Re: [bolger] Re: Catfish Beach Cruiser build. [1 Attachment]
Thanks for those pics - I hadn't seen that design before and I would be very interested in seeing more.
Here is a link to a sandbagger rig on a small 15' boat:Sandbagger rig option
 | Sandbagger rig option This is the big rig option for Bagger 15', a easy to build plywood or plank skiff. Perfect for exploring shallow water or roaring across the lake with a light 1... | ||||
Preview by Yahoo | |||||
Perhaps a bit too radical for me and my family, but if anyone is looking for a crew then call me :)
next design..Thanks, chief
On 3/21/15,owlnmole@...[bolger] <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> That link isn't working, so I am attaching the Mouser pic from
>https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/bolger/files/Mouser/
>https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/bolger/files/Mouser/.
>
>
>
>
>
No arguing with Phil nor Mike on this.
Of course the much-later centerboard CATFISH/BEACHCAT of course would follow the only slightly-less ‘much-later’ BOBCAT example of reasonably swift plywood construction, light-ish weight, and perfect trailer-ability...
I mean from the local-, to the regional-, to the national Sand-Bagger Mania !
Some of you may remember when during Phil later years several QUEEN MAB Catboats met in Boston at the M.I.T. Boathouse, with one arriving carried on the shoulder down from the apartment, down the road, into the Charles River, two inside a MiniVan, some on roof-racks...
Get-togethers are part of the building-&sailing-your-own approach – in delightful contrast to the social life sterile factory-baked hulls.
Did I mention that a BEACHCAT ‘Sandbagger’ really should be built, mastered under sail, and then video’d for widespread messing with hard-core LASER/420/505/etc.sailors’ self-respect ??
Just in case I was too subtle on this ...
If someone commits to one, there would be the modifications on separate sheet ( s).
Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
That link isn't working, so I am attaching the Mouser pic fromhttps://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/bolger/files/Mouser/.
If it matters to anyone, Mike O’Brien wrote up Mouser in Boat Design Quarterly #13. Mike owned and sailed a Mouser for 5 years and speaks highly of the design. He does note that PCB designed this boat a long time ago (probably in th 60’s) and that the v-bottom is not “developable” and, therefore, not suitable for plywood.
I note that Doug Hylan has tackled the non-developable bow sections on his Point Comfort Skiff by cold molding or double planking the forward third of the bottom. With epoxy and fiberglass sheathing, this is certainly a forgiving process.
JohnT
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:
bolger@yahoogroups.com ]
Sent:Saturday, March 21, 2015
2:22 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: Catfish
Beach Cruiser build.
Hello, all, from East Africa . I kicked around the idea of tackling Catfish years ago, but in the end I bought a set of Mouser plans, one of PCB's early designs inspired by a catboat he sailed himself in his youth.
Mouser
Sail - 1,220lbs displ.
#11-55- 16' x6'6"
SmallBoats Ch#17, BDQ#13
Trailer-Sailer, chine catboat
Thanks for your reply.
In relation to the cuddy, I was thinking of not much more than what I have seen drawn for a canvas wind shield held up by a support, easy enough to do something more permanent out of ply or even removeable when not needed, but to maintain looks something akin to the Cherbacco. Enough room to shelter from the wind, but slightly more than something like the SCAMP for example.
RE the board, I was just thinking that it's great not having the intrusion of a centreboard case in the middle of the cabin/cockpit. A daggerboard or even a pivot board offset to the edge of the bunk/seat would leave all of that wonderful legroom. Again, similar to the SCAMP. (Sorry I have mentioned SCAMP a couple of times now, it's a nice little boat, but I don't want one). I wasn't thinking about anything different at the back end at all.
I would be very interested to speak to anyonyone who has built and sailed a Catfish just to see how well they go with just the keel alone.
I'll keep thinking about this one. I have just restored a Hartley TS18 and have enjoyed it so far, but am considering if it is too big for my needs. A smaller boat with an unstayed mast and enough room for up to 4 people, the Catfish actually looks like a possibility.
Take care, and keep shovelling
David
No daggerboard offered on her.
One could be thought of, but I’d rather have the board come up by itself when it touches bottom, sailing in the catboat’s typical habitat – shallow coastal waters, estuaries, salt-marsh creeks.
Just a bigger BOBCAT.
No explicit cuddy-option on the plans, but obviously one could be figured out.
That would likely mean going with a barn-door rudder, thus moving the tiller further aft, along with the cockpit benches, which should open up a cuddy one might be able to huddle in/sleep one person in.
I’ll put this on my (endless !) list of ‘should-dos’, right after the ‘need-to-dos’, and well before the ‘like-to-dos’....
So make that
- barn-door rudder,
At least after those 108+” of snow this winter, there may be no more shoveling-duties to be scheduled instead of design and archival work...
Susanne
Susanne, is the "centerboard" actually in the center (i.e. through the keel) or is it off-center? Is a dagger board an option rather than a swinging board? Also, do the plans include a cuddy cabin option?
David
Adelaide
Susanne, is the "centerboard" actually in the center (i.e. through the keel) or is it off-center? Is a dagger board an option rather than a swinging board? Also, do the plans include a cuddy cabin option?
David
Adelaide
Just one condition of becoming a member of that rare club of ‘Sandbagger Sailors’.
Phil and I watched the Mystic Seaport Sandbagger do its thing, and it is indeed spectacular despite – or because of – the modest body of tidal waters at the Museum.
Whoa!
On Mar 19, 2015, at 9:59 AM,philbolger@...[bolger] <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:Fairly normal mast-height but scary bow-sprits, long booms and lofty gaffs.
https://www.google.com/search?q=sandbagger+sloop&biw=1920&bih=911&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=WdQKVbyAFZXLsAT93YGABA&ved=0CCwQsAQ&dpr=1
Good shot here as well, i.e. smooth water and a fine bow-wave... http://www.schoonerman.com/sailingterms/sandbag.htm
And : http://mobius.mysticseaport.org/detail.php?t=subjects&type=related&kv=3763
On BEACH CAT we may want to fixate on 300 sq. ft across ‘Sandbagger’-style main and jib vs. the ‘normal’ 139 ft.
Susanne Altenburger, PB&FSent: Thursday, March 19, 2015 9:50 AMSubject: Re: [bolger] Catfish Beach Cruiser build.
Hello Susanne and others:
Good morning all.
Catfish/Beach Cat Design #589 has been added to with an option to build just such a conventional catboat layout, adding 3 plans-sheets to the original four.The update now offers a centerboard between 6’8” long benches, with lockable locker-volumes ahead and behind for additional safetyAffordable thrills that might even challenge higher-end LASER-freaks since different reflexes would need drawing on.
The under-slung rudder was retained to allow a centerline outboard-location further aft.
Of course, a traditional barn-door type rudder as on BOBCAT would be doable.
Otherwise, the same hull and same sail-plan.
However (!) I’ve thought for a while, especially after the ‘manic’ study based on BOBCAT and featured in MAIB Vol.31, #7 Nov.’13, that a ‘Sandbagger’-style oversized rig would be a fine challenge for a bunch of folks to try to control in light summer winds.
On BOBCAT, sail-area went from 110 to 250 sq. ft. !! Reef early and often...
This wild rig would be a modular option to plant in a more or less standard hull.
When you’re about to sail her solo, then likely the regular rig would seem a prudent choice...
BEACH CAT (#589) would actually be even better suited for this ‘mega-caffination’ of a mild-mannered Catboat, since she’d be able to carry 3-4 folks well-centered fore-&-aft, with one perhaps hanging in a trapeze...
One major point to make is that you’d never make these shapes plane with this power !
Instead, a very light summer-breeze becomes the occasion to do full boiling hull-speed – a great visual spectacle.
With a ‘Sandbagger’ rig-geometry, the barn-door rudder would seem indeed called for.
Picture 2 to 3 to 5 of these showing off close to shore on a modest lake with onlookers exposed to quite a display.
Trees messing up the wind would add further spice to the proceedings.
IF enough folks chip in, I’ll add to BEACH CAT a ‘Sand-Bagger’ Option.
Then you’d have to have several built to put on a great show – all without nano-tubes, carbon-drama or any dosages of Unobtainium involved.
The original ‘Sandbagger of Greater New York City were indeed ‘working stiffs racers’
The package for the updated #589 is US $150.- (but no ‘SANDBAGGER’-Option yet !)
Susanne Altenburger, PB&FSent: Thursday, March 19, 2015 8:46 AMSubject: RE: [bolger] Re: Catfish Beach Cruiser build.My recollection is that Catfish was originally designed as a cross between a scaled up Tinycat and a birdwatcher. One was built to the plans and was not apparently successful. as the Interior was not comfortable and it was difficult to see and trim the sail. Phil talked about redrawing the plans to show a narrower deck and more conventional interior. I don’t know if he ever did this. I think that traditional Cape Cod Cats have great form stability and they are very resistant to capsize. Therefore, the need for the recovery provided by a Birdwatcher type cabin is not very great. If I were building one today, I would cut down the sheer line a little, install narrow side decks, a more conventional cuddy, and fore and aft thwarts. I would also put in a centerboard rather than the shallow fixed keel. Having said all that, I would also note that naval architects in general and phil in particular are all a lot smarter than I am, And before making ant significant changes in any design, I would consult with the designer (in this case, Suzanne).
Have fun.
JohnT
From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2015 7:32 AM
To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Catfish Beach Cruiser build.
Does anyone know of any other photos or websites showing the Catfish? This is the only one I can find.
Looks like great fun to me. Those rigs look like the dredging sailboats from Chesapeake and Delaware, what were they called? Sharpies, I guess this would make this one like a skipjack.Oh wait, that's one of the styles PB&F specialized in. :)
Scot McPherson, PMP CISSP MCSAShoreline, CTSent from my iPhoneWhoa!If I were 50 years younger such a rig would scare me to death!Now the pictures do!Thanks, Susanne, for the pics.Bill HowardNellysfordOn Mar 19, 2015, at 9:59 AM,philbolger@...[bolger] <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:Fairly normal mast-height but scary bow-sprits, long booms and lofty gaffs.
https://www.google.com/search?q=sandbagger+sloop&biw=1920&bih=911&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=WdQKVbyAFZXLsAT93YGABA&ved=0CCwQsAQ&dpr=1
Good shot here as well, i.e. smooth water and a fine bow-wave...http://www.schoonerman.com/sailingterms/sandbag.htm
And :http://mobius.mysticseaport.org/detail.php?t=subjects&type=related&kv=3763
On BEACH CAT we may want to fixate on 300 sq. ft across ‘Sandbagger’-style main and jib vs. the ‘normal’ 139 ft.
Susanne Altenburger, PB&FSent:Thursday, March 19, 2015 9:50 AMSubject:Re: [bolger] Catfish Beach Cruiser build.Hello Susanne and others:
Upstairs rests a partly built one-eighth scale BeachCat, from plans purchased from Instant Boats. Now I may have to finish the damn thing, just to understand better this conversation. Phil’s building key is rather succinct — and somewhat cryptic to this tyro — as are the instructions inBuild the New Instant Boatsby Dynamite Payson.What is “Sandbagger” rig-geometry?Bill HowardNellysford, VAOn Mar 19, 2015, at 9:29 AM,philbolger@...[bolger] <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:Good morning all.
Catfish/Beach Cat Design #589 has been added to with an option to build just such a conventional catboat layout, adding 3 plans-sheets to the original four.The update now offers a centerboard between 6’8” long benches, with lockable locker-volumes ahead and behind for additional safetyAffordable thrills that might even challenge higher-end LASER-freaks since different reflexes would need drawing on.
The under-slung rudder was retained to allow a centerline outboard-location further aft.
Of course, a traditional barn-door type rudder as on BOBCAT would be doable.
Otherwise, the same hull and same sail-plan.
However (!) I’ve thought for a while, especially after the ‘manic’ study based on BOBCAT and featured in MAIB Vol.31, #7 Nov.’13, that a ‘Sandbagger’-style oversized rig would be a fine challenge for a bunch of folks to try to control in light summer winds.
On BOBCAT, sail-area went from 110 to 250 sq. ft. !! Reef early and often...
This wild rig would be a modular option to plant in a more or less standard hull.
When you’re about to sail her solo, then likely the regular rig would seem a prudent choice...
BEACH CAT (#589) would actually be even better suited for this ‘mega-caffination’ of a mild-mannered Catboat, since she’d be able to carry 3-4 folks well-centered fore-&-aft, with one perhaps hanging in a trapeze...
One major point to make is that you’d never make these shapes plane with this power !
Instead, a very light summer-breeze becomes the occasion to do full boiling hull-speed – a great visual spectacle.
With a ‘Sandbagger’ rig-geometry, the barn-door rudder would seem indeed called for.
Picture 2 to 3 to 5 of these showing off close to shore on a modest lake with onlookers exposed to quite a display.
Trees messing up the wind would add further spice to the proceedings.
IF enough folks chip in, I’ll add to BEACH CAT a ‘Sand-Bagger’ Option.
Then you’d have to have several built to put on a great show – all without nano-tubes, carbon-drama or any dosages of Unobtainium involved.
The original ‘Sandbagger of Greater New York City were indeed ‘working stiffs racers’
The package for the updated #589 is US $150.- (but no ‘SANDBAGGER’-Option yet !)
Susanne Altenburger, PB&FSent:Thursday, March 19, 2015 8:46 AMSubject:RE: [bolger] Re: Catfish Beach Cruiser build.My recollection is that Catfish was originally designed as a cross between a scaled up Tinycat and a birdwatcher. One was built to the plans and was not apparently successful. as the Interior was not comfortable and it was difficult to see and trim the sail. Phil talked about redrawing the plans to show a narrower deck and more conventional interior. I don’t know if he ever did this. I think that traditional Cape Cod Cats have great form stability and they are very resistant to capsize. Therefore, the need for the recovery provided by a Birdwatcher type cabin is not very great. If I were building one today, I would cut down the sheer line a little, install narrow side decks, a more conventional cuddy, and fore and aft thwarts. I would also put in a centerboard rather than the shallow fixed keel. Having said all that, I would also note that naval architects in general and phil in particular are all a lot smarter than I am, And before making ant significant changes in any design, I would consult with the designer (in this case, Suzanne).
Have fun.
Scot McPherson, PMP CISSP MCSA
On Mar 19, 2015, at 10:31 AM, Bill Howardbillh39@...[bolger] <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Whoa!If I were 50 years younger such a rig would scare me to death!Now the pictures do!Thanks, Susanne, for the pics.Bill HowardNellysfordOn Mar 19, 2015, at 9:59 AM,philbolger@...[bolger] <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:Fairly normal mast-height but scary bow-sprits, long booms and lofty gaffs.
https://www.google.com/search?q=sandbagger+sloop&biw=1920&bih=911&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=WdQKVbyAFZXLsAT93YGABA&ved=0CCwQsAQ&dpr=1
Good shot here as well, i.e. smooth water and a fine bow-wave... http://www.schoonerman.com/sailingterms/sandbag.htm
And : http://mobius.mysticseaport.org/detail.php?t=subjects&type=related&kv=3763
On BEACH CAT we may want to fixate on 300 sq. ft across ‘Sandbagger’-style main and jib vs. the ‘normal’ 139 ft.
Susanne Altenburger, PB&FSent: Thursday, March 19, 2015 9:50 AMSubject: Re: [bolger] Catfish Beach Cruiser build.Hello Susanne and others:
Upstairs rests a partly built one-eighth scale BeachCat, from plans purchased from Instant Boats. Now I may have to finish the damn thing, just to understand better this conversation. Phil’s building key is rather succinct — and somewhat cryptic to this tyro — as are the instructions in Build the New Instant Boats by Dynamite Payson.What is “Sandbagger” rig-geometry?Bill HowardNellysford, VAGood morning all.
Catfish/Beach Cat Design #589 has been added to with an option to build just such a conventional catboat layout, adding 3 plans-sheets to the original four.The update now offers a centerboard between 6’8” long benches, with lockable locker-volumes ahead and behind for additional safetyAffordable thrills that might even challenge higher-end LASER-freaks since different reflexes would need drawing on.
The under-slung rudder was retained to allow a centerline outboard-location further aft.
Of course, a traditional barn-door type rudder as on BOBCAT would be doable.
Otherwise, the same hull and same sail-plan.
However (!) I’ve thought for a while, especially after the ‘manic’ study based on BOBCAT and featured in MAIB Vol.31, #7 Nov.’13, that a ‘Sandbagger’-style oversized rig would be a fine challenge for a bunch of folks to try to control in light summer winds.
On BOBCAT, sail-area went from 110 to 250 sq. ft. !! Reef early and often...
This wild rig would be a modular option to plant in a more or less standard hull.
When you’re about to sail her solo, then likely the regular rig would seem a prudent choice...
BEACH CAT (#589) would actually be even better suited for this ‘mega-caffination’ of a mild-mannered Catboat, since she’d be able to carry 3-4 folks well-centered fore-&-aft, with one perhaps hanging in a trapeze...
One major point to make is that you’d never make these shapes plane with this power !
Instead, a very light summer-breeze becomes the occasion to do full boiling hull-speed – a great visual spectacle.
With a ‘Sandbagger’ rig-geometry, the barn-door rudder would seem indeed called for.
Picture 2 to 3 to 5 of these showing off close to shore on a modest lake with onlookers exposed to quite a display.
Trees messing up the wind would add further spice to the proceedings.
IF enough folks chip in, I’ll add to BEACH CAT a ‘Sand-Bagger’ Option.
Then you’d have to have several built to put on a great show – all without nano-tubes, carbon-drama or any dosages of Unobtainium involved.
The original ‘Sandbagger of Greater New York City were indeed ‘working stiffs racers’
The package for the updated #589 is US $150.- (but no ‘SANDBAGGER’-Option yet !)
Susanne Altenburger, PB&FSent: Thursday, March 19, 2015 8:46 AMSubject: RE: [bolger] Re: Catfish Beach Cruiser build.My recollection is that Catfish was originally designed as a cross between a scaled up Tinycat and a birdwatcher. One was built to the plans and was not apparently successful. as the Interior was not comfortable and it was difficult to see and trim the sail. Phil talked about redrawing the plans to show a narrower deck and more conventional interior. I don’t know if he ever did this. I think that traditional Cape Cod Cats have great form stability and they are very resistant to capsize. Therefore, the need for the recovery provided by a Birdwatcher type cabin is not very great. If I were building one today, I would cut down the sheer line a little, install narrow side decks, a more conventional cuddy, and fore and aft thwarts. I would also put in a centerboard rather than the shallow fixed keel. Having said all that, I would also note that naval architects in general and phil in particular are all a lot smarter than I am, And before making ant significant changes in any design, I would consult with the designer (in this case, Suzanne).
Have fun.
JohnT
From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2015 7:32 AM
To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Catfish Beach Cruiser build.
Does anyone know of any other photos or websites showing the Catfish? This is the only one I can find.
On Mar 19, 2015, at 9:59 AM,philbolger@...[bolger] <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:Fairly normal mast-height but scary bow-sprits, long booms and lofty gaffs.
https://www.google.com/search?q=sandbagger+sloop&biw=1920&bih=911&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=WdQKVbyAFZXLsAT93YGABA&ved=0CCwQsAQ&dpr=1
Good shot here as well, i.e. smooth water and a fine bow-wave... http://www.schoonerman.com/sailingterms/sandbag.htm
And : http://mobius.mysticseaport.org/detail.php?t=subjects&type=related&kv=3763
On BEACH CAT we may want to fixate on 300 sq. ft across ‘Sandbagger’-style main and jib vs. the ‘normal’ 139 ft.
Susanne Altenburger, PB&FSent: Thursday, March 19, 2015 9:50 AMSubject: Re: [bolger] Catfish Beach Cruiser build.Hello Susanne and others:
Upstairs rests a partly built one-eighth scale BeachCat, from plans purchased from Instant Boats. Now I may have to finish the damn thing, just to understand better this conversation. Phil’s building key is rather succinct — and somewhat cryptic to this tyro — as are the instructions in Build the New Instant Boats by Dynamite Payson.What is “Sandbagger” rig-geometry?Bill HowardNellysford, VAGood morning all.
Catfish/Beach Cat Design #589 has been added to with an option to build just such a conventional catboat layout, adding 3 plans-sheets to the original four.The update now offers a centerboard between 6’8” long benches, with lockable locker-volumes ahead and behind for additional safetyAffordable thrills that might even challenge higher-end LASER-freaks since different reflexes would need drawing on.
The under-slung rudder was retained to allow a centerline outboard-location further aft.
Of course, a traditional barn-door type rudder as on BOBCAT would be doable.
Otherwise, the same hull and same sail-plan.
However (!) I’ve thought for a while, especially after the ‘manic’ study based on BOBCAT and featured in MAIB Vol.31, #7 Nov.’13, that a ‘Sandbagger’-style oversized rig would be a fine challenge for a bunch of folks to try to control in light summer winds.
On BOBCAT, sail-area went from 110 to 250 sq. ft. !! Reef early and often...
This wild rig would be a modular option to plant in a more or less standard hull.
When you’re about to sail her solo, then likely the regular rig would seem a prudent choice...
BEACH CAT (#589) would actually be even better suited for this ‘mega-caffination’ of a mild-mannered Catboat, since she’d be able to carry 3-4 folks well-centered fore-&-aft, with one perhaps hanging in a trapeze...
One major point to make is that you’d never make these shapes plane with this power !
Instead, a very light summer-breeze becomes the occasion to do full boiling hull-speed – a great visual spectacle.
With a ‘Sandbagger’ rig-geometry, the barn-door rudder would seem indeed called for.
Picture 2 to 3 to 5 of these showing off close to shore on a modest lake with onlookers exposed to quite a display.
Trees messing up the wind would add further spice to the proceedings.
IF enough folks chip in, I’ll add to BEACH CAT a ‘Sand-Bagger’ Option.
Then you’d have to have several built to put on a great show – all without nano-tubes, carbon-drama or any dosages of Unobtainium involved.
The original ‘Sandbagger of Greater New York City were indeed ‘working stiffs racers’
The package for the updated #589 is US $150.- (but no ‘SANDBAGGER’-Option yet !)
Susanne Altenburger, PB&FSent: Thursday, March 19, 2015 8:46 AMSubject: RE: [bolger] Re: Catfish Beach Cruiser build.My recollection is that Catfish was originally designed as a cross between a scaled up Tinycat and a birdwatcher. One was built to the plans and was not apparently successful. as the Interior was not comfortable and it was difficult to see and trim the sail. Phil talked about redrawing the plans to show a narrower deck and more conventional interior. I don’t know if he ever did this. I think that traditional Cape Cod Cats have great form stability and they are very resistant to capsize. Therefore, the need for the recovery provided by a Birdwatcher type cabin is not very great. If I were building one today, I would cut down the sheer line a little, install narrow side decks, a more conventional cuddy, and fore and aft thwarts. I would also put in a centerboard rather than the shallow fixed keel. Having said all that, I would also note that naval architects in general and phil in particular are all a lot smarter than I am, And before making ant significant changes in any design, I would consult with the designer (in this case, Suzanne).
Have fun.
JohnT
From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2015 7:32 AM
To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Catfish Beach Cruiser build.
Does anyone know of any other photos or websites showing the Catfish? This is the only one I can find.
https://www.google.com/search?q=sandbagger+sloop&biw=1920&bih=911&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=WdQKVbyAFZXLsAT93YGABA&ved=0CCwQsAQ&dpr=1
Good shot here as well, i.e. smooth water and a fine bow-wave...http://www.schoonerman.com/sailingterms/sandbag.htm
And :http://mobius.mysticseaport.org/detail.php?t=subjects&type=related&kv=3763
On BEACH CAT we may want to fixate on 300 sq. ft across ‘Sandbagger’-style main and jib vs. the ‘normal’ 139 ft.
Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
Hello Susanne and others:
On Mar 19, 2015, at 9:29 AM,philbolger@...[bolger] <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:Good morning all.
Catfish/Beach Cat Design #589 has been added to with an option to build just such a conventional catboat layout, adding 3 plans-sheets to the original four.The update now offers a centerboard between 6’8” long benches, with lockable locker-volumes ahead and behind for additional safetyAffordable thrills that might even challenge higher-end LASER-freaks since different reflexes would need drawing on.
The under-slung rudder was retained to allow a centerline outboard-location further aft.
Of course, a traditional barn-door type rudder as on BOBCAT would be doable.
Otherwise, the same hull and same sail-plan.
However (!) I’ve thought for a while, especially after the ‘manic’ study based on BOBCAT and featured in MAIB Vol.31, #7 Nov.’13, that a ‘Sandbagger’-style oversized rig would be a fine challenge for a bunch of folks to try to control in light summer winds.
On BOBCAT, sail-area went from 110 to 250 sq. ft. !! Reef early and often...
This wild rig would be a modular option to plant in a more or less standard hull.
When you’re about to sail her solo, then likely the regular rig would seem a prudent choice...
BEACH CAT (#589) would actually be even better suited for this ‘mega-caffination’ of a mild-mannered Catboat, since she’d be able to carry 3-4 folks well-centered fore-&-aft, with one perhaps hanging in a trapeze...
One major point to make is that you’d never make these shapes plane with this power !
Instead, a very light summer-breeze becomes the occasion to do full boiling hull-speed – a great visual spectacle.
With a ‘Sandbagger’ rig-geometry, the barn-door rudder would seem indeed called for.
Picture 2 to 3 to 5 of these showing off close to shore on a modest lake with onlookers exposed to quite a display.
Trees messing up the wind would add further spice to the proceedings.
IF enough folks chip in, I’ll add to BEACH CAT a ‘Sand-Bagger’ Option.
Then you’d have to have several built to put on a great show – all without nano-tubes, carbon-drama or any dosages of Unobtainium involved.
The original ‘Sandbagger of Greater New York City were indeed ‘working stiffs racers’
The package for the updated #589 is US $150.- (but no ‘SANDBAGGER’-Option yet !)
Susanne Altenburger, PB&FSent: Thursday, March 19, 2015 8:46 AMSubject: RE: [bolger] Re: Catfish Beach Cruiser build.
My recollection is that Catfish was originally designed as a cross between a scaled up Tinycat and a birdwatcher. One was built to the plans and was not apparently successful. as the Interior was not comfortable and it was difficult to see and trim the sail. Phil talked about redrawing the plans to show a narrower deck and more conventional interior. I don’t know if he ever did this. I think that traditional Cape Cod Cats have great form stability and they are very resistant to capsize. Therefore, the need for the recovery provided by a Birdwatcher type cabin is not very great. If I were building one today, I would cut down the sheer line a little, install narrow side decks, a more conventional cuddy, and fore and aft thwarts. I would also put in a centerboard rather than the shallow fixed keel. Having said all that, I would also note that naval architects in general and phil in particular are all a lot smarter than I am, And before making ant significant changes in any design, I would consult with the designer (in this case, Suzanne).
Have fun.
JohnT
From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2015 7:32
AM
To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Catfish Beach Cruiser
build.
Does anyone know of any other photos or websites showing the Catfish? This is the only one I can find.
On Mar 19, 2015, at 9:29 AM,philbolger@...[bolger] <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:Good morning all.
Catfish/Beach Cat Design #589 has been added to with an option to build just such a conventional catboat layout, adding 3 plans-sheets to the original four.The update now offers a centerboard between 6’8” long benches, with lockable locker-volumes ahead and behind for additional safetyAffordable thrills that might even challenge higher-end LASER-freaks since different reflexes would need drawing on.
The under-slung rudder was retained to allow a centerline outboard-location further aft.
Of course, a traditional barn-door type rudder as on BOBCAT would be doable.
Otherwise, the same hull and same sail-plan.
However (!) I’ve thought for a while, especially after the ‘manic’ study based on BOBCAT and featured in MAIB Vol.31, #7 Nov.’13, that a ‘Sandbagger’-style oversized rig would be a fine challenge for a bunch of folks to try to control in light summer winds.
On BOBCAT, sail-area went from 110 to 250 sq. ft. !! Reef early and often...
This wild rig would be a modular option to plant in a more or less standard hull.
When you’re about to sail her solo, then likely the regular rig would seem a prudent choice...
BEACH CAT (#589) would actually be even better suited for this ‘mega-caffination’ of a mild-mannered Catboat, since she’d be able to carry 3-4 folks well-centered fore-&-aft, with one perhaps hanging in a trapeze...
One major point to make is that you’d never make these shapes plane with this power !
Instead, a very light summer-breeze becomes the occasion to do full boiling hull-speed – a great visual spectacle.
With a ‘Sandbagger’ rig-geometry, the barn-door rudder would seem indeed called for.
Picture 2 to 3 to 5 of these showing off close to shore on a modest lake with onlookers exposed to quite a display.
Trees messing up the wind would add further spice to the proceedings.
IF enough folks chip in, I’ll add to BEACH CAT a ‘Sand-Bagger’ Option.
Then you’d have to have several built to put on a great show – all without nano-tubes, carbon-drama or any dosages of Unobtainium involved.
The original ‘Sandbagger of Greater New York City were indeed ‘working stiffs racers’
The package for the updated #589 is US $150.- (but no ‘SANDBAGGER’-Option yet !)
Susanne Altenburger, PB&FSent: Thursday, March 19, 2015 8:46 AMSubject: RE: [bolger] Re: Catfish Beach Cruiser build.My recollection is that Catfish was originally designed as a cross between a scaled up Tinycat and a birdwatcher. One was built to the plans and was not apparently successful. as the Interior was not comfortable and it was difficult to see and trim the sail. Phil talked about redrawing the plans to show a narrower deck and more conventional interior. I don’t know if he ever did this. I think that traditional Cape Cod Cats have great form stability and they are very resistant to capsize. Therefore, the need for the recovery provided by a Birdwatcher type cabin is not very great. If I were building one today, I would cut down the sheer line a little, install narrow side decks, a more conventional cuddy, and fore and aft thwarts. I would also put in a centerboard rather than the shallow fixed keel. Having said all that, I would also note that naval architects in general and phil in particular are all a lot smarter than I am, And before making ant significant changes in any design, I would consult with the designer (in this case, Suzanne).
Have fun.
JohnT
From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2015 7:32 AM
To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Catfish Beach Cruiser build.
Does anyone know of any other photos or websites showing the Catfish? This is the only one I can find.
Catfish/Beach Cat Design #589 has been added to with an option to build just such a conventional catboat layout, adding 3 plans-sheets to the original four.
The under-slung rudder was retained to allow a centerline outboard-location further aft.
Of course, a traditional barn-door type rudder as on BOBCAT would be doable.
Otherwise, the same hull and same sail-plan.
However (!) I’ve thought for a while, especially after the ‘manic’ study based on BOBCAT and featured in MAIB Vol.31, #7 Nov.’13, that a ‘Sandbagger’-style oversized rig would be a fine challenge for a bunch of folks to try to control in light summer winds.
On BOBCAT, sail-area went from 110 to 250 sq. ft. !! Reef early and often...
This wild rig would be a modular option to plant in a more or less standard hull.
When you’re about to sail her solo, then likely the regular rig would seem a prudent choice...
BEACH CAT (#589) would actually be even better suited for this ‘mega-caffination’ of a mild-mannered Catboat, since she’d be able to carry 3-4 folks well-centered fore-&-aft, with one perhaps hanging in a trapeze...
One major point to make is that you’d never make these shapes plane with this power !
Instead, a very light summer-breeze becomes the occasion to do full boiling hull-speed – a great visual spectacle.
With a ‘Sandbagger’ rig-geometry, the barn-door rudder would seem indeed called for.
Picture 2 to 3 to 5 of these showing off close to shore on a modest lake with onlookers exposed to quite a display.
Trees messing up the wind would add further spice to the proceedings.
IF enough folks chip in, I’ll add to BEACH CAT a ‘Sand-Bagger’ Option.
Then you’d have to have several built to put on a great show – all without nano-tubes, carbon-drama or any dosages of Unobtainium involved.
The original ‘Sandbagger of Greater New York City were indeed ‘working stiffs racers’
The package for the updated #589 is US $150.- (but no ‘SANDBAGGER’-Option yet !)
Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
My recollection is that Catfish was originally designed as a cross between a scaled up Tinycat and a birdwatcher. One was built to the plans and was not apparently successful. as the Interior was not comfortable and it was difficult to see and trim the sail. Phil talked about redrawing the plans to show a narrower deck and more conventional interior. I don’t know if he ever did this. I think that traditional Cape Cod Cats have great form stability and they are very resistant to capsize. Therefore, the need for the recovery provided by a Birdwatcher type cabin is not very great. If I were building one today, I would cut down the sheer line a little, install narrow side decks, a more conventional cuddy, and fore and aft thwarts. I would also put in a centerboard rather than the shallow fixed keel. Having said all that, I would also note that naval architects in general and phil in particular are all a lot smarter than I am, And before making ant significant changes in any design, I would consult with the designer (in this case, Suzanne).
Have fun.
JohnT
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto: bolger@yahoogroups.com ]
Sent:Thursday, March 19, 2015
7:32 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject:[bolger] Re: Catfish Beach Cruiser
build.
Does anyone know of any other photos or websites showing the Catfish? This is the only one I can find.
My recollection is that Catfish was originally designed as a cross between a scaled up Tinycat and a birdwatcher. One was built to the plans and was not apparently successful. as the Interior was not comfortable and it was difficult to see and trim the sail. Phil talked about redrawing the plans to show a narrower deck and more conventional interior. I don’t know if he ever did this. I think that traditional Cape Cod Cats have great form stability and they are very resistant to capsize. Therefore, the need for the recovery provided by a Birdwatcher type cabin is not very great. If I were building one today, I would cut down the sheer line a little, install narrow side decks, a more conventional cuddy, and fore and aft thwarts. I would also put in a centerboard rather than the shallow fixed keel. Having said all that, I would also note that naval architects in general and phil in particular are all a lot smarter than I am, And before making ant significant changes in any design, I would consult with the designer (in this case, Suzanne).
Have fun.
JohnT
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:
bolger@yahoogroups.com ]
Sent:Thursday, March 19, 2015
7:32 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject:[bolger] Re: Catfish
Beach Cruiser build.
Does anyone know of any other photos or websites showing the Catfish? This is the only one I can find.