Re: Bolger watervan

Here is where I defer to those whose off-the-cuff knowledge of PB's work is more extensive than mine. Bee sounds a better option even than a power canoe.

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "ron_devries65" <ron_devries65@...> wrote:
>
> Which power canoe were you thinking of? Many square back canoes don't have much displacement to support a motor so weight is always an issue. Bee has a box keel and pointy front so it should have more Watervan style construction than the Skimmer.

Which power canoe were you thinking of? Many square back canoes don't have much displacement to support a motor so weight is always an issue. Bee has a box keel and pointy front so it should have more Watervan style construction than the Skimmer.

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Paraplegic Racehorse" <paraplegic.racehorse@...> wrote:
>
> Skimmer or any of the other box boats should translate well. Good choice. Might I recommend a power canoe, instead, though? It will give you more experience with stems and curves for the cutwater on the Watervan. It will be as easily car- or Watervan-topped as a Skimmer.
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "ron_devries65" <ron_devries65@> wrote:
> >
> > I'm planning to build a Skimmer over the summer as a fun first project. Maybe a Bee or Super Bee would be good small boat that translates to a Watervan somewhat.
>

I am sure the other was built in Austrailia or New Zeeland.

Skimmer or any of the other box boats should translate well. Good choice. Might I recommend a power canoe, instead, though? It will give you more experience with stems and curves for the cutwater on the Watervan. It will be as easily car- or Watervan-topped as a Skimmer.

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "ron_devries65" <ron_devries65@...> wrote:
>
> I'm planning to build a Skimmer over the summer as a fun first project. Maybe a Bee or Super Bee would be good small boat that translates to a Watervan somewhat.

I'm planning to build a Skimmer over the summer as a fun first project. Maybe a Bee or Super Bee would be good small boat that translates to a Watervan somewhat.

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Scot Mc Pherson <scot.mcpherson@...> wrote:
>
> You are right that many of the skills are tranferable, except tortured
> plywood and glassing. Those are skills you generally only learn by building
> boats. I am sure in 9 years you can get the boat complete, but you don't
> want to waste 2x or 3x worth of materials because you screwed up and need a
> new whole 4 pieces of plywood because the scarfed panel doesn't want to
> twist the way you thought it would, or because the panel was cut 3/4 inch
> too short because you didn't understand how the frames affect how long the
> panels need to be, or you put the scarf right on a frame. etc etc....There
> are lots of seemingly minor goofups that are minor, but cost money to fix.
> The bigger the boat the bigger the goof ups cost.
>
> Serious, do a small boat first, the kind that can take 6 weeks to finish
> over a couple hours per day, like a diablo or skiff or even something
> smaller like the tortoise. Or something a little bigger like the light
> schooner. It'll also give you something to play with and/or go fishing
> while you are working on the several year project.
>
>
> Scot McPherson, PMP CISSP MCSA
> Old Lyme, CT, USA
> Le Claire, IA, USA
> Scot McPherson | Linkedin <https://www.linkedin.com/in/scotmcpherson>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 10, 2012 at 9:59 AM, HOLLY VANDERENDE <hvanderende@...>wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> > Thanks for everyones input ( so far - keep the good advice
> > coming )
> > I realize the Water van is a big project
> > I've got 9 years to retirement , my thinking is plenty of time to
> > complete the Watervan .
> > Even thou this would be my first boat build , I done several house
> > reno's over the years
> > ( I know - not the same as a boat build , but the fundimental skills
> > should be transferable )
> > I like the idea of a model build first ( cardboard should do ) to
> > help visualize/ modivate the bigger project .
> > Still looking for any body that has actually made one - so I can pick
> > their brains .
> > Again thanks for everyones suggestions
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> > *From:* Paraplegic Racehorse <paraplegic.racehorse@...>
> > *To:*bolger@yahoogroups.com
> > *Sent:* Sunday, June 10, 2012 10:21:16 AM
> > *Subject:* [bolger] Re: Bolger watervan
> >
> >
> > When I built my Barton Skiff, last year, I built a paper model first using
> > the same part shapes, etc. It definitely helped me find spots that would be
> > tough and gave me lots of time to either figure it out or ask questions
> > from folks who'd built similar boats. I think building that skiff was a
> > pretty good preparation for building a larger boat. I second the
> > recommendation to build a dinghy before you tackle something the size of
> > Watervan.
> >
> > At least you'll have something to play in the water with while you build
> > the bigger boat! :)
> >
> > ~ Charles
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Scot McPherson <scot.mcpherson@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I don't build models first, but I do agree with Bruce that building
> > smaller boat first will help you prepare for dealing with bigger boat
> > issues.
> > >
> > > Scot McPherson, PMP CISSP MCSA
> > > Old Lyme, CT
> > > Le Claire, IA
> > >http://www.linkedin.com/in/scotmcpherson
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

Hi Holly,

Payson believed in doing boat models as a prep for the full build, and wrote 2 books on boat modeling.

www.instantboats.com/books.htm

Considering the size of the investment to make a larger boat, using Payson's books are a modest investment which will help you more fully walk through the assembly steps as it would apply to the full size boat. A boat model can be built as simply sticking some small pieces of wood together, or with more thought, it can be used as a simulation of the overall process of building the full sized boat.

An advantage of building a larger scale model of a live-aboard boat, is you can experiment with modifications for the interior layout (if you use temporary adhesive for the interior parts) and get a better idea how they will play out.

Do you currently have a boat to mess around in?

While a lot of house renovation skills do apply to building plywood boats, there are other essential techniques that aren't used in houses. Since this is a long term project, building a smaller/simpler/cheaper boat first is a good investment.

- It will allow you to practice skills new to you, and if you make mistakes, they will be comparatively inexpensive mistakes.

- It will allow you to experience how well, whatever you do, works out as you use the boat, and this experience and knowledge will be useful as you work on the bigger boat.

- You will have a tender available as an option for trips where that will be needed.

- If you don't currently have a boat, the more you mess about in a boat, that you own and control, the more you will have a clear idea about your preferences in outfitting the watervan.

Most people who have built and then used several boats have said that what they learned with the earlier boats increased their satisfaction with the later boats they built.

Building an Instant Boat

www.instantboats.com/boats.html

is a pretty small investment (especially the smaller ones intended as small tenders for medium sized boats) to help increase your satisfaction with a larger boat, that you have big plans for.

Using Payson's boatbuilding books and the instant boat plans he and Bolger put together, is a nearly "instant" way to quickly, easily, and inexpensively become experienced in building boats.

The best way to get the most experience quickly, would be to build an instant boat, which has detailed construction steps described in one of Payson's books, and before you do this, build a model of it, simulating construction of the full sized boat, and do this using his boat modeling books.

Payson's techniques evolved over the years, somewhat in parallel with Bolger's techniques, and so if possible, it would be good to build a practice boat which uses similar construction techniques as the watervan.

Sincerely,

Roger

----- Original Message -----
From:HOLLY VANDERENDE
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent:Sunday, June 10, 2012 7:59 AM
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: Bolger watervan

Thanks for everyones input ( so far - keep the good advice coming )
I realize the Water van is a big project
I've got 9 years to retirement , my thinking is plenty of time to complete the Watervan .
Even thou this would be my first boat build , I done several house reno's over the years
( I know - not the same as a boat build , but the fundimental skills should be transferable )
I like the idea of a model build first ( cardboard should do ) to help visualize/ modivate the bigger project .
Still looking for any body that has actually made one - so I can pick their brains .
Again thanks for everyones suggestions

You are right that many of the skills are tranferable, except tortured plywood and glassing. Those are skills you generally only learn by building boats. I am sure in 9 years you can get the boat complete, but you don't want to waste 2x or 3x worth of materials because you screwed up and need a new whole 4 pieces of plywood because the scarfed panel doesn't want to twist the way you thought it would, or because the panel was cut 3/4 inch too short because you didn't understand how the frames affect how long the panels need to be, or you put the scarf right on a frame. etc etc....There are lots of seemingly minor goofups that are minor, but cost money to fix. The bigger the boat the bigger the goof ups cost.

Serious, do a small boat first, the kind that can take 6 weeks to finish over a couple hours per day, like a diablo or skiff or even something smaller like the tortoise. Or something a little bigger like the light schooner. It'll also give you something to play with and/or go fishing while you are working on the several year project.

Scot McPherson, PMP CISSP MCSA
Old Lyme, CT, USA
Le Claire, IA, USA
Scot McPherson | Linkedin

On Sun, Jun 10, 2012 at 9:59 AM, HOLLY VANDERENDE<hvanderende@...>wrote:
Thanks for everyones input ( so far - keep the good advice coming )
I realize the Water van is a big project
I've got 9 years to retirement , my thinking is plenty of time to complete the Watervan .
Even thou this would be my first boat build , I done several house reno's over the years
( I know - not the same as a boat build , but the fundimental skills should be transferable )
I like the idea of a model build first ( cardboard should do ) to help visualize/ modivate the bigger project .
Still looking for any body that has actually made one - so I can pick their brains .
Again thanks for everyones suggestions

From:Paraplegic Racehorse <paraplegic.racehorse@...>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent:Sunday, June 10, 2012 10:21:16 AM
Subject:[bolger] Re: Bolger watervan

When I built my Barton Skiff, last year, I built a paper model first using the same part shapes, etc. It definitely helped me find spots that would be tough and gave me lots of time to either figure it out or ask questions from folks who'd built similar boats. I think building that skiff was a pretty good preparation for building a larger boat. I second the recommendation to build a dinghy before you tackle something the size of Watervan.

At least you'll have something to play in the water with while you build the bigger boat! :)

~ Charles

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Scot McPherson <scot.mcpherson@...> wrote:
>
> I don't build models first, but I do agree with Bruce that building smaller boat first will help you prepare for dealing with bigger boat issues.
>
> Scot McPherson, PMP CISSP MCSA
> Old Lyme, CT
> Le Claire, IA
>http://www.linkedin.com/in/scotmcpherson

Thanks for everyones input ( so far - keep the good advice coming )

I realize the Water van is a big project

I've got 9 years to retirement , my thinking is plenty of time to complete the Watervan .

Even thou this would be my first boat build , I done several house reno's over the years

( I know - not the same as a boat build , but the fundimental skills should be transferable )

I like the idea of a model build first ( cardboard should do ) to help visualize/ modivate the bigger project .

Still looking for any body that has actually made one - so I can pick their brains .

Again thanks for everyones suggestions

From:Paraplegic Racehorse <paraplegic.racehorse@...>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent:Sunday, June 10, 2012 10:21:16 AM
Subject:[bolger] Re: Bolger watervan

When I built my Barton Skiff, last year, I built a paper model first using the same part shapes, etc. It definitely helped me find spots that would be tough and gave me lots of time to either figure it out or ask questions from folks who'd built similar boats. I think building that skiff was a pretty good preparation for building a larger boat. I second the recommendation to build a dinghy before you tackle something the size of Watervan.

At least you'll have something to play in the water with while you build the bigger boat! :)

~ Charles

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Scot McPherson <scot.mcpherson@...> wrote:
>
> I don't build models first, but I do agree with Bruce that building smaller boat first will help you prepare for dealing with bigger boat issues.
>
> Scot McPherson, PMP CISSP MCSA
> Old Lyme, CT
> Le Claire, IA
>http://www.linkedin.com/in/scotmcpherson

I don't build models first, but I do agree with Bruce that building smaller boat first will help you prepare for dealing with bigger boat issues.

Scot McPherson, PMP CISSP MCSA

Old Lyme, CT

Le Claire, IA

http://www.linkedin.com/in/scotmcpherson

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 9, 2012, at 12:25 PM, BruceHallman <hallman@...> wrote:

I recall there have been two watervans built. You ask for advice, and my advice is for you to learn more about the watervan by building a model of one. Also, you can most efficiently learn how to build a big boat by building one or more little boats first.

On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 6:56 PM,<hvanderende@...>wrote:

Hi Everybody
Have anybody actually build a Watervan ?
I have been able to find a few picture on the web for the Watervan and am very interested in this design .
I would really like to hear from someone who has constructed this boat .
( ease of construction / tips/ what to watch out for etc )
Being a first time boat builder , I need all the word of wisdom I can get .
thanks for any info

I recall there have been two watervans built. You ask for advice, and my advice is for you to learn more about the watervan by building a model of one. Also, you can most efficiently learn how to build a big boat by building one or more little boats first.

On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 6:56 PM,<hvanderende@...>wrote:
Hi Everybody
Have anybody actually build a Watervan ?
I have been able to find a few picture on the web for the Watervan and am very interested in this design .
I would really like to hear from someone who has constructed this boat .
( ease of construction / tips/ what to watch out for etc )
Being a first time boat builder , I need all the word of wisdom I can get .
thanks for any info

Hi -

I spent a day on Stephan Guntermuths Watervan at the 09' Eastern Messabout. It's a fabulous boat with lots of space and we went from the Rancocas River north of Phila. down to South Philly and the naval Yard up the Shukyill a ways and back. I had the helm about an hour and it handles 2 -3' wakes pretty well. Had a 90hp Merc. It's a BIG project for anyone and unless you've got some serious woodworking experience I'd urge you to build something small first - maybe something that could be a tender for the Watervan. Don't know how to reach Steve any longer. There are pictures of the Watervan in albums in the Eastern Messabout site:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EasternMessabout/

Good luck .. seek lot's of advice from savvy guys here, at Duckworks - THE best boatbuilding sitehttp://www.duckworksmagazine.com/index.cfm
and elswhere

Bob Throne

Hi Everybody
Have anybody actually build a Watervan ?
I have been able to find a few picture on the web for the Watervan and am very interested in this design .
I would really like to hear from someone who has constructed this boat .
( ease of construction / tips/ what to watch out for etc )
Being a first time boat builder , I need all the word of wisdom I can get .
thanks for any info