Re: [bolger] Got a new toy. Bolger Oldshoe (and a very special one) plus trolling motor question

If you want to see horsepower check out the Salmon and Halibut charter boats in Sitka and Homer AK. There is is something about three 300HP outboards across the stern of some of these aluminum fatties that really makes me cringe.

HJ



----- Original Message -----
From:
bolger@yahoogroups.com

To:
<bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Cc:

Sent:
Tue, 10 Oct 2017 15:24:02 -0700
Subject:
Re: [bolger] Got a new toy. Bolger Oldshoe (and a very special one) plus trolling motor question


There are at least a couple in the NW, my Pearl and Loafer, now in
northernmost California:

http://preview.tinyurl.com/y7ph5g9w

and

http://preview.tinyurl.com/ycmouauf

John Harris, of CLC fame, built one, but he hadn't yet learned that
symmetry is overrated, so he went to great lengths to put the mizzenmast
on the centerline. <g> I can't easily find a photo of John's boat, but
CoD might know where one is...

I spent the weekend with some other Coots down on the lower Siuslaw
River. Chinook salmon season is underway and the river was full of
(mostly) aluminum fishing boats with Great Big engines. I don't know
why. Back when a 35-40 hp. motor on a fishing boat was considered way
overkill (those were for ski boats) people had just as much fun and
caught plenty of fish. <shrug> 5 1/2s, 7 1/2s and maybe 9.9s or 10s were
what you'd see on the Siuslaw during salmon season 50 years ago. Now you
hardly see anything under 100 hp.

A lot of the fishermen are very inconsiderate, speeding by close to
docks and other fishermen throwing huge wakes. On a jaunt up the river I
ended up towing a small Swampscott dory "on the hip" (alongside), and it
got pretty unpleasant at times when the wakes hit. I got soaking wet
from the dory rearing up on the waves and then plunging down, splashing
big dollops of water into my cockpit. :o( I just don't understand how
those people think. It's as if they never look back to see what their
wakes do. Or they just don't care at all about other people. <sigh>

I guess I'm getting old. I had a good time on the river with my 9.9 hp.
Redwing. <g>


Big boats bouncing me in little boats taught me a lot about boat design.
My 10 foot Almost Jon Boat rides quiet well waked hard from almost any angle.


On Oct 10, 2017 17:24, "John Kohnenjhkohnen@...[bolger]" <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

There are at least a couple in the NW, my Pearl and Loafer, now in
northernmost California:

http://preview.tinyurl.com/ y7ph5g9w

and

http://preview.tinyurl.com/ ycmouauf

John Harris, of CLC fame, built one, but he hadn't yet learned that
symmetry is overrated, so he went to great lengths to put the mizzenmast
on the centerline. <g> I can't easily find a photo of John's boat, but
CoD might know where one is...

I spent the weekend with some other Coots down on the lower Siuslaw
River. Chinook salmon season is underway and the river was full of
(mostly) aluminum fishing boats with Great Big engines. I don't know
why. Back when a 35-40 hp. motor on a fishing boat was considered way
overkill (those were for ski boats) people had just as much fun and
caught plenty of fish. <shrug> 5 1/2s, 7 1/2s and maybe 9.9s or 10s were
what you'd see on the Siuslaw during salmon season 50 years ago. Now you
hardly see anything under 100 hp.

A lot of the fishermen are very inconsiderate, speeding by close to
docks and other fishermen throwing huge wakes. On a jaunt up the river I
ended up towing a small Swampscott dory "on the hip" (alongside), and it
got pretty unpleasant at times when the wakes hit. I got soaking wet
from the dory rearing up on the waves and then plunging down, splashing
big dollops of water into my cockpit. :o( I just don't understand how
those people think. It's as if they never look back to see what their
wakes do. Or they just don't care at all about other people. <sigh>

I guess I'm getting old. I had a good time on the river with my 9.9 hp.
Redwing. <g>

On 10/8/2017 9:34 AM, Buddy wrote:
> ...
> My dad used to take us fishing almost every weekend for about 1/3 of the
> year for many years running. He had a 24 ish foot very open boat with
> whatever HP you need to go pretty fast,
> ...
>
> I wonder how many Old Shoes have actually been built/finished? They seem
> pretty rare on the internet at least.

--
John (jkohnen@...)
I just think it's rather odd that a nation that prides itself on its
virility should feel compelled to strap on forty pounds of protective
gear just in order to play rugby. (Rupert Giles on American football)

John,

On the subject of the fishermen and how they handle their boats, it’s in how they view themselves.  They view themselves as “Fishermen”, not “Boaters”.  The boat is just a tool for getting to the fish and not the end desire for enjoying the day.  They take pride in their catch, not in their boat handling.  The exception to this of course is the actual professional fisherman.

Tom

On Oct 10, 2017, at 3:24 PM, John Kohnenjhkohnen@...[bolger] <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

There are at least a couple in the NW, my Pearl and Loafer, now in 
northernmost California:

http://preview.tinyurl.com/y7ph5g9w

and

http://preview.tinyurl.com/ycmouauf

John Harris, of CLC fame, built one, but he hadn't yet learned that 
symmetry is overrated, so he went to great lengths to put the mizzenmast 
on the centerline. <g> I can't easily find a photo of John's boat, but 
CoD might know where one is...

I spent the weekend with some other Coots down on the lower Siuslaw 
River. Chinook salmon season is underway and the river was full of 
(mostly) aluminum fishing boats with Great Big engines. I don't know 
why. Back when a 35-40 hp. motor on a fishing boat was considered way 
overkill (those were for ski boats) people had just as much fun and 
caught plenty of fish. <shrug> 5 1/2s, 7 1/2s and maybe 9.9s or 10s were 
what you'd see on the Siuslaw during salmon season 50 years ago. Now you 
hardly see anything under 100 hp.

A lot of the fishermen are very inconsiderate, speeding by close to 
docks and other fishermen throwing huge wakes. On a jaunt up the river I 
ended up towing a small Swampscott dory "on the hip" (alongside), and it 
got pretty unpleasant at times when the wakes hit. I got soaking wet 
from the dory rearing up on the waves and then plunging down, splashing 
big dollops of water into my cockpit. :o( I just don't understand how 
those people think. It's as if they never look back to see what their 
wakes do. Or they just don't care at all about other people. <sigh>

I guess I'm getting old. I had a good time on the river with my 9.9 hp. 
Redwing. <g>

On 10/8/2017 9:34 AM, Buddy wrote:
> ....
> My dad used to take us fishing almost every weekend for about 1/3 of the 
> year for many years running. He had a 24 ish foot very open boat with 
> whatever HP you need to go pretty fast,
> ...
> 
> I wonder how many Old Shoes have actually been built/finished? They seem 
> pretty rare on the internet at least.

-- 
John (jkohnen@...)
I just think it's rather odd that a nation that prides itself on its 
virility should feel compelled to strap on forty pounds of protective 
gear just in order to play rugby. (Rupert Giles on American football)


There are at least a couple in the NW, my Pearl and Loafer, now in
northernmost California:

http://preview.tinyurl.com/y7ph5g9w

and

http://preview.tinyurl.com/ycmouauf

John Harris, of CLC fame, built one, but he hadn't yet learned that
symmetry is overrated, so he went to great lengths to put the mizzenmast
on the centerline. <g> I can't easily find a photo of John's boat, but
CoD might know where one is...

I spent the weekend with some other Coots down on the lower Siuslaw
River. Chinook salmon season is underway and the river was full of
(mostly) aluminum fishing boats with Great Big engines. I don't know
why. Back when a 35-40 hp. motor on a fishing boat was considered way
overkill (those were for ski boats) people had just as much fun and
caught plenty of fish. <shrug> 5 1/2s, 7 1/2s and maybe 9.9s or 10s were
what you'd see on the Siuslaw during salmon season 50 years ago. Now you
hardly see anything under 100 hp.

A lot of the fishermen are very inconsiderate, speeding by close to
docks and other fishermen throwing huge wakes. On a jaunt up the river I
ended up towing a small Swampscott dory "on the hip" (alongside), and it
got pretty unpleasant at times when the wakes hit. I got soaking wet
from the dory rearing up on the waves and then plunging down, splashing
big dollops of water into my cockpit. :o( I just don't understand how
those people think. It's as if they never look back to see what their
wakes do. Or they just don't care at all about other people. <sigh>

I guess I'm getting old. I had a good time on the river with my 9.9 hp.
Redwing. <g>

On 10/8/2017 9:34 AM, Buddy wrote:
> ...
> My dad used to take us fishing almost every weekend for about 1/3 of the
> year for many years running. He had a 24 ish foot very open boat with
> whatever HP you need to go pretty fast,
> ...
>
> I wonder how many Old Shoes have actually been built/finished? They seem
> pretty rare on the internet at least.

--
John (jkohnen@...)
I just think it's rather odd that a nation that prides itself on its
virility should feel compelled to strap on forty pounds of protective
gear just in order to play rugby. (Rupert Giles on American football)

Yes, I can see that trend making sense.

Along those lines...after hurricane Ivan some very large sailboats were basically being given away...and LATER it occurred to me....get a piece of land out in the boonies.... get yourself a damaged 40 footer...put in some heat and AC.....and walla....a nice very weatherproof "tiny" house !

Personally, I think Old Shoe is very attractive....particularly the cat yawl rig....don't see those too often. Not a big fan of the bare aluminum on mine...might paint it at some point in the future.

You do have a point about material costs and parts and build time. I seem to recall one guy on the net....his Old Shoe cost almost $3k in materials when he added everything up !  And those were in dollars from a fair bit ago. Not to mention all the time and effort involved.

Probably a good thing I got a finished one. I'm the kind of guy that can spend hours thinking about how to cut one piece of wood just right....a boat with a lot of parts might never get finished by me. However, I am pretty good at taking things already built and tweeking things here and there. So it is for the best.

One downer I've realized about the boat. The hollow keel will fit batteries (pretty sure that was the plan all along). You standard 12 volt deep cycle battery is 6.75 inches wide Those will just fit in the keel. However, your standard deep cycle golf cart batteries are 7.25. And those will just NOT fit in the keel. Wish the guy had made the darn thing a half inch wider.

I wonder how long this hull will last/be used as sailboat? Nice to think of somebody sailing it a hundred years from now.

And I can't get over how BIG this little boat feels. I keep sitting in it and marveling at all the room. It really is the cockpit of a 30 foot boat with all but the cockpit removed.

Almost got the sail repaired. Hopefully get on the water this week and test out if the trolling motor will be enough.

take care

Buddy





-----Original Message-----
From: 'John Trussell' jtrussell2@... [bolger] <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
To: bolger <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Oct 9, 2017 6:31 am
Subject: RE: [bolger] Got a new toy. Bolger Oldshoe (and a very special one) plus trolling motor question

 
There seems to be a shortage of small displacement power boats. One solution which seems to be gaining in popularity is to get an old fiber glass sailboat, scrap the rig, and hang a modest outboard motor on the back.
 
Old Shoe is an example of putting a quart in a pint package. Although Old Shoe is short, it uses a lot of plywood and lead. It involves making and assembling a lot of pieces. (The length of time necessary to build a boat varies directly with the number of pieces!) Add to this the fact that Old Shoe is pretty homely in its looks and it isn’t a surprise that not very many of them have been built. Too bad, because from all accounts, they are pretty nice boats.
 
If it matters, John Harris of Chesapeake Light Craft has designed a boat which is supposed to have many of the capabilities of Old Shoe (with more attractive looks). He has encountered the same problems with cost of materials and build complexity, to the extent that it may not be a viable product in his kit line. Again, too bad.
 
Enjoy your Old Shoe.
 
JohnT
 
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]
Sent:Sunday, October 08, 2017 12:35 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject:Re: [bolger] Got a new toy. Bolger Oldshoe (and a very special one) plus trolling motor question
 
 
 
Thanks for that reply. Good reading.
 
My dad used to take us fishing almost every weekend for about 1/3 of the year for many years running. He had a 24 ish foot very open boat with whatever HP you need to go pretty fast, because we typically went about 15 to 20 miles give or take offshore to deep sea fish. The ride out was often a bit bumpy and the ride back as the waves built during the day brutal. I've often wondered what my total time is for being airborne (ie feet NOT on the deck) is. And the occasional violent thunderstorm ....shudder....
 
While I enjoyed the fishing (at least we almost always caught a fair number of fish) and the boating....well, the cost and aggravation of owning such a boat left an impression on even my young mind at the time.
 
I often considered getting a powerboat....but I am not rich and am pretty frugal....and the idea of having a boat with an expensive repair always lurking in the background did not appeal to me. And the fact it cost a good bit of money to USE said toy. So, I could not use it and wonder why I had it. Or I could use it and shell money out all the time for using it. I avoided such a conundrum for years.
 
Many years later I had the use of a 9 ft inflatable with a 4 hp motor. This is when I discovered that slow and cheap on the water was the way for me. An affordable motor. Burn very little gas for a whole days cruising. Little fuss or muss or costs. 
 
So now,  with the Old Shoe I can take that experience up a notch. Certainly a much drier and more comfortable boat than the inflatable (not that it was particularly bad). About the same speed, but with added fun challenge of sailing (plus the thing just looks so cool ! ). With a little luck an electric set up with a trolling motor will be all I need to supplement the sails....so even less fuss and muss and costs than the inflatable.
 
I wonder how many Old Shoes have actually been built/finished? They seem pretty rare on the internet at least.
 
take care
 
Buddy
 


-----Original Message-----
From: Chief Redelkchiefredelk@...[bolger] <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
To: bolger <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Oct 7, 2017 10:54 am
Subject: Re: [bolger] Got a new toy. Bolger Oldshoe (and a very special one) plus trolling motor question
 
Buddy, the end result all people seek is joy and happiness.
 
Being "giddy", is good..
 
What ever you paid for it it's worth it because you achieved joy.
 
However the value of Giddy is priceless but surprisingly Giddy can come cheap and at times even free.
 
I don't P the bed yet because I'm only 70.
 
If I did, I'd not be ashamed to admit it to my family and friends. 
 
Giddy is like that in a way because some men hide their emotions but being honest and humble or even childlike at times just assured us that we are sure men.
 
In fact your Giddy is my Giddy. I'm so happy for you.
 
I've been Giddy many times in life and still relish the memory
 
When John Wright drove many miles to my house to gift me a simple little Puddle Duck , that was a Giddy moment.
 
Maybe inside me a little big eyes boy resides because it doesn't take much to get my Giddy box hung up.
 
Learning new things,. Yep the Giddy box starts humming. A visit from friends and family, old Giddy box self cranks.
 
Giddy is just a great place to be.
 
Congratulations, enjoy your boat and don't worry about the damaged sail.
 
Learning to sail cost me a sail when the dock reached out and grabbed it
 
I learned how to make sails after that.
Blessings, Chiefredelk
 
N
Q
 
On Oct 5, 2017 10:02 AM, "BllFs6@...[bolger]" <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 
Hi all.

Bought a Bolger Old Shoe.

If you get onyahoo.comand search for "bolger old shoe sailboat craigslist"...it is currently the first pic in the "images" search results. Not a very good pic though.

Anyway,  this one is pretty special. It is an aluminum welded hull ! I suspect there are only 2 more space shuttles than aluminum Old Shoes. With a custom made homemade trailer that the guy actually had hot dip galvanized as well (this guy was no weekend plywood warrior here).

Got a it about 3 months back. Took it out twice and about died of heatstroke (well, not died, but way past uncomfortable and well into not feeling well at all territory). Finally, the heat has broken so ready to get back out shortly.

Now, I sailed hobbie cats and sunfishes a few dozen times back about 30 years ago and have been a helping passenger on "real" sailboats about another dozen or two times since then but that is sum total of my actual experience (but LOTS of reading on the internet about these sorta things). My first sail out was perfect. Nice 4 hour loop. Even SAILED into the dock single handedly, grabbed the end and swung around downwind like I had been doing this my whole life. Beginners luck, because the second sail was disaster because not quite enough wind...spent more time rowing than sailing (and that was NO fun) AND ripped the sail  (did something that was obviously stupid in hindsight).

Decided on a name for the craft as well.  "Al Yawl".

Might mount a beer tap on the side or back as well.

God it looks so pretty with those sails up.

Interesting design feature on this boat. The keel is "hollow". It is open at the top and is about 7 inches wide. Currently there are removable concrete blocks with lead inside them. A battery(s) will just fit in there ( I suspect that was the plan all along).

Which brings me to my next question. I've found a 100 lb thrust trolling motor on Craigs list dirt cheap, but the control head is caput. But the motor itself is fine. It nominally runs on 36V. Do you think I can just wire up the motor directly to 36 volts safely? And secondly, if I just power it with 24 volts what do you think the power output would be? My engineering guess is 2/3 rds squared....so about 4/9 th(s) and on 12 volts it would be 1/9th.

And finally, anybody with any experience pushing around an old shoe typeish sailboat with a 50 lb thrust or so trolling motor ?

Sure would be nice to avoid any kind of outboard motor.

PS. I've been in love with the Old Shoe since I ran across the design probably well over 10 years ago. And if there was any boat I was ever gonna build, that was probably going to be it. With perhaps Micro if the goal was actually to cruise sail/camp.

I'm almost giddy about this.

take care

Buddy

PS. You guys probably don't want to know how little I paid for it either :)



There seems to be a shortage of small displacement power boats. One solution which seems to be gaining in popularity is to get an old fiber glass sailboat, scrap the rig, and hang a modest outboard motor on the back.

 

Old Shoe is an example of putting a quart in a pint package. Although Old Shoe is short, it uses a lot of plywood and lead. It involves making and assembling a lot of pieces. (The length of time necessary to build a boat varies directly with the number of pieces!) Add to this the fact that Old Shoe is pretty homely in its looks and it isn’t a surprise that not very many of them have been built. Too bad, because from all accounts, they are pretty nice boats.

 

If it matters, John Harris of Chesapeake Light Craft has designed a boat which is supposed to have many of the capabilities of Old Shoe (with more attractive looks). He has encountered the same problems with cost of materials and build complexity, to the extent that it may not be a viable product in his kit line. Again, too bad.

 

Enjoy your Old Shoe.

 

JohnT

 

From:bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]
Sent:Sunday, October 08, 2017 12:35 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject:Re: [bolger] Got a new toy. Bolger Oldshoe (and a very special one) plus trolling motor question

 

 

 

Thanks for that reply. Good reading.

 

My dad used to take us fishing almost every weekend for about 1/3 of the year for many years running. He had a 24 ish foot very open boat with whatever HP you need to go pretty fast, because we typically went about 15 to 20 miles give or take offshore to deep sea fish. The ride out was often a bit bumpy and the ride back as the waves built during the day brutal. I've often wondered what my total time is for being airborne (ie feet NOT on the deck) is. And the occasional violent thunderstorm ....shudder....

 

While I enjoyed the fishing (at least we almost always caught a fair number of fish) and the boating....well, the cost and aggravation of owning such a boat left an impression on even my young mind at the time.

 

I often considered getting a powerboat....but I am not rich and am pretty frugal....and the idea of having a boat with an expensive repair always lurking in the background did not appeal to me. And the fact it cost a good bit of money to USE said toy. So, I could not use it and wonder why I had it. Or I could use it and shell money out all the time for using it. I avoided such a conundrum for years.

 

Many years later I had the use of a 9 ft inflatable with a 4 hp motor. This is when I discovered that slow and cheap on the water was the way for me. An affordable motor. Burn very little gas for a whole days cruising. Little fuss or muss or costs. 

 

So now,  with the Old Shoe I can take that experience up a notch. Certainly a much drier and more comfortable boat than the inflatable (not that it was particularly bad). About the same speed, but with added fun challenge of sailing (plus the thing just looks so cool ! ). With a little luck an electric set up with a trolling motor will be all I need to supplement the sails....so even less fuss and muss and costs than the inflatable.

 

I wonder how many Old Shoes have actually been built/finished? They seem pretty rare on the internet at least.

 

take care

 

Buddy

 



-----Original Message-----
From: Chief Redelkchiefredelk@...[bolger] <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
To: bolger <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Oct 7, 2017 10:54 am
Subject: Re: [bolger] Got a new toy. Bolger Oldshoe (and a very special one) plus trolling motor question

 

Buddy, the end result all people seek is joy and happiness.

 

Being "giddy", is good..

 

What ever you paid for it it's worth it because you achieved joy.

 

However the value of Giddy is priceless but surprisingly Giddy can come cheap and at times even free.

 

I don't P the bed yet because I'm only 70.

 

If I did, I'd not be ashamed to admit it to my family and friends. 

 

Giddy is like that in a way because some men hide their emotions but being honest and humble or even childlike at times just assured us that we are sure men.

 

In fact your Giddy is my Giddy. I'm so happy for you.

 

I've been Giddy many times in life and still relish the memory

 

When John Wright drove many miles to my house to gift me a simple little Puddle Duck , that was a Giddy moment.

 

Maybe inside me a little big eyes boy resides because it doesn't take much to get my Giddy box hung up.

 

Learning new things,. Yep the Giddy box starts humming. A visit from friends and family, old Giddy box self cranks.

 

Giddy is just a great place to be.

 

Congratulations, enjoy your boat and don't worry about the damaged sail.

 

Learning to sail cost me a sail when the dock reached out and grabbed it

 

I learned how to make sails after that.

Blessings, Chiefredelk

 

N

Q

 

On Oct 5, 2017 10:02 AM, "BllFs6@...[bolger]" <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Hi all.

Bought a Bolger Old Shoe.

If you get onyahoo.comand search for "bolger old shoe sailboat craigslist"...it is currently the first pic in the "images" search results. Not a very good pic though.

Anyway,  this one is pretty special. It is an aluminum welded hull ! I suspect there are only 2 more space shuttles than aluminum Old Shoes. With a custom made homemade trailer that the guy actually had hot dip galvanized as well (this guy was no weekend plywood warrior here).

Got a it about 3 months back. Took it out twice and about died of heatstroke (well, not died, but way past uncomfortable and well into not feeling well at all territory). Finally, the heat has broken so ready to get back out shortly.

Now, I sailed hobbie cats and sunfishes a few dozen times back about 30 years ago and have been a helping passenger on "real" sailboats about another dozen or two times since then but that is sum total of my actual experience (but LOTS of reading on the internet about these sorta things). My first sail out was perfect. Nice 4 hour loop. Even SAILED into the dock single handedly, grabbed the end and swung around downwind like I had been doing this my whole life. Beginners luck, because the second sail was disaster because not quite enough wind...spent more time rowing than sailing (and that was NO fun) AND ripped the sail  (did something that was obviously stupid in hindsight).

Decided on a name for the craft as well.  "Al Yawl".

Might mount a beer tap on the side or back as well.

God it looks so pretty with those sails up.

Interesting design feature on this boat. The keel is "hollow". It is open at the top and is about 7 inches wide. Currently there are removable concrete blocks with lead inside them. A battery(s) will just fit in there ( I suspect that was the plan all along).

Which brings me to my next question. I've found a 100 lb thrust trolling motor on Craigs list dirt cheap, but the control head is caput. But the motor itself is fine. It nominally runs on 36V. Do you think I can just wire up the motor directly to 36 volts safely? And secondly, if I just power it with 24 volts what do you think the power output would be? My engineering guess is 2/3 rds squared....so about 4/9 th(s) and on 12 volts it would be 1/9th.

And finally, anybody with any experience pushing around an old shoe typeish sailboat with a 50 lb thrust or so trolling motor ?

Sure would be nice to avoid any kind of outboard motor.

PS. I've been in love with the Old Shoe since I ran across the design probably well over 10 years ago. And if there was any boat I was ever gonna build, that was probably going to be it. With perhaps Micro if the goal was actually to cruise sail/camp.

I'm almost giddy about this.

take care

Buddy

PS. You guys probably don't want to know how little I paid for it either :)



Totally agree.

On Oct 8, 2017 11:34, "BllFs6@...[bolger]" <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


Thanks for that reply. Good reading.

My dad used to take us fishing almost every weekend for about 1/3 of the year for many years running. He had a 24 ish foot very open boat with whatever HP you need to go pretty fast, because we typically went about 15 to 20 miles give or take offshore to deep sea fish. The ride out was often a bit bumpy and the ride back as the waves built during the day brutal. I've often wondered what my total time is for being airborne (ie feet NOT on the deck) is. And the occasional violent thunderstorm ....shudder....

While I enjoyed the fishing (at least we almost always caught a fair number of fish) and the boating....well, the cost and aggravation of owning such a boat left an impression on even my young mind at the time.

I often considered getting a powerboat....but I am not rich and am pretty frugal....and the idea of having a boat with an expensive repair always lurking in the background did not appeal to me. And the fact it cost a good bit of money to USE said toy. So, I could not use it and wonder why I had it. Or I could use it and shell money out all the time for using it. I avoided such a conundrum for years.

Many years later I had the use of a 9 ft inflatable with a 4 hp motor. This is when I discovered that slow and cheap on the water was the way for me. An affordable motor. Burn very little gas for a whole days cruising. Little fuss or muss or costs.

So now,  with the Old Shoe I can take that experience up a notch. Certainly a much drier and more comfortable boat than the inflatable (not that it was particularly bad). About the same speed, but with added fun challenge of sailing (plus the thing just looks so cool ! ). With a little luck an electric set up with a trolling motor will be all I need to supplement the sails....so even less fuss and muss and costs than the inflatable.

I wonder how many Old Shoes have actually been built/finished? They seem pretty rare on the internet at least.

take care

Buddy




-----Original Message-----
From: Chief Redelkchiefredelk@...[bolger] <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
To: bolger <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Oct 7, 2017 10:54 am
Subject: Re: [bolger] Got a new toy. Bolger Oldshoe (and a very special one) plus trolling motor question

Buddy, the end result all people seek is joy and happiness.

Being "giddy", is good..

What ever you paid for it it's worth it because you achieved joy.

However the value of Giddy is priceless but surprisingly Giddy can come cheap and at times even free.

I don't P the bed yet because I'm only 70.

If I did, I'd not be ashamed to admit it to my family and friends.

Giddy is like that in a way because some men hide their emotions but being honest and humble or even childlike at times just assured us that we are sure men.

In fact your Giddy is my Giddy. I'm so happy for you.

I've been Giddy many times in life and still relish the memory

When John Wright drove many miles to my house to gift me a simple little Puddle Duck , that was a Giddy moment.

Maybe inside me a little big eyes boy resides because it doesn't take much to get my Giddy box hung up.

Learning new things,. Yep the Giddy box starts humming. A visit from friends and family, old Giddy box self cranks.

Giddy is just a great place to be.

Congratulations, enjoy your boat and don't worry about the damaged sail.

Learning to sail cost me a sail when the dock reached out and grabbed it

I learned how to make sails after that.
Blessings, Chiefredelk

N
Q

On Oct 5, 2017 10:02 AM, "BllFs6@...[bolger]" <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Hi all.

Bought a Bolger Old Shoe.

If you get onyahoo.comand search for "bolger old shoe sailboat craigslist"...it is currently the first pic in the "images" search results. Not a very good pic though.

Anyway,  this one is pretty special. It is an aluminum welded hull ! I suspect there are only 2 more space shuttles than aluminum Old Shoes. With a custom made homemade trailer that the guy actually had hot dip galvanized as well (this guy was no weekend plywood warrior here).

Got a it about 3 months back. Took it out twice and about died of heatstroke (well, not died, but way past uncomfortable and well into not feeling well at all territory). Finally, the heat has broken so ready to get back out shortly.

Now, I sailed hobbie cats and sunfishes a few dozen times back about 30 years ago and have been a helping passenger on "real" sailboats about another dozen or two times since then but that is sum total of my actual experience (but LOTS of reading on the internet about these sorta things). My first sail out was perfect. Nice 4 hour loop. Even SAILED into the dock single handedly, grabbed the end and swung around downwind like I had been doing this my whole life. Beginners luck, because the second sail was disaster because not quite enough wind...spent more time rowing than sailing (and that was NO fun) AND ripped the sail  (did something that was obviously stupid in hindsight).

Decided on a name for the craft as well.  "Al Yawl".

Might mount a beer tap on the side or back as well.

God it looks so pretty with those sails up.

Interesting design feature on this boat. The keel is "hollow". It is open at the top and is about 7 inches wide. Currently there are removable concrete blocks with lead inside them. A battery(s) will just fit in there ( I suspect that was the plan all along).

Which brings me to my next question. I've found a 100 lb thrust trolling motor on Craigs list dirt cheap, but the control head is caput. But the motor itself is fine. It nominally runs on 36V. Do you think I can just wire up the motor directly to 36 volts safely? And secondly, if I just power it with 24 volts what do you think the power output would be? My engineering guess is 2/3 rds squared....so about 4/9 th(s) and on 12 volts it would be 1/9th.

And finally, anybody with any experience pushing around an old shoe typeish sailboat with a 50 lb thrust or so trolling motor ?

Sure would be nice to avoid any kind of outboard motor.

PS. I've been in love with the Old Shoe since I ran across the design probably well over 10 years ago. And if there was any boat I was ever gonna build, that was probably going to be it. With perhaps Micro if the goal was actually to cruise sail/camp.

I'm almost giddy about this.

take care

Buddy

PS. You guys probably don't want to know how little I paid for it either :)





Thanks for that reply. Good reading.

My dad used to take us fishing almost every weekend for about 1/3 of the year for many years running. He had a 24 ish foot very open boat with whatever HP you need to go pretty fast, because we typically went about 15 to 20 miles give or take offshore to deep sea fish. The ride out was often a bit bumpy and the ride back as the waves built during the day brutal. I've often wondered what my total time is for being airborne (ie feet NOT on the deck) is. And the occasional violent thunderstorm ....shudder....

While I enjoyed the fishing (at least we almost always caught a fair number of fish) and the boating....well, the cost and aggravation of owning such a boat left an impression on even my young mind at the time.

I often considered getting a powerboat....but I am not rich and am pretty frugal....and the idea of having a boat with an expensive repair always lurking in the background did not appeal to me. And the fact it cost a good bit of money to USE said toy. So, I could not use it and wonder why I had it. Or I could use it and shell money out all the time for using it. I avoided such a conundrum for years.

Many years later I had the use of a 9 ft inflatable with a 4 hp motor. This is when I discovered that slow and cheap on the water was the way for me. An affordable motor. Burn very little gas for a whole days cruising. Little fuss or muss or costs. 

So now,  with the Old Shoe I can take that experience up a notch. Certainly a much drier and more comfortable boat than the inflatable (not that it was particularly bad). About the same speed, but with added fun challenge of sailing (plus the thing just looks so cool ! ). With a little luck an electric set up with a trolling motor will be all I need to supplement the sails....so even less fuss and muss and costs than the inflatable.

I wonder how many Old Shoes have actually been built/finished? They seem pretty rare on the internet at least.

take care

Buddy




-----Original Message-----
From: Chief Redelk chiefredelk@... [bolger] <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
To: bolger <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Oct 7, 2017 10:54 am
Subject: Re: [bolger] Got a new toy. Bolger Oldshoe (and a very special one) plus trolling motor question

 
Buddy, the end result all people seek is joy and happiness.

Being "giddy", is good..

What ever you paid for it it's worth it because you achieved joy.

However the value of Giddy is priceless but surprisingly Giddy can come cheap and at times even free.

I don't P the bed yet because I'm only 70.

If I did, I'd not be ashamed to admit it to my family and friends. 

Giddy is like that in a way because some men hide their emotions but being honest and humble or even childlike at times just assured us that we are sure men.

In fact your Giddy is my Giddy. I'm so happy for you.

I've been Giddy many times in life and still relish the memory

When John Wright drove many miles to my house to gift me a simple little Puddle Duck , that was a Giddy moment.

Maybe inside me a little big eyes boy resides because it doesn't take much to get my Giddy box hung up.

Learning new things,. Yep the Giddy box starts humming. A visit from friends and family, old Giddy box self cranks.

Giddy is just a great place to be.

Congratulations, enjoy your boat and don't worry about the damaged sail.

Learning to sail cost me a sail when the dock reached out and grabbed it

I learned how to make sails after that.
Blessings, Chiefredelk

N
Q

On Oct 5, 2017 10:02 AM, "BllFs6@...[bolger]" <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 
Hi all.

Bought a Bolger Old Shoe.

If you get onyahoo.comand search for "bolger old shoe sailboat craigslist"...it is currently the first pic in the "images" search results. Not a very good pic though.

Anyway,  this one is pretty special. It is an aluminum welded hull ! I suspect there are only 2 more space shuttles than aluminum Old Shoes. With a custom made homemade trailer that the guy actually had hot dip galvanized as well (this guy was no weekend plywood warrior here).

Got a it about 3 months back. Took it out twice and about died of heatstroke (well, not died, but way past uncomfortable and well into not feeling well at all territory). Finally, the heat has broken so ready to get back out shortly.

Now, I sailed hobbie cats and sunfishes a few dozen times back about 30 years ago and have been a helping passenger on "real" sailboats about another dozen or two times since then but that is sum total of my actual experience (but LOTS of reading on the internet about these sorta things). My first sail out was perfect. Nice 4 hour loop. Even SAILED into the dock single handedly, grabbed the end and swung around downwind like I had been doing this my whole life. Beginners luck, because the second sail was disaster because not quite enough wind...spent more time rowing than sailing (and that was NO fun) AND ripped the sail  (did something that was obviously stupid in hindsight).

Decided on a name for the craft as well.  "Al Yawl".

Might mount a beer tap on the side or back as well.

God it looks so pretty with those sails up.

Interesting design feature on this boat. The keel is "hollow". It is open at the top and is about 7 inches wide. Currently there are removable concrete blocks with lead inside them. A battery(s) will just fit in there ( I suspect that was the plan all along).

Which brings me to my next question. I've found a 100 lb thrust trolling motor on Craigs list dirt cheap, but the control head is caput. But the motor itself is fine. It nominally runs on 36V. Do you think I can just wire up the motor directly to 36 volts safely? And secondly, if I just power it with 24 volts what do you think the power output would be? My engineering guess is 2/3 rds squared....so about 4/9 th(s) and on 12 volts it would be 1/9th.

And finally, anybody with any experience pushing around an old shoe typeish sailboat with a 50 lb thrust or so trolling motor ?

Sure would be nice to avoid any kind of outboard motor.

PS. I've been in love with the Old Shoe since I ran across the design probably well over 10 years ago. And if there was any boat I was ever gonna build, that was probably going to be it. With perhaps Micro if the goal was actually to cruise sail/camp.

I'm almost giddy about this.

take care

Buddy

PS. You guys probably don't want to know how little I paid for it either :)




Buddy, the end result all people seek is joy and happiness.

Being "giddy", is good..

What ever you paid for it it's worth it because you achieved joy.

However the value of Giddy is priceless but surprisingly Giddy can come cheap and at times even free.

I don't P the bed yet because I'm only 70.

If I did, I'd not be ashamed to admit it to my family and friends.

Giddy is like that in a way because some men hide their emotions but being honest and humble or even childlike at times just assured us that we are sure men.

In fact your Giddy is my Giddy. I'm so happy for you.

I've been Giddy many times in life and still relish the memory

When John Wright drove many miles to my house to gift me a simple little Puddle Duck , that was a Giddy moment.

Maybe inside me a little big eyes boy resides because it doesn't take much to get my Giddy box hung up.

Learning new things,. Yep the Giddy box starts humming. A visit from friends and family, old Giddy box self cranks.

Giddy is just a great place to be.

Congratulations, enjoy your boat and don't worry about the damaged sail.

Learning to sail cost me a sail when the dock reached out and grabbed it

I learned how to make sails after that.
Blessings, Chiefredelk

N
Q

On Oct 5, 2017 10:02 AM, "BllFs6@...[bolger]" <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Hi all.

Bought a Bolger Old Shoe.

If you get onyahoo.comand search for "bolger old shoe sailboat craigslist"...it is currently the first pic in the "images" search results. Not a very good pic though.

Anyway,  this one is pretty special. It is an aluminum welded hull ! I suspect there are only 2 more space shuttles than aluminum Old Shoes. With a custom made homemade trailer that the guy actually had hot dip galvanized as well (this guy was no weekend plywood warrior here).

Got a it about 3 months back. Took it out twice and about died of heatstroke (well, not died, but way past uncomfortable and well into not feeling well at all territory). Finally, the heat has broken so ready to get back out shortly.

Now, I sailed hobbie cats and sunfishes a few dozen times back about 30 years ago and have been a helping passenger on "real" sailboats about another dozen or two times since then but that is sum total of my actual experience (but LOTS of reading on the internet about these sorta things). My first sail out was perfect. Nice 4 hour loop. Even SAILED into the dock single handedly, grabbed the end and swung around downwind like I had been doing this my whole life. Beginners luck, because the second sail was disaster because not quite enough wind...spent more time rowing than sailing (and that was NO fun) AND ripped the sail  (did something that was obviously stupid in hindsight).

Decided on a name for the craft as well.  "Al Yawl".

Might mount a beer tap on the side or back as well.

God it looks so pretty with those sails up.

Interesting design feature on this boat. The keel is "hollow". It is open at the top and is about 7 inches wide. Currently there are removable concrete blocks with lead inside them. A battery(s) will just fit in there ( I suspect that was the plan all along).

Which brings me to my next question. I've found a 100 lb thrust trolling motor on Craigs list dirt cheap, but the control head is caput. But the motor itself is fine. It nominally runs on 36V. Do you think I can just wire up the motor directly to 36 volts safely? And secondly, if I just power it with 24 volts what do you think the power output would be? My engineering guess is 2/3 rds squared....so about 4/9 th(s) and on 12 volts it would be 1/9th.

And finally, anybody with any experience pushing around an old shoe typeish sailboat with a 50 lb thrust or so trolling motor ?

Sure would be nice to avoid any kind of outboard motor.

PS. I've been in love with the Old Shoe since I ran across the design probably well over 10 years ago. And if there was any boat I was ever gonna build, that was probably going to be it. With perhaps Micro if the goal was actually to cruise sail/camp.

I'm almost giddy about this.

take care

Buddy

PS. You guys probably don't want to know how little I paid for it either :)







Thanks for the input.

The keel aft of the battery "area" is free flooding. The area forward of that is not (or at least I think not....it appears to be totally sealed which I don't like...will probably put some plugs in so I can rinse it out....don't trust salt water in the dark :) ). However that area does not involve much volume/bouyancy.

As for the batteries. Yes they are not as dense as lead, but they will sit down in the keel....so as far as center of gravity vertically they are reasonably close to what the design calls for...and three batteries come in at about 200 lbs. I need to calculate the weight of the boat and compare that to original design as well. After doing that I might make the forward area free flooding. 

Ripped the sail on second sail doing something pretty stupid in hindsight. Fixing it now as heat has finally ended around here and can now set up / sail without getting borderline heatstroke.

Will probably be asking around the net here shortly on how to properly set up a leg o' mutton sail (not sure how tense/taunt/straight line the sail should be).

It's kinda weird to have a mast so tall on such small boat.

Have been reading around on the net. Looking like I might be able to get by with a 50 to 100 lb thrust trolling motor and get close enough to hull speed . Which would give me 2 to 4 hours run time on the batteries. Enough for me to fight the wind to get "home" or cruise back should the wind die. Sure would be nice to not have to mess with an outboard motor.

take care

Buddy




-----Original Message-----
From: John Kohnen jhkohnen@... [bolger] <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
To: bolger <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Oct 5, 2017 4:05 pm
Subject: Re: [bolger] Got a new toy. Bolger Oldshoe (and a very special one) plus trolling motor question

 
Congratulations, Buddy! Oldshoe is a great old fogey boat, real
comfortable. I sure love mine. :o)

The design calls for about 200 lb. of lead in the keel. On the wooden
ones, the ends of the keel, where there's no lead, are free flooding.
You wider keel will be full of buoyant air where it isn't full of
ballast, so you'll need more ballast/batteries to get the same effect.
Also, batteries are less dense than pure lead, so the center of gravity
will be bit higher, requiring more weight for the same righting effect.

I replaced the leg o' mutton mainsail on my Oldshoe this year with a
balance lugsail of about the same area. I really like it. :o) The
sprit-boomed leg o' mutton is a great sail for many uses, but it's
awkward to handle on the Oldshoe, and you can't lower or reef it without
a sail track. I hate sail track, and I never figured out a good way to
put one on the slender, whippy Oldshoe mainmast. I've got the lugsail
set up so I can handle it entirely from the cockpit, without ever having
to kneel on the hatch. :o)

Have fun with your Oldshoe, Buddy!

On 10/5/2017 8:01 AM, Buddy wrote:
>
>
> Hi all.
>
> Bought a Bolger Old Shoe.
> ...
> Anyway,  this one is pretty special. It is an aluminum welded hull! I
> suspect there are only 2 more space shuttles than aluminum Old Shoes.
> ...
> Interesting design feature on this boat. The keel is "hollow". It is
> open at the top and is about 7 inches wide. Currently there are
> removable concrete blocks with lead inside them. A battery(s) will just
> fit in there ( I suspect that was the plan all along).
> ...
--
--
John (jkohnen@...)
A hypocrite is a person who -- but who isn't? (Don Marquis)


That's gotta be him. Well, at least if he built it.

Are these emails archived somewhere?


-----Original Message-----
From: jmeddock@... [bolger] <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
To: bolger <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Oct 5, 2017 7:15 pm
Subject: [bolger] Re: Got a new toy. Bolger Oldshoe (and a very special one) plus trolling motor question

 
Seems like a builder was discussing building that here way back in early-mid 2000s. Worth a search to see if it is the same one.

Justin
Seems like a builder was discussing building that here way back in early-mid 2000s. Worth a search to see if it is the same one.

Justin
Congratulations, Buddy! Oldshoe is a great old fogey boat, real
comfortable. I sure love mine. :o)

The design calls for about 200 lb. of lead in the keel. On the wooden
ones, the ends of the keel, where there's no lead, are free flooding.
You wider keel will be full of buoyant air where it isn't full of
ballast, so you'll need more ballast/batteries to get the same effect.
Also, batteries are less dense than pure lead, so the center of gravity
will be bit higher, requiring more weight for the same righting effect.

I replaced the leg o' mutton mainsail on my Oldshoe this year with a
balance lugsail of about the same area. I really like it. :o) The
sprit-boomed leg o' mutton is a great sail for many uses, but it's
awkward to handle on the Oldshoe, and you can't lower or reef it without
a sail track. I hate sail track, and I never figured out a good way to
put one on the slender, whippy Oldshoe mainmast. I've got the lugsail
set up so I can handle it entirely from the cockpit, without ever having
to kneel on the hatch. :o)

Have fun with your Oldshoe, Buddy!

On 10/5/2017 8:01 AM, Buddy wrote:
>
>
> Hi all.
>
> Bought a Bolger Old Shoe.
> ...
> Anyway,  this one is pretty special. It is an aluminum welded hull! I
> suspect there are only 2 more space shuttles than aluminum Old Shoes.
> ...
> Interesting design feature on this boat. The keel is "hollow". It is
> open at the top and is about 7 inches wide. Currently there are
> removable concrete blocks with lead inside them. A battery(s) will just
> fit in there ( I suspect that was the plan all along).
> ...
--
--
John (jkohnen@...)
A hypocrite is a person who -- but who isn't? (Don Marquis)
Hi all.

Bought a Bolger Old Shoe.

If you get on yahoo.com and search for "bolger old shoe sailboat craigslist"...it is currently the first pic in the "images" search results. Not a very good pic though.

Anyway,  this one is pretty special. It is an aluminum welded hull ! I suspect there are only 2 more space shuttles than aluminum Old Shoes. With a custom made homemade trailer that the guy actually had hot dip galvanized as well (this guy was no weekend plywood warrior here).

Got a it about 3 months back. Took it out twice and about died of heatstroke (well, not died, but way past uncomfortable and well into not feeling well at all territory). Finally, the heat has broken so ready to get back out shortly.

Now, I sailed hobbie cats and sunfishes a few dozen times back about 30 years ago and have been a helping passenger on "real" sailboats about another dozen or two times since then but that is sum total of my actual experience (but LOTS of reading on the internet about these sorta things). My first sail out was perfect. Nice 4 hour loop. Even SAILED into the dock single handedly, grabbed the end and swung around downwind like I had been doing this my whole life. Beginners luck, because the second sail was disaster because not quite enough wind...spent more time rowing than sailing (and that was NO fun) AND ripped the sail  (did something that was obviously stupid in hindsight).

Decided on a name for the craft as well.  "Al Yawl".

Might mount a beer tap on the side or back as well.

God it looks so pretty with those sails up.

Interesting design feature on this boat. The keel is "hollow". It is open at the top and is about 7 inches wide. Currently there are removable concrete blocks with lead inside them. A battery(s) will just fit in there ( I suspect that was the plan all along).

Which brings me to my next question. I've found a 100 lb thrust trolling motor on Craigs list dirt cheap, but the control head is caput. But the motor itself is fine. It nominally runs on 36V. Do you think I can just wire up the motor directly to 36 volts safely? And secondly, if I just power it with 24 volts what do you think the power output would be? My engineering guess is 2/3 rds squared....so about 4/9 th(s) and on 12 volts it would be 1/9th.

And finally, anybody with any experience pushing around an old shoe typeish sailboat with a 50 lb thrust or so trolling motor ?

Sure would be nice to avoid any kind of outboard motor.

PS. I've been in love with the Old Shoe since I ran across the design probably well over 10 years ago. And if there was any boat I was ever gonna build, that was probably going to be it. With perhaps Micro if the goal was actually to cruise sail/camp.

I'm almost giddy about this.

take care

Buddy

PS. You guys probably don't want to know how little I paid for it either :)