Re: Starting a Micro
Roger
Micro is my first boat-building project, too. Mine is about 80%
done. Dynamite Payson says that marine ply is so close to regular AC
plywood that it is not worth the difference in price. I used 1/4"
luan for sides of the hull and 3/8" fir for decks. Bottom is 1/4"
and 3/8" ply yeilding a 5/8" bottom. I used two layers because I
started with 1/4" then changed my mind. If I were starting from
scratch again, I would probably use 3/8" for sides and decks and at
least 1/2" for bottom. Using two layers of wood on the bottom takes
a lot(read expensive) of epoxy. If you can bend 1/2" enough, use it.
I'm told that all rotary cut plywood will check. That includes
marine plywood, so it has to be glassed and epoxied on the outside.
I know a man who has a 20 year old folding schooner made with luan
and no epoxy. The wood has checked a bit, but he just repaints,
sometimes even sands before repainting, and the boat is still in good
condition.
The best advice I've had is go ahead and build your boat. If you
outlive it, build another.
Tom Etherington
Micro is my first boat-building project, too. Mine is about 80%
done. Dynamite Payson says that marine ply is so close to regular AC
plywood that it is not worth the difference in price. I used 1/4"
luan for sides of the hull and 3/8" fir for decks. Bottom is 1/4"
and 3/8" ply yeilding a 5/8" bottom. I used two layers because I
started with 1/4" then changed my mind. If I were starting from
scratch again, I would probably use 3/8" for sides and decks and at
least 1/2" for bottom. Using two layers of wood on the bottom takes
a lot(read expensive) of epoxy. If you can bend 1/2" enough, use it.
I'm told that all rotary cut plywood will check. That includes
marine plywood, so it has to be glassed and epoxied on the outside.
I know a man who has a 20 year old folding schooner made with luan
and no epoxy. The wood has checked a bit, but he just repaints,
sometimes even sands before repainting, and the boat is still in good
condition.
The best advice I've had is go ahead and build your boat. If you
outlive it, build another.
Tom Etherington
Hi John
I bought the plywood at Westwind. (They have a website, if you want to
search for it.) The epoxy is mostly Cold Cure -- Industrial Paint and
Plastics sell it, along with all the gloves, squeegees and so on (except for
tongue depressors -- I got those by the 100 at the drug store.) I tried
some other epoxies too, but came back to Cold Cure.
One word of caution -- WW changed suppliers while I was in the middle of
building and the new nominal 1/2 inch was a millimeter thinner. You may
want to buy enough for the whole hull at one time, then enough for the deck,
etc. I was lucky I didn't have to make any tricky joins of the two
thicknesses, but I had to watch out when using up the leftovers.
Jamie
-----Original Message-----
From: John Ewing [mailto:j.c.ewing@...]
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2000 11:31 PM
To:bolger@egroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Starting a Micro
Hi, Jamie. Thanks for showing your Chebacco to my wife and I today.
You do very impressive work indeed!! I didn't think to ask you the
source of your marine ply. Windsor? West Wind? And what epoxy from
where? Our mutual Home Despot isn't stocking it, apparently.
John
I bought the plywood at Westwind. (They have a website, if you want to
search for it.) The epoxy is mostly Cold Cure -- Industrial Paint and
Plastics sell it, along with all the gloves, squeegees and so on (except for
tongue depressors -- I got those by the 100 at the drug store.) I tried
some other epoxies too, but came back to Cold Cure.
One word of caution -- WW changed suppliers while I was in the middle of
building and the new nominal 1/2 inch was a millimeter thinner. You may
want to buy enough for the whole hull at one time, then enough for the deck,
etc. I was lucky I didn't have to make any tricky joins of the two
thicknesses, but I had to watch out when using up the leftovers.
Jamie
-----Original Message-----
From: John Ewing [mailto:j.c.ewing@...]
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2000 11:31 PM
To:bolger@egroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Starting a Micro
Hi, Jamie. Thanks for showing your Chebacco to my wife and I today.
You do very impressive work indeed!! I didn't think to ask you the
source of your marine ply. Windsor? West Wind? And what epoxy from
where? Our mutual Home Despot isn't stocking it, apparently.
John
--- Inbolger@egroups.com, "Orr, Jamie" <jorr@o...> wrote:
> The cost of plywood is only a small part of the total cost. By the
time
> you've spent all the time and money to finish the boat, you'll be
glad you
> bought marine ply. Besides, it saves all that trouble fighting to
get a
> good finish.
>
> I used marine fir and found it great to work with. (Couldn't
afford the
> hardwoods.) I glassed my hull so checking was a non-issue. I would
> recommend glassing too.
>
> (My two bits)
>
> Jamie Orr
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roger Peterson [mailto:GANGSTERFISH@w...]
> Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2000 5:03 PM
> To:bolger@egroups.com
> Subject: [bolger] Starting a Micro
>
>
> I am new to the group and would like to ask a few
questionsbeforestarting
> construction on my Micro. I am finding it difficult to getmarine
plywood my
> area and was considering B/C pine exterior ply.The1/4" pine at the
local
> Home Depot looks pretty good @ $10.00 asheet.A/C Fir is not to be
found but
> Luan is. Should I bite the bullet andorder the marine ply, or use
the pine?
> I would like the boat to lastseveral years. I plan to epoxy glass
the
> exterior and coat theinterior.I have read about some builders
increasing the
> bottom ply to3/8" or 1/2". Is this a good idea? I plan to sail in
local
> lakes withrocky shores and a few stumps (drought conditions for
last 2 or
> 3years).Is glassing a 1/4" bottom enough protection from
thesehazards?
> Isdoubling the bottom better than just using thicker plywood? Any
andall
> advice is welcome as this is my first boatbuilding project.Thanks in
> advance,Roger Peterson
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> - no flogging dead horses
> - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> - stay on topic and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
- no flogging dead horses
- add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
- stay on topic and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
Hi, Jamie. Thanks for showing your Chebacco to my wife and I today.
You do very impressive work indeed!! I didn't think to ask you the
source of your marine ply. Windsor? West Wind? And what epoxy from
where? Our mutual Home Despot isn't stocking it, apparently.
John
You do very impressive work indeed!! I didn't think to ask you the
source of your marine ply. Windsor? West Wind? And what epoxy from
where? Our mutual Home Despot isn't stocking it, apparently.
John
--- Inbolger@egroups.com, "Orr, Jamie" <jorr@o...> wrote:
> The cost of plywood is only a small part of the total cost. By the
time
> you've spent all the time and money to finish the boat, you'll be
glad you
> bought marine ply. Besides, it saves all that trouble fighting to
get a
> good finish.
>
> I used marine fir and found it great to work with. (Couldn't
afford the
> hardwoods.) I glassed my hull so checking was a non-issue. I would
> recommend glassing too.
>
> (My two bits)
>
> Jamie Orr
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roger Peterson [mailto:GANGSTERFISH@w...]
> Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2000 5:03 PM
> To:bolger@egroups.com
> Subject: [bolger] Starting a Micro
>
>
> I am new to the group and would like to ask a few
questionsbeforestarting
> construction on my Micro. I am finding it difficult to getmarine
plywood my
> area and was considering B/C pine exterior ply.The1/4" pine at the
local
> Home Depot looks pretty good @ $10.00 asheet.A/C Fir is not to be
found but
> Luan is. Should I bite the bullet andorder the marine ply, or use
the pine?
> I would like the boat to lastseveral years. I plan to epoxy glass
the
> exterior and coat theinterior.I have read about some builders
increasing the
> bottom ply to3/8" or 1/2". Is this a good idea? I plan to sail in
local
> lakes withrocky shores and a few stumps (drought conditions for
last 2 or
> 3years).Is glassing a 1/4" bottom enough protection from
thesehazards?
> Isdoubling the bottom better than just using thicker plywood? Any
andall
> advice is welcome as this is my first boatbuilding project.Thanks in
> advance,Roger Peterson
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> - no flogging dead horses
> - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> - stay on topic and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
The cost of plywood is only a small part of the total cost. By the time
you've spent all the time and money to finish the boat, you'll be glad you
bought marine ply. Besides, it saves all that trouble fighting to get a
good finish.
I used marine fir and found it great to work with. (Couldn't afford the
hardwoods.) I glassed my hull so checking was a non-issue. I would
recommend glassing too.
(My two bits)
Jamie Orr
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Peterson [mailto:GANGSTERFISH@...]
Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2000 5:03 PM
To:bolger@egroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Starting a Micro
I am new to the group and would like to ask a few questionsbeforestarting
construction on my Micro. I am finding it difficult to getmarine plywood my
area and was considering B/C pine exterior ply.The1/4" pine at the local
Home Depot looks pretty good @ $10.00 asheet.A/C Fir is not to be found but
Luan is. Should I bite the bullet andorder the marine ply, or use the pine?
I would like the boat to lastseveral years. I plan to epoxy glass the
exterior and coat theinterior.I have read about some builders increasing the
bottom ply to3/8" or 1/2". Is this a good idea? I plan to sail in local
lakes withrocky shores and a few stumps (drought conditions for last 2 or
3years).Is glassing a 1/4" bottom enough protection from thesehazards?
Isdoubling the bottom better than just using thicker plywood? Any andall
advice is welcome as this is my first boatbuilding project.Thanks in
advance,Roger Peterson
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
- no flogging dead horses
- add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
- stay on topic and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
you've spent all the time and money to finish the boat, you'll be glad you
bought marine ply. Besides, it saves all that trouble fighting to get a
good finish.
I used marine fir and found it great to work with. (Couldn't afford the
hardwoods.) I glassed my hull so checking was a non-issue. I would
recommend glassing too.
(My two bits)
Jamie Orr
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Peterson [mailto:GANGSTERFISH@...]
Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2000 5:03 PM
To:bolger@egroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Starting a Micro
I am new to the group and would like to ask a few questionsbeforestarting
construction on my Micro. I am finding it difficult to getmarine plywood my
area and was considering B/C pine exterior ply.The1/4" pine at the local
Home Depot looks pretty good @ $10.00 asheet.A/C Fir is not to be found but
Luan is. Should I bite the bullet andorder the marine ply, or use the pine?
I would like the boat to lastseveral years. I plan to epoxy glass the
exterior and coat theinterior.I have read about some builders increasing the
bottom ply to3/8" or 1/2". Is this a good idea? I plan to sail in local
lakes withrocky shores and a few stumps (drought conditions for last 2 or
3years).Is glassing a 1/4" bottom enough protection from thesehazards?
Isdoubling the bottom better than just using thicker plywood? Any andall
advice is welcome as this is my first boatbuilding project.Thanks in
advance,Roger Peterson
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
- no flogging dead horses
- add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
- stay on topic and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
That's the first major question, what plywood. The answer to that
will cascade through rest of the project.
My 2 cents: it depends on what you want for a finished product.
If you want it to last, and to look good while it lasts, go for
marine. As a percentage of all the money you're going to put into it
anyway (keeping in mind that the hull alone is far from being the
whole boat), the seemingly huge extra cost for marine ply will
come out to surprisingly little of your total investment. If money
(lack of money) is a real issue, consider that Bolger is a believer
in wringing all the money out of the interior, rig, and extras first,
before skimping on the hull. Most everything else can be upgraded,
but not the hull. And if you want to sell the boat eventually, all
else being equal a marine ply hull will probably pay for itself in
the end. It might even pay for itself in terms of easier upkeep over
the years if you're finicky about the finish. Stitch and glue guru
Sam Devlin is a huge believer in quality marine ply, and thinks it's
actually considerably *more* expensive to go cheap on the hull if you
want the boat to last and look good.
If you're looking at the boat as a quick and dirty, fun project where
looks are secondary, and/or you're not sure that your handiwork as a
first time builder is going to yeild a quality product no matter what
you build it of, go for the home store stuff. With due care you'll
end up with a perfectly sound boat that may just need some more
attention over the years to keep it looking good, but only if you
*want* to keep it looking good
My experience is to steer clear of Fir marine ply. It's expensive
and it'll still check. If you do want marine, spend the money on the
exotics.
As for the bottom thickness, I'm not a Micro expert. But I think it
would be much better, but obviously more work, to double the bottom
if you're going that route. You get more, thinner plies, and you
know that atleast in the middle two plies, there are no voids!
Have fun! (You will!) John
will cascade through rest of the project.
My 2 cents: it depends on what you want for a finished product.
If you want it to last, and to look good while it lasts, go for
marine. As a percentage of all the money you're going to put into it
anyway (keeping in mind that the hull alone is far from being the
whole boat), the seemingly huge extra cost for marine ply will
come out to surprisingly little of your total investment. If money
(lack of money) is a real issue, consider that Bolger is a believer
in wringing all the money out of the interior, rig, and extras first,
before skimping on the hull. Most everything else can be upgraded,
but not the hull. And if you want to sell the boat eventually, all
else being equal a marine ply hull will probably pay for itself in
the end. It might even pay for itself in terms of easier upkeep over
the years if you're finicky about the finish. Stitch and glue guru
Sam Devlin is a huge believer in quality marine ply, and thinks it's
actually considerably *more* expensive to go cheap on the hull if you
want the boat to last and look good.
If you're looking at the boat as a quick and dirty, fun project where
looks are secondary, and/or you're not sure that your handiwork as a
first time builder is going to yeild a quality product no matter what
you build it of, go for the home store stuff. With due care you'll
end up with a perfectly sound boat that may just need some more
attention over the years to keep it looking good, but only if you
*want* to keep it looking good
My experience is to steer clear of Fir marine ply. It's expensive
and it'll still check. If you do want marine, spend the money on the
exotics.
As for the bottom thickness, I'm not a Micro expert. But I think it
would be much better, but obviously more work, to double the bottom
if you're going that route. You get more, thinner plies, and you
know that atleast in the middle two plies, there are no voids!
Have fun! (You will!) John
--- Inbolger@egroups.com, "Roger Peterson" <GANGSTERFISH@w...> wrote:
> I am new to the group and would like to ask a few
questionsbeforestarting construction on my Micro. I am finding it
difficult to getmarine plywood my area and was considering B/C pine
exterior ply.The1/4" pine at the local Home Depot looks pretty good @
$10.00 asheet.A/C Fir is not to be found but Luan is. Should I bite
the bullet andorder the marine ply, or use the pine? I would like the
boat to lastseveral years. I plan to epoxy glass the exterior and
coat theinterior.I have read about some builders increasing the
bottom ply to3/8" or 1/2". Is this a good idea? I plan to sail in
local lakes withrocky shores and a few stumps (drought conditions for
last 2 or 3years).Is glassing a 1/4" bottom enough protection from
thesehazards? Isdoubling the bottom better than just using thicker
plywood? Any andall advice is welcome as this is my first
boatbuilding project.Thanks in advance,Roger Peterson
Roger:
You will no doubt get a number of points of view. Here is mine:
1) Don't waste your money on marine ply. Either of the alternatives you
mention would work fine. The pine will need glass on exterior surfaces to
prevent checking. My understanding is that Luan will not check if it has a
coating of epoxy. (Of course, all epoxy must be coated with paint or
varnish to prevent UV degradation).
2) Increase the bottom to 1/2". A quarter is not enough. You need both the
stiffness and the strength. I am not sure that doubling is worth the extra
effort. I would use a single layer of half inch ply with glass or other
fabric for abrasion resistance.
Chuck
area and was considering B/C pine exterior ply.The1/4" pine at the local
Home Depot looks pretty good @ $10.00 asheet.A/C Fir is not to be found but
Luan is. Should I bite the bullet andorder the marine ply, or use the pine?
I would like the boat to lastseveral years. I plan to epoxy glass the
exterior and coat theinterior.I have read about some builders increasing the
bottom ply to3/8" or 1/2". Is this a good idea? I plan to sail in local
lakes withrocky shores and a few stumps (drought conditions for last 2 or
3years).Is glassing a 1/4" bottom enough protection from thesehazards?
Isdoubling the bottom better than just using thicker plywood? Any andall
advice is welcome as this is my first boatbuilding project.Thanks in
advance,Roger Peterson
You will no doubt get a number of points of view. Here is mine:
1) Don't waste your money on marine ply. Either of the alternatives you
mention would work fine. The pine will need glass on exterior surfaces to
prevent checking. My understanding is that Luan will not check if it has a
coating of epoxy. (Of course, all epoxy must be coated with paint or
varnish to prevent UV degradation).
2) Increase the bottom to 1/2". A quarter is not enough. You need both the
stiffness and the strength. I am not sure that doubling is worth the extra
effort. I would use a single layer of half inch ply with glass or other
fabric for abrasion resistance.
Chuck
> I am new to the group and would like to ask a few questionsbeforestartingconstruction on my Micro. I am finding it difficult to getmarine plywood my
area and was considering B/C pine exterior ply.The1/4" pine at the local
Home Depot looks pretty good @ $10.00 asheet.A/C Fir is not to be found but
Luan is. Should I bite the bullet andorder the marine ply, or use the pine?
I would like the boat to lastseveral years. I plan to epoxy glass the
exterior and coat theinterior.I have read about some builders increasing the
bottom ply to3/8" or 1/2". Is this a good idea? I plan to sail in local
lakes withrocky shores and a few stumps (drought conditions for last 2 or
3years).Is glassing a 1/4" bottom enough protection from thesehazards?
Isdoubling the bottom better than just using thicker plywood? Any andall
advice is welcome as this is my first boatbuilding project.Thanks in
advance,Roger Peterson
I am new to the group and would like to ask a few questionsbeforestarting construction on my Micro. I am finding it difficult to getmarine plywood my area and was considering B/C pine exterior ply.The1/4" pine at the local Home Depot looks pretty good @ $10.00 asheet.A/C Fir is not to be found but Luan is. Should I bite the bullet andorder the marine ply, or use the pine? I would like the boat to lastseveral years. I plan to epoxy glass the exterior and coat theinterior.I have read about some builders increasing the bottom ply to3/8" or 1/2". Is this a good idea? I plan to sail in local lakes withrocky shores and a few stumps (drought conditions for last 2 or 3years).Is glassing a 1/4" bottom enough protection from thesehazards? Isdoubling the bottom better than just using thicker plywood? Any andall advice is welcome as this is my first boatbuilding project.Thanks in advance,Roger Peterson