Re: [bolger] Lily & New Technology
Wind powered battery chargers added to the charge system. During the dark hours wind may be workable.
On Aug 24, 2016 12:18 PM, "pvanderwaart@...[bolger]" <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:I got my 9/16 issue of MAIB today in which Susanne provides some contemporary comment along with a reprint of the long, 1997 article on Lily, the 15' electric skiff. She notes there have been some new developments in the 20 years, and welcomed comments. So here are some comments.
First, there is the Torqeedo line of products. These are far better, and far more expensive, than the electric trolling motors available in 1997. They have, for example, computerized info screens giving a computer available range estimate, etc. The web site is pretty short on the technical details, but it looks to me like the Travel 1003 model with the onboard lithium battery provides about half the range of Lily as designed. The smaller Travel 503 would be good for 1 to 1/5 hours at top speed. I believe you can increase the range with external batteries, but I didn't get a good handle on that. So, if the question is "Can you fix this problem by throwing money at it?", the answer may well be yes.
There may be competitors to Torqeedo, as well.
Second, there are new battery types out there. The most obvious step up is the AGM battery. This is a sealed lead/acid battery with a different internal structure. They are more expensive than the old style, and maybe safer, but the reports I've read from people who installed them in sailboats is that they are not as reliable. Just anecdotes, but.....
Third, solar charging technology has come down in cost and gone up in performance. I think it would be interesting to do an analysis of how easy it would be to add solar charging as a option, how much it would cost to have an all-solar charging station at home or at the dock, and whether it would be possible to get enough panel area on Lily to make a solar-powered limp-home technology an option.
Peter
A good practical example is when I had to move my 34' Seidelmann sailboat (12-foot beam) about a quarter mile to a mooring. Engine wouldn't start, so I attached my trolling motor to the stern ladder and limped to the mooring, not fast, but we got there. Wouldn't work in a breeze.
Modern 12 volt trolling motors consume about 1 amp for _each pound_ of
thrust. The popular Minn Kota Endura 30 consumes 30 amps at full
"throttle". 24 volt motors consume about 1/2 amp per pound. Some trolling
motors are rated at more pounds thrust than the number of amps consumed
would indicate, but in my experience the 12 volt motors, anyway, so rated
don't live up to their rating. There's no free lunch. .
Pounds of thrust is a nebulous quantity to use for rating a motor. Thrust
at what speed? Static thrust, measured with a scale tied to the dock? That
tells us little about how a motor will propel a boat once it gets going,
but is useful for showing how well a trolling motor will get a heavy bass
boat moving slowly, so is probably how trolling motors are rated.
Horsepower is more useful, it's a rating using force and distance. For
getting an idea of how well a trolling motor will work as a propulsion
motor, not a bass boat fishing motor, the best we can do is figure out how
much power it _consumes_ and then make a guess at the losses in the motor
(not all that much at full "throttle") and propeller. 746 watts is the
same one horsepower. 12 volts x 30 amps = 360 watts = .48 horsepower. And
so on.
On Wed, 24 Aug 2016 16:27:45 -0700, 'wordzenpix wrote:
> Modern trolling motors draw roughly one amp for each 10 pounds of thrust.
> My two 100-watt Grape Solar panels routinely deliver about 10 amps in
> bright midday sun, enough for decent limping.
--
John (jkohnen@...)
Dissent is what rescues democracy from a quiet death behind closed doors.
(Lewis H. Lapham)
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thrust. The popular Minn Kota Endura 30 consumes 30 amps at full
"throttle". 24 volt motors consume about 1/2 amp per pound. Some trolling
motors are rated at more pounds thrust than the number of amps consumed
would indicate, but in my experience the 12 volt motors, anyway, so rated
don't live up to their rating. There's no free lunch. .
Pounds of thrust is a nebulous quantity to use for rating a motor. Thrust
at what speed? Static thrust, measured with a scale tied to the dock? That
tells us little about how a motor will propel a boat once it gets going,
but is useful for showing how well a trolling motor will get a heavy bass
boat moving slowly, so is probably how trolling motors are rated.
Horsepower is more useful, it's a rating using force and distance. For
getting an idea of how well a trolling motor will work as a propulsion
motor, not a bass boat fishing motor, the best we can do is figure out how
much power it _consumes_ and then make a guess at the losses in the motor
(not all that much at full "throttle") and propeller. 746 watts is the
same one horsepower. 12 volts x 30 amps = 360 watts = .48 horsepower. And
so on.
On Wed, 24 Aug 2016 16:27:45 -0700, 'wordzenpix wrote:
> Modern trolling motors draw roughly one amp for each 10 pounds of thrust.
> My two 100-watt Grape Solar panels routinely deliver about 10 amps in
> bright midday sun, enough for decent limping.
--
John (jkohnen@...)
Dissent is what rescues democracy from a quiet death behind closed doors.
(Lewis H. Lapham)
Modern trolling motors draw roughly one amp for each 10 pounds of thrust. My two 100-watt Grape Solar panels routinely deliver about 10 amps in bright midday sun, enough for decent limping.
On Aug 24, 2016 3:05 PM, "Scot Mc Phersonscot.mcpherson@...[bolger]" <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:My quick reaction to number 3 is that solar is suitable for keeping electric storage charged, but the amount of collection area needed (let alone all facing the right direction) to "run" a motor, even if only limping home, could not be supported by the lily. Better to use the solar to keep the backup battery topped off.
Scot
--Scot McPherson, PMP CISSP MCSA
Shoreline, CT, USA
Scot McPherson | Linkedin <https://www.linkedin.com/in/ scotmcpherson>I got my 9/16 issue of MAIB today in which Susanne provides some contemporary comment along with a reprint of the long, 1997 article on Lily, the 15' electric skiff. She notes there have been some new developments in the 20 years, and welcomed comments. So here are some comments.
First, there is the Torqeedo line of products. These are far better, and far more expensive, than the electric trolling motors available in 1997. They have, for example, computerized info screens giving a computer available range estimate, etc. The web site is pretty short on the technical details, but it looks to me like the Travel 1003 model with the onboard lithium battery provides about half the range of Lily as designed. The smaller Travel 503 would be good for 1 to 1/5 hours at top speed. I believe you can increase the range with external batteries, but I didn't get a good handle on that. So, if the question is "Can you fix this problem by throwing money at it?", the answer may well be yes.
There may be competitors to Torqeedo, as well.
Second, there are new battery types out there. The most obvious step up is the AGM battery. This is a sealed lead/acid battery with a different internal structure. They are more expensive than the old style, and maybe safer, but the reports I've read from people who installed them in sailboats is that they are not as reliable. Just anecdotes, but.....
Third, solar charging technology has come down in cost and gone up in performance. I think it would be interesting to do an analysis of how easy it would be to add solar charging as a option, how much it would cost to have an all-solar charging station at home or at the dock, and whether it would be possible to get enough panel area on Lily to make a solar-powered limp-home technology an option.
Peter
On Wednesday, August 24, 2016,pvanderwaart@...[bolger] <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:I got my 9/16 issue of MAIB today in which Susanne provides some contemporary comment along with a reprint of the long, 1997 article on Lily, the 15' electric skiff. She notes there have been some new developments in the 20 years, and welcomed comments. So here are some comments.
First, there is the Torqeedo line of products. These are far better, and far more expensive, than the electric trolling motors available in 1997. They have, for example, computerized info screens giving a computer available range estimate, etc. The web site is pretty short on the technical details, but it looks to me like the Travel 1003 model with the onboard lithium battery provides about half the range of Lily as designed. The smaller Travel 503 would be good for 1 to 1/5 hours at top speed. I believe you can increase the range with external batteries, but I didn't get a good handle on that. So, if the question is "Can you fix this problem by throwing money at it?", the answer may well be yes.
There may be competitors to Torqeedo, as well.
Second, there are new battery types out there. The most obvious step up is the AGM battery. This is a sealed lead/acid battery with a different internal structure. They are more expensive than the old style, and maybe safer, but the reports I've read from people who installed them in sailboats is that they are not as reliable. Just anecdotes, but.....
Third, solar charging technology has come down in cost and gone up in performance. I think it would be interesting to do an analysis of how easy it would be to add solar charging as a option, how much it would cost to have an all-solar charging station at home or at the dock, and whether it would be possible to get enough panel area on Lily to make a solar-powered limp-home technology an option.
Peter
--
Shoreline, CT, USA
Scot McPherson | Linkedin <https://www.linkedin.com/in/scotmcpherson>
On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 10:18 AM,pvanderwaart@...[bolger]<bolger@yahoogroups.com>wrote:I got my 9/16 issue of MAIB today in which Susanne provides some contemporary comment along with a reprint of the long, 1997 article on Lily, the 15' electric skiff. She notes there have been some new developments in the 20 years, and welcomed comments. So here are some comments.
First, there is the Torqeedo line of products. These are far better, and far more expensive, than the electric trolling motors available in 1997. They have, for example, computerized info screens giving a computer available range estimate, etc. The web site is pretty short on the technical details, but it looks to me like the Travel 1003 model with the onboard lithium battery provides about half the range of Lily as designed. The smaller Travel 503 would be good for 1 to 1/5 hours at top speed. I believe you can increase the range with external batteries, but I didn't get a good handle on that. So, if the question is "Can you fix this problem by throwing money at it?", the answer may well be yes.
There may be competitors to Torqeedo, as well.
Second, there are new battery types out there. The most obvious step up is the AGM battery. This is a sealed lead/acid battery with a different internal structure. They are more expensive than the old style, and maybe safer, but the reports I've read from people who installed them in sailboats is that they are not as reliable. Just anecdotes, but.....
Third, solar charging technology has come down in cost and gone up in performance. I think it would be interesting to do an analysis of how easy it would be to add solar charging as a option, how much it would cost to have an all-solar charging station at home or at the dock, and whether it would be possible to get enough panel area on Lily to make a solar-powered limp-home technology an option.
Peter
I got my 9/16 issue of MAIB today in which Susanne provides some contemporary comment along with a reprint of the long, 1997 article on Lily, the 15' electric skiff. She notes there have been some new developments in the 20 years, and welcomed comments. So here are some comments.
First, there is the Torqeedo line of products. These are far better, and far more expensive, than the electric trolling motors available in 1997. They have, for example, computerized info screens giving a computer available range estimate, etc. The web site is pretty short on the technical details, but it looks to me like the Travel 1003 model with the onboard lithium battery provides about half the range of Lily as designed. The smaller Travel 503 would be good for 1 to 1/5 hours at top speed. I believe you can increase the range with external batteries, but I didn't get a good handle on that. So, if the question is "Can you fix this problem by throwing money at it?", the answer may well be yes.
There may be competitors to Torqeedo, as well.
Second, there are new battery types out there. The most obvious step up is the AGM battery. This is a sealed lead/acid battery with a different internal structure. They are more expensive than the old style, and maybe safer, but the reports I've read from people who installed them in sailboats is that they are not as reliable. Just anecdotes, but.....
Third, solar charging technology has come down in cost and gone up in performance. I think it would be interesting to do an analysis of how easy it would be to add solar charging as a option, how much it would cost to have an all-solar charging station at home or at the dock, and whether it would be possible to get enough panel area on Lily to make a solar-powered limp-home technology an option.
Peter