[bolger] Re: Filler Question
FBBB --
Sags, bumps and drips are no match for a piece of Stanley surf form
blade if you get at them while still slightly soft (about like
candlewax.) If you work up through the grits from there as the resin
hardens you can get a pretty good finish without too much sweat or
swearing.
134 W.26th St. 12th Floor
New York, NY 10001
(212) 243-1636
Sags, bumps and drips are no match for a piece of Stanley surf form
blade if you get at them while still slightly soft (about like
candlewax.) If you work up through the grits from there as the resin
hardens you can get a pretty good finish without too much sweat or
swearing.
>Rich,CRUMBLING EMPIRE PRODUCTIONS
> I have built a boat using fiberglass window screen matierial and
>Bondo. the Cape Cod Frosty (all 6' of it) was designed to be off the
>shelf hardware store built, right up to the cedar closet pole used
>for the mast.
> In one race I actually had a commanding 10 boat (60 feet) lead on
>the pack and was on the last leg of the race when I noticed a trickle
>of water along the port bottom seam. Within a very short time, the
>leak became huge! Needless to say, I sank within five feet of the
>finish line in 38 degree water. Brrr......
> The moral of the story is, use either polyester or epoxy, but
>stay away from the talc based products, they don't work well with the
>stresses that will be placed on them.
> You can visit the Cape Cod Frosty Web site at
>http://members.aol.com/ccfrosty/index.htm
>
>Have fun,
>David Jost, Boston
>> --- Inbolger@egroups.com, "Rich Deming" <thedemings@n...> wrote:
>> > Hi All,
>> > Just finished glassing the outside of my Nymph. I used epoxy
>> instead
>> > of the originally planned polyester resin.
>> > Question is this...Can I use Bondo as a filler? Will it stick or
>> > should I use something else.
>> > A quick note about epoxy vs polyester: use epoxy if you can
>afford
>> > it. What a differance working with epoxy makes. Very little smell
>> and
>> > it seems like a longer pot life. Dries quick once it kicks. Still
>> > need to fine tune for sags.
>> > Any help with fillers would be appreciated. Sanding the runs out
>> > will get me close, but this hull has been waiting a year to be
>> > finished, so the least I can do is give her a nice finish.
>> > Thanks,
>> > Rich
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing
>- stay on topic
>- use punctuation
>- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
>- add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
134 W.26th St. 12th Floor
New York, NY 10001
(212) 243-1636
I second the motion on the squeege. Smooth finish and feathered edges.
Just rememeber to do it just as the epoxy is starting to set up; better too
soon than waiting until it gets ahead of you.
Jim C.
Just rememeber to do it just as the epoxy is starting to set up; better too
soon than waiting until it gets ahead of you.
Jim C.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Orr, Jamie [mailto:jorr@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 7:59 AM
> To: 'bolger@egroups.com'
> Subject: RE: [bolger] Filler Question
>
>
> Rich
>
> To avoid (or at least dramatically reduce) runs -- try using a squeegee to
> apply the epoxy and then to take the excess off. You can get a special
> purpose rubber one from epoxy suppliers or use a cheaper plastic auto body
> type -- which is reusable as the cured epoxy will come off it easily.
>
> Canoecraft by Ted Moores is about the best manual I've seen on
> how to get a
> smooth finish on your epoxy/glass sheathing.
>
> Jamie Orr
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rich Deming [mailto:thedemings@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 5:33 PM
> To:bolger@egroups.com
> Subject: [bolger] Filler Question
>
>
> Hi All,
> Just finished glassing the outside of my Nymph. I used epoxy instead
> of the originally planned polyester resin.
> Question is this...Can I use Bondo as a filler? Will it stick or
> should I use something else.
> A quick note about epoxy vs polyester: use epoxy if you can afford
> it. What a differance working with epoxy makes. Very little smell and
> it seems like a longer pot life. Dries quick once it kicks. Still
> need to fine tune for sags.
> Any help with fillers would be appreciated. Sanding the runs out
> will get me close, but this hull has been waiting a year to be
> finished, so the least I can do is give her a nice finish.
> Thanks,
> Rich
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing
> - stay on topic
> - use punctuation
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing
> - stay on topic
> - use punctuation
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
>
Rich,
I have built a boat using fiberglass window screen matierial and
Bondo. the Cape Cod Frosty (all 6' of it) was designed to be off the
shelf hardware store built, right up to the cedar closet pole used
for the mast.
In one race I actually had a commanding 10 boat (60 feet) lead on
the pack and was on the last leg of the race when I noticed a trickle
of water along the port bottom seam. Within a very short time, the
leak became huge! Needless to say, I sank within five feet of the
finish line in 38 degree water. Brrr......
The moral of the story is, use either polyester or epoxy, but
stay away from the talc based products, they don't work well with the
stresses that will be placed on them.
You can visit the Cape Cod Frosty Web site at
http://members.aol.com/ccfrosty/index.htm
Have fun,
David Jost, Boston
I have built a boat using fiberglass window screen matierial and
Bondo. the Cape Cod Frosty (all 6' of it) was designed to be off the
shelf hardware store built, right up to the cedar closet pole used
for the mast.
In one race I actually had a commanding 10 boat (60 feet) lead on
the pack and was on the last leg of the race when I noticed a trickle
of water along the port bottom seam. Within a very short time, the
leak became huge! Needless to say, I sank within five feet of the
finish line in 38 degree water. Brrr......
The moral of the story is, use either polyester or epoxy, but
stay away from the talc based products, they don't work well with the
stresses that will be placed on them.
You can visit the Cape Cod Frosty Web site at
http://members.aol.com/ccfrosty/index.htm
Have fun,
David Jost, Boston
> --- Inbolger@egroups.com, "Rich Deming" <thedemings@n...> wrote:afford
> > Hi All,
> > Just finished glassing the outside of my Nymph. I used epoxy
> instead
> > of the originally planned polyester resin.
> > Question is this...Can I use Bondo as a filler? Will it stick or
> > should I use something else.
> > A quick note about epoxy vs polyester: use epoxy if you can
> > it. What a differance working with epoxy makes. Very little smell
> and
> > it seems like a longer pot life. Dries quick once it kicks. Still
> > need to fine tune for sags.
> > Any help with fillers would be appreciated. Sanding the runs out
> > will get me close, but this hull has been waiting a year to be
> > finished, so the least I can do is give her a nice finish.
> > Thanks,
> > Rich
> RichSo they say. It sure sticks to the ones I buy from HD. Avoid the problem by
>
> To avoid (or at least dramatically reduce) runs -- try using a squeegee to
> apply the epoxy and then to take the excess off. You can get a special
> purpose rubber one from epoxy suppliers or use a cheaper plastic auto body
> type -- which is reusable as the cured epoxy will come off it easily.
>
wiping the blade off with a paper towel after use.
Rich
To avoid (or at least dramatically reduce) runs -- try using a squeegee to
apply the epoxy and then to take the excess off. You can get a special
purpose rubber one from epoxy suppliers or use a cheaper plastic auto body
type -- which is reusable as the cured epoxy will come off it easily.
Canoecraft by Ted Moores is about the best manual I've seen on how to get a
smooth finish on your epoxy/glass sheathing.
Jamie Orr
-----Original Message-----
From: Rich Deming [mailto:thedemings@...]
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 5:33 PM
To:bolger@egroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Filler Question
Hi All,
Just finished glassing the outside of my Nymph. I used epoxy instead
of the originally planned polyester resin.
Question is this...Can I use Bondo as a filler? Will it stick or
should I use something else.
A quick note about epoxy vs polyester: use epoxy if you can afford
it. What a differance working with epoxy makes. Very little smell and
it seems like a longer pot life. Dries quick once it kicks. Still
need to fine tune for sags.
Any help with fillers would be appreciated. Sanding the runs out
will get me close, but this hull has been waiting a year to be
finished, so the least I can do is give her a nice finish.
Thanks,
Rich
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing
- stay on topic
- use punctuation
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
- add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
To avoid (or at least dramatically reduce) runs -- try using a squeegee to
apply the epoxy and then to take the excess off. You can get a special
purpose rubber one from epoxy suppliers or use a cheaper plastic auto body
type -- which is reusable as the cured epoxy will come off it easily.
Canoecraft by Ted Moores is about the best manual I've seen on how to get a
smooth finish on your epoxy/glass sheathing.
Jamie Orr
-----Original Message-----
From: Rich Deming [mailto:thedemings@...]
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 5:33 PM
To:bolger@egroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Filler Question
Hi All,
Just finished glassing the outside of my Nymph. I used epoxy instead
of the originally planned polyester resin.
Question is this...Can I use Bondo as a filler? Will it stick or
should I use something else.
A quick note about epoxy vs polyester: use epoxy if you can afford
it. What a differance working with epoxy makes. Very little smell and
it seems like a longer pot life. Dries quick once it kicks. Still
need to fine tune for sags.
Any help with fillers would be appreciated. Sanding the runs out
will get me close, but this hull has been waiting a year to be
finished, so the least I can do is give her a nice finish.
Thanks,
Rich
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing
- stay on topic
- use punctuation
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
- add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
Rich, I never had problems with epoxy. The only minor thing was a
feeling of nausea after 8 (eighth) hours of work on my first boat,
when I used a total of maybe 2 liters of epoxy in one afternoon to
tape (3 layers) the keel inside, including the deep fillet. However
it might easily have been due to the temperature in my shop (27 degs
C) and to enormous amount of sweat: that night I felt really groggy.
That's why I'm not so fond of stitch and glue...
Regarding fillers, I use Aerosil for gluing, and a mixture of Aerosil
an glass microspheres for filleting and fairing. I find that the
proportions given in System Three Epoxy Book work fine for my resin.
Best, Pippo
feeling of nausea after 8 (eighth) hours of work on my first boat,
when I used a total of maybe 2 liters of epoxy in one afternoon to
tape (3 layers) the keel inside, including the deep fillet. However
it might easily have been due to the temperature in my shop (27 degs
C) and to enormous amount of sweat: that night I felt really groggy.
That's why I'm not so fond of stitch and glue...
Regarding fillers, I use Aerosil for gluing, and a mixture of Aerosil
an glass microspheres for filleting and fairing. I find that the
proportions given in System Three Epoxy Book work fine for my resin.
Best, Pippo
--- Inbolger@egroups.com, "Rich Deming" <thedemings@n...> wrote:
> Hi All,
> Just finished glassing the outside of my Nymph. I used epoxy
instead
> of the originally planned polyester resin.
> Question is this...Can I use Bondo as a filler? Will it stick or
> should I use something else.
> A quick note about epoxy vs polyester: use epoxy if you can afford
> it. What a differance working with epoxy makes. Very little smell
and
> it seems like a longer pot life. Dries quick once it kicks. Still
> need to fine tune for sags.
> Any help with fillers would be appreciated. Sanding the runs out
> will get me close, but this hull has been waiting a year to be
> finished, so the least I can do is give her a nice finish.
> Thanks,
> Rich
>I was just wondering did you have any hang over withNo hang over. Do you wear a respirator when applying. May help, but I
> the epoxie.
am still not really sure of how much. I didn't use one and only used
a paper mask while sanding after it is cured. Everything was done
outside and I took a shower when finished. It has been suggested to
invest in a good resirator when painting, so maybe while applying
epoxy might not be a bad idea either. I have another dozen or so
boats I want to build so this is no time for allergic reactions :-) I
will invest in one now.
BTW..I used talc for the fillets so I guess I can mix up a batch for
fairing. Thanks to all with help on this. (darn rookies!)
Go Mets!
Rich Deming
in Sunny Florida
Use phenolic microballons and epoxy as a filler for fairing. www.raka.com
Or talc, or in a pinch, wheat flour.
For abrasion armoring, use cement or limestone.
And obviously, for structural fillets, use wood flour. Or glass fibers.
To help with runs you might try some fumed silica. I tried some wheat flour
to help prevent runs. I prevented most of the runs, but didn't cure smooth.
It pulled away from itself and gave an odd bumpy surface...
To answer the other question. Epoxy puts out very few fumes. Generaly people
don't get a headache or "hang over" from using epoxy, even without
ventilation. Keep it off your skin though, you will eventualy develope a
sensitivity to it and get rashes if you don't wear gloves.
Now, fumes. Interlux barrier coat 404/414 primer with Interlux 2333 thiner!
THOSE are some fumes. Doors on both ends of the shop open, wind and fan
going full blast, still had a headache for hours.
$37 for an organic vapor filter at HD well worth the price!
Or talc, or in a pinch, wheat flour.
For abrasion armoring, use cement or limestone.
And obviously, for structural fillets, use wood flour. Or glass fibers.
To help with runs you might try some fumed silica. I tried some wheat flour
to help prevent runs. I prevented most of the runs, but didn't cure smooth.
It pulled away from itself and gave an odd bumpy surface...
To answer the other question. Epoxy puts out very few fumes. Generaly people
don't get a headache or "hang over" from using epoxy, even without
ventilation. Keep it off your skin though, you will eventualy develope a
sensitivity to it and get rashes if you don't wear gloves.
Now, fumes. Interlux barrier coat 404/414 primer with Interlux 2333 thiner!
THOSE are some fumes. Doors on both ends of the shop open, wind and fan
going full blast, still had a headache for hours.
$37 for an organic vapor filter at HD well worth the price!
----- Original Message -----
From: <freedem@...>
To: <bolger@egroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 11:19 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Filler Question
> Rich
> Its sounds good I was just wondering did you have any hang over with
> the epoxie. I used gluvit and don't think I'm sensitive but I felt
> like I'd been hit in the back of the head with a hammer for about
> three days
> Thankyou for any info
> Jeffery
>
>
> --- Inbolger@egroups.com, "Rich Deming" <thedemings@n...> wrote:
> > Hi All,
> > Just finished glassing the outside of my Nymph. I used epoxy
> instead
> > of the originally planned polyester resin.
> > Question is this...Can I use Bondo as a filler? Will it stick or
> > should I use something else.
> > A quick note about epoxy vs polyester: use epoxy if you can afford
> > it. What a differance working with epoxy makes. Very little smell
> and
> > it seems like a longer pot life. Dries quick once it kicks. Still
> > need to fine tune for sags.
> > Any help with fillers would be appreciated. Sanding the runs out
> > will get me close, but this hull has been waiting a year to be
> > finished, so the least I can do is give her a nice finish.
> > Thanks,
> >
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing
> - stay on topic
> - use punctuation
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
>
Rich
Its sounds good I was just wondering did you have any hang over with
the epoxie. I used gluvit and don't think I'm sensitive but I felt
like I'd been hit in the back of the head with a hammer for about
three days
Thankyou for any info
Jeffery
Its sounds good I was just wondering did you have any hang over with
the epoxie. I used gluvit and don't think I'm sensitive but I felt
like I'd been hit in the back of the head with a hammer for about
three days
Thankyou for any info
Jeffery
--- Inbolger@egroups.com, "Rich Deming" <thedemings@n...> wrote:
> Hi All,
> Just finished glassing the outside of my Nymph. I used epoxy
instead
> of the originally planned polyester resin.
> Question is this...Can I use Bondo as a filler? Will it stick or
> should I use something else.
> A quick note about epoxy vs polyester: use epoxy if you can afford
> it. What a differance working with epoxy makes. Very little smell
and
> it seems like a longer pot life. Dries quick once it kicks. Still
> need to fine tune for sags.
> Any help with fillers would be appreciated. Sanding the runs out
> will get me close, but this hull has been waiting a year to be
> finished, so the least I can do is give her a nice finish.
> Thanks,
>
Rich,
With regard to sags or runs, anything you can do to orient the surface
you are coating so that it is horizontal really helps, even if it means
you have to chock up the boat differently for each surface. The other
thing I have found very helpful is to scrape off any high spots or runs
with a wide, sharp, paint scraper as soon as possible after the epoxy
reaches a non-tacky state.
re: fillers, I have been using fumed silica from Raka because I wanted
a really hard, tough, waterproof surface. That is all the more reason
to scrape first while the epoxy is green, because silica is really
difficult to sand once it is fully cured. For filling low spots I use
phenolic microballons because it can be troweled to a feather edge, and
is fairly easy to sand. The purple color makes it easy to locate later
the place where you have applied it.
Vince Chew
With regard to sags or runs, anything you can do to orient the surface
you are coating so that it is horizontal really helps, even if it means
you have to chock up the boat differently for each surface. The other
thing I have found very helpful is to scrape off any high spots or runs
with a wide, sharp, paint scraper as soon as possible after the epoxy
reaches a non-tacky state.
re: fillers, I have been using fumed silica from Raka because I wanted
a really hard, tough, waterproof surface. That is all the more reason
to scrape first while the epoxy is green, because silica is really
difficult to sand once it is fully cured. For filling low spots I use
phenolic microballons because it can be troweled to a feather edge, and
is fairly easy to sand. The purple color makes it easy to locate later
the place where you have applied it.
Vince Chew
--- Inbolger@egroups.com, "Rich Deming" <thedemings@n...> wrote:
Dries quick once it kicks. Still
> need to fine tune for sags.
> Any help with fillers would be appreciated. Sanding the runs out
> will get me close, but this hull has been waiting a year to be
> finished, so the least I can do is give her a nice finish.
> Thanks,
> Rich
Hi All,
Just finished glassing the outside of my Nymph. I used epoxy instead
of the originally planned polyester resin.
Question is this...Can I use Bondo as a filler? Will it stick or
should I use something else.
A quick note about epoxy vs polyester: use epoxy if you can afford
it. What a differance working with epoxy makes. Very little smell and
it seems like a longer pot life. Dries quick once it kicks. Still
need to fine tune for sags.
Any help with fillers would be appreciated. Sanding the runs out
will get me close, but this hull has been waiting a year to be
finished, so the least I can do is give her a nice finish.
Thanks,
Rich
Just finished glassing the outside of my Nymph. I used epoxy instead
of the originally planned polyester resin.
Question is this...Can I use Bondo as a filler? Will it stick or
should I use something else.
A quick note about epoxy vs polyester: use epoxy if you can afford
it. What a differance working with epoxy makes. Very little smell and
it seems like a longer pot life. Dries quick once it kicks. Still
need to fine tune for sags.
Any help with fillers would be appreciated. Sanding the runs out
will get me close, but this hull has been waiting a year to be
finished, so the least I can do is give her a nice finish.
Thanks,
Rich