Re: [bolger] AS 29
Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone
--- Original Message ---
From: Rod Symington <rodsymington@...>
Sent: September 1, 2012 9/1/12
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] AS 29
Mizzen boomkin: 8 ft overall; 1 1/2 inches diameter at each end; 2 1/2 inches diameter @ 2ft 5 inches from forward end.
Sheet from end of sprit to block at end of boomkin, back to cockpit.
Rod
From: George <gbroadlick@...>;
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>;
Subject: [bolger] AS 29
Sent: Sat, Sep 1, 2012 1:38:29 PM
I hope to launch the first built AS 29 next weekend. The boat is in North Carolina and i am in Indiana. Hoping to make it to the OBX130. I do not remember seeing the boomkin for the mizzen on the boat and i do not have a set of plans. Does anyone know how it is rigged and how long it is?
TODAY(Beta) • Powered by Yahoo!Grilling mistakes that amateurs make
Get Yahoo Search App! • Privacy Policy
Mizzen boomkin: 8 ft overall; 1 1/2 inches diameter at each end; 2 1/2 inches diameter @ 2ft 5 inches from forward end. Sheet from end of sprit to block at end of boomkin, back to cockpit. Rod |
From:George <gbroadlick@...>;
To:<bolger@yahoogroups.com>;
Subject:[bolger] AS 29
Sent:Sat, Sep 1, 2012 1:38:29 PM
| I hope to launch the first built AS 29 next weekend. The boat is in North Carolina and i am in Indiana. Hoping to make it to the OBX130. I do not remember seeing the boomkin for the mizzen on the boat and i do not have a set of plans. Does anyone know how it is rigged and how long it is? |
centrifugal pump applications, the overrate of piston engines has
nothing to do with efficiency. It is done because piston engines have
terrible stall torque characteristics. The electric motor makes its
highest torque at 0 rpm. It still uses very high amps to do it.
V/R
Chris
On Fri, 2011-01-07 at 16:57 +0000, tdsoren wrote:
> Hi folks, new member and first time post.
>
> Has anybody tried a Torqeedo electric?
>http://www.torqeedo.com/us/hn/home.html
>
> As has been stated, the trick is a big, slow turning prop for highest efficiency/minimum slip. this is why diesels are so well suited to vessels running at hull speed. Electric motors develop extrmely high torque at very low RPM, making them the perfect low speed motor. I beleive 1hp electric is worth something like 12 gas h.p. (I might be a bit off in my memory on this).
>
> I've long considered a hybrid with a smnall on board generator and a substantial battery bank. you could charge off of shore power or solar cells for the most part, but have the genset handy if caught way out.
>
> Tom
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Fred Schumacher <fredschum@...> wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 6:50 AM, Michael Wagner <willers32@...> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > By far the best engine for the AS-29 is the Yamaha 9.9 High Thrust.
> > >
> >
> > I've thought that a light weight, vertical shaft, air-cooled diesel, like
> > the Hatz B30V, mounted onto a high thrust lower unit would make a nice rig.
> > Then you wouldn't have to deal with the high volatility of gasoline.
> >
> > fred s.
> >
> You need more propeller diameter and less horsepower.Let me share my experience with a "normal" inboard installation. It might suggest what's possible.
> Happiest might be a YAMAHA T-25 to push her at moderate rpm
> via 12+" diameter prop.
My boat is a Hunter 28 with a 2-cyl Yanmar inboard. When I bought it, it had a fixed 2-blade prop. I wanted to change to a folding propeller. A friend happened to have one from a similar size boat.
Eventually, I got along to someone who knew what he was talking about at AB Marine, Inc. in Rhode Island. He had a computer program that could tell me 1) the best diameter and pitch, and 2) how much I would lose in performance and efficiency if I used my friend's propeller. I bought the propeller he recommended. It gives me a half knot or more at cruising RPM compared to the original. Needless to say, it's also much better under sail.
The point is that "best" propeller depends on fairly large number of variables: the length and weight of the boat, the desired shaft RPM at cruise, and the HP that the engine can produce at that RPM. It pays not guess. There are people who can work out the right answer, and it pays to find them.
If you would like an amusing story on this topic, find Weston Farmer's book "From My Old Boatshop". He as a chapter on the time he was working for Elco and ran boats up and down the bay ad nauseum with different propellers and at different speeds. I believe he includes some charts, but whether they cover the parameters interested in here, I cannot say.
I sure would not want less 'traction'/relative responsiveness in confused high-current water such as through our cut-bridge at max tidal out-flow. In close quarters at slow speeds, the relative 'bite' is unarguably desirable in precise maneuvering.
So, bigger props do plane...
Note the T-50/60 on AS-34. A 14" prop is not that much for a craft of that size/weight.
We have many times wished for a 3.5-4:1 lower unit gearing (versus max 2.3:1 now) on those sub 1-liter 50-60HP 4 cylinders to spec on midsize sailing-ruisers and many power-cruisers. I hope to make progress with YAMAHA or HONDA to get 16"-17" props. The complex powerhead remains untouched and would receive a meatier (geared-down) lower unit off (likely) 120HP types and thus would require stouter motor-mount.
These units would with few exception be used as dedicated displacement-speed units, hopefully with a 75+amp alternator. They could become medium-duty prime-power for a lot of hulls fit for increasing energy-costs.
And eventually YANMAR might figure the obvious and re-offer their late80s-mid90s era 27/34 HP diesel outboards but this time with big wheels, ie. at least 14" if not larger for superior utility and operational economies. And then offer 50 and 75HP to cover a larger spectrum of hulls.
Note HONDA's new BFP-50 with 14"wheel and 2x 50-degree steering.
Why don't you folks campaign across various fora for this and make calls to the central manufacturer rep. Local dealer & regional reps won't get you to the right folks. This needs doing.
----- Original Message -----From:Mark AlbaneseSent:Saturday, January 08, 2011 2:54 AMSubject:[bolger] Re: AS 29Those are crude by American standards, yet very attractive. Nice find.I don't understand why HT motors aren't actually better for planing too. In the article glossing Hickman's Viper, there are "muscular horses" with lower speeds and larger props that plane the boat.If it's thrust that's applied at the back end, why isn't more of it just better? What's the advantage of faster spinning props?Here's a clip from 30-Odd Boats" I've sometimes wondered if we weren't overlooking the possibilities of large-diameter, slow turning props with high pitch ratios. In theory they're inefficient on account of excessive blade area, but it's possible that they would show good efficiency in practice. I've read that some replicas of 1910 airplanes have flown badly or not at all, apparently because modern engines can't swing the original large propellers. Since this seems to puzzle aeronautical engineers, perhaps naval architects might get a similar surprise."On Jan 7, 2011, at 1:29 PM, Bruce Hallman wrote:__._So many of the western outboards are for recreational purposes, high
speed planing the bass boat, etc.. Looking to China, I see many
"workboat" high thrust outboards.
I especially like the belt drive unit, which could be fixed up with a
$150 lawn mower engine.
http://www.nbhogj.com/upload/uploaddata/201004061134385922.jpg
http://www.nbhogj.com/en/products_view.asp?News_Id=14
http://www.cn-yx.com/products-en.htm
So many of the western outboards are for recreational purposes, high
speed planing the bass boat, etc.. Looking to China, I see many
"workboat" high thrust outboards.
I especially like the belt drive unit, which could be fixed up with a
$150 lawn mower engine.
http://www.nbhogj.com/upload/uploaddata/201004061134385922.jpg
http://www.nbhogj.com/en/products_view.asp?News_Id=14
http://www.cn-yx.com/products-en.htm__._
I agree with Michael that the 9.9 with HT prop is the correct size and type for the AS 29. With the Yamaha 9.9 XLS/HT and a clean bottom, my AS 29 'Zoella' gets about 6.3 knots max, and mileage for many years now has been consistently ~12 statute MPG at six knots. Consider the 8 HP Yamaha XLS/HT or 6/8 HP Tohatsu XLS/HT engines to save a few bucks if necessary.
Suggest you pass over the 35 HP 2-stroke, despite the price. You might get away with it on a temporary basis, but it will be poorly geared and propped for a non-planing boat, will have poor submersion with very little thrust in reverse, and you will burn fuel at an astounding rate.
@ Susanne: I think 'Zoella' is either the third or fourth AS 29 launched (1993). 'Woodwind' is #1. All the early AS 29's tended to trim bow-down when loaded for cruising, and if I remember correctly Phil suggested to later builders that they move the ballast aft a little. I think the culprit is that the foam flotation under the main bunk forces one to stow heavy items farther forwards. Loaded for cruising, Zoella trims level with the Yamaha 9.9, two anchors & chain aft, about 100 pounds of tools stowed aft of the bunk, ~300 books on the bookshelves aft, me in the cockpit, and about 18 gallons of gasoline in the (aft) tanks. It's unlikely there will be any problem with too much weight on the stern of an early AS 29, unless it has been modified as Phil suggested by moving the ballast farther aft.
RE: Torqeedo: I think as a practical matter these are too low-powered for a boat the size (and wind resistance) of an AS 29, and will not drive into a chop or headwind with any authority. One of the great things about the AS 29 is the ultra-shoal draft, which lets you get into all sorts of places you never thought possible, and into secure anchorages nobody else can use. Generally you need an engine to do this, as your bilgeboards will be raised. Too small an engine closes these off to you in all but calm weather.
John Dalziel
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Michael Wagner <willers32@...> wrote:
>
> By far the best engine for the AS-29 is the Yamaha 9.9 High Thrust. Yamaha will not sell you this engine unless it is installed by one of their authorized dealers. Another good choice is the Suzuki 9.9 High Thrust, which you can install yourself.
...
Joe T
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "tdsoren" <tdsoren@...> wrote:
>
> Hi folks, new member and first time post.
>
> Has anybody tried a Torqeedo electric?
>http://www.torqeedo.com/us/hn/home.html
>
>
speed planing the bass boat, etc.. Looking to China, I see many
"workboat" high thrust outboards.
I especially like the belt drive unit, which could be fixed up with a
$150 lawn mower engine.
http://www.nbhogj.com/upload/uploaddata/201004061134385922.jpg
http://www.nbhogj.com/en/products_view.asp?News_Id=14
http://www.cn-yx.com/products-en.htm
Bob
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Susanne@..." <philbolger@...> wrote:
>
> Youn need more propeller diameter and less horsepower. Happiest might be a YAMAHA T-25 to push her at moderate rpm via 12+" diameter prop. Challenge might be finding an affordable used one. Balance any weight issues with a few more feet of chain forward.
> Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Mark Hamill
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 3:56 PM
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: AS 29
>
>
>
>
> I tried a 25 hp Mercury OB on my sailing catamaran to see how it would work as compared to the original 10 hp Honda and found there was quite a difference in fuel consumption--went back to the 10 hp.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Peter
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 9:32 AM
> Subject: [bolger] Re: AS 29
>
>
>
> > I also have no feel for how many hp i need.
>
> This is a bit of a tricky area because some sailors are happy with enough hp to glide across a quiet anchorage and others want to do hull speed upwind into a gale. Different installations and propeller vary in efficiency. So, take what I'm about to say with grain of salt.
>
> A rule of thumb is 4hp per ton. I found that a 5hp ob was fine for a sloop weighing about one long ton. My present boat is a bit less than 4 short tons, and is fine with a two cyl Yanmar that is about 16-18 hp. (There are different ratings for peak, long term, etc.) So my experience agrees. I know Hunter put the same Yanmar in a boat weighing over 5 tons, and I think it must be a bit underpowered.
>
> So your 32hp ob should be fine. I can't advise on whether the installation needs reinforcement.
>
> Has anybody tried a Torqeedo electric?A friend used one on a Bristol Corinthian. That's similar to the Alberg Typhoon, and weights about 1000 lbs. He found it satisfactory. I don't suggest that makes it workable for an AS-29, which is much bigger and heavier.
>http://www.torqeedo.com/us/hn/home.html
> Has anybody tried a Torqeedo electric?A friend used one on a Bristol Corinthian. That's similar to the Alberg Typhoon, and weights about 1000 lbs. He found it satisfactory. I don't suggest that makes it workable for an AS-29, which is much bigger and heavier.
>http://www.torqeedo.com/us/hn/home.html
----- Original Message -----From:tdsorenSent:Friday, January 07, 2011 11:57 AMSubject:[bolger] Re: AS 29Hi folks, new member and first time post.
Has anybody tried a Torqeedo electric?
http://www.torqeedo.com/us/hn/home.html
As has been stated, the trick is a big, slow turning prop for highest efficiency/minimum slip. this is why diesels are so well suited to vessels running at hull speed. Electric motors develop extrmely high torque at very low RPM, making them the perfect low speed motor. I beleive 1hp electric is worth something like 12 gas h.p. (I might be a bit off in my memory on this).
I've long considered a hybrid with a smnall on board generator and a substantial battery bank. you could charge off of shore power or solar cells for the most part, but have the genset handy if caught way out.
Tom
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Fred Schumacher <fredschum@...> wrote:
>
> On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 6:50 AM, Michael Wagner <willers32@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > By far the best engine for the AS-29 is the Yamaha 9.9 High Thrust.
> >
>
> I've thought that a light weight, vertical shaft, air-cooled diesel, like
> the Hatz B30V, mounted onto a high thrust lower unit would make a nice rig.
> Then you wouldn't have to deal with the high volatility of gasoline.
>
> fred s.
>
Has anybody tried a Torqeedo electric?
http://www.torqeedo.com/us/hn/home.html
As has been stated, the trick is a big, slow turning prop for highest efficiency/minimum slip. this is why diesels are so well suited to vessels running at hull speed. Electric motors develop extrmely high torque at very low RPM, making them the perfect low speed motor. I beleive 1hp electric is worth something like 12 gas h.p. (I might be a bit off in my memory on this).
I've long considered a hybrid with a smnall on board generator and a substantial battery bank. you could charge off of shore power or solar cells for the most part, but have the genset handy if caught way out.
Tom
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Fred Schumacher <fredschum@...> wrote:
>
> On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 6:50 AM, Michael Wagner <willers32@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > By far the best engine for the AS-29 is the Yamaha 9.9 High Thrust.
> >
>
> I've thought that a light weight, vertical shaft, air-cooled diesel, like
> the Hatz B30V, mounted onto a high thrust lower unit would make a nice rig.
> Then you wouldn't have to deal with the high volatility of gasoline.
>
> fred s.
>
On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 6:50 AM, Michael Wagner<willers32@...>wrote:
By far the best engine for the AS-29 is the Yamaha 9.9 High Thrust.
I've thought that a light weight, vertical shaft, air-cooled diesel, like the Hatz B30V, mounted onto a high thrust lower unit would make a nice rig. Then you wouldn't have to deal with the high volatility of gasoline.
fred s.
| By far the best engine for the AS-29 is the Yamaha 9.9 High Thrust. Yamaha will not sell you this engine unless it is installed by one of their authorized dealers. Another good choice is the Suzuki 9.9 High Thrust, which you can install yourself. Our 29 presently has a Suzuki 9.9 HT and it pushes the boat at hull speed at about 3/4 throttle. We got the remote control, power tilt model and it is great. Price new will be around $2000 but well worth it. You must make sure you get a true "High Thrust" model. The HT engines come with larger props and are designed to turn the prop at lower RPM. Standard outboards are designed to push light weight boats at high speed, HT models are for heavier boats (like sailboats) at lower speed. As Susanne pointed out, you don't need HP, you need thrust which comes from prop size, not HP. All outboards for sale in the US are now 4 stroke which are heavier than Bolger designed for the AS-29. He specified a max weight of 75 lbs, and a 4 stroke is going to weigh in at 100 to 120. You should be able to shift gear around inside or stow more anchor chain forward to balance. Our 29 balances perfectly on her lines with a 120 lb. engine. We beefed up the engine mounting bracket to take the extra weight. We've been very pleased with out Suzuki. It has proven reliable and has the added bonus of a 12 amp alternator to help the batteries. (Don't try to rely on it as your ONLY means of charging. We use solar and wind power for that.) |
i know the 35 is bigger than i need but i can pick one up for $550. There isnt much water to push with the boat. The wind is the biggest issue. I would just hang the 2 hp honda on her but i would need someone to sit with the motor to opperate. It is a long way down from the deck to the motor. MJ will spend the year in a slip at home for my daily sailing fix, or on the trailer headed to the texas 200, OBX or wherever. --- OnThu, 1/6/11, Harry James<welshman@...>wrote:
|
HJ
On 1/6/2011 8:32 AM, Peter wrote:
>> I also have no feel for how many hp i need.
> This is a bit of a tricky area because some sailors are happy with enough hp to glide across a quiet anchorage and others want to do hull speed upwind into a gale. Different installations and propeller vary in efficiency. So, take what I'm about to say with grain of salt.
>
> A rule of thumb is 4hp per ton. I found that a 5hp ob was fine for a sloop weighing about one long ton. My present boat is a bit less than 4 short tons, and is fine with a two cyl Yanmar that is about 16-18 hp. (There are different ratings for peak, long term, etc.) So my experience agrees. I know Hunter put the same Yanmar in a boat weighing over 5 tons, and I think it must be a bit underpowered.
>
> So your 32hp ob should be fine. I can't advise on whether the installation needs reinforcement.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
George -- 35 HP is way overkill, to answer your question on the mount I
would suggest looking at what is considered a proper mount for the 35 in
the powerboat world.
Do you have any pics of the current mount and its bracing?
HJ
On 1/6/2011 8:24 AM, Bruce Hallman wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 8:57 AM, George<gbroadlick@...> wrote:
>> I purchased an AS-29. The motor is a long way from the cockpit. I believe an outboard with remote controls and perhaps remote stearing and tilt would make her a much better boat to dock and motor. I found a 35 hp 2 stroke merc. She is lighter than a 4 stroke 9.9 but i am wondering if the extra hp will be a problem. I dont want to break the tramsom mount. I also have no feel for how many hp i need. My Martha Jane will overwelm my honda 2hp 4 stroke in a wind over 25. I dont think i would ever need 35 hp and dont want to break anything with unintended reving of the engine. Any thoughts?
>
>> Any thoughts?
> Yes, George Broadlick bought an AS-29 !?!?!? OMG! OMFG!
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
Nothing bigger than 15HP for sure... That said the real important part is the size and pitch of the prop. Get the biggest prop available and one pitched for slow speeds /displacement boat.
Bob
http://boatbits.blogspot.com/
http://fishingundersail.blogspot.com/
http://islandgourmand.blogspot.com/
Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
----- Original Message -----From:Mark HamillSent:Thursday, January 06, 2011 3:56 PMSubject:Re: [bolger] Re: AS 29I tried a 25 hp Mercury OB on my sailing catamaran to see how it would work as compared to the original 10 hp Honda and found there was quite a difference in fuel consumption--went back to the 10 hp.----- Original Message -----From:PeterSent:Thursday, January 06, 2011 9:32 AMSubject:[bolger] Re: AS 29> I also have no feel for how many hp i need.
This is a bit of a tricky area because some sailors are happy with enough hp to glide across a quiet anchorage and others want to do hull speed upwind into a gale. Different installations and propeller vary in efficiency. So, take what I'm about to say with grain of salt.
A rule of thumb is 4hp per ton. I found that a 5hp ob was fine for a sloop weighing about one long ton. My present boat is a bit less than 4 short tons, and is fine with a two cyl Yanmar that is about 16-18 hp. (There are different ratings for peak, long term, etc.) So my experience agrees. I know Hunter put the same Yanmar in a boat weighing over 5 tons, and I think it must be a bit underpowered.
So your 32hp ob should be fine. I can't advise on whether the installation needs reinforcement.
----- Original Message -----From:PeterSent:Thursday, January 06, 2011 9:32 AMSubject:[bolger] Re: AS 29> I also have no feel for how many hp i need.
This is a bit of a tricky area because some sailors are happy with enough hp to glide across a quiet anchorage and others want to do hull speed upwind into a gale. Different installations and propeller vary in efficiency. So, take what I'm about to say with grain of salt.
A rule of thumb is 4hp per ton. I found that a 5hp ob was fine for a sloop weighing about one long ton. My present boat is a bit less than 4 short tons, and is fine with a two cyl Yanmar that is about 16-18 hp. (There are different ratings for peak, long term, etc.) So my experience agrees. I know Hunter put the same Yanmar in a boat weighing over 5 tons, and I think it must be a bit underpowered.
So your 32hp ob should be fine. I can't advise on whether the installation needs reinforcement.
: ) thanks Bruce, lots of dreaming happening here. She is the original prototype Woodwind. Owned by Dan Farmer and built by Rob DeMatteo. If anyone knows how to get ahold of either of them i would like to talk to them about the boat.--- OnThu, 1/6/11, Bruce Hallman<hallman@...>wrote: |
> I also have no feel for how many hp i need.This is a bit of a tricky area because some sailors are happy with enough hp to glide across a quiet anchorage and others want to do hull speed upwind into a gale. Different installations and propeller vary in efficiency. So, take what I'm about to say with grain of salt.
A rule of thumb is 4hp per ton. I found that a 5hp ob was fine for a sloop weighing about one long ton. My present boat is a bit less than 4 short tons, and is fine with a two cyl Yanmar that is about 16-18 hp. (There are different ratings for peak, long term, etc.) So my experience agrees. I know Hunter put the same Yanmar in a boat weighing over 5 tons, and I think it must be a bit underpowered.
So your 32hp ob should be fine. I can't advise on whether the installation needs reinforcement.
>Yes, George Broadlick bought an AS-29 !?!?!? OMG! OMFG!
> I purchased an AS-29. The motor is a long way from the cockpit. I believe an outboard with remote controls and perhaps remote stearing and tilt would make her a much better boat to dock and motor. I found a 35 hp 2 stroke merc. She is lighter than a 4 stroke 9.9 but i am wondering if the extra hp will be a problem. I dont want to break the tramsom mount. I also have no feel for how many hp i need. My Martha Jane will overwelm my honda 2hp 4 stroke in a wind over 25. I dont think i would ever need 35 hp and dont want to break anything with unintended reving of the engine. Any thoughts?
> Any thoughts?
| The design displacement is about 7500# and our boat, when launched, sat right on her designed waterline. Once outfit for cruising (added solar panels, wind turbine, fridge, etc.) she now sits about an inch lower, meaning she weighs about 8000# now. That's loaded, fuel, water, food, etc. Empty for road travel, I'd guess about 7000#. --- OnFri, 11/19/10, George<gbroadlick@...>wrote: |
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "George" <gbroadlick@...> wrote:
>
> Would anyone know how much an AS 29 would weigh. I am trying to figure out how much trailer she would need
>
Ask this fella, he is the expert.
http://www.walkurevoyages.blogspot.com/
regards,
Dennis
Bellingham, WA
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "George" <gbroadlick@...> wrote:
>
> Would anyone know how much an AS 29 would weigh. I am trying to figure out how much trailer she would need
>
gear you carry inside. I just did a quick calculation of the
displacement assuming she floats on the waterline shown on the PCB
drawings, which pencils out at 6,500 lbs..
On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 6:50 AM, George <gbroadlick@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Would anyone know how much an AS 29 would weigh. I am trying to figure out how much trailer she would need
>
V/R
Chris
graeme19121984 wrote:
I think the bottom stays flat because the beam is constant.John, right, no stern bottom taper. I see that now and how the inward curving chine up front gets the flared sides to add bottom rocker there. Neat! Thanks. I'll do a model as you suggest. Say, that's an interesting thing in the cartoon text about how these hulls generally are a kind of surface effect vehicle (hovercraft). And that quantitative relationship of bottom breadth to depth at rest - great to see that. I read it before, but hadn't taken it in. For Brick, it puts the musings about that unused rectangle of ply in a different light... hmmm, depth an eighteenth or more of breadth... Graeme
> I think the bottom stays flat because the beam is constant.John,
right, no stern bottom taper. I see that now and how the inward curving chine up front gets the flared sides to add bottom rocker there. Neat! Thanks. I'll do a model as you suggest.
Say, that's an interesting thing in the cartoon text about how these hulls generally are a kind of surface effect vehicle (hovercraft). And that quantitative relationship of bottom breadth to depth at rest - great to see that. I read it before, but hadn't taken it in. For Brick, it puts the musings about that unused rectangle of ply in a different light... hmmm, depth an eighteenth or more of breadth...
Graeme
extreme length to width is where you get cheap speed !!! ie... lay a telephone pole in the water and give it a shove,,,,,,, then lay a 2' piece of telephone pole, same beam or diameter and see how far it will hold any kind of speed. Also a very practical and decent looking hull can be built with no curved cuts on sides or bottom... The rake on the stem and transom give it shape. I just i built a model,, looks a bit like the ' Lumber Yard Skiff'... doc --- OnMon, 12/21/09, Christopher C. Wetherill<wetherillc@...>wrote:
|
V/R
CHris
captjbturtle wrote:
Graeme. You are absolutely right. The hull bottom is perfectly flat aft, (planes cleanly ) and rockerd forwards, maybe 4 or 5 inches to the stem. Stem out of the water a couple of inches at rest and transom dra wing2 or 3 inches with the 135 lb motor also battery and 5 gall tank.Now to the guesswork. I think the bottom stays flat because he beam is constant. Once the sides begin to draw in towards the bow the rocker begins to form. The angled bow imparts a nice flared twist. I"m sure Susanne could explain it better. A cardboard model is easy to make and shows it works. One interesting thing about this style hull is that it seems to increase in effeciency by adding length.I discussed this with Paul McClellan when we launched his nice Small Clamskiff. We did not have both boats together but the two hulls (Sneak and Clamskiff) seem identical. The sneak is almost 10 feet longer (not muchheavier). With 10 hp the Sneak seems faster probably because it rides more level. Paul could comment he is familiar with both boats.Further, there is a gentleman on the Rideau who years ago built a beautiful replica of a Canadian destroyer. That boat is 45 feet long and only 5 foot beam. He was concerned for stability and has it loaded with iron ignots. He powers it with an old 9.9 and one day blew by me over 10 knots, I'm sure.And thats with guns, depth charges, lifeboats radar domes made from painted tennis balls and all. A reaqlly neat boat. He used to sleep aboard at boat shows. john
the cartoon and yourself describe the hull sides as three sheets long cut down the middle. That gives parallel edges to the sides, with some small triangles cut off the (stern?) ends PCB says. The side flare confers the sheer, rake, and rocker. It's the rocker I'm interested in.
The cartoon body plan shows the sides as flared throughout their length. There are no plumb sides aft, so there's insufficient twist if any to the side panels for that - anyway, in way of the aft cabin section the sides are shown to be flared. Now, the profile drawing shows the bottom as having slight rocker forward, but, in the manner of Sneakeasy and others, the aft two thirds or so of the bottom run are shown as dead flat straight. How is this necessary rocker of only the forward bottom achieved when the simply parallel cut sides are flared full length? PCB could gloss over this in a cartoon, but how did you achieve it in the wood? Is there a fudge, another cut to the sides to negate the flare effect on rocker? Or is there actually a little rocker in the run aft and a little sides twist lessening flare there too?
Graeme
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "captjbturtle" <captjbturtle@...> wrote:
>
>
> HI Mark,Yes thats the boat. I saved the SBJ article for all these years and finally built it from the cartoon as no plans were ever completed.I was confident the hull would be a quick easy sucess because it matches my Sneakeasy almost exactly. The Sneak is a great boat, very economical, quiet and good looking. I built mine without the extended draketails but performance doesnt seem to be hurt. She goes great with my Yam 9.9 4 stroke, quick, lively and quiet.I did not want to spoil the Sneak with a cabin and since they are so easy to build thought I would build cartoon 9 as an easy trailing, light car cruiser. Sure enough it was very easy and quick to build.Both sides come out of three sheets of ply. The parallel cut gives you both rocker, sheer and flare and thus about one foot more beam than the Sneak.I originally mocked up the cabin as shown then decided at my age it was just too hard to get down into so built an off center Birtwatcher walkway to pass by the bunk and a stand up area for galley at the front end. She is very light though the bottom is three quarter ply which i would recommen. The cut out in the bow is so i can exit when on the beach, works well. The motor is the same 9.9 i use on the Sneak. Performance is almost identical, a nice plane when needed but unbelievable gas mileage at third throttle when you can hardly hear the motor. At that R.P.M. she still lopes along very nicely. Rolls a little more in a turn but no problems. Would look very elegant built as drawn. Another great idea from Mr Bolger, a super cheap and easy, good looking great performing cruiser. Cant understand why hundreds havent been built. I"m a sailor and its a nach to replace the Dovkie, Seapearl types. Very light trailed it from Fl to Canada behind my old Toyota loaded with stuff. She now resides in Canada near Kingston right next to the Sneak and the Sneaks big sister Turtle. Come visit and try out anytime or call 772 979 4293, regards john bartlett
>
Mark might be me,24 foot long sound right, very narrow, steer from forward of the cabin. 9.9 power. john
AH, further research reveals it was John Bartlet. Go to the files and
search for the message's with "John;s Mystery Boat" in the title. Picture at
http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/bolger/ photos/album/ 1859821559/ pic/list
HJ
the Canal cruiser.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hallman/sets/72157622428568580/
The builder basically built it off of the cartoon. Really nice job and
apparently well used.
AH, further research reveals it was John Bartlet. Go to the files and
search for the message's with "John;s Mystery Boat" in the title. Picture at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/photos/album/1859821559/pic/list
HJ
Mark Albanese wrote:
> Someone recently finished a Flat Bottom Outboard Cruiser, but I've
> gone blind and blistered trying to find it again.
> Help?
>
> Mark
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
gone blind and blistered trying to find it again.
Help?
Mark
1. Bruce Hallman's reference.
2. Adapt extant AS-29 to the upgraded version of #547 on which we redrew the deck-layout to explicitly carry a 6'6" TORTOISE. Instead of using the gaff or main boom, a clip-on boom (w/crude gooseneck equivalent) with one line to the masthead to control the boom-angle and one on the boom to lower the punt could be set up on the side of your choice (or kept there set-up for good). I find our SHOEBOX too weensy for our combined 360lbs (Phil 160, Susanne 190 + clothes etc.) in anything than smooth waters. Hence our alterations to #547.
3. Starting with the off-center mizzen mast as one hard-point you could raise the mizzen boomkin just enough off the deck to allow a transverse davit set-up. In fact, if you make the mizzen boomkin much more 'meaty' and matcgh it on the other side with a 'shorty' equivalent, you should have a most luxurious set-up, assuming the outboard only comes up when the dinghy is tight up against the davit or in use. In tight quarters, you'd mind your stern quarters.
#3 of course adds weight way aft, connecting to the diesel-outboard discussion earlier.
Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
----- Original Message -----From:Bruce HallmanSent:Thursday, November 12, 2009 9:33 PMSubject:Re: [bolger] AS 29I have seen PCB designs that hang the dingy off the side, stern
quarter, parbuckled. Believe it or not, I have considered doing such
with my Micro Navigator, so doing it on an AS29 should be possible.
> The mizzen sail, mast and boomkin make davits impossible. Towing the
> dink is a pain, and it slows us down a bit.
quarter, parbuckled. Believe it or not, I have considered doing such
with my Micro Navigator, so doing it on an AS29 should be possible.
> The mizzen sail, mast and boomkin make davits impossible. Towing the
> dink is a pain, and it slows us down a bit.
dink is a pain, and it slows us down a bit. It is also a pain to pump it
out after a rain. If I had my druthers, I'd druther have a better system
for the dink. Otherwise, we're quite pleased with the boat.
I wonder if a dingy that comes apart in two halves might be a good
solution. Met a fellow in the Florida keys and he had one on a 26ft
boat. He had 1/2 on each side of the boat. Said he liked it. Also
bragged that it weighed 28 lbs must have been mad out of 3/16 plywood
and light limber. He raced it every Wednesday night for a keg of beer
and who ever won shared the keg with all the racers. Kinda neat. Doug
Michael Wagner wrote:
>
>
> You're right about a little bit of water in the bilge - can't be helped.
>
> The AS-29 has quite a bit of "rocker" so all water will migrate to
> midships, where the deepest part is. That's the galley and there is a
> floor that sits a few inches above the hull. In the newer version of
> the plans, this floor sits even higher. I put a pump under the floor,
> but it never quite gets dry. The raised floor keeps your feet dry,
> there's nowhere in the boat where you stand on the hull.
>
> The boat is surprisingly stable and heels only to about 16 degrees -
> except when the "admiral" is on deck trying to lower the mainsail and
> a gust comes along. (The high toerail on the mid deck kept her from a
> swim.)
>
> After 2 years of cruising through waters that were sometimes not as
> smooth as we like, we installed a set of lifelines. These are not in
> the plans, but I feel a lot more secure on the foredeck with them in
> place.
>
> The shoebox dinghy Bolger specified is really a one-man dink and good
> only in very still water. Anchoring out in Key West, 2 miles from
> shore, we got ourselves a Walker Bay with the flotation ring and a
> small outboard, but cannot stow it on deck. We have to tow it, and
> that is a pain.
>
> The mizzen sail, mast and boomkin make davits impossible. Towing the
> dink is a pain, and it slows us down a bit. It is also a pain to pump
> it out after a rain. If I had my druthers, I'd druther have a better
> system for the dink. Otherwise, we're quite pleased with the boat.
>
> Note that we also added an enclosure for the cockpit. It's a hard
> bimini with a slot down the middle for the masts when they are down.
> Masts up, we cover the slot with canvas. Roll-up plastic sides, etc,
> and we can be quite comfortable in most weather. (Not today, Ida is
> paying us a visit.)
>
> We also added solar panel, a wind genny and a refrigerator. The change
> in wind balance caused us to add a skeg forward of the rudder. It is
> the same height as the rudder at the aft end, and tapers to blend with
> the fairbody just aft of midships. It greatly improves the handling
> under power and downwind. Regardless of your choice of protection for
> the cockpit, I would add the skeg.
>
>
>
> --- On *Tue, 11/10/09, Douglas Pollard /<dougpol1@...>/* wrote:
>
>
> From: Douglas Pollard <dougpol1@...>
> Subject: Re: [bolger] AS 29
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 4:16 PM
>
>
>
> Michael,
> As far as a place to build is concerned I have a Bow shed covered
> in plastic that I built several years ago to build and Elver in.(
> 20 x
> 30 ft.x 15 ft high. I have about all the tools needed. Plus a metal
> lathe, welder and small home made milling machine so I could even
> make
> the hard ware. The idea of hiring a couple fellows to work on her is
> an appealing one. My wife made the sails for our Elver using kits
> from
> sailright and they came out really nice. She is a boat canvas worker
> and was in the business for a time. I would likely buy sails from
> a shop
> as that's a big job and she is busy as a Care taker. We are taking
> care
> of her 87 year old mother so we can't pick up and leave right this
> minute. The old ladies life is winding down so likely the coming
> year or
> the next. So with sufficient help a couple years building might be
> about
> the right timing if I started soon. There is a post by Mark that
> he may
> want to sell his unfinished AS 29. I will call him and that might be
> a possibility. In some ways meeting a weekly payroll to build
> might be
> easier financially as we could in part meet that from income and
> would
> not have to eat up so much of our savings. There is a lot to be said
> for that.
> One of the minor things that I have thought about is that there is
> almost always a leak someplace in a boat is there a place for
> water to
> collect without having to stand in it? Maybe a small flat place in
> the
> floor amidships where a little water can collect underneath ? I could
> put in one as we are both short so there is likely more headroom
> than we
> need under the pilot house. Dog gone my mind is going a hundred
> miles an
> hour I need to back off a bit and do a little slow thinking and make
> some notes. If you have suggestion on changes I would appreciate you
> posting them or sending them to me personally. I suspect everyone
> else
> would be interested in reading them as would I. If I decide to
> build I
> will need to get a set of plans ordered fairly soon.
>
> Thanks, Doug
>
> Michael Wagner wrote:
> >
> >
> > Yikes! You do ask the tough ones, don't you?
> >
> > I really have no idea of man-hours. VERY rough guess is 1500. But
> > then, I was learning as I went, made many mistakes that had to be
> > fixed, etc. If I was to do it again, I might get it done in about
> > 1000. (Don't take that to the bank, it's a very rough guess.)
> >
> > If you were somewhere near Marathon, FL, I would gladly help, or
> maybe
> > do the build myself. The big issue is a suitable work space. That
> > would likely be the biggest cost.
> >
> > --- On *Tue, 11/10/09, Harry James /<welshman@ptialaska. net
> </mc/compose?to=welshman%40ptialaska.net>>/* wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Harry James <welshman@ptialaska. net
> </mc/compose?to=welshman%40ptialaska.net>>
> > Subject: Re: [bolger] AS 29
> > To: bolger@yahoogroups. com
> </mc/compose?to=bolger%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 2:58 PM
> >
> >
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > How many manhours do you think?
> >
> > HJ
> >
> > Michael Wagner wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Where are you?
> > >
> > > I built an AS-29 and I currently live on it. Have traveled over
> > 6000
> > > nautical miles in her.
> > >
> > > I have some ideas on minor modifications that are very helpful.
> > >
> > > You will not need a forklift if your building space has good roof
> > > rafters. A simple block and tackle hoist will suffice.
> > >
> > > You will need a table saw or a band saw. (Both would really help.)
> > >
> > > It CAN be done by one man - I'm proof.
> > >
> > > Any questions, please write me. I may take a while to respond as
> > I am
> > > currently traveling on the boat and don't always have internet.
> > >
> > > --- On *Tue, 11/10/09, Bruce Hallman /<hallman@gmail. com
> > </mc/compose? to=hallman% 40gmail.com> >/* wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > From: Bruce Hallman <hallman@gmail. com
> > </mc/compose? to=hallman% 40gmail.com> >
> > > Subject: Re: [bolger] AS 29
> > > To: bolger@yahoogroups. com
> > </mc/compose? to=bolger% 40yahoogroups. com>
> > > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 2:00 PM
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > I would like to find a builder who has built at least one AS 29
> > > as he doesn't have to go through the
> > > > learning curve on my boat.
> > >
> > > Good luck finding an AS29 builder willing to help, there are
> only a
> > > handful who meet that qualification in the world. Though I suspect
> > > that in this depressed economy there are some really talented
> > > carpenters who could make very quick work of the carpentry
> building
> > > that boat which is essentially just a large curved box.
> > >
> > > I bet the most efficient team would be one carpenter, one
> > laborer, and
> > > one supervisor (you) doing the planning and materials acquisition.
> > > It also might be nice if you had available the easy rental of a
> > > forklift or small hoist for handling the larger pieces, again this
> > > could be cheaply rented in this depressed construction economy.
> > >
> > > You mention you have built two boats, so I presume you have the
> > > expertise learned already for sheathing plywood in cloth and
> > epoxy, so
> > > you could supervise that work with the laborer doing the hard
> work.
> > >
> > > I think you could achieve 90% of your desire for an eased learning
> > > curve by insisting that your hired carpenter start first by
> > building a
> > > quick scale model of the hull, say at 1 inch to the foot. This
> would
> > > be money well spent, with efficiencies gained working out the
> > > efficient sequencing and configuration of the bulkheads and
> panels.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Douglas Pollard <dougpol1@...> wrote:
>
> I am considering an AS 29 as a cruising and long term live aboard boat.
> I am not crazy about the looks of the boat, as a matter of fact I hate
> them, but she seems really suited to our needs. First off I am 75 years
> old and my wife 6 years younger.
> We have lived aboard a total of 14 years and I have built several
> boats. I don't want to build another because of the consideration of
> how long we have left to sail and don't really want to spend 5 years
> completing a boat. I find it hard to believe AS 29 is seaworthy in the
> crossing oceans sense. Having known Phil Bolger as I did, and having
> built two of his boats I know he didn't make a lot of false claims so I
> am willing to take his word for it. I would sail her to the Bahamas
> from Florida to cruise. WE will run the inland water way with
> occasional outings to sail along the coast. She will need a pretty good
> engine. I would really like a two cylinder inboard diesel but that is
> out for a boat that will dry out on her bottom. So I guess it will be a
> 4 cycle outboard about 10 horse. I wish I could get an outboard diesel.
> When it comes to acquiring a boat I have two choices, buy a used
> one, which I would be willing to do or have one built leaving finishing
> and rigging for me to do. I could make spars and other boat parts while
> the builder is working on the boat. I would like to find a builder who
> has built at least one AS 29 as he doesn't have to go through the
> learning curve on my boat. Hopefully maybe saving me a few dollars. So
> any builder suggestions would be appreciated.
> To get smaller sails to handle we will want her a schooner or
> Ketch. The schooner rig is preferable to a ketch I think as the main
> can be dropped and with her foremast in place as designed she will
> balance as a reefed sail would. This I think is preferable to having to
> reef. Of course the sails could still have reefing points as it might be
> preferable to reef one or the other or both sails before leaving an
> anchorage which I am prone to do if the wind is likely to get up. My
> thinking is the foresail to be boomed rather than sprite boomed. The
> main will have a sprite boom for efficiency and so all sails can be set
> from the cockpit, with no need to go forward to set a snotter on the
> foresail. We all know she wont be as weatherly with such a rig but we
> don't get in a hurry much these days. If we really get frisky I would
> plan to have a mizzen stay sail or golly wobbler for a fast down wind
> run. I like the sail because it can be handled from the cockpit. Of
> course the fore sail will be hauled from th cockpit as well. I will
> want lee boards as I think she would look mighty fine with a set of
> bolger leeboards. There is a Bologer leeboard design that lets you use
> windward and leeward boards in the water when sailing.
>
> I am also looking at Triloboats as well. ( Google it) Since
> everything is square on them and sides and bottoms straight I could hire
> some Mexican carpenters with less than boat building skill and good
> instructions they could put a barge together likely pretty reasonably.
> Barges sail far better than most sailors realize. They have a lot of
> room and are fast to windward but not close winded. I'm not sure I
> would want to sail one over to the Bahamas although the designer is
> coasting in his??
> I have a smallish pot bellied stove with a flat top to cook on which
> would be perfect for a barge but possibly a little heavy and oversized
> for an AS 29. Now that is a huge consideration in favor of a barge. We
> do like our wood and coal stoves. Anyway, all suggestions are welcome.
>
>
> Doug
>
You could also look up Loose Moose in the archives here. This is a Jesse Cooper, but similar in concept.
V/R
Chris
Paul Esterle wrote:
Doug,
You need to spend some time on the log of Walkure, Mike Wagner's AS-29. He and Bev live aboard and cruise up and down the east coast. It should tell you everything you need to know about an AS29...
I'm as yet not ready to make any kind of a commitment but I have your
name and address in my address book. I may very well get in touch mid
winter after I have had a chance to think all this through. Set of plans
is first.
Doug
Adirondack Goodboat wrote:
>
> You can't beat Bruce's advice, but for what it's worth I'd like to
> build a Bolger boat some old day, having restored or finished several
> of them most recently the first and only known Whalewatcher, photos of
> which appear in several albums on the photos section of this group. I
> cannot offer the greatest economy but would hire a hand or two and
> we'd make reasonably quick work of an AS-29, next summer, under a
> canopy. Mason Smith.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Bruce Hallman <mailto:hallman@...>
> *To:*bolger@yahoogroups.com<mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 10, 2009 2:00 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [bolger] AS 29
>
> > I would like to find a builder who has built at least one AS 29
> as he doesn't have to go through the
> > learning curve on my boat.
>
> Good luck finding an AS29 builder willing to help, there are only a
> handful who meet that qualification in the world. Though I suspect
> that in this depressed economy there are some really talented
> carpenters who could make very quick work of the carpentry building
> that boat which is essentially just a large curved box.
>
> I bet the most efficient team would be one carpenter, one laborer, and
> one supervisor (you) doing the planning and materials acquisition.
> It also might be nice if you had available the easy rental of a
> forklift or small hoist for handling the larger pieces, again this
> could be cheaply rented in this depressed construction economy.
>
> You mention you have built two boats, so I presume you have the
> expertise learned already for sheathing plywood in cloth and epoxy, so
> you could supervise that work with the laborer doing the hard work.
>
> I think you could achieve 90% of your desire for an eased learning
> curve by insisting that your hired carpenter start first by building a
> quick scale model of the hull, say at 1 inch to the foot. This would
> be money well spent, with efficiencies gained working out the
> efficient sequencing and configuration of the bulkheads and panels.
>
>
----- Original Message -----From:Bruce HallmanSent:Tuesday, November 10, 2009 2:00 PMSubject:Re: [bolger] AS 29> I would like to find a builder who has built at least one AS 29 as he doesn't have to go through the
> learning curve on my boat.
Good luck finding an AS29 builder willing to help, there are only a
handful who meet that qualification in the world. Though I suspect
that in this depressed economy there are some really talented
carpenters who could make very quick work of the carpentry building
that boat which is essentially just a large curved box.
I bet the most efficient team would be one carpenter, one laborer, and
one supervisor (you) doing the planning and materials acquisition.
It also might be nice if you had available the easy rental of a
forklift or small hoist for handling the larger pieces, again this
could be cheaply rented in this depressed construction economy.
You mention you have built two boats, so I presume you have the
expertise learned already for sheathing plywood in cloth and epoxy, so
you could supervise that work with the laborer doing the hard work.
I think you could achieve 90% of your desire for an eased learning
curve by insisting that your hired carpenter start first by building a
quick scale model of the hull, say at 1 inch to the foot. This would
be money well spent, with efficiencies gained working out the
efficient sequencing and configuration of the bulkheads and panels.
| You're right about a little bit of water in the bilge - can't be helped. The AS-29 has quite a bit of "rocker" so all water will migrate to midships, where the deepest part is. That's the galley and there is a floor that sits a few inches above the hull. In the newer version of the plans, this floor sits even higher. I put a pump under the floor, but it never quite gets dry. The raised floor keeps your feet dry, there's nowhere in the boat where you stand on the hull. The boat is surprisingly stable and heels only to about 16 degrees - except when the "admiral" is on deck trying to lower the mainsail and a gust comes along. (The high toerail on the mid deck kept her from a swim.) After 2 years of cruising through waters that were sometimes not as smooth as we like, we installed a set of lifelines. These are not in the plans, but I feel a lot more secure on the foredeck with them in place. The shoebox dinghy Bolger specified is really a one-man dink and good only in very still water. Anchoring out in Key West, 2 miles from shore, we got ourselves a Walker Bay with the flotation ring and a small outboard, but cannot stow it on deck. We have to tow it, and that is a pain. The mizzen sail, mast and boomkin make davits impossible. Towing the dink is a pain, and it slows us down a bit. It is also a pain to pump it out after a rain. If I had my druthers, I'd druther have a better system for the dink. Otherwise, we're quite pleased with the boat. Note that we also added an enclosure for the cockpit. It's a hard bimini with a slot down the middle for the masts when they are down. Masts up, we cover the slot with canvas. Roll-up plastic sides, etc, and we can be quite comfortable in most weather. (Not today, Ida is paying us a visit.) We also added solar panel, a wind genny and a refrigerator. The change in wind balance caused us to add a skeg forward of the rudder. It is the same height as the rudder at the aft end, and tapers to blend with the fairbody just aft of midships. It greatly improves the handling under power and downwind. Regardless of your choice of protection for the cockpit, I would add the skeg. --- OnTue, 11/10/09, Douglas Pollard<dougpol1@...>wrote: |
| You're right about a little bit of water in the bilge - can't be helped. The AS-29 has quite a bit of "rocker" so all water will migrate to midships, where the deepest part is. That's the galley and there is a floor that sits a few inches above the hull. In the newer version of the plans, this floor sits even higher. I put a pump under the floor, but it never quite gets dry. The raised floor keeps your feet dry, there's nowhere in the boat where you stand on the hull. The boat is surprisingly stable and heels only to about 16 degrees - except when the "admiral" is on deck trying to lower the mainsail and a gust comes along. (The high toerail on the mid deck kept her from a swim.) After 2 years of cruising through waters that were sometimes not as smooth as we like, we installed a set of lifelines. These are not in the plans, but I feel a lot more secure on the foredeck with them in place. The shoebox dinghy Bolger specified is really a one-man dink and good only in very still water. Anchoring out in Key West, 2 miles from shore, we got ourselves a Walker Bay with the flotation ring and a small outboard, but cannot stow it on deck. We have to tow it, and that is a pain. The mizzen sail, mast and boomkin make davits impossible. Towing the dink is a pain, and it slows us down a bit. It is also a pain to pump it out after a rain. If I had my druthers, I'd druther have a better system for the dink. Otherwise, we're quite pleased with the boat. Note that we also added an enclosure for the cockpit. It's a hard bimini with a slot down the middle for the masts when they are down. Masts up, we cover the slot with canvas. Roll-up plastic sides, etc, and we can be quite comfortable in most weather. (Not today, Ida is paying us a visit.) We also added solar panel, a wind genny and a refrigerator. The change in wind balance caused us to add a skeg forward of the rudder. It is the same height as the rudder at the aft end, and tapers to blend with the fairbody just aft of midships. It greatly improves the handling under power and downwind. Regardless of your choice of protection for the cockpit, I would add the skeg. --- OnTue, 11/10/09, Douglas Pollard<dougpol1@...>wrote: |
As far as a place to build is concerned I have a Bow shed covered
in plastic that I built several years ago to build and Elver in.( 20 x
30 ft.x 15 ft high. I have about all the tools needed. Plus a metal
lathe, welder and small home made milling machine so I could even make
the hard ware. The idea of hiring a couple fellows to work on her is
an appealing one. My wife made the sails for our Elver using kits from
sailright and they came out really nice. She is a boat canvas worker
and was in the business for a time. I would likely buy sails from a shop
as that's a big job and she is busy as a Care taker. We are taking care
of her 87 year old mother so we can't pick up and leave right this
minute. The old ladies life is winding down so likely the coming year or
the next. So with sufficient help a couple years building might be about
the right timing if I started soon. There is a post by Mark that he may
want to sell his unfinished AS 29. I will call him and that might be
a possibility. In some ways meeting a weekly payroll to build might be
easier financially as we could in part meet that from income and would
not have to eat up so much of our savings. There is a lot to be said
for that.
One of the minor things that I have thought about is that there is
almost always a leak someplace in a boat is there a place for water to
collect without having to stand in it? Maybe a small flat place in the
floor amidships where a little water can collect underneath ? I could
put in one as we are both short so there is likely more headroom than we
need under the pilot house. Dog gone my mind is going a hundred miles an
hour I need to back off a bit and do a little slow thinking and make
some notes. If you have suggestion on changes I would appreciate you
posting them or sending them to me personally. I suspect everyone else
would be interested in reading them as would I. If I decide to build I
will need to get a set of plans ordered fairly soon.
Thanks, Doug
Michael Wagner wrote:
>
>
> Yikes! You do ask the tough ones, don't you?
>
> I really have no idea of man-hours. VERY rough guess is 1500. But
> then, I was learning as I went, made many mistakes that had to be
> fixed, etc. If I was to do it again, I might get it done in about
> 1000. (Don't take that to the bank, it's a very rough guess.)
>
> If you were somewhere near Marathon, FL, I would gladly help, or maybe
> do the build myself. The big issue is a suitable work space. That
> would likely be the biggest cost.
>
> --- On *Tue, 11/10/09, Harry James /<welshman@...>/* wrote:
>
>
> From: Harry James <welshman@...>
> Subject: Re: [bolger] AS 29
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 2:58 PM
>
>
>
> Michael
>
> How many manhours do you think?
>
> HJ
>
> Michael Wagner wrote:
> >
> >
> > Where are you?
> >
> > I built an AS-29 and I currently live on it. Have traveled over
> 6000
> > nautical miles in her.
> >
> > I have some ideas on minor modifications that are very helpful.
> >
> > You will not need a forklift if your building space has good roof
> > rafters. A simple block and tackle hoist will suffice.
> >
> > You will need a table saw or a band saw. (Both would really help.)
> >
> > It CAN be done by one man - I'm proof.
> >
> > Any questions, please write me. I may take a while to respond as
> I am
> > currently traveling on the boat and don't always have internet.
> >
> > --- On *Tue, 11/10/09, Bruce Hallman /<hallman@gmail. com
> </mc/compose?to=hallman%40gmail.com>>/* wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Bruce Hallman <hallman@gmail. com
> </mc/compose?to=hallman%40gmail.com>>
> > Subject: Re: [bolger] AS 29
> > To: bolger@yahoogroups. com
> </mc/compose?to=bolger%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 2:00 PM
> >
> >
> >
> > > I would like to find a builder who has built at least one AS 29
> > as he doesn't have to go through the
> > > learning curve on my boat.
> >
> > Good luck finding an AS29 builder willing to help, there are only a
> > handful who meet that qualification in the world. Though I suspect
> > that in this depressed economy there are some really talented
> > carpenters who could make very quick work of the carpentry building
> > that boat which is essentially just a large curved box.
> >
> > I bet the most efficient team would be one carpenter, one
> laborer, and
> > one supervisor (you) doing the planning and materials acquisition.
> > It also might be nice if you had available the easy rental of a
> > forklift or small hoist for handling the larger pieces, again this
> > could be cheaply rented in this depressed construction economy.
> >
> > You mention you have built two boats, so I presume you have the
> > expertise learned already for sheathing plywood in cloth and
> epoxy, so
> > you could supervise that work with the laborer doing the hard work.
> >
> > I think you could achieve 90% of your desire for an eased learning
> > curve by insisting that your hired carpenter start first by
> building a
> > quick scale model of the hull, say at 1 inch to the foot. This would
> > be money well spent, with efficiencies gained working out the
> > efficient sequencing and configuration of the bulkheads and panels.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
| Yikes! You do ask the tough ones, don't you? I really have no idea of man-hours. VERY rough guess is 1500. But then, I was learning as I went, made many mistakes that had to be fixed, etc. If I was to do it again, I might get it done in about 1000. (Don't take that to the bank, it's a very rough guess.) If you were somewhere near Marathon, FL, I would gladly help, or maybe do the build myself. The big issue is a suitable work space. That would likely be the biggest cost. --- OnTue, 11/10/09, Harry James<welshman@...>wrote: |
How many manhours do you think?
HJ
Michael Wagner wrote:
>
>
> Where are you?
>
> I built an AS-29 and I currently live on it. Have traveled over 6000
> nautical miles in her.
>
> I have some ideas on minor modifications that are very helpful.
>
> You will not need a forklift if your building space has good roof
> rafters. A simple block and tackle hoist will suffice.
>
> You will need a table saw or a band saw. (Both would really help.)
>
> It CAN be done by one man - I'm proof.
>
> Any questions, please write me. I may take a while to respond as I am
> currently traveling on the boat and don't always have internet.
>
> --- On *Tue, 11/10/09, Bruce Hallman /<hallman@...>/* wrote:
>
>
> From: Bruce Hallman <hallman@...>
> Subject: Re: [bolger] AS 29
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 2:00 PM
>
>
>
> > I would like to find a builder who has built at least one AS 29
> as he doesn't have to go through the
> > learning curve on my boat.
>
> Good luck finding an AS29 builder willing to help, there are only a
> handful who meet that qualification in the world. Though I suspect
> that in this depressed economy there are some really talented
> carpenters who could make very quick work of the carpentry building
> that boat which is essentially just a large curved box.
>
> I bet the most efficient team would be one carpenter, one laborer, and
> one supervisor (you) doing the planning and materials acquisition.
> It also might be nice if you had available the easy rental of a
> forklift or small hoist for handling the larger pieces, again this
> could be cheaply rented in this depressed construction economy.
>
> You mention you have built two boats, so I presume you have the
> expertise learned already for sheathing plywood in cloth and epoxy, so
> you could supervise that work with the laborer doing the hard work.
>
> I think you could achieve 90% of your desire for an eased learning
> curve by insisting that your hired carpenter start first by building a
> quick scale model of the hull, say at 1 inch to the foot. This would
> be money well spent, with efficiencies gained working out the
> efficient sequencing and configuration of the bulkheads and panels.
>
>
>
>
>
See my comments interspersed below:--- OnTue, 11/10/09, Douglas Pollard<dougpol1@...>wrote: |
>Bruce that is an excellent idea having the carpenter build a model.
> > I would like to find a builder who has built at least one AS 29 as
> he doesn't have to go through the
> > learning curve on my boat.
>
> Good luck finding an AS29 builder willing to help, there are only a
> handful who meet that qualification in the world. Though I suspect
> that in this depressed economy there are some really talented
> carpenters who could make very quick work of the carpentry building
> that boat which is essentially just a large curved box.
>
> I bet the most efficient team would be one carpenter, one laborer, and
> one supervisor (you) doing the planning and materials acquisition.
> It also might be nice if you had available the easy rental of a
> forklift or small hoist for handling the larger pieces, again this
> could be cheaply rented in this depressed construction economy.
>
> You mention you have built two boats, so I presume you have the
> expertise learned already for sheathing plywood in cloth and epoxy, so
> you could supervise that work with the laborer doing the hard work.
>
> I think you could achieve 90% of your desire for an eased learning
> curve by insisting that your hired carpenter start first by building a
> quick scale model of the hull, say at 1 inch to the foot. This would
> be money well spent, with efficiencies gained working out the
> efficient sequencing and configuration of the bulkheads and panels.
>
>
There is not much difference in building the full size boat as far as
cutting and shaping the wood is concerned. Thanks, Doug
| Where are you? I built an AS-29 and I currently live on it. Have traveled over 6000 nautical miles in her. I have some ideas on minor modifications that are very helpful. You will not need a forklift if your building space has good roof rafters. A simple block and tackle hoist will suffice. You will need a table saw or a band saw. (Both would really help.) It CAN be done by one man - I'm proof. Any questions, please write me. I may take a while to respond as I am currently traveling on the boat and don't always have internet. --- OnTue, 11/10/09, Bruce Hallman<hallman@...>wrote: |
> I would like to find a builder who has built at least one AS 29 as he doesn't have to go through theGood luck finding an AS29 builder willing to help, there are only a
> learning curve on my boat.
handful who meet that qualification in the world. Though I suspect
that in this depressed economy there are some really talented
carpenters who could make very quick work of the carpentry building
that boat which is essentially just a large curved box.
I bet the most efficient team would be one carpenter, one laborer, and
one supervisor (you) doing the planning and materials acquisition.
It also might be nice if you had available the easy rental of a
forklift or small hoist for handling the larger pieces, again this
could be cheaply rented in this depressed construction economy.
You mention you have built two boats, so I presume you have the
expertise learned already for sheathing plywood in cloth and epoxy, so
you could supervise that work with the laborer doing the hard work.
I think you could achieve 90% of your desire for an eased learning
curve by insisting that your hired carpenter start first by building a
quick scale model of the hull, say at 1 inch to the foot. This would
be money well spent, with efficiencies gained working out the
efficient sequencing and configuration of the bulkheads and panels.
You need to spend some time on the log of Walkure, Mike Wagner's AS-29. He and Bev live aboard and cruise up and down the east coast. It should tell you everything you need to know about an AS29...
http://walkurevoyages.blogspot.com/
Paul Esterle
Freelance Boating Writer
Capt'n Pauley's Virtual Boatyard
Boat advice for the nautically addicted
www.thevirtualboatyard.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Douglas Pollard" <dougpol1@...>
To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 12:18:12 PM (GMT-0500) Auto-Detected
Subject: [bolger] AS 29
I am considering an AS 29 as a cruising and long term live aboard boat.
I am not crazy about the looks of the boat, as a matter of fact I hate
them, but she seems really suited to our needs. First off I am 75 years
old and my wife 6 years younger.
We have lived aboard a total of 14 years and I have built several
boats. I don't want to build another because of the consideration of
how long we have left to sail and don't really want to spend 5 years
completing a boat. I find it hard to believe AS 29 is seaworthy in the
crossing oceans sense. Having known Phil Bolger as I did, and having
built two of his boats I know he didn't make a lot of false claims so I
am willing to take his word for it. I would sail her to the Bahamas
from Florida to cruise. WE will run the inland water way with
occasional outings to sail along the coast. She will need a pretty good
engine. I would really like a two cylinder inboard diesel but that is
out for a boat that will dry out on her bottom. So I guess it will be a
4 cycle outboard about 10 horse. I wish I could get an outboard diesel.
When it comes to acquiring a boat I have two choices, buy a used
one, which I would be willing to do or have one built leaving finishing
and rigging for me to do. I could make spars and other boat parts while
the builder is working on the boat. I would like to find a builder who
has built at least one AS 29 as he doesn't have to go through the
learning curve on my boat. Hopefully maybe saving me a few dollars. So
any builder suggestions would be appreciated.
To get smaller sails to handle we will want her a schooner or
Ketch. The schooner rig is preferable to a ketch I think as the main
can be dropped and with her foremast in place as designed she will
balance as a reefed sail would. This I think is preferable to having to
reef. Of course the sails could still have reefing points as it might be
preferable to reef one or the other or both sails before leaving an
anchorage which I am prone to do if the wind is likely to get up. My
thinking is the foresail to be boomed rather than sprite boomed. The
main will have a sprite boom for efficiency and so all sails can be set
from the cockpit, with no need to go forward to set a snotter on the
foresail. We all know she wont be as weatherly with such a rig but we
don't get in a hurry much these days. If we really get frisky I would
plan to have a mizzen stay sail or golly wobbler for a fast down wind
run. I like the sail because it can be handled from the cockpit. Of
course the fore sail will be hauled from th cockpit as well. I will
want lee boards as I think she would look mighty fine with a set of
bolger leeboards. There is a Bologer leeboard design that lets you use
windward and leeward boards in the water when sailing.
I am also looking at Triloboats as well. ( Google it) Since
everything is square on them and sides and bottoms straight I could hire
some Mexican carpenters with less than boat building skill and good
instructions they could put a barge together likely pretty reasonably.
Barges sail far better than most sailors realize. They have a lot of
room and are fast to windward but not close winded. I'm not sure I
would want to sail one over to the Bahamas although the designer is
coasting in his??
I have a smallish pot bellied stove with a flat top to cook on which
would be perfect for a barge but possibly a little heavy and oversized
for an AS 29. Now that is a huge consideration in favor of a barge. We
do like our wood and coal stoves. Anyway, all suggestions are welcome.
Doug
I am not crazy about the looks of the boat, as a matter of fact I hate
them, but she seems really suited to our needs. First off I am 75 years
old and my wife 6 years younger.
We have lived aboard a total of 14 years and I have built several
boats. I don't want to build another because of the consideration of
how long we have left to sail and don't really want to spend 5 years
completing a boat. I find it hard to believe AS 29 is seaworthy in the
crossing oceans sense. Having known Phil Bolger as I did, and having
built two of his boats I know he didn't make a lot of false claims so I
am willing to take his word for it. I would sail her to the Bahamas
from Florida to cruise. WE will run the inland water way with
occasional outings to sail along the coast. She will need a pretty good
engine. I would really like a two cylinder inboard diesel but that is
out for a boat that will dry out on her bottom. So I guess it will be a
4 cycle outboard about 10 horse. I wish I could get an outboard diesel.
When it comes to acquiring a boat I have two choices, buy a used
one, which I would be willing to do or have one built leaving finishing
and rigging for me to do. I could make spars and other boat parts while
the builder is working on the boat. I would like to find a builder who
has built at least one AS 29 as he doesn't have to go through the
learning curve on my boat. Hopefully maybe saving me a few dollars. So
any builder suggestions would be appreciated.
To get smaller sails to handle we will want her a schooner or
Ketch. The schooner rig is preferable to a ketch I think as the main
can be dropped and with her foremast in place as designed she will
balance as a reefed sail would. This I think is preferable to having to
reef. Of course the sails could still have reefing points as it might be
preferable to reef one or the other or both sails before leaving an
anchorage which I am prone to do if the wind is likely to get up. My
thinking is the foresail to be boomed rather than sprite boomed. The
main will have a sprite boom for efficiency and so all sails can be set
from the cockpit, with no need to go forward to set a snotter on the
foresail. We all know she wont be as weatherly with such a rig but we
don't get in a hurry much these days. If we really get frisky I would
plan to have a mizzen stay sail or golly wobbler for a fast down wind
run. I like the sail because it can be handled from the cockpit. Of
course the fore sail will be hauled from th cockpit as well. I will
want lee boards as I think she would look mighty fine with a set of
bolger leeboards. There is a Bologer leeboard design that lets you use
windward and leeward boards in the water when sailing.
I am also looking at Triloboats as well. ( Google it) Since
everything is square on them and sides and bottoms straight I could hire
some Mexican carpenters with less than boat building skill and good
instructions they could put a barge together likely pretty reasonably.
Barges sail far better than most sailors realize. They have a lot of
room and are fast to windward but not close winded. I'm not sure I
would want to sail one over to the Bahamas although the designer is
coasting in his??
I have a smallish pot bellied stove with a flat top to cook on which
would be perfect for a barge but possibly a little heavy and oversized
for an AS 29. Now that is a huge consideration in favor of a barge. We
do like our wood and coal stoves. Anyway, all suggestions are welcome.
Doug
new upgrades.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Michael Wagner <willers32@...> wrote:
>
> Last I heard, AS-29 plans were $400 plus $100 for the upgrade sheet.
>
> --- On Sun, 3/1/09, Troy <necromancer_wizard@...> wrote:
> From: Troy <necromancer_wizard@...>
> Subject: [bolger] AS 29
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sunday, March 1, 2009, 2:34 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Does anyone know the price for the AS 29 and AS 39 plans?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Troy
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
--- On Sun, 3/1/09, Troy <necromancer_wizard@...> wrote:
From: Troy <necromancer_wizard@...>
Subject: [bolger] AS 29
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, March 1, 2009, 2:34 PM
Does anyone know the price for the AS 29 and AS 39 plans?
Thanks,
Troy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thanks,
Troy
In another thread you gave me your feeling about how seaworthy an AS29
is, thanks for your valuable comments and again for your Walkure web
pages.
In this thread you wrote that you possibly could build a new AS29,
just in order to have a good estimate of the current price of this
boat professionnaly built what would be the price of a new AS29, ready
to live aboard and sail ? I know that it depends on the equipments...
as my current boat I am living aboard is my 5th sailboat, I definitely
like the AS29 and all the philosophy lying behind.
Best regards, jcjglt.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Michael Wagner <willers32@...> wrote:
>
> I live on an AS-29 that I built myself.
>
> She's not for sale at this time, as she is my only home.
>
> There are only about 10 or 12 AS-29s worldwide so finding one for
sale is rare.
>
> Although I am not presently in a position to build another boat, we
could talk. Who knows, for the right price I might stop someplace long
enough to build one for you. You should have contacted my last
February. I have stayed here in St. Petersburg too long and am getting
ready to sail to the Keys Dec 1.
..............................................
She's not for sale at this time, as she is my only home.
There are only about 10 or 12 AS-29s worldwide so finding one for sale is rare.
Although I am not presently in a position to build another boat, we could talk. Who knows, for the right price I might stop someplace long enough to build one for you. You should have contacted my last February. I have stayed here in St. Petersburg too long and am getting ready to sail to the Keys Dec 1.
Do you want to talk about commissioning a boat?
Any thing is possible.
Thanks.
Mike Wagner
PS here's a picture of my AS-29.
sirkarl390 <luc.granger@...> wrote: I would be interested in buying a AS 29..Any one knows about one for
sale somewhere in North America
Luc
From Montreal
Ron Paul for President
Hope for America
Be part of it.
---------------------------------
Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
sale somewhere in North America
Luc
From Montreal
this summer with grace and speed. Sadly because of change of life
direction she is now for sale. I'm asking $31,500. Professionally
built according to plans of fir mdo with epoxy/fg. Rigged with first
class stuff. Could deliver. I've got about $10,000 material cost
with about 1000 hours labor. Call me. 218 694 6139 or 218 694 3007
>From:bitme1234@...About 11, as far as Leo and I can work out. Odd ones
>Subject: AS 29
>How many are out there, really ?
keep appearing out of the woodwork...
Not many seem to be sailed much, more used as
motorsailers. One might question whether similar
accommodations in a different hull shape, designed for
motor with sail auxiliary rather than the other way
around, would be a better proposition for most people's
purposes. Those that are sailed extensively are all
coasters...at least until Leo gets his floating.
Advanced Sharpie links:
http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/as192939.htm
AS29s featured with lots of photos including actual
sailing (!)
Prototype (now Paul Newton's)
http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/farmer.htm
Lady Kate sailing & cruising
http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/lk.htm
Tim & FLying Tadpole
SquareBoats!http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/sbhome.htm
to deliver to southern states this winter possibly.