Re: Micro chines
Mark, I think that I tend to abund a bit myself when I use epoxy.
For instance, when I glue there's always a bit too much epoxy
squeezing out of the joints that I have to clean.
I just completed my first fiberglass butt joint (Micro, port hull
side). Used 15 cm wide FG wide tape, biaxial, average weight 350
g/sq.m (about 10.5 oz), 1.05 m long. Total resin used was 240 g wich
I used for precoating, tape wetting and for some thickened epoxy to
fill up the butt line. This was a bit too much though, I could have
done everything with 200 g. Best, Pippo
For instance, when I glue there's always a bit too much epoxy
squeezing out of the joints that I have to clean.
I just completed my first fiberglass butt joint (Micro, port hull
side). Used 15 cm wide FG wide tape, biaxial, average weight 350
g/sq.m (about 10.5 oz), 1.05 m long. Total resin used was 240 g wich
I used for precoating, tape wetting and for some thickened epoxy to
fill up the butt line. This was a bit too much though, I could have
done everything with 200 g. Best, Pippo
--- Inbolger@egroups.com, Mark Albanese <marka@o...> wrote:
> I don't know what to say. I've never had it go that far
> myself. I'm always mixing up a little more. Maybe I over do it.
Next
time
> try Larry's. The throwaway brushes are quite good.
>She is 25 ft. and is multichined with double 12oz. tape on the chines inside
> Mark, How big is Caprice? 18 gal of epoxy is sure a lot. Clyde
>
and out, then 2.5oz. over everything external. Also there are four ballast
tanks which are taped, and coated. It looks like I will have three or four
gallons left for my next project - a lapstrake ply canoe peace offering for
my wife.
Chuck
Mark, How big is Caprice? 18 gal of epoxy is sure a lot. Clyde
Chuck Leinweber wrote:>
Chuck Leinweber wrote:>
> Mark:
>
> For my current project (Jim Michalak's Caprice) I started out with a six
> gallon kit from Raka. When there were two gallons left, I ordered six more.
> I am now on my third six gallon batch, and I think I can stretch it to the
> end. I had no idea it would take so much resin.
>
> Chuck
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing
> - stay on topic
> - use punctuation
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
CONTAINS DREAR-READER DISCRETION ADVISED!
Hi, Pippo
Great that you've kept good notes.
I weighed 30 ml (1 ounce) of resin to be about 32 g. ( I'll
assume the hardener is about the same. ) If saturation were
40% of 500 g per meter square used for gluing, then, 200 g is187.5 ml for the
square meter. In English units, about 6 1/4 fluid oz. per square yard, or
( 6.25 / 9 = .69 ) two thirds ounce per square foot.
This seems quite thinly applied to me.
But it is close to System Three's literature. 250 square ft.
x .69 = 172.5 fluid oz., or, not 1 but 1.35 gallons needed.
Metrically, they say 27.7 sq. meter needs 3.8 liter, your
experience indicates using 5.13. Using 30 rather than
40 percent above would bring it in exactly.
( Time out. Gonna weigh the hardener... )
It's about the same.
I don't know what to say. I've never had it go that far
myself. I'm always mixing up a little more. Maybe I over do it. Next time
try Larry's. The throwaway brushes are quite good.
Thanks much,
Mark
Giuseppe Bianco wrote:
Hi, Pippo
Great that you've kept good notes.
I weighed 30 ml (1 ounce) of resin to be about 32 g. ( I'll
assume the hardener is about the same. ) If saturation were
40% of 500 g per meter square used for gluing, then, 200 g is187.5 ml for the
square meter. In English units, about 6 1/4 fluid oz. per square yard, or
( 6.25 / 9 = .69 ) two thirds ounce per square foot.
This seems quite thinly applied to me.
But it is close to System Three's literature. 250 square ft.
x .69 = 172.5 fluid oz., or, not 1 but 1.35 gallons needed.
Metrically, they say 27.7 sq. meter needs 3.8 liter, your
experience indicates using 5.13. Using 30 rather than
40 percent above would bring it in exactly.
( Time out. Gonna weigh the hardener... )
It's about the same.
I don't know what to say. I've never had it go that far
myself. I'm always mixing up a little more. Maybe I over do it. Next time
try Larry's. The throwaway brushes are quite good.
Thanks much,
Mark
Giuseppe Bianco wrote:
>
> Mark, as far as fiberglassing is concerned, a rule of thumb is to
> allow for a weight of the resin equal to that of the fiberglass. This
> works fine for me. For gluing, my notes indicate about 500 g of epoxy
> resin and hardener for 1 square meter of gluing surface, including
> pre saturation of both faces. Saturation only should be about 30-40%
> of the total.
> I've noticed that System Three's epoxy book numbers apply fairly well
> for my non-brand epoxy.
> In general, I would suggest to work with very small epoxy batches. I
> normally prepare 80 to 120 g batches every time.
> Best glue mix for me is a 50% (in volume) mixture of epoxy and
> Aerosil.
> Since I'm here, I would add that to me the best tool to spread glue
> is a throw-away brush, the same that I use to precoat the surfaces.
> Much better than squeegees or tongue depressors.
> Best, Pippo
>
> --- Inbolger@egroups.com, Mark Albanese <marka@o...> wrote:
> > Does anyone have a good formula for estimating epoxy usage?
> > The makers seem to think it goes about ten times farther
> > than it ever has for me.
>
Mark, as far as fiberglassing is concerned, a rule of thumb is to
allow for a weight of the resin equal to that of the fiberglass. This
works fine for me. For gluing, my notes indicate about 500 g of epoxy
resin and hardener for 1 square meter of gluing surface, including
pre saturation of both faces. Saturation only should be about 30-40%
of the total.
I've noticed that System Three's epoxy book numbers apply fairly well
for my non-brand epoxy.
In general, I would suggest to work with very small epoxy batches. I
normally prepare 80 to 120 g batches every time.
Best glue mix for me is a 50% (in volume) mixture of epoxy and
Aerosil.
Since I'm here, I would add that to me the best tool to spread glue
is a throw-away brush, the same that I use to precoat the surfaces.
Much better than squeegees or tongue depressors.
Best, Pippo
allow for a weight of the resin equal to that of the fiberglass. This
works fine for me. For gluing, my notes indicate about 500 g of epoxy
resin and hardener for 1 square meter of gluing surface, including
pre saturation of both faces. Saturation only should be about 30-40%
of the total.
I've noticed that System Three's epoxy book numbers apply fairly well
for my non-brand epoxy.
In general, I would suggest to work with very small epoxy batches. I
normally prepare 80 to 120 g batches every time.
Best glue mix for me is a 50% (in volume) mixture of epoxy and
Aerosil.
Since I'm here, I would add that to me the best tool to spread glue
is a throw-away brush, the same that I use to precoat the surfaces.
Much better than squeegees or tongue depressors.
Best, Pippo
--- Inbolger@egroups.com, Mark Albanese <marka@o...> wrote:
> Does anyone have a good formula for estimating epoxy usage?
> The makers seem to think it goes about ten times farther
> than it ever has for me.
In a slighty different material I reroofed with white elastic that
claims to cover 100 square feet per gal. for a relitively flat 700
square foot roof I used about 38 gallons. never had paint streach as
far as the can said it would either. do you get headaches when you
use epoxie? and with any reason does the sweat pour off your forhead
and onto your glasses and your nose just beg to be itched? or am I
unique?
Jeff
claims to cover 100 square feet per gal. for a relitively flat 700
square foot roof I used about 38 gallons. never had paint streach as
far as the can said it would either. do you get headaches when you
use epoxie? and with any reason does the sweat pour off your forhead
and onto your glasses and your nose just beg to be itched? or am I
unique?
Jeff
--- Inbolger@egroups.com, Mark Albanese <marka@o...> wrote:
> David, Chuck, et al:
>
> Here's what System Three says:
>
> Coating Wood: 250 sq. ft./gal first coat 400 sq. ft./ gal
subsequent coats
>
>
> Fiberglassing: 4 oz. cloth 150 300
> 6 oz. 130 250
> 10 oz. 100 170
>
> The Titan 760 brand I've used mostly is close:
>
> Wood Saturation: 40 sq. ft./ pint ( 320 sq. ft./gallon)
> Single layer 6 oz. glass ( no top coat ) 15 sq. ft./pint (
> 120 sq. ft./ gal )
>
> I think this is a bad joke. In the rackets they might call it,
"Bait
and Switch."
> I couldn't find estimating info at raka.com. What does Larry say?
>
> Mark
>
>
> David Ryan wrote:
> >
> > Mark and List --
> >
> > I was sure their "estimates" were some sort of scam they had with
UPS
> > to get us to spend more on shipping by ordering in two (or three)
> > batches.
> >
> > However, now that I've gone through a few gallons of the stuff,
the
> > "estimates" are getting too close to be called estimates anymore.
> > Larry at Raka was pretty much dead on with what it took to
laminate
> > the scooner.
> >
> > I think the figures you're reading are for people who know what
> > they're doing. Unfortunately that takes time and money. Watching
$10
> > worth of 'poxy gel before you can get it on the boat is a hard
lesson
> > (but a pretty funny one if it catches on fire,) but there's no
> > shortcut to expertise.
> >
> > -D
> >
> > >Does anyone have a good formula for estimating epoxy usage?
> > >The makers seem to think it goes about ten times farther
> > >than it ever has for me.
> >
> > CRUMBLING EMPIRE PRODUCTIONS
> > 134 W.26th St. 12th Floor
> > New York, NY 10001
> > (212) 247-0296
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing
> > - stay on topic
> > - use punctuation
> > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> > - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" po
David, Chuck, et al:
Here's what System Three says:
Coating Wood: 250 sq. ft./gal first coat 400 sq. ft./ gal subsequent coats
Fiberglassing: 4 oz. cloth 150 300
6 oz. 130 250
10 oz. 100 170
The Titan 760 brand I've used mostly is close:
Wood Saturation: 40 sq. ft./ pint ( 320 sq. ft./gallon)
Single layer 6 oz. glass ( no top coat ) 15 sq. ft./pint (
120 sq. ft./ gal )
I think this is a bad joke. In the rackets they might call it, "Bait and Switch."
I couldn't find estimating info at raka.com. What does Larry say?
Mark
David Ryan wrote:
Here's what System Three says:
Coating Wood: 250 sq. ft./gal first coat 400 sq. ft./ gal subsequent coats
Fiberglassing: 4 oz. cloth 150 300
6 oz. 130 250
10 oz. 100 170
The Titan 760 brand I've used mostly is close:
Wood Saturation: 40 sq. ft./ pint ( 320 sq. ft./gallon)
Single layer 6 oz. glass ( no top coat ) 15 sq. ft./pint (
120 sq. ft./ gal )
I think this is a bad joke. In the rackets they might call it, "Bait and Switch."
I couldn't find estimating info at raka.com. What does Larry say?
Mark
David Ryan wrote:
>
> Mark and List --
>
> I was sure their "estimates" were some sort of scam they had with UPS
> to get us to spend more on shipping by ordering in two (or three)
> batches.
>
> However, now that I've gone through a few gallons of the stuff, the
> "estimates" are getting too close to be called estimates anymore.
> Larry at Raka was pretty much dead on with what it took to laminate
> the scooner.
>
> I think the figures you're reading are for people who know what
> they're doing. Unfortunately that takes time and money. Watching $10
> worth of 'poxy gel before you can get it on the boat is a hard lesson
> (but a pretty funny one if it catches on fire,) but there's no
> shortcut to expertise.
>
> -D
>
> >Does anyone have a good formula for estimating epoxy usage?
> >The makers seem to think it goes about ten times farther
> >than it ever has for me.
>
> CRUMBLING EMPIRE PRODUCTIONS
> 134 W.26th St. 12th Floor
> New York, NY 10001
> (212) 247-0296
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing
> - stay on topic
> - use punctuation
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
>Mark:
> Does anyone have a good formula for estimating epoxy usage?
> The makers seem to think it goes about ten times farther
> than it ever has for me.
>
> Mark
>
For my current project (Jim Michalak's Caprice) I started out with a six
gallon kit from Raka. When there were two gallons left, I ordered six more.
I am now on my third six gallon batch, and I think I can stretch it to the
end. I had no idea it would take so much resin.
Chuck
Mark and List --
I was sure their "estimates" were some sort of scam they had with UPS
to get us to spend more on shipping by ordering in two (or three)
batches.
However, now that I've gone through a few gallons of the stuff, the
"estimates" are getting too close to be called estimates anymore.
Larry at Raka was pretty much dead on with what it took to laminate
the scooner.
I think the figures you're reading are for people who know what
they're doing. Unfortunately that takes time and money. Watching $10
worth of 'poxy gel before you can get it on the boat is a hard lesson
(but a pretty funny one if it catches on fire,) but there's no
shortcut to expertise.
-D
134 W.26th St. 12th Floor
New York, NY 10001
(212) 247-0296
I was sure their "estimates" were some sort of scam they had with UPS
to get us to spend more on shipping by ordering in two (or three)
batches.
However, now that I've gone through a few gallons of the stuff, the
"estimates" are getting too close to be called estimates anymore.
Larry at Raka was pretty much dead on with what it took to laminate
the scooner.
I think the figures you're reading are for people who know what
they're doing. Unfortunately that takes time and money. Watching $10
worth of 'poxy gel before you can get it on the boat is a hard lesson
(but a pretty funny one if it catches on fire,) but there's no
shortcut to expertise.
-D
>Does anyone have a good formula for estimating epoxy usage?CRUMBLING EMPIRE PRODUCTIONS
>The makers seem to think it goes about ten times farther
>than it ever has for me.
134 W.26th St. 12th Floor
New York, NY 10001
(212) 247-0296
Does anyone have a good formula for estimating epoxy usage?
The makers seem to think it goes about ten times farther
than it ever has for me.
Mark
Tom Etherington wrote:
The makers seem to think it goes about ten times farther
than it ever has for me.
Mark
Tom Etherington wrote:
>
> Giuseppe
>
> I glassed my chines with overlapping 4oz tape (2 layers) precisely
> because the chine strip looked awfully thin. I don't know whether I
> actually need the extra strength, but I thought I'd rather have it
> and not need it than need it and not have it. I put 2" wide tape on
> the bottom of the bulkheads between the cabin and each free flooding
> compartment on the premise that they can't be too water tight.
>
> Tom Etherington
>
> --- Inbolger@egroups.com, "Giuseppe Bianco" <giuseppe.bianco@a...>
> wrote:
> Do I really need to FG tape
> > the chines outside? After all, I'll completely cover the Micro with
> 5
> > oz FG cloth in epoxy, overlapped at the chine, so I don't see the
> > need for one more layer of FG there.
> > I'm also thinking not to tape the bulkheads (inside) to the bottom
> > and to the sides. I've a 3 cm wide gluing surface there which I
> plan
> > to back up with epoxy putty fillets.
> > Any thoughts? Thanks, and best, Pippo
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing
> - stay on topic
> - use punctuation
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.