[bolger] Re: Polyurethane Glues

My understanding is that one part polyurethanes (like PL Premium,
Gorilla Glue) do not fill gaps in any structural way. Only epoxy has
the ability to structurally fill gaps.

Also, the forestry report section you quoted (and wasn't that a hard
document to read!) was AFTER the "wet" series of tests in which they
boil the pieces. I understand the boiling from an ultimate failure
standpoint, but I think this stuff would probably do OK underwater.
3M5200 does fine underwater.

My "working" belief is that the stuff is ok below the waterline, but
that your joinery determines whether or not the application makes
sense. For me, PL Poly is only used on square, flat items. My joinery
otherwise needs the epoxy.

Robert Lundy


"derek waters" <derek_-@...> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=915
> Two cents worth from someone who is definitely NOT a materials
technologist
> :)
>
> As I understand it, one part polyurethanes 'gap fill' in as much as
they
> give off CO2 as part of the curing process. The 'fill' is gas bubbles
in
> glue - low on structural strength. My current bottle of Excel came
with a
> 'Not gap filling' warning leaflet. Sadly, my joinery is not up to the
> perfectly planed joints used in the tests carried out by the USDA :)
>
> I'm also a bit concerned by the section of the Forest Service report
which
> states :-
>
> >Essentially,
> >the resorcinol bonds were as durable as the wood itself, as
indicated by
> the high
> >level of wood failure. The polyurethane bonds were much less durable
than
> the
> >resorcinol bonds on both wood species.
>
> The figures look as though wet joints in the polyurethanes were
pretty weak.
> Probably I'm missing something.
>
> Derek
>
"fritz funk" <fritz-@...> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=910
> Re: Folding Schooner Progress and Adhesives
> I was going to put this out to the group as I read it the other day
either from this group or the Gemini net. If you have heard it
egnore. On our sailboats 5200 and the like is of great value, but gets
all over other finished places. A professional who was working on a
boat was observed using a little wd 40 on a rag to easily clean up "THE
WHITE DEATH''. A sailing friend responded from the Gem net that he
when the tubes harden at the end, punched a new hole in the side of the
tube, cover as well as you can. This hardens anyway, but do it again
in another place. This may not apply to those building with it as it
does not sit around that long as a rule. Smooth Glueing--Brad
> Leander,
>
> Thanks for keeping us posted on the folding schooner progress!
>
> You might consider "PL-Premium polyurethane construction adhesive" as
a
> low cost alternative to 5200. Nice wide temperature range, good
> consistency for bedding (comes in a red and yellow caulk tube) helpful
> moisture characteristics, and kicks much much faster than 5200.
>
> Anybody out there able to compare the merits of the various LIQUID
> polyurethane glues? The price/performance seems particularly well
> tailored to Bolgerist Instant Boats. Gorilla Glue is the (more or
less)
> original, but expensive. I've noticed there are lots more
> polyurethane's appearing on the market. Titebond's got one now, PL
> does, and Probond, and probably others. I've used some but not all,
> and still haven't reached a final opinion. How about posting your
> experience with your favorite brand(s) here, pro's and cons etc.
> Cleanup is an issue too - who's got the best neat tricks for dealing
> with polyurethane squeezout?
>
> Fritz
>
>
Two cents worth from someone who is definitely NOT a materials technologist
:)

As I understand it, one part polyurethanes 'gap fill' in as much as they
give off CO2 as part of the curing process. The 'fill' is gas bubbles in
glue - low on structural strength. My current bottle of Excel came with a
'Not gap filling' warning leaflet. Sadly, my joinery is not up to the
perfectly planed joints used in the tests carried out by the USDA :)

I'm also a bit concerned by the section of the Forest Service report which
states :-

>Essentially,
>the resorcinol bonds were as durable as the wood itself, as indicated by
the high
>level of wood failure. The polyurethane bonds were much less durable than
the
>resorcinol bonds on both wood species.

The figures look as though wet joints in the polyurethanes were pretty weak.
Probably I'm missing something.

Derek
Thanks to all for the good suggestions. Re putting the stiffeners
inside the bulkheads. It could work on the forward hull. On the back
hull they need to be on top to take the hardwood pins that serve as
halyard cleats. I also wonder a little about how these stiffeners line
up on the forward and aft hulls. They will lay end to end on both sides
of the top decks as shown in the plans creating a kind of back bone
down each side of the middle section when the schooner is folded down.

I would be interested in seeing the plans for a cabin.

I have given up on the motor well until the aft hull is assembled and I
can see where everything goes.

Thanks again,
Leander

steve korson <s-korso-@...> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=907
> Leander Harding wrote:
>
> > We then cut out deck stiffeners out of a 2 x 4 cut in half. The plan
> > key says these members should be one and one half inch square. Using
> > our scale rule it is clear that Bolger has drawn 2x4s on the plan.
On
> > the aft hull these deck stiffeners will have holes in them to accept
> > 3/4" hardwood pins for halyard cleats. Any suggestions?
>
> I don't have any advice to offer regarding the size of the deck
stiffeners, I had just assumed the plan key was correct.
>
> I do have a question for you, regarding the deck stiffeners. Far be
if from me to question Bolgers aesthetics, but can you see any reason
whey they have to be on the TOP of the deck?
>
> After building my scale model, I didn't like the deck stiffeners on
top. It appears it would be more work to 'recess' them into the
bulkheads, and have them below deck, but not too much. I also
> thought that from an engineering standpoint, they would better serve
to stiffen the deck from below.
>
> Also, did you ever solve your dilemma as to how to put in the motor
well? Again, after building the model, I found it easiest to fill in
the entire well with a sloped 'shelf', not just half as the
> plans imply. Again, I suspect that the details will need to be worked
out when one actually has a motor.
>
> Finally, I have given some thought to a cabin, after working on the
model, but haven't spent much time on it (Its only speculation until I
have the boat built.) It depends on how wet/stable the boat
> is before I would consider a cabin. It also would depend on where
crew needs to be when sailing her - wouldn't want a cabin in the way.
However, if stable and dry enough, it looks to me like a small
> cabin could be built in the forward section of the aft hull, and be
built in such a way that it fits inside the aft section of the forward
hull when folded. It could also be built so that there is
> room for a person in the aft of the forward section of the aft
hull... [grin] Also, by building it to fit inside the aft section of
the forward hull, there would be small bit of room to get around the
> cabin. Not sure if this room would be useable.
>
> I can send a diagram if anyone is interested.
>
> The height would be limited by the forward cabin when folded, but it
seems to me that approx. 3.5 feet of cabin could be achieved. I'm not a
very big person, so this would be more than adequate for
> weekend sleeping quarters for my wife and I. I also thought that it
could be designed in such a way so that it could be put in or out as
needed. I haven't had time to work out any weight measurements,
> and again, I would need the boat before I would be able to work out
any details. Just thought I would share the idea with others while I
was replying, since I have heard the topic brought up in the
> past.
>
> Regards,
> Steve
>
>s-korson@...
>
i've used the liquid PL from Home Depot on the windsprint for some small
jobs. Pretty good, except you have to keep the bottle stored upside down to
prevent seal-off.

The forest service did some testing. Its even stonger dry than
rescorcinol(Sp?), but it fails the boil test (just like urea resin glue and
we all know that it works fine).

I love the stuff and I think it may be more cost effective than Weldwood.
AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO MIX IT UP!

ROBERT LUNDY

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Fritz Funk [mailto:fritzf@...]
> Sent: 22 November, 1999 7:55 PM
> To:bolger@...
> Subject: [bolger] Polyurethane Glues
>
>
> Re: Folding Schooner Progress and Adhesives
>
> Leander,
>
> Thanks for keeping us posted on the folding schooner progress!
>
> You might consider "PL-Premium polyurethane construction adhesive" as a
> low cost alternative to 5200. Nice wide temperature range, good
> consistency for bedding (comes in a red and yellow caulk tube) helpful
> moisture characteristics, and kicks much much faster than 5200.
>
> Anybody out there able to compare the merits of the various LIQUID
> polyurethane glues? The price/performance seems particularly well
> tailored to Bolgerist Instant Boats. Gorilla Glue is the (more or less)
> original, but expensive. I've noticed there are lots more
> polyurethane's appearing on the market. Titebond's got one now, PL
> does, and Probond, and probably others. I've used some but not all,
> and still haven't reached a final opinion. How about posting your
> experience with your favorite brand(s) here, pro's and cons etc.
> Cleanup is an issue too - who's got the best neat tricks for dealing
> with polyurethane squeezout?
>
> Fritz
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Was the salesman clueless? Productopia has the answers.
>http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/1702
>
>
>
> -- Talk to your group with your own voice!
> --http://www.egroups.com/VoiceChatPage?listName=bolger&m=1
>
>
Re: Folding Schooner Progress and Adhesives

Leander,

Thanks for keeping us posted on the folding schooner progress!

You might consider "PL-Premium polyurethane construction adhesive" as a
low cost alternative to 5200. Nice wide temperature range, good
consistency for bedding (comes in a red and yellow caulk tube) helpful
moisture characteristics, and kicks much much faster than 5200.

Anybody out there able to compare the merits of the various LIQUID
polyurethane glues? The price/performance seems particularly well
tailored to Bolgerist Instant Boats. Gorilla Glue is the (more or less)
original, but expensive. I've noticed there are lots more
polyurethane's appearing on the market. Titebond's got one now, PL
does, and Probond, and probably others. I've used some but not all,
and still haven't reached a final opinion. How about posting your
experience with your favorite brand(s) here, pro's and cons etc.
Cleanup is an issue too - who's got the best neat tricks for dealing
with polyurethane squeezout?

Fritz
This has to be one of the BEST e-mail diagrams I have EVER
seen!

Ron


>From: "Phillip Lea" <plea@...>

> Diagram doesn't come through to the egroup. If you are equipped you

>> _
>> _____________ | |
>> | || |
>> | || |
>> WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
>> | || |
>> | _______|| |
>> | | \_/
>> | | ______V_________
>> | | | deck )
>> | | |_______________(
>> | |____ / | |
>> | | | | |
>> | | | | |
>> | | | gun- | |
>> | | | wale | | <- side planking
>> |__________| | | |
>> \______| |
>> | |
>> ~~~
>>
>> Hope the diagram comes through.
>>
>> Phil Lea
Leander Harding wrote:

> We then cut out deck stiffeners out of a 2 x 4 cut in half. The plan
> key says these members should be one and one half inch square. Using
> our scale rule it is clear that Bolger has drawn 2x4s on the plan. On
> the aft hull these deck stiffeners will have holes in them to accept
> 3/4" hardwood pins for halyard cleats. Any suggestions?

I don't have any advice to offer regarding the size of the deck stiffeners, I had just assumed the plan key was correct.

I do have a question for you, regarding the deck stiffeners. Far be if from me to question Bolgers aesthetics, but can you see any reason whey they have to be on the TOP of the deck?

After building my scale model, I didn't like the deck stiffeners on top. It appears it would be more work to 'recess' them into the bulkheads, and have them below deck, but not too much. I also
thought that from an engineering standpoint, they would better serve to stiffen the deck from below.

Also, did you ever solve your dilemma as to how to put in the motor well? Again, after building the model, I found it easiest to fill in the entire well with a sloped 'shelf', not just half as the
plans imply. Again, I suspect that the details will need to be worked out when one actually has a motor.

Finally, I have given some thought to a cabin, after working on the model, but haven't spent much time on it (Its only speculation until I have the boat built.) It depends on how wet/stable the boat
is before I would consider a cabin. It also would depend on where crew needs to be when sailing her - wouldn't want a cabin in the way. However, if stable and dry enough, it looks to me like a small
cabin could be built in the forward section of the aft hull, and be built in such a way that it fits inside the aft section of the forward hull when folded. It could also be built so that there is
room for a person in the aft of the forward section of the aft hull... [grin] Also, by building it to fit inside the aft section of the forward hull, there would be small bit of room to get around the
cabin. Not sure if this room would be useable.

I can send a diagram if anyone is interested.

The height would be limited by the forward cabin when folded, but it seems to me that approx. 3.5 feet of cabin could be achieved. I'm not a very big person, so this would be more than adequate for
weekend sleeping quarters for my wife and I. I also thought that it could be designed in such a way so that it could be put in or out as needed. I haven't had time to work out any weight measurements,
and again, I would need the boat before I would be able to work out any details. Just thought I would share the idea with others while I was replying, since I have heard the topic brought up in the
past.

Regards,
Steve

s-korson@...
Diagram doesn't come through to the egroup. If you are equipped you
can copy the text and paste into a word processing program and change
the font to a non-proportional font like courier new and it should look
fine.

Phil Lea

"phillip lea" <ple-@...> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=905
> How about a jig built as shown below. Clamp or temporarily lay the
> deck in
> place with about 1" rough overhang -- then trace a line on the deck
> surface
> with lower part of the "C" riding flush against the gunwale. I hold
> the pencil
> on with a nylon cable tie. The length of the "C" fingers is adjusted
> based on
> your pencil diameter and how far back from the edge you want the
deck.
> This
> worked famously for the decks of my June Bug where I had given the
> gunwale a
> rounded upper edge and needed to place the deck back about 1/4 to
3/8".
> I
> think this idea came from the book "Canoes for the Backyard Builder".
> _
> _____________ | |
> | || |
> | || |
> WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
> | || |
> | _______|| |
> | | \_/
> | | ______V_________
> | | | deck )
> | | |_______________(
> | |____ / | |
> | | | | |
> | | | | |
> | | | gun- | |
> | | | wale | | <- side planking
> |__________| | | |
> \______| |
> | |
> ~~~
>
> Hope the diagram comes through.
>
> Phil Lea
> ______________________________
> "robert n. lundy" <rlund-@...> wrote:
> original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=899
> > Leander-
> >
> > good to hear from you again! Polyurethane is hard to "get clean".
> I've
> > found that cutting with a utility knife beats sanding down, not sure
> why it
> > cuts easily and sands hard.
> >
> > As for decks, have you thought of laying it on and trimming excess
> with a
> > laminate trimming bit on a router? Even if the gunwales are at an
> angle,
> > you can get oversized bearings for the bit. This was one of the
> "easy" ways
> > to attach my Windsprint bottom (learned I think on John Bell's
> website).
> >
> > Robert Lundy
> > St. Petersburg, Fla.
> >http://members.xoom.com/flboatyard
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Leander Harding [mailto:harding2@...]
> > > Sent: 20 November, 1999 12:15 AM
> > > To:bolger@...
> > > Subject: [bolger] Fldg Schnr Progress and Questions
> > >
> > >
> > > Work on our Folding Schooner has slowed down but we are still at
it.
> > > Today I scraped foaming PL glue off the frames for the aft hull.
We
> are
> > > using a lot of different materials on this boat to see how they
do.
> > > This glue is easy to apply. Smells absolutely foul and like it is
no
> > > good for you at all. Fills gaps well and is very hard to scrape or
> > > sand. I wouldn't use it where finish will be crucial. I used it
for
> the
> > > frames because the temperature has gotten to the point where the
> shop
> > > must be heated for the epoxy to cure well. The glue has a better
> temp
> > > range.
> > >
> > > All three of my boys helped me turn the forward hull over and then
> my
> > > oldest son and I worked on the deck that covers area between the
> > > transom of the forward hull and the bulkhead 25 inches forward of
> it.
> > > The gunwales had to be planed flat to accept the deck. The deck
> dosen't
> > > come all the way out. There is no easy way to measure or lift the
> > > shape. We finally used a batten set parallel to the sweep of the
> side
> > > panels and that gave us a reasonable line to work with.
> > >
> > > We then cut out deck stiffeners out of a 2 x 4 cut in half. The
plan
> > > key says these members should be one and one half inch square.
Using
> > > our scale rule it is clear that Bolger has drawn 2x4s on the plan.
> On
> > > the aft hull these deck stiffeners will have holes in them to
accept
> > > 3/4" hardwood pins for halyard cleats. Any suggestions?
> > >
> > > After cutting out all the pieces we temporarily assembled the
pieces
> > > using 1 1/4 inch scorpion screws. These are the square drive
> > > bugleheaded screws we have liked so much. This box is ceramic
coated
> > > and sold as deck screws. They don't strip out in the pine framing
> like
> > > the 3/4 inch stainless screws sometimes do and they always
> completely
> > > countersink themselves. The ceramic coated are half the price of
the
> > > stainless and look ok to me for areas that are not subject to
> abrasion.
> > > With epoxy sealing and paint I can't imagine any trouble. It will
> > > probably be spring before we get around to sealing and painting
and
> we
> > > won't hammer the deck down irrevocably until then.
> > >
> > > Tomorrow we are going to cut out the forepeak deck. This is
another
> > > tricky lay out. We are going to lay nails on side with their heads
> on
> > > the line on the gunwale that we need to follow and put the decking
> down
> > > on top and give it a few wacks with a hammer. This is a time
honored
> > > technique for transfering a line from layout to material. I have
> never
> > > used it like this. Let you know if it works.
> > >
> > > We are thinking of using 3M 5200 to bed the decks, stiffeners and
to
> > > attach the aft side panels to the aft frames and for gunwales and
> > > chines. It has a wider temperature range than our epoxy and we
have
> > > never used it and thought we might give it a try.
> > >
> > > More later.
> > > Peace,
> > > Leander
> > >
> > >
>
How about a jig built as shown below. Clamp or temporarily lay the
deck in
place with about 1" rough overhang -- then trace a line on the deck
surface
with lower part of the "C" riding flush against the gunwale. I hold
the pencil
on with a nylon cable tie. The length of the "C" fingers is adjusted
based on
your pencil diameter and how far back from the edge you want the deck.
This
worked famously for the decks of my June Bug where I had given the
gunwale a
rounded upper edge and needed to place the deck back about 1/4 to 3/8".
I
think this idea came from the book "Canoes for the Backyard Builder".
_
_____________ | |
| || |
| || |
WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
| || |
| _______|| |
| | \_/
| | ______V_________
| | | deck )
| | |_______________(
| |____ / | |
| | | | |
| | | | |
| | | gun- | |
| | | wale | | <- side planking
|__________| | | |
\______| |
| |
~~~

Hope the diagram comes through.

Phil Lea
______________________________
"robert n. lundy" <rlund-@...> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=899
> Leander-
>
> good to hear from you again! Polyurethane is hard to "get clean".
I've
> found that cutting with a utility knife beats sanding down, not sure
why it
> cuts easily and sands hard.
>
> As for decks, have you thought of laying it on and trimming excess
with a
> laminate trimming bit on a router? Even if the gunwales are at an
angle,
> you can get oversized bearings for the bit. This was one of the
"easy" ways
> to attach my Windsprint bottom (learned I think on John Bell's
website).
>
> Robert Lundy
> St. Petersburg, Fla.
>http://members.xoom.com/flboatyard
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Leander Harding [mailto:harding2@...]
> > Sent: 20 November, 1999 12:15 AM
> > To:bolger@...
> > Subject: [bolger] Fldg Schnr Progress and Questions
> >
> >
> > Work on our Folding Schooner has slowed down but we are still at it.
> > Today I scraped foaming PL glue off the frames for the aft hull. We
are
> > using a lot of different materials on this boat to see how they do.
> > This glue is easy to apply. Smells absolutely foul and like it is no
> > good for you at all. Fills gaps well and is very hard to scrape or
> > sand. I wouldn't use it where finish will be crucial. I used it for
the
> > frames because the temperature has gotten to the point where the
shop
> > must be heated for the epoxy to cure well. The glue has a better
temp
> > range.
> >
> > All three of my boys helped me turn the forward hull over and then
my
> > oldest son and I worked on the deck that covers area between the
> > transom of the forward hull and the bulkhead 25 inches forward of
it.
> > The gunwales had to be planed flat to accept the deck. The deck
dosen't
> > come all the way out. There is no easy way to measure or lift the
> > shape. We finally used a batten set parallel to the sweep of the
side
> > panels and that gave us a reasonable line to work with.
> >
> > We then cut out deck stiffeners out of a 2 x 4 cut in half. The plan
> > key says these members should be one and one half inch square. Using
> > our scale rule it is clear that Bolger has drawn 2x4s on the plan.
On
> > the aft hull these deck stiffeners will have holes in them to accept
> > 3/4" hardwood pins for halyard cleats. Any suggestions?
> >
> > After cutting out all the pieces we temporarily assembled the pieces
> > using 1 1/4 inch scorpion screws. These are the square drive
> > bugleheaded screws we have liked so much. This box is ceramic coated
> > and sold as deck screws. They don't strip out in the pine framing
like
> > the 3/4 inch stainless screws sometimes do and they always
completely
> > countersink themselves. The ceramic coated are half the price of the
> > stainless and look ok to me for areas that are not subject to
abrasion.
> > With epoxy sealing and paint I can't imagine any trouble. It will
> > probably be spring before we get around to sealing and painting and
we
> > won't hammer the deck down irrevocably until then.
> >
> > Tomorrow we are going to cut out the forepeak deck. This is another
> > tricky lay out. We are going to lay nails on side with their heads
on
> > the line on the gunwale that we need to follow and put the decking
down
> > on top and give it a few wacks with a hammer. This is a time honored
> > technique for transfering a line from layout to material. I have
never
> > used it like this. Let you know if it works.
> >
> > We are thinking of using 3M 5200 to bed the decks, stiffeners and to
> > attach the aft side panels to the aft frames and for gunwales and
> > chines. It has a wider temperature range than our epoxy and we have
> > never used it and thought we might give it a try.
> >
> > More later.
> > Peace,
> > Leander
> >
> >
"robert n. lundy" <rlund-@...> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=899
> Leander-
>
> good to hear from you again! Polyurethane is hard to "get clean".
I've
> found that cutting with a utility knife beats sanding down, not sure
why it
> cuts easily and sands hard.
>
> As for decks, have you thought of laying it on and trimming excess
with a
> laminate trimming bit on a router? Even if the gunwales are at an
angle,
> you can get oversized bearings for the bit. This was one of the
"easy" ways
> to attach my Windsprint bottom (learned I think on John Bell's
website).
>
> Robert Lundy
> St. Petersburg, Fla.
>http://members.xoom.com/flboatyard

Thanks for the suggestion. If you follow the plans the deck only comes
out about 3/4" on the gunwale. So it is quite far from the edge to use
any kind of flush cutting rig.
L.S.H.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Leander Harding [mailto:harding2@...]
> > Sent: 20 November, 1999 12:15 AM
> > To:bolger@...
> > Subject: [bolger] Fldg Schnr Progress and Questions
> >
> >
> > Work on our Folding Schooner has slowed down but we are still at it.
> > Today I scraped foaming PL glue off the frames for the aft hull. We
are
> > using a lot of different materials on this boat to see how they do.
> > This glue is easy to apply. Smells absolutely foul and like it is no
> > good for you at all. Fills gaps well and is very hard to scrape or
> > sand. I wouldn't use it where finish will be crucial. I used it for
the
> > frames because the temperature has gotten to the point where the
shop
> > must be heated for the epoxy to cure well. The glue has a better
temp
> > range.
> >
> > All three of my boys helped me turn the forward hull over and then
my
> > oldest son and I worked on the deck that covers area between the
> > transom of the forward hull and the bulkhead 25 inches forward of
it.
> > The gunwales had to be planed flat to accept the deck. The deck
dosen't
> > come all the way out. There is no easy way to measure or lift the
> > shape. We finally used a batten set parallel to the sweep of the
side
> > panels and that gave us a reasonable line to work with.
> >
> > We then cut out deck stiffeners out of a 2 x 4 cut in half. The plan
> > key says these members should be one and one half inch square. Using
> > our scale rule it is clear that Bolger has drawn 2x4s on the plan.
On
> > the aft hull these deck stiffeners will have holes in them to accept
> > 3/4" hardwood pins for halyard cleats. Any suggestions?
> >
> > After cutting out all the pieces we temporarily assembled the pieces
> > using 1 1/4 inch scorpion screws. These are the square drive
> > bugleheaded screws we have liked so much. This box is ceramic coated
> > and sold as deck screws. They don't strip out in the pine framing
like
> > the 3/4 inch stainless screws sometimes do and they always
completely
> > countersink themselves. The ceramic coated are half the price of the
> > stainless and look ok to me for areas that are not subject to
abrasion.
> > With epoxy sealing and paint I can't imagine any trouble. It will
> > probably be spring before we get around to sealing and painting and
we
> > won't hammer the deck down irrevocably until then.
> >
> > Tomorrow we are going to cut out the forepeak deck. This is another
> > tricky lay out. We are going to lay nails on side with their heads
on
> > the line on the gunwale that we need to follow and put the decking
down
> > on top and give it a few wacks with a hammer. This is a time honored
> > technique for transfering a line from layout to material. I have
never
> > used it like this. Let you know if it works.
> >
> > We are thinking of using 3M 5200 to bed the decks, stiffeners and to
> > attach the aft side panels to the aft frames and for gunwales and
> > chines. It has a wider temperature range than our epoxy and we have
> > never used it and thought we might give it a try.
> >
> > More later.
> > Peace,
> > Leander
> >
> >
Leander-

good to hear from you again! Polyurethane is hard to "get clean". I've
found that cutting with a utility knife beats sanding down, not sure why it
cuts easily and sands hard.

As for decks, have you thought of laying it on and trimming excess with a
laminate trimming bit on a router? Even if the gunwales are at an angle,
you can get oversized bearings for the bit. This was one of the "easy" ways
to attach my Windsprint bottom (learned I think on John Bell's website).

Robert Lundy
St. Petersburg, Fla.
http://members.xoom.com/flboatyard

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Leander Harding [mailto:harding2@...]
> Sent: 20 November, 1999 12:15 AM
> To:bolger@...
> Subject: [bolger] Fldg Schnr Progress and Questions
>
>
> Work on our Folding Schooner has slowed down but we are still at it.
> Today I scraped foaming PL glue off the frames for the aft hull. We are
> using a lot of different materials on this boat to see how they do.
> This glue is easy to apply. Smells absolutely foul and like it is no
> good for you at all. Fills gaps well and is very hard to scrape or
> sand. I wouldn't use it where finish will be crucial. I used it for the
> frames because the temperature has gotten to the point where the shop
> must be heated for the epoxy to cure well. The glue has a better temp
> range.
>
> All three of my boys helped me turn the forward hull over and then my
> oldest son and I worked on the deck that covers area between the
> transom of the forward hull and the bulkhead 25 inches forward of it.
> The gunwales had to be planed flat to accept the deck. The deck dosen't
> come all the way out. There is no easy way to measure or lift the
> shape. We finally used a batten set parallel to the sweep of the side
> panels and that gave us a reasonable line to work with.
>
> We then cut out deck stiffeners out of a 2 x 4 cut in half. The plan
> key says these members should be one and one half inch square. Using
> our scale rule it is clear that Bolger has drawn 2x4s on the plan. On
> the aft hull these deck stiffeners will have holes in them to accept
> 3/4" hardwood pins for halyard cleats. Any suggestions?
>
> After cutting out all the pieces we temporarily assembled the pieces
> using 1 1/4 inch scorpion screws. These are the square drive
> bugleheaded screws we have liked so much. This box is ceramic coated
> and sold as deck screws. They don't strip out in the pine framing like
> the 3/4 inch stainless screws sometimes do and they always completely
> countersink themselves. The ceramic coated are half the price of the
> stainless and look ok to me for areas that are not subject to abrasion.
> With epoxy sealing and paint I can't imagine any trouble. It will
> probably be spring before we get around to sealing and painting and we
> won't hammer the deck down irrevocably until then.
>
> Tomorrow we are going to cut out the forepeak deck. This is another
> tricky lay out. We are going to lay nails on side with their heads on
> the line on the gunwale that we need to follow and put the decking down
> on top and give it a few wacks with a hammer. This is a time honored
> technique for transfering a line from layout to material. I have never
> used it like this. Let you know if it works.
>
> We are thinking of using 3M 5200 to bed the decks, stiffeners and to
> attach the aft side panels to the aft frames and for gunwales and
> chines. It has a wider temperature range than our epoxy and we have
> never used it and thought we might give it a try.
>
> More later.
> Peace,
> Leander
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> A Proud Member of the One & Only Associate Network
>http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/1709
>
> -- 20 megs of disk space in your group's Document Vault
> --http://www.egroups.com/docvault/bolger/?m=1
>
>
Work on our Folding Schooner has slowed down but we are still at it.
Today I scraped foaming PL glue off the frames for the aft hull. We are
using a lot of different materials on this boat to see how they do.
This glue is easy to apply. Smells absolutely foul and like it is no
good for you at all. Fills gaps well and is very hard to scrape or
sand. I wouldn't use it where finish will be crucial. I used it for the
frames because the temperature has gotten to the point where the shop
must be heated for the epoxy to cure well. The glue has a better temp
range.

All three of my boys helped me turn the forward hull over and then my
oldest son and I worked on the deck that covers area between the
transom of the forward hull and the bulkhead 25 inches forward of it.
The gunwales had to be planed flat to accept the deck. The deck dosen't
come all the way out. There is no easy way to measure or lift the
shape. We finally used a batten set parallel to the sweep of the side
panels and that gave us a reasonable line to work with.

We then cut out deck stiffeners out of a 2 x 4 cut in half. The plan
key says these members should be one and one half inch square. Using
our scale rule it is clear that Bolger has drawn 2x4s on the plan. On
the aft hull these deck stiffeners will have holes in them to accept
3/4" hardwood pins for halyard cleats. Any suggestions?

After cutting out all the pieces we temporarily assembled the pieces
using 1 1/4 inch scorpion screws. These are the square drive
bugleheaded screws we have liked so much. This box is ceramic coated
and sold as deck screws. They don't strip out in the pine framing like
the 3/4 inch stainless screws sometimes do and they always completely
countersink themselves. The ceramic coated are half the price of the
stainless and look ok to me for areas that are not subject to abrasion.
With epoxy sealing and paint I can't imagine any trouble. It will
probably be spring before we get around to sealing and painting and we
won't hammer the deck down irrevocably until then.

Tomorrow we are going to cut out the forepeak deck. This is another
tricky lay out. We are going to lay nails on side with their heads on
the line on the gunwale that we need to follow and put the decking down
on top and give it a few wacks with a hammer. This is a time honored
technique for transfering a line from layout to material. I have never
used it like this. Let you know if it works.

We are thinking of using 3M 5200 to bed the decks, stiffeners and to
attach the aft side panels to the aft frames and for gunwales and
chines. It has a wider temperature range than our epoxy and we have
never used it and thought we might give it a try.

More later.
Peace,
Leander