Light schooner
George,
I'd love to see pics of your schooner. I have the plans but haven't started that one yet. I am currently restoring an Alberg Seasprite 23 and already have a Bolger gypsy's shapes cut but nothing assembled yet as I took possession of the Seasprite.
The light schooner is one of my favorite designs.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 12, 2016, at 6:23 PM, George Schecknothexed@...[bolger] <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
facebook does the nag screen now on most if not all their listings if you are not a facebook member. A feeble attempt for more members. Now, having said that --ENOUGH AGAIN with the facebook stuff- people either like it or have no use for it (I happen to as do many people not like it. However if this nagging keeps going on and on the yahoo group will start losing more members- me for one. If I wanted a bunch of drama I would join facebook .Excuse me while I go sail my light schooner. Buy a book read it and share with your friends and be happy.Take care all.George ScheckOn Tuesday, July 12, 2016 5:46 PM, "'John Kohnen'jhkohnen@...[bolger]" <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:Why is the Bolger Facebook group set up so you HAVE TO sign in to Facebook
to see it? So far it's still possible to have publicly accessible groups
on FB, though They now obscure part of the view with an annoying
persistent message nagging you to join up. <sigh> Anyway, what's the
advantage to blocking the public from viewing the Bolger FB group?
As you might have guessed, I'm one of those who will not do Facebook.
Aside from privacy concerns it's just too d***ed annoying...
I like the Yahoo groups because I can read and reply to postings using
email, without having to bother with Web pages. There's wonderful stuff
on the WoodenBoat forum, but I rarely visit it becaue of its Web only
format...
On Tue, 12 Jul 2016 13:00:31 -0700, Ron wrote:
> Please Susanne join Facebook and participate in the Bolger group there
> (or just read it for enjoyment).
> ...
--
John (jkohnen@...)
Nothing is really work unless you would rather be doing something else.
(Sir James Barrie)
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Bill,
With the bulkheads you dont need fillit with the logs. I filleted
mine because I used PL premium for side to bulkhead glue. I fillited
for added security.
Concerning buttblock for the sides, if I had it to do again I would
use Dynamite's method of taped joints. I had to do alot of fairing to
get my sides looking presentable.
I would definitely build the boat with scarfed logs. They are an
intrical part of the boat design. That is alot of sail for such a
light boat. The stress without the logs may tear the boat apart with
just stich and glue method.
Jim Kessler
With the bulkheads you dont need fillit with the logs. I filleted
mine because I used PL premium for side to bulkhead glue. I fillited
for added security.
Concerning buttblock for the sides, if I had it to do again I would
use Dynamite's method of taped joints. I had to do alot of fairing to
get my sides looking presentable.
I would definitely build the boat with scarfed logs. They are an
intrical part of the boat design. That is alot of sail for such a
light boat. The stress without the logs may tear the boat apart with
just stich and glue method.
Jim Kessler
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Kessler" <jkess777@...> wrote:
>
> Bill,
> I would also suggest not making limber holes in your bulkheads but
> rather leave them watertight and place dexkplates in them instead.
I
> talked to Tim Fatchen about this and he mentioned it was a very
good
> Idea.
>
> He also mentions to add water ballast to the boat by usinf 2.5"
pipe
> capping them and filling with water. Then placing them at the chine
in
> the foward and aft cockpits. Great way to add ballast. The watter
in
> the pipes in the boat becomes ballast wieght but becomes nuetral in
a
> swamp.
>
> I'll be rigging my boat stock and as a solo.
>
> Jim Kessler
>
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bill Wallace <wwostar@> wrote:
> >
> > I sam sitting in the moaning chair thinking about chine logs
and
> sheer
> > clamps for the light schooner I am about to build, not at all
happy
> about
> > the number of scarph joints I will have to make to get those long
> sticks.
> > What think you of butt blocks?
> > What think you of having them not connected at all, just
butted
> end to end?
> > What think you of having the notches in the frames very
large,
> > providing limber holes, not attched to the sheet log at all?
> > What think you of no chine logs at all, just a big fillet covered
with
> > glass tape?
> > Bill Wallace in Houston
> >
>
Bill,
I would also suggest not making limber holes in your bulkheads but
rather leave them watertight and place dexkplates in them instead. I
talked to Tim Fatchen about this and he mentioned it was a very good
Idea.
He also mentions to add water ballast to the boat by usinf 2.5" pipe
capping them and filling with water. Then placing them at the chine in
the foward and aft cockpits. Great way to add ballast. The watter in
the pipes in the boat becomes ballast wieght but becomes nuetral in a
swamp.
I'll be rigging my boat stock and as a solo.
Jim Kessler
I would also suggest not making limber holes in your bulkheads but
rather leave them watertight and place dexkplates in them instead. I
talked to Tim Fatchen about this and he mentioned it was a very good
Idea.
He also mentions to add water ballast to the boat by usinf 2.5" pipe
capping them and filling with water. Then placing them at the chine in
the foward and aft cockpits. Great way to add ballast. The watter in
the pipes in the boat becomes ballast wieght but becomes nuetral in a
swamp.
I'll be rigging my boat stock and as a solo.
Jim Kessler
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bill Wallace <wwostar@...> wrote:
>
> I sam sitting in the moaning chair thinking about chine logs and
sheer
> clamps for the light schooner I am about to build, not at all happy
about
> the number of scarph joints I will have to make to get those long
sticks.
> What think you of butt blocks?
> What think you of having them not connected at all, just butted
end to end?
> What think you of having the notches in the frames very large,
> providing limber holes, not attched to the sheet log at all?
> What think you of no chine logs at all, just a big fillet covered with
> glass tape?
> Bill Wallace in Houston
>
The scarfs are easy. I just measured in 6" from the end and used a
square to make the line. Then cut them with the skillsaw. I glued them
in place on the sides. I preglued the rubrail before application.
In one picture you see 2x4 on edge screwed to the hull sides with one
running horixontal. I used them as a neabs to solo the rubrail.
It was very simple.
Jim Kessler
square to make the line. Then cut them with the skillsaw. I glued them
in place on the sides. I preglued the rubrail before application.
In one picture you see 2x4 on edge screwed to the hull sides with one
running horixontal. I used them as a neabs to solo the rubrail.
It was very simple.
Jim Kessler
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bill Wallace <wwostar@...> wrote:
>
> I sam sitting in the moaning chair thinking about chine logs and
sheer
> clamps for the light schooner I am about to build, not at all happy
about
> the number of scarph joints I will have to make to get those long
sticks.
> What think you of butt blocks?
> What think you of having them not connected at all, just butted
end to end?
> What think you of having the notches in the frames very large,
> providing limber holes, not attched to the sheet log at all?
> What think you of no chine logs at all, just a big fillet covered with
> glass tape?
> Bill Wallace in Houston
>
Hello all,
Close to finished the slide show is here
http://s128.photobucket.com/albums/p163/jkess777/
I order the sails from Dynamite last week.
Jim
Close to finished the slide show is here
http://s128.photobucket.com/albums/p163/jkess777/
I order the sails from Dynamite last week.
Jim
Clyde's point is well taken, and I do chamfer all edges, some more than
others before painting or 'glassing. Its just too much like work to work
that fabric around all those surfaces; even with experience I don't get much
better at it.
Butt blocks vs scarfing......I'll continue to use both methods depending
upon the designer's requirements and my mood at the moment. BTW, I've taken
to gluing only when constructing a butt block; no nails, staples, screws,
etc. I'll let you know if anything comes apart. The glue? To no one's
surprise....3M 5200.
One more item. I started a stitch and glue boat...non Bolger design from
Ira Einsteen. Its mentioned in the latest Ducksworth. With Ira's
permission, I've named it a "Doryak". This basic design has some real
potential for me.
Happy building
Jim C.
others before painting or 'glassing. Its just too much like work to work
that fabric around all those surfaces; even with experience I don't get much
better at it.
Butt blocks vs scarfing......I'll continue to use both methods depending
upon the designer's requirements and my mood at the moment. BTW, I've taken
to gluing only when constructing a butt block; no nails, staples, screws,
etc. I'll let you know if anything comes apart. The glue? To no one's
surprise....3M 5200.
One more item. I started a stitch and glue boat...non Bolger design from
Ira Einsteen. Its mentioned in the latest Ducksworth. With Ira's
permission, I've named it a "Doryak". This basic design has some real
potential for me.
Happy building
Jim C.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Clyde S. Wisner [mailto:clydewis@...]
> Sent: Friday, November 17, 2000 5:07 AM
> To:bolger@egroups.com
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Light schooner
>
>
> I have found that if you taper or bevel all the edges of a block, 30-45
> degrees, before putting it on, then subsequent glassing becomes
> much easier.
> I use a high speed grinder with a coarse sanding disk. I have
> also found that
> epoxy without glass, suffers from wear and tear quickly. Clyde
>
> "Orr, Jamie" wrote:
>
> > I disagree with this -- I used butt blocks on my Chebacco, and
> the curves
> > came out fair. I can't see any flat spot, or crookedness, nor
> has anyone
> > else pointed any out, despite a dark colour and high gloss paint.
> >
> > There are advantages to both methods, and either one will give
> you a fair
> > hull if done carefully.
> >
> > Jamie Orr
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ann Romanczuk [mailto:kwilson800@...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2000 12:21 PM
> > To:bolger@egroups.com
> > Subject: [bolger] Re: Light schooner
> >
> > Butt blocks are OK for plywood panels if you don't mind a slightly
> > crooked curve.
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> > - no flogging dead horses
> > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> > - stay on topic and punctuate
> > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> - no flogging dead horses
> - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> - stay on topic and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
>
>
I have found that if you taper or bevel all the edges of a block, 30-45
degrees, before putting it on, then subsequent glassing becomes much easier.
I use a high speed grinder with a coarse sanding disk. I have also found that
epoxy without glass, suffers from wear and tear quickly. Clyde
"Orr, Jamie" wrote:
degrees, before putting it on, then subsequent glassing becomes much easier.
I use a high speed grinder with a coarse sanding disk. I have also found that
epoxy without glass, suffers from wear and tear quickly. Clyde
"Orr, Jamie" wrote:
> I disagree with this -- I used butt blocks on my Chebacco, and the curves
> came out fair. I can't see any flat spot, or crookedness, nor has anyone
> else pointed any out, despite a dark colour and high gloss paint.
>
> There are advantages to both methods, and either one will give you a fair
> hull if done carefully.
>
> Jamie Orr
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ann Romanczuk [mailto:kwilson800@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2000 12:21 PM
> To:bolger@egroups.com
> Subject: [bolger] Re: Light schooner
>
> Butt blocks are OK for plywood panels if you don't mind a slightly
> crooked curve.
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> - no flogging dead horses
> - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> - stay on topic and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
Yes, of course. The important word in "slightly crooked"
is "slightly"; if the butt blocks are in places where there isn't
much of a curve (and there isn't much of a curve anywhere in the long
skinny hull of a light schooner) they come out just fine, quite
invisible. My point was that scarf joints aren't that hard to do.
is "slightly"; if the butt blocks are in places where there isn't
much of a curve (and there isn't much of a curve anywhere in the long
skinny hull of a light schooner) they come out just fine, quite
invisible. My point was that scarf joints aren't that hard to do.
--- Inbolger@egroups.com, "Orr, Jamie" <jorr@o...> wrote:
> I disagree with this -- I used butt blocks on my Chebacco, and the
curves
> came out fair. I can't see any flat spot, or crookedness, nor has
anyone
> else pointed any out, despite a dark colour and high gloss paint.
>
> There are advantages to both methods, and either one will give you
a fair
> hull if done carefully.
>
> Jamie Orr
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ann Romanczuk [mailto:kwilson800@a...]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2000 12:21 PM
> To:bolger@egroups.com
> Subject: [bolger] Re: Light schooner
>
>
> Butt blocks are OK for plywood panels if you don't mind a slightly
> crooked curve.
yep....surprised me too how easily the taped (and sanded) seam disappeared.
I wish some of my hasty defects went away so easily.
Jim
I wish some of my hasty defects went away so easily.
Jim
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chuck Leinweber [mailto:chuck@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2000 4:32 AM
> To:bolger@egroups.com
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Light schooner
>
>
> Jim and Jamie are right, but what is even more surprising is that taped
> seams become invisible too. The first time I did one, I used a
> disk sander
> to cove the area where the two pieces of ply met, then glassed in the
> depression, and filled with thickened epoxy. That was a lot of work, so
> later during a quick and dirty boat building job, I just laid the
> tape (two
> layers) on top of the ply, and was amazed I couldn't see the
> joint. Try it.
> You'll like it.
>
> Chuck
>
>
> > I agree with Jamie on this....my Pointy Skiff is butt blocked
> and the hull
> curves
> > are fair. I think the potential for a flat spot is greater, but I would
> be
> > more concerned about the placement of internal framing in
> relationship to
> the
> > butt blocks. The PS hull butt blocks butt up against (huh?) the forward
> frame.
> >
> >
> > >I disagree with this -- I used butt blocks on my Chebacco, and
> the curves
> > >came out fair. I can't see any flat spot, or crookedness, nor
> has anyone
> > >else pointed any out, despite a dark colour and high gloss paint.
> > >
> > >There are advantages to both methods, and either one will give
> you a fair
> > >hull if done carefully.
> > >
> > >Jamie Orr
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> - no flogging dead horses
> - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> - stay on topic and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
>
>
> I disagree with this -- I used butt blocks on my Chebacco, and thecurves
> came out fair.Designers work hard to put the butt blocks where the 'flat spot'
effect would be minimal. They may have some secrets....
Peter
Parker advise the use of false butt block where the topside cross
bulkheads to *preserve* fairness and strengthen the hull.
Personally, I think fairness is wildly over-rated. There was a
crooked man who had a crooked boat...
YIBB,
David
134 W.26th St. 12th Floor
New York, NY 10001
(212) 243-1636
bulkheads to *preserve* fairness and strengthen the hull.
Personally, I think fairness is wildly over-rated. There was a
crooked man who had a crooked boat...
YIBB,
David
>I agree with Jamie on this....my Pointy Skiff is butt blocked andCRUMBLING EMPIRE PRODUCTIONS
>the hull curves
>are fair. I think the potential for a flat spot is greater, but I would be
>more concerned about the placement of internal framing in relationship to the
>butt blocks. The PS hull butt blocks butt up against (huh?) the forward frame.
>
>
>>I disagree with this -- I used butt blocks on my Chebacco, and the curves
>>came out fair. I can't see any flat spot, or crookedness, nor has anyone
>>else pointed any out, despite a dark colour and high gloss paint.
>>
>>There are advantages to both methods, and either one will give you a fair
>>hull if done carefully.
>>
>>Jamie Orr
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Ann Romanczuk [mailto:kwilson800@...]
>>Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2000 12:21 PM
>>To:bolger@egroups.com
>>Subject: [bolger] Re: Light schooner
>>
>>
>>Butt blocks are OK for plywood panels if you don't mind a slightly
>>crooked curve.
>>
>>
>>Bolger rules!!!
>>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
>>- no flogging dead horses
>>- add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
>>- stay on topic and punctuate
>>- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
>- no flogging dead horses
>- add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
>- stay on topic and punctuate
>- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
134 W.26th St. 12th Floor
New York, NY 10001
(212) 243-1636
I agree with Jamie on this....my Pointy Skiff is butt blocked and the hull curves
are fair. I think the potential for a flat spot is greater, but I would be
more concerned about the placement of internal framing in relationship to the
butt blocks. The PS hull butt blocks butt up against (huh?) the forward frame.
are fair. I think the potential for a flat spot is greater, but I would be
more concerned about the placement of internal framing in relationship to the
butt blocks. The PS hull butt blocks butt up against (huh?) the forward frame.
>I disagree with this -- I used butt blocks on my Chebacco, and the curves
>came out fair. I can't see any flat spot, or crookedness, nor has anyone
>else pointed any out, despite a dark colour and high gloss paint.
>
>There are advantages to both methods, and either one will give you a fair
>hull if done carefully.
>
>Jamie Orr
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Ann Romanczuk [mailto:kwilson800@...]
>Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2000 12:21 PM
>To:bolger@egroups.com
>Subject: [bolger] Re: Light schooner
>
>
>Butt blocks are OK for plywood panels if you don't mind a slightly
>crooked curve.
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
>- no flogging dead horses
>- add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
>- stay on topic and punctuate
>- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
>
>
>
I disagree with this -- I used butt blocks on my Chebacco, and the curves
came out fair. I can't see any flat spot, or crookedness, nor has anyone
else pointed any out, despite a dark colour and high gloss paint.
There are advantages to both methods, and either one will give you a fair
hull if done carefully.
Jamie Orr
-----Original Message-----
From: Ann Romanczuk [mailto:kwilson800@...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2000 12:21 PM
To:bolger@egroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Light schooner
Butt blocks are OK for plywood panels if you don't mind a slightly
crooked curve.
came out fair. I can't see any flat spot, or crookedness, nor has anyone
else pointed any out, despite a dark colour and high gloss paint.
There are advantages to both methods, and either one will give you a fair
hull if done carefully.
Jamie Orr
-----Original Message-----
From: Ann Romanczuk [mailto:kwilson800@...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2000 12:21 PM
To:bolger@egroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Light schooner
Butt blocks are OK for plywood panels if you don't mind a slightly
crooked curve.
Butt blocks are OK for plywood panels if you don't mind a slightly
crooked curve. You need to have them connected, since one point of
the longitudinal pieces is to give rigidity to those floppy pieces of
plywood. They have to be a continuous piece to do that. Fillets
would work fine; there are a lot of taped-seam boats out there, but
you still need to hold the whole thing together and in proper
alignment while you make the fillet. And believe me, sanding the
fiberglass tape smooth is a LOT more work than a few scarf joints. I
don't know about leaving big cutouts in the frames; might be OK.
However, scarf joints in long skinny pieces like chine logs are
almost trivial - saw them to something approximating the proper
angle, plane them both together so the angles match, then glue 'em.
Takes about five minutes once you get used to it. I only use 6:1 and
I've never had one break. Just keep the plane sharp and you'll have
no problem.
Scarfing plywood is a little more work - Scribe a line at the proper
distance from the end of the sheet, pland to a feather edge, then
back to the line, using the glue lines as a guide. it they're
straight and parallel, all's well. Clamping requires a bit more
ingenuity, but epoxy is pretty forgiving. Use a low-angle block
plane, and again, keep it d*mned sharp. Not hard at all.
crooked curve. You need to have them connected, since one point of
the longitudinal pieces is to give rigidity to those floppy pieces of
plywood. They have to be a continuous piece to do that. Fillets
would work fine; there are a lot of taped-seam boats out there, but
you still need to hold the whole thing together and in proper
alignment while you make the fillet. And believe me, sanding the
fiberglass tape smooth is a LOT more work than a few scarf joints. I
don't know about leaving big cutouts in the frames; might be OK.
However, scarf joints in long skinny pieces like chine logs are
almost trivial - saw them to something approximating the proper
angle, plane them both together so the angles match, then glue 'em.
Takes about five minutes once you get used to it. I only use 6:1 and
I've never had one break. Just keep the plane sharp and you'll have
no problem.
Scarfing plywood is a little more work - Scribe a line at the proper
distance from the end of the sheet, pland to a feather edge, then
back to the line, using the glue lines as a guide. it they're
straight and parallel, all's well. Clamping requires a bit more
ingenuity, but epoxy is pretty forgiving. Use a low-angle block
plane, and again, keep it d*mned sharp. Not hard at all.
--- Inbolger@egroups.com, Bill Wallace <wwostar@h...> wrote:
> I sam sitting in the moaning chair thinking about chine logs
and sheer
> clamps for the light schooner I am about to build, not at all happy
about
> the number of scarph joints I will have to make to get those long
sticks.
> What think you of butt blocks?
> What think you of having them not connected at all, just
butted end to end?
> What think you of having the notches in the frames very
large,
> providing limber holes, not attched to the sheet log at all?
> What think you of no chine logs at all, just a big fillet covered
with
> glass tape?
> Bill Wallace in Houston
Jim and Jamie are right, but what is even more surprising is that taped
seams become invisible too. The first time I did one, I used a disk sander
to cove the area where the two pieces of ply met, then glassed in the
depression, and filled with thickened epoxy. That was a lot of work, so
later during a quick and dirty boat building job, I just laid the tape (two
layers) on top of the ply, and was amazed I couldn't see the joint. Try it.
You'll like it.
Chuck
seams become invisible too. The first time I did one, I used a disk sander
to cove the area where the two pieces of ply met, then glassed in the
depression, and filled with thickened epoxy. That was a lot of work, so
later during a quick and dirty boat building job, I just laid the tape (two
layers) on top of the ply, and was amazed I couldn't see the joint. Try it.
You'll like it.
Chuck
> I agree with Jamie on this....my Pointy Skiff is butt blocked and the hullcurves
> are fair. I think the potential for a flat spot is greater, but I wouldbe
> more concerned about the placement of internal framing in relationship tothe
> butt blocks. The PS hull butt blocks butt up against (huh?) the forwardframe.
>
>
> >I disagree with this -- I used butt blocks on my Chebacco, and the curves
> >came out fair. I can't see any flat spot, or crookedness, nor has anyone
> >else pointed any out, despite a dark colour and high gloss paint.
> >
> >There are advantages to both methods, and either one will give you a fair
> >hull if done carefully.
> >
> >Jamie Orr
I am with Greg on this, scarphs are easy. I use a fence at an angle on a chop saw,
usually I just clamp a board on. You have to use an angle fence with the saw at its 90
degree set up or you lose depth of cut. You can get almost 6 " on a 10" chop saw, which
allows you 6/1 scarph on 1" stock. I also have a radial arm saw with a little over 13"
of cut so I can scarph 2' stock.
HJ
GHC wrote:
_ _ _ _ _
% Harrywelshman@...
usually I just clamp a board on. You have to use an angle fence with the saw at its 90
degree set up or you lose depth of cut. You can get almost 6 " on a 10" chop saw, which
allows you 6/1 scarph on 1" stock. I also have a radial arm saw with a little over 13"
of cut so I can scarph 2' stock.
HJ
GHC wrote:
> No reason to worry. Stack the 2x2's and 1x2's, mark your line, saw them--
> both with a handsaw if nothing else, flip around, nail, and glue. Scarfing
> is easy.
>
> Gregg Carlson
_ _ _ _ _
% Harrywelshman@...
Don't sweat the scarfs. I'd never done one until I had to make framing
pieces longer than 10 feet for my Chebacco. Just mark them out carefully at
12:1, use anything you like to remove the bulk of the waste, then finish
with a sharp plane, taking small shavings. Tack together and clamp to a
straight board (shielded with wax paper or plastic) and glue with epoxy.
Worked as well for a 2 x 6 (for the mast) as for 1 x 1. Scarfs are a lot
easier than they look.
Jamie Orr
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Wallace [mailto:wwostar@...]
Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2000 4:21 AM
To:bolger@egroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Light schooner
I sam sitting in the moaning chair thinking about chine logs and sheer
clamps for the light schooner I am about to build, not at all happy about
the number of scarph joints I will have to make to get those long sticks.
What think you of butt blocks?
What think you of having them not connected at all, just butted end
to end?
What think you of having the notches in the frames very large,
providing limber holes, not attched to the sheet log at all?
What think you of no chine logs at all, just a big fillet covered with
glass tape?
Bill Wallace in Houston
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
- no flogging dead horses
- add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
- stay on topic and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
pieces longer than 10 feet for my Chebacco. Just mark them out carefully at
12:1, use anything you like to remove the bulk of the waste, then finish
with a sharp plane, taking small shavings. Tack together and clamp to a
straight board (shielded with wax paper or plastic) and glue with epoxy.
Worked as well for a 2 x 6 (for the mast) as for 1 x 1. Scarfs are a lot
easier than they look.
Jamie Orr
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Wallace [mailto:wwostar@...]
Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2000 4:21 AM
To:bolger@egroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Light schooner
I sam sitting in the moaning chair thinking about chine logs and sheer
clamps for the light schooner I am about to build, not at all happy about
the number of scarph joints I will have to make to get those long sticks.
What think you of butt blocks?
What think you of having them not connected at all, just butted end
to end?
What think you of having the notches in the frames very large,
providing limber holes, not attched to the sheet log at all?
What think you of no chine logs at all, just a big fillet covered with
glass tape?
Bill Wallace in Houston
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
- no flogging dead horses
- add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
- stay on topic and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
I agree, scarfing is no big deal. I used 1 X 4 doug. fir porch flooring
to laminate the inner and outer sheer clamps on the Dakota. I ripped
off the tongues and grooves leaving about 3" of width by 3/4"
thickness. My stock was 14' long so it took three pieces for each
layer. There are 2 inner and 2 outer layers on each side of the boat.
That makes 16 scarf joints in 24 pieces. Actually, I cut the 8 to 1
angle on both ends of every board so I would have the option of
orienting them all either direction. This meant 48 angles to cut.
I scarfed the flat side so as to have more glueing surface. I cut 12
angles at a time with a router. I marked a line 6" back from
the squared end on each board and stacked them on several saw horses,
leaving each one 6" back from the end of the one below. I clamped the
stack together in three places. I clamped a straight board on each side
of the ends sloped so that the top was flush with the top of the end of
each board. I used a 1/2" straight bit in the router and make several
passes running the router base on the two guide boards and freehand
cutting between the boards. It took about 4 hours to change the set-up
4 times and make the cuts.
The advantage of scarfing beforehand is that the longer scarfed pieces
take a fair curve. It is especially helpful for the sheer. You can
probably scarf the chines as you install them (I did) because you have
the bottom to clamp or screw them to and the bend is against the width
of the bottom plywood rather than against the side panel thickness as
in the sheer.
Vince Chew
to laminate the inner and outer sheer clamps on the Dakota. I ripped
off the tongues and grooves leaving about 3" of width by 3/4"
thickness. My stock was 14' long so it took three pieces for each
layer. There are 2 inner and 2 outer layers on each side of the boat.
That makes 16 scarf joints in 24 pieces. Actually, I cut the 8 to 1
angle on both ends of every board so I would have the option of
orienting them all either direction. This meant 48 angles to cut.
I scarfed the flat side so as to have more glueing surface. I cut 12
angles at a time with a router. I marked a line 6" back from
the squared end on each board and stacked them on several saw horses,
leaving each one 6" back from the end of the one below. I clamped the
stack together in three places. I clamped a straight board on each side
of the ends sloped so that the top was flush with the top of the end of
each board. I used a 1/2" straight bit in the router and make several
passes running the router base on the two guide boards and freehand
cutting between the boards. It took about 4 hours to change the set-up
4 times and make the cuts.
The advantage of scarfing beforehand is that the longer scarfed pieces
take a fair curve. It is especially helpful for the sheer. You can
probably scarf the chines as you install them (I did) because you have
the bottom to clamp or screw them to and the bend is against the width
of the bottom plywood rather than against the side panel thickness as
in the sheer.
Vince Chew
--- Inbolger@egroups.com, GHC <ghartc@p...> wrote:
> No reason to worry. Stack the 2x2's and 1x2's, mark your line, saw them
> both with a handsaw if nothing else, flip around, nail, and glue. Scarfing
> is easy.
No reason to worry. Stack the 2x2's and 1x2's, mark your line, saw them
both with a handsaw if nothing else, flip around, nail, and glue. Scarfing
is easy.
Gregg Carlson
At 12:20 PM 11/12/2000 +0000, you wrote:
both with a handsaw if nothing else, flip around, nail, and glue. Scarfing
is easy.
Gregg Carlson
At 12:20 PM 11/12/2000 +0000, you wrote:
> I sam sitting in the moaning chair thinking about chine logs and sheer
>clamps for the light schooner I am about to build, not at all happy about
>the number of scarph joints I will have to make to get those long sticks.
> What think you of butt blocks?
> What think you of having them not connected at all, just butted end to end?
> What think you of having the notches in the frames very large,
>providing limber holes, not attched to the sheet log at all?
>What think you of no chine logs at all, just a big fillet covered with
>glass tape?
> Bill Wallace in Houston
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
>- no flogging dead horses
>- add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
>- stay on topic and punctuate
>- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
>
>
>
Bill --
This was a source of great frustration in the construction of my
scooner. I was lucky enough to come across a 28 foot 2x10 that, while
the grain was very widely spaced, was also virtually knot free. I was
able to get the chine logs, shear clamp, and a couple of spars out of
it.
Of course that does you no good, but the following might.
Reuel Parker uses laminated chine logs in his big sharpie-like hulls.
Take a look at chapter 6 of "The New Cold-Molder Boatbuilding" On a
scooner, it might be as much work, or more than all that scarfing,
but it might not be.
The other think I considered was going over-sized on the scantlings.
The chine log is only spec'd at 1 1/2 x 3/4. Hard to find a clean
piece of wood that thin and 23 feet long, but you might find the
"flaw to good wood ratio" goes up with a bigger stick.
Keep in mind that the "Pirate Racer" is the same sort of hull, nearly
as large, but with taped seems. While I'm no engineer (and I'm sure
I'll get reminded) I feel pretty confident if your log gives you
enough to fasten the bottom to the topsides, you can make up the rest
with a sturdy glass job. (Mine is 9 oz fabric on the chine.)
Don't let these things slow you down. I regret every minute I spent
worrying instead of building and sailing.
Speaking of, I think I'm going out this afternoon under foresail alone.
YIBB,
David
This was a source of great frustration in the construction of my
scooner. I was lucky enough to come across a 28 foot 2x10 that, while
the grain was very widely spaced, was also virtually knot free. I was
able to get the chine logs, shear clamp, and a couple of spars out of
it.
Of course that does you no good, but the following might.
Reuel Parker uses laminated chine logs in his big sharpie-like hulls.
Take a look at chapter 6 of "The New Cold-Molder Boatbuilding" On a
scooner, it might be as much work, or more than all that scarfing,
but it might not be.
The other think I considered was going over-sized on the scantlings.
The chine log is only spec'd at 1 1/2 x 3/4. Hard to find a clean
piece of wood that thin and 23 feet long, but you might find the
"flaw to good wood ratio" goes up with a bigger stick.
Keep in mind that the "Pirate Racer" is the same sort of hull, nearly
as large, but with taped seems. While I'm no engineer (and I'm sure
I'll get reminded) I feel pretty confident if your log gives you
enough to fasten the bottom to the topsides, you can make up the rest
with a sturdy glass job. (Mine is 9 oz fabric on the chine.)
Don't let these things slow you down. I regret every minute I spent
worrying instead of building and sailing.
Speaking of, I think I'm going out this afternoon under foresail alone.
YIBB,
David
> I sam sitting in the moaning chair thinking about chine logs and sheer
>clamps for the light schooner I am about to build, not at all happy about
>the number of scarph joints I will have to make to get those long sticks.
> What think you of butt blocks?
> What think you of having them not connected at all, just
>butted end to end?
> What think you of having the notches in the frames very large,
>providing limber holes, not attched to the sheet log at all?
>What think you of no chine logs at all, just a big fillet covered with
>glass tape?
> Bill Wallace in Houston
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
>- no flogging dead horses
>- add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
>- stay on topic and punctuate
>- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
I sam sitting in the moaning chair thinking about chine logs and sheer
clamps for the light schooner I am about to build, not at all happy about
the number of scarph joints I will have to make to get those long sticks.
What think you of butt blocks?
What think you of having them not connected at all, just butted end to end?
What think you of having the notches in the frames very large,
providing limber holes, not attched to the sheet log at all?
What think you of no chine logs at all, just a big fillet covered with
glass tape?
Bill Wallace in Houston
clamps for the light schooner I am about to build, not at all happy about
the number of scarph joints I will have to make to get those long sticks.
What think you of butt blocks?
What think you of having them not connected at all, just butted end to end?
What think you of having the notches in the frames very large,
providing limber holes, not attched to the sheet log at all?
What think you of no chine logs at all, just a big fillet covered with
glass tape?
Bill Wallace in Houston