keel Winglets", or whatever you'd like to call them, and can't get past one major obstacle; breakage.
It seems to me that a person could easily find themselves aground on a beach during an outgoing tide. Without the winglet, the boat would take on a list as the water receded, finally resting on the keel and chine. I've always been worried that a winglet would snap right off in this situation.
Greg
It seems to me that a person could easily find themselves aground on a beach during an outgoing tide. Without the winglet, the boat would take on a list as the water receded, finally resting on the keel and chine. I've always been worried that a winglet would snap right off in this situation.
Greg
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Kreamer" <kreamers@...> wrote:
>
> I'm no expert, but this doesn't seem like a good place for a "winglet." The
> Micro keel probably has some crossover-induced vortex drag (what a winglet
> would counteract) along most of its considerable length. Placing a wing at
> one particular spot wouldn't do much for the remainder of the keel. They're
> really intended for the (small) tips of high-aspect foils, where they can do
> a lot of crossover prevention without being large. A "full length winglet,"
> might be the ticket, if you could construct one, although it might do as
> much (surface) _drag making_ as (vortex) _drag preventing_. But what the
> hell, you could try the quick and dirty plywood idea and gather some
> performance numbers.
>
> -Bill
>
>
> _____
>
> From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> adventures_in_astrophotography
> Sent: 2009-07-15 11:00
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [bolger] Re: Micro Navigator
>
>
>
>
>
> Have any of you Micro/Long Micro owners ever thought of adding a wing to
> your existing keel instead of going deeper with center/off-center/lee
> boards? Seems to me (an inland lake sailor of lightweight, flat-bottom
> bottom boats nothing like a Micro) that you could attach a wing centered on
> the existing CLR, parallel to the DWL, and as low on the existing keel as
> possible. Maybe just some 1/2" ply filleted in place at first, and something
> more integrated and stronger later on if it proved to work. Long Micro in
> particular would seem to be a good candidate for this experiment, with it's
> keel having no apparent drag to it. With LM, you might be able to make it
> from a steel plate and replace most or all of the lead with the wing.
>
> Jon Kolb
> www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
>
I find nothing odd about Micro, then again I ran a Saab
specialty shop and built and live in a geodesic dome. I prefer to be unique. I
think one of me is enough for this world. If you want to talk about odd, how
about the current craze for the re-discovered Brick, now Puddle Duck Racer? I'm
almost done building mine. I'll start by using the sail rig from my June Bug.
The name of my duck is Daffy. I guess that is odd.
MylesJ
Are all us Micro sailer rather smug people? Or is it that we own such a strange looking boat that we are wary of admitting that we might be as odd as the boat we own?
Martin
Martin
Bruce,
It boggles my mind that your statement is so true. I have been involved with an old 44 foot Naval Academy boat and it amazes me how much money people are willing to put into a winch, let alone the rest of the boat.
Gene T.
On 16 Jul, 2009, at 2:47 PM, Bruce Hallman wrote:
On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 10:12 AM, Myles J.
Swift<mswift@computerassi stance.com> wrote:
> may be the most fun you can have in a Micro.
I found it particularly fun a while back, on a very broad reach across
the San Francisco waterfront, to watch the crew of a 34 foot Beneteau
scramble frantically tweaking their sails to avoid being passed by a
homely wooden 15 foot box boat. A boat which cost about as much to
build as the cost of a single deck winch for their Beneteau.
On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 10:12 AM, Myles J.
Swift<mswift@...> wrote:
the San Francisco waterfront, to watch the crew of a 34 foot Beneteau
scramble frantically tweaking their sails to avoid being passed by a
homely wooden 15 foot box boat. A boat which cost about as much to
build as the cost of a single deck winch for their Beneteau.
Swift<mswift@...> wrote:
> may be the most fun you can have in a Micro.I found it particularly fun a while back, on a very broad reach across
the San Francisco waterfront, to watch the crew of a 34 foot Beneteau
scramble frantically tweaking their sails to avoid being passed by a
homely wooden 15 foot box boat. A boat which cost about as much to
build as the cost of a single deck winch for their Beneteau.
Martin,
I agree, people just don't expect hands off sailing. Going
out in big wind, sitting with your back against the cabin, and playing the
mizzen may be the most fun you can have in a Micro. Going out with a reef in
when all the plastic boats are headed in because it is actually windy is fun
too. Regular hot summer day forecast will be winds 15 to 20 gusts to
30.
MylesJ
Dear Bill,
I love the way you defend this boat. Like you I have been pondering about improving windward performance, but if I ignore the leeway issue she is a delight as when going to windward I can set her to be balanced so that I sail without tending the tiller. I love having guest on board and showing them that you can steering by pulling on the mizzen sheet. Those who normally sail Bermudan rigged boats find it rather scary that she does not work like they expect.
I have also raced her - only finished twice, but when on a reach or a run she is remarkably quick. On a run with the junk rig she will over take much bigger boats.
I am hoping to do a trip that will need the wind in a particular direction to make it, and it is this that encourages questions about improving the windward performance.
BTW I notice that she points pretty much the same as most other boats, its just that she often does not sail the direction she is pointed in especially in a tide way!
Martin
I love the way you defend this boat. Like you I have been pondering about improving windward performance, but if I ignore the leeway issue she is a delight as when going to windward I can set her to be balanced so that I sail without tending the tiller. I love having guest on board and showing them that you can steering by pulling on the mizzen sheet. Those who normally sail Bermudan rigged boats find it rather scary that she does not work like they expect.
I have also raced her - only finished twice, but when on a reach or a run she is remarkably quick. On a run with the junk rig she will over take much bigger boats.
I am hoping to do a trip that will need the wind in a particular direction to make it, and it is this that encourages questions about improving the windward performance.
BTW I notice that she points pretty much the same as most other boats, its just that she often does not sail the direction she is pointed in especially in a tide way!
Martin
Oh yeah, Chris' boat was named "Virginia Slocum"...
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...> wrote:
>
> Oh, how I wish I had photos...
Oh, how I wish I had photos...
Long ago, early 90's, Chris Nye, built a MARTHA JANE. Then he crossed Bass Straight to Tassie from South Australia!! He later modified the boat, and has cruised it since (more or less as a live-aboard). He must now be about 80yrs of age, and still is mentioned in passing in the occaisional boating magazine article. He cruises the south eastern coast, and along the Great Barrier Reef, and Top End.
From memory of occaisional sailing alongside one weekend, the mods included: 1) a slight raising of topsides (not so sure on this), 2) flush decked stem to stern with central fully glassed and screened "cockpit" "house" that may have protruded just a little above deck height (memory!) 3) removing leeboards and fitting a salient keel (not sure of shape or length, but certainly very shoal as my Micro was tipped on her keel at low tide in one anchorage and Chris' boat was upright in just inches deeper water), 4) transom rudder (IIRC), 5) inboard diesel, 6) fore and aft cabin spaces, 7) a cemicircular construction off the stern like Slocum's Spray for the mizzen track 8) a ketch-like rather small Freedom-wishbone-type sail plan 9) all sail controls handled from within the "house" - Chris was seen only on deck to bag the lovely ruby coloured sails in the evenings, and for dawn Tai-Chi practice on the fordeck.
This boat sailed like a dream. To see her from ahead coming at you, quickly tacking upwind through the narrow channels of the sandy Gold Coast estuary as she settled into her heeled position, after coming about literally like a sports car, ruby sails against the unbearable glare of white summer cloud sandwiched between the azure blue of sky and water, was a vision splendid! Boy she went well into that chop - and barely a bow wave or any wake! Fantastic! - and clearly room enough aboard for an hard-core cruiser.
I hope to see one day a detailed article on the modifications to that boat, it's apparently unlikely, but I hope. Anyway it gives an idea of what might be possible with a Long Micro conversion. A step down in overall size from a Jesse Cooper, for serious coastal/reef/island cruising.
BTW, as I recall from an incidental inclusion in an article about another boat that Chris much modified for his partner - he dropped the leeboards in favour of the shoal keel mainly to save hassles when bar crossing. In that lengthened large Hartley TS design he dropped the centreboard for similar reason, and I suppose for much improved cruising accommodations too.
Graeme
Long ago, early 90's, Chris Nye, built a MARTHA JANE. Then he crossed Bass Straight to Tassie from South Australia!! He later modified the boat, and has cruised it since (more or less as a live-aboard). He must now be about 80yrs of age, and still is mentioned in passing in the occaisional boating magazine article. He cruises the south eastern coast, and along the Great Barrier Reef, and Top End.
From memory of occaisional sailing alongside one weekend, the mods included: 1) a slight raising of topsides (not so sure on this), 2) flush decked stem to stern with central fully glassed and screened "cockpit" "house" that may have protruded just a little above deck height (memory!) 3) removing leeboards and fitting a salient keel (not sure of shape or length, but certainly very shoal as my Micro was tipped on her keel at low tide in one anchorage and Chris' boat was upright in just inches deeper water), 4) transom rudder (IIRC), 5) inboard diesel, 6) fore and aft cabin spaces, 7) a cemicircular construction off the stern like Slocum's Spray for the mizzen track 8) a ketch-like rather small Freedom-wishbone-type sail plan 9) all sail controls handled from within the "house" - Chris was seen only on deck to bag the lovely ruby coloured sails in the evenings, and for dawn Tai-Chi practice on the fordeck.
This boat sailed like a dream. To see her from ahead coming at you, quickly tacking upwind through the narrow channels of the sandy Gold Coast estuary as she settled into her heeled position, after coming about literally like a sports car, ruby sails against the unbearable glare of white summer cloud sandwiched between the azure blue of sky and water, was a vision splendid! Boy she went well into that chop - and barely a bow wave or any wake! Fantastic! - and clearly room enough aboard for an hard-core cruiser.
I hope to see one day a detailed article on the modifications to that boat, it's apparently unlikely, but I hope. Anyway it gives an idea of what might be possible with a Long Micro conversion. A step down in overall size from a Jesse Cooper, for serious coastal/reef/island cruising.
BTW, as I recall from an incidental inclusion in an article about another boat that Chris much modified for his partner - he dropped the leeboards in favour of the shoal keel mainly to save hassles when bar crossing. In that lengthened large Hartley TS design he dropped the centreboard for similar reason, and I suppose for much improved cruising accommodations too.
Graeme
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bill" <kingw@...> wrote:
>
> Andrew,
> I have never seen an Long Micro (LM) converted to a Navigator.
> LM hangs its mast in a bow tabernacle. If you add a Navigator cabin it will interfere with the folded mast and the mast will not fold to a horizontal position. There are several solutions, but they'll all require some careful planning. Some of my pictures on Flickr might help you envision how you could alter the cabin on an LM and what that might do to the folded mast.
>http://www.flickr.com/photos/23898186@N02/
John,
I briefly considered a keel plate when I was building. Not a deadly-serious consideration, just idle mental chatter inside my head. I saw the endplate on the rudder and it seemed a natural extension. Some of Matt Layden's microcruisers use external chine runners and
allegedly go well to windward. I hadn't envisioned it as a ballast plate, just a thin, sheet-metal or ply endplate. I'm no NA.
I like contemplating little improvements. But I don't want anyone to get the idea that there's something wrong with M/LM. They are great boats, they go to windward decently, and off the wind they haul butt. A few weeks back I was following a 30 foot plastic Catalina/Bene/Hunter thingy in Lake Erie. We were both sailing a beam run and they were about .1 miles ahead of me. My LM kept up with them for mile after mile, and I was a little surprised I couldn't reel them in. And it take gumption to think an LM with 19 feet LWL could catch a 30 foot sloop. Those boxy boats are quick.
Bill, Long Micro Pugnacious
I briefly considered a keel plate when I was building. Not a deadly-serious consideration, just idle mental chatter inside my head. I saw the endplate on the rudder and it seemed a natural extension. Some of Matt Layden's microcruisers use external chine runners and
allegedly go well to windward. I hadn't envisioned it as a ballast plate, just a thin, sheet-metal or ply endplate. I'm no NA.
I like contemplating little improvements. But I don't want anyone to get the idea that there's something wrong with M/LM. They are great boats, they go to windward decently, and off the wind they haul butt. A few weeks back I was following a 30 foot plastic Catalina/Bene/Hunter thingy in Lake Erie. We were both sailing a beam run and they were about .1 miles ahead of me. My LM kept up with them for mile after mile, and I was a little surprised I couldn't reel them in. And it take gumption to think an LM with 19 feet LWL could catch a 30 foot sloop. Those boxy boats are quick.
Bill, Long Micro Pugnacious
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "adventures_in_astrophotography" <jon@...> wrote:
>
> Have any of you Micro/Long Micro owners ever thought of adding a wing to your existing keel instead of going deeper with center/off-center/lee boards? Seems to me (an inland lake sailor of lightweight, flat-bottom bottom boats nothing like a Micro) that you could attach a wing centered on the existing CLR, parallel to the DWL, and as low on the existing keel as possible. Maybe just some 1/2" ply filleted in place at first, and something more integrated and stronger later on if it proved to work. Long Micro in particular would seem to be a good candidate for this experiment, with it's keel having no apparent drag to it. With LM, you might be able to make it from a steel plate and replace most or all of the lead with the wing.
>
> Jon Kolb
> www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
>
I'm no expert, but this
doesn't seem like a good place for a "winglet." The Micro keel probably
has some crossover-induced vortex drag (what a winglet would counteract) along
most of its considerable length. Placing a wing at one particular spot
wouldn't do much for the remainder of the keel. They're really intended
for the (small) tips of high-aspect foils, where they can do a lot of crossover
prevention without being large. A "full length winglet," might be the
ticket, if you could construct one, although it might do as much (surface) _drag
making_ as (vortex) _drag preventing_. But what the hell, you could try
the quick and dirty plywood idea and gather some performance
numbers.
-Bill
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Ofadventures_in_astrophotography
Sent:2009-07-15 11:00
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject:[bolger] Re: Micro NavigatorHave any of you Micro/Long Micro owners ever thought of adding a wing to your existing keel instead of going deeper with center/off-center/ lee boards? Seems to me (an inland lake sailor of lightweight, flat-bottom bottom boats nothing like a Micro) that you could attach a wing centered on the existing CLR, parallel to the DWL, and as low on the existing keel as possible. Maybe just some 1/2" ply filleted in place at first, and something more integrated and stronger later on if it proved to work. Long Micro in particular would seem to be a good candidate for this experiment, with it's keel having no apparent drag to it. With LM, you might be able to make it from a steel plate and replace most or all of the lead with the wing.
Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures .com/boatbuildin g_index.htm
Have any of you Micro/Long Micro owners ever thought of adding a wing to your existing keel instead of going deeper with center/off-center/lee boards? Seems to me (an inland lake sailor of lightweight, flat-bottom bottom boats nothing like a Micro) that you could attach a wing centered on the existing CLR, parallel to the DWL, and as low on the existing keel as possible. Maybe just some 1/2" ply filleted in place at first, and something more integrated and stronger later on if it proved to work. Long Micro in particular would seem to be a good candidate for this experiment, with it's keel having no apparent drag to it. With LM, you might be able to make it from a steel plate and replace most or all of the lead with the wing.
Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
I am just putting the finishing touches on a Long Micro which I have been building for the past 7 months.
I have been considering rigging the boat with a junk rig similar to micro navigator. I wrote Mr.. Bolger about the availability ofa long micro upgrade and he said he had been thinking about it but it wasn’t a priority.
I would research the junk rig conversion there a 2 excellent books on the subject at Amazon (cant recall the title).I think the pilot house shouldn’t be too difficult to figure out .
Cheers
PAT
It's probably worth discussing this question of putting a bolt through the Micro's keel, but I have been thinking of it as no problem whatever. My Micro's keel is mostly full of lead, laid in in fitted ingots with thickened epoxy in all spaces not lead, except for some flooding areas fore and aft. Is not the lead preventive of rot? I'd probably drill oversized holes through the half-inch sheathing, fill them with epoxy, then drill for a half-inch bolt, and so I'd feel pretty sure that the plywood would not be harmed.
It's p--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "mmer@..." <martin.me.roberts@...> wrote:
It's p--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "mmer@..." <martin.me.roberts@...> wrote:
>
> I have thought of an improvised centre plate. I am just worried about putting a bolt through the nice epoxy cover keel!
>
> The other way I was think was a centre plate that came into the hull. As I know how I use my boat I am convinced that a centre plate would not interfere too much with the cabin space. again the problem is breeching the protective layer that is currently intact.
>
> I also am having fun with the micro. I just want to get to a destination that is typically upwind of here and with tide and wind I would be looking at quite a lot of fuel and I hate the noise of the outboard!
>
> Thanks
>
> Martin
>
Andrew,
I have never seen an Long Micro (LM) converted to a Navigator.
LM hangs its mast in a bow tabernacle. If you add a Navigator cabin it will interfere with the folded mast and the mast will not fold to a horizontal position. There are several solutions, but they'll all require some careful planning. Some of my pictures on Flickr might help you envision how you could alter the cabin on an LM and what that might do to the folded mast.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/23898186@N02/
The rudder for LM sits approx. 2.5 feet in front of the stern. It's
about 6 feet (maybe 6.5 feet) from the rudder post to the companionway of the LM. If the rudder post is too far from the cabin, there are relatively simple ways to extend the tiller (the set up for
Guzwell's Trekka comes to mind immediately), but such arrangements might take up useful cockpit space, and complicate the design.
I recall that one of Nels' proposed modifications for the LM was a hard dodger. There's a sketch of it lurking in a file folder in one of the Bolger groups. Sorry I cannot be more specific. I don't believe it ever came to fruition. I sometimes think that a soft-dodger would make sailing my LM to windward a bit more comfortable. I have never desired a Navigator type cabin. Horses for courses...
If you would like to see specific pictures of my LM, such as the rudder arrangement, I can post them.
Bill. Long Micro Pugnacious
I have never seen an Long Micro (LM) converted to a Navigator.
LM hangs its mast in a bow tabernacle. If you add a Navigator cabin it will interfere with the folded mast and the mast will not fold to a horizontal position. There are several solutions, but they'll all require some careful planning. Some of my pictures on Flickr might help you envision how you could alter the cabin on an LM and what that might do to the folded mast.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/23898186@N02/
The rudder for LM sits approx. 2.5 feet in front of the stern. It's
about 6 feet (maybe 6.5 feet) from the rudder post to the companionway of the LM. If the rudder post is too far from the cabin, there are relatively simple ways to extend the tiller (the set up for
Guzwell's Trekka comes to mind immediately), but such arrangements might take up useful cockpit space, and complicate the design.
I recall that one of Nels' proposed modifications for the LM was a hard dodger. There's a sketch of it lurking in a file folder in one of the Bolger groups. Sorry I cannot be more specific. I don't believe it ever came to fruition. I sometimes think that a soft-dodger would make sailing my LM to windward a bit more comfortable. I have never desired a Navigator type cabin. Horses for courses...
If you would like to see specific pictures of my LM, such as the rudder arrangement, I can post them.
Bill. Long Micro Pugnacious
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew" <ima_very_cool_cowboy@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Group,
>
> I started out being interested in the Micro, then I discovered "Long
> Micro" and now I have discovered the "Micro Navigator".. Bolger's long
> cruising modification for the Micro.
>
> Does anyone know whether the Long Micro has also ever been made into a
> "Navigator"
>
> Has anyone here built or helped with building a Micro Navigator?
>
> I found this Micro to Navigator conversion article...
>http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/02/articles/oink/
> <http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/02/articles/oink/>
>
> Any advice or leads to more Navigator information would be really
> appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Andrew
>
I have thought of an improvised centre plate. I am just worried about putting a bolt through the nice epoxy cover keel!
The other way I was think was a centre plate that came into the hull. As I know how I use my boat I am convinced that a centre plate would not interfere too much with the cabin space. again the problem is breeching the protective layer that is currently intact.
I also am having fun with the micro. I just want to get to a destination that is typically upwind of here and with tide and wind I would be looking at quite a lot of fuel and I hate the noise of the outboard!
Thanks
Martin
The other way I was think was a centre plate that came into the hull. As I know how I use my boat I am convinced that a centre plate would not interfere too much with the cabin space. again the problem is breeching the protective layer that is currently intact.
I also am having fun with the micro. I just want to get to a destination that is typically upwind of here and with tide and wind I would be looking at quite a lot of fuel and I hate the noise of the outboard!
Thanks
Martin
On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 9:15 AM,
mmer@...<martin.me.roberts@...> wrote:
maximum hull speed for a 15'4" displacement boat which is not very
fast. The obvious solution when I am a hurry to go to windward, or to
buck a current, is that I fire up the outboard. The Micro Navigator
is a highly comfortable and effective pocket cruiser. It is not a
boat to fuss about squeezing perfection of a couple points of leeway.
It is a great boat to relax in and kick back with a cup of tea and
read a book while you wait for the wind to shift making that leeway
unnecessary.
And I would think that the rigging of a true junk rig might be hard to
handle from inside a Navigator cabin. The Chinese Gaff has that
mizzen mast/staff which is key to handling the main sheets to clear
the cabin roof from inside the cabin.
mmer@...<martin.me.roberts@...> wrote:
>Realistically, the Micro Navigation usually goes at exactly the
>
> Bruce,
>
> I have a micro and was considering doing a sort of navigator conversion. I
> currently have a junk rig on my micro and would not change that to the
> Chinese Gaff as I am very happy with the Junk Rig.
>
> Can you explain how you have found the Navigator? I am concerned that the
> Micro is very poor to windward - i.e. the lee way it gives is very high
> particularly in any tidal stream. I have been considering putting some for
> of lee board on to help reduce the leeway.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Martin
>
maximum hull speed for a 15'4" displacement boat which is not very
fast. The obvious solution when I am a hurry to go to windward, or to
buck a current, is that I fire up the outboard. The Micro Navigator
is a highly comfortable and effective pocket cruiser. It is not a
boat to fuss about squeezing perfection of a couple points of leeway.
It is a great boat to relax in and kick back with a cup of tea and
read a book while you wait for the wind to shift making that leeway
unnecessary.
And I would think that the rigging of a true junk rig might be hard to
handle from inside a Navigator cabin. The Chinese Gaff has that
mizzen mast/staff which is key to handling the main sheets to clear
the cabin roof from inside the cabin.
Re the question of improving a Micro's windward performance, some of us had a chat on that topic here awhile back. I proposed simply through-bolting a plate alongside the Micro's keel, and rigging a simple pendant for it to run up to the bottom, aft to one of the well-drains, and up to a cleat. Some of the gang seemed to think it a worthwhile experiment. I'm still thinking of it but haven't done it, having so much fun with the Micro as it is. And being full busy. Mason
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "mmer@..." <martin.me.roberts@...> wrote:
>
> Bruce,
>
> I have a micro and was considering doing a sort of navigator conversion. I currently have a junk rig on my micro and would not change that to the Chinese Gaff as I am very happy with the Junk Rig.
>
> Can you explain how you have found the Navigator? I am concerned that the Micro is very poor to windward - i.e. the lee way it gives is very high particularly in any tidal stream. I have been considering putting some for of lee board on to help reduce the leeway.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Martin
>
Bruce,
I have a micro and was considering doing a sort of navigator conversion. I currently have a junk rig on my micro and would not change that to the Chinese Gaff as I am very happy with the Junk Rig.
Can you explain how you have found the Navigator? I am concerned that the Micro is very poor to windward - i.e. the lee way it gives is very high particularly in any tidal stream. I have been considering putting some for of lee board on to help reduce the leeway.
Any thoughts?
Martin
I have a micro and was considering doing a sort of navigator conversion. I currently have a junk rig on my micro and would not change that to the Chinese Gaff as I am very happy with the Junk Rig.
Can you explain how you have found the Navigator? I am concerned that the Micro is very poor to windward - i.e. the lee way it gives is very high particularly in any tidal stream. I have been considering putting some for of lee board on to help reduce the leeway.
Any thoughts?
Martin
Listen to what Bruce said. I personally have not seen the rudder configuration of the Long Micro.
Sincerely,
Gene T.
On 14 Jul, 2009, at 11:44 AM, Bruce Hallman wrote:
Nels, from this group was considering a Long Micro Navigator, check
the archives from 2006. I don't remember if he got past the thinking
stages.
I think that the Micro Navigator, (having built, and presently owning
one), is the result of some deceptively complex design expertise. The
solution of Micro Navigator would not easily transfer up to the longer
Long Micro. The major complexity I see is that the location of the
rudder post relative to the helm position is much different between
these boats. The 'navigator' concept comes from the inspiration of
Blondie Hassler's Jester, and requires the ability to handle all the
sailing functions of the boat from inside the cabin.
I an not saying that a Long Micro 'navigator' boat could not be worked
out, I am just saying that doing so would require working out some
fairly complex details, rigging & helm, and would not be a simple
scale up of the Micro Navigator.
> Does anyone know whether the Long Micro has also ever been made into a
> "Navigator"
Nels, from this group was considering a Long Micro Navigator, check
the archives from 2006. I don't remember if he got past the thinking
stages.
I think that the Micro Navigator, (having built, and presently owning
one), is the result of some deceptively complex design expertise. The
solution of Micro Navigator would not easily transfer up to the longer
Long Micro. The major complexity I see is that the location of the
rudder post relative to the helm position is much different between
these boats. The 'navigator' concept comes from the inspiration of
Blondie Hassler's Jester, and requires the ability to handle all the
sailing functions of the boat from inside the cabin.
I an not saying that a Long Micro 'navigator' boat could not be worked
out, I am just saying that doing so would require working out some
fairly complex details, rigging & helm, and would not be a simple
scale up of the Micro Navigator.
the archives from 2006. I don't remember if he got past the thinking
stages.
I think that the Micro Navigator, (having built, and presently owning
one), is the result of some deceptively complex design expertise. The
solution of Micro Navigator would not easily transfer up to the longer
Long Micro. The major complexity I see is that the location of the
rudder post relative to the helm position is much different between
these boats. The 'navigator' concept comes from the inspiration of
Blondie Hassler's Jester, and requires the ability to handle all the
sailing functions of the boat from inside the cabin.
I an not saying that a Long Micro 'navigator' boat could not be worked
out, I am just saying that doing so would require working out some
fairly complex details, rigging & helm, and would not be a simple
scale up of the Micro Navigator.
> Does anyone know whether the Long Micro has also ever been made into a
> "Navigator"
Andrew,
I am currently working on a Micro Navigator from scratch. In the plans come all the information to build any version of the Micro (Micro plans with the Navigator update). The Navigator update is really meant for modifying an existing conventional Micro. It takes some thinking and head scratching to decide what parts are needed and what not needed for the Navigator version when building from scratch. Because of this, I'd say that the Navigator upgrade could be applied to the Long Micro almost as easily as to the Micro when done from scratch. Issues that remain are sail upgrade as applied to the Long Micro, size and ballance. Not trivial matters but the sail sized for the Micro would no doubt work on the Long. Let us know what you decide to do.
I currently am laminating the bottom with 1/4 inch Meranti to get a 1/2 inch or 3/4 inch thickness, the final decision will be made soon. As it sits in my basement, upside down, the Micro is an enormous boat to be named Micro!!!!!!
Sincerely,
Gene T.
On 13 Jul, 2009, at 11:57 PM, Andrew wrote:
Dear Group,
I started out being interested in the Micro, then I discovered "Long Micro" and now I have discovered the "Micro Navigator".. Bolger's long cruising modification for the Micro.
Does anyone know whether the Long Micro has also ever been made into a "Navigator"
Has anyone here built or helped with building a Micro Navigator?
I found this Micro to Navigator conversion article...
http://www.duckwork smagazine. com/02/articles/ oink/
Any advice or leads to more Navigator information would be really appreciated.
Thanks,
Andrew
Dear Group,
I started out being interested in the Micro, then I discovered "Long Micro" and now I have discovered the "Micro Navigator".. Bolger's long cruising modification for the Micro.
Does anyone know whether the Long Micro has also ever been made into a "Navigator"
Has anyone here built or helped with building a Micro Navigator?
I found this Micro to Navigator conversion article...
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/02/articles/oink/
Any advice or leads to more Navigator information would be really appreciated.
Thanks,
Andrew
I started out being interested in the Micro, then I discovered "Long Micro" and now I have discovered the "Micro Navigator".. Bolger's long cruising modification for the Micro.
Does anyone know whether the Long Micro has also ever been made into a "Navigator"
Has anyone here built or helped with building a Micro Navigator?
I found this Micro to Navigator conversion article...
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/02/articles/oink/
Any advice or leads to more Navigator information would be really appreciated.
Thanks,
Andrew
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
year. I'll watch for her out on the water.
Don Schultz
>waitlist
> A big/little boat is critical in my case, as I wanted a marina berth
> in downtown San Francisco. I waited three years for a tiny 'shoehorn
> it in' space, move in scheduled for this coming weekend. The
> for a normal sized marina space is seven+ years.Congrats on getting the space. I visit SF on business a few times a
>
year. I'll watch for her out on the water.
Don Schultz
Here is a image rendering of a Micro Navigator, odd really,
considering I own a 100% scale model.
Freeship calculates the displacement at the waterline shown at 1 Ton,
which is amazing, I think, for a 15'4" long boat. A true big little
boat.
A big/little boat is critical in my case, as I wanted a marina berth
in downtown San Francisco. I waited three years for a tiny 'shoehorn
it in' space, move in scheduled for this coming weekend. The waitlist
for a normal sized marina space is seven+ years.
http://hallman.org/bolger/422/MicroNav.fbm
http://hallman.org/bolger/422/MicroNavigator.png
considering I own a 100% scale model.
Freeship calculates the displacement at the waterline shown at 1 Ton,
which is amazing, I think, for a 15'4" long boat. A true big little
boat.
A big/little boat is critical in my case, as I wanted a marina berth
in downtown San Francisco. I waited three years for a tiny 'shoehorn
it in' space, move in scheduled for this coming weekend. The waitlist
for a normal sized marina space is seven+ years.
http://hallman.org/bolger/422/MicroNav.fbm
http://hallman.org/bolger/422/MicroNavigator.png
> Micro Navigators.Jason Stancil was building on one too.
Be sure to read back in the archive, as much
has been written already.
If what you want is a small pocket cruiser, no better
boat exists.
The sail rig, though complex, works just as advertised.
Asking if I am happy with it? Yes I am, on the days
I want a pocket cruiser. Lately, I want a speed boat,
for waterskiing on the lake with the bikini babes.
<g>
In all my web searching I have only found photos of two Micro
Navigators. Those belonging to Bruce Hallman and Don
Baldwinson. It seems to be a popular design to discuss but I
find myself wondering how many of them are under
consideration, under construction or under sail. Anybody in this
group fit these descriptions? Among those who are sailing one,
are you generally happy with the boat? Any comments? Thanks
for any response.
Mark
Navigators. Those belonging to Bruce Hallman and Don
Baldwinson. It seems to be a popular design to discuss but I
find myself wondering how many of them are under
consideration, under construction or under sail. Anybody in this
group fit these descriptions? Among those who are sailing one,
are you generally happy with the boat? Any comments? Thanks
for any response.
Mark
Bruce, thanks for the photo link.
Now that I see it again, I feel the steps may be unnecessary. Don's
ladder may be a good way to go, or just use the corner of the bunk for a
foothold when going in or out. Lots of space you have there aft of the
bunks and access is important. You're right about the mock up. So much
will depend on your own size and flexibility that it needs to fit you
personally. May I suggest you go as far as framing out the cabin house
with scrap sticks and a hot glue gun or duct tape. Surrounded by the
cabin and moving around as you would when aboard may solve this puzzle
the best. Be sure to consider handholds along the companionway sides, or
better yet, cutouts in knees connecting the rooftop to the companionway
bulkhead.
My experience in small cabin boats is everything needs it's space, plus
a second space for it when it has to be moved to get to something else....
Whatever you do, keep posting those photos...
Thanks,
Rick
Now that I see it again, I feel the steps may be unnecessary. Don's
ladder may be a good way to go, or just use the corner of the bunk for a
foothold when going in or out. Lots of space you have there aft of the
bunks and access is important. You're right about the mock up. So much
will depend on your own size and flexibility that it needs to fit you
personally. May I suggest you go as far as framing out the cabin house
with scrap sticks and a hot glue gun or duct tape. Surrounded by the
cabin and moving around as you would when aboard may solve this puzzle
the best. Be sure to consider handholds along the companionway sides, or
better yet, cutouts in knees connecting the rooftop to the companionway
bulkhead.
My experience in small cabin boats is everything needs it's space, plus
a second space for it when it has to be moved to get to something else....
Whatever you do, keep posting those photos...
Thanks,
Rick
>
>
> ...shows the location for the steps.
> I think I need to do some full
> size 'mocking up' to work out
> the best step details.
>
> PCB shows 'two steps' from the floor
> up to the afterdeck, but leaves it up
> to the builder how to hang them.
>
Also have a look at my steps in Bolger2/files/Navigator/cabin
looking aft. The main step is a good height for sitting and looking
out...it's quite a wide and broad step. The ladder pulls out for
portapotti. I only really adapted the previous ladder because I had
it from the Micro. Actually, the one main step is quite enough, and
an easy height going in or out, and I may not bother with the
ladder..
DonB
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman <brucehallman@y...>"
<brucehallman@y...> wrote:
looking aft. The main step is a good height for sitting and looking
out...it's quite a wide and broad step. The ladder pulls out for
portapotti. I only really adapted the previous ladder because I had
it from the Micro. Actually, the one main step is quite enough, and
an easy height going in or out, and I may not bother with the
ladder..
DonB
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman <brucehallman@y...>"
<brucehallman@y...> wrote:
> --- Rick <sctree@d...> wrote:
> > ...photos to get this straight
> > in my head.
>
>http://www.hallman.org/bolger/micro/hour160/02.JPG
>
> ...shows the location for the steps.
> I think I need to do some full
> size 'mocking up' to work out
> the best step details.
>
> PCB shows 'two steps' from the floor
> up to the afterdeck, but leaves it up
> to the builder how to hang them.
>
> > First step up is about the
> > height of the bunks???
> > That could be just a plank
> > spanning from bunk to bunk,
>
> I agree, but it works out to be
> a few inches below the top
> of the bunk. I think a 1"x1"x12"
> shelf each side could support the
> plank.
>
> > The top level would be level
> > with the hatch entrance sill?
>
> I wish <g>, but that is the trouble
> the top step has nothing good
> to connect to, that is why I am
> leaning towards the idea of making
> it extend up from the bottom step.
>
>http://www.hallman.org/bolger/micro/iso2.gif
--- Rick <sctree@d...> wrote:
...shows the location for the steps.
I think I need to do some full
size 'mocking up' to work out
the best step details.
PCB shows 'two steps' from the floor
up to the afterdeck, but leaves it up
to the builder how to hang them.
a few inches below the top
of the bunk. I think a 1"x1"x12"
shelf each side could support the
plank.
the top step has nothing good
to connect to, that is why I am
leaning towards the idea of making
it extend up from the bottom step.
http://www.hallman.org/bolger/micro/iso2.gif
> ...photos to get this straighthttp://www.hallman.org/bolger/micro/hour160/02.JPG
> in my head.
...shows the location for the steps.
I think I need to do some full
size 'mocking up' to work out
the best step details.
PCB shows 'two steps' from the floor
up to the afterdeck, but leaves it up
to the builder how to hang them.
> First step up is about theI agree, but it works out to be
> height of the bunks???
> That could be just a plank
> spanning from bunk to bunk,
a few inches below the top
of the bunk. I think a 1"x1"x12"
shelf each side could support the
plank.
> The top level would be levelI wish <g>, but that is the trouble
> with the hatch entrance sill?
the top step has nothing good
to connect to, that is why I am
leaning towards the idea of making
it extend up from the bottom step.
http://www.hallman.org/bolger/micro/iso2.gif
I think I'll have to go back to your recent photos to get this straight
in my head.
For now, you're going from the cabin sole to the bridgedeck? First step
up is about the height of the bunks??? That could be just a plank
spanning from bunk to bunk, easily removable for access to the potty,
stow the plank under a bunk mattress when not in use. Or how about just
a small extension of the side of the bunk, just enough square inches for
one foot?
The top level would be level with the hatch entrance sill? Will it be
wide enough for and aft to sit on? How about to sit on with the hatch
boards closed but your head out above the sliding hatch.? Then finally,
the step in between is the one that you have drawn, also has to be
removable for the potty, and is the one you want to flip open for a
table surface? But your drawing shows two steps, is the lower one the
same as the bunk height? I guess I'm confused as to how many steps from
sole to deck....
Ahhgg, to many questions there... Later I'll look again at your photos
and then I'll probably understand....
Rick
in my head.
For now, you're going from the cabin sole to the bridgedeck? First step
up is about the height of the bunks??? That could be just a plank
spanning from bunk to bunk, easily removable for access to the potty,
stow the plank under a bunk mattress when not in use. Or how about just
a small extension of the side of the bunk, just enough square inches for
one foot?
The top level would be level with the hatch entrance sill? Will it be
wide enough for and aft to sit on? How about to sit on with the hatch
boards closed but your head out above the sliding hatch.? Then finally,
the step in between is the one that you have drawn, also has to be
removable for the potty, and is the one you want to flip open for a
table surface? But your drawing shows two steps, is the lower one the
same as the bunk height? I guess I'm confused as to how many steps from
sole to deck....
Ahhgg, to many questions there... Later I'll look again at your photos
and then I'll probably understand....
Rick
>
>
> One problem is that the step assembly
> needs to lift out of the way to
> make room for the port-a-potty. An
> idea to deal with that might be to
> have two 'finger jointed' fid shelves
> mounted to each of the berth sides.
> The step assembly would nestle in the
> finger joints, giving the steps a
> measure of stability suitible for
> 'stepping upon' while still being
> removable and 'stowable'. See:
>
>http://www.hallman.org/bolger/micro/iso.gif
>
I may be biased since Sailrite is my customer, but I can say they are
excellent folks and their sewing machines are quite nice and
well-liked. We had a guy up to visit a week or two back, quite an
operation. The machines, I think, are Chinese, but get a number of
improvements when they get to the states.
Gregg Carlson
At 03:43 PM 12/30/00 +1300, you wrote:
excellent folks and their sewing machines are quite nice and
well-liked. We had a guy up to visit a week or two back, quite an
operation. The machines, I think, are Chinese, but get a number of
improvements when they get to the states.
Gregg Carlson
At 03:43 PM 12/30/00 +1300, you wrote:
>Greetings from New Zealand...
>
>HELP! I'm thinking of investing in a Sailrite LSZ1 sewing machine for making
>some replacement junk sails. I'd appreciate any comments which members may
>have about these machines.
>
>Thanks, and Happy New Year to you all from windy Wellington (35kts for the
>last week)
>
>Jeremy Cooper
>Fu-T'ien
>Mana, New Zealand
>
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
>- no flogging dead horses
>- add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
>- stay on topic and punctuate
>- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
Paul,
I have purchased the Micro plans from PCB&F directly. They included
the following:
- 17"x22" Blueprints(Seven Sheets total)
- Key to Construction Plans (Four - 8.5"x11" pages)
- Micro Navigator Upgrade (Two - 8.5"x11" pages)
The bluelprints include:
5 sheets - Micro Construction Details
1 sheet - Micro Navigator Option
1 sheet - Plywood Utilisation Sheet
Overall quality of the blueprints and keys are good. I've taken
another look at mine before responding to this and can't find
anything that's not readable. A quick spot check with a ruler
against a couple of the measurements given also confirms that the
scale shown is correct. PCB&F's responses have also been very quick
- I had the plans in Indonesia a little over 2 weeks after faxing the
order. They Air Mailed them overseas at no extra cost which I
thought was pretty good.
I haven't started building yet since I've decided to wait until I
move back to North America, but I think that between the plans and
Payson's book there's more than enough information to build. Mind
you though I've also cheated and crawled all over (and photographed)
Peter Lenihan's very well built Micro as a pre-building exercise.
Regards,
Mark Oliver
Sorry to hear about the cold weather back in the States - so I won't
tell you about the time I spent around the pool today between
building spurts on my Plywood 12-1/2 model
I have purchased the Micro plans from PCB&F directly. They included
the following:
- 17"x22" Blueprints(Seven Sheets total)
- Key to Construction Plans (Four - 8.5"x11" pages)
- Micro Navigator Upgrade (Two - 8.5"x11" pages)
The bluelprints include:
5 sheets - Micro Construction Details
1 sheet - Micro Navigator Option
1 sheet - Plywood Utilisation Sheet
Overall quality of the blueprints and keys are good. I've taken
another look at mine before responding to this and can't find
anything that's not readable. A quick spot check with a ruler
against a couple of the measurements given also confirms that the
scale shown is correct. PCB&F's responses have also been very quick
- I had the plans in Indonesia a little over 2 weeks after faxing the
order. They Air Mailed them overseas at no extra cost which I
thought was pretty good.
I haven't started building yet since I've decided to wait until I
move back to North America, but I think that between the plans and
Payson's book there's more than enough information to build. Mind
you though I've also cheated and crawled all over (and photographed)
Peter Lenihan's very well built Micro as a pre-building exercise.
Regards,
Mark Oliver
Sorry to hear about the cold weather back in the States - so I won't
tell you about the time I spent around the pool today between
building spurts on my Plywood 12-1/2 model
--- Inbolger@egroups.com, "Paul A. Lefebvre, Jr." <paul@w...> wrote:
to
easier
to have
decide
it's
during the recent "10%-off" sale, and received photocopies of
drawings that appear to be usable, though definetly not "high
quality." The written dimensions are all readible, though it
might get interesting trying to "scale-off" dimensions using
a rule. But since my work occasionally departs from the
drawings (intentionaly or otherwise), I don't think I would
be able to blame my inability to build this boat on the
drawings.
Speaking of drawings, I have several boats-worth of Jim
Michalak's drawings and they are real nice. The ulitimate
in drawings, however, might be for Kilburn Adam's "Skiff
America 20." I have seen some of the preliminary drawings
are they are very nice and neat, and he told me today that
the plans package will contain about 40 sheets, 11 by 17.
Absolutely EVERYTHING will be detailed.
If the weather would warm up, I could start priming and
painting my AF4. Instead, I am spending my time looking
at this electron box.
Happy New Year.
> OK, after months of lurking, at last I'm ready to join the ranks ofall you
> enthusiastic Micro owners and builders; I am all set to send in mycheck for
> the plans.... my question is, where do I send it, and for how much?in
>
> A check of CSB's web site this morning shows them apparently still
> business and selling micro plans,:" Six 18" X 22" blueprints,Numbered
> Building Key, key expansion, Building Tips, Mast and Spar Making,Keel
> Building booklet" ; the price listed on their web site is $75, andappears
> to be current. Have seen more than one mention of how helpful thebuilding
> key and tips are, and these apparently do not come with PCB'sversion of the
> plans, please correct me if I'm wrong;construction.
>
> yesterday on Pippo's site I found this: Phil Bolger & Friends sell,
> obviously enough, plans for Micro and several hundreds more Bolger's
> designs. As of today (June 5th, 2000) the WWW site is under
> Copies of complete plans for Micro to build one boat are 150 US$ ,including
> the Navigator option. For those who already have the plans, theNavigator
> sheet costs 50 US$. I realize currency exchange and shipping ratesmay have
> colored his take on the price of the plans, or not; In his buildinglog, he
> mentions some confusion in things like the roof camber, etc. thatmay be
> dealt with in the CSB supplemental material, but I don't knowenough
to
> judge.by PCB on
>
> And on Chuck Merrill's web site, at the end of the scanned article
> the Navigator upgrade from MAIB, it says "plans for #422 Micro, onseven
> 17"x 22"sheets, including improvements such as the Navigator, are$100 and
> available from us at Phil Bolger and friends.... Navigator upgradesheet is
> $35." - not sure of the date of that publication......anybody knowhow old
> these prices are?years. This
>
> I've built 4 very nice strip kayaks and canoes over the past 10
> will be my first plywood boat, and by all accounts I expect it tobe
easier
> than the strippers except for the keel, in which case it may benice
to have
> that 'keel building booklet' offered by CSB. I've assembled arespectable
> shop, have read Devlin, Buehler, Bingham, Gougeons, Pardey, andothers, and
> am comfortable working in wood, epoxy and glass. I'd like to mail acheck
> directly to PCB, but can't help but wonder how much more useful orof you
> time-saving the additional materials offered by CSB might be. Some
> may remember my musings on the Navigator rig option a month or twoago, have
> since decided to go with the standard Micro rig and layout, so thatdoesn't
> enter into the decision any more. As for the price confusion, onceI
decide
> who I'm going to buy from, a phone call would quickly resolve it;if
it's
> really double the price from PCB vs. CSB, that may enter into thedecision,
> if it's only $25, it wouldn't. Although I realize each builder onlyhad one
> set of plans and it would be hard for any one person to make adirect
> comparison between the two sources, I rely on the collective wisdomof the
> group to tell me: How much harder is it to build from PCB's plansvs. CSB's
> 'plans package'?making
>
> I welcome all opinions, practical as well as philosophical.........
>
> thanks,
>
> Paul Lefebvre
> suffering from a bad bout of cabin fever on Cape Cod, need to start
> some noise in the basement!Good evening: I purchased a set of Micro plans from C.S.B & B.
during the recent "10%-off" sale, and received photocopies of
drawings that appear to be usable, though definetly not "high
quality." The written dimensions are all readible, though it
might get interesting trying to "scale-off" dimensions using
a rule. But since my work occasionally departs from the
drawings (intentionaly or otherwise), I don't think I would
be able to blame my inability to build this boat on the
drawings.
Speaking of drawings, I have several boats-worth of Jim
Michalak's drawings and they are real nice. The ulitimate
in drawings, however, might be for Kilburn Adam's "Skiff
America 20." I have seen some of the preliminary drawings
are they are very nice and neat, and he told me today that
the plans package will contain about 40 sheets, 11 by 17.
Absolutely EVERYTHING will be detailed.
If the weather would warm up, I could start priming and
painting my AF4. Instead, I am spending my time looking
at this electron box.
Happy New Year.
Greetings from New Zealand...
HELP! I'm thinking of investing in a Sailrite LSZ1 sewing machine for making
some replacement junk sails. I'd appreciate any comments which members may
have about these machines.
Thanks, and Happy New Year to you all from windy Wellington (35kts for the
last week)
Jeremy Cooper
Fu-T'ien
Mana, New Zealand
HELP! I'm thinking of investing in a Sailrite LSZ1 sewing machine for making
some replacement junk sails. I'd appreciate any comments which members may
have about these machines.
Thanks, and Happy New Year to you all from windy Wellington (35kts for the
last week)
Jeremy Cooper
Fu-T'ien
Mana, New Zealand
I bought a set from PCB&F earlier this year after hearing complaints that
CSB's were not very readable and that CSB had not paid royalties due the
designer. (I suspect there is two sides to the royalty issue, I just picked
the side of PCB over CSB.) The planse were not cheap compared to CSB, I'm
thinking $150, but they are quite clear and readable. They included PCB's
building key and a sheet with the Navigator option. They also include a new,
taller rig as an option on the standard boat. Bolger now advocates the tall
rig, FWIW.
The rest of the stuff in the CSB plans is available from other sources.
My $0.02,
JB
CSB's were not very readable and that CSB had not paid royalties due the
designer. (I suspect there is two sides to the royalty issue, I just picked
the side of PCB over CSB.) The planse were not cheap compared to CSB, I'm
thinking $150, but they are quite clear and readable. They included PCB's
building key and a sheet with the Navigator option. They also include a new,
taller rig as an option on the standard boat. Bolger now advocates the tall
rig, FWIW.
The rest of the stuff in the CSB plans is available from other sources.
My $0.02,
JB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul A. Lefebvre, Jr." <paul@...>
To: <bolger@egroups.com>
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2000 11:09 AM
Subject: [bolger] Micro plans - from whom, and how much?
| OK, after months of lurking, at last I'm ready to join the ranks of all
you
| enthusiastic Micro owners and builders; I am all set to send in my check
for
| the plans.... my question is, where do I send it, and for how much?
|
| A check of CSB's web site this morning shows them apparently still in
| business and selling micro plans,:" Six 18" X 22" blueprints, Numbered
| Building Key, key expansion, Building Tips, Mast and Spar Making, Keel
| Building booklet" ; the price listed on their web site is $75, and appears
| to be current. Have seen more than one mention of how helpful the building
| key and tips are, and these apparently do not come with PCB's version of
the
| plans, please correct me if I'm wrong;
|
| yesterday on Pippo's site I found this: Phil Bolger & Friends sell,
| obviously enough, plans for Micro and several hundreds more Bolger's
| designs. As of today (June 5th, 2000) the WWW site is under construction.
| Copies of complete plans for Micro to build one boat are 150 US$ ,
including
| the Navigator option. For those who already have the plans, the Navigator
| sheet costs 50 US$. I realize currency exchange and shipping rates may
have
| colored his take on the price of the plans, or not; In his building log,
he
| mentions some confusion in things like the roof camber, etc. that may be
| dealt with in the CSB supplemental material, but I don't know enough to
| judge.
|
| And on Chuck Merrill's web site, at the end of the scanned article by PCB
on
| the Navigator upgrade from MAIB, it says "plans for #422 Micro, on seven
| 17"x 22"sheets, including improvements such as the Navigator, are $100 and
| available from us at Phil Bolger and friends.... Navigator upgrade sheet
is
| $35." - not sure of the date of that publication......anybody know how old
| these prices are?
|
| I've built 4 very nice strip kayaks and canoes over the past 10 years.
This
| will be my first plywood boat, and by all accounts I expect it to be
easier
| than the strippers except for the keel, in which case it may be nice to
have
| that 'keel building booklet' offered by CSB. I've assembled a respectable
| shop, have read Devlin, Buehler, Bingham, Gougeons, Pardey, and others,
and
| am comfortable working in wood, epoxy and glass. I'd like to mail a check
| directly to PCB, but can't help but wonder how much more useful or
| time-saving the additional materials offered by CSB might be. Some of you
| may remember my musings on the Navigator rig option a month or two ago,
have
| since decided to go with the standard Micro rig and layout, so that
doesn't
| enter into the decision any more. As for the price confusion, once I
decide
| who I'm going to buy from, a phone call would quickly resolve it; if it's
| really double the price from PCB vs. CSB, that may enter into the
decision,
| if it's only $25, it wouldn't. Although I realize each builder only had
one
| set of plans and it would be hard for any one person to make a direct
| comparison between the two sources, I rely on the collective wisdom of the
| group to tell me: How much harder is it to build from PCB's plans vs.
CSB's
| 'plans package'?
|
| I welcome all opinions, practical as well as philosophical.........
|
| thanks,
|
| Paul Lefebvre
| suffering from a bad bout of cabin fever on Cape Cod, need to start making
| some noise in the basement!
|
Paul,
I got my Micro plans from CSB the last of November on "sale" for $65.(normal price is $75) The Quality of the drawings are beyond "BAD". I am a draftsman by trade and if I sent these prints to the shop, I would lose my job. I am thinking about buying another set from PCB to get better quality and support from the designer.
The reprint quality of the spar building guide is also very bad. It's almost unreadable. The guide is an edited reprint from "Small Boat Journal,#40 & 41, December/March". There is a lot of info missing however; this group can answer most questions you might have about spars and rigging.
The keel building notes are readable although not needed. Go to Duckworks Magazine on the net to see how Peter L. poured his keel. It's almost the same as the keel building notes.
Micro's key expansion (by Bernie W.) is helpfull in that he has changed the building sequince (sp) to keep from turning the hull over more than one time. Bernie also tells us not to use the plywood utilization sheets for measurements--unless dimensions are shown. The key expansion is handy if you have never built a boat before, but not required. Again, the group will be more helpfull.
The little booklet "How to build Common Sense Boats" refers you to the Harold Payson book "Build the new instant boats" as a building guide. The little booklet has a lot of general boatbuilding information that is handy, but I went ahead and bought Payson's book and got a little better understanding of plywood boat construction.
If I had to do it all over again, I would order the plans from PCB and use this group for any questions.
I am new to this group and plywood boatbuilding but I am going to build with no fear because of the support from this group. Don't be afraid to ask seemingly dumb questions because these guy's (and gals) want to help. Just look at the listings and you'll see a desire to help each other.
You can contact me off list if you want more info on the CSB planset for Micro.
Roger
Still Freezing to death in Ft.Worth,Texas
I got my Micro plans from CSB the last of November on "sale" for $65.(normal price is $75) The Quality of the drawings are beyond "BAD". I am a draftsman by trade and if I sent these prints to the shop, I would lose my job. I am thinking about buying another set from PCB to get better quality and support from the designer.
The reprint quality of the spar building guide is also very bad. It's almost unreadable. The guide is an edited reprint from "Small Boat Journal,#40 & 41, December/March". There is a lot of info missing however; this group can answer most questions you might have about spars and rigging.
The keel building notes are readable although not needed. Go to Duckworks Magazine on the net to see how Peter L. poured his keel. It's almost the same as the keel building notes.
Micro's key expansion (by Bernie W.) is helpfull in that he has changed the building sequince (sp) to keep from turning the hull over more than one time. Bernie also tells us not to use the plywood utilization sheets for measurements--unless dimensions are shown. The key expansion is handy if you have never built a boat before, but not required. Again, the group will be more helpfull.
The little booklet "How to build Common Sense Boats" refers you to the Harold Payson book "Build the new instant boats" as a building guide. The little booklet has a lot of general boatbuilding information that is handy, but I went ahead and bought Payson's book and got a little better understanding of plywood boat construction.
If I had to do it all over again, I would order the plans from PCB and use this group for any questions.
I am new to this group and plywood boatbuilding but I am going to build with no fear because of the support from this group. Don't be afraid to ask seemingly dumb questions because these guy's (and gals) want to help. Just look at the listings and you'll see a desire to help each other.
You can contact me off list if you want more info on the CSB planset for Micro.
Roger
Still Freezing to death in Ft.Worth,Texas
--- Inbolger@egroups.com, "Paul A. Lefebvre, Jr." <paul@w...> wrote:
> OK, after months of lurking, at last I'm ready to join the ranks of all you
> enthusiastic Micro owners and builders; I am all set to send in my check for
> the plans.... my question is, where do I send it, and for how much?
>
> A check of CSB's web site this morning shows them apparently still in
> business and selling micro plans,:" Six 18" X 22" blueprints, Numbered
> Building Key, key expansion, Building Tips, Mast and Spar Making, Keel
> Building booklet" ; the price listed on their web site is $75, and appears
> to be current. Have seen more than one mention of how helpful the building
> key and tips are, and these apparently do not come with PCB's version of the
> plans, please correct me if I'm wrong;
>
> yesterday on Pippo's site I found this: Phil Bolger & Friends sell,
> obviously enough, plans for Micro and several hundreds more Bolger's
> designs. As of today (June 5th, 2000) the WWW site is under construction.
> Copies of complete plans for Micro to build one boat are 150 US$ , including
> the Navigator option. For those who already have the plans, the Navigator
> sheet costs 50 US$. I realize currency exchange and shipping rates may have
> colored his take on the price of the plans, or not; In his building log, he
> mentions some confusion in things like the roof camber, etc. that may be
> dealt with in the CSB supplemental material, but I don't know enough to
> judge.
>
> And on Chuck Merrill's web site, at the end of the scanned article by PCB on
> the Navigator upgrade from MAIB, it says "plans for #422 Micro, on seven
> 17"x 22"sheets, including improvements such as the Navigator, are $100 and
> available from us at Phil Bolger and friends.... Navigator upgrade sheet is
> $35." - not sure of the date of that publication......anybody know how old
> these prices are?
>
> I've built 4 very nice strip kayaks and canoes over the past 10 years. This
> will be my first plywood boat, and by all accounts I expect it to be easier
> than the strippers except for the keel, in which case it may be nice to have
> that 'keel building booklet' offered by CSB. I've assembled a respectable
> shop, have read Devlin, Buehler, Bingham, Gougeons, Pardey, and others, and
> am comfortable working in wood, epoxy and glass. I'd like to mail a check
> directly to PCB, but can't help but wonder how much more useful or
> time-saving the additional materials offered by CSB might be. Some of you
> may remember my musings on the Navigator rig option a month or two ago, have
> since decided to go with the standard Micro rig and layout, so that doesn't
> enter into the decision any more. As for the price confusion, once I decide
> who I'm going to buy from, a phone call would quickly resolve it; if it's
> really double the price from PCB vs. CSB, that may enter into the decision,
> if it's only $25, it wouldn't. Although I realize each builder only had one
> set of plans and it would be hard for any one person to make a direct
> comparison between the two sources, I rely on the collective wisdom of the
> group to tell me: How much harder is it to build from PCB's plans vs. CSB's
> 'plans package'?
>
> I welcome all opinions, practical as well as philosophical.........
>
> thanks,
>
> Paul Lefebvre
> suffering from a bad bout of cabin fever on Cape Cod, need to start making
> some noise in the basement!
Paul - I bought my set of plans from CSD (now CSB) for 75$ a couple
years ago. I got the PCB quote from their office about one year ago.
I don't know whether the building key comes with the PCB plans, but I
would imagine it does since it has been written by Bolger himself.
I think that the plans from PCB contain all updates (including new
scantlings and a new rig - not just the Navigator option: this is an
enlarged Micro rig designed for lighter winds) and give you access to
assistance from the head office.
I've had no problems with my plans, except that the quality of the
blueprints is really barely sufficient.
Good luck with your project. You shouldn't have any problem in
building it. Happy New Year
Pippo
years ago. I got the PCB quote from their office about one year ago.
I don't know whether the building key comes with the PCB plans, but I
would imagine it does since it has been written by Bolger himself.
I think that the plans from PCB contain all updates (including new
scantlings and a new rig - not just the Navigator option: this is an
enlarged Micro rig designed for lighter winds) and give you access to
assistance from the head office.
I've had no problems with my plans, except that the quality of the
blueprints is really barely sufficient.
Good luck with your project. You shouldn't have any problem in
building it. Happy New Year
Pippo
--- Inbolger@egroups.com, "Paul A. Lefebvre, Jr." <paul@w...> wrote:
> OK, after months of lurking, at last I'm ready to join the ranks of
all you
> enthusiastic Micro owners and builders; I am all set to send in my
check for
> the plans.... my question is, where do I send it, and for how much?
>
> A check of CSB's web site this morning shows them apparently still
in
> business and selling micro plans,:" Six 18" X 22" blueprints,
Numbered
> Building Key, key expansion, Building Tips, Mast and Spar Making,
Keel
> Building booklet" ; the price listed on their web site is $75, and
appears
> to be current. Have seen more than one mention of how helpful the
building
> key and tips are, and these apparently do not come with PCB's
version of the
> plans, please correct me if I'm wrong;
>
> yesterday on Pippo's site I found this: Phil Bolger & Friends sell,
> obviously enough, plans for Micro and several hundreds more Bolger's
> designs. As of today (June 5th, 2000) the WWW site is under
construction.
> Copies of complete plans for Micro to build one boat are 150 US$ ,
including
> the Navigator option. For those who already have the plans, the
Navigator
> sheet costs 50 US$. I realize currency exchange and shipping rates
may have
> colored his take on the price of the plans, or not; In his building
log, he
> mentions some confusion in things like the roof camber, etc. that
may be
> dealt with in the CSB supplemental material, but I don't know
enough to
> judge.
>
> And on Chuck Merrill's web site, at the end of the scanned article
by PCB on
> the Navigator upgrade from MAIB, it says "plans for #422 Micro, on
seven
> 17"x 22"sheets, including improvements such as the Navigator, are
$100 and
> available from us at Phil Bolger and friends.... Navigator upgrade
sheet is
> $35." - not sure of the date of that publication......anybody know
how old
> these prices are?
>
> I've built 4 very nice strip kayaks and canoes over the past 10
years. This
> will be my first plywood boat, and by all accounts I expect it to
be easier
> than the strippers except for the keel, in which case it may be
nice to have
> that 'keel building booklet' offered by CSB. I've assembled a
respectable
> shop, have read Devlin, Buehler, Bingham, Gougeons, Pardey, and
others, and
> am comfortable working in wood, epoxy and glass. I'd like to mail a
check
> directly to PCB, but can't help but wonder how much more useful or
> time-saving the additional materials offered by CSB might be. Some
of you
> may remember my musings on the Navigator rig option a month or two
ago, have
> since decided to go with the standard Micro rig and layout, so that
doesn't
> enter into the decision any more. As for the price confusion, once
I decide
> who I'm going to buy from, a phone call would quickly resolve it;
if it's
> really double the price from PCB vs. CSB, that may enter into the
decision,
> if it's only $25, it wouldn't. Although I realize each builder only
had one
> set of plans and it would be hard for any one person to make a
direct
> comparison between the two sources, I rely on the collective wisdom
of the
> group to tell me: How much harder is it to build from PCB's plans
vs. CSB's
> 'plans package'?
>
> I welcome all opinions, practical as well as philosophical.........
>
> thanks,
>
> Paul Lefebvre
> suffering from a bad bout of cabin fever on Cape Cod, need to start
making
> some noise in the basement!
OK,
after months of lurking, at last I'm ready to join the ranks of all you
enthusiastic Micro owners and builders; I am all set to send in my check
for the plans.... my question is, where do I send it, and for how much?
A check of CSB's web site this morning shows
them apparently still in business and selling micro plans,:"Six 18" X 22" blueprints, Numbered Building Key, key
expansion, Building Tips, Mast and Spar Making, Keel Building booklet" ;
the price listed on their web site is $75, and appears to be current. Have seen
more than one mention of how helpful the building key and tips are, and these
apparently do not come with PCB's version of the plans, please correct me
if I'm wrong;
yesterday on Pippo's site I found this:Phil Bolger & Friendssell,
obviously enough, plans for Micro and several hundreds more Bolger's designs. As
of today (June 5th, 2000) the WWW site is under construction. Copies of complete
plans for Micro to build one boat are 150 US$ , including theNavigatoroption. For those who already have the plans, theNavigatorsheet costs
50 US$.I realize
currency exchange and shipping rates may have colored his take on the price of
the plans, or not; In his building log, he mentions some confusion in things
like the roof camber, etc. that may be dealt with in the CSB
supplemental material, but I don't know enough to judge.
And on Chuck Merrill's web site, at
the end of the scanned article by PCB on the Navigator upgrade from MAIB, it
says"plans for #422 Micro, on seven 17"x 22"sheets, including
improvements such as the Navigator, are $100 and available from us at Phil
Bolger and friends.... Navigator upgrade sheet is $35."- not
sure of the date of that publication......anybody know how old these prices
are?
I've
built 4 very nice strip kayaks and canoes over the past 10 years. This will be
my first plywood boat, and by all accounts I expect it to be easier than the
strippers except for the keel, in which case it may be nice to have that 'keel
building booklet' offered by CSB. I've assembled a respectable shop, have read
Devlin, Buehler, Bingham, Gougeons, Pardey, and others, and am comfortable
working in wood, epoxy and glass. I'd like to mail a check directly to
PCB, but can't help but wonder how much more useful or time-saving the
additional materials offered by CSB might be. Some of you may remember my
musings on the Navigator rig option a month or two ago, have since decided to go
with the standard Micro rig and layout, so that doesn't enter into the decision
any more. As for the price confusion, once I decide who I'm going to buy from, a
phone call would quickly resolve it; if it's really double the price from PCB
vs. CSB, that may enter into the decision, if it's only $25, it
wouldn't. Although I realize each builder only had one set of plans
and it would be hard for any one person to make a direct comparison between the
two sources, I rely on the collective wisdom of the group to tell me: How much
harder is it to build from PCB's plans vs. CSB's 'plans package'?
I
welcome all opinions, practical as well
as philosophical.........
thanks,
Paul
Lefebvre
suffering from a bad bout of cabin fever on Cape Cod,
need to start making some noise in the
basement!
Lot's of micro-heads out there, I know. But
has anyone made the Navigator conversion? Curious how that new rig and
cabin setup might work out in practice.
Edgar
Perhaps a 'Martha Jane' or AS-29 'Navigator' would better accomodate
two rambunctious med. size dogs and the privacy needs of your darling.
A talk with Phil would undoubtedly surface some very interesting,
viable alternatives. Or, consider towing a Ruben's Nymph with the two
dogs, porta potti and privacy dodger. Watch your step for that 3am
call. That's my 2 cents.
two rambunctious med. size dogs and the privacy needs of your darling.
A talk with Phil would undoubtedly surface some very interesting,
viable alternatives. Or, consider towing a Ruben's Nymph with the two
dogs, porta potti and privacy dodger. Watch your step for that 3am
call. That's my 2 cents.
under the circumstances you outline i'd forget it bob archibald
Charles and all,
The Thetford company (as I recall) has introduced an inflatable enclosed
head compartment. Basically it works like this ...there are four stout
tubes at the corners that inflate or deflate depending on the need. Side
panels are flat, as is the bottom. The front panel has a zipper and the top
has translucent material. It is supplied with an inflator/deflator pump.
The only drawback is the price...more than many of us will spend for our
boats. Standing Head Room. Standing Headroom. Regards, Warren
The Thetford company (as I recall) has introduced an inflatable enclosed
head compartment. Basically it works like this ...there are four stout
tubes at the corners that inflate or deflate depending on the need. Side
panels are flat, as is the bottom. The front panel has a zipper and the top
has translucent material. It is supplied with an inflator/deflator pump.
The only drawback is the price...more than many of us will spend for our
boats. Standing Head Room. Standing Headroom. Regards, Warren
Wow! The Micro Navigator looks great. If I built a Micro I'd want to
sail it on Lake Superior, and eventually in the Pacific Northwest, so
the protected pilothouse would be perfect. Always had a soft spot for
junk and gaff sails, so the rig is really appealing, too.
I have two reservations, however:
1) My wife nearly insists on a private head for the next boat. What are
others' experiences with such matters in the Micro? I assume one person
stays in the cockpit and the other goes below? At night, in port, maybe
the Porta Potti is moved to the cockpit in case Nature calls at 3:00 am?
2) We have 2 medium sized, rambunctious dogs. I suppose they are roughly
equivalent to a couple of 5 or 6 yr. old kids. Is this too crowded for
the Micro? Should I consider a "Long Micro Navigator"?
- Charles Buchwald
sail it on Lake Superior, and eventually in the Pacific Northwest, so
the protected pilothouse would be perfect. Always had a soft spot for
junk and gaff sails, so the rig is really appealing, too.
I have two reservations, however:
1) My wife nearly insists on a private head for the next boat. What are
others' experiences with such matters in the Micro? I assume one person
stays in the cockpit and the other goes below? At night, in port, maybe
the Porta Potti is moved to the cockpit in case Nature calls at 3:00 am?
2) We have 2 medium sized, rambunctious dogs. I suppose they are roughly
equivalent to a couple of 5 or 6 yr. old kids. Is this too crowded for
the Micro? Should I consider a "Long Micro Navigator"?
- Charles Buchwald
In a message dated 11/4/99 10:03:10 AM Central Standard Time,
chuckmerrell@...writes:
<< For a long time I've been thinking of setting up a small archival Web Site
with interesting material mostly for mailing list friends, so now I've done
that, and you can go to the following address and there you'll find an Adobe
.pdf containing the MICRO NAVIGATOR article from MAIB on January 1, 1999.
Here's the URL.
http://chux.homepage.com>>
And a Model by Jerry Scott @http://web.wt.net/~tbertw/jerry3.htm
or <A HREF="http://web.wt.net/~tbertw/jerry3.htm">Jerry Scott's Micro</A> Not
exactly a navigator but close...
larry (always surfing "plywood boats")
Palm Bay, Florida
<A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/henryclann/Boats/amatureboats.index.htm">The
Careenage & Blue Lagoon, A page for Home Built Boats & Owners!</A>
Remember; the Titanic was built by the professionals, but Noah's Ark by
amatuers!
chuckmerrell@...writes:
<< For a long time I've been thinking of setting up a small archival Web Site
with interesting material mostly for mailing list friends, so now I've done
that, and you can go to the following address and there you'll find an Adobe
.pdf containing the MICRO NAVIGATOR article from MAIB on January 1, 1999.
Here's the URL.
http://chux.homepage.com>>
And a Model by Jerry Scott @http://web.wt.net/~tbertw/jerry3.htm
or <A HREF="http://web.wt.net/~tbertw/jerry3.htm">Jerry Scott's Micro</A> Not
exactly a navigator but close...
larry (always surfing "plywood boats")
Palm Bay, Florida
<A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/henryclann/Boats/amatureboats.index.htm">The
Careenage & Blue Lagoon, A page for Home Built Boats & Owners!</A>
Remember; the Titanic was built by the professionals, but Noah's Ark by
amatuers!
Hello all,
----- Original Message -----
From: <dzi@...>
To: <bolger@egroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 1999 5:06 PM
Subject: [bolger] Micro Navigator
> Does anyone know of a picture of the Micro Navigator posted anywhere
> online?
For a long time I've been thinking of setting up a small archival Web Site
with interesting material mostly for mailing list friends, so now I've done
that, and you can go to the following address and there you'll find an Adobe
.pdf containing the MICRO NAVIGATOR article from MAIB on January 1, 1999.
Here's the URL.
http://chux.homepage.com
When I first saw the variant design (being a Micro purist), I didn't like it
much. Now, I've decided that the concept of a cruising micro that one can
operate from inside is maybe o.k., but I have reservations about Phil's
rig--mainly because it's untested, and as many of you know, I prefer the
Hasler-McLeod tried and true modern Junk Rig and use that in many of my
designs. Totally unconnected with this thread, I've been working on a
design for the last month (between everything else) which is a little bigger
than the Micro at 18 ft. which I've called "Test Bench" using a modified H-M
main and a Bolger leg-o-mutton sprit mizzen, and when I get it to the place
where it's fit for human consumption I'll share it with you all via the
above URL and on my primary web site.
Meantime if you haven't visited my Micro Pages, please do at:
www.boatdesign.com/micro/.
Cheers!
Chuck
***********************************
CHUCK MERRELL
MERRELL WATERCRAFT
P. O. Box 80264
Seattle, WA 98108-0264
(206) 764-1298
Email:chuck@...
Web Site:http://www.boatdesign.com
********************************************
I asked the same question several months ago without success, although I
did get some information from Bjørn Harbo(thanks, Bjorn). Is there anyone
willing to post a pic from the article in MAIB?
Thanks,
Ross Glover
Torquay, Australia.
At 05:06 PM 11/3/99 -0800, you wrote:
did get some information from Bjørn Harbo(thanks, Bjorn). Is there anyone
willing to post a pic from the article in MAIB?
Thanks,
Ross Glover
Torquay, Australia.
At 05:06 PM 11/3/99 -0800, you wrote:
>Does anyone know of a picture of the Micro Navigator posted anywhere
>online?
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>eGroup Home:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/
>http://www.egroups.com- Simplifying group communications
>
>
>
Does anyone know of a picture of the Micro Navigator posted anywhere
online?
online?