Re: Pointy Skiff Complete! Cartop help needed/Ashley book of Knots ...
The best knot I have found for cartopping is the "trucker's hitch" it
is found (as well as all other knots) in the Ashley Book of Knots.
This is a great reference and great winter reading.
To fasten the boat, make a bowline in one end and slip it over one
end of your roof rack.
2. run the line across the boat.
3. reach up to the part going over the boat and put a twist in it and
pull the loop through itself, making a kind of loop pulley type device
in the upper part of the rope.
4. now take the part you passed over the boat around the other end of
the roof rack and pass the free end through the "loop, pulley".
5. now tie two half hitches in just below the loop and you have a very
secure boat.
This knot is also great for making vangs and for tieing down things to
the deck.
For easy removal, use a slip knot, rather than the half hitch.
Happy Boating,
David Jost
is found (as well as all other knots) in the Ashley Book of Knots.
This is a great reference and great winter reading.
To fasten the boat, make a bowline in one end and slip it over one
end of your roof rack.
2. run the line across the boat.
3. reach up to the part going over the boat and put a twist in it and
pull the loop through itself, making a kind of loop pulley type device
in the upper part of the rope.
4. now take the part you passed over the boat around the other end of
the roof rack and pass the free end through the "loop, pulley".
5. now tie two half hitches in just below the loop and you have a very
secure boat.
This knot is also great for making vangs and for tieing down things to
the deck.
For easy removal, use a slip knot, rather than the half hitch.
Happy Boating,
David Jost
In a message dated 11/6/00 8:16:07 PM Central Standard Time,
thedemings@...writes:
<< If you get banjo noise,
tighten up the straps some more. >>
I've found that the simple expedient of introducing a twist or two into flat
straps does wonders to suppress their tendency to flutter and make a racket.
Bill in MN
thedemings@...writes:
<< If you get banjo noise,
tighten up the straps some more. >>
I've found that the simple expedient of introducing a twist or two into flat
straps does wonders to suppress their tendency to flutter and make a racket.
Bill in MN
In a message dated 11/6/00 7:46:56 PM Central Standard Time,
sonicwonder@...writes:
<< Sorry for my ignorance, but what is a bight? >>
My knotology terminology is shaky at best - by a "bight" I just mean a loop.
In this instance I make the loop in the "standing part" (sic?) of the line
running to the bumper with a simple overhand knot (which becomes utterly
un-tyable quickly, at least without assistance from a fid - that's why my
ropes are "dedicated"); when tying the half-hitch I just make a loop and tie
the knot using the loop instead of the free end - this leaves a free rope end
that can just be tugged on to free that knot.
Defininition of a "bow-line" - either a line attached to the bow or a
"bowline" knot. I'm sure you are familiar with the latter. I've got through
life only using about 3 knots and a bowline is the first I learned after
learning to tie my shoes and the difference between a "square knot" and a
"granny knot". No knotsman me, I still mentally do the "rabbit out of its
hole, goes around the tree and back down the hole" bit, although I fancy I
can do it without anyone suspecting as long as I can keep my lips from moving.
Ciao for Niao,
happy cartopping
Bill in MN
sonicwonder@...writes:
<< Sorry for my ignorance, but what is a bight? >>
My knotology terminology is shaky at best - by a "bight" I just mean a loop.
In this instance I make the loop in the "standing part" (sic?) of the line
running to the bumper with a simple overhand knot (which becomes utterly
un-tyable quickly, at least without assistance from a fid - that's why my
ropes are "dedicated"); when tying the half-hitch I just make a loop and tie
the knot using the loop instead of the free end - this leaves a free rope end
that can just be tugged on to free that knot.
Defininition of a "bow-line" - either a line attached to the bow or a
"bowline" knot. I'm sure you are familiar with the latter. I've got through
life only using about 3 knots and a bowline is the first I learned after
learning to tie my shoes and the difference between a "square knot" and a
"granny knot". No knotsman me, I still mentally do the "rabbit out of its
hole, goes around the tree and back down the hole" bit, although I fancy I
can do it without anyone suspecting as long as I can keep my lips from moving.
Ciao for Niao,
happy cartopping
Bill in MN
Take a small rope and put the standing length in your
left hand. MAke a loop with the loop towards you and
cross the standing line.
Pull the second loop from behind the first loopso it
looks like a figure 8 knot.
Pull a third loop throught thd backside of the second
loop.
Pull on the standing line and on the line or bight
exiting the second loop to gently tighten this knot
leaving the third loop open.
Loop the bight around a fixed object like a post or a
foot and return the line to the third loop and pass
through it. In essence this creates a 4th loop.
Assuming the standing line is fastened to something
pull the line to tighten the 4th loop , and you can
adjust the length of this loop, to tighten the load or
pull pressure on the "standing" length.
Tie of with a half hitch.
When you remove this knot, you simply pull on hte
standing line and teh bight to undo the loops and the
knot comes completely undone.
With a large enough rope and both diamenter and length
a single person can pull close to 1,000 lbs. of
tension with this knot.
In hte mountian climbing world and logging world it is
also called a Z-pully hitch.
I hope I am clear enough.
If necessary I'll go to a drawing program and make a
file showing in sections what I am trying to describe.
Roger
---KF4call@...wrote:
Do You Yahoo!?
Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/
left hand. MAke a loop with the loop towards you and
cross the standing line.
Pull the second loop from behind the first loopso it
looks like a figure 8 knot.
Pull a third loop throught thd backside of the second
loop.
Pull on the standing line and on the line or bight
exiting the second loop to gently tighten this knot
leaving the third loop open.
Loop the bight around a fixed object like a post or a
foot and return the line to the third loop and pass
through it. In essence this creates a 4th loop.
Assuming the standing line is fastened to something
pull the line to tighten the 4th loop , and you can
adjust the length of this loop, to tighten the load or
pull pressure on the "standing" length.
Tie of with a half hitch.
When you remove this knot, you simply pull on hte
standing line and teh bight to undo the loops and the
knot comes completely undone.
With a large enough rope and both diamenter and length
a single person can pull close to 1,000 lbs. of
tension with this knot.
In hte mountian climbing world and logging world it is
also called a Z-pully hitch.
I hope I am clear enough.
If necessary I'll go to a drawing program and make a
file showing in sections what I am trying to describe.
Roger
---KF4call@...wrote:
> NOW FOR THE SECRET. Put__________________________________________________
> another loop through teh second loop so you have
> three
> in a row. This puts the tension for the knot on hte
> second loop and not on hte knot. Tie off with a
> couple of half hitches and secure the last knkot so
> it
> cannot come undone.
>
> Roger,
>
> I use my version of the truckers hitch quite a
> bit. However it sounds
> like yours is superior, although I cannot quite
> visualize the part described
> above. Can I ask you to try the description again ,
> especially the part with
> the second and third loops? Thanks.
>
> Best regards, Warren
>
Do You Yahoo!?
Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/
An option is to split a swimming noodle and slip over the gunwhale. Do wash
off the dust underneath (on the car) as it's abrasive.
- Gregg Carlson
At 01:02 PM 11/7/2000 -0800, you wrote:
off the dust underneath (on the car) as it's abrasive.
- Gregg Carlson
At 01:02 PM 11/7/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>Sounds good so far.
>If you use carpet is it rubber backed or a piece of
>scrap. The backing on regular scrap will destroy your
>paint job. You can almost sand a floor with some.
>Do the oarlocks rise above the Gunwales? This could
>be a problem as well as pressure on the spoiler.
>On the rack, are the feet as wide and as long as they
>can go without falling off the car?
>This will help stabilize the rack and load on the
>vehicle.
>What part of the world do you Occupy? I'm in NW Ohio.
>If you hook a clamp to a door, it will not open. A
>real problem getting in and out.
>The window clips might fit under a gutter depending on
>their design don't remember if your vehicle has a
>gutter and I don't have one on the lot to check.
>Sounds like your on your way to fun and adventure.
>Have fun and take photos of your first attempt to load
>the boat so we all can reminisce and laugh with you.
>Roger
>
>
>---sonicwonder@...wrote:
>> > What are the condition of your tires, brakes, and
>> > shocks. Can't say enough. especially shocks.
>> > Do you have a gutter on your car. The design
>> varies
>> > wildly based on this.
>> > Lift is another factor.
>>
>> Wow! Looks like getting the boat to the destination
>> is going to be
>> harder than actually building the darn thing! :))
>>
>> > What type of vehicle do you drive?
>>
>> '92 Honda Civic with a rear spoiler.
>>
>> > This is not easy but if you give me a few things
>> about
>> > your car I might be able to come up with a few
>> > inexpensive ideas.
>>
>> What I have devised thus far is as follows:
>>
>> I tore apart the original Econo-rack so that I had
>> only the bottom
>> aluminum grid (|) with the roof top A-brackets (X)
>> and gutter clamps
>> in place.
>>
>> Top View:
>>
>> | | | |
>> ========================
>> X | | X
>> | | | |
>> | | | |
>> | | | |
>> X | | X
>> ========================
>> | | | |
>>
>> Side View:
>>
>>
>> == ==
>> |||||||||||||||||||
>> X X
>>
>> Detail of A-Bracket:
>>
>>
>> /\
>> / \ Steel Bracket
>> / \
>> OOO OOO Rubber Legs
>>
>> The grid is not particularly strong but will serve
>> to space the two
>> 2x4 cross members (=) which I am going to bolt to
>> it. They
>> will be covered with scrap carpet and foam. Skiffy's
>> gunwales will
>> rest against these. The 2x4's will be mounted
>> directly above the
>> A-brackets (which are fairly strong) so the
>> aluminium grid shouldn't
>> be overly loaded. The gutter clamps that are on the
>> system are the
>> type that have a nylon strap with a metal c-bracket
>> that secures under
>> each car-door window. This is the only thing that is
>> holding the
>> entire rack in place and is the part of this system
>> I am most afraid
>> will fail. I am considering securing the entire
>> assmembly to the car
>> with a pair of those 20' nylon rachet belts which
>> will go around the
>> hull of the boat and around into the driver's side
>> window and out the
>> passenger side window. These, however, are EXPENSIVE
>> so I would rather
>> forgo their inclusion unless absolutely necessary.
>> I have already
>> stretched my budget past the point of comfort
>> (starving artist :]) so
>> inexpensive DIY options are most appreciated.
>>
>> I plan of single handing the boat up to the top of
>> the rack. What I
>> was thinking of doing was resting the bow of the
>> boat on a carpet
>> which has been placed on the car and then simply
>> sliding the boat up
>> to the rack where I will remove the carpet and
>> secure the boat.
>>
>> Sound like a workable plan?
>>
>>
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place.
>http://shopping.yahoo.com/
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing
>- stay on topic
>- use punctuation
>- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
>- add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
>
>
Sounds good so far.
If you use carpet is it rubber backed or a piece of
scrap. The backing on regular scrap will destroy your
paint job. You can almost sand a floor with some.
Do the oarlocks rise above the Gunwales? This could
be a problem as well as pressure on the spoiler.
On the rack, are the feet as wide and as long as they
can go without falling off the car?
This will help stabilize the rack and load on the
vehicle.
What part of the world do you Occupy? I'm in NW Ohio.
If you hook a clamp to a door, it will not open. A
real problem getting in and out.
The window clips might fit under a gutter depending on
their design don't remember if your vehicle has a
gutter and I don't have one on the lot to check.
Sounds like your on your way to fun and adventure.
Have fun and take photos of your first attempt to load
the boat so we all can reminisce and laugh with you.
Roger
---sonicwonder@...wrote:
Do You Yahoo!?
Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/
If you use carpet is it rubber backed or a piece of
scrap. The backing on regular scrap will destroy your
paint job. You can almost sand a floor with some.
Do the oarlocks rise above the Gunwales? This could
be a problem as well as pressure on the spoiler.
On the rack, are the feet as wide and as long as they
can go without falling off the car?
This will help stabilize the rack and load on the
vehicle.
What part of the world do you Occupy? I'm in NW Ohio.
If you hook a clamp to a door, it will not open. A
real problem getting in and out.
The window clips might fit under a gutter depending on
their design don't remember if your vehicle has a
gutter and I don't have one on the lot to check.
Sounds like your on your way to fun and adventure.
Have fun and take photos of your first attempt to load
the boat so we all can reminisce and laugh with you.
Roger
---sonicwonder@...wrote:
> > What are the condition of your tires, brakes, and__________________________________________________
> > shocks. Can't say enough. especially shocks.
> > Do you have a gutter on your car. The design
> varies
> > wildly based on this.
> > Lift is another factor.
>
> Wow! Looks like getting the boat to the destination
> is going to be
> harder than actually building the darn thing! :))
>
> > What type of vehicle do you drive?
>
> '92 Honda Civic with a rear spoiler.
>
> > This is not easy but if you give me a few things
> about
> > your car I might be able to come up with a few
> > inexpensive ideas.
>
> What I have devised thus far is as follows:
>
> I tore apart the original Econo-rack so that I had
> only the bottom
> aluminum grid (|) with the roof top A-brackets (X)
> and gutter clamps
> in place.
>
> Top View:
>
> | | | |
> ========================
> X | | X
> | | | |
> | | | |
> | | | |
> X | | X
> ========================
> | | | |
>
> Side View:
>
>
> == ==
> |||||||||||||||||||
> X X
>
> Detail of A-Bracket:
>
>
> /\
> / \ Steel Bracket
> / \
> OOO OOO Rubber Legs
>
> The grid is not particularly strong but will serve
> to space the two
> 2x4 cross members (=) which I am going to bolt to
> it. They
> will be covered with scrap carpet and foam. Skiffy's
> gunwales will
> rest against these. The 2x4's will be mounted
> directly above the
> A-brackets (which are fairly strong) so the
> aluminium grid shouldn't
> be overly loaded. The gutter clamps that are on the
> system are the
> type that have a nylon strap with a metal c-bracket
> that secures under
> each car-door window. This is the only thing that is
> holding the
> entire rack in place and is the part of this system
> I am most afraid
> will fail. I am considering securing the entire
> assmembly to the car
> with a pair of those 20' nylon rachet belts which
> will go around the
> hull of the boat and around into the driver's side
> window and out the
> passenger side window. These, however, are EXPENSIVE
> so I would rather
> forgo their inclusion unless absolutely necessary.
> I have already
> stretched my budget past the point of comfort
> (starving artist :]) so
> inexpensive DIY options are most appreciated.
>
> I plan of single handing the boat up to the top of
> the rack. What I
> was thinking of doing was resting the bow of the
> boat on a carpet
> which has been placed on the car and then simply
> sliding the boat up
> to the rack where I will remove the carpet and
> secure the boat.
>
> Sound like a workable plan?
>
>
Do You Yahoo!?
Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/
I have an 11' shellback dinghy - weighs about 90 lbs that I cartop
regularly. I used the roof racks sort of like the expensive Thule but
I got these as a gift. They consist of a cross beam with two braces
that mount to the roof gutter. I put two of these on top of the car.
On top of that I put a wooden structure that consists of a 2' by 4'
piece of plywood running lengthwise fore and aft. At the front and
back of this I laid 5' 1x6 pieces running lengthwise from side to
side to form a letter H. Finally, another 2' by 4' piece of plywood
on top of the first piece of plywood. The plywood is 3/8". All the
wood is fastened together with glue and screws and filler boards are
added along the edges of the plywood to form a thin box. The ends of
the 1x6s have short pieces of 2x4 for stops to keep the boat from
sliding off sideways. Also these stops are cushioned with old rags
stapled on to keep from scratching the boat. The 1x6s act as springs
if I hit bumps. After placing the boat on top I use three red nylon
packing straps with ratchet buckles. You can find these at the big
home improvement stores where you get the wood for a couple of dollars
a piece.
The total cost of this arrangement except for the roof racks
themselves is maybe $25. I used it successfully to cartop the dinghy
from Maryland to Alabama - a 12 hour ride. Once the cops were passing
me and paused for a quick look then continued on.
In addition, getting the boat on and off the car is easy if I use the
wheels mounted on the transom of the boat. I turn the boat upside
down and mount the wheels. Then I can lift the bow, walk it to the
back of the rack and set it down, then walk to the stern, pick that up
and slide the whole boat on. To get the boat off I reverse the
process.
Good luck.
Will
regularly. I used the roof racks sort of like the expensive Thule but
I got these as a gift. They consist of a cross beam with two braces
that mount to the roof gutter. I put two of these on top of the car.
On top of that I put a wooden structure that consists of a 2' by 4'
piece of plywood running lengthwise fore and aft. At the front and
back of this I laid 5' 1x6 pieces running lengthwise from side to
side to form a letter H. Finally, another 2' by 4' piece of plywood
on top of the first piece of plywood. The plywood is 3/8". All the
wood is fastened together with glue and screws and filler boards are
added along the edges of the plywood to form a thin box. The ends of
the 1x6s have short pieces of 2x4 for stops to keep the boat from
sliding off sideways. Also these stops are cushioned with old rags
stapled on to keep from scratching the boat. The 1x6s act as springs
if I hit bumps. After placing the boat on top I use three red nylon
packing straps with ratchet buckles. You can find these at the big
home improvement stores where you get the wood for a couple of dollars
a piece.
The total cost of this arrangement except for the roof racks
themselves is maybe $25. I used it successfully to cartop the dinghy
from Maryland to Alabama - a 12 hour ride. Once the cops were passing
me and paused for a quick look then continued on.
In addition, getting the boat on and off the car is easy if I use the
wheels mounted on the transom of the boat. I turn the boat upside
down and mount the wheels. Then I can lift the bow, walk it to the
back of the rack and set it down, then walk to the stern, pick that up
and slide the whole boat on. To get the boat off I reverse the
process.
Good luck.
Will
--- Inbolger@egroups.com, sonicwonder@h... wrote:
> Hi gang. I'm happy to say that Skiffy is now officially a
> boat. Pictures are up in the "Skiffy" folder in the files section of
> the group. I was slated for launch this weekend but I have been so
> busy building the boat I gave no consideration as to how I would get
> it to the water! When I went to grab my dad's economy car-top
> system, it flexed wildly under even minimal amounts of pressure; I
> dared not put my boat on it! I am in the midst of taking off the
> actual framing while using the rubber legs and window cleats to
affix
> a custom 6'x3' wooden rig to the top of the car. Hopefully this will
> not flex as much. Anyone have any cartopping wisdom so I can get
> Skiffy into the water next weekend? I'm dying to try her out!
NOW FOR THE SECRET. Put
another loop through teh second loop so you have three
in a row. This puts the tension for the knot on hte
second loop and not on hte knot. Tie off with a
couple of half hitches and secure the last knkot so it
cannot come undone.
Roger,
I use my version of the truckers hitch quite a bit. However it sounds
like yours is superior, although I cannot quite visualize the part described
above. Can I ask you to try the description again , especially the part with
the second and third loops? Thanks.
Best regards, Warren
another loop through teh second loop so you have three
in a row. This puts the tension for the knot on hte
second loop and not on hte knot. Tie off with a
couple of half hitches and secure the last knkot so it
cannot come undone.
Roger,
I use my version of the truckers hitch quite a bit. However it sounds
like yours is superior, although I cannot quite visualize the part described
above. Can I ask you to try the description again , especially the part with
the second and third loops? Thanks.
Best regards, Warren
> What are the condition of your tires, brakes, andWow! Looks like getting the boat to the destination is going to be
> shocks. Can't say enough. especially shocks.
> Do you have a gutter on your car. The design varies
> wildly based on this.
> Lift is another factor.
harder than actually building the darn thing! :))
> What type of vehicle do you drive?'92 Honda Civic with a rear spoiler.
> This is not easy but if you give me a few things aboutWhat I have devised thus far is as follows:
> your car I might be able to come up with a few
> inexpensive ideas.
I tore apart the original Econo-rack so that I had only the bottom
aluminum grid (|) with the roof top A-brackets (X) and gutter clamps
in place.
Top View:
| | | |
========================
X | | X
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
X | | X
========================
| | | |
Side View:
== ==
|||||||||||||||||||
X X
Detail of A-Bracket:
/\
/ \ Steel Bracket
/ \
OOO OOO Rubber Legs
The grid is not particularly strong but will serve to space the two
2x4 cross members (=) which I am going to bolt to it. They
will be covered with scrap carpet and foam. Skiffy's gunwales will
rest against these. The 2x4's will be mounted directly above the
A-brackets (which are fairly strong) so the aluminium grid shouldn't
be overly loaded. The gutter clamps that are on the system are the
type that have a nylon strap with a metal c-bracket that secures under
each car-door window. This is the only thing that is holding the
entire rack in place and is the part of this system I am most afraid
will fail. I am considering securing the entire assmembly to the car
with a pair of those 20' nylon rachet belts which will go around the
hull of the boat and around into the driver's side window and out the
passenger side window. These, however, are EXPENSIVE so I would rather
forgo their inclusion unless absolutely necessary. I have already
stretched my budget past the point of comfort (starving artist :]) so
inexpensive DIY options are most appreciated.
I plan of single handing the boat up to the top of the rack. What I
was thinking of doing was resting the bow of the boat on a carpet
which has been placed on the car and then simply sliding the boat up
to the rack where I will remove the carpet and secure the boat.
Sound like a workable plan?
No but it helps define the question.
I believe you are hauling a 12ft boat on a 12ft car.
If you don't have a rack, you can get notched foam for
canoes which with minor enlargeing will work for you.
A bow line is simply tied to teh bow of the boat. I
remember the first time I asked that question.
Do not I repeat DO NOT tie off to the bumper. In some
states this will give you a citation. There are tow
hooks or plates with large holes in them for towing,
tie to these being caful not to put the rope on a
metal edge without adding padding, htis could be a
rag tied through the hole first to soften the edge.
the standing part of the line is the part fastened to
an object or is going to tied to an object and usually
has a fixed length aspect to it.
the bight end, is the loose end and usually is
"running' past you to be part of the trailing or end
knot.
The three loop is called a z-pully and was developed
by farmers for tiging their loads on to a wagon. If
yo have any question as to it's reletive strength, I
used to use 10,000 lb nylon rope tied high in one tree
and fastened to the base of another and
single-handedly could almost pull the tree over. I
have used this knot to bend trees more than 30 degrees
to force them to fall where I wanted them to.
Improperly tied to your car and boat will break the
back fo your boat.
As I said eariler, tie it on during the week and drive
arount the block. This will help you get the feeling
for how tight you can fasten the boat with out braking
it. Remember the boat should not move around or lift
from the car while traveling at any time.
Fastening through the dooc can cut the ropes or tie
the door shut. Do this as a last extreme. The rope
will also interfere with your ability to drive.
Another citation. Tying to teh twarts as was
previously suggested is a good idea and keep the ropes
going to teh vehicle as wide as possible. Pad them
where they touch paint or you will rub some off. Rags
are fine for this.
I think you'll do just fine as there are lots of
intellegent people in this group with lots of wisdom
and experiance to help.
---sonicwonder@...wrote:
Do You Yahoo!?
Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/
I believe you are hauling a 12ft boat on a 12ft car.
If you don't have a rack, you can get notched foam for
canoes which with minor enlargeing will work for you.
A bow line is simply tied to teh bow of the boat. I
remember the first time I asked that question.
Do not I repeat DO NOT tie off to the bumper. In some
states this will give you a citation. There are tow
hooks or plates with large holes in them for towing,
tie to these being caful not to put the rope on a
metal edge without adding padding, htis could be a
rag tied through the hole first to soften the edge.
the standing part of the line is the part fastened to
an object or is going to tied to an object and usually
has a fixed length aspect to it.
the bight end, is the loose end and usually is
"running' past you to be part of the trailing or end
knot.
The three loop is called a z-pully and was developed
by farmers for tiging their loads on to a wagon. If
yo have any question as to it's reletive strength, I
used to use 10,000 lb nylon rope tied high in one tree
and fastened to the base of another and
single-handedly could almost pull the tree over. I
have used this knot to bend trees more than 30 degrees
to force them to fall where I wanted them to.
Improperly tied to your car and boat will break the
back fo your boat.
As I said eariler, tie it on during the week and drive
arount the block. This will help you get the feeling
for how tight you can fasten the boat with out braking
it. Remember the boat should not move around or lift
from the car while traveling at any time.
Fastening through the dooc can cut the ropes or tie
the door shut. Do this as a last extreme. The rope
will also interfere with your ability to drive.
Another citation. Tying to teh twarts as was
previously suggested is a good idea and keep the ropes
going to teh vehicle as wide as possible. Pad them
where they touch paint or you will rub some off. Rags
are fine for this.
I think you'll do just fine as there are lots of
intellegent people in this group with lots of wisdom
and experiance to help.
---sonicwonder@...wrote:
>__________________________________________________
> > I use
> > "dedicated" lines with a bight formed in the
> standing part a
> suitable height
> > above the bumper which I run the running part
> through to get a
> two-part
> > purchase, then tie off the running end on the
> bight with a
> half-hitch with a
> > bight of its own for ease of untying.
>
> Sorry for my ignorance, but what is a bight? Also,
> in my
> cxartopping research there is a lot of talk about a
> "bow-line". What
> exactly is this and how is it attached to the boat?
> Is the bow-line
> supposed to be attached to the car body at the front
> or rear bumper?
> Thanks for any clarification! BTW, I'm cartopping
> Skiffy on a '92
> Honda Civic with a spoiler if that is of any
> consequence ...
>
>
Do You Yahoo!?
Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/
The truckers hitch was formulated in the farmlands.
make a loop in the line. While holding hte standing
end and the loop, insert a loop from the hanging end
through the first loop. NOW FOR THE SECRET. Put
another loop through teh second loop so you have three
in a row. This puts the tension for the knot on hte
second loop and not on hte knot. Tie off with a
couple of half hitches and secure the last knkot so it
cannot come undone. Doing the third loop allows you
to remove the presence of the knot by simply pulling
on the rope.
I would also tie the bow section first being careful
not to lift the stern more than an inch at most. This
will help eliminate undue stree on the boat and the
rack system. Tying theboat to tightly to teh car can
damage the boat, rack or car and end up with a pile of
toothpicks on hte side of hte road. Tying the boat to
loosely will result in the same result. My
suggestion is to put the boat on hte car and drive
around the block a few times during hte week to test
the line for stretch and your knot system for
secureness. This way you can work out a few bugs
prior to the weekend trip.
Roger
---wmrpage@...wrote:
Do You Yahoo!?
Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/
make a loop in the line. While holding hte standing
end and the loop, insert a loop from the hanging end
through the first loop. NOW FOR THE SECRET. Put
another loop through teh second loop so you have three
in a row. This puts the tension for the knot on hte
second loop and not on hte knot. Tie off with a
couple of half hitches and secure the last knkot so it
cannot come undone. Doing the third loop allows you
to remove the presence of the knot by simply pulling
on the rope.
I would also tie the bow section first being careful
not to lift the stern more than an inch at most. This
will help eliminate undue stree on the boat and the
rack system. Tying theboat to tightly to teh car can
damage the boat, rack or car and end up with a pile of
toothpicks on hte side of hte road. Tying the boat to
loosely will result in the same result. My
suggestion is to put the boat on hte car and drive
around the block a few times during hte week to test
the line for stretch and your knot system for
secureness. This way you can work out a few bugs
prior to the weekend trip.
Roger
---wmrpage@...wrote:
> In a message dated 11/6/00 5:24:40 PM Central__________________________________________________
> Standard Time,
>sonicwonder@...writes:
>
> << Anyone have any cartopping wisdom so I can get
> Skiffy into the water next weekend? I'm dying to
> try her out! >>
>
> I've cartopped lots of canoes using (I think) most
> of the systems available.
> Strengthing the cross-bars of a cheap suction-cup
> and gutter clamp rack with
> common 2 X 4's is not the worst system, however it
> is far from optimal and
> the cups will fail in short order, causing metal
> bits to gouge the paint on
> your roof. If you plan to car top regularly, there
> is really no good
> substitute (IMHO) for the very good, albeit
> expensive, racks sold by Thule
> and Yakima. If you are using the budget racks it is
> a very good idea to tie
> your boat off to the car independently of the racks.
> (actually I do the same
> with my Thule racks, but I arrived at my
> belt-and-suspenders approach through
> trial and error before I affluent enough or wise
> enough to invest in good
> racks) One common mistake I see in cartopping is to
> run the lines from bow
> and stern to front and rear bumpers so that the boat
> is in effect loaded in
> compression. The bow lines all seem to eventually
> slacken off when done this
> way, allowing the boat to yaw from side to side
> under wind loads. Much
> better practice is to run lines from thwarts or
> other suitable attachment
> points aft to rear bumper and forward to the front
> bumper - pulling these
> tight will really keep the boat securely locked down
> - I tie off the aft
> lines first, then pull the front lines good and
> taut. I believe that there
> is a neat knot known as a trucker's hitch that would
> be ideal for the purpose
> and would be really "shippy", but I've never learned
> how to tie it. I use
> "dedicated" lines with a bight formed in the
> standing part a suitable height
> above the bumper which I run the running part
> through to get a two-part
> purchase, then tie off the running end on the bight
> with a half-hitch with a
> bight of its own for ease of untying. Inelegant, but
> it gets the job done.
>
> Bill in MN
>
Do You Yahoo!?
Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/
I have designed several rack systems for cross country
transportation of goods from 30'X8" platforms to
loading your furniture.
What are the condition of your tires, brakes, and
shocks. Can't say enough. especially shocks.
Do you have a gutter on your car. The design varies
wildly based on this.
Lift is another factor. You MUST be able to eliminate
as much lift as possible. Even to the point of having
a very slight down pressure. This is accomplished
several ways including how the boat will be positioned
on the car relative to the windshield and rear window.
The length of the boat vs length of the car and the
length of the passenger compartment is another factor.
How will/do you plan on fastening the bow to eliminate
torque and side swing.
What type of vehicle do you drive? Will a custom twin
mount hitch with a cross bar help fasten the length.
This is not easy but if you give me a few things about
your car I might be able to come up with a few
inexpensive ideas.
I used to car top an 18ft canoe on a 12ft car with no
difficulty.
I built a 1" twin mount to towing spec's on the front
end, used a vertical bar in the rear and also fastened
a roof system in the middle. It felt so solid , if
the boat had been wide enough it might have floated
the vehicle upside down.
I think I spent $30 or $40 on the rig.
Besides looking funny going down the road, I had to
observe over length considerations while driving.
Roger
---sonicwonder@...wrote:
Do You Yahoo!?
Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/
transportation of goods from 30'X8" platforms to
loading your furniture.
What are the condition of your tires, brakes, and
shocks. Can't say enough. especially shocks.
Do you have a gutter on your car. The design varies
wildly based on this.
Lift is another factor. You MUST be able to eliminate
as much lift as possible. Even to the point of having
a very slight down pressure. This is accomplished
several ways including how the boat will be positioned
on the car relative to the windshield and rear window.
The length of the boat vs length of the car and the
length of the passenger compartment is another factor.
How will/do you plan on fastening the bow to eliminate
torque and side swing.
What type of vehicle do you drive? Will a custom twin
mount hitch with a cross bar help fasten the length.
This is not easy but if you give me a few things about
your car I might be able to come up with a few
inexpensive ideas.
I used to car top an 18ft canoe on a 12ft car with no
difficulty.
I built a 1" twin mount to towing spec's on the front
end, used a vertical bar in the rear and also fastened
a roof system in the middle. It felt so solid , if
the boat had been wide enough it might have floated
the vehicle upside down.
I think I spent $30 or $40 on the rig.
Besides looking funny going down the road, I had to
observe over length considerations while driving.
Roger
---sonicwonder@...wrote:
> Hi gang. I'm happy to say that Skiffy is now__________________________________________________
> officially a
> boat. Pictures are up in the "Skiffy" folder in the
> files section of
> the group. I was slated for launch this weekend but
> I have been so
> busy building the boat I gave no consideration as to
> how I would get
> it to the water! When I went to grab my dad's
> economy car-top
> system, it flexed wildly under even minimal amounts
> of pressure; I
> dared not put my boat on it! I am in the midst of
> taking off the
> actual framing while using the rubber legs and
> window cleats to affix
> a custom 6'x3' wooden rig to the top of the car.
> Hopefully this will
> not flex as much. Anyone have any cartopping wisdom
> so I can get
> Skiffy into the water next weekend? I'm dying to try
> her out!
>
>
Do You Yahoo!?
Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/
Sorry,
Here is a direct link to the picture of my contraption.
http://smallboat.homepage.com/skiff/launch/pslaunch.html
Rich
Still in sunny Florida
Here is a direct link to the picture of my contraption.
http://smallboat.homepage.com/skiff/launch/pslaunch.html
Rich
Still in sunny Florida
>Anyone have any cartopping wisdom so I can getWhat I did with my Pointy Skiff is to take a 2x4x8 cut it in half and
> Skiffy into the water next weekend? I'm dying to try her out!
then split it on my table saw (2x2's will work, but the 2x4 came out
less money). I also picked up some 1" wide flat steel (about 1/4"
thick) which I bent into 4 U's. I drilled through them and the now
2x2's and bolted them on. I also picked up some gutter straps that I
attached to the U's.
I bought some sction cups, but save your money the skiff is much to
heavy for them. The bolts ripped right out of the ruber and gouged my
roof the first time I tried to slide the boat on the 2x2's. Lucky me,
I had my canoe foam blocks (they attach to the gunnels on a canoe for
cartopping). I just spread them open in placed them in place of the
suction cups and ran the gutter straps right down the middle. Works
great. Tie the bow to the front bumper, transom to the back and then
a wrap across from one side to the other connecting on the 2x2's.
I've had the car up to 55 with no problems. If you get banjo noise,
tighten up the straps some more. Also, add a couple of small pieces
of rope on the bow strap to act like the little tabs on a car bra. I
don't know why it works, just that it does.
To get the boat up single handed (well 2 hands, one person) I rigged
a pole with a V basket that goes over a stud (inplace of the trailer
ball). I place the transom in the basket, go to the bow, pick it up
and walk it around to the top of the car. I then push the boat
further towards the front of the car. If the pole/basket was made
much sturdier, you could leave it in and clamp in place. I met an
older couple that had a similar rig they had bought at sears in the
50's.
Works for me. Hope this helps. You can see it at
http://smallboat.homepage.com
I'll have better pictures of it in the future.
Happy first launch. Let us know how it goes.
Rich in sunny Florida
Home of the Gators
Both my sister and I have '92 Civics. She's got the full on Yakima
rack with stretch kit. If you've got the bucks, it's a pretty nice
set up, I'd put a Zephyr on the roof with it, though it'll probably
set you back more than the boat.
134 W.26th St. 12th Floor
New York, NY 10001
(212) 243-1636
rack with stretch kit. If you've got the bucks, it's a pretty nice
set up, I'd put a Zephyr on the roof with it, though it'll probably
set you back more than the boat.
>Thanks for any clarification! BTW, I'm cartopping Skiffy on a '92CRUMBLING EMPIRE PRODUCTIONS
>Honda Civic with a spoiler if that is of any consequence ...
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing
>- stay on topic
>- use punctuation
>- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
>- add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
134 W.26th St. 12th Floor
New York, NY 10001
(212) 243-1636
> I usesuitable height
> "dedicated" lines with a bight formed in the standing part a
> above the bumper which I run the running part through to get atwo-part
> purchase, then tie off the running end on the bight with ahalf-hitch with a
> bight of its own for ease of untying.Sorry for my ignorance, but what is a bight? Also, in my
cxartopping research there is a lot of talk about a "bow-line". What
exactly is this and how is it attached to the boat? Is the bow-line
supposed to be attached to the car body at the front or rear bumper?
Thanks for any clarification! BTW, I'm cartopping Skiffy on a '92
Honda Civic with a spoiler if that is of any consequence ...
Here's a system for long-distance trips. What I do with my Gypsy --
and this withstood a 7-hour drive, with much of it at 70 mph on the
Mass Pike -- is:
1) two big nylon belts tight around the hull (& spars) and through
the windows of the car
2) tie bow and stern to bumpers
3) and add little 2" blocks of wood hose-clamped to the rack ends
hard by the gunwales to prevent any sideways sliding.
It's overkill, but it feels great as you drive on a long trip,
not having to worry. I leave the wooden blocks more or less
permanently attached to the rack. For shorter, slower trips, one belt
plus bow line is enough. The forward wooden blocks are positioned at
the narrowing of the forward half of the boat -- so they wedge up and
prevent any forward sliding when you brake.
Gypsy requires the 58" crossbars for your rack, even though my
little car is supposed to take only the 50-inchers. Maybe the same
for Pointy Skiff?
All best,
Garth
and this withstood a 7-hour drive, with much of it at 70 mph on the
Mass Pike -- is:
1) two big nylon belts tight around the hull (& spars) and through
the windows of the car
2) tie bow and stern to bumpers
3) and add little 2" blocks of wood hose-clamped to the rack ends
hard by the gunwales to prevent any sideways sliding.
It's overkill, but it feels great as you drive on a long trip,
not having to worry. I leave the wooden blocks more or less
permanently attached to the rack. For shorter, slower trips, one belt
plus bow line is enough. The forward wooden blocks are positioned at
the narrowing of the forward half of the boat -- so they wedge up and
prevent any forward sliding when you brake.
Gypsy requires the 58" crossbars for your rack, even though my
little car is supposed to take only the 50-inchers. Maybe the same
for Pointy Skiff?
All best,
Garth
> << Anyone have any cartopping wisdom so I can get
> Skiffy into the water next weekend? I'm dying to try her out! >>
>
In a message dated 11/6/00 5:24:40 PM Central Standard Time,
sonicwonder@...writes:
<< Anyone have any cartopping wisdom so I can get
Skiffy into the water next weekend? I'm dying to try her out! >>
I've cartopped lots of canoes using (I think) most of the systems available.
Strengthing the cross-bars of a cheap suction-cup and gutter clamp rack with
common 2 X 4's is not the worst system, however it is far from optimal and
the cups will fail in short order, causing metal bits to gouge the paint on
your roof. If you plan to car top regularly, there is really no good
substitute (IMHO) for the very good, albeit expensive, racks sold by Thule
and Yakima. If you are using the budget racks it is a very good idea to tie
your boat off to the car independently of the racks. (actually I do the same
with my Thule racks, but I arrived at my belt-and-suspenders approach through
trial and error before I affluent enough or wise enough to invest in good
racks) One common mistake I see in cartopping is to run the lines from bow
and stern to front and rear bumpers so that the boat is in effect loaded in
compression. The bow lines all seem to eventually slacken off when done this
way, allowing the boat to yaw from side to side under wind loads. Much
better practice is to run lines from thwarts or other suitable attachment
points aft to rear bumper and forward to the front bumper - pulling these
tight will really keep the boat securely locked down - I tie off the aft
lines first, then pull the front lines good and taut. I believe that there
is a neat knot known as a trucker's hitch that would be ideal for the purpose
and would be really "shippy", but I've never learned how to tie it. I use
"dedicated" lines with a bight formed in the standing part a suitable height
above the bumper which I run the running part through to get a two-part
purchase, then tie off the running end on the bight with a half-hitch with a
bight of its own for ease of untying. Inelegant, but it gets the job done.
Bill in MN
sonicwonder@...writes:
<< Anyone have any cartopping wisdom so I can get
Skiffy into the water next weekend? I'm dying to try her out! >>
I've cartopped lots of canoes using (I think) most of the systems available.
Strengthing the cross-bars of a cheap suction-cup and gutter clamp rack with
common 2 X 4's is not the worst system, however it is far from optimal and
the cups will fail in short order, causing metal bits to gouge the paint on
your roof. If you plan to car top regularly, there is really no good
substitute (IMHO) for the very good, albeit expensive, racks sold by Thule
and Yakima. If you are using the budget racks it is a very good idea to tie
your boat off to the car independently of the racks. (actually I do the same
with my Thule racks, but I arrived at my belt-and-suspenders approach through
trial and error before I affluent enough or wise enough to invest in good
racks) One common mistake I see in cartopping is to run the lines from bow
and stern to front and rear bumpers so that the boat is in effect loaded in
compression. The bow lines all seem to eventually slacken off when done this
way, allowing the boat to yaw from side to side under wind loads. Much
better practice is to run lines from thwarts or other suitable attachment
points aft to rear bumper and forward to the front bumper - pulling these
tight will really keep the boat securely locked down - I tie off the aft
lines first, then pull the front lines good and taut. I believe that there
is a neat knot known as a trucker's hitch that would be ideal for the purpose
and would be really "shippy", but I've never learned how to tie it. I use
"dedicated" lines with a bight formed in the standing part a suitable height
above the bumper which I run the running part through to get a two-part
purchase, then tie off the running end on the bight with a half-hitch with a
bight of its own for ease of untying. Inelegant, but it gets the job done.
Bill in MN
FBBB --
Until recently when I need to move my teal from place to place, I
tied a couple of 2x4s on the roof of my Honda and tied the boat to
the 2x4s. But I just got my hitch today, so I guess my car-topping
days are over. Hovever, in 15 years of putting boats on my roof I
have learned a few things.
Cambuckle straps are best, rope is good, bungie cords are bad.
The slower you go, the more you can put on your roof.
Tie down the nose. Even if everything else fails, that's often enough
Banjo music helps.
134 W.26th St. 12th Floor
New York, NY 10001
(212) 243-1636
Until recently when I need to move my teal from place to place, I
tied a couple of 2x4s on the roof of my Honda and tied the boat to
the 2x4s. But I just got my hitch today, so I guess my car-topping
days are over. Hovever, in 15 years of putting boats on my roof I
have learned a few things.
Cambuckle straps are best, rope is good, bungie cords are bad.
The slower you go, the more you can put on your roof.
Tie down the nose. Even if everything else fails, that's often enough
Banjo music helps.
>Hi gang. I'm happy to say that Skiffy is now officially aCRUMBLING EMPIRE PRODUCTIONS
>boat. Pictures are up in the "Skiffy" folder in the files section of
>the group. I was slated for launch this weekend but I have been so
>busy building the boat I gave no consideration as to how I would get
>it to the water! When I went to grab my dad's economy car-top
>system, it flexed wildly under even minimal amounts of pressure; I
>dared not put my boat on it! I am in the midst of taking off the
>actual framing while using the rubber legs and window cleats to affix
>a custom 6'x3' wooden rig to the top of the car. Hopefully this will
>not flex as much. Anyone have any cartopping wisdom so I can get
>Skiffy into the water next weekend? I'm dying to try her out!
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing
>- stay on topic
>- use punctuation
>- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
>- add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
134 W.26th St. 12th Floor
New York, NY 10001
(212) 243-1636
Hi gang. I'm happy to say that Skiffy is now officially a
boat. Pictures are up in the "Skiffy" folder in the files section of
the group. I was slated for launch this weekend but I have been so
busy building the boat I gave no consideration as to how I would get
it to the water! When I went to grab my dad's economy car-top
system, it flexed wildly under even minimal amounts of pressure; I
dared not put my boat on it! I am in the midst of taking off the
actual framing while using the rubber legs and window cleats to affix
a custom 6'x3' wooden rig to the top of the car. Hopefully this will
not flex as much. Anyone have any cartopping wisdom so I can get
Skiffy into the water next weekend? I'm dying to try her out!
boat. Pictures are up in the "Skiffy" folder in the files section of
the group. I was slated for launch this weekend but I have been so
busy building the boat I gave no consideration as to how I would get
it to the water! When I went to grab my dad's economy car-top
system, it flexed wildly under even minimal amounts of pressure; I
dared not put my boat on it! I am in the midst of taking off the
actual framing while using the rubber legs and window cleats to affix
a custom 6'x3' wooden rig to the top of the car. Hopefully this will
not flex as much. Anyone have any cartopping wisdom so I can get
Skiffy into the water next weekend? I'm dying to try her out!