RE: [bolger] Re: Wanted: Black Skimmer, Martha Jane, Dovekie or similar

The flat bottomed, radius chine approach was something that PCB first noticed on an O’Day 22 and subsequently used on his Dovekie. It is also a feature on Thames Barges which PCB admired and which influenced a number of his designs…

 

JohnT

 

From:bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto: bolger@yahoogroups.com ]
Sent:Saturday, May 17, 2014 12:34 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: Wanted: Black Skimmer, Martha Jane, Dovekie or similar

 

 

"Get away without rocker if chines are radiused". This statement could be true, partially true, or not true at all however, it is interesting that many large ships have characteristics of being vertically plumb sides - no rocker - flat bottom - long length - and rounded chines.

"Get away without rocker if chines are radiused". This statement could be true, partially true, or not true at all however, it is interesting that many large ships have characteristics of being vertically plumb sides - no rocker - flat bottom - long length - and rounded chines.
Regarding rocker and lack of rocker on the designs mentioned, Phil explains it in the excellent Furled Sails interview.You can get away without rocker if the chines are radiused. This complicates construction for the amateur but can achieve extreme shoal draft, he also employed this feature in Ida Little and Michael Walsh"s Dugong.

Cheers
Chris
In smaller boats it's best not to try to cook in the cabin at all. It
works best to sit or stand in the cockpit where there's room to work and
you don't steam up the cabin.

On Tue, 22 Apr 2014 10:42:16 -0700, sirdarnell wrote:

> Cooking can be done sitting, but can be safer standing, in case, boat
> rolls and grease is headed towards you.

--
John (jkohnen@...)
Too often I would hear men boast of the miles covered that day, rarely of
what they had seen. (Louis L'Amour)
Cooking can be done sitting, but can be safer standing, in case, boat rolls and grease is headed towards you.
IIRC, the way Francis Herreshoff put it was something like, "everything
worth doing inside the cabin of a boat can be done sitting or lying down."
I disagree with him on only one thing -- pulling up your pants. <g>

On Fri, 18 Apr 2014 08:35:29 -0700, Wayne G wrote:

> ...
> As none other than L. Francis Herreshoff stated in one of his
> elegantly-written books:"standing
> headroom is highly over-rated" in cruising sailboats (since most inside
> tasks are better performed
> sitting anyway)

--
John (jkohnen@...)
School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the whole span of human
existence . They are full of dull, unintelligible tasks, new and
unpleasant ordinances, brutal violations of common sense and common
decency. (H. L. Mencken)
Fast rowing boats when considered for use in flat calm waters have no rocker, transoms tend towards the pointy, and chines or hard turns are below the water to minimize turbulence with air contact.

At triloboat website Dave has a recent article explaining the virtues of flat bottoms.  I think rocker serves "mostly" two purposes: 1. weight distribution- keeping it towards the center and 2. it improves handling characteristics.

If you look at hull shapes of the fastest cats they have long straight runs with hardly any rocker only adding rocker because they are out in open water and have to deal with waves impacts.  This is the great balancing act in fast oceangoing sailboats.

A pointy end will have minimal drag underwater when you have wide powerful sterns you have to add rocker to come up above the waterline to avoid excessive drag.

At lower displacement speeds rockerless hulls are much easier to push through the water. 
On Thursday, April 17, 2014 12:17 PM, mason smith <masonsmith@...> wrote:
 
Who is it who’s looking for a Skimmer, MJ, or Dovekie? Is a Micro out of the question? Draws 18 inches without either centerboard of leeboards, pretty darn shoal-draft for most waters. I’ve had a Dovekie and loved it but would generally prefer the Micro, much more horse.
This question of rocker on flat bottomed boats has interested me. Dovekie’s flat fore and aft, as is Elver, as is Sea Pearl, after Herreshoff—ain’t that so? They all go pretty well but I think it may be true that they’d be a little faster with some rocker. Important to note that we are talking about sailboats, quite different in underwater form when heeled. You can add more weight to a rockerless FB boat for a given increase in its draft, and there isn’t much harm in immersing the ends of a displacement boat, if sharp. But again these are sailboats, meant to sail heeled, and heeling them increases their waterlines. And changes their hydraulics. Phil was concerned with flow across the chines, turbulence, so part of the deal with boats like Skimmer is having their curves alike, sides and bottom, forward. I’ve always supposed that the Dovekie was a very deliberate choice in favor of minimum draft, at a sacrifice in ideal hydrodynamics. I am willing to be corrected. Dovekie sails pretty darn well for such low power especially with a breeze behind her. And again, Micro’s pretty shoal. Not enough for the Gulf of Florida, I guess. I had my Dovekie a Cedar Key and hung that up several times, sailing across obvious thin places; wouldn’t have gotten around at all well in the Micro.---Mason
 
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Ofartstutz@...
Sent:Thursday, April 17, 2014 11:16 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: Wanted: Black Skimmer, Martha Jane, Dovekie or similar
 
 
Sorry i have no photos. I know that shallow draft requires a flat bottom but not the substantial rocker that the Black Skinner has. Compare it to other flat bottom sharpies. For example the series designed by Bruce Kirby. The rocker is less and it doesn't rise clear out of the water at the stem. In the everglades you can generally manage this by anchoring very close to the lee side of the mangroves. Still i would rather have a boat that is less vulnerable in this regard.

Art


in response to Chris Crandall's discouragement that Black Skimmer had no place to comfortably sit:

 

In my several years of owning a Black Skimmer, both trailer-cruising and from-marina-cruising the Chesapeake, I found a most comfortable "reading seat" inside the cabin was created by placing a Type IV square "throwing-cushion" on the floorboard just a bit aft of the berth, then another similar cushion propped against the sloping side of the boat -- back-angle was perfect; no framing in the way; views out the slit-windows on opposite side; headroom was more than adequate.  My wife set herself up same way, on opposite side.  OK, ok; our legs don't drop-off a ledge, but extend flat outward from the hips (or a bit of bent-knee...) -- but sure seemed cozy and comfortable to US.

 

As none other than L. Francis Herreshoff stated in one of his elegantly-written books:"standing headroom is highly over-rated" in cruising sailboats (since most inside tasks are better performed sitting anyway)

 

Regards,

Wayne Gilham

 

From:bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf OfCrandall, Chris S.
Sent:Wednesday, April 16, 2014 7:07 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject:[bolger] Re: Wanted: Black Skimmer, Martha Jane, Dovekie or similar

 

 

We enjoyed Key Largo Shoal Draft Charters in the early 90's. It was a great way to enjoy Florida Bay, and the boats were very capable. We spent a couple of days on a Black Skimmer (the owner believed it was #1, designed for and built by Mike O'Brien. Sailing anywhere upwind was extremely fine, as the boat simply corkscrewed gently forward without need for rudder (as the main generated lee helm, it brought the "mizzen" or "spanker" would rotate into the wind, generating weather helm, and so on. It sounds bad, but it was gentle, easy, and pleasant.

The downside of the Black Skimmer is the completely flat cabin. There was no place to sit, only to lie out. I prefer to read with bended knees (and to be able to shift position easily). If it were up to me, I'd build in a few inches of height to the bunks.

I don't think that the boats took a terrible beating. They were wooden boats out for charter in a sunny and salty environment, The ground that they took (often) was usually pretty sandy, or grassy. A very, very pleasant way to sail. We had steady north winds, with gusts to 25 mph. We took in a pretty big reef, as we were not very experienced sailors at the time. Plenty of fun.

--------------------------------------------

On Tue, 3/11/14, earling22 . <dave.irland@...> wrote:

> Subject: [bolger] Re: Wanted: Black Skimmer, Martha Jane, Dovekie or similar
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, March 11, 2014, 9:55 AM
> I remember coming across the website years ago, and getting really stoked to go down
> there and rent a Black Skimmer (having had one, and wanting to try one is true skinny water). Boy was I sad
> when it turned out to be long defunct.

> Also, Black Skimmers are indeed wonderful sailing boats.

Messages in this topic (29)

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Mason,

 

I have owned a Dovekie and a Sea Pearl. The Sea Pearl is supposedly based on Hereshoff’s Carpenter, Carpenter  does have some rocker and I think that a Sea Pearl would be a better boat with similar rocker (and a better rudder and a deeper aft cockpit), but it is always easy to think about ways to “improve” a boat.

 

I make a distinction between a fiat bottomed boat with straight sides and a hard chine and a round/v bottomed boat with the keel cut off and replaced with a flat bottom. Elver, Sea Pearl, and many of Jim  Michalaks designs fall in this category. The distinction I very clear when comparing a Banks Dory with a Swampscott or Gunning Dory.

 

JohnT

 

From:bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto: bolger@yahoogroups.com ]On Behalf Ofmason smith
Sent:Thursday, April 17, 2014 12:17 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject:RE: [bolger] Re: Wanted: Black Skimmer, Martha Jane, Dovekie or similar

 

 

Who is it who’s looking for a Skimmer, MJ, or Dovekie? Is a Micro out of the question? Draws 18 inches without either centerboard of leeboards, pretty darn shoal-draft for most waters. I’ve had a Dovekie and loved it but would generally prefer the Micro, much more horse.

This question of rocker on flat bottomed boats has interested me. Dovekie’s flat fore and aft, as is Elver, as is Sea Pearl, after Herreshoff—ain’t that so? They all go pretty well but I think it may be true that they’d be a little faster with some rocker. Important to note that we are talking about sailboats, quite different in underwater form when heeled. You can add more weight to a rockerless FB boat for a given increase in its draft, and there isn’t much harm in immersing the ends of a displacement boat, if sharp. But again these are sailboats, meant to sail heeled, and heeling them increases their waterlines. And changes their hydraulics. Phil was concerned with flow across the chines, turbulence, so part of the deal with boats like Skimmer is having their curves alike, sides and bottom, forward. I’ve always supposed that the Dovekie was a very deliberate choice in favor of minimum draft, at a sacrifice in ideal hydrodynamics. I am willing to be corrected. Dovekie sails pretty darn well for such low power especially with a breeze behind her. And again, Micro’s pretty shoal. Not enough for the Gulf of Florida , I guess. I had my Dovekie a Cedar Key and hung that up several times, sailing across obvious thin places; wouldn’t have gotten around at all well in the Micro.---Mason

 

From:bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto: bolger@yahoogroups.com ]On Behalf Ofartstutz@...
Sent:Thursday, April 17, 2014 11:16 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: Wanted: Black Skimmer, Martha Jane, Dovekie or similar

 

 

Sorry i have no photos. I know that shallow draft requires a flat bottom but not the substantial rocker that the Black Skinner has. Compare it to other flat bottom sharpies. For example the series designed by Bruce Kirby. The rocker is less and it doesn't rise clear out of the water at the stem. In the everglades you can generally manage this by anchoring very close to the lee side of the mangroves. Still i would rather have a boat that is less vulnerable in this regard.

Art

From the Bolger interview on the furled sails podcast, Phil stated that he discovered that you could solve the cross-flow issue by having a radiused chine (more difficult to make, but allows for minimal rocker).

Great interview too. I've listened to it multiple times


Suhitha

From the Bolger interview on the furled sails podcast, Phil stated that he discovered that you could solve the cross-flow issue by having a radiused chine (more difficult to make, but allows for minimal rocker).
Great interview too. I've listened to it multiple times

Suhitha

On 2014-04-17, at 12:16 PM, mason smith wrote:

 

Who is it who’s looking for a Skimmer, MJ, or Dovekie? Is a Micro out of the question? Draws 18 inches without either centerboard of leeboards, pretty darn shoal-draft for most waters. I’ve had a Dovekie and loved it but would generally prefer the Micro, much more horse.

This question of rocker on flat bottomed boats has interested me. Dovekie’s flat fore and aft, as is Elver, as is Sea Pearl, after Herreshoff—ain’t that so? They all go pretty well but I think it may be true that they’d be a little faster with some rocker. Important to note that we are talking about sailboats, quite different in underwater form when heeled. You can add more weight to a rockerless FB boat for a given increase in its draft, and there isn’t much harm in immersing the ends of a displacement boat, if sharp. But again these are sailboats, meant to sail heeled, and heeling them increases their waterlines. And changes their hydraulics. Phil was concerned with flow across the chines, turbulence, so part of the deal with boats like Skimmer is having their curves alike, sides and bottom, forward. I’ve always supposed that the Dovekie was a very deliberate choice in favor of minimum draft, at a sacrifice in ideal hydrodynamics. I am willing to be corrected. Dovekie sails pretty darn well for such low power especially with a breeze behind her. And again, Micro’s pretty shoal. Not enough for the Gulf of Florida, I guess. I had my Dovekie a Cedar Key and hung that up several times, sailing across obvious thin places; wouldn’t have gotten around at all well in the Micro.---Mason

 

From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Ofartstutz@...
Sent:Thursday, April 17, 2014 11:16 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: Wanted: Black Skimmer, Martha Jane, Dovekie or similar

 

 

Sorry i have no photos. I know that shallow draft requires a flat bottom but not the substantial rocker that the Black Skinner has. Compare it to other flat bottom sharpies. For example the series designed by Bruce Kirby. The rocker is less and it doesn't rise clear out of the water at the stem. In the everglades you can generally manage this by anchoring very close to the lee side of the mangroves. Still i would rather have a boat that is less vulnerable in this regard.

Art



Who is it who’s looking for a Skimmer, MJ, or Dovekie? Is a Micro out of the question? Draws 18 inches without either centerboard of leeboards, pretty darn shoal-draft for most waters. I’ve had a Dovekie and loved it but would generally prefer the Micro, much more horse.

This question of rocker on flat bottomed boats has interested me. Dovekie’s flat fore and aft, as is Elver, as is Sea Pearl, after Herreshoff—ain’t that so? They all go pretty well but I think it may be true that they’d be a little faster with some rocker. Important to note that we are talking about sailboats, quite different in underwater form when heeled. You can add more weight to a rockerless FB boat for a given increase in its draft, and there isn’t much harm in immersing the ends of a displacement boat, if sharp. But again these are sailboats, meant to sail heeled, and heeling them increases their waterlines. And changes their hydraulics. Phil was concerned with flow across the chines, turbulence, so part of the deal with boats like Skimmer is having their curves alike, sides and bottom, forward. I’ve always supposed that the Dovekie was a very deliberate choice in favor of minimum draft, at a sacrifice in ideal hydrodynamics. I am willing to be corrected. Dovekie sails pretty darn well for such low power especially with a breeze behind her. And again, Micro’s pretty shoal. Not enough for the Gulf of Florida, I guess. I had my Dovekie a Cedar Key and hung that up several times, sailing across obvious thin places; wouldn’t have gotten around at all well in the Micro.---Mason

 

From:bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Ofartstutz@...
Sent:Thursday, April 17, 2014 11:16 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: Wanted: Black Skimmer, Martha Jane, Dovekie or similar

 

 

Sorry i have no photos. I know that shallow draft requires a flat bottom but not the substantial rocker that the Black Skinner has. Compare it to other flat bottom sharpies. For example the series designed by Bruce Kirby. The rocker is less and it doesn't rise clear out of the water at the stem. In the everglades you can generally manage this by anchoring very close to the lee side of the mangroves. Still i would rather have a boat that is less vulnerable in this regard.

Art

Think about it. To float a boat, the shape of the boat must displace a volume of water equal to the weight of the boat and crew/cargo. If you’re going to sail or row, you need a fairly narrow hull. If you’re going to get a flat bottomed boat to move easily, you at least need to keep the transom out of the water and many designers maintain you need to keep the stem out of the water. Therefore, displacement can only be achieved with rocker and the heavier the boat, the greater the necessary rocker. If you want an example of extreme rocker, take a look at Bolger’s Lily which floats four large batteries and four adults in a 15 foot hull. The boat almost looks potbellied (so do I for that matter), but appears to achieve hull speed with an electric trolling motor!

 

JohnT

 

From:bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto: bolger@yahoogroups.com ]On Behalf Ofartstutz@...
Sent:Thursday, April 17, 2014 11:16 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: Wanted: Black Skimmer, Martha Jane, Dovekie or similar

 

 

Sorry i have no photos. I know that shallow draft requires a flat bottom but not the substantial rocker that the Black Skinner has. Compare it to other flat bottom sharpies. For example the series designed by Bruce Kirby. The rocker is less and it doesn't rise clear out of the water at the stem. In the everglades you can generally manage this by anchoring very close to the lee side of the mangroves. Still i would rather have a boat that is less vulnerable in this regard.

Art

Sorry i have no photos. I know that shallow draft requires a flat bottom but not the substantial rocker that the Black Skinner has. Compare it to other flat bottom sharpies. For example the series designed by Bruce Kirby. The rocker is less and it doesn't rise clear out of the water at the stem. In the everglades you can generally manage this by anchoring very close to the lee side of the mangroves. Still i would rather have a boat that is less vulnerable in this regard.

Art
Real easy way to fix that. I used to sling a cushion under the bow overhang at anchor. Snug it up to the bottom right at the waterline. Takes five seconds. Free. You could even carry a large docking fender just for that purpose.

The cabin as drawn (like the rig) is ultra spartan but can be built out a al the skimmer built by nexus marine
>i found that the one extreme weakness of the design is the wide flat bottom with substantial rocker.
>  Arthur Stutz

No doubt.   Shoal draft displacement sail boats must have bottoms like this!

Contrast this with common sailboats, deep draft conventional keel sloops.

Their "extreme weakness" is that they can't sail in shoal draft water.  And most of the Keys is shoal draft water.

We enjoyed Key Largo Shoal Draft Charters in the early 90's. It was a great way to enjoy Florida Bay, and the boats were very capable. We spent a couple of days on a Black Skimmer (the owner believed it was #1, designed for and built by Mike O'Brien. Sailing anywhere upwind was extremely fine, as the boat simply corkscrewed gently forward without need for rudder (as the main generated lee helm, it brought the "mizzen" or "spanker" would rotate into the wind, generating weather helm, and so on. It sounds bad, but it was gentle, easy, and pleasant.

The downside of the Black Skimmer is the completely flat cabin. There was no place to sit, only to lie out. I prefer to read with bended knees (and to be able to shift position easily). If it were up to me, I'd build in a few inches of height to the bunks.

I don't think that the boats took a terrible beating. They were wooden boats out for charter in a sunny and salty environment, The ground that they took (often) was usually pretty sandy, or grassy. A very, very pleasant way to sail. We had steady north winds, with gusts to 25 mph. We took in a pretty big reef, as we were not very experienced sailors at the time. Plenty of fun.


--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 3/11/14, earling22 . <dave.irland@...> wrote:

> Subject: [bolger] Re: Wanted: Black Skimmer, Martha Jane, Dovekie or similar
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, March 11, 2014, 9:55 AM
> I remember coming across the website years ago, and getting really stoked to go down
> there and rent a Black Skimmer (having had one, and wanting to try one is true skinny water). Boy was I sad
> when it turned out to be long defunct.

> Also, Black Skimmers are indeed wonderful sailing boats.





























Messages in this topic (29)



Bolger rules!!!
- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo Groups Links



------------------------------------------------------------------------
RE: What went wrong and good idea. Renting any boat is not a good idea and what went wrong is everything. I had a boat rental for years in Fl. Never once did any renter admit to doing something wrong or stupid. Even when I pulled them off a sandbar or had them hook up the fuel line wrong after filling up the gas , was it their fault. Been there done that - you don't want to ! Capt. Rocky, (really happily out of the boat rental business and retired in Fl.) 
PS  I once had 2 Sunfish run over by a drunk driver while sitting on the beach about 200 feet from the nears road !
From:"Arthur Stutz" <artstutz@...>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent:Tuesday, April 15, 2014 5:40:27 PM
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: Wanted: Black Skimmer, Martha Jane, Dovekie or similar

 

If you are talking about Key Largo shoal draft charters (i think that was the name) . I actually did it . Has a fabulous time. i would go back for a for another round for sure. I'd love to know what went wrong.

i found that the one extreme weakness of the design is the wide flat bottom with substantial rocker. At anchor the slightest chop will bound your brains out. in the everglades this can be managed by anchoring extremely close to the lee side of mangroves. There are other similar designs that look like they would be better in this regard.

It looked to me like the boats required a fair amount of repairs in the everglades as they ran aground constantly. They included a long push pole similar to a vaulting pole and a powerful outboard to deal with the groundings. the boards and rudder constantly dragged through the mud. Also he operated without insurance. I'm sure the price fo insurance if you could get it would have killed any profit.

I'd love to know what brought the enterprise to an end. It was a wonderful idea.

Art
--------------------------------------------

On Tue, 3/11/14, earling22 . <dave.irland@...> wrote:

Subject: [bolger] Re: Wanted: Black Skimmer, Martha Jane, Dovekie or similar
To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, March 11, 2014, 9:55 AM
















 









I remember coming across the
website years ago, and getting really stoked to go down
there and rent a Black Skimmer (having had one, and wanting
to try one is true skinny water). Boy was I sad when it
turned out to be long defunct.


Also, Black Skimmers are indeed wonderful sailing
boats.
























Hi Arthur,

you wouldn't happen to have some photos of those boats from back when would you?

If you are talking about Key Largo shoal draft charters (i think that was the name) . I actually did it . Has a fabulous time. i would go back for a for another round for sure. I'd love to know what went wrong.

i found that the one extreme weakness of the design is the wide flat bottom with substantial rocker. At anchor the slightest chop will bound your brains out. in the everglades this can be managed by anchoring extremely close to the lee side of mangroves. There are other similar designs that look like they would be better in this regard.

It looked to me like the boats required a fair amount of repairs in the everglades as they ran aground constantly. They included a long push pole similar to a vaulting pole and a powerful outboard to deal with the groundings. the boards and rudder constantly dragged through the mud. Also he operated without insurance. I'm sure the price fo insurance if you could get it would have killed any profit.

I'd love to know what brought the enterprise to an end. It was a wonderful idea.

Art
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 3/11/14, earling22 . <dave.irland@...> wrote:

Subject: [bolger] Re: Wanted: Black Skimmer, Martha Jane, Dovekie or similar
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, March 11, 2014, 9:55 AM


























I remember coming across the
website years ago, and getting really stoked to go down
there and rent a Black Skimmer (having had one, and wanting
to try one is true skinny water). Boy was I sad when it
turned out to be long defunct.


Also, Black Skimmers are indeed wonderful sailing
boats.
----------
Sent from my Nokia phone

------Original message------
From: <philbolger@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 9:36:09 AM GMT-0400
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Wanted: Black Skimmer, (mast-raising)

I just send John the article.

Susanne Altenburger, PB&F

From: mason smith
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 9:18 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [bolger] Re: Wanted: Black Skimmer, (mast-raising)



Phil drew plans for a tabernacle for the Micro Class in 2004 and shows them on the Micro II and Micro Navigator plans. ---Mason


From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Ofjrmcdan@...
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 12:10 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [bolger] Re: Wanted: Black Skimmer, (mast-raising)




Wayne,

I'm toying with adding a tabernacle to our Bolger Micro BANTY (completed 1991) and would be interested to see what Phil suggested for your Black Skimmer.

Thanks,

John McDaniel
Columbus, IN
I just send John the article.

Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
 
Sent:Wednesday, March 12, 2014 9:18 AM
Subject:RE: [bolger] Re: Wanted: Black Skimmer, (mast-raising)
 
 

Phil drew plans for a tabernacle for the Micro Class in 2004 and shows them on the Micro II and Micro Navigator plans. ---Mason

From:bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Ofjrmcdan@...
Sent:Wednesday, March 12, 2014 12:10 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject:RE: [bolger] Re: Wanted: Black Skimmer, (mast-raising)

 

Wayne,

I'm toying with adding a tabernacle to our Bolger Micro BANTY (completed 1991) and would be interested to see what Phil suggested for your Black Skimmer. 

Thanks,

John McDaniel
Columbus, IN

I used to step mine by myself by tying the skimmer up to the Reading Room dock pilings at low-ish tide (off season; the blue bloods would never have let me defile their dock otherwise), then running up on the Reading Room deck and lowering it into the step from my position about 8 feet above the deck. I hoisted it up off the boat with a rope. Worked pretty well. Though I believe the mast was about 80 lbs if I remember right, and not exactly a little sliver of wood. My father bought the boat off of me and cut the top 17' of mast off and made it a gaffer. Didn't do much for it's performance, but that mast cut-off is now the mast for my Swampscott--perfect fit. The circle of messing-about/life

Phil drew plans for a tabernacle for the Micro Class in 2004 and shows them on the Micro II and Micro Navigator plans. ---Mason

 

From:bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Ofjrmcdan@...
Sent:Wednesday, March 12, 2014 12:10 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject:RE: [bolger] Re: Wanted: Black Skimmer, (mast-raising)

 

 

Wayne,

I'm toying with adding a tabernacle to our Bolger Micro BANTY (completed 1991) and would be interested to see what Phil suggested for your Black Skimmer. 

Thanks,

John McDaniel
Columbus, IN 

Wayne,

I'm toying with adding a tabernacle to our Bolger Micro BANTY (completed 1991) and would be interested to see what Phil suggested for your Black Skimmer. 

Thanks,

John McDaniel
Columbus, IN 

Phil Bolger sketched out for me, a way to "tabernacle" the standard (long) BlackSkimmer mast.... did that, and used a gin-pole of sorts (dropping into trailer-winch-mounting-tube) that made raising the mast not a terribly big project -- we could arrive at launch-ramp and raise mainmast, drop-in mizzen, put on the sprits, tie-on the leeboards (firmly bolted to trailer for safe transport) and be launched within half-an-hour if really hustling...

 

If anyone wants/needs details on this setup, I still have some photos and Phil's sketch -- contact me off-list (I'll be able to respond mid April or so...

 

Wayne Gilham

Tacoma WA

 

From:bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Ofrjtrane@...
Sent:Monday, March 10, 2014 7:49 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: Wanted: Black Skimmer, Martha Jane, Dovekie or similar

 

 

I built a Black Skimmer, too, and confirm, the mast is a bear to step, even with a crane!

 

I also built the Summer Hen designed by Phil Bolger, about the same size (28') with similarly-sized mast - we engineered a tabernacle using a worm-drive winch to raise and lower - this worked like a charm - my 12 year old could safely raise and lower the mast.

 

The Black Skimmer is a delightful boat - We really enjoyed her in the Florida Keys and Bahamas. I sold her to a friend who used her to start a shapie rental fleet in the Keys.

I remember coming across the website years ago, and getting really stoked to go down there and rent a Black Skimmer (having had one, and wanting to try one is true skinny water). Boy was I sad when it turned out to be long defunct.

Also, Black Skimmers are indeed wonderful sailing boats.
They have been gone for years, I wanted to try them also.

HJ

I think I've read of this fleet but as I understand, the business is caput now yes?
> If not I'd love contact info, I might charter myself a black skimmer in that case
When I left home last fall she was kept on the tidal flats near the ferry
terminal. Mark Zieger used to anchor his Martha Jane "Silkie" there. She has had
minimal maintenance over the last 2-3 years.

HJ

> Juneau ak
sigh.
long gone.
I think I've read of this fleet but as I understand, the business is caput now yes? If not I'd love contact info, I might charter myself a black skimmer in that case
Juneau ak
I built a Black Skimmer, too, and confirm, the mast is a bear to step, even with a crane!

I also built the Summer Hen designed by Phil Bolger, about the same size (28') with similarly-sized mast - we engineered a tabernacle using a worm-drive winch to raise and lower - this worked like a charm - my 12 year old could safely raise and lower the mast.

The Black Skimmer is a delightful boat - We really enjoyed her in the Florida Keys and Bahamas. I sold her to a friend who used her to start a shapie rental fleet in the Keys.
Black Skimmers don't weigh that much--I figured mine was about 2200 lbs. But they're large--7 foot beam, plus the two leeboard guards. And about 27 feet long with the bowsprit. Plus a very long mast.
Yes, I bought the one in RI. The sail is virtually new, ditto all the canvas. Trailer is junk. I bought it because it was a good deal, and the condition of the sail and canvas. Most Dovekies have the original sail, high mileage and blown out. Current owner inherited it, said it was almost never used.

Pretty filthy, etc, but shouldn't be too big of a job.

I'll post before and afters . . .
If you do not mind sharing, that boat is located where? Does the boat have a info link or contact info? Thanks for any reply..........
That would be great if you have the time. I would have to convince the wife though. Also I emailed the owner but haven't heard back yet...
Dave, did you buy the dovekie from RI? I almost snapped it up but became preoccupied with my exams! One man's loss... Do keep me posted though, I'm not in a rush to buy, until the right thing comes along.
In terms of a black skimmer. My tow vehicle is currently a suburban, so I'm not too concerned about weight. I think my max tow capacity is 8,000 lbs.
I am building a light schooner which I plan on trailering. Just make the masts desteppable at the launch site.

Scot McPherson, PMP CISSP MCSA
Shoreline, CT
Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 8, 2014, at 8:43 AM, "earling22 ." <dave.irland@...> wrote:

 

Trust me (I built one), a Black Skimmer is a big boat, not strictly trailerable. 36' mast. Unless you get one with the Solent Rig.

I just bought a Dovekie which fits your description (needs cleanup), if I end up not liking it (mid summer), I might want to sell it. But that's probably too late.
Dave

I saw that Skillygalee myself this AM. Too bad it's at the ends of the earth from here. I've always hankered after that boat, having had a Skimmer and having loved it. The Skillygalee looked that much more attractive to me. Cheap, too.
Trust me (I built one), a Black Skimmer is a big boat, not strictly trailerable. 36' mast. Unless you get one with the Solent Rig.

I just bought a Dovekie which fits your description (needs cleanup), if I end up not liking it (mid summer), I might want to sell it. But that's probably too late.
Dave

I am familiar with the Skillygalee in Juneau. I will be back home in late May and
could look at it closely for you. I would be able to support you with some tools
and a shop if you are really serious and have some skills.

HJ

Thanks Mason.
> I'm familiar with your site. You've got some nice boats. Just a little out of my
> price range though and I don't love the advanced sharpie style. There is a
> skillygalee for sale in AK. Too far away, but I'd love to learn more. Maybe we'll
> sail the inside passage instead...
Thanks Mason.
I'm familiar with your site. You've got some nice boats. Just a little out of my price range though and I don't love the advanced sharpie style. There is a skillygalee for sale in AK. Too far away, but I'd love to learn more. Maybe we'll sail the inside passage instead...
I contacted the seller. A little more than I want to pay, and I am preferential to the black skimmer but nice boat.

I have an excellent Bolger Micro with great sails, trailer, motor, but with its custom winter cover it’s $4400.See it at

 

Adirondack Goodboat

68 North Point Road

Long Lake, NY 12847

518 624 6398

www.adirondackgoodboat.com

goodboat@...

 

Good luck! Mason Smith

 

 

 

From:bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Ofgmkdart@...
Sent:Friday, March 07, 2014 11:15 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject:[bolger] Wanted: Black Skimmer, Martha Jane, Dovekie or similar

 

 

Hello,
I am currently in the market for a Bolger boat. Preferably one that is sailable but maybe needs some clean-up/work from disuse. I'm really interested in Black Skimmer, but maybe she is a bit big for my current needs.
Planning trips to Georgian Bay and Martha's Vineyard.
My budget is around 3k max (what can I say, I'm a broke student).
In addition to money, I have a CLC skerry, and possibly a kawasaki ninja 250 motorcycle (well maintained) for trade.
Thanks in advance.
g k r au t h a (at) u v m (dot)c o m
(no spaces between the letters.
Michael

Right now there is a Duogong for sale on EBay at a give away price.  It has been listed several times already, latest asking price of $4,200, with no takers.  You might be able to negotiate that price down.  (Heck, just that double axle trailer is worth some dough).



On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 8:14 AM,<gmkdart@...>wrote:
 

Hello,
I am currently in the market for a Bolger boat. Preferably one that is sailable but maybe needs some clean-up/work from disuse. I'm really interested in Black Skimmer, but maybe she is a bit big for my current needs.
Planning trips to Georgian Bay and Martha's Vineyard.
My budget is around 3k max (what can I say, I'm a broke student).
In addition to money, I have a CLC skerry, and possibly a kawasaki ninja 250 motorcycle (well maintained) for trade.
Thanks in advance.
g k r au t h a (at) u v m (dot)c o m
(no spaces between the letters.
Michael


Hello,
I am currently in the market for a Bolger boat. Preferably one that is sailable but maybe needs some clean-up/work from disuse. I'm really interested in Black Skimmer, but maybe she is a bit big for my current needs.
Planning trips to Georgian Bay and Martha's Vineyard.
My budget is around 3k max (what can I say, I'm a broke student).
In addition to money, I have a CLC skerry, and possibly a kawasaki ninja 250 motorcycle (well maintained) for trade.
Thanks in advance.
g k r au t h a (at) u v m (dot)c o m
(no spaces between the letters.
Michael