Re: Skiffy throws a Tiffy.
The pointy skiff, even with the, um, modifications, isn't a dory at
all, it's a flatiron skiff. Consider the cross-section of the
immersed volume - when lightly loaded, it's a skinny rectangle, very
stable. Load her too deep, it approaches a square - not a stable
shape. All small squarish flat-bottomed boats get tippy, sometimes
dangerously so, when overloaded. Try two large adults in a Teal if
you want to be scared witless. I think you just have too much weight
in her. She is, after all, a very little boat.
Floatation inside, of course, does nothing until the boat is full of
water, something you probably want to avoid. I wouldn't try to put
on sponsons - I suppose it would help, but it might be better to just
live with the limitations of the design. If you want to carry more
people, I think you just need a bigger boat. BTW, I had the same
problem with the first boat I built, a Gypsy. A great boat, but it
turned out to be smaller than I had anticipated.
Not the most encouraging comments, I suppose, but new you have an
excellent excuse to build another boat ;-)
all, it's a flatiron skiff. Consider the cross-section of the
immersed volume - when lightly loaded, it's a skinny rectangle, very
stable. Load her too deep, it approaches a square - not a stable
shape. All small squarish flat-bottomed boats get tippy, sometimes
dangerously so, when overloaded. Try two large adults in a Teal if
you want to be scared witless. I think you just have too much weight
in her. She is, after all, a very little boat.
Floatation inside, of course, does nothing until the boat is full of
water, something you probably want to avoid. I wouldn't try to put
on sponsons - I suppose it would help, but it might be better to just
live with the limitations of the design. If you want to carry more
people, I think you just need a bigger boat. BTW, I had the same
problem with the first boat I built, a Gypsy. A great boat, but it
turned out to be smaller than I had anticipated.
Not the most encouraging comments, I suppose, but new you have an
excellent excuse to build another boat ;-)
--- Inbolger@egroups.com, sonicwonder@h... wrote:
> Well gang - back again (just barely) after a virgin powered
launch . . .
> the boat is VERY tippy. . . .
> 1) I thought dory/skiffs were reknowned for their seaworthiness.
My
> boat seems to be shaped very much like a dory but is awfully tippy.
> What gives?
>
> 2) Is it normal to have a boat lean so much if two men are at one
> side and another is on the bow thwart? How important is trimming
the
> boat and does a proper trim leave any room for movement on the
boat?
> If my Dad at the center thwart shifted his butt six inches in
either
> direction, I could notice skiffy leaning.
>
> 3) Here's the kicker. I am thinking of increasing the stability of
> the boat by affixing some floatation (in the form of swim buoys) to
> the gunwale at the low-shear point. Will this increase the
> stability of the boat or is it a waste of time?
>
> Sorry for the length of the post but I am bummed if I'm going to
have
> to limit the number of people in the boat to one or two ...
-I agree with Chuck.
If you want to carry that many people, go Diablo. Your 6 hp will
work, but it will not get up on plane. I can get my Diablo on plane
with a 10 hp Johnson, but not an 8 hp Honda (admittedly, this is
heavier). However, do not try to row Diablo. It has too much bottom
and transom dragging in the water to go anywhere effectively.
My Pointy Skiff rows fine with two aboard, and sometimes three with
the lightest, 100 lbs ,in the bow. However, I have run it with a 4 hp
Johnson. It becomes unstable with that kind of weight in the
bow running at that speed. I don't think I ever ran it with the
throttle wide open. We only used the motor to troll for bluefish and
stripers anyway. :-)
I guess my point is, this is why we wind up owning so many boats!
Not one boat can do it all!
happy thanksgiving
David Jost "boston"
If you want to carry that many people, go Diablo. Your 6 hp will
work, but it will not get up on plane. I can get my Diablo on plane
with a 10 hp Johnson, but not an 8 hp Honda (admittedly, this is
heavier). However, do not try to row Diablo. It has too much bottom
and transom dragging in the water to go anywhere effectively.
My Pointy Skiff rows fine with two aboard, and sometimes three with
the lightest, 100 lbs ,in the bow. However, I have run it with a 4 hp
Johnson. It becomes unstable with that kind of weight in the
bow running at that speed. I don't think I ever ran it with the
throttle wide open. We only used the motor to troll for bluefish and
stripers anyway. :-)
I guess my point is, this is why we wind up owning so many boats!
Not one boat can do it all!
happy thanksgiving
David Jost "boston"
Another facter affecting stability is fore-and-aft trim. In a boat with
lots of rocker, weight in the ends is destabilizing. Your heavy motor
on the transom and your passenger on the bow thwart were not helping to
keep the boat on her feet. A dory with a motor generally has an inboard
or an outboard in a well which keeps the weight low and out of the end.
Vince Chew
lots of rocker, weight in the ends is destabilizing. Your heavy motor
on the transom and your passenger on the bow thwart were not helping to
keep the boat on her feet. A dory with a motor generally has an inboard
or an outboard in a well which keeps the weight low and out of the end.
Vince Chew
True, dories are known for their ability to carry a load. But, remember
they were used in the fishing industry with a crew of one or two. That
heavy load of fish and gear was low in the bottom of the boat -- not up
on the thwarts.
Vince Chew
--- Inbolger@egroups.com, "Jim Chamberlin RCSIS" <jchamberlin@r...>
wrote:
they were used in the fishing industry with a crew of one or two. That
heavy load of fish and gear was low in the bottom of the boat -- not up
on the thwarts.
Vince Chew
--- Inbolger@egroups.com, "Jim Chamberlin RCSIS" <jchamberlin@r...>
wrote:
> Sonic,
>
> I agree with Rich. I had 485lbs in mine with ample freeboard, but I
> it. Just for show. It did a fine job of handling the surf and the overload.
> A true dory can handle a huge amount of weight for its size and tends to
> gain initial stability as the weight on board increases.
Sonic,
I agree with Rich. I had 485lbs in mine with ample freeboard, but I would
not go over 500#. With a boat this small, weight distribution is important,
too.
BTW, get a copy of John Gardner's "The Dory Book" if you are interested in
that design. Most dories are much larger than our Pointies and the Pointy
is a little broader in the stern than some of the shorter dory/skiffs I'm
familiar with (ex. Chamberlain dory). I've launched a 14' Chamberlain (no
relation) Dory in minimal surf and I have a picture of one with 8 adults in
it. Just for show. It did a fine job of handling the surf and the overload.
A true dory can handle a huge amount of weight for its size and tends to
gain initial stability as the weight on board increases.
Jim C.
I agree with Rich. I had 485lbs in mine with ample freeboard, but I would
not go over 500#. With a boat this small, weight distribution is important,
too.
BTW, get a copy of John Gardner's "The Dory Book" if you are interested in
that design. Most dories are much larger than our Pointies and the Pointy
is a little broader in the stern than some of the shorter dory/skiffs I'm
familiar with (ex. Chamberlain dory). I've launched a 14' Chamberlain (no
relation) Dory in minimal surf and I have a picture of one with 8 adults in
it. Just for show. It did a fine job of handling the surf and the overload.
A true dory can handle a huge amount of weight for its size and tends to
gain initial stability as the weight on board increases.
Jim C.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rich Deming [mailto:thedemings@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2000 3:52 AM
> To:bolger@egroups.com
> Subject: [bolger] Re: Skiffy throws a Tiffy.
>
>
> Seems to me that if you made the beam wider, but kept the height of
> the side panels the same, then you would end up with less rocker than
> the plans called for.
> About capacity, I built my boat from the book and I don't think it
> says anything about capacity, but being that she is a small boat and
> us using common sense, I venture to guess that a safe weight would
> only be about 450 lbs. Anymore than that and your pushing it (that is
> on my boat and it was built to spec @ 52" beam). So if I add all the
> weight you had in yours, you would be well over the 450 and that may
> lead to it being tippy.
> Anyone else have real numbers on capcity for the PS?
> Rich
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> - no flogging dead horses
> - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> - stay on topic and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
>
>
For anyone who wants to understand the increased rocker/wider beam issue,
take a shoe box, or similar, and bend the sides out a couple of inches - the
bottom will curve upward.
tippy, but develop more stability as their degree of heel is increased. A
flat bottomed boat is much more stable at first.
boat. Two adults seems like a good limit to me. In any boat that size,
trim is important, and you adjust it by moving weight around.
stability not nearly so much as the looks. Build a bigger boat. Think
about a Diablo.
myself included.
Chuck
take a shoe box, or similar, and bend the sides out a couple of inches - the
bottom will curve upward.
> 1) I thought dory/skiffs were reknowned for their seaworthiness. MySeaworthyness, yes. Initial stability, no. Dories as a rule are quite
> boat seems to be shaped very much like a dory but is awfully tippy.
> What gives?
tippy, but develop more stability as their degree of heel is increased. A
flat bottomed boat is much more stable at first.
> 2) Is it normal to have a boat lean so much if two men are at oneI agree with Rich Deming here:You are putting too many people in that little
> side and another is on the bow thwart? How important is trimming the
> boat and does a proper trim leave any room for movement on the boat?
> If my Dad at the center thwart shifted his butt six inches in either
> direction, I could notice skiffy leaning.
boat. Two adults seems like a good limit to me. In any boat that size,
trim is important, and you adjust it by moving weight around.
> 3) Here's the kicker. I am thinking of increasing the stability ofIn my opinion, if you attach sponsons to this boat, you will affect the
> the boat by affixing some floatation (in the form of swim buoys) to
> the gunwale at the low-shear point. Will this increase the
> stability of the boat or is it a waste of time?
stability not nearly so much as the looks. Build a bigger boat. Think
about a Diablo.
> Sorry for the length of the post but I am bummed if I'm going to haveLong posts are not a problem. We have a number of blow hards on this DG,
> to limit the number of people in the boat to one or two ...
myself included.
Chuck
Seems to me that if you made the beam wider, but kept the height of
the side panels the same, then you would end up with less rocker than
the plans called for.
About capacity, I built my boat from the book and I don't think it
says anything about capacity, but being that she is a small boat and
us using common sense, I venture to guess that a safe weight would
only be about 450 lbs. Anymore than that and your pushing it (that is
on my boat and it was built to spec @ 52" beam). So if I add all the
weight you had in yours, you would be well over the 450 and that may
lead to it being tippy.
Anyone else have real numbers on capcity for the PS?
Rich
the side panels the same, then you would end up with less rocker than
the plans called for.
About capacity, I built my boat from the book and I don't think it
says anything about capacity, but being that she is a small boat and
us using common sense, I venture to guess that a safe weight would
only be about 450 lbs. Anymore than that and your pushing it (that is
on my boat and it was built to spec @ 52" beam). So if I add all the
weight you had in yours, you would be well over the 450 and that may
lead to it being tippy.
Anyone else have real numbers on capcity for the PS?
Rich
Well gang - back again (just barely) after a virgin powered launch
of my modified pointy skiff, Skiffy. Since last time, I bit the
bullet and bought a 4-stroke, 6HP, long-shaft Tahatsu motor for
Skiffy. I know this motor is a little big for Skiffy but I wanted
some reserve power for my next larger project. The transom height is
16" but due to the fair amount of rocker on the boat, I opted to go
with the longer shaft so as not to have the prop bite air. Launch day
was beautiful on the Newport Back Bay - exceptionally calm, and in
the pleasant mid 70's. I just installed floatation foam under the aft
and fore seats which, according to my calculations, adds about 300lbs
of floatation to the boat. Knowing this - I got cocky and decided to
take the 56LB motor, my 190LB dad, somewhere between 100-180LB mom
(she took executive priviledge with the details), and my 175LB self
for a spin.
I now have some more performance details for the group. This boat
does not need much to propel it - I found myself afraid to push the
motor past 1/4 throttle. I learned that the hard way when I opened
her to 3/4 throttle at the dock to the accompanied screams of my
father (the one without the water phobia). I also have some design
concerns about my "modification" that I am hoping some of the more
experienced in the group can help with. Please refer to the pictures
at: www.geocities.com/sonicwonder2000/skiffy1.html while reading the
following description. The "modification" I made was the center
thwart bulkhead was oversized by 6" resulting in a bottom width as
designed, and a beam of 58". The visible effect of this mod is an
increased rocker, a noticeable flare on the mid sides, and a drop in
the mid-boat sheer line. The net result of this is that the boat is
VERY tippy. Even more worrysome is the reduced freeboard about the
center bulkhead as can be seen in the pictures. On some turns and if
my dad and I sat to one side of the boat, Skiffy would touch its
gunwale to the water at the middle of the boat. This scared the
living daylights out of me the first time it happened! I thought
water was going to rush into the boat!! Interestingly enough, it is
only the midpoint of the boat that has reduced freeboard, the back
and front have a good 4" even on turns. My dilemma is this - I would
like to be able to launch this boat of a beach (given calm seas of
course) and it seems to be too unstable to do that now. My questions
are as follows:
1) I thought dory/skiffs were reknowned for their seaworthiness. My
boat seems to be shaped very much like a dory but is awfully tippy.
What gives?
2) Is it normal to have a boat lean so much if two men are at one
side and another is on the bow thwart? How important is trimming the
boat and does a proper trim leave any room for movement on the boat?
If my Dad at the center thwart shifted his butt six inches in either
direction, I could notice skiffy leaning.
3) Here's the kicker. I am thinking of increasing the stability of
the boat by affixing some floatation (in the form of swim buoys) to
the gunwale at the low-shear point. Will this increase the
stability of the boat or is it a waste of time?
Sorry for the length of the post but I am bummed if I'm going to have
to limit the number of people in the boat to one or two ...
of my modified pointy skiff, Skiffy. Since last time, I bit the
bullet and bought a 4-stroke, 6HP, long-shaft Tahatsu motor for
Skiffy. I know this motor is a little big for Skiffy but I wanted
some reserve power for my next larger project. The transom height is
16" but due to the fair amount of rocker on the boat, I opted to go
with the longer shaft so as not to have the prop bite air. Launch day
was beautiful on the Newport Back Bay - exceptionally calm, and in
the pleasant mid 70's. I just installed floatation foam under the aft
and fore seats which, according to my calculations, adds about 300lbs
of floatation to the boat. Knowing this - I got cocky and decided to
take the 56LB motor, my 190LB dad, somewhere between 100-180LB mom
(she took executive priviledge with the details), and my 175LB self
for a spin.
I now have some more performance details for the group. This boat
does not need much to propel it - I found myself afraid to push the
motor past 1/4 throttle. I learned that the hard way when I opened
her to 3/4 throttle at the dock to the accompanied screams of my
father (the one without the water phobia). I also have some design
concerns about my "modification" that I am hoping some of the more
experienced in the group can help with. Please refer to the pictures
at: www.geocities.com/sonicwonder2000/skiffy1.html while reading the
following description. The "modification" I made was the center
thwart bulkhead was oversized by 6" resulting in a bottom width as
designed, and a beam of 58". The visible effect of this mod is an
increased rocker, a noticeable flare on the mid sides, and a drop in
the mid-boat sheer line. The net result of this is that the boat is
VERY tippy. Even more worrysome is the reduced freeboard about the
center bulkhead as can be seen in the pictures. On some turns and if
my dad and I sat to one side of the boat, Skiffy would touch its
gunwale to the water at the middle of the boat. This scared the
living daylights out of me the first time it happened! I thought
water was going to rush into the boat!! Interestingly enough, it is
only the midpoint of the boat that has reduced freeboard, the back
and front have a good 4" even on turns. My dilemma is this - I would
like to be able to launch this boat of a beach (given calm seas of
course) and it seems to be too unstable to do that now. My questions
are as follows:
1) I thought dory/skiffs were reknowned for their seaworthiness. My
boat seems to be shaped very much like a dory but is awfully tippy.
What gives?
2) Is it normal to have a boat lean so much if two men are at one
side and another is on the bow thwart? How important is trimming the
boat and does a proper trim leave any room for movement on the boat?
If my Dad at the center thwart shifted his butt six inches in either
direction, I could notice skiffy leaning.
3) Here's the kicker. I am thinking of increasing the stability of
the boat by affixing some floatation (in the form of swim buoys) to
the gunwale at the low-shear point. Will this increase the
stability of the boat or is it a waste of time?
Sorry for the length of the post but I am bummed if I'm going to have
to limit the number of people in the boat to one or two ...