[bolger] Re: Luan?
Both Flying Tadpole and our Nymph are made from Luan. Apart from being
bad for the lungs, hardening with age and heavy, it's been very good
stuff indeed. Depends on the source and the batch,:an at the local
hardware shop I ouldn't touch with a bargepole.
Tim & Flying Tadpole
tjfatchen@...
http://www.ace.net.au/schooner
bad for the lungs, hardening with age and heavy, it's been very good
stuff indeed. Depends on the source and the batch,:an at the local
hardware shop I ouldn't touch with a bargepole.
Tim & Flying Tadpole
tjfatchen@...
http://www.ace.net.au/schooner
I use luan, but carefully: I've found interior voids are the problem
with Luan. But not the "knothole" variety of void! The problems I've
had are where they put a butt splice in a new core veneer in the middle
of a sheet, and the two butt edges don't quite meet. This is
disastrous, way worse than a knot-type void for boatbuilding, as it
leaves an oriented weakness sometimes across the whole panel! All that
holds it together are the two very thin outer veneers. Unfortunately I
can't always spot these long interior voids on the panel edges (maybe
they plug just the ends?). I give prospective panels a good bend test
at the lumber yard, looking and listening carefully. Sometimes you can
spot a telltale smooth stripe going across the panel over the void. It
is VERY subtle, so look carefully!!
My Sneakeasy is built of the stuff (but the side panels are beefed up
below the waterline as I didn't entirely trust it), and it came out
very well.
On a couple other boats (fortunately smaller!)I had problems -
fortuitously they were revealed gracefully. A long crack forms (after
some use) over the void, and the outer veneers will start to peel up.
No need to panic, just remove damaged veneer along the crack where
necessary, inject epoxy filler, and glass tape over it. This
retro-repair is a bit of a pain, but not fatal, in my opinion.
Often I just can't spot the void until its in the shop, maybe after the
first cut (sigh). But the luan stuff is wonderfully cheap (and the
good luan IS good!) so I don't mind rejecting the occasional bad piece
to use for less structurally important projects.
The boil test is good, but some glues perfectly acceptable for boats
will fail under boiling. Maybe the dishwasher test is better?
Fritz Funk
My Boat Page (Sneakeasy and other stuff):http://www.alaska.net/~fritzf
/Boats/Boats.htm
with Luan. But not the "knothole" variety of void! The problems I've
had are where they put a butt splice in a new core veneer in the middle
of a sheet, and the two butt edges don't quite meet. This is
disastrous, way worse than a knot-type void for boatbuilding, as it
leaves an oriented weakness sometimes across the whole panel! All that
holds it together are the two very thin outer veneers. Unfortunately I
can't always spot these long interior voids on the panel edges (maybe
they plug just the ends?). I give prospective panels a good bend test
at the lumber yard, looking and listening carefully. Sometimes you can
spot a telltale smooth stripe going across the panel over the void. It
is VERY subtle, so look carefully!!
My Sneakeasy is built of the stuff (but the side panels are beefed up
below the waterline as I didn't entirely trust it), and it came out
very well.
On a couple other boats (fortunately smaller!)I had problems -
fortuitously they were revealed gracefully. A long crack forms (after
some use) over the void, and the outer veneers will start to peel up.
No need to panic, just remove damaged veneer along the crack where
necessary, inject epoxy filler, and glass tape over it. This
retro-repair is a bit of a pain, but not fatal, in my opinion.
Often I just can't spot the void until its in the shop, maybe after the
first cut (sigh). But the luan stuff is wonderfully cheap (and the
good luan IS good!) so I don't mind rejecting the occasional bad piece
to use for less structurally important projects.
The boil test is good, but some glues perfectly acceptable for boats
will fail under boiling. Maybe the dishwasher test is better?
Fritz Funk
My Boat Page (Sneakeasy and other stuff):http://www.alaska.net/~fritzf
/Boats/Boats.htm
Luan from one HD in Tulsa passed the boil test with flying colors, luan
from the other HD delaminated just from transporting it to the house.
Bottom line, test.... I guess you could buy a sheet, and return it if it failed the boil test... <grin>
ernie@... wrote:
I too am worried about Home Depot luan ply. I bought a sheet 5 years
back to try it out, just by leaving it outside (no dishwasher extreems)
it delaminated and crumbled. Since I've een real leery of the stuff,
especially from HD.
I'd love to be proved wrong on this, all I have is the Depot for wood.
amct-@... wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=775
> In a message dated 11/9/99 10:30:47 PM !!!First Boot!!!,
manta@...
> writes:
>
> << recommended for vinyl floors and it should have no voids..
most of
the
> time it is around 10 to 12 dollars a sheet if you pay less
than that
> for luan it is not marine glued and it will have voids....(
that
type
> is used in the furniture industry for backs and drawer bottoms...the
> cheeper stuff) >>
>
> Hi,
> You have me worried. I am using Luan to build my gypsy.
I bought it
at the
> local Home Depot for about $9.99 per sheet. It sat on my living
room
floor
> for two weeks getting stepped on daily by various people weighing
between 50
> to 150 lbs. I finally moved it when I got tired of hearing
it creak
under
> the weight every time I stepped on it (I weigh 130 lbs., don't tell
anyone I
> told you that LOL). Should I throw the stuff out and start
again? I
always
> assumed Plywood (any kind) was built to withstand abuse. As
you can
see, I'm
> completely clueless about what I'm doing, which is why I joined this
group.
> Please help!
> Andi
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I too am worried about Home Depot luan ply. I bought a sheet 5 years
back to try it out, just by leaving it outside (no dishwasher extreems)
it delaminated and crumbled. Since I've een real leery of the stuff,
especially from HD.
I'd love to be proved wrong on this, all I have is the Depot for wood.
amct-@...wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=775
back to try it out, just by leaving it outside (no dishwasher extreems)
it delaminated and crumbled. Since I've een real leery of the stuff,
especially from HD.
I'd love to be proved wrong on this, all I have is the Depot for wood.
amct-@...wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=775
> In a message dated 11/9/99 10:30:47 PM !!!First Boot!!!,manta@...
> writes:the
>
> << recommended for vinyl floors and it should have no voids.. most of
> time it is around 10 to 12 dollars a sheet if you pay less than thattype
> for luan it is not marine glued and it will have voids....( that
> is used in the furniture industry for backs and drawer bottoms...theat the
> cheeper stuff) >>
>
> Hi,
> You have me worried. I am using Luan to build my gypsy. I bought it
> local Home Depot for about $9.99 per sheet. It sat on my living roomfloor
> for two weeks getting stepped on daily by various people weighingbetween 50
> to 150 lbs. I finally moved it when I got tired of hearing it creakunder
> the weight every time I stepped on it (I weigh 130 lbs., don't tellanyone I
> told you that LOL). Should I throw the stuff out and start again? Ialways
> assumed Plywood (any kind) was built to withstand abuse. As you cansee, I'm
> completely clueless about what I'm doing, which is why I joined thisgroup.
> Please help!
> Andi
amct-@...wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=775
what type of luan that you got... at 9.99 a sheet( almost in the 10-12
dollar range) you may have the underlayment type.... I don't know too
much about home depot prices or products since there are none in my
area... maybe they are better priced than the local lumber yard that I
buy underlayment ( luan) from...the best way to learn about different
plywood types .. look up the APA ( American Plywood Associotion) web
site... You might try thishttp://www.apawood.org/also I think
there is a good artical on Plywood in Craig O'Donalds site..
http://www.friend.ly.net/user-homepages/d/dadadata/boats.htmlThe
Cheap Pages... I think the questions about plywood are at
http://www.cyber-dyne.com/~jkohnen/plyfaq.html
that should be a good start anyway............. Chris
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=775
> In a message dated 11/9/99 10:30:47 PM !!!First Boot!!!,manta@...
> writes:the
>
> << recommended for vinyl floors and it should have no voids.. most of
> time it is around 10 to 12 dollars a sheet if you pay less than thattype
> for luan it is not marine glued and it will have voids....( that
> is used in the furniture industry for backs and drawer bottoms...theat the
> cheeper stuff) >>
>
> Hi,
> You have me worried. I am using Luan to build my gypsy. I bought it
> local Home Depot for about $9.99 per sheet. It sat on my living roomfloor
> for two weeks getting stepped on daily by various people weighingbetween 50
> to 150 lbs. I finally moved it when I got tired of hearing it creakunder
> the weight every time I stepped on it (I weigh 130 lbs., don't tellanyone I
> told you that LOL). Should I throw the stuff out and start again? Ialways
> assumed Plywood (any kind) was built to withstand abuse. As you cansee, I'm
> completely clueless about what I'm doing, which is why I joined thisgroup.
> Please help!Before you get all worked up there Andi... Call Home Depot and ask them
> Andi
what type of luan that you got... at 9.99 a sheet( almost in the 10-12
dollar range) you may have the underlayment type.... I don't know too
much about home depot prices or products since there are none in my
area... maybe they are better priced than the local lumber yard that I
buy underlayment ( luan) from...the best way to learn about different
plywood types .. look up the APA ( American Plywood Associotion) web
site... You might try thishttp://www.apawood.org/also I think
there is a good artical on Plywood in Craig O'Donalds site..
http://www.friend.ly.net/user-homepages/d/dadadata/boats.htmlThe
Cheap Pages... I think the questions about plywood are at
http://www.cyber-dyne.com/~jkohnen/plyfaq.html
that should be a good start anyway............. Chris
Boiling a piece will tell you a lot about it. Even if it's not completely
waterproof, it won;t come apart anytime soon - esp. if you store it dry.
Gregg
At 06:25 PM 11/9/1999 EST, you wrote:
waterproof, it won;t come apart anytime soon - esp. if you store it dry.
Gregg
At 06:25 PM 11/9/1999 EST, you wrote:
>In a message dated 11/9/99 10:30:47 PM !!!First Boot!!!,manta@...I'm
>writes:
>
><< recommended for vinyl floors and it should have no voids.. most of the
> time it is around 10 to 12 dollars a sheet if you pay less than that
> for luan it is not marine glued and it will have voids....( that type
> is used in the furniture industry for backs and drawer bottoms...the
> cheeper stuff) >>
>
>Hi,
>You have me worried. I am using Luan to build my gypsy. I bought it at the
>local Home Depot for about $9.99 per sheet. It sat on my living room floor
>for two weeks getting stepped on daily by various people weighing between 50
>to 150 lbs. I finally moved it when I got tired of hearing it creak under
>the weight every time I stepped on it (I weigh 130 lbs., don't tell anyone I
>told you that LOL). Should I throw the stuff out and start again? I always
>assumed Plywood (any kind) was built to withstand abuse. As you can see,
>completely clueless about what I'm doing, which is why I joined this group.
>Please help!
>Andi
>
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>
>
David,
I have built several small boats with 1/4" luan plywood--lumberyard
underlayment stuff, about $10-12 a sheet. The stuff has always been
satisfactory under 'glass and epoxy. I always examine and hand-select before
I buy, of course (I have seen stuff I wouldn't use for kindling). I would
hesitate to use such stuff without an abrasion-resistant coating, as the
outer plies are very thin....
david
david@...wrote:
I have built several small boats with 1/4" luan plywood--lumberyard
underlayment stuff, about $10-12 a sheet. The stuff has always been
satisfactory under 'glass and epoxy. I always examine and hand-select before
I buy, of course (I have seen stuff I wouldn't use for kindling). I would
hesitate to use such stuff without an abrasion-resistant coating, as the
outer plies are very thin....
david
david@...wrote:
> Fellow Bolger Boat Builders --
>
> Payson seems to give Luan his stamp of approval in one of the instant
> boat books, but doesn't actually say he's building boats with it.
>
> Anyone with any real world experience with the stuff? Rants and raves
> appreciated!
>
> Yours in boat building,
>
> David
>
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> -- 20 megs of disk space in your eGroup's Document Vault
> --http://www.egroups.com/docvault/bolger/?m=1
In a message dated 11/9/99 10:30:47 PM !!!First Boot!!!,manta@...
writes:
<< recommended for vinyl floors and it should have no voids.. most of the
time it is around 10 to 12 dollars a sheet if you pay less than that
for luan it is not marine glued and it will have voids....( that type
is used in the furniture industry for backs and drawer bottoms...the
cheeper stuff) >>
Hi,
You have me worried. I am using Luan to build my gypsy. I bought it at the
local Home Depot for about $9.99 per sheet. It sat on my living room floor
for two weeks getting stepped on daily by various people weighing between 50
to 150 lbs. I finally moved it when I got tired of hearing it creak under
the weight every time I stepped on it (I weigh 130 lbs., don't tell anyone I
told you that LOL). Should I throw the stuff out and start again? I always
assumed Plywood (any kind) was built to withstand abuse. As you can see, I'm
completely clueless about what I'm doing, which is why I joined this group.
Please help!
Andi
writes:
<< recommended for vinyl floors and it should have no voids.. most of the
time it is around 10 to 12 dollars a sheet if you pay less than that
for luan it is not marine glued and it will have voids....( that type
is used in the furniture industry for backs and drawer bottoms...the
cheeper stuff) >>
Hi,
You have me worried. I am using Luan to build my gypsy. I bought it at the
local Home Depot for about $9.99 per sheet. It sat on my living room floor
for two weeks getting stepped on daily by various people weighing between 50
to 150 lbs. I finally moved it when I got tired of hearing it creak under
the weight every time I stepped on it (I weigh 130 lbs., don't tell anyone I
told you that LOL). Should I throw the stuff out and start again? I always
assumed Plywood (any kind) was built to withstand abuse. As you can see, I'm
completely clueless about what I'm doing, which is why I joined this group.
Please help!
Andi
>OOPS! I meant BS1088 - the British Standard for marine grade ply - a VERY
>BS5750?
>
>-D
>
exacting standard, too - durable species, even veneer thicknesses, lack of
voids, veneers no thicker than 1/16", waterproof glues, lack of surface
patches, . . .
Bill
>
>
David... In the flooring business ( which I have been in for 26 years)
the are different types of Luan... I don't know which type that
Dynamite is talking about .. but there are some that are guaranteed to
have no voids and be marine grade ( used in the vinyl flooring industry
for underlayment) some of it comes in 4x4 sheets ( which is not luan..
but aspen or birch) but true luan underlayment comes in 4x8 sheets and
can be bought at most any "good" lumber supply..Call a Flooring store
in your area and ask them where they buy their luan underlayment that
is used for vinyl floors...make sure that it is the type used and
recommended for vinyl floors and it should have no voids.. most of the
time it is around 10 to 12 dollars a sheet if you pay less than that
for luan it is not marine glued and it will have voids....( that type
is used in the furniture industry for backs and drawer bottoms...the
cheeper stuff)
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=763
the are different types of Luan... I don't know which type that
Dynamite is talking about .. but there are some that are guaranteed to
have no voids and be marine grade ( used in the vinyl flooring industry
for underlayment) some of it comes in 4x4 sheets ( which is not luan..
but aspen or birch) but true luan underlayment comes in 4x8 sheets and
can be bought at most any "good" lumber supply..Call a Flooring store
in your area and ask them where they buy their luan underlayment that
is used for vinyl floors...make sure that it is the type used and
recommended for vinyl floors and it should have no voids.. most of the
time it is around 10 to 12 dollars a sheet if you pay less than that
for luan it is not marine glued and it will have voids....( that type
is used in the furniture industry for backs and drawer bottoms...the
cheeper stuff)
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=763
> Fellow Bolger Boat Builders --
>
> Payson seems to give Luan his stamp of approval in one of the instant
> boat books, but doesn't actually say he's building boats with it.
>
> Anyone with any real world experience with the stuff? Rants and raves
> appreciated!
>
> Yours in boat building,
>
> David
>
In a message dated 11/9/99 2:19:06 PM Central Standard Time,
david@...writes:
<< Anyone with any real world experience with the stuff? Rants and raves
appreciated! >>
Talk to Scotty! he told me he uses it & we ought to invite him to join up... <
A HREF="http://www.smallboats.com/">Scotts Small Wooden Boat Shop</A> He
builds Payson-Bolger boats...
larry
david@...writes:
<< Anyone with any real world experience with the stuff? Rants and raves
appreciated! >>
Talk to Scotty! he told me he uses it & we ought to invite him to join up... <
A HREF="http://www.smallboats.com/">Scotts Small Wooden Boat Shop</A> He
builds Payson-Bolger boats...
larry
> Seems to come in a variety of qualities, though. The stuff from theFar
> East seems best, even though it is often stamped BS5750, which itdefinitely
> isn't!BS5750?
-D
Hi,
I use the stuff all the time, because it's all I can get locally at a
reasonable price.
Seems to come in a variety of qualities, though. The stuff from the Far
East seems best, even though it is often stamped BS5750, which it definitely
isn't!
The South American stuff is less good - more filler and voids.
You CAN get stuff that's pretty much void free. The downside is that the
outer veneers tend to be very thin and you can sand through them very
easily.
Still, it's stood the test of time in 4 boats I've built over the past 15
years. All are holding up just fine, with no sign of failure.
Like any ply it needs to be maintained with paint etc. Look after it, and
it'll look after you.
It finishes nicely, too, compared to fir.
Bill
--bill.samson@...
Chebacco News can be viewed on:
http://members.xoom.com/billsamson
-----Original Message-----
From:david@...<david@...>
To:bolger@...<bolger@...>
Date: 09 November 1999 20:17
Subject: [bolger] Luan?
I use the stuff all the time, because it's all I can get locally at a
reasonable price.
Seems to come in a variety of qualities, though. The stuff from the Far
East seems best, even though it is often stamped BS5750, which it definitely
isn't!
The South American stuff is less good - more filler and voids.
You CAN get stuff that's pretty much void free. The downside is that the
outer veneers tend to be very thin and you can sand through them very
easily.
Still, it's stood the test of time in 4 boats I've built over the past 15
years. All are holding up just fine, with no sign of failure.
Like any ply it needs to be maintained with paint etc. Look after it, and
it'll look after you.
It finishes nicely, too, compared to fir.
Bill
--bill.samson@...
Chebacco News can be viewed on:
http://members.xoom.com/billsamson
-----Original Message-----
From:david@...<david@...>
To:bolger@...<bolger@...>
Date: 09 November 1999 20:17
Subject: [bolger] Luan?
>Fellow Bolger Boat Builders --
>
>Payson seems to give Luan his stamp of approval in one of the instant
>boat books, but doesn't actually say he's building boats with it.
>
>Anyone with any real world experience with the stuff? Rants and raves
>appreciated!
>
>Yours in boat building,
>
>David
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
>
Fellow Bolger Boat Builders --
Payson seems to give Luan his stamp of approval in one of the instant
boat books, but doesn't actually say he's building boats with it.
Anyone with any real world experience with the stuff? Rants and raves
appreciated!
Yours in boat building,
David
Payson seems to give Luan his stamp of approval in one of the instant
boat books, but doesn't actually say he's building boats with it.
Anyone with any real world experience with the stuff? Rants and raves
appreciated!
Yours in boat building,
David