Re: [bolger] Re: Light Schooner Question #2 (cutting trees for masts)
Thanks for the inspiring words, I recently decided upon the "just build it
and see if it floats" mentality over the past weekend. I'm tired of worrying
over details, and you're probably right... there will be another! My brother
has already told me, if it all goes as planned, the next project is a
powerboat for him. The masts are a done deal. I've already built the
mainmast "bird's eye" style out of a $13 2x10 and am well pleased with the
results. I would recommend this style mast to anyone with a tablesaw as the
cheapest, lightest and easiest to build. It was probably easier than
rounding a solid square stick!
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Human beings can always be counted upon to assert, with vigor, their
God-given right to be stupid.
-Dean Koontz
and see if it floats" mentality over the past weekend. I'm tired of worrying
over details, and you're probably right... there will be another! My brother
has already told me, if it all goes as planned, the next project is a
powerboat for him. The masts are a done deal. I've already built the
mainmast "bird's eye" style out of a $13 2x10 and am well pleased with the
results. I would recommend this style mast to anyone with a tablesaw as the
cheapest, lightest and easiest to build. It was probably easier than
rounding a solid square stick!
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Human beings can always be counted upon to assert, with vigor, their
God-given right to be stupid.
-Dean Koontz
----- Original Message -----
From: David Ryan <david@...>
To: <bolger@egroups.com>
Sent: Friday, October 13, 2000 5:51 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Light Schooner Question #2 (cutting trees for
masts)
> Nominal 2x4, whatever that is today. They keep making them smaller and
smaller.
>
> My masts (especially the mainmast) aren't really round; more halfway
> between round and a rounded square. You can be reasonable sure that
> the size of the mast specified has as much to do with what is easy
> to find as how big it needs to be. If they break, I'll make more. The
> mast-making was one of the best parts of the boat.
>
> Don't let yourself get bogged down in these silly little details.I
> regret everyday I wasted pondering and worrying about this epoxy or
> that epoxy; this filler or that filler; etc. It's a freakin' instant
> boat, it's supposed to be easy. Build the damn thing and go sailing.
> If after you've got her in the water you feel regret about your
> compromises, take that to the next project. (You know you'll be
> building another boat, don't you?)
>
> Between work and no truck, I haven't had the LSME out since her
> maiden voyage (#*&$*#@ trailer boat!)
>
> It's agony. Sailing her is just about a perfect experience,
> compromise, mistakes and all.
>
> YIBB,
>
> David
>
>
> >So are the 2x4s you used actually 2x4s or did you round the masts smaller
> >than the plans call for? Unfortunately, all the good clear timber was
used
> >up frivolously a long time ago. I recently built a bathroom in my house,
and
> >had to install a flush-fit medicine cabinet in an existing wall. When I
cut
> >the wall open, I found that the studs in my 30 year old townhouse are all
> >made from the prettiest old growth, tight vertical grain, clear Douglas
Fir
> >2x4s that you can imagine! Seems a shame to have all of this prime
> >boatbuilding lumber going to waste just to hold up my house! I found a 9
> >foot length of similarly beautiful wood for the gaffs of the Schooner,
and
> >paid $16.65 for it! If; 30 years ago, this lumber had cost even 1/2 that,
my
> >house would never have been built. Anyway, I've decided there's no way
I'm
> >paying $288 for masts, so I'm going to use the crappy No. 2 SPF from Home
> >Depot. How much difference in strength is there going to be if I make 3"
> >masts instead of 3 1/2"?
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
_
> >__
> >Human beings can always be counted upon to assert, with vigor, their
> >God-given right to be stupid.
> > -Dean Koontz
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: David Ryan <david@...>
> >To: <bolger@egroups.com>
> >Sent: Friday, October 13, 2000 12:23 AM
> >Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Light Schooner Question #2 (cutting trees for
> >masts)
> >
> >
> >> The masts on my recently launched light scooner are laminated lumber
> >> yard 2x4s. I took a little time to find "complementary" sticks so I
> >> could put the flaws of one board against a good portion of the other.
> >>
> >> I think their going to be fine, and if they're not, they only cost
> >> about 3 dollars a foot, including epoxy.
> >>
> >> In this day, you've got to take all that "clear lumber" stuff in with
> >> a grain of salt. There just isn't that much clear lumber, and what
> >> there is'll cost you plenty. I'm sure if there was a new addition of
> >> of "Instant Boats" written today, you'd find plenty of advice on how
> >> to use all this shitty lumber.
> >>
> >> I was lucky enough to find a clear 2x10 28 feet long that gave me my
> >> chine logs and sheer clamps. Right on top of the unit.
> >>
> >> -D
> >>
> >> >Well, it's a shame Maryland is so far from Oregon! I finally found a
mill
> >> >able to supply me with 2"x8"x16' clear rough-cut Doug Fir. They can
rip
> >this
> >> >down to the correct dimensions. Unfortunately, they want $9.00 a
linear
> >> >foot. That equates to $288.00 total! Arrrggghh!!! I can use aluminum
flag
> >> >poles; ala Gregg Carlson, for $390.00, but the object is to keep
costs to
> >a
> >> >minimum. I think I'm going to resort to laminating the masts from
> >standard
> >> >lumberyard SPF stock, which is probably White Pine. I already used it
for
> >> >the booms, and it's very lightweight. The piece of clear Doug Fir
that I
> >> >managed to find for the gaffs (strength is more of a factor here) is
> >> >considerably heavier. I'm thinking of using two 2x4s and a single
1x4,
> >> >making the finished dimensions 3 1/2" x 3 3/4" which can be planed
down
> >to 3
> >> >1/2 x 3 1/2. Of course, the quality of the SPF stock is absolutely
> >> >repugnant, but at least it's cheap. Hmmm... I wonder how much the
freight
> >> >charges from Oregon would be???
> >> >
> >> >Stephen Lane
> >> >Baltimore, Maryland
> >>
>
>>__________________________________________________________________________
_
> >_
> >> >__
> >> >Human beings can always be counted upon to assert, with vigor, their
> >> >God-given right to be stupid.
> >> > -Dean
Koontz
> >> >----- Original Message -----
> >> >From: <pateson@...>
> >> >To: <bolger@egroups.com>
> >> >Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 11:18 AM
> >> >Subject: [bolger] Re: Light Schooner Question #2 (cutting trees for
> >masts)
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> --- Inbolger@egroups.com, "Peter Vanderwaart" <pvanderw@o...>
wrote:
> >> >> > > I've often wondered about
> >> >> > > cutting a few down, drying them (how long is necessary?) and
> >> >> > > planing/sanding off the bark and an extraneous knobs,
branches,
> >> >> > etc.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > From Pete Culler's Skiffs & Schooners:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > "I'm often asked just how and where to get a wooden spar. The
> >> >> answer
> >> >> > is at a lumber yard, unless you are so fortunate to be able to
go
> >> >> out
> >> >> > in the woods, which is more fun. ... Spruce or fir does quite
well."
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Peter
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> I'm sitting here in NW Oregon looking out my window at several
> >> >> hundred Douglas Fir "Masts". All sizes.
> >> >>
> >> >> Anyone in the area building a boat and looking for a mast, get in
> >> >> touch. The Price will be a ride on your boat.
> >> >>
> >> >> Pat Patteson
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Bolger rules!!!
> >> >> - no cursing
> >> >> - stay on topic
> >> >> - use punctuation
> >> >> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> >> >> - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Bolger rules!!!
> >> >- no cursing
> >> >- stay on topic
> >> >- use punctuation
> >> >- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> >> >- add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> >>
> >>
> >> CRUMBLING EMPIRE PRODUCTIONS
> >> 134 W.26th St. 12th Floor
> >> New York, NY 10001
> >> (212) 243-1636
> >>
> >>
> >> Bolger rules!!!
> >> - no cursing
> >> - stay on topic
> >> - use punctuation
> >> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> >> - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >Bolger rules!!!
> >- no cursing
> >- stay on topic
> >- use punctuation
> >- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> >- add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
>
>
> CRUMBLING EMPIRE PRODUCTIONS
> 134 W.26th St. 12th Floor
> New York, NY 10001
> (212) 243-1636
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing
> - stay on topic
> - use punctuation
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
>
Nominal 2x4, whatever that is today. They keep making them smaller and smaller.
My masts (especially the mainmast) aren't really round; more halfway
between round and a rounded square. You can be reasonable sure that
the size of the mast specified has as much to do with what is easy
to find as how big it needs to be. If they break, I'll make more. The
mast-making was one of the best parts of the boat.
Don't let yourself get bogged down in these silly little details.I
regret everyday I wasted pondering and worrying about this epoxy or
that epoxy; this filler or that filler; etc. It's a freakin' instant
boat, it's supposed to be easy. Build the damn thing and go sailing.
If after you've got her in the water you feel regret about your
compromises, take that to the next project. (You know you'll be
building another boat, don't you?)
Between work and no truck, I haven't had the LSME out since her
maiden voyage (#*&$*#@ trailer boat!)
It's agony. Sailing her is just about a perfect experience,
compromise, mistakes and all.
YIBB,
David
134 W.26th St. 12th Floor
New York, NY 10001
(212) 243-1636
My masts (especially the mainmast) aren't really round; more halfway
between round and a rounded square. You can be reasonable sure that
the size of the mast specified has as much to do with what is easy
to find as how big it needs to be. If they break, I'll make more. The
mast-making was one of the best parts of the boat.
Don't let yourself get bogged down in these silly little details.I
regret everyday I wasted pondering and worrying about this epoxy or
that epoxy; this filler or that filler; etc. It's a freakin' instant
boat, it's supposed to be easy. Build the damn thing and go sailing.
If after you've got her in the water you feel regret about your
compromises, take that to the next project. (You know you'll be
building another boat, don't you?)
Between work and no truck, I haven't had the LSME out since her
maiden voyage (#*&$*#@ trailer boat!)
It's agony. Sailing her is just about a perfect experience,
compromise, mistakes and all.
YIBB,
David
>So are the 2x4s you used actually 2x4s or did you round the masts smallerCRUMBLING EMPIRE PRODUCTIONS
>than the plans call for? Unfortunately, all the good clear timber was used
>up frivolously a long time ago. I recently built a bathroom in my house, and
>had to install a flush-fit medicine cabinet in an existing wall. When I cut
>the wall open, I found that the studs in my 30 year old townhouse are all
>made from the prettiest old growth, tight vertical grain, clear Douglas Fir
>2x4s that you can imagine! Seems a shame to have all of this prime
>boatbuilding lumber going to waste just to hold up my house! I found a 9
>foot length of similarly beautiful wood for the gaffs of the Schooner, and
>paid $16.65 for it! If; 30 years ago, this lumber had cost even 1/2 that, my
>house would never have been built. Anyway, I've decided there's no way I'm
>paying $288 for masts, so I'm going to use the crappy No. 2 SPF from Home
>Depot. How much difference in strength is there going to be if I make 3"
>masts instead of 3 1/2"?
>____________________________________________________________________________
>__
>Human beings can always be counted upon to assert, with vigor, their
>God-given right to be stupid.
> -Dean Koontz
>----- Original Message -----
>From: David Ryan <david@...>
>To: <bolger@egroups.com>
>Sent: Friday, October 13, 2000 12:23 AM
>Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Light Schooner Question #2 (cutting trees for
>masts)
>
>
>> The masts on my recently launched light scooner are laminated lumber
>> yard 2x4s. I took a little time to find "complementary" sticks so I
>> could put the flaws of one board against a good portion of the other.
>>
>> I think their going to be fine, and if they're not, they only cost
>> about 3 dollars a foot, including epoxy.
>>
>> In this day, you've got to take all that "clear lumber" stuff in with
>> a grain of salt. There just isn't that much clear lumber, and what
>> there is'll cost you plenty. I'm sure if there was a new addition of
>> of "Instant Boats" written today, you'd find plenty of advice on how
>> to use all this shitty lumber.
>>
>> I was lucky enough to find a clear 2x10 28 feet long that gave me my
>> chine logs and sheer clamps. Right on top of the unit.
>>
>> -D
>>
>> >Well, it's a shame Maryland is so far from Oregon! I finally found a mill
>> >able to supply me with 2"x8"x16' clear rough-cut Doug Fir. They can rip
>this
>> >down to the correct dimensions. Unfortunately, they want $9.00 a linear
>> >foot. That equates to $288.00 total! Arrrggghh!!! I can use aluminum flag
>> >poles; ala Gregg Carlson, for $390.00, but the object is to keep costs to
>a
>> >minimum. I think I'm going to resort to laminating the masts from
>standard
>> >lumberyard SPF stock, which is probably White Pine. I already used it for
>> >the booms, and it's very lightweight. The piece of clear Doug Fir that I
>> >managed to find for the gaffs (strength is more of a factor here) is
>> >considerably heavier. I'm thinking of using two 2x4s and a single 1x4,
>> >making the finished dimensions 3 1/2" x 3 3/4" which can be planed down
>to 3
>> >1/2 x 3 1/2. Of course, the quality of the SPF stock is absolutely
>> >repugnant, but at least it's cheap. Hmmm... I wonder how much the freight
>> >charges from Oregon would be???
>> >
>> >Stephen Lane
>> >Baltimore, Maryland
>>
>>___________________________________________________________________________
>_
>> >__
>> >Human beings can always be counted upon to assert, with vigor, their
>> >God-given right to be stupid.
>> > -Dean Koontz
>> >----- Original Message -----
>> >From: <pateson@...>
>> >To: <bolger@egroups.com>
>> >Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 11:18 AM
>> >Subject: [bolger] Re: Light Schooner Question #2 (cutting trees for
>masts)
>> >
>> >
>> >> --- Inbolger@egroups.com, "Peter Vanderwaart" <pvanderw@o...> wrote:
>> >> > > I've often wondered about
>> >> > > cutting a few down, drying them (how long is necessary?) and
>> >> > > planing/sanding off the bark and an extraneous knobs, branches,
>> >> > etc.
>> >> >
>> >> > From Pete Culler's Skiffs & Schooners:
>> >> >
>> >> > "I'm often asked just how and where to get a wooden spar. The
>> >> answer
>> >> > is at a lumber yard, unless you are so fortunate to be able to go
>> >> out
>> >> > in the woods, which is more fun. ... Spruce or fir does quite well."
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Peter
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I'm sitting here in NW Oregon looking out my window at several
>> >> hundred Douglas Fir "Masts". All sizes.
>> >>
>> >> Anyone in the area building a boat and looking for a mast, get in
>> >> touch. The Price will be a ride on your boat.
>> >>
>> >> Pat Patteson
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Bolger rules!!!
>> >> - no cursing
>> >> - stay on topic
>> >> - use punctuation
>> >> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
>> >> - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Bolger rules!!!
>> >- no cursing
>> >- stay on topic
>> >- use punctuation
>> >- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
>> >- add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
>>
>>
>> CRUMBLING EMPIRE PRODUCTIONS
>> 134 W.26th St. 12th Floor
>> New York, NY 10001
>> (212) 243-1636
>>
>>
>> Bolger rules!!!
>> - no cursing
>> - stay on topic
>> - use punctuation
>> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
>> - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
>>
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing
>- stay on topic
>- use punctuation
>- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
>- add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
134 W.26th St. 12th Floor
New York, NY 10001
(212) 243-1636
So are the 2x4s you used actually 2x4s or did you round the masts smaller
than the plans call for? Unfortunately, all the good clear timber was used
up frivolously a long time ago. I recently built a bathroom in my house, and
had to install a flush-fit medicine cabinet in an existing wall. When I cut
the wall open, I found that the studs in my 30 year old townhouse are all
made from the prettiest old growth, tight vertical grain, clear Douglas Fir
2x4s that you can imagine! Seems a shame to have all of this prime
boatbuilding lumber going to waste just to hold up my house! I found a 9
foot length of similarly beautiful wood for the gaffs of the Schooner, and
paid $16.65 for it! If; 30 years ago, this lumber had cost even 1/2 that, my
house would never have been built. Anyway, I've decided there's no way I'm
paying $288 for masts, so I'm going to use the crappy No. 2 SPF from Home
Depot. How much difference in strength is there going to be if I make 3"
masts instead of 3 1/2"?
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Human beings can always be counted upon to assert, with vigor, their
God-given right to be stupid.
-Dean Koontz
than the plans call for? Unfortunately, all the good clear timber was used
up frivolously a long time ago. I recently built a bathroom in my house, and
had to install a flush-fit medicine cabinet in an existing wall. When I cut
the wall open, I found that the studs in my 30 year old townhouse are all
made from the prettiest old growth, tight vertical grain, clear Douglas Fir
2x4s that you can imagine! Seems a shame to have all of this prime
boatbuilding lumber going to waste just to hold up my house! I found a 9
foot length of similarly beautiful wood for the gaffs of the Schooner, and
paid $16.65 for it! If; 30 years ago, this lumber had cost even 1/2 that, my
house would never have been built. Anyway, I've decided there's no way I'm
paying $288 for masts, so I'm going to use the crappy No. 2 SPF from Home
Depot. How much difference in strength is there going to be if I make 3"
masts instead of 3 1/2"?
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Human beings can always be counted upon to assert, with vigor, their
God-given right to be stupid.
-Dean Koontz
----- Original Message -----
From: David Ryan <david@...>
To: <bolger@egroups.com>
Sent: Friday, October 13, 2000 12:23 AM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Light Schooner Question #2 (cutting trees for
masts)
> The masts on my recently launched light scooner are laminated lumber
> yard 2x4s. I took a little time to find "complementary" sticks so I
> could put the flaws of one board against a good portion of the other.
>
> I think their going to be fine, and if they're not, they only cost
> about 3 dollars a foot, including epoxy.
>
> In this day, you've got to take all that "clear lumber" stuff in with
> a grain of salt. There just isn't that much clear lumber, and what
> there is'll cost you plenty. I'm sure if there was a new addition of
> of "Instant Boats" written today, you'd find plenty of advice on how
> to use all this shitty lumber.
>
> I was lucky enough to find a clear 2x10 28 feet long that gave me my
> chine logs and sheer clamps. Right on top of the unit.
>
> -D
>
> >Well, it's a shame Maryland is so far from Oregon! I finally found a mill
> >able to supply me with 2"x8"x16' clear rough-cut Doug Fir. They can rip
this
> >down to the correct dimensions. Unfortunately, they want $9.00 a linear
> >foot. That equates to $288.00 total! Arrrggghh!!! I can use aluminum flag
> >poles; ala Gregg Carlson, for $390.00, but the object is to keep costs to
a
> >minimum. I think I'm going to resort to laminating the masts from
standard
> >lumberyard SPF stock, which is probably White Pine. I already used it for
> >the booms, and it's very lightweight. The piece of clear Doug Fir that I
> >managed to find for the gaffs (strength is more of a factor here) is
> >considerably heavier. I'm thinking of using two 2x4s and a single 1x4,
> >making the finished dimensions 3 1/2" x 3 3/4" which can be planed down
to 3
> >1/2 x 3 1/2. Of course, the quality of the SPF stock is absolutely
> >repugnant, but at least it's cheap. Hmmm... I wonder how much the freight
> >charges from Oregon would be???
> >
> >Stephen Lane
> >Baltimore, Maryland
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
_
> >__
> >Human beings can always be counted upon to assert, with vigor, their
> >God-given right to be stupid.
> > -Dean Koontz
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: <pateson@...>
> >To: <bolger@egroups.com>
> >Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 11:18 AM
> >Subject: [bolger] Re: Light Schooner Question #2 (cutting trees for
masts)
> >
> >
> >> --- Inbolger@egroups.com, "Peter Vanderwaart" <pvanderw@o...> wrote:
> >> > > I've often wondered about
> >> > > cutting a few down, drying them (how long is necessary?) and
> >> > > planing/sanding off the bark and an extraneous knobs, branches,
> >> > etc.
> >> >
> >> > From Pete Culler's Skiffs & Schooners:
> >> >
> >> > "I'm often asked just how and where to get a wooden spar. The
> >> answer
> >> > is at a lumber yard, unless you are so fortunate to be able to go
> >> out
> >> > in the woods, which is more fun. ... Spruce or fir does quite well."
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Peter
> >>
> >>
> >> I'm sitting here in NW Oregon looking out my window at several
> >> hundred Douglas Fir "Masts". All sizes.
> >>
> >> Anyone in the area building a boat and looking for a mast, get in
> >> touch. The Price will be a ride on your boat.
> >>
> >> Pat Patteson
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Bolger rules!!!
> >> - no cursing
> >> - stay on topic
> >> - use punctuation
> >> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> >> - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >Bolger rules!!!
> >- no cursing
> >- stay on topic
> >- use punctuation
> >- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> >- add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
>
>
> CRUMBLING EMPIRE PRODUCTIONS
> 134 W.26th St. 12th Floor
> New York, NY 10001
> (212) 243-1636
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing
> - stay on topic
> - use punctuation
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
>
The masts on my recently launched light scooner are laminated lumber
yard 2x4s. I took a little time to find "complementary" sticks so I
could put the flaws of one board against a good portion of the other.
I think their going to be fine, and if they're not, they only cost
about 3 dollars a foot, including epoxy.
In this day, you've got to take all that "clear lumber" stuff in with
a grain of salt. There just isn't that much clear lumber, and what
there is'll cost you plenty. I'm sure if there was a new addition of
of "Instant Boats" written today, you'd find plenty of advice on how
to use all this shitty lumber.
I was lucky enough to find a clear 2x10 28 feet long that gave me my
chine logs and sheer clamps. Right on top of the unit.
-D
134 W.26th St. 12th Floor
New York, NY 10001
(212) 243-1636
yard 2x4s. I took a little time to find "complementary" sticks so I
could put the flaws of one board against a good portion of the other.
I think their going to be fine, and if they're not, they only cost
about 3 dollars a foot, including epoxy.
In this day, you've got to take all that "clear lumber" stuff in with
a grain of salt. There just isn't that much clear lumber, and what
there is'll cost you plenty. I'm sure if there was a new addition of
of "Instant Boats" written today, you'd find plenty of advice on how
to use all this shitty lumber.
I was lucky enough to find a clear 2x10 28 feet long that gave me my
chine logs and sheer clamps. Right on top of the unit.
-D
>Well, it's a shame Maryland is so far from Oregon! I finally found a millCRUMBLING EMPIRE PRODUCTIONS
>able to supply me with 2"x8"x16' clear rough-cut Doug Fir. They can rip this
>down to the correct dimensions. Unfortunately, they want $9.00 a linear
>foot. That equates to $288.00 total! Arrrggghh!!! I can use aluminum flag
>poles; ala Gregg Carlson, for $390.00, but the object is to keep costs to a
>minimum. I think I'm going to resort to laminating the masts from standard
>lumberyard SPF stock, which is probably White Pine. I already used it for
>the booms, and it's very lightweight. The piece of clear Doug Fir that I
>managed to find for the gaffs (strength is more of a factor here) is
>considerably heavier. I'm thinking of using two 2x4s and a single 1x4,
>making the finished dimensions 3 1/2" x 3 3/4" which can be planed down to 3
>1/2 x 3 1/2. Of course, the quality of the SPF stock is absolutely
>repugnant, but at least it's cheap. Hmmm... I wonder how much the freight
>charges from Oregon would be???
>
>Stephen Lane
>Baltimore, Maryland
>____________________________________________________________________________
>__
>Human beings can always be counted upon to assert, with vigor, their
>God-given right to be stupid.
> -Dean Koontz
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <pateson@...>
>To: <bolger@egroups.com>
>Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 11:18 AM
>Subject: [bolger] Re: Light Schooner Question #2 (cutting trees for masts)
>
>
>> --- Inbolger@egroups.com, "Peter Vanderwaart" <pvanderw@o...> wrote:
>> > > I've often wondered about
>> > > cutting a few down, drying them (how long is necessary?) and
>> > > planing/sanding off the bark and an extraneous knobs, branches,
>> > etc.
>> >
>> > From Pete Culler's Skiffs & Schooners:
>> >
>> > "I'm often asked just how and where to get a wooden spar. The
>> answer
>> > is at a lumber yard, unless you are so fortunate to be able to go
>> out
>> > in the woods, which is more fun. ... Spruce or fir does quite well."
>> >
>> >
>> > Peter
>>
>>
>> I'm sitting here in NW Oregon looking out my window at several
>> hundred Douglas Fir "Masts". All sizes.
>>
>> Anyone in the area building a boat and looking for a mast, get in
>> touch. The Price will be a ride on your boat.
>>
>> Pat Patteson
>>
>>
>>
>> Bolger rules!!!
>> - no cursing
>> - stay on topic
>> - use punctuation
>> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
>> - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
>>
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing
>- stay on topic
>- use punctuation
>- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
>- add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
134 W.26th St. 12th Floor
New York, NY 10001
(212) 243-1636
Well, it's a shame Maryland is so far from Oregon! I finally found a mill
able to supply me with 2"x8"x16' clear rough-cut Doug Fir. They can rip this
down to the correct dimensions. Unfortunately, they want $9.00 a linear
foot. That equates to $288.00 total! Arrrggghh!!! I can use aluminum flag
poles; ala Gregg Carlson, for $390.00, but the object is to keep costs to a
minimum. I think I'm going to resort to laminating the masts from standard
lumberyard SPF stock, which is probably White Pine. I already used it for
the booms, and it's very lightweight. The piece of clear Doug Fir that I
managed to find for the gaffs (strength is more of a factor here) is
considerably heavier. I'm thinking of using two 2x4s and a single 1x4,
making the finished dimensions 3 1/2" x 3 3/4" which can be planed down to 3
1/2 x 3 1/2. Of course, the quality of the SPF stock is absolutely
repugnant, but at least it's cheap. Hmmm... I wonder how much the freight
charges from Oregon would be???
Stephen Lane
Baltimore, Maryland
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Human beings can always be counted upon to assert, with vigor, their
God-given right to be stupid.
-Dean Koontz
able to supply me with 2"x8"x16' clear rough-cut Doug Fir. They can rip this
down to the correct dimensions. Unfortunately, they want $9.00 a linear
foot. That equates to $288.00 total! Arrrggghh!!! I can use aluminum flag
poles; ala Gregg Carlson, for $390.00, but the object is to keep costs to a
minimum. I think I'm going to resort to laminating the masts from standard
lumberyard SPF stock, which is probably White Pine. I already used it for
the booms, and it's very lightweight. The piece of clear Doug Fir that I
managed to find for the gaffs (strength is more of a factor here) is
considerably heavier. I'm thinking of using two 2x4s and a single 1x4,
making the finished dimensions 3 1/2" x 3 3/4" which can be planed down to 3
1/2 x 3 1/2. Of course, the quality of the SPF stock is absolutely
repugnant, but at least it's cheap. Hmmm... I wonder how much the freight
charges from Oregon would be???
Stephen Lane
Baltimore, Maryland
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Human beings can always be counted upon to assert, with vigor, their
God-given right to be stupid.
-Dean Koontz
----- Original Message -----
From: <pateson@...>
To: <bolger@egroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 11:18 AM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Light Schooner Question #2 (cutting trees for masts)
> --- Inbolger@egroups.com, "Peter Vanderwaart" <pvanderw@o...> wrote:
> > > I've often wondered about
> > > cutting a few down, drying them (how long is necessary?) and
> > > planing/sanding off the bark and an extraneous knobs, branches,
> > etc.
> >
> > From Pete Culler's Skiffs & Schooners:
> >
> > "I'm often asked just how and where to get a wooden spar. The
> answer
> > is at a lumber yard, unless you are so fortunate to be able to go
> out
> > in the woods, which is more fun. ... Spruce or fir does quite well."
> >
> >
> > Peter
>
>
> I'm sitting here in NW Oregon looking out my window at several
> hundred Douglas Fir "Masts". All sizes.
>
> Anyone in the area building a boat and looking for a mast, get in
> touch. The Price will be a ride on your boat.
>
> Pat Patteson
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing
> - stay on topic
> - use punctuation
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
>
In a message dated 10/12/00 12:08:11 AM Central Daylight Time,
secesh@...writes:
<< How long would it take for a whole
tree to dry enough to be workable (i.e. sanding, smoothing, finishing)? >>
I have no idea how long it would take or what the proper procedure would be.
Never tried it myself and I don't recall any memorable writings on the
subject. Probably the early builders' examples were "finished" no more than
necessary to do the job - using edged tools rather indifferent to the
moisture content of the wood. You might consider using a "green" stick for
starters, while others dry to the extent that they can be finished to what
you consider an appropriate standard. I would worry about checking, for
starters, and a host of other potential problems, if I gave it much thought.
I think you should give those second-growth trees a trial and report back to
the group. I'm willing to support a NSF grant for your research, should you
undertake this enterprise.
Bill in semi-tropical (70 degrees F.) MN
secesh@...writes:
<< How long would it take for a whole
tree to dry enough to be workable (i.e. sanding, smoothing, finishing)? >>
I have no idea how long it would take or what the proper procedure would be.
Never tried it myself and I don't recall any memorable writings on the
subject. Probably the early builders' examples were "finished" no more than
necessary to do the job - using edged tools rather indifferent to the
moisture content of the wood. You might consider using a "green" stick for
starters, while others dry to the extent that they can be finished to what
you consider an appropriate standard. I would worry about checking, for
starters, and a host of other potential problems, if I gave it much thought.
I think you should give those second-growth trees a trial and report back to
the group. I'm willing to support a NSF grant for your research, should you
undertake this enterprise.
Bill in semi-tropical (70 degrees F.) MN
>I'm sitting here in NW Oregon looking out my window at severalBeuhler is such a nut about using trees for masts, he says if you
>hundred Douglas Fir "Masts". All sizes.
>
>Anyone in the area building a boat and looking for a mast, get in
>touch. The Price will be a ride on your boat.
don't have access to trees where you live, build the boat and motor
it somewhere you do.
Sadly, neither L.I nor NYC have too many tight groves of doug fir, so
call me laminated mast boy.
-David
CRUMBLING EMPIRE PRODUCTIONS
134 W.26th St. 12th Floor
New York, NY 10001
(212) 243-1636
--- Inbolger@egroups.com, "Peter Vanderwaart" <pvanderw@o...> wrote:
hundred Douglas Fir "Masts". All sizes.
Anyone in the area building a boat and looking for a mast, get in
touch. The Price will be a ride on your boat.
Pat Patteson
> > I've often wondered aboutanswer
> > cutting a few down, drying them (how long is necessary?) and
> > planing/sanding off the bark and an extraneous knobs, branches,
> etc.
>
> From Pete Culler's Skiffs & Schooners:
>
> "I'm often asked just how and where to get a wooden spar. The
> is at a lumber yard, unless you are so fortunate to be able to goout
> in the woods, which is more fun. ... Spruce or fir does quite well."I'm sitting here in NW Oregon looking out my window at several
>
>
> Peter
hundred Douglas Fir "Masts". All sizes.
Anyone in the area building a boat and looking for a mast, get in
touch. The Price will be a ride on your boat.
Pat Patteson
Cut the tree, shape it, step it, bend on the sail and go sail ASAP.
What's the worst thing that could happen?
-D
134 W.26th St. 12th Floor
New York, NY 10001
(212) 243-1636
What's the worst thing that could happen?
-D
>I stand corrected; however, considering that I am aiming for an early summerCRUMBLING EMPIRE PRODUCTIONS
>launch date, is it feasible to do this? How long would it take for a whole
>tree to dry enough to be workable (i.e. sanding, smoothing, finishing)?
>____________________________________________________________________________
>__
>Human beings can always be counted upon to assert, with vigor, their
>God-given right to be stupid.
> -Dean Koontz
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <wmrpage@...>
>To: <bolger@egroups.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2000 7:16 PM
>Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Light Schooner Question #2
>
>
>> In a message dated 10/10/00 11:03:30 PM Central Daylight Time,
>>foster.price@...writes:
>>
>> << He advocated chosing a tree that was close to the final dimensions of
>> the mast/spar, taking off the bark and finishing. >>
>>
>> On pp. 280-282 of "Structures, or Why Things Don't Fall Down", J.E.
>Gordon,
>> ISBN 0-306-80151-1, (a highly interesting book), the author states that
>trees
>> grow in such a fashion that the outside of the trunk is pre-loaded in
>> tension, while the inner layers are pre-loaded in compression. As wood is
>> much stronger in tension than compression, this means that the compression
>> load on the side of the trunk loaded in compression is half of what it
>would
>> be absent this pre-tensioning, meaning a greater bending load can be
>> sustained without failure. He explicitly refers to the case of making
>solid,
>> as opposed to built-up, sailboat masts and even throws in a quotation from
>> Weston Marytr, "The Southseaman"!
>>
>> The book is a good read and the above an endorsement for the concept of
>using
>> tree trunks ala Munroe.
>>
>> Internet authoritatively,
>> Bill in MN
>>
>>
>> Bolger rules!!!
>> - no cursing
>> - stay on topic
>> - use punctuation
>> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
>> - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
>>
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing
>- stay on topic
>- use punctuation
>- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
>- add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
134 W.26th St. 12th Floor
New York, NY 10001
(212) 243-1636
If you are serious about doing this, call Dynamite Payton. He has
experience.
In Skiffs & Schooners, Culler said the masts for sizeable cruising
ketches should be solid sticks, not hollow. I wonder if he was aware
of the tension/compression business, perhaps in terms of accumulated
boatbuilder wisdom, if not in the technical sense.
Peter
experience.
In Skiffs & Schooners, Culler said the masts for sizeable cruising
ketches should be solid sticks, not hollow. I wonder if he was aware
of the tension/compression business, perhaps in terms of accumulated
boatbuilder wisdom, if not in the technical sense.
Peter
--- Inbolger@egroups.com, "Derek Waters" <dgw@d...> wrote:
> Air drying hardwood is supposed to take a year or thereabouts for
every inch
> of thickness, and that is in line with my own limited experience.
Softwood
> (I was taught) averages about six months for each inch of
thickness. Of
> course you would be cutting the stick when sap was down, leaving
you maybe
> five months of drying time. I guess a pole mast could be stepped
green at
> the heart as long as the surface finish was breathable....
>
> Derek
Air drying hardwood is supposed to take a year or thereabouts for every inch
of thickness, and that is in line with my own limited experience. Softwood
(I was taught) averages about six months for each inch of thickness. Of
course you would be cutting the stick when sap was down, leaving you maybe
five months of drying time. I guess a pole mast could be stepped green at
the heart as long as the surface finish was breathable....
Derek
of thickness, and that is in line with my own limited experience. Softwood
(I was taught) averages about six months for each inch of thickness. Of
course you would be cutting the stick when sap was down, leaving you maybe
five months of drying time. I guess a pole mast could be stepped green at
the heart as long as the surface finish was breathable....
Derek
I stand corrected; however, considering that I am aiming for an early summer
launch date, is it feasible to do this? How long would it take for a whole
tree to dry enough to be workable (i.e. sanding, smoothing, finishing)?
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Human beings can always be counted upon to assert, with vigor, their
God-given right to be stupid.
-Dean Koontz
launch date, is it feasible to do this? How long would it take for a whole
tree to dry enough to be workable (i.e. sanding, smoothing, finishing)?
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Human beings can always be counted upon to assert, with vigor, their
God-given right to be stupid.
-Dean Koontz
----- Original Message -----
From: <wmrpage@...>
To: <bolger@egroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2000 7:16 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Light Schooner Question #2
> In a message dated 10/10/00 11:03:30 PM Central Daylight Time,
>foster.price@...writes:
>
> << He advocated chosing a tree that was close to the final dimensions of
> the mast/spar, taking off the bark and finishing. >>
>
> On pp. 280-282 of "Structures, or Why Things Don't Fall Down", J.E.
Gordon,
> ISBN 0-306-80151-1, (a highly interesting book), the author states that
trees
> grow in such a fashion that the outside of the trunk is pre-loaded in
> tension, while the inner layers are pre-loaded in compression. As wood is
> much stronger in tension than compression, this means that the compression
> load on the side of the trunk loaded in compression is half of what it
would
> be absent this pre-tensioning, meaning a greater bending load can be
> sustained without failure. He explicitly refers to the case of making
solid,
> as opposed to built-up, sailboat masts and even throws in a quotation from
> Weston Marytr, "The Southseaman"!
>
> The book is a good read and the above an endorsement for the concept of
using
> tree trunks ala Munroe.
>
> Internet authoritatively,
> Bill in MN
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing
> - stay on topic
> - use punctuation
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
>
You would definitly want to seal the end grain where rapid moisture loses
contribute to heavy checking. Tar or wax is a old standard.
HTH
Terry C
contribute to heavy checking. Tar or wax is a old standard.
HTH
Terry C
In a message dated 10/10/00 11:03:30 PM Central Daylight Time,
foster.price@...writes:
<< He advocated chosing a tree that was close to the final dimensions of
the mast/spar, taking off the bark and finishing. >>
On pp. 280-282 of "Structures, or Why Things Don't Fall Down", J.E. Gordon,
ISBN 0-306-80151-1, (a highly interesting book), the author states that trees
grow in such a fashion that the outside of the trunk is pre-loaded in
tension, while the inner layers are pre-loaded in compression. As wood is
much stronger in tension than compression, this means that the compression
load on the side of the trunk loaded in compression is half of what it would
be absent this pre-tensioning, meaning a greater bending load can be
sustained without failure. He explicitly refers to the case of making solid,
as opposed to built-up, sailboat masts and even throws in a quotation from
Weston Marytr, "The Southseaman"!
The book is a good read and the above an endorsement for the concept of using
tree trunks ala Munroe.
Internet authoritatively,
Bill in MN
foster.price@...writes:
<< He advocated chosing a tree that was close to the final dimensions of
the mast/spar, taking off the bark and finishing. >>
On pp. 280-282 of "Structures, or Why Things Don't Fall Down", J.E. Gordon,
ISBN 0-306-80151-1, (a highly interesting book), the author states that trees
grow in such a fashion that the outside of the trunk is pre-loaded in
tension, while the inner layers are pre-loaded in compression. As wood is
much stronger in tension than compression, this means that the compression
load on the side of the trunk loaded in compression is half of what it would
be absent this pre-tensioning, meaning a greater bending load can be
sustained without failure. He explicitly refers to the case of making solid,
as opposed to built-up, sailboat masts and even throws in a quotation from
Weston Marytr, "The Southseaman"!
The book is a good read and the above an endorsement for the concept of using
tree trunks ala Munroe.
Internet authoritatively,
Bill in MN
> I've often wondered aboutetc.
> cutting a few down, drying them (how long is necessary?) and
> planing/sanding off the bark and an extraneous knobs, branches,
From Pete Culler's Skiffs & Schooners:
"I'm often asked just how and where to get a wooden spar. The answer
is at a lumber yard, unless you are so fortunate to be able to go out
in the woods, which is more fun. ... Spruce or fir does quite well."
I'm sure I remember a quote from Culler that went something
like: "When choosing a cedar tree to cut for a mast, I like to get
right into the tree to see if it is straight." But I don't find the
quote in the book.
I'm sure that softwoods (pine, spruce, cedar) are used in preference
to hardwoods. Not all are the same stiffness, and dimensions may have
to be altered. I think Hackmatack (Larch) would be good. The trunks
grow very straight.
Leander glued Home Depot 2x4's for his Folding Schooner masts. They
are not perfectly straight, but probably as straight as a cut-down-
tree would be. It would be hard to be this approach on cost. His
opinion and mine was that around here, the grain is better in 2x6's
than 2x4's, but it would raise the cost.
Peter
George Buehler advocates the same thing in his book :
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0071583807/o/qid=971266177/sr=8-1/ref=aps_sr_b_1_3/104-8244548-3647153
He recommends keeping the outside oiled so it won't dry too fast and
rotating it occasionally so it'll remain straight.
On a larger boat, you would have plenty of time for the masts to dry while
you're building.
Foster Price <foster.price@...> on 10/11/2000 12:59:03 PM
Please respond tobolger@egroups.com
To: "'bolger@egroups.com'" <bolger@egroups.com>
cc:
Subject: RE: [bolger] Re: Light Schooner Question #2
Well just to add to the picture, no less an authority than Commodore Munroe
stated that for the best mast the minimum should be removed from the
natural
tree. He advocated chosing a tree that was close to the final dimensions
of
the mast/spar, taking off the bark and finishing.
He did lots of quite big lightly stayed and freestanding rigs so I reckon
he
must have known a thing or two.
They did, in his days, regard time in a differnt manner than we tend to
today, so may not have minded (or planned ahead) to wait a bit longer for a
natural mast to dry properly.
Foster Price
- no cursing
- stay on topic
- use punctuation
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
- add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0071583807/o/qid=971266177/sr=8-1/ref=aps_sr_b_1_3/104-8244548-3647153
He recommends keeping the outside oiled so it won't dry too fast and
rotating it occasionally so it'll remain straight.
On a larger boat, you would have plenty of time for the masts to dry while
you're building.
Foster Price <foster.price@...> on 10/11/2000 12:59:03 PM
Please respond tobolger@egroups.com
To: "'bolger@egroups.com'" <bolger@egroups.com>
cc:
Subject: RE: [bolger] Re: Light Schooner Question #2
Well just to add to the picture, no less an authority than Commodore Munroe
stated that for the best mast the minimum should be removed from the
natural
tree. He advocated chosing a tree that was close to the final dimensions
of
the mast/spar, taking off the bark and finishing.
He did lots of quite big lightly stayed and freestanding rigs so I reckon
he
must have known a thing or two.
They did, in his days, regard time in a differnt manner than we tend to
today, so may not have minded (or planned ahead) to wait a bit longer for a
natural mast to dry properly.
Foster Price
> -----Original Message-----Bolger rules!!!
> From: Cyber Rebel [mailto:secesh@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, 11 October 2000 16:15
> To:bolger@egroups.com
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Light Schooner Question #2
>
>
> Merely speculation, but I would think that the drying of a
> whole, unsawn
> tree would require far too much time since all of the growth
> rings would
> remain intact. Also, I think a whole tree would be prone to
> splitting since
> the outer layers would dry faster than the inner layers.
> ______________________________________________________________
> ______________
> __
> Human beings can always be counted upon to assert, with vigor, their
> God-given right to be stupid.
>
> -Dean Koontz
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Garth Battista <garth@...>
> To: <bolger@egroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 3:13 PM
> Subject: [bolger] Re: Light Schooner Question #2
>
>
> > Stephen --
> >
> > Where I live (upstate NY), and I think pretty much throughout the
> > northeast, there's no end to the young second-growth forest --
> > gazillions of perfectly straight, tall, self-tapering maple and ash
> > saplings, about 3 1/2" to 4" in diameter. I've often wondered about
> > cutting a few down, drying them (how long is necessary?) and
> > planing/sanding off the bark and an extraneous knobs, branches, etc.
> > -- to relative smoothness. Baseball bats are made of ash --
> how would
> > it work over a longer stretch? Is it too brittle? Maybe it's best to
> > go with a green one for flexibility.
> >
> > I love the idea of it, anyway.
> >
> > All best,
> > Garth
> >
> >
> > > Work has commenced on the booms & gaffs, and as soon as I find
> > decent lumber for the masts I intend to try my hand at making them.
> > One problem I notice
> >
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing
> > - stay on topic
> > - use punctuation
> > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> > - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> >
> >
>
>
> -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor
> -------------------------~-~>
> 40% off fares on
> the best airlines
> at Hotwire.
>http://click.egroups.com/1/9726/18/_/3457/_/971234337/
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> -------_->
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing
> - stay on topic
> - use punctuation
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
>
- no cursing
- stay on topic
- use punctuation
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
- add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
Well just to add to the picture, no less an authority than Commodore Munroe
stated that for the best mast the minimum should be removed from the natural
tree. He advocated chosing a tree that was close to the final dimensions of
the mast/spar, taking off the bark and finishing.
He did lots of quite big lightly stayed and freestanding rigs so I reckon he
must have known a thing or two.
They did, in his days, regard time in a differnt manner than we tend to
today, so may not have minded (or planned ahead) to wait a bit longer for a
natural mast to dry properly.
Foster Price
stated that for the best mast the minimum should be removed from the natural
tree. He advocated chosing a tree that was close to the final dimensions of
the mast/spar, taking off the bark and finishing.
He did lots of quite big lightly stayed and freestanding rigs so I reckon he
must have known a thing or two.
They did, in his days, regard time in a differnt manner than we tend to
today, so may not have minded (or planned ahead) to wait a bit longer for a
natural mast to dry properly.
Foster Price
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cyber Rebel [mailto:secesh@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, 11 October 2000 16:15
> To:bolger@egroups.com
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Light Schooner Question #2
>
>
> Merely speculation, but I would think that the drying of a
> whole, unsawn
> tree would require far too much time since all of the growth
> rings would
> remain intact. Also, I think a whole tree would be prone to
> splitting since
> the outer layers would dry faster than the inner layers.
> ______________________________________________________________
> ______________
> __
> Human beings can always be counted upon to assert, with vigor, their
> God-given right to be stupid.
>
> -Dean Koontz
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Garth Battista <garth@...>
> To: <bolger@egroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 3:13 PM
> Subject: [bolger] Re: Light Schooner Question #2
>
>
> > Stephen --
> >
> > Where I live (upstate NY), and I think pretty much throughout the
> > northeast, there's no end to the young second-growth forest --
> > gazillions of perfectly straight, tall, self-tapering maple and ash
> > saplings, about 3 1/2" to 4" in diameter. I've often wondered about
> > cutting a few down, drying them (how long is necessary?) and
> > planing/sanding off the bark and an extraneous knobs, branches, etc.
> > -- to relative smoothness. Baseball bats are made of ash --
> how would
> > it work over a longer stretch? Is it too brittle? Maybe it's best to
> > go with a green one for flexibility.
> >
> > I love the idea of it, anyway.
> >
> > All best,
> > Garth
> >
> >
> > > Work has commenced on the booms & gaffs, and as soon as I find
> > decent lumber for the masts I intend to try my hand at making them.
> > One problem I notice
> >
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing
> > - stay on topic
> > - use punctuation
> > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> > - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> >
> >
>
>
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> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing
> - stay on topic
> - use punctuation
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
>
Merely speculation, but I would think that the drying of a whole, unsawn
tree would require far too much time since all of the growth rings would
remain intact. Also, I think a whole tree would be prone to splitting since
the outer layers would dry faster than the inner layers.
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Human beings can always be counted upon to assert, with vigor, their
God-given right to be stupid.
-Dean Koontz
tree would require far too much time since all of the growth rings would
remain intact. Also, I think a whole tree would be prone to splitting since
the outer layers would dry faster than the inner layers.
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Human beings can always be counted upon to assert, with vigor, their
God-given right to be stupid.
-Dean Koontz
----- Original Message -----
From: Garth Battista <garth@...>
To: <bolger@egroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 3:13 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Light Schooner Question #2
> Stephen --
>
> Where I live (upstate NY), and I think pretty much throughout the
> northeast, there's no end to the young second-growth forest --
> gazillions of perfectly straight, tall, self-tapering maple and ash
> saplings, about 3 1/2" to 4" in diameter. I've often wondered about
> cutting a few down, drying them (how long is necessary?) and
> planing/sanding off the bark and an extraneous knobs, branches, etc.
> -- to relative smoothness. Baseball bats are made of ash -- how would
> it work over a longer stretch? Is it too brittle? Maybe it's best to
> go with a green one for flexibility.
>
> I love the idea of it, anyway.
>
> All best,
> Garth
>
>
> > Work has commenced on the booms & gaffs, and as soon as I find
> decent lumber for the masts I intend to try my hand at making them.
> One problem I notice
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing
> - stay on topic
> - use punctuation
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
>
>
Stephen --
Where I live (upstate NY), and I think pretty much throughout the
northeast, there's no end to the young second-growth forest --
gazillions of perfectly straight, tall, self-tapering maple and ash
saplings, about 3 1/2" to 4" in diameter. I've often wondered about
cutting a few down, drying them (how long is necessary?) and
planing/sanding off the bark and an extraneous knobs, branches, etc.
-- to relative smoothness. Baseball bats are made of ash -- how would
it work over a longer stretch? Is it too brittle? Maybe it's best to
go with a green one for flexibility.
I love the idea of it, anyway.
All best,
Garth
One problem I notice
Where I live (upstate NY), and I think pretty much throughout the
northeast, there's no end to the young second-growth forest --
gazillions of perfectly straight, tall, self-tapering maple and ash
saplings, about 3 1/2" to 4" in diameter. I've often wondered about
cutting a few down, drying them (how long is necessary?) and
planing/sanding off the bark and an extraneous knobs, branches, etc.
-- to relative smoothness. Baseball bats are made of ash -- how would
it work over a longer stretch? Is it too brittle? Maybe it's best to
go with a green one for flexibility.
I love the idea of it, anyway.
All best,
Garth
> Work has commenced on the booms & gaffs, and as soon as I finddecent lumber for the masts I intend to try my hand at making them.
One problem I notice
I figured it out about 5 minutes after posting. The portion of the drawing
showing the mastheads is in 1/4 scale, that is to say, 3" is 1/4 of 1 foot.
I guess it baffled me because of the way it is written. Besides that, the
study sheets are not to scale, and I haven't yet received my full size
plans.
Work has commenced on the booms & gaffs, and as soon as I find decent lumber
for the masts I intend to try my hand at making them. One problem I notice
in the plans however. Payson says in the text to rip two 2x4s down to 3 1/2"
by 1 3/4" and laminate them to make a 3 1/2" square by 16' long. This is the
blank for the mast. The problem is that 2x4s actually come milled to 1 1/2"
x 3 1/2" and can't be ripped to 1 3/4"! I can't seem to find a true 2x4
anywhere, much less one that is suitable for spar making. None of the 4x4s
(actual 3 1/2 x 3 1/2) I've found are decent either. The best wood I've
found so far is in 1x4s (actual 3/4 x 3 1/2) and I'm thinking of using 5 of
them and planing the thickness to 3 1/2. This is ultimately more expensive
and more time consuming than using true 2x4s. The object is to avoid using
the $140.00 hunks of 3 1/2 x 3 1/2 Sitka that I've managed to find. I'm
trying to build as inexpensively as possible, and still have a quality end
result. Besides that, I'm not sure how I'll fare rounding the masts off, and
I don't want to risk ruining a $200 piece of Spruce. Anybody have a better
idea?
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Human beings can always be counted upon to assert, with vigor, their
God-given right to be stupid.
-Dean Koontz
showing the mastheads is in 1/4 scale, that is to say, 3" is 1/4 of 1 foot.
I guess it baffled me because of the way it is written. Besides that, the
study sheets are not to scale, and I haven't yet received my full size
plans.
Work has commenced on the booms & gaffs, and as soon as I find decent lumber
for the masts I intend to try my hand at making them. One problem I notice
in the plans however. Payson says in the text to rip two 2x4s down to 3 1/2"
by 1 3/4" and laminate them to make a 3 1/2" square by 16' long. This is the
blank for the mast. The problem is that 2x4s actually come milled to 1 1/2"
x 3 1/2" and can't be ripped to 1 3/4"! I can't seem to find a true 2x4
anywhere, much less one that is suitable for spar making. None of the 4x4s
(actual 3 1/2 x 3 1/2) I've found are decent either. The best wood I've
found so far is in 1x4s (actual 3/4 x 3 1/2) and I'm thinking of using 5 of
them and planing the thickness to 3 1/2. This is ultimately more expensive
and more time consuming than using true 2x4s. The object is to avoid using
the $140.00 hunks of 3 1/2 x 3 1/2 Sitka that I've managed to find. I'm
trying to build as inexpensively as possible, and still have a quality end
result. Besides that, I'm not sure how I'll fare rounding the masts off, and
I don't want to risk ruining a $200 piece of Spruce. Anybody have a better
idea?
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Human beings can always be counted upon to assert, with vigor, their
God-given right to be stupid.
-Dean Koontz
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Surface <msurface@...>
To: <bolger@egroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 8:27 AM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Light Schooner Question
> It is a reference to the scale ie. 3" on the drwaing equals 1' in full
scale
> if you work this out it also means 1' full scall equals 1/4" on the
drawing.
>
> Michael Surface
>
>
> >From: "Cyber Rebel" <secesh@...>
> >Reply-To:bolger@egroups.com
> >To: <bolger@egroups.com>
> >Subject: [bolger] Light Schooner Question
> >Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 23:59:29 -0400
> >
> >In "New Instant Boats", the study sheet for the Light Schooner's spars
> >shows
> >a cryptic note next to the enlargement of the main truck. It reads as
> >follows:
> >
> >Mastheads
> >3"=1'0"=1/4
> >
> >Anybody care to illuminate me as to the meaning of this? I imagine that
the
> >3"=1'0" refers to the scale for this part of the sheet... to what does
the
> >1/4 refer?
> >
> >Stephen Lane
> >Baltimore, Maryland
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
_
> >__
> >Human beings can always be counted upon to assert, with vigor, their
> >God-given right to be stupid.
> > -Dean Koontz
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail athttp://www.hotmail.com
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>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing
> - stay on topic
> - use punctuation
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
>
>
Maybe just aware there were lots of suitable trees then.
Sadly its too late to ask him.
Bit late for the trees, even sadder.
Jeff. Glbert
Temporary Prophet of Doom.
Sadly its too late to ask him.
Bit late for the trees, even sadder.
Jeff. Glbert
Temporary Prophet of Doom.
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter Vanderwaart <pvanderw@...>
To: <bolger@egroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 10:41 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Light Schooner Question #2
In Skiffs & Schooners, Culler said the masts for sizeable cruising
ketches should be solid sticks, not hollow. I wonder if he was aware
of the tension/compression business, perhaps in terms of accumulated
boatbuilder wisdom, if not in the technical sense.
Peter
--- Inbolger@egroups.com, "Derek Waters" <dgw@d...> wrote:
> Air drying hardwood is supposed to take a year or thereabouts for
every inch
> of thickness, and that is in line with my own limited experience.
Softwood
> (I was taught) averages about six months for each inch of
thickness. Of
> course you would be cutting the stick when sap was down, leaving
you maybe
> five months of drying time. I guess a pole mast could be stepped
green at
> the heart as long as the surface finish was breathable....
>
> Derek
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing
- stay on topic
- use punctuation
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
- add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.