Re: [bolger] Re: V21 Remove Spreaders?
David,
Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts. I am in agreement that it
is critical that the stresses be applied in the right planes and places. I
think that even if I don't move them I will redo the setup so that the pull is
down on the hull where it belongs.
Jim
David Jost wrote:
Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts. I am in agreement that it
is critical that the stresses be applied in the right planes and places. I
think that even if I don't move them I will redo the setup so that the pull is
down on the hull where it belongs.
Jim
David Jost wrote:
> Jim,
> Here are some thoughts about this. When reading them, be mindful
> that this is a saxophone player talking about things he has not
> business being in.
> The advantage of moving the stays inboard is to get a better
> trimming angle on the jib and genoa. The J24 is set up this way but,
> the stays are attached to the main bulkhead that spreads the stress top
> to bottom across a large area. it is interesting to note that on the
> older hulls, this bulkead is subject to delamination!
> Your hull is not set up to spread this stress across a larger
> area, the 2X6's are still putting the stress on the cabin roof unless
> they are attached to the sides and cabin sole as well, you have
> localized your stress.
> I would move the stays back to the outer edge and remove the
> spreaders. Since it appears that the boat did not point well with the
> modification, it should be no worse and make your life a lot easier.
> You did not mention if the boat was a fractional rig or not, If
> it is, then the spreaders would help to set up some pre-bend which
> should help to flatten the main, tension the forestay and help pointing
> in breezier conditions.
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> - no flogging dead horses
> - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> - stay on topic and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
Jim,
Here are some thoughts about this. When reading them, be mindful
that this is a saxophone player talking about things he has not
business being in.
The advantage of moving the stays inboard is to get a better
trimming angle on the jib and genoa. The J24 is set up this way but,
the stays are attached to the main bulkhead that spreads the stress top
to bottom across a large area. it is interesting to note that on the
older hulls, this bulkead is subject to delamination!
Your hull is not set up to spread this stress across a larger
area, the 2X6's are still putting the stress on the cabin roof unless
they are attached to the sides and cabin sole as well, you have
localized your stress.
I would move the stays back to the outer edge and remove the
spreaders. Since it appears that the boat did not point well with the
modification, it should be no worse and make your life a lot easier.
You did not mention if the boat was a fractional rig or not, If
it is, then the spreaders would help to set up some pre-bend which
should help to flatten the main, tension the forestay and help pointing
in breezier conditions.
Here are some thoughts about this. When reading them, be mindful
that this is a saxophone player talking about things he has not
business being in.
The advantage of moving the stays inboard is to get a better
trimming angle on the jib and genoa. The J24 is set up this way but,
the stays are attached to the main bulkhead that spreads the stress top
to bottom across a large area. it is interesting to note that on the
older hulls, this bulkead is subject to delamination!
Your hull is not set up to spread this stress across a larger
area, the 2X6's are still putting the stress on the cabin roof unless
they are attached to the sides and cabin sole as well, you have
localized your stress.
I would move the stays back to the outer edge and remove the
spreaders. Since it appears that the boat did not point well with the
modification, it should be no worse and make your life a lot easier.
You did not mention if the boat was a fractional rig or not, If
it is, then the spreaders would help to set up some pre-bend which
should help to flatten the main, tension the forestay and help pointing
in breezier conditions.
The angle between the mast and your shrouds needs to be at least 10 degrees.
The spreaders provide this with the narrower base. When you move the
shrouds out to the original position, that will probably open up the angle
so that the spreaders are unnecessary. Try drawing it to scale, then check
the angle, or use your trigonometry (which I forgot for the second time as
soon as my daughter finished that part of her math course!) Excellent
reference is the Rigger's Apprentice by Brion Toss.
Jamie Orr
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Goeckermann [mailto:jim@...]
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2000 5:19 PM
To:bolger@egroups.com
Subject: [bolger] V21 Remove Spreaders?
Greetings,
I need some advice from you more experienced sailors, please.
I have a new-to-me V21 that had some mods done by a previous owner. The
chainplate (right term?) and stays were moved in closer to the cabin roof
and
mast spreaders were added. I would proceed on the "if 'taint busted...."
course, but in anchoring the chain plates he added some stress to the hull
with the 2X6's that he bolted the chainplate to. This dimples the hull so
that it is easy to see about 1/2" of concave bow.
My scanning of the V17/V21 manual indicates that there were no spreader bars
originally, and I am considering moving the chain plates back to the
original
position and removing the spreaders.
This would make it easier to tow without the mast turning to scratch the
roof, and it would be easier to use the mast in its cradle to hold a tarp in
the winter. BUT if the spreaders help in some way (along with relocated
stays), I could leave well enough alone/ The previous owner (after the
Modifying P.O.) said he didn't feel that the boat pointed any higher than an
unmodified boat, but had no direct comparison. I am not interested in class
rules or racing.
Opinions, please.
Thanks in advance!
Jim
V21 Blackjack (don't know about that name, but the graphics are nice...)
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
- no flogging dead horses
- add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
- stay on topic and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
The spreaders provide this with the narrower base. When you move the
shrouds out to the original position, that will probably open up the angle
so that the spreaders are unnecessary. Try drawing it to scale, then check
the angle, or use your trigonometry (which I forgot for the second time as
soon as my daughter finished that part of her math course!) Excellent
reference is the Rigger's Apprentice by Brion Toss.
Jamie Orr
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Goeckermann [mailto:jim@...]
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2000 5:19 PM
To:bolger@egroups.com
Subject: [bolger] V21 Remove Spreaders?
Greetings,
I need some advice from you more experienced sailors, please.
I have a new-to-me V21 that had some mods done by a previous owner. The
chainplate (right term?) and stays were moved in closer to the cabin roof
and
mast spreaders were added. I would proceed on the "if 'taint busted...."
course, but in anchoring the chain plates he added some stress to the hull
with the 2X6's that he bolted the chainplate to. This dimples the hull so
that it is easy to see about 1/2" of concave bow.
My scanning of the V17/V21 manual indicates that there were no spreader bars
originally, and I am considering moving the chain plates back to the
original
position and removing the spreaders.
This would make it easier to tow without the mast turning to scratch the
roof, and it would be easier to use the mast in its cradle to hold a tarp in
the winter. BUT if the spreaders help in some way (along with relocated
stays), I could leave well enough alone/ The previous owner (after the
Modifying P.O.) said he didn't feel that the boat pointed any higher than an
unmodified boat, but had no direct comparison. I am not interested in class
rules or racing.
Opinions, please.
Thanks in advance!
Jim
V21 Blackjack (don't know about that name, but the graphics are nice...)
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
- no flogging dead horses
- add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
- stay on topic and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
Greetings,
I need some advice from you more experienced sailors, please.
I have a new-to-me V21 that had some mods done by a previous owner. The
chainplate (right term?) and stays were moved in closer to the cabin roof and
mast spreaders were added. I would proceed on the "if 'taint busted...."
course, but in anchoring the chain plates he added some stress to the hull
with the 2X6's that he bolted the chainplate to. This dimples the hull so
that it is easy to see about 1/2" of concave bow.
My scanning of the V17/V21 manual indicates that there were no spreader bars
originally, and I am considering moving the chain plates back to the original
position and removing the spreaders.
This would make it easier to tow without the mast turning to scratch the
roof, and it would be easier to use the mast in its cradle to hold a tarp in
the winter. BUT if the spreaders help in some way (along with relocated
stays), I could leave well enough alone/ The previous owner (after the
Modifying P.O.) said he didn't feel that the boat pointed any higher than an
unmodified boat, but had no direct comparison. I am not interested in class
rules or racing.
Opinions, please.
Thanks in advance!
Jim
V21 Blackjack (don't know about that name, but the graphics are nice...)
I need some advice from you more experienced sailors, please.
I have a new-to-me V21 that had some mods done by a previous owner. The
chainplate (right term?) and stays were moved in closer to the cabin roof and
mast spreaders were added. I would proceed on the "if 'taint busted...."
course, but in anchoring the chain plates he added some stress to the hull
with the 2X6's that he bolted the chainplate to. This dimples the hull so
that it is easy to see about 1/2" of concave bow.
My scanning of the V17/V21 manual indicates that there were no spreader bars
originally, and I am considering moving the chain plates back to the original
position and removing the spreaders.
This would make it easier to tow without the mast turning to scratch the
roof, and it would be easier to use the mast in its cradle to hold a tarp in
the winter. BUT if the spreaders help in some way (along with relocated
stays), I could leave well enough alone/ The previous owner (after the
Modifying P.O.) said he didn't feel that the boat pointed any higher than an
unmodified boat, but had no direct comparison. I am not interested in class
rules or racing.
Opinions, please.
Thanks in advance!
Jim
V21 Blackjack (don't know about that name, but the graphics are nice...)