Re: Diablo help
Ed,
I saw the article, and yes I'll watch out for that line. Even after
reading your story, it still took me several tries (on posterboard)
to draw it out correctly when making my model.
The photos of your boat are part of the inspiration for this build.
Thanks, Rick
I saw the article, and yes I'll watch out for that line. Even after
reading your story, it still took me several tries (on posterboard)
to draw it out correctly when making my model.
The photos of your boat are part of the inspiration for this build.
Thanks, Rick
> Don't make the cut I made (Boatbuilder Magazine Nov/Dev 2000).
> Ed Sasser
Don't make the cut I made (Boatbuilder Magazine Nov/Dev 2000). After making that bend with the side panels, I'm inclined to think you should wait for 1/4 stock. The bend should be possible but much more work with wire, holes and filler.
Ed Sasser
Juneau Alaska
see www.duckworksmagazine.com for pix of my Diablo.
--- "Rick " <sctree@...>
the BoatBuilding.Communityhttp://boatbuilding.com/
the Internet boatbuilding, design and repair resource
Ed Sasser
Juneau Alaska
see www.duckworksmagazine.com for pix of my Diablo.
--- "Rick " <sctree@...>
> wrote:_____________________________________________________________
>Thanks for all the thoughts, lots of good input.
>
>Construction starts tomorrow. Using 6566 red meranti 1/2" 7-ply, for
>bottom, transom and frames, but they had no 1/4" for the topsides,
>in stock, until next week. So, we took some 3/8" 5-ply and we're gonna
>try and make it bend. If successful the boat will weigh a bit more
>than designed, but if we can't convince the 3/8" to make that curve
>then it's back to the lumber dealer next week.
>
>So anyone wanna set the odds on the 3/8" working??
>
>Rick
>
>
>- Inbolger@egroups.com, "Rick " <sctree@d...> wrote:
>> Tomorrow I am picking up the materials to build a DIABLO.
>> Construction starts Saturday.
>> Any tips from you Diablo builders out there.
>>
>> Rick
>
>
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Thanks for all the thoughts, lots of good input.
Construction starts tomorrow. Using 6566 red meranti 1/2" 7-ply, for
bottom, transom and frames, but they had no 1/4" for the topsides,
in stock, until next week. So, we took some 3/8" 5-ply and we're gonna
try and make it bend. If successful the boat will weigh a bit more
than designed, but if we can't convince the 3/8" to make that curve
then it's back to the lumber dealer next week.
So anyone wanna set the odds on the 3/8" working??
Rick
- Inbolger@egroups.com, "Rick " <sctree@d...> wrote:
Construction starts tomorrow. Using 6566 red meranti 1/2" 7-ply, for
bottom, transom and frames, but they had no 1/4" for the topsides,
in stock, until next week. So, we took some 3/8" 5-ply and we're gonna
try and make it bend. If successful the boat will weigh a bit more
than designed, but if we can't convince the 3/8" to make that curve
then it's back to the lumber dealer next week.
So anyone wanna set the odds on the 3/8" working??
Rick
- Inbolger@egroups.com, "Rick " <sctree@d...> wrote:
> Tomorrow I am picking up the materials to build a DIABLO.
> Construction starts Saturday.
> Any tips from you Diablo builders out there.
>
> Rick
If you are using mat, epoxy probably won't make it stick better. It is
my understanding that almost all mat is meant for polyester and won't
work properly with epoxy. It's supposed to have some styrene or
something in it to hold it together which dissolves in the polyester.
I am one of those people troubled by peel off polyester. Haven't had
the problem with epoxy just yet, but I haven't had the same exposure
yet either.
When polyester and mat is used to fix hole in floor of car, then run
thru puddle a couple of years later, resulting geyser can be very
amusing. Could use to ferry large amounts of water fast, just like one
of those airplane water bombers.
my understanding that almost all mat is meant for polyester and won't
work properly with epoxy. It's supposed to have some styrene or
something in it to hold it together which dissolves in the polyester.
I am one of those people troubled by peel off polyester. Haven't had
the problem with epoxy just yet, but I haven't had the same exposure
yet either.
When polyester and mat is used to fix hole in floor of car, then run
thru puddle a couple of years later, resulting geyser can be very
amusing. Could use to ferry large amounts of water fast, just like one
of those airplane water bombers.
--- Inbolger@egroups.com, StepHydro@a... wrote:
> Re the comments about delamination of the covering and polyester. I
am
> cersnip
> However, these are not entirely related. How many out there have
laminated
> glass cloth to plywood using epoxy resin and had it delaminate???
Yeay, a
> bunch. The delamination isn't caused by the use of polyester resin,
it is
> caused bdcause glass cloth doesn't stick to plywood for zip. snip
>
> Use a layer of the thinnest glass mat right next to the wood. snip
-all good points. . .
I would also add a slop well to catch a wave that might inadvertently
try to climb in over the transom while backing down. that might also
take the place of the stern knee. It is subject to delamination. My
bow compartment is completely sealed with epoxy and pour in place
polyester foam.
David Jost
"biding my time til the bell rings"
I would also add a slop well to catch a wave that might inadvertently
try to climb in over the transom while backing down. that might also
take the place of the stern knee. It is subject to delamination. My
bow compartment is completely sealed with epoxy and pour in place
polyester foam.
David Jost
"biding my time til the bell rings"
> Problems:
> - Polyester glass sheathed exterior isn't ideal, delaminates easily,
> particularly in wear areas.
> - Knees (stem & transom) are delaminating and rotting, the fact that
> they get stepped on all the time doesn't help.
> - Bow flotation compartment rotting.
> - Gunwales pulling apart
> - Transom is pulling apart (previous owner & I used old 15hp);
> structure of transom could use seats as integral structural
> component. I carry crew & cargo, wouldn't use less than 15 hp...
> - Rainwater all drains inboard, and it holds a lot.
> - 20" transom is just a hair tall for my short shaft.
>
> To address many of my concerns:
> - Epoxy and light glass, inside & out, including insides of
> floatation compartments. Much better than polyester.
> - Continuous seats/floatation chambers along each side, approx 16"
> wide, draining outboard. These chambers would also serve as taped-
> and-glued reinforcing for the transom, and perhaps reduce the need
> for transom knee. If big enough, with big scuppers, you could run
> the boat completely swamped.
> - Stem: don't extend to bottom of boat (not sure if that was in
> design, or a builder modification)
> - Make it easy to cut down the 20" transom to fit a short shaft;
> maybe use a 2x8 at motor mount.
> - Radius outside of rub rails; tend to catch on docks & other boats.
>
>
> Also, heard of stretched versions; I'd try it.
>
> Enjoy, it's a great boat.
>
> Curtis Betts
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- Inbolger@egroups.com, "Rick " <sctree@d...> wrote:
> > Tomorrow I am picking up the materials to build a DIABLO.
> > Construction starts Saturday.
> > Any tips from you Diablo builders out there.
> >
> > Rick
On Thu, 21 Dec 2000StepHydro@...wrote:
price of a sheet of good plywood. For example, the Raka website lists it
at $110 for a 3-gallon kit.
Polyester is fairly cheap, it's true, but it ends up being about 1/3 the
price of epoxy (and the cost in brain cells is not factored in).
Sure, it will cost more, but it's so much more friendly, it's
substantially more tenacious, it's more water resistant, it's a far better
glue, it has many uses beyond sheathing, and it's far more forgiving of
minor errors in application or joinery.
Of course, one doesn't need to use it. But it usually helps, and at a
reasonable price.
> Epoxy will nearly double the materials cost for such a boat, as andI just don't think so. Epoxy can be had for about $35 gallon, or the
> inside-and-out glassed boat takes a lot of resin.
price of a sheet of good plywood. For example, the Raka website lists it
at $110 for a 3-gallon kit.
Polyester is fairly cheap, it's true, but it ends up being about 1/3 the
price of epoxy (and the cost in brain cells is not factored in).
Sure, it will cost more, but it's so much more friendly, it's
substantially more tenacious, it's more water resistant, it's a far better
glue, it has many uses beyond sheathing, and it's far more forgiving of
minor errors in application or joinery.
Of course, one doesn't need to use it. But it usually helps, and at a
reasonable price.
Re the comments about delamination of the covering and polyester. I am
certain that the two facts are correct. The boat was built with polyester
resin; the glass has delaminated from the wood.
However, these are not entirely related. How many out there have laminated
glass cloth to plywood using epoxy resin and had it delaminate??? Yeay, a
bunch. The delamination isn't caused by the use of polyester resin, it is
caused bdcause glass cloth doesn't stick to plywood for zip. I build a
rowboat using BC pine and polyester exclusively. I gave it away (still good)
after 10 years outdoors and there was NO delamination, no failed joints, no
flaws having to do with polyester.
Use a layer of the thinnest glass mat right next to the wood. Be sure to use
a laminating resin, poly or epoxy, as you please. Put your cloth over that.
It will stay together until it is burned for scrap in some future day.
So many failures are blamed on polyester that are failures of technique
rather than of materials. If I were building a Diablo, and I have considered
it, I would use polyester and good building practices. Epoxy will nearly
double the materials cost for such a boat, as and inside-and-out glassed boat
takes a lot of resin. I'd guess that the epoxy boat would last 30 years
rather than 25 :-)
Resinly yours/Carron
In a message dated 12/21/2000 7:<BR39:<BR13 AM
Eastern Standard ,curtisbetts@...replies to a post with:
certain that the two facts are correct. The boat was built with polyester
resin; the glass has delaminated from the wood.
However, these are not entirely related. How many out there have laminated
glass cloth to plywood using epoxy resin and had it delaminate??? Yeay, a
bunch. The delamination isn't caused by the use of polyester resin, it is
caused bdcause glass cloth doesn't stick to plywood for zip. I build a
rowboat using BC pine and polyester exclusively. I gave it away (still good)
after 10 years outdoors and there was NO delamination, no failed joints, no
flaws having to do with polyester.
Use a layer of the thinnest glass mat right next to the wood. Be sure to use
a laminating resin, poly or epoxy, as you please. Put your cloth over that.
It will stay together until it is burned for scrap in some future day.
So many failures are blamed on polyester that are failures of technique
rather than of materials. If I were building a Diablo, and I have considered
it, I would use polyester and good building practices. Epoxy will nearly
double the materials cost for such a boat, as and inside-and-out glassed boat
takes a lot of resin. I'd guess that the epoxy boat would last 30 years
rather than 25 :-)
Resinly yours/Carron
In a message dated 12/21/2000 7:<BR39:<BR13 AM
Eastern Standard ,curtisbetts@...replies to a post with:
> I have a Diablo, bought "used", and would build it very differently.
>
> Problems:
> - Polyester glass sheathed exterior isn't ideal, delaminates easily,
> particularly in wear areas.
> Then the reply:
>> To address many of my concerns:
> > - Epoxy and light glass, inside & out, including insides of
> > floatation compartments. Much better than polyester.
I have a Diablo, bought "used", and would build it very differently.
Problems:
- Polyester glass sheathed exterior isn't ideal, delaminates easily,
particularly in wear areas.
- Knees (stem & transom) are delaminating and rotting, the fact that
they get stepped on all the time doesn't help.
- Bow flotation compartment rotting.
- Gunwales pulling apart
- Transom is pulling apart (previous owner & I used old 15hp);
structure of transom could use seats as integral structural
component. I carry crew & cargo, wouldn't use less than 15 hp...
- Rainwater all drains inboard, and it holds a lot.
- 20" transom is just a hair tall for my short shaft.
To address many of my concerns:
- Epoxy and light glass, inside & out, including insides of
floatation compartments. Much better than polyester.
- Continuous seats/floatation chambers along each side, approx 16"
wide, draining outboard. These chambers would also serve as taped-
and-glued reinforcing for the transom, and perhaps reduce the need
for transom knee. If big enough, with big scuppers, you could run
the boat completely swamped.
- Stem: don't extend to bottom of boat (not sure if that was in
design, or a builder modification)
- Make it easy to cut down the 20" transom to fit a short shaft;
maybe use a 2x8 at motor mount.
- Radius outside of rub rails; tend to catch on docks & other boats.
Also, heard of stretched versions; I'd try it.
Enjoy, it's a great boat.
Curtis Betts
Problems:
- Polyester glass sheathed exterior isn't ideal, delaminates easily,
particularly in wear areas.
- Knees (stem & transom) are delaminating and rotting, the fact that
they get stepped on all the time doesn't help.
- Bow flotation compartment rotting.
- Gunwales pulling apart
- Transom is pulling apart (previous owner & I used old 15hp);
structure of transom could use seats as integral structural
component. I carry crew & cargo, wouldn't use less than 15 hp...
- Rainwater all drains inboard, and it holds a lot.
- 20" transom is just a hair tall for my short shaft.
To address many of my concerns:
- Epoxy and light glass, inside & out, including insides of
floatation compartments. Much better than polyester.
- Continuous seats/floatation chambers along each side, approx 16"
wide, draining outboard. These chambers would also serve as taped-
and-glued reinforcing for the transom, and perhaps reduce the need
for transom knee. If big enough, with big scuppers, you could run
the boat completely swamped.
- Stem: don't extend to bottom of boat (not sure if that was in
design, or a builder modification)
- Make it easy to cut down the 20" transom to fit a short shaft;
maybe use a 2x8 at motor mount.
- Radius outside of rub rails; tend to catch on docks & other boats.
Also, heard of stretched versions; I'd try it.
Enjoy, it's a great boat.
Curtis Betts
--- Inbolger@egroups.com, "Rick " <sctree@d...> wrote:
> Tomorrow I am picking up the materials to build a DIABLO.
> Construction starts Saturday.
> Any tips from you Diablo builders out there.
>
> Rick
I have built two diablo's. Here is what I learned:
1. do not use luan plywood unless you like to swim. moral learned
from Diablo #1, the 1/4 " is ok, but the 1/2" is garbage.
2. check to see that the hull is aligned by using a line from stem to
each stern corner.
3. It is worth the time to put 2 oz cloth over the frames and inside
of the boat to keep it clean and prevent delamination. epoxy or
polyester is your choice.
4. Diablo planes with a 10hp 2 cycle motor, it does not with an 8 hp
4 stroke.
5. Diablo holds 2 parents/ 2 children and a labrador retriever.
6. Diablo is the best boat I own right now.
7. a natural drift with a crank bait will yield a lot of bluefish and
stripers.
8. the bow platform is great for casting flys.
9. add a cleat p/s on the stern and at least one on the bow.
1. do not use luan plywood unless you like to swim. moral learned
from Diablo #1, the 1/4 " is ok, but the 1/2" is garbage.
2. check to see that the hull is aligned by using a line from stem to
each stern corner.
3. It is worth the time to put 2 oz cloth over the frames and inside
of the boat to keep it clean and prevent delamination. epoxy or
polyester is your choice.
4. Diablo planes with a 10hp 2 cycle motor, it does not with an 8 hp
4 stroke.
5. Diablo holds 2 parents/ 2 children and a labrador retriever.
6. Diablo is the best boat I own right now.
7. a natural drift with a crank bait will yield a lot of bluefish and
stripers.
8. the bow platform is great for casting flys.
9. add a cleat p/s on the stern and at least one on the bow.
Tomorrow I am picking up the materials to build a DIABLO.
Construction starts Saturday.
Any tips from you Diablo builders out there.
Rick
Construction starts Saturday.
Any tips from you Diablo builders out there.
Rick