RE: [bolger] Re: Heating so Epoxy Cures
Just finished re-reading the System Three booklet. They offer a hardner
that cures down to 35 degrees F. I've not used it yet, but curing under 55
degrees is a challenge with their #2 Hardner.
Jim
that cures down to 35 degrees F. I've not used it yet, but curing under 55
degrees is a challenge with their #2 Hardner.
Jim
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Clyde S. Wisner [mailto:clydewis@...]
> Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2000 6:24 AM
> To:bolger@egroups.com
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Heating so Epoxy Cures
>
>
> I have found that it provides plenty of time for it to run and
> puddle before
> it kicks off. So you may want to look at the level and position
> of the work
> as I can attest to the problem when it inadvertently runs into
> your trailer
> hitch. Clyde
>
> Tom Etherington wrote:
>
> > While epoxy won't cure below a certain temperature, getting below
> > that temperature doesn't mean it will never cure. As soon as the
> > temperature goes up, it will resume it's cure. In fact, "set up"
> > epoxy continues to cure for maybe months after we consider it cured.
> > A really hot day may even enhance it's cure a little even after it
> > has been "cured" for months. Get a copy of the System Three Epoxy
> > manual where there is a good discussion of this.
> >
> > I worked on my Micro outside last winter in New Jersey. In cold
> > weather the nighttime temperatures were below freezing, but the
> > daytime temperatures were in the 40's Fahrenheit. It took a week for
> > some of the stuff to cure, but the cold only slowed it up, it didn't
> > stop it from ever curing. (Cold weather does mean you have a very
> > long time to work with the stuff before it kicks off.)
> >
> > Tom Etherington
> >
> > --- Inbolger@egroups.com, "randall robar" <rrobar@s...> wrote:
> > > Hi Gang,
> > >
> > > Just as I'm ready to go 3D with Micro winter has arrived and the
> > > temperature has dropped. Epoxy, of course, needs 40+ degress F.
> > for
> > > several hours to cure. So the questions are:
> > >
> > > (1) Is a small electric heater with a tarp over the boat SAFE?
> > >
> > > (2) Has anyone done #1 or did you just put everything on hold
> > (gasp!)
> > > until spring?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > randy
> > > grounded and cold in boston
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> > - no flogging dead horses
> > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> > - stay on topic and punctuate
> > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> - no flogging dead horses
> - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> - stay on topic and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
>
>
I have found that it provides plenty of time for it to run and puddle before
it kicks off. So you may want to look at the level and position of the work
as I can attest to the problem when it inadvertently runs into your trailer
hitch. Clyde
Tom Etherington wrote:
it kicks off. So you may want to look at the level and position of the work
as I can attest to the problem when it inadvertently runs into your trailer
hitch. Clyde
Tom Etherington wrote:
> While epoxy won't cure below a certain temperature, getting below
> that temperature doesn't mean it will never cure. As soon as the
> temperature goes up, it will resume it's cure. In fact, "set up"
> epoxy continues to cure for maybe months after we consider it cured.
> A really hot day may even enhance it's cure a little even after it
> has been "cured" for months. Get a copy of the System Three Epoxy
> manual where there is a good discussion of this.
>
> I worked on my Micro outside last winter in New Jersey. In cold
> weather the nighttime temperatures were below freezing, but the
> daytime temperatures were in the 40's Fahrenheit. It took a week for
> some of the stuff to cure, but the cold only slowed it up, it didn't
> stop it from ever curing. (Cold weather does mean you have a very
> long time to work with the stuff before it kicks off.)
>
> Tom Etherington
>
> --- Inbolger@egroups.com, "randall robar" <rrobar@s...> wrote:
> > Hi Gang,
> >
> > Just as I'm ready to go 3D with Micro winter has arrived and the
> > temperature has dropped. Epoxy, of course, needs 40+ degress F.
> for
> > several hours to cure. So the questions are:
> >
> > (1) Is a small electric heater with a tarp over the boat SAFE?
> >
> > (2) Has anyone done #1 or did you just put everything on hold
> (gasp!)
> > until spring?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > randy
> > grounded and cold in boston
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> - no flogging dead horses
> - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> - stay on topic and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
While epoxy won't cure below a certain temperature, getting below
that temperature doesn't mean it will never cure. As soon as the
temperature goes up, it will resume it's cure. In fact, "set up"
epoxy continues to cure for maybe months after we consider it cured.
A really hot day may even enhance it's cure a little even after it
has been "cured" for months. Get a copy of the System Three Epoxy
manual where there is a good discussion of this.
I worked on my Micro outside last winter in New Jersey. In cold
weather the nighttime temperatures were below freezing, but the
daytime temperatures were in the 40's Fahrenheit. It took a week for
some of the stuff to cure, but the cold only slowed it up, it didn't
stop it from ever curing. (Cold weather does mean you have a very
long time to work with the stuff before it kicks off.)
Tom Etherington
that temperature doesn't mean it will never cure. As soon as the
temperature goes up, it will resume it's cure. In fact, "set up"
epoxy continues to cure for maybe months after we consider it cured.
A really hot day may even enhance it's cure a little even after it
has been "cured" for months. Get a copy of the System Three Epoxy
manual where there is a good discussion of this.
I worked on my Micro outside last winter in New Jersey. In cold
weather the nighttime temperatures were below freezing, but the
daytime temperatures were in the 40's Fahrenheit. It took a week for
some of the stuff to cure, but the cold only slowed it up, it didn't
stop it from ever curing. (Cold weather does mean you have a very
long time to work with the stuff before it kicks off.)
Tom Etherington
--- Inbolger@egroups.com, "randall robar" <rrobar@s...> wrote:
> Hi Gang,
>
> Just as I'm ready to go 3D with Micro winter has arrived and the
> temperature has dropped. Epoxy, of course, needs 40+ degress F.
for
> several hours to cure. So the questions are:
>
> (1) Is a small electric heater with a tarp over the boat SAFE?
>
> (2) Has anyone done #1 or did you just put everything on hold
(gasp!)
> until spring?
>
> Thanks,
> randy
> grounded and cold in boston
Hi,
Just make sure you have enough ventilation and wear respirator and
protective covering. Just read an article on the health issues of the New
Zealand boatbuilding industry. It is quite scary. Athma from wood and resin
dust, dermatitis from resins, tremors and personality changes as symptoms
from chemical poisoning. Some individuals developed these tremors and
personality changes from exposure to epoxy resins, which I thought were OK.
It seemed none of the manufacturers believe them, but the symptoms is
consistent with chemical poisoning. Here in NZ the saying is that boat
builders don't get old. 8 - 10 years and their health packs up. Rather be
prudent with lots of protective measures, perhaps a positive airflow mask
when working under tarps in the cold. No use offering up one's health to
have the boat of your dreams and then not able to enjoy it for a long time.
Just my 2 cents.
regards
Paul - NZ - where it is suppose to be summer, but its 8 degC, raining and
20kt winds.
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
- no flogging dead horses
- add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
- stay on topic and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
Just make sure you have enough ventilation and wear respirator and
protective covering. Just read an article on the health issues of the New
Zealand boatbuilding industry. It is quite scary. Athma from wood and resin
dust, dermatitis from resins, tremors and personality changes as symptoms
from chemical poisoning. Some individuals developed these tremors and
personality changes from exposure to epoxy resins, which I thought were OK.
It seemed none of the manufacturers believe them, but the symptoms is
consistent with chemical poisoning. Here in NZ the saying is that boat
builders don't get old. 8 - 10 years and their health packs up. Rather be
prudent with lots of protective measures, perhaps a positive airflow mask
when working under tarps in the cold. No use offering up one's health to
have the boat of your dreams and then not able to enjoy it for a long time.
Just my 2 cents.
regards
Paul - NZ - where it is suppose to be summer, but its 8 degC, raining and
20kt winds.
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
- no flogging dead horses
- add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
- stay on topic and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> That is that epoxy will harden or cure or set up orEven though it cures, it may not develop as much strength as it would
> whatever you want to call it at low temps.
at the proper temperature.
PHV
Randy, I am an infrequent contributor here. But when I read your
"Epoxy, of course, needs 40+ degress F. for several hours to
cure" I was reminded of my bitter lessons working outdoors in
Minnesota. That is that epoxy will harden or cure or set up or
whatever you want to call it at low temps. And I kept using it
around 50+ degrees. I found, however, that epoxy didn't saturate,
soak, bond, penetrate, flow... all the important working and
structural characteristics in composite construction. I had to
tear apart some fairly big assemblies due to my overconfidence,
haste... what-not.
Good luck to you! (Test as you go?)
Gregg
"Epoxy, of course, needs 40+ degress F. for several hours to
cure" I was reminded of my bitter lessons working outdoors in
Minnesota. That is that epoxy will harden or cure or set up or
whatever you want to call it at low temps. And I kept using it
around 50+ degrees. I found, however, that epoxy didn't saturate,
soak, bond, penetrate, flow... all the important working and
structural characteristics in composite construction. I had to
tear apart some fairly big assemblies due to my overconfidence,
haste... what-not.
Good luck to you! (Test as you go?)
Gregg
Hi Leo,
Very good point!That is why I mentioned how each must make
themselves aware of the dangers of working with"heat,chemicals and
CO2".
9 degrees Celsius?Sounds almost warm!;-)
Peter
Very good point!That is why I mentioned how each must make
themselves aware of the dangers of working with"heat,chemicals and
CO2".
9 degrees Celsius?Sounds almost warm!;-)
Peter
--- Inbolger@egroups.com, "Leo W. Foltz" <leo@l...> wrote:
> Peter,
>
> >Keeping the ceiling of the "shop" low enough to just stand upright
helps
> >speed up the heating process
>
> ventilating the shop can be a problem. I became Epoxy sensitized in
exactly
> that situation!
>
> Leo
> Duesseldorf, Germany 9° Celsius
Peter,
that situation!
Leo
Duesseldorf, Germany 9° Celsius
>Keeping the ceiling of the "shop" low enough to just stand upright helpsventilating the shop can be a problem. I became Epoxy sensitized in exactly
>speed up the heating process
that situation!
Leo
Duesseldorf, Germany 9° Celsius
Hello Randy,
I've built a few boats(SURF,ELVER,MICRO,to name a few)up here in
Montreal and have done so outdoors,in a polytarp shed,in winter.The
best epoxy I have yet to find for cold weather operations is COLD-
CURE EPOXY from SYSTEM THREE EPOXY(they bought out INDUSTRIAL
FORMULATORS of CANADA last year).My method is as follows:keep your
epoxy in buckets of hot water,have a couple of 100 watt lightbulbs
shining on your work area(you can also use heat lamps),try and store
your wood in a heated area prior to bringing it out to the"shop".As
long as the inside temperature does not drop bellow 0C /32F things
will be fine.To heat the inside of my"shop",I used a combination of
kerosene heater and electric base board.The kerosene heater would be
started up first to chase away the cold while I would keep busy
indoors.After 20 minites or so,the temperature would be above
freezing and I would then use only the base board heater while
working in the "shop" to keep things from freezing.Keeping the
ceiling of the "shop" low enough to just stand upright helps speed up
the heating process as does a bunch of snow piled up high and all
around the "shop"to insulate the place.On bright sunny days you
almost experience something of a greenhouse effect.Not that gardening
crosses ones mind when it is -23C(however happy that thought may be)
but it does allow you to use the kerosene heater less.Of course,you
must make yourself aware of all the big bad dangers associated
with;heat,chemicals and CO2.
Anyway,that's my little story of encouragement for you.Surely
Bostons' winters are a wee bit milder then the stuff us Pinkos to the
North of you experience!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,longing to see palm trees sprouting,once
the "Greenhouse"effect kicks into full gear,on the shores of the
St.Lawrence...............
I've built a few boats(SURF,ELVER,MICRO,to name a few)up here in
Montreal and have done so outdoors,in a polytarp shed,in winter.The
best epoxy I have yet to find for cold weather operations is COLD-
CURE EPOXY from SYSTEM THREE EPOXY(they bought out INDUSTRIAL
FORMULATORS of CANADA last year).My method is as follows:keep your
epoxy in buckets of hot water,have a couple of 100 watt lightbulbs
shining on your work area(you can also use heat lamps),try and store
your wood in a heated area prior to bringing it out to the"shop".As
long as the inside temperature does not drop bellow 0C /32F things
will be fine.To heat the inside of my"shop",I used a combination of
kerosene heater and electric base board.The kerosene heater would be
started up first to chase away the cold while I would keep busy
indoors.After 20 minites or so,the temperature would be above
freezing and I would then use only the base board heater while
working in the "shop" to keep things from freezing.Keeping the
ceiling of the "shop" low enough to just stand upright helps speed up
the heating process as does a bunch of snow piled up high and all
around the "shop"to insulate the place.On bright sunny days you
almost experience something of a greenhouse effect.Not that gardening
crosses ones mind when it is -23C(however happy that thought may be)
but it does allow you to use the kerosene heater less.Of course,you
must make yourself aware of all the big bad dangers associated
with;heat,chemicals and CO2.
Anyway,that's my little story of encouragement for you.Surely
Bostons' winters are a wee bit milder then the stuff us Pinkos to the
North of you experience!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,longing to see palm trees sprouting,once
the "Greenhouse"effect kicks into full gear,on the shores of the
St.Lawrence...............
--- Inbolger@egroups.com, "randall robar" <rrobar@s...> wrote:
> Hi Gang,
>
> Just as I'm ready to go 3D with Micro winter has arrived and the
> temperature has dropped. Epoxy, of course, needs 40+ degress F.
for
> several hours to cure. So the questions are:
>
> (1) Is a small electric heater with a tarp over the boat SAFE?
>
> (2) Has anyone done #1 or did you just put everything on hold
(gasp!)
> until spring?
>
> Thanks,
> randy
> grounded and cold in boston
I'd be real careful with any heater where part of the heater got warm
enough to ignite anything. There are oil filled heaters that don't,
but you're still supposed to have a minimum amount of space around
them. Make sure there is almost no chance of anything falling on the
heater. Some model airplane guys use electric blankets (obviously with
plastic underneath) for this purpose.
enough to ignite anything. There are oil filled heaters that don't,
but you're still supposed to have a minimum amount of space around
them. Make sure there is almost no chance of anything falling on the
heater. Some model airplane guys use electric blankets (obviously with
plastic underneath) for this purpose.
--- Inbolger@egroups.com, "randall robar" <rrobar@s...> wrote:
> Hi Gang,
>
> Just as I'm ready to go 3D with Micro winter has arrived and the
> temperature has dropped. Epoxy, of course, needs 40+ degress F. for
> several hours to cure. So the questions are:
>
> (1) Is a small electric heater with a tarp over the boat SAFE?
>
> (2) Has anyone done #1 or did you just put everything on hold
(gasp!)
> until spring?
>
> Thanks,
> randy
> grounded and cold in boston
Randy
It can be done, but how safe depends on your setup. Your electric bill may
soar. Kerosene heaters work well, and even hot water bottles (refilled
every so often) will help cure small areas. Buy a thermometer or two so you
can see how effective your heaters are. Epoxy takes a lot longer at low
temperatures, even after running the heaters all night you might have to
leave it for a week, assuming temperatures are above freezing during the
day.
You don't say if you're inside or out -- even a drafty shed is a lot better
than working under a big tarp outside. Although if you want to get serious,
hang plastic walls on the big tarp, and rent an industrial size kerosene
heater -- these have powerful fans and sound like small jet engines. This
is affordable for the odd weekend.
Make sure your epoxy and hardener are at the recommended temperature, and
preheat the pieces to be glued or covered. Wetting out glass cloth is
awkward, to say the least -- start with small jobs to see if you really want
to do it.
My epoxy (Cold Cure) cured okay down to nearly freezing, with no discernible
blush or other problem.
The shop notes on the CLC website give some good hints -- I forget the
details, but thought they were good when I read them.
Good luck,
Jamie Orr
-----Original Message-----
From: randall robar [mailto:rrobar@...]
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2000 6:16 AM
To:bolger@egroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Heating so Epoxy Cures
Hi Gang,
Just as I'm ready to go 3D with Micro winter has arrived and the
temperature has dropped. Epoxy, of course, needs 40+ degress F. for
several hours to cure. So the questions are:
(1) Is a small electric heater with a tarp over the boat SAFE?
(2) Has anyone done #1 or did you just put everything on hold (gasp!)
until spring?
Thanks,
randy
grounded and cold in boston
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
- no flogging dead horses
- add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
- stay on topic and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
It can be done, but how safe depends on your setup. Your electric bill may
soar. Kerosene heaters work well, and even hot water bottles (refilled
every so often) will help cure small areas. Buy a thermometer or two so you
can see how effective your heaters are. Epoxy takes a lot longer at low
temperatures, even after running the heaters all night you might have to
leave it for a week, assuming temperatures are above freezing during the
day.
You don't say if you're inside or out -- even a drafty shed is a lot better
than working under a big tarp outside. Although if you want to get serious,
hang plastic walls on the big tarp, and rent an industrial size kerosene
heater -- these have powerful fans and sound like small jet engines. This
is affordable for the odd weekend.
Make sure your epoxy and hardener are at the recommended temperature, and
preheat the pieces to be glued or covered. Wetting out glass cloth is
awkward, to say the least -- start with small jobs to see if you really want
to do it.
My epoxy (Cold Cure) cured okay down to nearly freezing, with no discernible
blush or other problem.
The shop notes on the CLC website give some good hints -- I forget the
details, but thought they were good when I read them.
Good luck,
Jamie Orr
-----Original Message-----
From: randall robar [mailto:rrobar@...]
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2000 6:16 AM
To:bolger@egroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Heating so Epoxy Cures
Hi Gang,
Just as I'm ready to go 3D with Micro winter has arrived and the
temperature has dropped. Epoxy, of course, needs 40+ degress F. for
several hours to cure. So the questions are:
(1) Is a small electric heater with a tarp over the boat SAFE?
(2) Has anyone done #1 or did you just put everything on hold (gasp!)
until spring?
Thanks,
randy
grounded and cold in boston
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
- no flogging dead horses
- add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
- stay on topic and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
Hi -
I use in my cellar a small electric heater, and I surround the heater
and the work with 4'x8' sheets of styrofoam insulation. I don't
crank the heat up too high, and this seems to work just fine. At the
moment I am curing Martha Jane original rudder support assembly. I
did the leeboards last week.
Mike
I use in my cellar a small electric heater, and I surround the heater
and the work with 4'x8' sheets of styrofoam insulation. I don't
crank the heat up too high, and this seems to work just fine. At the
moment I am curing Martha Jane original rudder support assembly. I
did the leeboards last week.
Mike
--- Inbolger@egroups.com, "randall robar" <rrobar@s...> wrote:
> Hi Gang,
>
> Just as I'm ready to go 3D with Micro winter has arrived and the
> temperature has dropped. Epoxy, of course, needs 40+ degress F.
for
> several hours to cure. So the questions are:
>
> (1) Is a small electric heater with a tarp over the boat SAFE?
>
> (2) Has anyone done #1 or did you just put everything on hold
(gasp!)
> until spring?
>
> Thanks,
> randy
> grounded and cold in boston
Hi Gang,
Just as I'm ready to go 3D with Micro winter has arrived and the
temperature has dropped. Epoxy, of course, needs 40+ degress F. for
several hours to cure. So the questions are:
(1) Is a small electric heater with a tarp over the boat SAFE?
(2) Has anyone done #1 or did you just put everything on hold (gasp!)
until spring?
Thanks,
randy
grounded and cold in boston
Just as I'm ready to go 3D with Micro winter has arrived and the
temperature has dropped. Epoxy, of course, needs 40+ degress F. for
several hours to cure. So the questions are:
(1) Is a small electric heater with a tarp over the boat SAFE?
(2) Has anyone done #1 or did you just put everything on hold (gasp!)
until spring?
Thanks,
randy
grounded and cold in boston