Re: [bolger] Re: paint for epoxy

System Three has a paint system for their epoxy, but it's more expensive
than the epoxy itself. I think I've settled on Valspar Duramax Gloss Enamel
for my Light Schooner. It's great paint and has no alkyds that can react
with the epoxy.
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Human beings can always be counted upon to assert, with vigor, their
God-given right to be stupid.
-Dean Koontz
----- Original Message -----
From: <pmcrannell@...>
To: <bolger@egroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 12:01 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: paint for epoxy


> Richard,
>
> I can't remember what kind of boat you're going to build. If it's
> a pretty serious investment in time, by all means take great care
> with the finish. If it's a simple boat, I wouldn't spend much time
> finishing her. Be sure to spend most of your time sanding, not
> painting.
>
> I've had good luck with all the standard yacht enamels on boats
> finished with epoxy or polyester. Also the single-part polyurethanes,
> such as Interlux Brightsides, have performed beautifully. They work
> well on plain wood, as well.
>
> A number of years ago, I helped a friend paint his Catalina 27
> with Awlgrip 2-part polyurethane. What a pain! It looked great when
> we finished, but I think a single-part paint would have worked jus as
> well. We ended up with a good, 2' paint job. It looked sprayed from
> that distance, or farther. Closer, we could pick out some brush marks
> and dull spots. Four coats of primer and 2 of finish did the trick.
>
> I think the key to painting epoxy is to wash the hull with a good
> detergent, to get rid of any amine blush. Then start sanding it,
> starting with 80-grit, moving to 100, 120, then finishing in the
> upper 100's. Then get the recommended primer for the finish paint.
> Wipe the whole hull down with acetone, and change paper towels often.
> Then put the primer on. Sanding the first coat almost all the way
> off. Put a second coat of primer on, then sand again. NOW you're
> ready for the final coat. I've never had any trouble painting epoxy
> or polyester. All the paint types have stuck just fine, and held up
> well.
>
> I built a tortured plywood kayak for a friend about 8 years ago.
> We glassed the hull with epoxy resin, and painted her with a single-
> part polyurethane, with the appropriate primer. This paint job stayed
> on through years of being dragged across launch ramps, sand, and a
> few rocky beaches, and thrown up on countless roof racks. It was
> stored outside until a gutter loaded with wet dirt, acorns, and a
> surprising number of sprouting trees fell off a house and crushed
> her. The hull was scraped up, but no worse than a gelcoated boat.
>
> I'd go for a better paint job on a Micro, but use latex on a skiff.
>
> Take care,
> Pete Reynolds
>
>
> --- Inbolger@egroups.com, "Richard Spelling" <richard@s...> wrote:
> > Not to start a new thread, I know 100% acrylic will stick to epoxy.
> I even have 6 gallons that I picked up at a garage sale.. But it's
> grey, and I want RED!
> >
> > Anyway, for my new boat I'm thinking I should splurg and go with
> one of the expensive boat paints.
> >
> > There was a thread here awhile back where someone mentioned
> awlgrip, or maybe interlux, and a special primer for epoxy? One of
> these manufacturers even has a "epoxy system" for painting epoxy.
> Anyone remember who that was?
> >
> > anyone? anyone? anyone?
> >
> > Richard Spelling,http://www.spellingbusiness.com/boats
> > From the muddy waters of Oklahoma
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing
> - stay on topic
> - use punctuation
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
>
--- Inbolger@egroups.com, "Vance Cowan" <vcgraphics@t...>
wrote:
> Oops, sorry, this link used to work but is refusing now.
> Vance

Sloppy pasting; this is correct
Vance

http://home.att.net/~DaveCarnell/articles.html
Further thoughts on paint: there's a difference between merely dry
paint and fully cured, hardened paint. I painted my first boat (a
Windsprint) with oil-based porch paint, and in the month after
application, if I dragged it over anything rough, the paint would
tear off in long stripes or sheets. But after a full winter and
spring outside, upsidedown in the yard, it really got tough, and over
the same abrasive surfaces would only get nicks and thin scratches.

Ditto for my Gypsy this summer. I was in a terrible hurry to finish
her. Painted her in the two or three days just prior to launch, with
the last coat going on as the boat was cartopped ready for our
vacation. Bad move -- it dried but never really cured. Also, the week
of our vacation ranged between humid and rainy. The paint came off
wholesale from the bottom as it got dragged over sand flats. It
blistered wherever rainwater collected inside. Back home, I sanded
and painted all over -- and with several good dry weeks in the sun,
the same paint seems much harder. (Sadly, being a landlocked mountain
dweller, I haven't had the chance to drag her back over the sand
flats again and out into the sea, but that'll be the big test.)

Am I just imagining this? Maybe. But to be on the safe side -- give
it a l-o-n-g time to dry and bake.

All best,
Garth
Oops, sorry, this link used to work but is refusing now.
Vance

--- Inbolger@egroups.com, "Vance Cowan" <vcgraphics@t...>
wrote:

..I would read what Dave
> Carnell has to say at
>
>http://home.att.net/~DaveCarnell/articles.
--- Inbolger@egroups.com, "David Jost" <djost@m...> wrote:
> Dear group,
> I painted my Diablo with acrylic latex primer and then a coat of
> Acrylic latex gloss paint (white). So far it has survived 5 years
of
> being stored outside in New Englands weather extremes with
no signs of
> paint degradation. I highly recommend this method and am
planning on
> doing the same with Micro.
<cut>

I'm just an observer, no hands on experience, but if I had
questions about painting a Bolger boat I would read what Dave
Carnell has to say at

http://home.att.net/~DaveCarnell/articles.

This reinforces David's views and then some.

Vance
Dear group,
I painted my Diablo with acrylic latex primer and then a coat of
Acrylic latex gloss paint (white). So far it has survived 5 years of
being stored outside in New Englands weather extremes with no signs of
paint degradation. I highly recommend this method and am planning on
doing the same with Micro.
The biggest difference between cheap paint and expensive paint
seems to be the flowability and ease of application. I have used
Petit's gloss enamel on a number of fiberglass boats and have been very
satisfied with the results. Not so with Sears Acrylic trim paint.
Stay away from it. It looks terrible.
Richard,

I can't remember what kind of boat you're going to build. If it's
a pretty serious investment in time, by all means take great care
with the finish. If it's a simple boat, I wouldn't spend much time
finishing her. Be sure to spend most of your time sanding, not
painting.

I've had good luck with all the standard yacht enamels on boats
finished with epoxy or polyester. Also the single-part polyurethanes,
such as Interlux Brightsides, have performed beautifully. They work
well on plain wood, as well.

A number of years ago, I helped a friend paint his Catalina 27
with Awlgrip 2-part polyurethane. What a pain! It looked great when
we finished, but I think a single-part paint would have worked jus as
well. We ended up with a good, 2' paint job. It looked sprayed from
that distance, or farther. Closer, we could pick out some brush marks
and dull spots. Four coats of primer and 2 of finish did the trick.

I think the key to painting epoxy is to wash the hull with a good
detergent, to get rid of any amine blush. Then start sanding it,
starting with 80-grit, moving to 100, 120, then finishing in the
upper 100's. Then get the recommended primer for the finish paint.
Wipe the whole hull down with acetone, and change paper towels often.
Then put the primer on. Sanding the first coat almost all the way
off. Put a second coat of primer on, then sand again. NOW you're
ready for the final coat. I've never had any trouble painting epoxy
or polyester. All the paint types have stuck just fine, and held up
well.

I built a tortured plywood kayak for a friend about 8 years ago.
We glassed the hull with epoxy resin, and painted her with a single-
part polyurethane, with the appropriate primer. This paint job stayed
on through years of being dragged across launch ramps, sand, and a
few rocky beaches, and thrown up on countless roof racks. It was
stored outside until a gutter loaded with wet dirt, acorns, and a
surprising number of sprouting trees fell off a house and crushed
her. The hull was scraped up, but no worse than a gelcoated boat.

I'd go for a better paint job on a Micro, but use latex on a skiff.

Take care,
Pete Reynolds


--- Inbolger@egroups.com, "Richard Spelling" <richard@s...> wrote:
> Not to start a new thread, I know 100% acrylic will stick to epoxy.
I even have 6 gallons that I picked up at a garage sale.. But it's
grey, and I want RED!
>
> Anyway, for my new boat I'm thinking I should splurg and go with
one of the expensive boat paints.
>
> There was a thread here awhile back where someone mentioned
awlgrip, or maybe interlux, and a special primer for epoxy? One of
these manufacturers even has a "epoxy system" for painting epoxy.
Anyone remember who that was?
>
> anyone? anyone? anyone?
>
> Richard Spelling,http://www.spellingbusiness.com/boats
> From the muddy waters of Oklahoma
The Interlux system is very good (and the only high-end marine paint I have
used), but you must adhere to the manufacturer's instructions. As I recall,
it came with an audio cassette of instructions back in 1995.

From experience: Do not apply the 2-part topcoat outdoors if there is any
chance of moisture (dew, for instance) getting on it. It will cure "dull"
(worse than flat) and you will have re-sand the entire surface and recoat.
I painted a 30-foot fiberglass sailboat with it - got carried away sanding
and started the topcoat about 2 PM. The dew fell about 5:30, and that's
when I got the experience.

It's a great paint once cured, but not very "repairable". My later high-end
projects (boats for sale or deemed worth keeping in salable condition) were
done with Interlux Brightsides one-part polyurethane (about 80 percent of
the properties for 40-50 percent of the cost and effort). Good enough for
me.


Don Hodges
My story reads almost like this one, but it was Interlux Brightside
Primer over System Three Epoxy that never dried. After lots of
sanding (I second the root canal analogy), Interlux 404/414 worked
fine. Also used Interlux Brightside as a top coat.

Ralph

--- Inbolger@egroups.com, "Mike Vacanti" <mike_vacanti@h...> wrote:
> I would second the recommendation for Interlux 404/414 epoxy primer.
> I
> tried twice to paint over West Sysytems epoxy with West Marine
store
> brand oil base enamel primer. The primer never dried properly even
> after several weeks of midsummer weather. I ended up sanding all
the
> oil base primer off (twice, as much fun as do it youself root
canal)
> and applied a coat of the Interlux 404/414. It dried nice and hard
> while still being easy to sand. For the topcoat I used Interlux
> Brightside 1 part polyurethane enamel. It also dried nice and hard
> and
> has an attractive glossy finish. Neither of these paints is
> particularly inexpensive.
>
> Mike
I called Interlux on their 800 number and talked to a tech  guy that told me what type of primer to use...the number was on a brochure that I picked up in West Marine..... I will see if I can find it some where in my " Boat Library"
Chris Flynn
Flynn's Folly
   _/)
~~~~~~~~~~
----- Original Message -----
Sent:Tuesday, October 03, 2000 1:43 PM
Subject:Re: [bolger] paint for epoxy

thier webpage shows several primers, but none with the word "epoxy" in the name...
 
Richard Spelling,http://www.spellingbusiness.com/boats
From the muddy waters of Oklahoma
----- Original Message -----
From:chris
Sent:Tuesday, October 03, 2000 12:43 PM
Subject:Re: [bolger] paint for epoxy

Interlux Has an Epoxy  primer for  covering Epoxy before putting the finish coat on.... I used it on My Bobcat .... It is expensive and does fill small indentations ... also sands great before putting on a finish coat.....I got it at West Marine... but I am sure that any Marine store that carries Interlux  could get it...
Chris Flynn
  Flynn's Folly
        _/)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
----- Original Message -----
Sent:Tuesday, October 03, 2000 12:15 PM
Subject:[bolger] paint for epoxy

Not to start a new thread, I know 100% acrylic will stick to epoxy. I even have 6 gallons that I picked up at a garage sale.. But it's grey, and I want RED!
 
Anyway, for my new boat I'm thinking I should splurg and go with one of the expensive boat paints.
 
There was a thread here awhile back where someone mentioned awlgrip, or maybe interlux, and a special primer for epoxy? One of these manufacturers even has a "epoxy system" for painting epoxy. Anyone remember who that was?
 
anyone? anyone? anyone?
 
Richard Spelling,http://www.spellingbusiness.com/boats
From the muddy waters of Oklahoma

Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing
- stay on topic
- use punctuation
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
- add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.



Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing
- stay on topic
- use punctuation
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
- add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.


Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing
- stay on topic
- use punctuation
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
- add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.

I would second the recommendation for Interlux 404/414 epoxy primer.
I
tried twice to paint over West Sysytems epoxy with West Marine store
brand oil base enamel primer. The primer never dried properly even
after several weeks of midsummer weather. I ended up sanding all the
oil base primer off (twice, as much fun as do it youself root canal)
and applied a coat of the Interlux 404/414. It dried nice and hard
while still being easy to sand. For the topcoat I used Interlux
Brightside 1 part polyurethane enamel. It also dried nice and hard
and
has an attractive glossy finish. Neither of these paints is
particularly inexpensive.

Mike

--- Inbolger@egroups.com, "Catboater " <catboater@h...> wrote:
>
> Having worked in a West Marine store for a number of years I would
> suggest that a primer be applied over the epoxy before any type of
> finish is applied. I have had very good sucess with Interlux
404/414
> which is a bullet proof primer that will take any sort of finish. I
> have also used Bullseye 1-2-3 latex primer which has been
recommended
> by Gougeon Brothers who produce W.E.S.T. Epoxy. As for the paint
> itself the Interlux two part epoxy paints are very durable but
> require
> some patience when applying.
>
>
> Dave Thibodeau
> > From the muddy waters of Oklahoma
I've used a two part polyurethane, and the company also provided its own primer for use over epoxy.  Unless you really want to spend some effort and cash, though, I wouldn't go with the two part poly.  It is extremely toxic, and fussy to apply, although you can get special mixes for brushing rather than spraying (still fussy -- I rolled it on and smoothed it out with a brush, but you have to smooth it within seconds of rolling it on).
 
Alternatives are one part polyurethanes or System Three's two part water-based polyurethane, neither of which I've used.
 
I have had good results with an inexpensive marine/industrial enamel, sold, I think, by CIL/Glidden.  It looks good, wears reasonably well, and isn't hard to apply or touch up.  We use this on a dinghy that takes a fair amount of grounding (rocking?), so the touch up is important.
 
Jamie Orr
 
 
 
 -----Original Message-----
From:Richard Spelling [mailto:richard@...]
Sent:Tuesday, October 03, 2000 10:16 AM
To:bolger@egroups.com
Subject:[bolger] paint for epoxy

Not to start a new thread, I know 100% acrylic will stick to epoxy. I even have 6 gallons that I picked up at a garage sale.. But it's grey, and I want RED!
 
Anyway, for my new boat I'm thinking I should splurg and go with one of the expensive boat paints.
 
There was a thread here awhile back where someone mentioned awlgrip, or maybe interlux, and a special primer for epoxy? One of these manufacturers even has a "epoxy system" for painting epoxy. Anyone remember who that was?
 
anyone? anyone? anyone?
 
Richard Spelling,http://www.spellingbusiness.com/boats
From the muddy waters of Oklahoma

Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing
- stay on topic
- use punctuation
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
- add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.

Having worked in a West Marine store for a number of years I would
suggest that a primer be applied over the epoxy before any type of
finish is applied. I have had very good sucess with Interlux 404/414
which is a bullet proof primer that will take any sort of finish. I
have also used Bullseye 1-2-3 latex primer which has been recommended
by Gougeon Brothers who produce W.E.S.T. Epoxy. As for the paint
itself the Interlux two part epoxy paints are very durable but
require
some patience when applying.


Dave Thibodeau
--- Inbolger@egroups.com, "Richard Spelling" <richard@s...> wrote:
> Not to start a new thread, I know 100% acrylic will stick to epoxy.
I even have 6 gallons that I picked up at a garage sale.. But it's
grey, and I want RED!
>
> Anyway, for my new boat I'm thinking I should splurg and go with
one
of the expensive boat paints.
>
> There was a thread here awhile back where someone mentioned
awlgrip,
or maybe interlux, and a special primer for epoxy? One of these
manufacturers even has a "epoxy system" for painting epoxy. Anyone
remember who that was?
>
> anyone? anyone? anyone?
>
> Richard Spelling,http://www.spellingbusiness.com/boats
> From the muddy waters of Oklahoma
thier webpage shows several primers, but none with the word "epoxy" in the name...
 
Richard Spelling,http://www.spellingbusiness.com/boats
From the muddy waters of Oklahoma
----- Original Message -----
From:chris
Sent:Tuesday, October 03, 2000 12:43 PM
Subject:Re: [bolger] paint for epoxy

Interlux Has an Epoxy  primer for  covering Epoxy before putting the finish coat on.... I used it on My Bobcat .... It is expensive and does fill small indentations ... also sands great before putting on a finish coat.....I got it at West Marine... but I am sure that any Marine store that carries Interlux  could get it...
Chris Flynn
  Flynn's Folly
        _/)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
----- Original Message -----
Sent:Tuesday, October 03, 2000 12:15 PM
Subject:[bolger] paint for epoxy

Not to start a new thread, I know 100% acrylic will stick to epoxy. I even have 6 gallons that I picked up at a garage sale.. But it's grey, and I want RED!
 
Anyway, for my new boat I'm thinking I should splurg and go with one of the expensive boat paints.
 
There was a thread here awhile back where someone mentioned awlgrip, or maybe interlux, and a special primer for epoxy? One of these manufacturers even has a "epoxy system" for painting epoxy. Anyone remember who that was?
 
anyone? anyone? anyone?
 
Richard Spelling,http://www.spellingbusiness.com/boats
From the muddy waters of Oklahoma

Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing
- stay on topic
- use punctuation
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
- add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.



Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing
- stay on topic
- use punctuation
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
- add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.

The light scooner Margaret Ellen is painted with Benjimin Moore poach
paint (redwood, white, and bamboo beige) the kind that needs paint
thinner, not water.

This was held up really nicely over polyester on the teal lil'winnie.
So far, so good over the epoxy on the LSME.





Not to start a new thread, I know 100% acrylic will stick to epoxy. I
even have 6 gallons that I picked up at a garage sale.. But it's
grey, and I want RED!

Anyway, for my new boat I'm thinking I should splurg and go with one
of the expensive boat paints.

There was a thread here awhile back where someone mentioned awlgrip,
or maybe interlux, and a special primer for epoxy? One of these
manufacturers even has a "epoxy system" for painting epoxy. Anyone
remember who that was?

anyone? anyone? anyone?

Richard Spelling,
<http://www.spellingbusiness.com/boats>http://www.spellingbusiness.com
/boats
From the muddy waters of Oklahoma


Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing
- stay on topic
- use punctuation
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
- add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.


CRUMBLING EMPIRE PRODUCTIONS
134 W.26th St. 12th Floor
New York, NY 10001
(212) 243-1636
Interlux Has an Epoxy  primer for  covering Epoxy before putting the finish coat on.... I used it on My Bobcat .... It is expensive and does fill small indentations ... also sands great before putting on a finish coat.....I got it at West Marine... but I am sure that any Marine store that carries Interlux  could get it...
Chris Flynn
  Flynn's Folly
        _/)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
----- Original Message -----
Sent:Tuesday, October 03, 2000 12:15 PM
Subject:[bolger] paint for epoxy

Not to start a new thread, I know 100% acrylic will stick to epoxy. I even have 6 gallons that I picked up at a garage sale.. But it's grey, and I want RED!
 
Anyway, for my new boat I'm thinking I should splurg and go with one of the expensive boat paints.
 
There was a thread here awhile back where someone mentioned awlgrip, or maybe interlux, and a special primer for epoxy? One of these manufacturers even has a "epoxy system" for painting epoxy. Anyone remember who that was?
 
anyone? anyone? anyone?
 
Richard Spelling,http://www.spellingbusiness.com/boats
From the muddy waters of Oklahoma

Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing
- stay on topic
- use punctuation
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
- add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.

> One of these manufacturers even has a "epoxy system" for painting
epoxy. Anyone remember who that was?

For example:http://www.systemthree.com/

Peter
Not to start a new thread, I know 100% acrylic will stick to epoxy. I even have 6 gallons that I picked up at a garage sale.. But it's grey, and I want RED!
 
Anyway, for my new boat I'm thinking I should splurg and go with one of the expensive boat paints.
 
There was a thread here awhile back where someone mentioned awlgrip, or maybe interlux, and a special primer for epoxy? One of these manufacturers even has a "epoxy system" for painting epoxy. Anyone remember who that was?
 
anyone? anyone? anyone?
 
Richard Spelling,http://www.spellingbusiness.com/boats
From the muddy waters of Oklahoma