Re: [bolger] Honda OB's
> Frank Bales wrote:
> > Please define high thrust; what exactly does it mean?
On Thu, 31 Aug 2000, Clyde S. Wisner wrote:
> Larger, slower turning prop, I think. Yamaha makes a geared down
> version with larger prop version of 9.9 and 50 hp 4 cycle. I wondered
> if anybody else did. Clyde
I have a Nissan 5hp 4-stroke. It comes with a "medium" pitch prop. I
bought the "displacement speed" prop, with less pitch. Man, it makes a
difference! I can now spin my boat in circles at hull speed! (Not that
you'd want to do that everyday.) But it makes my boat move with real
authority.
Yamaha 'high thrust' motors also have higher-output alternators, and
something about the thru-hub exhaust design is supposed to make them more
effective in reverse. (In case you're coming into the slip too hot in your
heavy sailboat.) I had one on a Pearson 26, terrific motor.
something about the thru-hub exhaust design is supposed to make them more
effective in reverse. (In case you're coming into the slip too hot in your
heavy sailboat.) I had one on a Pearson 26, terrific motor.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Clyde S. Wisner [mailto:clydewis@...]
> Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2000 8:49 AM
> To:bolger@egroups.com
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Honda OB's
>
>
>
> Larger, slower turning prop, I think. Yamaha makes a geared down version
> with larger prop version of 9.9 and 50 hp 4 cycle. I wondered if anybody
> else did. Clyde
>
> Frank Bales wrote:
>
> >
> > Please define high thrust; what exactly does it mean?
> >
> > Frank Bales
> > Staunton, VA
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Clyde S. Wisner [mailto:clydewis@...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2000 7:28 AM
> > To:bolger@egroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [bolger] Honda OB's
> >
> > Does anybody make a high thrust besides Yamaha? Clyde
> > Phil Smith wrote:
> >
> > > The key thing to look for with regard to outboards is the phrase "high
> > > thrust." This usually (always) means four cycle, lower gearing and
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing
> > - stay on topic
> > - use punctuation
> > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> > - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing
> > - stay on topic
> > - use punctuation
> > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> > - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing
> - stay on topic
> - use punctuation
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
>
Larger, slower turning prop, I think. Yamaha makes a geared down version
with larger prop version of 9.9 and 50 hp 4 cycle. I wondered if anybody
else did. Clyde
Frank Bales wrote:
with larger prop version of 9.9 and 50 hp 4 cycle. I wondered if anybody
else did. Clyde
Frank Bales wrote:
>
> Please define high thrust; what exactly does it mean?
>
> Frank Bales
> Staunton, VA
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Clyde S. Wisner [mailto:clydewis@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2000 7:28 AM
> To:bolger@egroups.com
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Honda OB's
>
> Does anybody make a high thrust besides Yamaha? Clyde
> Phil Smith wrote:
>
> > The key thing to look for with regard to outboards is the phrase "high
> > thrust." This usually (always) means four cycle, lower gearing and
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing
> - stay on topic
> - use punctuation
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing
> - stay on topic
> - use punctuation
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
Please define high thrust; what exactly does it mean?
Frank Bales
Staunton, VA
-----Original Message-----
From: Clyde S. Wisner [mailto:clydewis@...]
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2000 7:28 AM
To:bolger@egroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Honda OB's
Does anybody make a high thrust besides Yamaha? Clyde
Phil Smith wrote:
- no cursing
- stay on topic
- use punctuation
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
- add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
Frank Bales
Staunton, VA
-----Original Message-----
From: Clyde S. Wisner [mailto:clydewis@...]
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2000 7:28 AM
To:bolger@egroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Honda OB's
Does anybody make a high thrust besides Yamaha? Clyde
Phil Smith wrote:
> The key thing to look for with regard to outboards is the phrase "highBolger rules!!!
> thrust." This usually (always) means four cycle, lower gearing and
- no cursing
- stay on topic
- use punctuation
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
- add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
Thanks Peter, good advice about dealers. I have experience in the auto
industry and have heard from friends that have worked with Honda auto
(actually any Japanese auto company) that their attention to continuous
improvement and quality is fanatical. The U.S. auto industry has made great
strides in recent years in these areas (should have listened to Dr. Demming
sooner), but they still can't touch the Japanese in continuous improvement.
I believe that the same is true for the marine engine industry.
Frank Bales
Staunton, VA
-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Vanderwaart [mailto:pvanderw@...]
Sent: Monday, August 28, 2000 1:33 PM
To:bolger@egroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Honda OB's
I don't have any info except what was in the message itself.
What's more, I don't have any experience, either first or second
hand, with recent Honda OB's myself.
Once upon a time, maybe 10-15 years ago, there were several problems
that I saw published or heard about from friends where Honda sailboat
OB's were disabled by the failure of a particular electrical part. It
was an easy $60 repair, but the engine wouldn't run at all until the
part was replaced, and sometimes the part was hard to come by. I
haven't heard anything like that for some time (not that I
necessarily would), and I assume that Honda fixed the problem at the
source long ago.
It has been my impression that Honda takes great pride in
engineering, and in being on the leading edge of design. When you
take that attitude, you are going to make a mistake now and then.
My own feeling on OB's is that they all take a lot of maintenance,
and any brand is going to be back in the shop now and then.
Therefore, the reputation and quality of the dealer, and his attitude
to you as a customer, is just as important as the engine itself.
Peter
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing
- stay on topic
- use punctuation
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
- add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
industry and have heard from friends that have worked with Honda auto
(actually any Japanese auto company) that their attention to continuous
improvement and quality is fanatical. The U.S. auto industry has made great
strides in recent years in these areas (should have listened to Dr. Demming
sooner), but they still can't touch the Japanese in continuous improvement.
I believe that the same is true for the marine engine industry.
Frank Bales
Staunton, VA
-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Vanderwaart [mailto:pvanderw@...]
Sent: Monday, August 28, 2000 1:33 PM
To:bolger@egroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Honda OB's
I don't have any info except what was in the message itself.
What's more, I don't have any experience, either first or second
hand, with recent Honda OB's myself.
Once upon a time, maybe 10-15 years ago, there were several problems
that I saw published or heard about from friends where Honda sailboat
OB's were disabled by the failure of a particular electrical part. It
was an easy $60 repair, but the engine wouldn't run at all until the
part was replaced, and sometimes the part was hard to come by. I
haven't heard anything like that for some time (not that I
necessarily would), and I assume that Honda fixed the problem at the
source long ago.
It has been my impression that Honda takes great pride in
engineering, and in being on the leading edge of design. When you
take that attitude, you are going to make a mistake now and then.
My own feeling on OB's is that they all take a lot of maintenance,
and any brand is going to be back in the shop now and then.
Therefore, the reputation and quality of the dealer, and his attitude
to you as a customer, is just as important as the engine itself.
Peter
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing
- stay on topic
- use punctuation
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
- add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
Does anybody make a high thrust besides Yamaha? Clyde
Phil Smith wrote:
Phil Smith wrote:
> The key thing to look for with regard to outboards is the phrase "high
> thrust." This usually (always) means four cycle, lower gearing and
In a message dated 8/28/2000 1:22:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time,pbs@...
writes:
<< Please make a Loose Moose 2 thread or conference so that the accumulated
wisdom can be accessed. When I get frustrated at work or with life in
general I think about buying a couple of hundred sheets of plywood and
making a Loose Moose.
discussion would be on-list. Steve Anderson
writes:
<< Please make a Loose Moose 2 thread or conference so that the accumulated
wisdom can be accessed. When I get frustrated at work or with life in
general I think about buying a couple of hundred sheets of plywood and
making a Loose Moose.
>>I've always found this an interesting boat too - I too would hope the
discussion would be on-list. Steve Anderson
I don't have any info except what was in the message itself.
What's more, I don't have any experience, either first or second
hand, with recent Honda OB's myself.
Once upon a time, maybe 10-15 years ago, there were several problems
that I saw published or heard about from friends where Honda sailboat
OB's were disabled by the failure of a particular electrical part. It
was an easy $60 repair, but the engine wouldn't run at all until the
part was replaced, and sometimes the part was hard to come by. I
haven't heard anything like that for some time (not that I
necessarily would), and I assume that Honda fixed the problem at the
source long ago.
It has been my impression that Honda takes great pride in
engineering, and in being on the leading edge of design. When you
take that attitude, you are going to make a mistake now and then.
My own feeling on OB's is that they all take a lot of maintenance,
and any brand is going to be back in the shop now and then.
Therefore, the reputation and quality of the dealer, and his attitude
to you as a customer, is just as important as the engine itself.
Peter
What's more, I don't have any experience, either first or second
hand, with recent Honda OB's myself.
Once upon a time, maybe 10-15 years ago, there were several problems
that I saw published or heard about from friends where Honda sailboat
OB's were disabled by the failure of a particular electrical part. It
was an easy $60 repair, but the engine wouldn't run at all until the
part was replaced, and sometimes the part was hard to come by. I
haven't heard anything like that for some time (not that I
necessarily would), and I assume that Honda fixed the problem at the
source long ago.
It has been my impression that Honda takes great pride in
engineering, and in being on the leading edge of design. When you
take that attitude, you are going to make a mistake now and then.
My own feeling on OB's is that they all take a lot of maintenance,
and any brand is going to be back in the shop now and then.
Therefore, the reputation and quality of the dealer, and his attitude
to you as a customer, is just as important as the engine itself.
Peter
lm2 wrote:
wisdom can be accessed. When I get frustrated at work or with life in
general I think about buying a couple of hundred sheets of plywood and
making a Loose Moose.
Phil Smith
>Please make a Loose Moose 2 thread or conference so that the accumulated
> The Yamaha was replaced with the Honda because I was working with the local
> Honda dealer and they made me a great deal ( so good in fact that I bought
> two!) The Yamaha had pushed us over 2300 miles in a year long tour of the
> european canal system ( not to mention our circumnavigation of the Med and
> our West African trip)and while still performing well we thought it was time
> for a new motor...by the way we sold the Yamaha to a guy on a Multihull and
> it is still going strong.
>
> I would be happy to discuss LM2 with potential builders off list so drop us
> a line if you have any questions.
>
> Bob & Sheila
> St Thomas USVI
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Frank Bales <fbales@...>
> To: <bolger@egroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, August 28, 2000 1:48 PM
> Subject: RE: [bolger] Honda OB's
>
> > Bob, why'd you replace the Yamaha?
> >
> > I understand the Loose Moose 2 was lost in a lightning storm (very sad).
> > Would you build another AS39? What would you change? The reason I ask is
> I
> > will retire in 11 years and want to build a boat to live aboard and do
> some
> > serious sailing. I saw (at Square Boats site) that the Loose Moose 2 made
> > an Atlantic crossing, and I believe you actually built it in France.
> > Anyway, if you would like to offer any advice I'd appreciate it.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing
> > - stay on topic
> > - use punctuation
> > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> > - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> >
> >
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing
> - stay on topic
> - use punctuation
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
wisdom can be accessed. When I get frustrated at work or with life in
general I think about buying a couple of hundred sheets of plywood and
making a Loose Moose.
Phil Smith
The key thing to look for with regard to outboards is the phrase "high
thrust." This usually (always) means four cycle, lower gearing and
larger propellers. Phil and Susanne have a Yamaha 50 hp high thrust
outboards on their runabout and they are very happy with it. They've had
it for several years, perhaps five, and have had next to no problems
with it.
The problem with outboards for large power cruisers, again according to
Phil and Susanne, is a lack of electrical generating capacity. Whether
this could be addressed by either rewinding the outboard's built in
alternator or by placing an external alternator atop the motor's shroud
(much like the hydraulic drives that lobster men use for pot haulers)
remains to be seen.
PB&F think that outboard manufacturers are missing a sizable unserved
market segment by not producing more high thrust outboards and by not
equipping those that are produced with substantial electrical generating
capacity.
Phil Smith
thrust." This usually (always) means four cycle, lower gearing and
larger propellers. Phil and Susanne have a Yamaha 50 hp high thrust
outboards on their runabout and they are very happy with it. They've had
it for several years, perhaps five, and have had next to no problems
with it.
The problem with outboards for large power cruisers, again according to
Phil and Susanne, is a lack of electrical generating capacity. Whether
this could be addressed by either rewinding the outboard's built in
alternator or by placing an external alternator atop the motor's shroud
(much like the hydraulic drives that lobster men use for pot haulers)
remains to be seen.
PB&F think that outboard manufacturers are missing a sizable unserved
market segment by not producing more high thrust outboards and by not
equipping those that are produced with substantial electrical generating
capacity.
Phil Smith
I would be 99.99% sure they are talking about the same thing, 15 and 20
inches NOMINAL. No boats I know of have a fixed waterline, so I would
choose the length that puts the prop under the water.
Think of Schrodinger's Cat - get up and walk to the back, measure, it's
20", walk back and sit down, it's 22.5", but you can't prove it...;-}
High-performance boats like fast bass boats will use both the motor tilt
and a jack plate (auto or manual) to trim the motor up to just below
cavitation to lessen drag and gain a few mph. The starting point is to put
the anti-cavitation place just below the water if you are trying to go fast.
In a displacement boat, like a 3.5 pushing a sailboat, you have no choice
but to get the prop as deep as possible to prevent ventilation by waves and
pitching.
Gregg Carlson
At 02:10 PM 8/28/2000 -0000, you wrote:
inches NOMINAL. No boats I know of have a fixed waterline, so I would
choose the length that puts the prop under the water.
Think of Schrodinger's Cat - get up and walk to the back, measure, it's
20", walk back and sit down, it's 22.5", but you can't prove it...;-}
High-performance boats like fast bass boats will use both the motor tilt
and a jack plate (auto or manual) to trim the motor up to just below
cavitation to lessen drag and gain a few mph. The starting point is to put
the anti-cavitation place just below the water if you are trying to go fast.
In a displacement boat, like a 3.5 pushing a sailboat, you have no choice
but to get the prop as deep as possible to prevent ventilation by waves and
pitching.
Gregg Carlson
At 02:10 PM 8/28/2000 -0000, you wrote:
> Does anyone have experience with Honda outboards? In reading
>through their specifications, the short shaft recommended transom
>height is 16.6 inches and the long is 22.5 inches. Since most boats
>are either 15 inches and 20 inches in height for short and long shaft
>outboards respectively, how does the longer (higher?) shaft affect
>performance? Does the builder have to increase the transom height by
>some means in order to use a Honda? This would seem to be a drawback
>to purchasing a Honda.
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing
>- stay on topic
>- use punctuation
>- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
>- add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
>
>
Peter, do you recall why Mr. Lampman didn't like the Honda around salt
water? His comments were for the 5hp models-I wonder if his opinions would
be different for larger motors. Thanks for remembering that.
-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Vanderwaart [mailto:pvanderw@...]
Sent: Monday, August 28, 2000 12:03 PM
To:bolger@egroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Honda OB's
Look back at message 6168.
PHV
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing
- stay on topic
- use punctuation
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
- add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
water? His comments were for the 5hp models-I wonder if his opinions would
be different for larger motors. Thanks for remembering that.
-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Vanderwaart [mailto:pvanderw@...]
Sent: Monday, August 28, 2000 12:03 PM
To:bolger@egroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Honda OB's
Look back at message 6168.
PHV
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing
- stay on topic
- use punctuation
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
- add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
Bob, why'd you replace the Yamaha?
I understand the Loose Moose 2 was lost in a lightning storm (very sad).
Would you build another AS39? What would you change? The reason I ask is I
will retire in 11 years and want to build a boat to live aboard and do some
serious sailing. I saw (at Square Boats site) that the Loose Moose 2 made
an Atlantic crossing, and I believe you actually built it in France.
Anyway, if you would like to offer any advice I'd appreciate it.
I understand the Loose Moose 2 was lost in a lightning storm (very sad).
Would you build another AS39? What would you change? The reason I ask is I
will retire in 11 years and want to build a boat to live aboard and do some
serious sailing. I saw (at Square Boats site) that the Loose Moose 2 made
an Atlantic crossing, and I believe you actually built it in France.
Anyway, if you would like to offer any advice I'd appreciate it.
Less than a hundred sheets and you have yourself a boat...
Bob
Bob
The Yamaha was replaced with the Honda because I was working with the local
Honda dealer and they made me a great deal ( so good in fact that I bought
two!) The Yamaha had pushed us over 2300 miles in a year long tour of the
european canal system ( not to mention our circumnavigation of the Med and
our West African trip)and while still performing well we thought it was time
for a new motor...by the way we sold the Yamaha to a guy on a Multihull and
it is still going strong.
I would be happy to discuss LM2 with potential builders off list so drop us
a line if you have any questions.
Bob & Sheila
St Thomas USVI
Honda dealer and they made me a great deal ( so good in fact that I bought
two!) The Yamaha had pushed us over 2300 miles in a year long tour of the
european canal system ( not to mention our circumnavigation of the Med and
our West African trip)and while still performing well we thought it was time
for a new motor...by the way we sold the Yamaha to a guy on a Multihull and
it is still going strong.
I would be happy to discuss LM2 with potential builders off list so drop us
a line if you have any questions.
Bob & Sheila
St Thomas USVI
----- Original Message -----
From: Frank Bales <fbales@...>
To: <bolger@egroups.com>
Sent: Monday, August 28, 2000 1:48 PM
Subject: RE: [bolger] Honda OB's
> Bob, why'd you replace the Yamaha?
>
> I understand the Loose Moose 2 was lost in a lightning storm (very sad).
> Would you build another AS39? What would you change? The reason I ask is
I
> will retire in 11 years and want to build a boat to live aboard and do
some
> serious sailing. I saw (at Square Boats site) that the Loose Moose 2 made
> an Atlantic crossing, and I believe you actually built it in France.
> Anyway, if you would like to offer any advice I'd appreciate it.
>
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing
> - stay on topic
> - use punctuation
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
>
>
Look back at message 6168.
PHV
PHV
Sheila and I had a Yamaha 4 stroke 9.9 that we later replace with a Honda 4
stroke 9.9 on Loose Moose 2 both engines were excellent and did the
job...but the operative word here is 4 stroke and a big prop!
Bob & Sheila
St Thomas USVI
stroke 9.9 on Loose Moose 2 both engines were excellent and did the
job...but the operative word here is 4 stroke and a big prop!
Bob & Sheila
St Thomas USVI
I've known several (ok, maybe 3 or 4) people that have owned Honda outboards
and they love them. In fact, they are nearly fanatical about them. They
one and all claim Honda to be the best.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce [mailto:bgbeck55@...]
Sent: Monday, August 28, 2000 10:10 AM
To:bolger@egroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Honda OB's
Does anyone have experience with Honda outboards? In reading
through their specifications, the short shaft recommended transom
height is 16.6 inches and the long is 22.5 inches. Since most boats
are either 15 inches and 20 inches in height for short and long shaft
outboards respectively, how does the longer (higher?) shaft affect
performance? Does the builder have to increase the transom height by
some means in order to use a Honda? This would seem to be a drawback
to purchasing a Honda.
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing
- stay on topic
- use punctuation
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
- add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
and they love them. In fact, they are nearly fanatical about them. They
one and all claim Honda to be the best.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce [mailto:bgbeck55@...]
Sent: Monday, August 28, 2000 10:10 AM
To:bolger@egroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Honda OB's
Does anyone have experience with Honda outboards? In reading
through their specifications, the short shaft recommended transom
height is 16.6 inches and the long is 22.5 inches. Since most boats
are either 15 inches and 20 inches in height for short and long shaft
outboards respectively, how does the longer (higher?) shaft affect
performance? Does the builder have to increase the transom height by
some means in order to use a Honda? This would seem to be a drawback
to purchasing a Honda.
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing
- stay on topic
- use punctuation
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
- add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
Does anyone have experience with Honda outboards? In reading
through their specifications, the short shaft recommended transom
height is 16.6 inches and the long is 22.5 inches. Since most boats
are either 15 inches and 20 inches in height for short and long shaft
outboards respectively, how does the longer (higher?) shaft affect
performance? Does the builder have to increase the transom height by
some means in order to use a Honda? This would seem to be a drawback
to purchasing a Honda.
through their specifications, the short shaft recommended transom
height is 16.6 inches and the long is 22.5 inches. Since most boats
are either 15 inches and 20 inches in height for short and long shaft
outboards respectively, how does the longer (higher?) shaft affect
performance? Does the builder have to increase the transom height by
some means in order to use a Honda? This would seem to be a drawback
to purchasing a Honda.