Re: [bolger] Moderator: Facebook

Hello All,

     well over a year later since the de facto FACEBOOK ‘ultimatum’/’division’/’schism’  
- as one reflects on the realities around PB&F’s ongoing work in Design, Fisheries-Politics out of America’s Oldest Fishing-Port – our Port ! – , along with progress in matters naval, 

- our unbroken 2-week/4-week publication record on our work across now well over 500 consecutive issues in just MAIB,
- including periodic illustrated reports on hands-on boat-construction using our design-work,
but also
- YAHOO Group traffic, i.e. YAHOO’scontinued existence,
- apparently-permanent FACEBOOK-inaccessibility for PB&F for instance, and for others,
a bunch of ‘head-scratchers’ remain as to why the various disconnects between seemingly-inseparable realities.

Here one of the more puzzling ones, a matter I’ve brought up before:  The numbers of YAHOO Group members should be reflected in MAIB subscriptions – but appears to not be.
How come ?

A year of MAIB is cheaper than a daily ‘special’ coffee for a week.

Nobody offers coffee ‘for free’. 
But some folks claim that they ‘would give anything to get the whole MAIB-canon’ - except that I suspect they’d want that for free, while happily paying for a daily cuppa at least 250-times a year...
Perhaps not surprisingly with this ‘personal view’, they take issue with PB&F and MAIB for not offering more ‘give-away’-goodies... or something irrational as that.  Loopy stuff that from those grown people.

So, what gives ?
Work here continues - and some of it most serious indeed - but you won’t know, unless you are willing to look for it, read about it, perhaps take advantage of it.


Susanne Altenburger, PB&F

From:mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com

Sent:Friday, June 03, 2016 8:47 PM

To:bolger@yahoogroups.com

Subject:Re: [bolger] Moderator: Facebook

 

 

My issues also. Facebook is a no go for me.

john

On 03/06/2016 9:45 AM, 'Christopher C. Wetherill'wetherillc@...[bolger] wrote:

My Sentiments also.

Chris W

On 06/02/2016 04:10 PM, Mpcosgmpcosg@...[bolger] wrote:

I don't/won't do Facebook, but ill enjoy it on yahoo while I can.

Thanks

On Jun 2, 2016, at 4:07 PM, "gregg.carlson@...[bolger]" <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Hi Group,

I am the moderator/owner of this Yahoo group - just another boatbuilder like you guys. For the really
old timers, this all started as a listserver run by Chris Noto. I think there were 50 or so of us Phil Bolger
fans and builders back then.

The Yahoo group isn't as active as it used to be - perhaps it's a little outmoded. Yahoo itself has had some
bad news lately, so I don't know what will happen to Yahoo groups.

I have set up a Facebook club that I would encourage everyone to join. This link should lead you there:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1629186337408650/

Hopefully, we can keep the core of the 4200 members somewhat together maybe more active also.

If you have any questions or comments, please contact me off list.

Hope to see you guys there!

Thanks,

Gregg Carlson

Tulsa, OK

Virus-free.www.avast.com

Facebook eats my limited data. YouTube commercials are also data pigs. I refuse to pay to watch a commercial.  Let THEM Pay me. I also refuse to use SELF check out.  I simply don't get paid to check myself out. People are not wise when they play into the wrong side of the market.  I know people who sign 24 month contracts with companies.  What that does for the company is locks prices in so they don't have to compete.  When companies compete we the buyer benefits.  Buyers do self harm by signing contracts.  If a YouTube video has a commercial I simply won't watch the video. If we buy phone service every 30 days and wait 1 day before we refill we hurt the company and that makes them realize phone service is over priced. The buyer has the power to change the market but if we get lazy big companies will use us up.

Blessings Chiefredelk

On Tue, 12 Jul 2016 13:00:31 -0700, Ron wrote:

> Please Susanne join Facebook and participate in the Bolger group there
> (or just read it for enjoyment).
> ...

--
John (jkohnen@...)
Nothing is really work unless you would rather be doing something else.
(Sir James Barrie)

 By the way, of the total 4314 members posted on the front page some 1135 are listed as bouncing emails...

Yahoo mail now is better than it was. I use it muchly. I've used it and Yahoo Groups for some 18 years continuously with the same account, except for this additional one begun about seven years ago... ahem...  Yahoo has never been exposed as grossly breaching my trust, privacy, or rights in any way approaching the way FB has.

Yes, I preferred the Yahoo Groups before this "upgrade" version. That said, this clunky(?) version has been stable for some years now and has kept pretty much all of the facilities of the original...

That said I offer as an exampleanother somewhat comparable boat community's web platformthat doesn't cost all that much annually to run. That annual amount is covered, or largely offset, by an annual fund raising drive for donations from members. It started as a response to clunky(?) poorly maintained discussion pages on the JWD site. JWD post there occasionally. It is said the smaller membership there atWharram Builders and Friends can more than cover the website expenses if each member donates as little as $5...  Money? Not a lot. Yes, the website there is in the hands of an owner, but so too this yahoo group.. Both seem to have worked well don't you think?

 

Ok guys enough of the FUD and Anti-FUD. It's ridiculous.

There are facts and let's talk about them if you wish, but let's keep terms like "the great Saran" and "big brother" and all that rut out it.

The question is what is a good platform to rely on for our continued discussions and sharing of and about PB&F and similar works. Susanne has a business to run, so no one is trying to instantly grant public domain rights to those works, but it would be nice to have an archive of our discussions for reference, and perhaps a way that's easier for Susanne to store, share and sell PB&F copyrighted materials if she chose to do that.

It's as simple as that. A discussion of platforms.

Thank you,
Scot

Scot McPherson, PMP CISSP MCSA
Shoreline, CT
Sent from my iPhone
>

>

 

Anything and everything that is posted or uploaded to Facebook becomes the property of Facebook. You sure you want that?

Scot McPherson, PMP CISSP MCSA

Shoreline, CT

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 4, 2016, at 9:40 AM, 'Connor, Patrick'pconnor@...[bolger] <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

All for a Bolger Facebook page. Three reasons:

1. Facebook is easy to use and intuitive. Making posts and uploading photos is easy and instantaneous. The Yahoo groups functionality is unreliable, archaic and candidly, a pain in the ass to use. I have never been able master the damn thing. It is certainly a factor in the decline of the forum. 

2. You can control privacy on FB. In any case every one of us had to compromise  our "privacy" -such as it exists in the digital world- when we were required to set up our Yahoo account to use this forum. If folks aren't interested in using Facebook, only join this group and don't "Friend". Set your privacy settings to max. 

3. Use of FB or other digital tools is not mutually exclusive to using bound books. I have a library in my home and read in both formats every day. We don't dirty ourselves by going digital.

A lot of this discussion seems to me to be centered around other issues totally unrelated to Phil's boats- rage against the machine, fear of the unknown, and maybe resentment of the fact that someone came up with an idea that lots of people liked and made a bunch of money from it. Good for him. And who cares anyway? It's a great tool and a great way to share information about lots of stuff, including great boats. There are discussion groups for other boats and boat types on Facebook.  I don't think the quality of the content or discussion was degraded one whit because it was on Facebook. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 4, 2016, at 8:31 AM,dave.irland@...[bolger] <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Funny thing, while the debate about privacy, paranoia, access, and giving stuff away for free (nobody's suggesting that, by the way) rages here on Yahoo for its audience of about five, the FB page has 123 new members and over 30 posts/comments, not counting the dozens of "thumbs up"s, and several pics, not least of which is a lovely picture of a Slicer

For "serious" discussion, you can hang onto Yahoo. Or some other "serious" venue. For fun, advancement of PB&F, and a lively, engaged and user friendly platform, FB is already off and running, and has more posts in the last few days than this Yahoo page has had in about four months.

Your choice. (And, as Scott pointed out, you control what you put on FB. As for "snooping" and "privacy" and Zuckerberg's supposedly nefarious world domination, I hope people realize that their information has been harvested a long, long time ago by entities ranging from that little Goodreads account to that epoxy you ordered on Amazon.)

All for a Bolger Facebook page. Three reasons:

1. Facebook is easy to use and intuitive. Making posts and uploading photos is easy and instantaneous. The Yahoo groups functionality is unreliable, archaic and candidly, a pain in the ass to use. I have never been able master the damn thing. It is certainly a factor in the decline of the forum. 

2. You can control privacy on FB. In any case every one of us had to compromise  our "privacy" -such as it exists in the digital world- when we were required to set up our Yahoo account to use this forum. If folks aren't interested in using Facebook, only join this group and don't "Friend". Set your privacy settings to max. 

3. Use of FB or other digital tools is not mutually exclusive to using bound books. I have a library in my home and read in both formats every day. We don't dirty ourselves by going digital.

A lot of this discussion seems to me to be centered around other issues totally unrelated to Phil's boats- rage against the machine, fear of the unknown, and maybe resentment of the fact that someone came up with an idea that lots of people liked and made a bunch of money from it. Good for him. And who cares anyway? It's a great tool and a great way to share information about lots of stuff, including great boats. There are discussion groups for other boats and boat types on Facebook.  I don't think the quality of the content or discussion was degraded one whit because it was on Facebook. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 4, 2016, at 8:31 AM,dave.irland@...[bolger] <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Funny thing, while the debate about privacy, paranoia, access, and giving stuff away for free (nobody's suggesting that, by the way) rages here on Yahoo for its audience of about five, the FB page has 123 new members and over 30 posts/comments, not counting the dozens of "thumbs up"s, and several pics, not least of which is a lovely picture of a Slicer

For "serious" discussion, you can hang onto Yahoo. Or some other "serious" venue. For fun, advancement of PB&F, and a lively, engaged and user friendly platform, FB is already off and running, and has more posts in the last few days than this Yahoo page has had in about four months.

Your choice. (And, as Scott pointed out, you control what you put on FB. As for "snooping" and "privacy" and Zuckerberg's supposedly nefarious world domination, I hope people realize that their information has been harvested a long, long time ago by entities ranging from that little Goodreads account to that epoxy you ordered on Amazon.)

 

Funny thing, while the debate about privacy, paranoia, access, and giving stuff away for free (nobody's suggesting that, by the way) rages here on Yahoo for its audience of about five, the FB page has 123 new members and over 30 posts/comments, not counting the dozens of "thumbs up"s, and several pics, not least of which is a lovely picture of a Slicer

For "serious" discussion, you can hang onto Yahoo. Or some other "serious" venue. For fun, advancement of PB&F, and a lively, engaged and user friendly platform, FB is already off and running, and has more posts in the last few days than this Yahoo page has had in about four months.

Your choice. (And, as Scott pointed out, you control what you put on FB. As for "snooping" and "privacy" and Zuckerberg's supposedly nefarious world domination, I hope people realize that their information has been harvested a long, long time ago by entities ranging from that little Goodreads account to that epoxy you ordered on Amazon.)

Boy do I know about this.

But....

Where to begin to explain the obvious ?

1. This is a business...
2. Its business is not IT, successive generations of code-management, or keeping ‘online-interconnected’ with...
3. Without a plausible economic base to generate designs, we’d discuss what ?
4. Folks interested in the work may have to actually read about it...

Etc.

If the expectation is that the entire Archive would ever be fully online ‘for the convenience’ versus in a sequence of books, articles etc. I would not hold my breath because of item #1, based on #3 etc.

Susanne Altenburger, PB&F

 

From:mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com

Sent:Friday, June 03, 2016 3:23 PM

To:bolger@yahoogroups.com

Subject:Re: [bolger] Moderator: Facebook

 

 

Susanne,

I agree with you. I like paper. I have several copies of the books I really want to keep for archiving and for availability to share now and again.

 

However as far as eCopies being ephemeral, there are ways around this, unless of course the whole world crashed. That possibility not withstanding, the open source world has created methods of information sharing, collaboration and duplication (meaning backups).

 

If a primary system were stood up to archive electronic versions of plans, books, articles, correspondence, and discussions, anyone who wished to become another archive could just join the project and all info would flow to the new member system, and updates and new additions would flow incrementally.

 

There are lots of platforms available to do this, and it's used for thousands of projects, mostly software, but it's just as valid for any sort of documentation for information distribution and archiving.

 

 

Scot McPherson, PMP CISSP MCSA

Shoreline, CT

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 3, 2016, at 3:09 PM,philbolger@...[bolger] <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Yeah, I’ve been advised on this for quite a long time now.

But, books, articles and PLANS (!) can not disappear under malware-impact, hostage-ware, or just personal technical incompetence while migrating from one OS to the next. etc.

And how could you read a MARCH 1932 issue of THE RUDDER in any e-format ? 
Someone has to have a physical copy,
- scan it at whatever expense,
- post it at whatever expense,
and
- then upgrade the file-format forever-more ??

Not sustainable. 
Not even for GOOGLE. 
And who knows where they’ll be in 10 years ? 

Under odd lingo of ‘convenience’ folks have giddily proposed electronic plans-formats... ??!!

‘Temporary’ libraries such as via ‘KINDLE’ etc are spooky ideas to spend any resources on.

For ‘Harlequin Novels’, sure. 

But what else ?

Even the local paper needs physical copies for any archival ambitions.
Short-term/E-term ‘memory’ seems a dicey model to manage basic knowledge, including designs for boats.

So, if e-format were the preferred modality, then we might go e-format all the way and strap on those boating-simulation goggles and let that CPU-chip do all the work for you...

Freebie-mentality remains equally unsustainable, since folks pay lots for ISP-services but then expect stuff for possibly free from then on ?
Meaning lots of Dollars to the uncreative ‘conduit’-folks, but little to none for the content-generators who actually do the work on which the system depends to begin with ?
Not sustainable.

Luddite mentality ?

No.  But selectively discriminating in the balance of cost vs. benefit.
As is my responsibility under principles of sustainability, here towards Phil’s and our Archive.
I can’t have file-format issues or ISP-proceedings seriously impact this work.

Those who won’t read stuff generated here at PB&F don’t matter.
It’s always been about self-selection.
And if you are interested, the most ‘durable‘ format’ should be the most agreeable since most lasting, most reliable, forever offering stimulus or just fond memories – irrespective of some OS.

Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
 
  

 

From:mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com

Sent:Friday, June 03, 2016 2:27 PM

To:bolger@yahoogroups.com

Subject:Re: [bolger] Moderator: Facebook

 

 

For better or worse, the world appears to have moved on from print.....

My blunt opinion: If you want to stir interest in new and existing designs, an online/internet presence of some sort is needed (beyond already obsolescent forums/email groups)

Best,

Joe

On Friday, June 3, 2016 12:57 PM, "philbolger@...[bolger]" <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

On the issue whether YAHOO’s format has slowed down the discussion, it seems that the forum-format may be less of an issue than individual interests.
And that can be a touchy issue.

I sure am not happy about the 7 years of time since Phil’s departure, still without his final manuscripts in print.
A lot of good, sad and bad reasons for that.

The 39-footer #681 SACPAS-3/”GADABOUT” got done, tested and proven.

And there is e.g. also the astonishing reality of our thinking first published in the top-level monthly of this Navy (http://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2013-07/landing-craft-21st-century, http://hallman.nfshost.com/bolger/LCU-F.pdf), and then its reflection in the head of the 4-Star Boss of the MARINES herehttp://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2014-06/bridging-our-surface-connector-gap  A lot of work behind this, helping on that (national defense) level of analysis, design and discussion with in-house-resources that therefore did not go towards the books or the catalogue( s). 

But back to today’s concerns.
In terms if the discussions on YAHOO (or wherever), immediate case in point is the 500th column on our work in MAIB in the June 2016 issue, incl. 75+ by me since Phil’s death.

Perhaps I am looking through the wrong YAHOO window, but in my YAHOO-generated input-triggered updates on the discussion’s progress, –topics, -digressions, there has been rather scant reflection of what we/later-I have put into MAIB and (chronologically-) subsequent YAHOO Group discussions – a rather puzzling phenomenon. 

 

I can see that e.g. the ‘Fisheries’ cluster of issues may be under-exciting to quite a few. 

But - assuming I get the right feed – the various sequences of e.g. modifications to a number of his and our buildable-scale powerboat and sailing-cruiser designs appear to have found little resonance here in this YAHOO Group. 

And pretty much the same for getting designs into BOAT DESIGN QUARTERLY, which has featured more Bolger designs than it has had issues.

Two explanations:

1.  “Not interesting enough, certainly without Phil...”

2.  MAIB costs a few bucks every month, with fewer issues of BDQ costing a pinch more... and that is the obstacle.

Well, in either case, there seems little to be done in this office here.
And if cost on such a modest level is the obstacle, then no budget will be there for a plausible stack of materials to get started on even a modest project.

So what gives ?

 

As I’ve said, ‘touchy issue’.

So, I am not sure that the ‘forum-format’ is the challenge.

 

“ Now if that does not rattle the cages...!!??”

 

Susanne Altenburger, PB&F

 

 

 

From:mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com

Sent:Friday, June 03, 2016 10:16 AM

To:bolger@yahoogroups.com

Subject:Re: [bolger] Moderator: Facebook

 

 

Thank you for tending to all this, Greg.
It takes editors and moderators to produce the environment for discussion.
In the context of the 500th piece in MAIB this month, would you have a total count on the exchanges here ?
If YAHOO won’t post the count. perhaps an every-100-submissions update would offer a track-record for all members.

Possibly under- or mis-educated about the relative intrusiveness by FB and L-I (e.g. aggressively tracking every member’s internet-move outside of FB and L-I ? ), PB&F does not do FACEBOOK nor LINKED-IN, long with quite a few other such ventures.
So, perhaps until the actual demise of YAHOO, we could stick with this set-up here.
’Eventually’ as the first of the new books finally hit print, and thus elements of the archive can be featured online, we might find other means to discuss matters, possibly directly linked to a PB&F online-presence to keep a running discussion between whatever is happening here now all the way back 60+ years on what Phil started then.

Susanne Altenburger, PB&F

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From:mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com

Sent:Friday, June 03, 2016 9:45 AM

To:bolger@yahoogroups.com

Subject:Re: [bolger] Moderator: Facebook

 

 

My Sentiments also.

Chris W

On 06/02/2016 04:10 PM, Mpcosgmpcosg@...[bolger] wrote:

I don't/won't do Facebook, but ill enjoy it on yahoo while I can.

Thanks

On Jun 2, 2016, at 4:07 PM, "gregg.carlson@...[bolger]" <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Hi Group,

I am the moderator/owner of this Yahoo group - just another boatbuilder like you guys. For the really
old timers, this all started as a listserver run by Chris Noto. I think there were 50 or so of us Phil Bolger
fans and builders back then.

The Yahoo group isn't as active as it used to be - perhaps it's a little outmoded. Yahoo itself has had some
bad news lately, so I don't know what will happen to Yahoo groups.

I have set up a Facebook club that I would encourage everyone to join. This link should lead you there:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1629186337408650/

Hopefully, we can keep the core of the 4200 members somewhat together maybe more active also.

If you have any questions or comments, please contact me off list.

Hope to see you guys there!

Thanks,

Gregg Carlson

Tulsa, OK

My issues also. Facebook is a no go for me.

john

My Sentiments also.

Chris W

On 06/02/2016 04:10 PM, Mpcosgmpcosg@...[bolger] wrote:

I don't/won't do Facebook, but ill enjoy it on yahoo while I can.

Thanks

On Jun 2, 2016, at 4:07 PM, "gregg.carlson@...[bolger]" <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Hi Group,

I am the moderator/owner of this Yahoo group - just another boatbuilder like you guys. For the really
old timers, this all started as a listserver run by Chris Noto. I think there were 50 or so of us Phil Bolger
fans and builders back then.

The Yahoo group isn't as active as it used to be - perhaps it's a little outmoded. Yahoo itself has had some
bad news lately, so I don't know what will happen to Yahoo groups.

I have set up a Facebook club that I would encourage everyone to join. This link should lead you there:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1629186337408650/

Hopefully, we can keep the core of the 4200 members somewhat together maybe more active also.

If you have any questions or comments, please contact me off list.

Hope to see you guys there!

Thanks,

Gregg Carlson

Tulsa, OK

Virus-free.www.avast.com

Yeah, I’ve been advised on this for quite a long time now.

But, books, articles and PLANS (!) can not disappear under malware-impact, hostage-ware, or just personal technical incompetence while migrating from one OS to the next. etc.

And how could you read a MARCH 1932 issue of THE RUDDER in any e-format ? 
Someone has to have a physical copy,
- scan it at whatever expense,
- post it at whatever expense,
and
- then upgrade the file-format forever-more ??

Not sustainable. 
Not even for GOOGLE. 
And who knows where they’ll be in 10 years ? 

Under odd lingo of ‘convenience’ folks have giddily proposed electronic plans-formats... ??!!

‘Temporary’ libraries such as via ‘KINDLE’ etc are spooky ideas to spend any resources on.

For ‘Harlequin Novels’, sure. 

But what else ?

Even the local paper needs physical copies for any archival ambitions.
Short-term/E-term ‘memory’ seems a dicey model to manage basic knowledge, including designs for boats.

So, if e-format were the preferred modality, then we might go e-format all the way and strap on those boating-simulation goggles and let that CPU-chip do all the work for you...

Freebie-mentality remains equally unsustainable, since folks pay lots for ISP-services but then expect stuff for possibly free from then on ?
Meaning lots of Dollars to the uncreative ‘conduit’-folks, but little to none for the content-generators who actually do the work on which the system depends to begin with ?
Not sustainable.

Luddite mentality ?

No.  But selectively discriminating in the balance of cost vs. benefit.
As is my responsibility under principles of sustainability, here towards Phil’s and our Archive.
I can’t have file-format issues or ISP-proceedings seriously impact this work.

Those who won’t read stuff generated here at PB&F don’t matter.
It’s always been about self-selection.
And if you are interested, the most ‘durable‘ format’ should be the most agreeable since most lasting, most reliable, forever offering stimulus or just fond memories – irrespective of some OS.

Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
 
  

 

From:mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com

Sent:Friday, June 03, 2016 2:27 PM

To:bolger@yahoogroups.com

Subject:Re: [bolger] Moderator: Facebook

 

 

For better or worse, the world appears to have moved on from print.....

My blunt opinion: If you want to stir interest in new and existing designs, an online/internet presence of some sort is needed (beyond already obsolescent forums/email groups)

Best,

Joe

On Friday, June 3, 2016 12:57 PM, "philbolger@...[bolger]" <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

On the issue whether YAHOO’s format has slowed down the discussion, it seems that the forum-format may be less of an issue than individual interests.
And that can be a touchy issue.

I sure am not happy about the 7 years of time since Phil’s departure, still without his final manuscripts in print.
A lot of good, sad and bad reasons for that.

The 39-footer #681 SACPAS-3/”GADABOUT” got done, tested and proven.

And there is e.g. also the astonishing reality of our thinking first published in the top-level monthly of this Navy (http://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2013-07/landing-craft-21st-century, http://hallman.nfshost.com/bolger/LCU-F.pdf), and then its reflection in the head of the 4-Star Boss of the MARINES herehttp://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2014-06/bridging-our-surface-connector-gap  A lot of work behind this, helping on that (national defense) level of analysis, design and discussion with in-house-resources that therefore did not go towards the books or the catalogue( s). 

But back to today’s concerns.
In terms if the discussions on YAHOO (or wherever), immediate case in point is the 500th column on our work in MAIB in the June 2016 issue, incl. 75+ by me since Phil’s death.

Perhaps I am looking through the wrong YAHOO window, but in my YAHOO-generated input-triggered updates on the discussion’s progress, –topics, -digressions, there has been rather scant reflection of what we/later-I have put into MAIB and (chronologically-) subsequent YAHOO Group discussions – a rather puzzling phenomenon. 

 

I can see that e.g. the ‘Fisheries’ cluster of issues may be under-exciting to quite a few. 

But - assuming I get the right feed – the various sequences of e.g. modifications to a number of his and our buildable-scale powerboat and sailing-cruiser designs appear to have found little resonance here in this YAHOO Group. 

And pretty much the same for getting designs into BOAT DESIGN QUARTERLY, which has featured more Bolger designs than it has had issues.

Two explanations:

1.  “Not interesting enough, certainly without Phil...”

2.  MAIB costs a few bucks every month, with fewer issues of BDQ costing a pinch more... and that is the obstacle.

Well, in either case, there seems little to be done in this office here.
And if cost on such a modest level is the obstacle, then no budget will be there for a plausible stack of materials to get started on even a modest project.

So what gives ?

 

As I’ve said, ‘touchy issue’.

So, I am not sure that the ‘forum-format’ is the challenge.

 

“ Now if that does not rattle the cages...!!??”

 

Susanne Altenburger, PB&F

 

 

 

From:mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com

Sent:Friday, June 03, 2016 10:16 AM

To:bolger@yahoogroups.com

Subject:Re: [bolger] Moderator: Facebook

 

 

Thank you for tending to all this, Greg.
It takes editors and moderators to produce the environment for discussion.
In the context of the 500th piece in MAIB this month, would you have a total count on the exchanges here ?
If YAHOO won’t post the count. perhaps an every-100-submissions update would offer a track-record for all members.

Possibly under- or mis-educated about the relative intrusiveness by FB and L-I (e.g. aggressively tracking every member’s internet-move outside of FB and L-I ? ), PB&F does not do FACEBOOK nor LINKED-IN, long with quite a few other such ventures.
So, perhaps until the actual demise of YAHOO, we could stick with this set-up here.
’Eventually’ as the first of the new books finally hit print, and thus elements of the archive can be featured online, we might find other means to discuss matters, possibly directly linked to a PB&F online-presence to keep a running discussion between whatever is happening here now all the way back 60+ years on what Phil started then.

Susanne Altenburger, PB&F

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From:mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com

Sent:Friday, June 03, 2016 9:45 AM

To:bolger@yahoogroups.com

Subject:Re: [bolger] Moderator: Facebook

 

 

My Sentiments also.

Chris W

On 06/02/2016 04:10 PM, Mpcosgmpcosg@...[bolger] wrote:

I don't/won't do Facebook, but ill enjoy it on yahoo while I can.

Thanks

On Jun 2, 2016, at 4:07 PM, "gregg.carlson@...[bolger]" <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Hi Group,

I am the moderator/owner of this Yahoo group - just another boatbuilder like you guys. For the really
old timers, this all started as a listserver run by Chris Noto. I think there were 50 or so of us Phil Bolger
fans and builders back then.

The Yahoo group isn't as active as it used to be - perhaps it's a little outmoded. Yahoo itself has had some
bad news lately, so I don't know what will happen to Yahoo groups.

I have set up a Facebook club that I would encourage everyone to join. This link should lead you there:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1629186337408650/

Hopefully, we can keep the core of the 4200 members somewhat together maybe more active also.

If you have any questions or comments, please contact me off list.

Hope to see you guys there!

Thanks,

Gregg Carlson

Tulsa, OK

For better or worse, the world appears to have moved on from print.....

My blunt opinion: If you want to stir interest in new and existing designs, an online/internet presence of some sort is needed (beyond already obsolescent forums/email groups)

Best,

Joe

On Friday, June 3, 2016 12:57 PM, "philbolger@...[bolger]" <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

On the issue whether YAHOO’s format has slowed down the discussion, it seems that the forum-format may be less of an issue than individual interests.
And that can be a touchy issue.

I sure am not happy about the 7 years of time since Phil’s departure, still without his final manuscripts in print.
A lot of good, sad and bad reasons for that.

The 39-footer #681 SACPAS-3/”GADABOUT” got done, tested and proven.

And there is e.g. also the astonishing reality of our thinking first published in the top-level monthly of this Navy (http://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2013-07/landing-craft-21st-century, http://hallman.nfshost.com/bolger/LCU-F.pdf), and then its reflection in the head of the 4-Star Boss of the MARINES herehttp://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2014-06/bridging-our-surface-connector-gap  A lot of work behind this, helping on that (national defense) level of analysis, design and discussion with in-house-resources that therefore did not go towards the books or the catalogue( s). 

But back to today’s concerns.
In terms if the discussions on YAHOO (or wherever), immediate case in point is the 500th column on our work in MAIB in the June 2016 issue, incl. 75+ by me since Phil’s death.

Perhaps I am looking through the wrong YAHOO window, but in my YAHOO-generated input-triggered updates on the discussion’s progress, –topics, -digressions, there has been rather scant reflection of what we/later-I have put into MAIB and (chronologically-) subsequent YAHOO Group discussions – a rather puzzling phenomenon. 

 

I can see that e.g. the ‘Fisheries’ cluster of issues may be under-exciting to quite a few. 

But - assuming I get the right feed – the various sequences of e.g. modifications to a number of his and our buildable-scale powerboat and sailing-cruiser designs appear to have found little resonance here in this YAHOO Group. 

And pretty much the same for getting designs into BOAT DESIGN QUARTERLY, which has featured more Bolger designs than it has had issues.

Two explanations:

1.  “Not interesting enough, certainly without Phil...”

2.  MAIB costs a few bucks every month, with fewer issues of BDQ costing a pinch more... and that is the obstacle.

Well, in either case, there seems little to be done in this office here.
And if cost on such a modest level is the obstacle, then no budget will be there for a plausible stack of materials to get started on even a modest project.

So what gives ?

 

As I’ve said, ‘touchy issue’.

So, I am not sure that the ‘forum-format’ is the challenge.

 

“ Now if that does not rattle the cages...!!??”

 

Susanne Altenburger, PB&F

 

 

 

From:mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com

Sent:Friday, June 03, 2016 10:16 AM

To:bolger@yahoogroups.com

Subject:Re: [bolger] Moderator: Facebook

 

 

Thank you for tending to all this, Greg.
It takes editors and moderators to produce the environment for discussion.
In the context of the 500th piece in MAIB this month, would you have a total count on the exchanges here ?
If YAHOO won’t post the count. perhaps an every-100-submissions update would offer a track-record for all members.

Possibly under- or mis-educated about the relative intrusiveness by FB and L-I (e.g. aggressively tracking every member’s internet-move outside of FB and L-I ? ), PB&F does not do FACEBOOK nor LINKED-IN, long with quite a few other such ventures.
So, perhaps until the actual demise of YAHOO, we could stick with this set-up here.
’Eventually’ as the first of the new books finally hit print, and thus elements of the archive can be featured online, we might find other means to discuss matters, possibly directly linked to a PB&F online-presence to keep a running discussion between whatever is happening here now all the way back 60+ years on what Phil started then.

Susanne Altenburger, PB&F

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From:mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com

Sent:Friday, June 03, 2016 9:45 AM

To:bolger@yahoogroups.com

Subject:Re: [bolger] Moderator: Facebook

 

 

My Sentiments also.

Chris W

On 06/02/2016 04:10 PM, Mpcosgmpcosg@...[bolger] wrote:

I don't/won't do Facebook, but ill enjoy it on yahoo while I can.

Thanks

On Jun 2, 2016, at 4:07 PM, "gregg.carlson@...[bolger]" <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Hi Group,

I am the moderator/owner of this Yahoo group - just another boatbuilder like you guys. For the really
old timers, this all started as a listserver run by Chris Noto. I think there were 50 or so of us Phil Bolger
fans and builders back then.

The Yahoo group isn't as active as it used to be - perhaps it's a little outmoded. Yahoo itself has had some
bad news lately, so I don't know what will happen to Yahoo groups.

I have set up a Facebook club that I would encourage everyone to join. This link should lead you there:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1629186337408650/

Hopefully, we can keep the core of the 4200 members somewhat together maybe more active also.

If you have any questions or comments, please contact me off list.

Hope to see you guys there!

Thanks,

Gregg Carlson

Tulsa, OK

 

Here, Here. Not withstanding Susannes comments, I have also had massive problems with the Yahoo group. I have NEVER been able to access all area's. While I'm complaining, I've sent several emails over the years to Susanne for plans, and she has never responded, so I gave up ever building a Bolger boat.

---

From:"Ben Townerben.towner@...[bolger]" <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent:Saturday, 4 June 2016, 1:20
Subject:Re: [bolger] Moderator: Facebook

 

You'll never get anyone younger to join in on the boat building fun with a Forum or Yahoo Groups. Take it from a "young'un". I've looked at, liked, and commented more in the last day than I have in the years being part of this group. The list serve had its time, but requires too many hoops to jump through for pictures, search, etc. For those of you who think the separated groups for finding plans/images is organized hasn't seen a modern web gallery!

I think a Facebook/Forum approach is the right way to go but someone has to host, moderate, and pay for the web. FB is a good start. Bring people in with FB and then direct to the Forum for archival info. 

Ben Towner

On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 10:53 AM, Scotscot.mcpherson@...[bolger]<bolger@yahoogroups.com>wrote:

 

Has anyone thought of putting up a bulletin board or similar presence? I have a website that could in theory be used for this, I know Gregg does too. One of us could spin off an instance of the website to support a forums site. I am just thinking that Facebook isn't really setup for in depth discussion, it's really more for a keeping in touch with your friends type of a platform.

Scot McPherson, PMP CISSP MCSA

Shoreline, CT

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 3, 2016, at 10:16 AM,philbolger@...[bolger] <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Thank you for tending to all this, Greg.
It takes editors and moderators to produce the environment for discussion.
In the context of the 500th piece in MAIB this month, would you have a total count on the exchanges here ?
If YAHOO won’t post the count. perhaps an every-100-submissions update would offer a track-record for all members.

Possibly under- or mis-educated about the relative intrusiveness by FB and L-I (e.g. aggressively tracking every member’s internet-move outside of FB and L-I ? ), PB&F does not do FACEBOOK nor LINKED-IN, long with quite a few other such ventures.
So, perhaps until the actual demise of YAHOO, we could stick with this set-up here.
’Eventually’ as the first of the new books finally hit print, and thus elements of the archive can be featured online, we might find other means to discuss matters, possibly directly linked to a PB&F online-presence to keep a running discussion between whatever is happening here now all the way back 60+ years on what Phil started then.

Susanne Altenburger, PB&F

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From:mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com

Sent:Friday, June 03, 2016 9:45 AM

To:bolger@yahoogroups.com

Subject:Re: [bolger] Moderator: Facebook

 

 

My Sentiments also.

Chris W

On 06/02/2016 04:10 PM, Mpcosgmpcosg@...[bolger] wrote:

I don't/won't do Facebook, but ill enjoy it on yahoo while I can.

Thanks

On Jun 2, 2016, at 4:07 PM, "gregg.carlson@...[bolger]" <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Hi Group,

I am the moderator/owner of this Yahoo group - just another boatbuilder like you guys. For the really
old timers, this all started as a listserver run by Chris Noto. I think there were 50 or so of us Phil Bolger
fans and builders back then.

The Yahoo group isn't as active as it used to be - perhaps it's a little outmoded. Yahoo itself has had some
bad news lately, so I don't know what will happen to Yahoo groups.

I have set up a Facebook club that I would encourage everyone to join. This link should lead you there:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1629186337408650/

Hopefully, we can keep the core of the 4200 members somewhat together maybe more active also.

If you have any questions or comments, please contact me off list.

Hope to see you guys there!

Thanks,

Gregg Carlson

Tulsa, OK

Hi Group,

I am the moderator/owner of this Yahoo group - just another boatbuilder like you guys. For the really
old timers, this all started as a listserver run by Chris Noto. I think there were 50 or so of us Phil Bolger
fans and builders back then.

The Yahoo group isn't as active as it used to be - perhaps it's a little outmoded. Yahoo itself has had some
bad news lately, so I don't know what will happen to Yahoo groups.

I have set up a Facebook club that I would encourage everyone to join. This link should lead you there:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1629186337408650/

Hopefully, we can keep the core of the 4200 members somewhat together maybe more active also.

If you have any questions or comments, please contact me off list.

Hope to see you guys there!

Thanks,

Gregg Carlson

Tulsa, OK

On Friday, June 3, 2016,philbolger@...[bolger] <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Thank you for tending to all this, Greg.
It takes editors and moderators to produce the environment for discussion.
In the context of the 500th piece in MAIB this month, would you have a total count on the exchanges here ?
If YAHOO won’t post the count. perhaps an every-100-submissions update would offer a track-record for all members.

Possibly under- or mis-educated about the relative intrusiveness by FB and L-I (e.g. aggressively tracking every member’s internet-move outside of FB and L-I ? ), PB&F does not do FACEBOOK nor LINKED-IN, long with quite a few other such ventures.
So, perhaps until the actual demise of YAHOO, we could stick with this set-up here.
’Eventually’ as the first of the new books finally hit print, and thus elements of the archive can be featured online, we might find other means to discuss matters, possibly directly linked to a PB&F online-presence to keep a running discussion between whatever is happening here now all the way back 60+ years on what Phil started then.

Susanne Altenburger, PB&F

From:mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com

Sent:Friday, June 03, 2016 9:45 AM

To:bolger@yahoogroups.com

Subject:Re: [bolger] Moderator: Facebook

My Sentiments also.

Chris W

On 06/02/2016 04:10 PM, Mpcosgmpcosg@...[bolger] wrote:

I don't/won't do Facebook, but ill enjoy it on yahoo while I can.

Thanks

On Jun 2, 2016, at 4:07 PM, "gregg.carlson@...[bolger]" <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Hi Group,

I am the moderator/owner of this Yahoo group - just another boatbuilder like you guys. For the really
old timers, this all started as a listserver run by Chris Noto. I think there were 50 or so of us Phil Bolger
fans and builders back then.

The Yahoo group isn't as active as it used to be - perhaps it's a little outmoded. Yahoo itself has had some
bad news lately, so I don't know what will happen to Yahoo groups.

I have set up a Facebook club that I would encourage everyone to join. This link should lead you there:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1629186337408650/

Hopefully, we can keep the core of the 4200 members somewhat together maybe more active also.

If you have any questions or comments, please contact me off list.

Hope to see you guys there!

Thanks,

Gregg Carlson

Tulsa, OK

Thank you for tending to all this, Greg.
It takes editors and moderators to produce the environment for discussion.
In the context of the 500th piece in MAIB this month, would you have a total count on the exchanges here ?
If YAHOO won’t post the count. perhaps an every-100-submissions update would offer a track-record for all members.

Possibly under- or mis-educated about the relative intrusiveness by FB and L-I (e.g. aggressively tracking every member’s internet-move outside of FB and L-I ? ), PB&F does not do FACEBOOK nor LINKED-IN, long with quite a few other such ventures.
So, perhaps until the actual demise of YAHOO, we could stick with this set-up here.
’Eventually’ as the first of the new books finally hit print, and thus elements of the archive can be featured online, we might find other means to discuss matters, possibly directly linked to a PB&F online-presence to keep a running discussion between whatever is happening here now all the way back 60+ years on what Phil started then.

Susanne Altenburger, PB&F

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From:mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com

Sent:Friday, June 03, 2016 9:45 AM

To:bolger@yahoogroups.com

Subject:Re: [bolger] Moderator: Facebook

 

 

My Sentiments also.

Chris W

On 06/02/2016 04:10 PM, Mpcosgmpcosg@...[bolger] wrote:

I don't/won't do Facebook, but ill enjoy it on yahoo while I can.

Thanks

On Jun 2, 2016, at 4:07 PM, "gregg.carlson@...[bolger]" <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Hi Group,

I am the moderator/owner of this Yahoo group - just another boatbuilder like you guys. For the really
old timers, this all started as a listserver run by Chris Noto. I think there were 50 or so of us Phil Bolger
fans and builders back then.

The Yahoo group isn't as active as it used to be - perhaps it's a little outmoded. Yahoo itself has had some
bad news lately, so I don't know what will happen to Yahoo groups.

I have set up a Facebook club that I would encourage everyone to join. This link should lead you there:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1629186337408650/

Hopefully, we can keep the core of the 4200 members somewhat together maybe more active also.

If you have any questions or comments, please contact me off list.

Hope to see you guys there!

Thanks,

Gregg Carlson

Tulsa, OK

I don't/won't do Facebook, but ill enjoy it on yahoo while I can.

Thanks

On Jun 2, 2016, at 4:07 PM, "gregg.carlson@...[bolger]" <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Hi Group,

I am the moderator/owner of this Yahoo group - just another boatbuilder like you guys. For the really
old timers, this all started as a listserver run by Chris Noto. I think there were 50 or so of us Phil Bolger
fans and builders back then.

The Yahoo group isn't as active as it used to be - perhaps it's a little outmoded. Yahoo itself has had some
bad news lately, so I don't know what will happen to Yahoo groups.

I have set up a Facebook club that I would encourage everyone to join. This link should lead you there:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1629186337408650/

Hopefully, we can keep the core of the 4200 members somewhat together maybe more active also.

If you have any questions or comments, please contact me off list.

Hope to see you guys there!

Thanks,

Gregg Carlson

Tulsa, OK

On Fri, 6/3/16,gregg.carlson@...[bolger] <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: [bolger] Moderator: Facebook
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, June 3, 2016, 3:07 AM












Hi Group,

I am the
moderator/owner of this Yahoo group - just another
boatbuilder like you guys. For the really
old timers, this all started as a listserver
run by Chris Noto. I think there were 50 or so of us Phil
Bolger
fans and builders back then.

The Yahoo group isn't as
active as it used to be - perhaps it's a little
outmoded. Yahoo itself has had some
bad news
lately, so I don't know what will happen to Yahoo
groups.

I have set up a
Facebook club that I would encourage everyone to join. This
link should lead you there:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1629186337408650/

Hopefully, we can
keep the core of the 4200 members somewhat together maybe
more active also.
If you have any
questions or comments, please contact me off list.

Hope to see you guys
there!
Thanks,Gregg
CarlsonTulsa, OK











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Excellent. Thanks.

On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 4:07 PM,gregg.carlson@...[bolger]<bolger@yahoogroups.com>wrote:

 

Hi Group,

I am the moderator/owner of this Yahoo group - just another boatbuilder like you guys. For the really
old timers, this all started as a listserver run by Chris Noto. I think there were 50 or so of us Phil Bolger
fans and builders back then.

The Yahoo group isn't as active as it used to be - perhaps it's a little outmoded. Yahoo itself has had some
bad news lately, so I don't know what will happen to Yahoo groups.

I have set up a Facebook club that I would encourage everyone to join. This link should lead you there:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1629186337408650/

Hopefully, we can keep the core of the 4200 members somewhat together maybe more active also.

If you have any questions or comments, please contact me off list.

Hope to see you guys there!

Thanks,

Gregg Carlson

Tulsa, OK