Re:Folding Schooner thoughts...
In my AF3, I have wilcox-crittendon gudgeons and pintles from
Jamestown distributors. These things don't have a clevis pin or
locking device, so I have a small bungee chord tied to the transom
near the waterline and I loop it around a hook near the top of the
rudder. This keeps the rudder secure, yet releasing it is a breeze.
Frank
Jamestown distributors. These things don't have a clevis pin or
locking device, so I have a small bungee chord tied to the transom
near the waterline and I loop it around a hook near the top of the
rudder. This keeps the rudder secure, yet releasing it is a breeze.
Frank
--- Inbolger@egroups.com, "Richard Sharp" <rbsharp@g...> wrote:
> Actually, that is exactly what I do. I have a short piece of small
> stuff tied to the rudder, and I tie it to a small screw eye on the
> transom. The latch has never opened again, but the rudder does
> sometimes pop off in really shallow water. I have been able to
lift
> the rudder out of the water and use an oar to steer back into
deeper
> water. Thanks for that response. I really appreciate your list of
> links!
> Rich Sharp
> --- Inbolger@egroups.com, jkohnen@e... wrote:
> > It's a Good Idea to tie the rudder to the boat with a shortish
> lanyard so
> > you don't have to chase after it when it comes out of the
gudgeons
> after a
> > knockdown, or gets knocked off the gudgeons and out of your hand
> when you
> > hit a stump. One of these days I intend to do that with my
> rudder... <g>
> >
> > On Wed, 18 Oct 2000 23:10:43 -0000, Rich Sharp wrote:
> > > ...
> > > On my maiden voyage, the spinnaker latch I used to connect
> > > to my rudder opened up when the rudder got pried up and out of
> the
> > > gudgeons and BLAMMO, I was running along at great speed with no
> > > rudder all of a sudden. Never did catch up with that rudder
and
> had
> > > to be towed back to the dock. You learn as you go along and I
> can
> > > say that after twenty-two years, I still love to sail my
Folding
> > > Schooner.
> >
> >
> > --
> > John <jkohnen@b...>
> >http://www.boat-links.com/
> > People say that life is the thing, but I prefer reading. <Logan
> Pearsall Smith>
Actually, that is exactly what I do. I have a short piece of small
stuff tied to the rudder, and I tie it to a small screw eye on the
transom. The latch has never opened again, but the rudder does
sometimes pop off in really shallow water. I have been able to lift
the rudder out of the water and use an oar to steer back into deeper
water. Thanks for that response. I really appreciate your list of
links!
Rich Sharp
stuff tied to the rudder, and I tie it to a small screw eye on the
transom. The latch has never opened again, but the rudder does
sometimes pop off in really shallow water. I have been able to lift
the rudder out of the water and use an oar to steer back into deeper
water. Thanks for that response. I really appreciate your list of
links!
Rich Sharp
--- Inbolger@egroups.com, jkohnen@e... wrote:
> It's a Good Idea to tie the rudder to the boat with a shortish
lanyard so
> you don't have to chase after it when it comes out of the gudgeons
after a
> knockdown, or gets knocked off the gudgeons and out of your hand
when you
> hit a stump. One of these days I intend to do that with my
rudder... <g>
>
> On Wed, 18 Oct 2000 23:10:43 -0000, Rich Sharp wrote:
> > ...
> > On my maiden voyage, the spinnaker latch I used to connect
> > to my rudder opened up when the rudder got pried up and out of
the
> > gudgeons and BLAMMO, I was running along at great speed with no
> > rudder all of a sudden. Never did catch up with that rudder and
had
> > to be towed back to the dock. You learn as you go along and I
can
> > say that after twenty-two years, I still love to sail my Folding
> > Schooner.
>
>
> --
> John <jkohnen@b...>
>http://www.boat-links.com/
> People say that life is the thing, but I prefer reading. <Logan
Pearsall Smith>
It's a Good Idea to tie the rudder to the boat with a shortish lanyard so
you don't have to chase after it when it comes out of the gudgeons after a
knockdown, or gets knocked off the gudgeons and out of your hand when you
hit a stump. One of these days I intend to do that with my rudder... <g>
you don't have to chase after it when it comes out of the gudgeons after a
knockdown, or gets knocked off the gudgeons and out of your hand when you
hit a stump. One of these days I intend to do that with my rudder... <g>
On Wed, 18 Oct 2000 23:10:43 -0000, Rich Sharp wrote:
> ...
> On my maiden voyage, the spinnaker latch I used to connect
> to my rudder opened up when the rudder got pried up and out of the
> gudgeons and BLAMMO, I was running along at great speed with no
> rudder all of a sudden. Never did catch up with that rudder and had
> to be towed back to the dock. You learn as you go along and I can
> say that after twenty-two years, I still love to sail my Folding
> Schooner.
--
John <jkohnen@...>
http://www.boat-links.com/
People say that life is the thing, but I prefer reading. <Logan Pearsall Smith>
Just to add my two cents. My best crew is my twin brother. He
handles the fore and jib and I take the main sheet and tiller. The
advantage of a larger crew is the added waterline length. I
sometimes take along my neighbor for ballast. We almost tipped over
once when we got hit by a gust when we were standing still. As long
as the boat answers to the helm, you don't have to worry too much
about going over. The use of a pin to take the strain off the sheet
is great. I NEVER tie off the sheet, just hook it around the pin.
You were right to be concerned about the link of the tiller to the
rudder. On my maiden voyage, the spinnaker latch I used to connect
to my rudder opened up when the rudder got pried up and out of the
gudgeons and BLAMMO, I was running along at great speed with no
rudder all of a sudden. Never did catch up with that rudder and had
to be towed back to the dock. You learn as you go along and I can
say that after twenty-two years, I still love to sail my Folding
Schooner.
Rich Sharp
handles the fore and jib and I take the main sheet and tiller. The
advantage of a larger crew is the added waterline length. I
sometimes take along my neighbor for ballast. We almost tipped over
once when we got hit by a gust when we were standing still. As long
as the boat answers to the helm, you don't have to worry too much
about going over. The use of a pin to take the strain off the sheet
is great. I NEVER tie off the sheet, just hook it around the pin.
You were right to be concerned about the link of the tiller to the
rudder. On my maiden voyage, the spinnaker latch I used to connect
to my rudder opened up when the rudder got pried up and out of the
gudgeons and BLAMMO, I was running along at great speed with no
rudder all of a sudden. Never did catch up with that rudder and had
to be towed back to the dock. You learn as you go along and I can
say that after twenty-two years, I still love to sail my Folding
Schooner.
Rich Sharp
> Sounds like this is a great boat, but maybe somewhat specialized, asort of racing or rally machine?
Well, it was designed for a race.
> I have to differ on your point about the topping lifts. I use thetopping
> lift to keep the sail and boom *out* of my cockpit.We wanted the sails down because we had to paddle 25 yds upwind
across the harbor to the dock. Perhaps we can agree that they should
be rigged to be quickly attached and disconnected.
As for crew, Leander built it mostly for summer vacations where crew
is available. With three sons plus friends, it should be great fun.
And it stores in the garage (also part of the original design brief!).
Oh, one thing that I was going to add to my post: from my position in
the stern, I could barely see the foresail and could not see the jib
at all. I was right aft against the stern deck because of concern
about connection of the drag link tiller, and could proably see
better in the 'standard' helmming position.
Peter
>4. We had light winds with a few 'gusts' that could have gone up toGoing to weather on the LSME, we too had no trouble putting the rail
>10 knots. In these light winds, we could have capsized the boat if
>everything went wrong at once: gust + crew weight on the wrong side +
>failure to ease the sails + failure to head into the wind. We had the
>lee rail within a couple of inches of the water.
into the water on the puffs. She heel, then release as she surged
forward. 12" of deck made it less troubling than in a completely open
boat like the folding schooner.
>5. We had no trouble making progress to windward. We were not inOne of the things that makes sailing my teal in the open ocean
>company with other boats and we didn't let ourselves get far
>downwind, so we didn't really test windward ability. However,
>moderate windward progress was easy to accomplish. We didn't try to
>beat into the biggest waves we encountered
*exciting* is going to weather and trying find the balance between
enough heel to take the bite out of the chop, but not so much as to
start taking water over the rail. When the teal starts to go under,
she goes distressingly quickly. Experience has taught me it's better
to bang and rattle a little, than to be inches away from cutting
under.
>6. After a half-hour or so of sailing in the light breezes, the twoI have yet to make any allowances for snubbing off the sheets either,
>sheet-handlers were feeling a little tired from the pull of the
>sheets. Having a pin to snub the sheet around would help a lot.
hoping that a few sails in the boat will start to make it obvious
where things ought to be. I really don't want to put a bunch of
modern cam cleats in her, but her "sporty" behavior makes tying off
the cleats more than a calculated risk.
>7. I am dubious about the topping lifts. When we wanted the sailsMy miscut drifter cum mainsail needs a topping lift, otherwise the
>down, we wanted them down in the boat, not suspended above the
>cockpit, blowing in the wind. I can't see motoring along with the
>booms hanging from the topping lifts.
boom sweeps the deck as it comes across. I could re-cut it, but it's
got such nice shape as it is. Only trouble is the topping lift spoils
the shape on the "wrong" tack. I'm thinking maybe dual topping lifts
that can be slacked depending on tack. With so many strings to pull
already, what's a few more?
>8. The boat is big and stable enough so that two or three crewI am still a little bewildered at how big and how small the LSME is.
>scrambling around at the dock doing rigging or unrigging are not
>concerned about the boat tipping beneath them.
I'm sure the addition of another eight feet only heightens the
sensation. I don't know how many people you'd have to sit on the rail
to put her down, but I know it's more than four, probably many more.
But on the other hand, light and unballasted, she moves *a lot* more
than another other 23 footer I've been on when you walk around on
her. There's plenly of room to day sail with six, all on the weather
side even. You won't see that on a Cal 25.
>9. Off the wind in smooth water, she slides along with anNo reaching yet. Straight down wind, then beating back; and sailing
>exhilarating WHOOOOOSH.....!
very gently the whole time. Love how she goes to weather. Nothing to
compare the LSME either, but I get back where I started without a
fuss and that's plenty. That long, long, low FS must look incredible
with the wind across her beam and a full crew to keep her flat! Maybe
next year we'll race!
YIBB,
David
CRUMBLING EMPIRE PRODUCTIONS
134 W.26th St. 12th Floor
New York, NY 10001
(212) 243-1636
Sounds like this is a great boat, but maybe somewhat specialized, a sort of
racing or rally machine? I can see filling it with a gang of sea cadets or
scouts and letting them go wild with it!
I have to differ on your point about the topping lifts. I use the topping
lift to keep the sail and boom *out* of my cockpit. That's my living space
and I much prefer to have it clear of sail and spars. The topping lift and
mainsheet alone give adequate control, but if the sail is going to be down
for a while, a couple of ropes to the quarters hold the boom rock steady.
(Then I also put a tie around the gaff and boom, up by the mast, so the
throat halyard can lift the whole affair up the mast a couple of feet.)
Jamie Orr
-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Vanderwaart [mailto:pvanderw@...]
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 11:18 AM
To:bolger@egroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Folding Schooner thoughts...
A few thoughts after one sail in a Bolger Folding Schooner:
1. This is not a good design for seekers of perfection. If you can't
stand a scratch in your paint, perhaps you should choose a different
design. Folding and unfolding is going to happen on the beach or in
the surf, and the boat is going to get dinged up. The bilge boards
and chines are going to scrape the bottom from time to time.
2. The ideal crew is probably four, two in each hull. The forehull
gets the jib trimmer and the foresail trimmer. The stern gets the
main trimmer and the helmsman. In addition, The folding and un-
folding operations are strenuous enough to use the efforts of 4
adults if available, although three is adequate. I wouldn't plan on
doing it routinely with two. (I'm a weakling.)
We sailed with three, but we had the jib tied off in a one-size-fits-
all position.
3. The helm is quite light and the rudder is very effective. It's a
fun boat to sail once you get used to the drag link tiller. I don't
see any reason to try to remove the bilge boards under sail. We only
had trouble tacking once, when the helmsman (me) wasn't careful.
Obviously, any very light boat can get hung in irons.
4. We had light winds with a few 'gusts' that could have gone up to
10 knots. In these light winds, we could have capsized the boat if
everything went wrong at once: gust + crew weight on the wrong side +
failure to ease the sails + failure to head into the wind. We had the
lee rail within a couple of inches of the water.
5. We had no trouble making progress to windward. We were not in
company with other boats and we didn't let ourselves get far
downwind, so we didn't really test windward ability. However,
moderate windward progress was easy to accomplish. We didn't try to
beat into the biggest waves we encountered
6. After a half-hour or so of sailing in the light breezes, the two
sheet-handlers were feeling a little tired from the pull of the
sheets. Having a pin to snub the sheet around would help a lot.
7. I am dubious about the topping lifts. When we wanted the sails
down, we wanted them down in the boat, not suspended above the
cockpit, blowing in the wind. I can't see motoring along with the
booms hanging from the topping lifts.
8. The boat is big and stable enough so that two or three crew
scrambling around at the dock doing rigging or unrigging are not
concerned about the boat tipping beneath them.
9. Off the wind in smooth water, she slides along with an
exhilarating WHOOOOOSH.....!
Peter
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing
- stay on topic
- use punctuation
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
- add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
racing or rally machine? I can see filling it with a gang of sea cadets or
scouts and letting them go wild with it!
I have to differ on your point about the topping lifts. I use the topping
lift to keep the sail and boom *out* of my cockpit. That's my living space
and I much prefer to have it clear of sail and spars. The topping lift and
mainsheet alone give adequate control, but if the sail is going to be down
for a while, a couple of ropes to the quarters hold the boom rock steady.
(Then I also put a tie around the gaff and boom, up by the mast, so the
throat halyard can lift the whole affair up the mast a couple of feet.)
Jamie Orr
-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Vanderwaart [mailto:pvanderw@...]
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 11:18 AM
To:bolger@egroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Folding Schooner thoughts...
A few thoughts after one sail in a Bolger Folding Schooner:
1. This is not a good design for seekers of perfection. If you can't
stand a scratch in your paint, perhaps you should choose a different
design. Folding and unfolding is going to happen on the beach or in
the surf, and the boat is going to get dinged up. The bilge boards
and chines are going to scrape the bottom from time to time.
2. The ideal crew is probably four, two in each hull. The forehull
gets the jib trimmer and the foresail trimmer. The stern gets the
main trimmer and the helmsman. In addition, The folding and un-
folding operations are strenuous enough to use the efforts of 4
adults if available, although three is adequate. I wouldn't plan on
doing it routinely with two. (I'm a weakling.)
We sailed with three, but we had the jib tied off in a one-size-fits-
all position.
3. The helm is quite light and the rudder is very effective. It's a
fun boat to sail once you get used to the drag link tiller. I don't
see any reason to try to remove the bilge boards under sail. We only
had trouble tacking once, when the helmsman (me) wasn't careful.
Obviously, any very light boat can get hung in irons.
4. We had light winds with a few 'gusts' that could have gone up to
10 knots. In these light winds, we could have capsized the boat if
everything went wrong at once: gust + crew weight on the wrong side +
failure to ease the sails + failure to head into the wind. We had the
lee rail within a couple of inches of the water.
5. We had no trouble making progress to windward. We were not in
company with other boats and we didn't let ourselves get far
downwind, so we didn't really test windward ability. However,
moderate windward progress was easy to accomplish. We didn't try to
beat into the biggest waves we encountered
6. After a half-hour or so of sailing in the light breezes, the two
sheet-handlers were feeling a little tired from the pull of the
sheets. Having a pin to snub the sheet around would help a lot.
7. I am dubious about the topping lifts. When we wanted the sails
down, we wanted them down in the boat, not suspended above the
cockpit, blowing in the wind. I can't see motoring along with the
booms hanging from the topping lifts.
8. The boat is big and stable enough so that two or three crew
scrambling around at the dock doing rigging or unrigging are not
concerned about the boat tipping beneath them.
9. Off the wind in smooth water, she slides along with an
exhilarating WHOOOOOSH.....!
Peter
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing
- stay on topic
- use punctuation
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
- add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
A few thoughts after one sail in a Bolger Folding Schooner:
1. This is not a good design for seekers of perfection. If you can't
stand a scratch in your paint, perhaps you should choose a different
design. Folding and unfolding is going to happen on the beach or in
the surf, and the boat is going to get dinged up. The bilge boards
and chines are going to scrape the bottom from time to time.
2. The ideal crew is probably four, two in each hull. The forehull
gets the jib trimmer and the foresail trimmer. The stern gets the
main trimmer and the helmsman. In addition, The folding and un-
folding operations are strenuous enough to use the efforts of 4
adults if available, although three is adequate. I wouldn't plan on
doing it routinely with two. (I'm a weakling.)
We sailed with three, but we had the jib tied off in a one-size-fits-
all position.
3. The helm is quite light and the rudder is very effective. It's a
fun boat to sail once you get used to the drag link tiller. I don't
see any reason to try to remove the bilge boards under sail. We only
had trouble tacking once, when the helmsman (me) wasn't careful.
Obviously, any very light boat can get hung in irons.
4. We had light winds with a few 'gusts' that could have gone up to
10 knots. In these light winds, we could have capsized the boat if
everything went wrong at once: gust + crew weight on the wrong side +
failure to ease the sails + failure to head into the wind. We had the
lee rail within a couple of inches of the water.
5. We had no trouble making progress to windward. We were not in
company with other boats and we didn't let ourselves get far
downwind, so we didn't really test windward ability. However,
moderate windward progress was easy to accomplish. We didn't try to
beat into the biggest waves we encountered
6. After a half-hour or so of sailing in the light breezes, the two
sheet-handlers were feeling a little tired from the pull of the
sheets. Having a pin to snub the sheet around would help a lot.
7. I am dubious about the topping lifts. When we wanted the sails
down, we wanted them down in the boat, not suspended above the
cockpit, blowing in the wind. I can't see motoring along with the
booms hanging from the topping lifts.
8. The boat is big and stable enough so that two or three crew
scrambling around at the dock doing rigging or unrigging are not
concerned about the boat tipping beneath them.
9. Off the wind in smooth water, she slides along with an
exhilarating WHOOOOOSH.....!
Peter
1. This is not a good design for seekers of perfection. If you can't
stand a scratch in your paint, perhaps you should choose a different
design. Folding and unfolding is going to happen on the beach or in
the surf, and the boat is going to get dinged up. The bilge boards
and chines are going to scrape the bottom from time to time.
2. The ideal crew is probably four, two in each hull. The forehull
gets the jib trimmer and the foresail trimmer. The stern gets the
main trimmer and the helmsman. In addition, The folding and un-
folding operations are strenuous enough to use the efforts of 4
adults if available, although three is adequate. I wouldn't plan on
doing it routinely with two. (I'm a weakling.)
We sailed with three, but we had the jib tied off in a one-size-fits-
all position.
3. The helm is quite light and the rudder is very effective. It's a
fun boat to sail once you get used to the drag link tiller. I don't
see any reason to try to remove the bilge boards under sail. We only
had trouble tacking once, when the helmsman (me) wasn't careful.
Obviously, any very light boat can get hung in irons.
4. We had light winds with a few 'gusts' that could have gone up to
10 knots. In these light winds, we could have capsized the boat if
everything went wrong at once: gust + crew weight on the wrong side +
failure to ease the sails + failure to head into the wind. We had the
lee rail within a couple of inches of the water.
5. We had no trouble making progress to windward. We were not in
company with other boats and we didn't let ourselves get far
downwind, so we didn't really test windward ability. However,
moderate windward progress was easy to accomplish. We didn't try to
beat into the biggest waves we encountered
6. After a half-hour or so of sailing in the light breezes, the two
sheet-handlers were feeling a little tired from the pull of the
sheets. Having a pin to snub the sheet around would help a lot.
7. I am dubious about the topping lifts. When we wanted the sails
down, we wanted them down in the boat, not suspended above the
cockpit, blowing in the wind. I can't see motoring along with the
booms hanging from the topping lifts.
8. The boat is big and stable enough so that two or three crew
scrambling around at the dock doing rigging or unrigging are not
concerned about the boat tipping beneath them.
9. Off the wind in smooth water, she slides along with an
exhilarating WHOOOOOSH.....!
Peter