Redmond Elver vs Micro - Re: Great Lake Cruiser
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John" <johnpaquette@h...> wrote:
Sorry about the delay in replying but things have been busy :-)
Either boat will fair very well if built with care and good
materials.The Elver requires 88 3/4" square strips(44 per side) and
this can be time consuming compared to just "wrapping" the plywood
sides of the MICRO around the bulkheads.It also can introduce 88
chances for errors to creap in,so you have to be attentive.
stored outdoors through Canadian winters and lived to tell about it:-)
strips. I used 2" galvanized finishing nails on six inch centers for
my strips.Couldn't find those nails in Montreal and ended up ordering
them from Jamestown Distributors in the states.
I used Western Red Cedar for my strips,all vertical grain,and glassed
the entire outside of the hull.The interior was just coated with
epoxy.
on.Be aware that any modifications you may be considering,however
good they may be,will NOT be sanctioned by the designer.
inside.
using your boat John,but you may wish to consider the following:
The plans for the MICRO are more detailed then those of the Elver.
The MICRO has a self-draining cockpit,the Elver doesn't.
The MICRO is fully self rescuing/righting,the Elver isn't.
The MICRO has free-flooding wells to handle onboard messiness like
anchors and gas,the Elver doesn't.
The MICRO has a"clean" and obvious arrangement for steering and motor
placement,the Elver doesn't.
The MICRO has an easier rig to handle,the Elver doesn't.
The MICRO is hard on some folks eyes,the Elver less so.
Now,in all fairness,I should state that I did use my Elver for over 7
years before selling her and that she did provide alot of
enjoyment.However,this enjoyment was tempered somewhat by what I came
to recognize as "grief zones". To wit; I found that placing the
outboard off a side mounted bracket very clumsy at times and plain
stupid at other times.With the boat heeled over on the same side as
the outboard,it never took much to almost bury the motor under the
waves. Another zone had to do with the rig. That free-flying jib is a
real handfull when trying to douse her in a storm and this from a
narrow pointy foredeck.The sequence for lowering this sail is all
very logical on paper but requires two pairs of hands,a third foot
and on eye in the back of your head for once just one of the control
lines is released,the wind will try to sail it right off the boat!
About the only practical but not cheap solution is to add a roller-
furler for the jib. The bigger grief zone regarding the rig is the
mainsail.The peak-sprit is a wonderful thing when fully
secured.However,this is a big stick to have to manhandle.The snotter
needs to be bigger then you think and the snotter line longer then
you think! The furling method suggested on the plans works like a
charm but does not address the reality of that big stick whipping
around up in the air.(remember,you will most likely be wanting to
furl this sail when the winds are just getting too strong and the
waves keep building).A partial solution,which I used, was to add 2
control lines leading from the peak of the sprit to either side of
the cockpit.This helped somewhat in taming the wild gyrations of the
peak-sprit.On the other hand,you may wish to lower the mainsail
completely.......this can be a chore too unless you have extra hands
available for that peak-sprit will have to be released from the
mainsail and secured to the deck while the mainsail flogs itself
overboard........not very nice.......
And if some folks find the clipity-clapity of waves under the bow of
the Micro annoying,they haven't lived until they've heard the
kerthunk-thud of the centerboard in its box while you try to sleep
beside it!
I could go on John, but I do not want to spoil your fun. The Elver is
certainly a beautiful looking boat and it does evoke all sorts of
rommantic images of genteel sailing on calm English ponds with the
swans paddling by. And if that is what excites you,then go for it!( I
know I sure did) However,when all hell is breaking loose and the
shore line is far away, I'll take a MICRO please :-)
Let us know which boat you chose to build!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan, entitled to his own experience based opinion and not
the slightest bit biased toward the MICRO.............yeah right!
> Peter,Hi John,
> In you experience, How do you think the strip planked hull compares
> to the Micro Ply hull with regards to durability, Rot resistance?
> It looks time consuming for sure.
Sorry about the delay in replying but things have been busy :-)
Either boat will fair very well if built with care and good
materials.The Elver requires 88 3/4" square strips(44 per side) and
this can be time consuming compared to just "wrapping" the plywood
sides of the MICRO around the bulkheads.It also can introduce 88
chances for errors to creap in,so you have to be attentive.
>type
> More specifically with a boat that will live outdoors with some
> of a tarp garage shelter, do you think the plywood or the stripAgain,both will fair well if built well.Both my Elver and MICRO were
> planked will handle the freeze that cycle better.
stored outdoors through Canadian winters and lived to tell about it:-)
> Along that line, for the Elver, I am considering using WeldwoodI
> Plastic Resin Glue between the planks with small nails(What type?).
> I might then glass the exterior below the waterline. With the Elver
> guess I would try to find some pine 2 X 8's to rip as hardwood isnot
> recommended. What wood did you use?I would discourage the use of WPRG and favour epoxy between the
strips. I used 2" galvanized finishing nails on six inch centers for
my strips.Couldn't find those nails in Montreal and ended up ordering
them from Jamestown Distributors in the states.
I used Western Red Cedar for my strips,all vertical grain,and glassed
the entire outside of the hull.The interior was just coated with
epoxy.
>in
> The Micro has 400 lbs of lead in the keel, what ballast does the
> Elver have?
> Would it be kind of crazy/unnecessary to put a heavier swing keel
> the Elver?The Elver is essentially an unballasted day boat with a cuddy added
on.Be aware that any modifications you may be considering,however
good they may be,will NOT be sanctioned by the designer.
>No,not really,despite its apparent size there is precious little room
> Is the Elver all that much roomier inside for 2 people?
inside.
>Yes I do/did......very much so! It is not clear to me how you plan on
> I gather from your comments you prefer to sail the Micro
using your boat John,but you may wish to consider the following:
The plans for the MICRO are more detailed then those of the Elver.
The MICRO has a self-draining cockpit,the Elver doesn't.
The MICRO is fully self rescuing/righting,the Elver isn't.
The MICRO has free-flooding wells to handle onboard messiness like
anchors and gas,the Elver doesn't.
The MICRO has a"clean" and obvious arrangement for steering and motor
placement,the Elver doesn't.
The MICRO has an easier rig to handle,the Elver doesn't.
The MICRO is hard on some folks eyes,the Elver less so.
Now,in all fairness,I should state that I did use my Elver for over 7
years before selling her and that she did provide alot of
enjoyment.However,this enjoyment was tempered somewhat by what I came
to recognize as "grief zones". To wit; I found that placing the
outboard off a side mounted bracket very clumsy at times and plain
stupid at other times.With the boat heeled over on the same side as
the outboard,it never took much to almost bury the motor under the
waves. Another zone had to do with the rig. That free-flying jib is a
real handfull when trying to douse her in a storm and this from a
narrow pointy foredeck.The sequence for lowering this sail is all
very logical on paper but requires two pairs of hands,a third foot
and on eye in the back of your head for once just one of the control
lines is released,the wind will try to sail it right off the boat!
About the only practical but not cheap solution is to add a roller-
furler for the jib. The bigger grief zone regarding the rig is the
mainsail.The peak-sprit is a wonderful thing when fully
secured.However,this is a big stick to have to manhandle.The snotter
needs to be bigger then you think and the snotter line longer then
you think! The furling method suggested on the plans works like a
charm but does not address the reality of that big stick whipping
around up in the air.(remember,you will most likely be wanting to
furl this sail when the winds are just getting too strong and the
waves keep building).A partial solution,which I used, was to add 2
control lines leading from the peak of the sprit to either side of
the cockpit.This helped somewhat in taming the wild gyrations of the
peak-sprit.On the other hand,you may wish to lower the mainsail
completely.......this can be a chore too unless you have extra hands
available for that peak-sprit will have to be released from the
mainsail and secured to the deck while the mainsail flogs itself
overboard........not very nice.......
And if some folks find the clipity-clapity of waves under the bow of
the Micro annoying,they haven't lived until they've heard the
kerthunk-thud of the centerboard in its box while you try to sleep
beside it!
I could go on John, but I do not want to spoil your fun. The Elver is
certainly a beautiful looking boat and it does evoke all sorts of
rommantic images of genteel sailing on calm English ponds with the
swans paddling by. And if that is what excites you,then go for it!( I
know I sure did) However,when all hell is breaking loose and the
shore line is far away, I'll take a MICRO please :-)
Let us know which boat you chose to build!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan, entitled to his own experience based opinion and not
the slightest bit biased toward the MICRO.............yeah right!
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Zack Tiger <zackalicious@y...> wrote:
probably more of a demonstration on how NOT to build a Micro. I don't
mean to dowmplay the builders concerns, but he made it a way more
difficult than it has to be and I am not sure if he ever did get it
finished. I was curious to see how it comes out as to being close to
being on it's DWL.
One thing that is interesting is his experience when turning the
hull. He installed the keel with the boat inverted and had rods or
something in the ends so it was like it was on a spit. With several
friends he barely was able to hold it from turning too quickly. He
was amazed at the leverage of the weight of the keel.
I think this is something that many people tend to forget - and that
is the strength and effectivenss of that keel structure. In
comparison, Elver is an open unballested boat.
Also Bolger mentions that being on the Great Lakes is the same as
being by the ocean for all practical purposes and that includes Lake
Erie.
As mentioned previously - I have a set of Elver plans if anyone is
really interested.
Cheers, Nels
> Hi John. the Ole Windbag here again!Just an observation - but the third link mentioned above - is
> Have fun!
>http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/sites2.htm
>http://www.boatdesign.com/micro/
>http://www.pentode.demon.co.uk/bolger/index.htm
>http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/articles/oink2/index.htm
>
probably more of a demonstration on how NOT to build a Micro. I don't
mean to dowmplay the builders concerns, but he made it a way more
difficult than it has to be and I am not sure if he ever did get it
finished. I was curious to see how it comes out as to being close to
being on it's DWL.
One thing that is interesting is his experience when turning the
hull. He installed the keel with the boat inverted and had rods or
something in the ends so it was like it was on a spit. With several
friends he barely was able to hold it from turning too quickly. He
was amazed at the leverage of the weight of the keel.
I think this is something that many people tend to forget - and that
is the strength and effectivenss of that keel structure. In
comparison, Elver is an open unballested boat.
Also Bolger mentions that being on the Great Lakes is the same as
being by the ocean for all practical purposes and that includes Lake
Erie.
As mentioned previously - I have a set of Elver plans if anyone is
really interested.
Cheers, Nels
Hi John. the Ole Windbag here again!
I will be succinct here....
The Micro, from a novice builder point of view, would
in probability be better suited. the materials are
familiar, no special skill set is required, and it
isone VERY ruggedly built little boat. As Nels has
said, the covered cabin may bethe extra safety margin
you need if youare sailing on the Great Lakes, where
weather can change fast and dramatically. Also, you
have a advantage in that the Micro is design for a
well-mounted outboard. Just read the traffic in the
last few days re: motors in canoe-sterned boats.
Here are some excellent web sites and links about
Micros, and other PCB designs, some of which show the
whole construction process start to finish. Of
particular note are the Navigator modifications and
the stem changes, both of which would be very good to
have when it blows up bad. I think I will build a
Micro this summer,and I will incorporate theses mods.
Have fun!
http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/sites2.htm
http://www.boatdesign.com/micro/
http://www.pentode.demon.co.uk/bolger/index.htm
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/articles/oink2/index.htm
--- Nels <arvent@...> wrote:
__________________________________
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I will be succinct here....
The Micro, from a novice builder point of view, would
in probability be better suited. the materials are
familiar, no special skill set is required, and it
isone VERY ruggedly built little boat. As Nels has
said, the covered cabin may bethe extra safety margin
you need if youare sailing on the Great Lakes, where
weather can change fast and dramatically. Also, you
have a advantage in that the Micro is design for a
well-mounted outboard. Just read the traffic in the
last few days re: motors in canoe-sterned boats.
Here are some excellent web sites and links about
Micros, and other PCB designs, some of which show the
whole construction process start to finish. Of
particular note are the Navigator modifications and
the stem changes, both of which would be very good to
have when it blows up bad. I think I will build a
Micro this summer,and I will incorporate theses mods.
Have fun!
http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/sites2.htm
http://www.boatdesign.com/micro/
http://www.pentode.demon.co.uk/bolger/index.htm
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/articles/oink2/index.htm
--- Nels <arvent@...> wrote:
> Hi John,=== message truncated ===
>
> Are you aware that there is a website dedicated to
> Elver? Not trying
> to send you away but there is a lot of information
> there.
>
>http://www.sredmond.com/elver.htm
>
> And here is the description from that site:
>
> "Elver is a light weight 20 foot long open canoe
> yawl with a cuddy,
> designed for low cost and simplicity of
> construction. She is
> trailerable."
>
> The operative word here "open" describes the major
> difference between
> Elver and MICRO. Although both boats are designed
> mostly for
> sheltered waters, MICRO has a far larger range of
> capability - being
> able to recover from a knock down from 90 degrees or
> more without
> flooding. Not sure if this can be said for Elver as
> I am not aware
> that the cockpit is self-draining or it is fully
> self-righting if
> capsized. I know which one I would much rather be in
> if the weather
> got really bad.
>
> My first contact with Peter was to ask about Elver -
> as I have the
> plans. I ended up buying his MICRO instead:-)
>
> There is no doubt that Elver has a lot going for it
> if you are only
> interested in sailing in sheltered waters. And she
> looks gorgeous. If
> you want plans I have a set somewhere around here.
>
> The only permanant ballest is in the centerboard and
> one could add to
> the bottom plywood thickness to create more. Also
> there is no
> provision for a motor.
>
> Cheers, Nels
>
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John"
> <johnpaquette@h...> wrote:
> > Peter,
> >
> > Let me preface by saying I am a complete novice,
> and I am really
> just
> > day dreaming/obsessing about the Elver. It just
> looks beautiful to
> > me. I also see that you love your Micro. With that
> in mind, I have
> a
> > couple of questions about Steve Redmond's "Elver"
> vs Bolger's Micro.
> >
> > In you experience, How do you think the strip
> planked hull compares
> > to the Micro Ply hull with regards to durability,
> Rot resistance?
> > It looks time consuming for sure.
> >
> > More specifically with a boat that will live
> outdoors with some
> type
> > of a tarp garage shelter, do you think the plywood
> or the strip
> > planked will handle the freeze that cycle better.
> > Along that line, for the Elver, I am considering
> using Weldwood
> > Plastic Resin Glue between the planks with small
> nails(What type?).
> > I might then glass the exterior below the
> waterline. With the Elver
> I
> > guess I would try to find some pine 2 X 8's to rip
> as hardwood is
> not
> > recommended. What wood did you use?
> >
> > The Micro has 400 lbs of lead in the keel, what
> ballast does the
> > Elver have?
> > Would it be kind of crazy/unnecessary to put a
> heavier swing keel
> in
> > the Elver?
> >
> > Is the Elver all that much roomier inside for 2
> people?
> >
> > I gather from your comments you prefer to sail the
> Micro So I guess
> > it is your recommendation.
> >
> > I suspect the Micro it is easier on the budget,
> easier to trailer,
> > and easier to build.
> >
> > Thank you for all of your contributions.
> > John Paquette
> >
> >
> > >From: ellengaest@b...
> > >Date: Tue Jan 2, 2001 9:10 am
> > >Subject: Re: Great Lake Cruiser
> > >
> > >Bill Paxton,
> > >Many years ago(15?!)after having built a Bolger
> SURF,I found
> > >myself wanting to build another boat.At that
> time,there appeared
> > >within the pages of Small Boat Journal(R.I.P.) a
> nifty article
> about
> > a
> > >canoe-yawl named Elver.This Steve Redmond design
> had me all fired
> up
> > >and ready to build again between other
> projects.Very shortly after
> > >having purchased the Elver plans and ordering
> some lumber,there
> > >appeared this tiny ad for the Micro.Not knowing
> when to leave well
> > >enough alone,I ordered the study plans from Elrow
> Larowe.This was
> > >both a blessing and a curse for I at once became
> somewhat smitten
> > with the
> > >Micro while my resources were being invested
> elsewhere.
> > >Throughout the ensuing years of building and then
> sailing the
> > >Elver,my dreams were haunted by happy visions of
> the
> Micro.Finally,it
> > >happened.I awoke one night from the most vivid
> dream of actually
> > >sailing the Micro.Without having built her,I
> now"knew"exactly how
> she
> > >would feel underway and I was most pleased.Within
> a month,the plans
> > >were ordered,the plywood all purchased and the
> Elver put up for
> sale.
> > >The rest of the story is rather predictable;boy
> launches
> > >Micro,boy has summer of ecstasy,boy hauls boat at
> end of season,boy
> > >has winter of despair and fevered dreams,boy
> launches Micro again
> in
> > >spring,boy has summer of ecstasy.....
> > >I do recall seeing the Long Micro advertised
> during this time
> > >but for reasons that escape me now,she just never
> inspired me.The
> > >lines,curves and shape of the Micro all conspire
> to create the
> > >illusion of perfect balance and harmony.She can
> look forlorn as one
> > >leaves her at the end of the day at her quay,or
> as happy as a puppy
> > >when one arrives for a days sailing.When the wind
> and waves pipe up
> > >a bit,she appears as a pugnacious little pup
> defending her
> > >turf.Yet,within the crowded confines of a lock
> chamber,surrounded
> by
> > >distant cousins,she is proud and
> perky!However,give her a gentle
> > >breeze out of the southwest and she becomes a
> princess,gliding
> > >gracefully over sun dappled waves as she carries
> you to new
> > >adventures!
> > >Sorry about the long response to what
> shoulda,coulda been a yes
> > >or no reply but I am under the
> spell.......Besides,the psychology
> > >types might have a field day analyzing that last
> paragraph!!
> > >By the way,two weeks on a Micro with the right
> crew is a piece
> > >of cake and you usually end up taking off more
> then just your hat!
> > >
>
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Hello John.
Your letter raises a few questions and concerns that I
hope I can help with.
The two boats in question are, really, at opposite
ends of the spectrum of sailing craft. The Elver, a
canoe yawl, is very traditional in looks and
construction. A purist might insist she be carvel
planked, or even clinker planked, but strip planking
is really a form of carvel planking that does away
with spiling, edge bevelling, and all of the other
more difficult aspects of traditional boat building.
It is, without question, very easy on the eye, and it
looks........well, it just looks right. To me, the
Elver is the ideal boat for someone who places a high
priority on tradition, maritime heritage, and wants
that "classic" look.
The Micro, on the other hand, is an exercise in free
thinking and practicality where traditional form was
put aside, or made subservient to the design goals.
Yet, it is arguably aethetically pleasing, in a
form-follows-function kind of way.
If looks are more important, you may tend to lean
towards the Elver, but in order to be satisfied, you
have to examine the uses, frequency of use, number of
competent sailors, storage etc. to make a sound
decision.
I have built about 12 small craft, using stitch and
glue ply, strip planking, cold moulding as well as
more traditional methods, and all of them are good
methods, providing the builder uses only the best
quality materials available, and sound construction
techniques. Most of my boats have to winter outside in
the cold snowy Canadian weather, and proper storage is
crucial if you expect to have any kind of life for
your boat. It must be well covered to keep out snow
and prevent ice damage, yet must be well ventilated to
prevent moisture. Any deficiencies in your epoxy
layups and covering will eventually provide a failure
path.
In that regard, please do not consider using pine
planking! By pine, I assume you mean Northern White
Pine,and not Longleaf Yellow Pine(which is rare to the
point of unavailable around here). White pine does not
possess the tensile strength to withstand puncture
impacts unless the plank thickness is quite heavy, it
has poor rot resistance, and is only moderately good
at holding fasteners. If real clear close grained pine
is sought, it still is not much cheaper than better
boat building woods. If it were me, I would strip
plank in cedar. Buy the wood rough, dress and plane it
your self (good Christmas gift, that 15" planer!!) and
set up two routers to cut the bead and cove edging in
one pass. A single Saturday and several cold
refreshments, and you will have all the planking
material you need. I buy my Western Red Cedar from a
sawmill as rough dressed 5/4 stock and paneit to 3/4"
myself, for about half the cost of dressed lumber.
Sounds like a lotof wastage, but it takes a few 1/8"
passes justto get a true surface and remove saw kerf
marks.
Also,please no not use the Weldwood glue. It is a good
product, and cheaper than epoxy, but the cost expoy is
mostly in the wetting out and covering with glass. For
the small amount used in the planking seams, it just
isnt worth the compromise. Epoxy will also give you
more working time than the Weldwood, as once the
Weldwood "skins" bond strength suffers greatly.
I have heard of edge nailing the strips, but I find
that staples (or clamps in the case of "stapleless
construction" hold the planks well until the epoxy
sets. The only exceptions would be the head ends at
the stem and sternpost, the planks at the turn of the
bilge, and perhaps where the strips have to be really
tortured to take to the building form.
I have gone on long enough, but I would gently suggest
you give great thopughtto the uses to which you will
put your boat, make the decision that feels right,
then build her the best you can. Pennies saved at the
expense of safety, durabilty or longevityare false
economy.
Thanks, Shawn
--- John <johnpaquette@...> wrote:
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Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
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Your letter raises a few questions and concerns that I
hope I can help with.
The two boats in question are, really, at opposite
ends of the spectrum of sailing craft. The Elver, a
canoe yawl, is very traditional in looks and
construction. A purist might insist she be carvel
planked, or even clinker planked, but strip planking
is really a form of carvel planking that does away
with spiling, edge bevelling, and all of the other
more difficult aspects of traditional boat building.
It is, without question, very easy on the eye, and it
looks........well, it just looks right. To me, the
Elver is the ideal boat for someone who places a high
priority on tradition, maritime heritage, and wants
that "classic" look.
The Micro, on the other hand, is an exercise in free
thinking and practicality where traditional form was
put aside, or made subservient to the design goals.
Yet, it is arguably aethetically pleasing, in a
form-follows-function kind of way.
If looks are more important, you may tend to lean
towards the Elver, but in order to be satisfied, you
have to examine the uses, frequency of use, number of
competent sailors, storage etc. to make a sound
decision.
I have built about 12 small craft, using stitch and
glue ply, strip planking, cold moulding as well as
more traditional methods, and all of them are good
methods, providing the builder uses only the best
quality materials available, and sound construction
techniques. Most of my boats have to winter outside in
the cold snowy Canadian weather, and proper storage is
crucial if you expect to have any kind of life for
your boat. It must be well covered to keep out snow
and prevent ice damage, yet must be well ventilated to
prevent moisture. Any deficiencies in your epoxy
layups and covering will eventually provide a failure
path.
In that regard, please do not consider using pine
planking! By pine, I assume you mean Northern White
Pine,and not Longleaf Yellow Pine(which is rare to the
point of unavailable around here). White pine does not
possess the tensile strength to withstand puncture
impacts unless the plank thickness is quite heavy, it
has poor rot resistance, and is only moderately good
at holding fasteners. If real clear close grained pine
is sought, it still is not much cheaper than better
boat building woods. If it were me, I would strip
plank in cedar. Buy the wood rough, dress and plane it
your self (good Christmas gift, that 15" planer!!) and
set up two routers to cut the bead and cove edging in
one pass. A single Saturday and several cold
refreshments, and you will have all the planking
material you need. I buy my Western Red Cedar from a
sawmill as rough dressed 5/4 stock and paneit to 3/4"
myself, for about half the cost of dressed lumber.
Sounds like a lotof wastage, but it takes a few 1/8"
passes justto get a true surface and remove saw kerf
marks.
Also,please no not use the Weldwood glue. It is a good
product, and cheaper than epoxy, but the cost expoy is
mostly in the wetting out and covering with glass. For
the small amount used in the planking seams, it just
isnt worth the compromise. Epoxy will also give you
more working time than the Weldwood, as once the
Weldwood "skins" bond strength suffers greatly.
I have heard of edge nailing the strips, but I find
that staples (or clamps in the case of "stapleless
construction" hold the planks well until the epoxy
sets. The only exceptions would be the head ends at
the stem and sternpost, the planks at the turn of the
bilge, and perhaps where the strips have to be really
tortured to take to the building form.
I have gone on long enough, but I would gently suggest
you give great thopughtto the uses to which you will
put your boat, make the decision that feels right,
then build her the best you can. Pennies saved at the
expense of safety, durabilty or longevityare false
economy.
Thanks, Shawn
--- John <johnpaquette@...> wrote:
> Peter,__________________________________
>
> Let me preface by saying I am a complete novice, and
> I am really just
> day dreaming/obsessing about the Elver. It just
> looks beautiful to
> me. I also see that you love your Micro. With that
> in mind, I have a
> couple of questions about Steve Redmond's "Elver" vs
> Bolger's Micro.
>
> In you experience, How do you think the strip
> planked hull compares
> to the Micro Ply hull with regards to durability,
> Rot resistance?
> It looks time consuming for sure.
>
> More specifically with a boat that will live
> outdoors with some type
> of a tarp garage shelter, do you think the plywood
> or the strip
> planked will handle the freeze that cycle better.
> Along that line, for the Elver, I am considering
> using Weldwood
> Plastic Resin Glue between the planks with small
> nails(What type?).
> I might then glass the exterior below the waterline.
> With the Elver I
> guess I would try to find some pine 2 X 8's to rip
> as hardwood is not
> recommended. What wood did you use?
>
> The Micro has 400 lbs of lead in the keel, what
> ballast does the
> Elver have?
> Would it be kind of crazy/unnecessary to put a
> heavier swing keel in
> the Elver?
>
> Is the Elver all that much roomier inside for 2
> people?
>
> I gather from your comments you prefer to sail the
> Micro So I guess
> it is your recommendation.
>
> I suspect the Micro it is easier on the budget,
> easier to trailer,
> and easier to build.
>
> Thank you for all of your contributions.
> John Paquette
>
>
> >From: ellengaest@b...
> >Date: Tue Jan 2, 2001 9:10 am
> >Subject: Re: Great Lake Cruiser
> >
> >Bill Paxton,
> >Many years ago(15?!)after having built a Bolger
> SURF,I found
> >myself wanting to build another boat.At that
> time,there appeared
> >within the pages of Small Boat Journal(R.I.P.) a
> nifty article about
> a
> >canoe-yawl named Elver.This Steve Redmond design
> had me all fired up
> >and ready to build again between other
> projects.Very shortly after
> >having purchased the Elver plans and ordering some
> lumber,there
> >appeared this tiny ad for the Micro.Not knowing
> when to leave well
> >enough alone,I ordered the study plans from Elrow
> Larowe.This was
> >both a blessing and a curse for I at once became
> somewhat smitten
> with the
> >Micro while my resources were being invested
> elsewhere.
> >Throughout the ensuing years of building and then
> sailing the
> >Elver,my dreams were haunted by happy visions of
> the Micro.Finally,it
> >happened.I awoke one night from the most vivid
> dream of actually
> >sailing the Micro.Without having built her,I
> now"knew"exactly how she
> >would feel underway and I was most pleased.Within a
> month,the plans
> >were ordered,the plywood all purchased and the
> Elver put up for sale.
> >The rest of the story is rather predictable;boy
> launches
> >Micro,boy has summer of ecstasy,boy hauls boat at
> end of season,boy
> >has winter of despair and fevered dreams,boy
> launches Micro again in
> >spring,boy has summer of ecstasy.....
> >I do recall seeing the Long Micro advertised during
> this time
> >but for reasons that escape me now,she just never
> inspired me.The
> >lines,curves and shape of the Micro all conspire to
> create the
> >illusion of perfect balance and harmony.She can
> look forlorn as one
> >leaves her at the end of the day at her quay,or as
> happy as a puppy
> >when one arrives for a days sailing.When the wind
> and waves pipe up
> >a bit,she appears as a pugnacious little pup
> defending her
> >turf.Yet,within the crowded confines of a lock
> chamber,surrounded by
> >distant cousins,she is proud and perky!However,give
> her a gentle
> >breeze out of the southwest and she becomes a
> princess,gliding
> >gracefully over sun dappled waves as she carries
> you to new
> >adventures!
> >Sorry about the long response to what
> shoulda,coulda been a yes
> >or no reply but I am under the
> spell.......Besides,the psychology
> >types might have a field day analyzing that last
> paragraph!!
> >By the way,two weeks on a Micro with the right crew
> is a piece
> >of cake and you usually end up taking off more then
> just your hat!
> >
> >Sincerely,
> >Peter Lenihan,straining away to fight off the fever
> while gaining
> >about a pound per day due to some awfully fine
> home-cooking from the
> >shore bound crew,on the banks of the frozen
> St.Lawrence........
>
>
>
Do you Yahoo!?
Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
http://companion.yahoo.com/
If you are considering the Micro and Elver, you might also look at
John Welsford's Tread Lightly. It's a little smaller than Micro, but
I understand that a somewhat larger version is in the planning stages
and should be a completed design in six months or so.
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/store/plans/jw/treadlightly/index.htm
Peter
John Welsford's Tread Lightly. It's a little smaller than Micro, but
I understand that a somewhat larger version is in the planning stages
and should be a completed design in six months or so.
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/store/plans/jw/treadlightly/index.htm
Peter
Hi John,
Are you aware that there is a website dedicated to Elver? Not trying
to send you away but there is a lot of information there.
http://www.sredmond.com/elver.htm
And here is the description from that site:
"Elver is a light weight 20 foot long open canoe yawl with a cuddy,
designed for low cost and simplicity of construction. She is
trailerable."
The operative word here "open" describes the major difference between
Elver and MICRO. Although both boats are designed mostly for
sheltered waters, MICRO has a far larger range of capability - being
able to recover from a knock down from 90 degrees or more without
flooding. Not sure if this can be said for Elver as I am not aware
that the cockpit is self-draining or it is fully self-righting if
capsized. I know which one I would much rather be in if the weather
got really bad.
My first contact with Peter was to ask about Elver - as I have the
plans. I ended up buying his MICRO instead:-)
There is no doubt that Elver has a lot going for it if you are only
interested in sailing in sheltered waters. And she looks gorgeous. If
you want plans I have a set somewhere around here.
The only permanant ballest is in the centerboard and one could add to
the bottom plywood thickness to create more. Also there is no
provision for a motor.
Cheers, Nels
Are you aware that there is a website dedicated to Elver? Not trying
to send you away but there is a lot of information there.
http://www.sredmond.com/elver.htm
And here is the description from that site:
"Elver is a light weight 20 foot long open canoe yawl with a cuddy,
designed for low cost and simplicity of construction. She is
trailerable."
The operative word here "open" describes the major difference between
Elver and MICRO. Although both boats are designed mostly for
sheltered waters, MICRO has a far larger range of capability - being
able to recover from a knock down from 90 degrees or more without
flooding. Not sure if this can be said for Elver as I am not aware
that the cockpit is self-draining or it is fully self-righting if
capsized. I know which one I would much rather be in if the weather
got really bad.
My first contact with Peter was to ask about Elver - as I have the
plans. I ended up buying his MICRO instead:-)
There is no doubt that Elver has a lot going for it if you are only
interested in sailing in sheltered waters. And she looks gorgeous. If
you want plans I have a set somewhere around here.
The only permanant ballest is in the centerboard and one could add to
the bottom plywood thickness to create more. Also there is no
provision for a motor.
Cheers, Nels
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John" <johnpaquette@h...> wrote:
> Peter,
>
> Let me preface by saying I am a complete novice, and I am really
just
> day dreaming/obsessing about the Elver. It just looks beautiful to
> me. I also see that you love your Micro. With that in mind, I have
a
> couple of questions about Steve Redmond's "Elver" vs Bolger's Micro.
>
> In you experience, How do you think the strip planked hull compares
> to the Micro Ply hull with regards to durability, Rot resistance?
> It looks time consuming for sure.
>
> More specifically with a boat that will live outdoors with some
type
> of a tarp garage shelter, do you think the plywood or the strip
> planked will handle the freeze that cycle better.
> Along that line, for the Elver, I am considering using Weldwood
> Plastic Resin Glue between the planks with small nails(What type?).
> I might then glass the exterior below the waterline. With the Elver
I
> guess I would try to find some pine 2 X 8's to rip as hardwood is
not
> recommended. What wood did you use?
>
> The Micro has 400 lbs of lead in the keel, what ballast does the
> Elver have?
> Would it be kind of crazy/unnecessary to put a heavier swing keel
in
> the Elver?
>
> Is the Elver all that much roomier inside for 2 people?
>
> I gather from your comments you prefer to sail the Micro So I guess
> it is your recommendation.
>
> I suspect the Micro it is easier on the budget, easier to trailer,
> and easier to build.
>
> Thank you for all of your contributions.
> John Paquette
>
>
> >From: ellengaest@b...
> >Date: Tue Jan 2, 2001 9:10 am
> >Subject: Re: Great Lake Cruiser
> >
> >Bill Paxton,
> >Many years ago(15?!)after having built a Bolger SURF,I found
> >myself wanting to build another boat.At that time,there appeared
> >within the pages of Small Boat Journal(R.I.P.) a nifty article
about
> a
> >canoe-yawl named Elver.This Steve Redmond design had me all fired
up
> >and ready to build again between other projects.Very shortly after
> >having purchased the Elver plans and ordering some lumber,there
> >appeared this tiny ad for the Micro.Not knowing when to leave well
> >enough alone,I ordered the study plans from Elrow Larowe.This was
> >both a blessing and a curse for I at once became somewhat smitten
> with the
> >Micro while my resources were being invested elsewhere.
> >Throughout the ensuing years of building and then sailing the
> >Elver,my dreams were haunted by happy visions of the
Micro.Finally,it
> >happened.I awoke one night from the most vivid dream of actually
> >sailing the Micro.Without having built her,I now"knew"exactly how
she
> >would feel underway and I was most pleased.Within a month,the plans
> >were ordered,the plywood all purchased and the Elver put up for
sale.
> >The rest of the story is rather predictable;boy launches
> >Micro,boy has summer of ecstasy,boy hauls boat at end of season,boy
> >has winter of despair and fevered dreams,boy launches Micro again
in
> >spring,boy has summer of ecstasy.....
> >I do recall seeing the Long Micro advertised during this time
> >but for reasons that escape me now,she just never inspired me.The
> >lines,curves and shape of the Micro all conspire to create the
> >illusion of perfect balance and harmony.She can look forlorn as one
> >leaves her at the end of the day at her quay,or as happy as a puppy
> >when one arrives for a days sailing.When the wind and waves pipe up
> >a bit,she appears as a pugnacious little pup defending her
> >turf.Yet,within the crowded confines of a lock chamber,surrounded
by
> >distant cousins,she is proud and perky!However,give her a gentle
> >breeze out of the southwest and she becomes a princess,gliding
> >gracefully over sun dappled waves as she carries you to new
> >adventures!
> >Sorry about the long response to what shoulda,coulda been a yes
> >or no reply but I am under the spell.......Besides,the psychology
> >types might have a field day analyzing that last paragraph!!
> >By the way,two weeks on a Micro with the right crew is a piece
> >of cake and you usually end up taking off more then just your hat!
> >
> >Sincerely,
> >Peter Lenihan,straining away to fight off the fever while gaining
> >about a pound per day due to some awfully fine home-cooking from
the
> >shore bound crew,on the banks of the frozen St.Lawrence........
Peter,
Let me preface by saying I am a complete novice, and I am really just
day dreaming/obsessing about the Elver. It just looks beautiful to
me. I also see that you love your Micro. With that in mind, I have a
couple of questions about Steve Redmond's "Elver" vs Bolger's Micro.
In you experience, How do you think the strip planked hull compares
to the Micro Ply hull with regards to durability, Rot resistance?
It looks time consuming for sure.
More specifically with a boat that will live outdoors with some type
of a tarp garage shelter, do you think the plywood or the strip
planked will handle the freeze that cycle better.
Along that line, for the Elver, I am considering using Weldwood
Plastic Resin Glue between the planks with small nails(What type?).
I might then glass the exterior below the waterline. With the Elver I
guess I would try to find some pine 2 X 8's to rip as hardwood is not
recommended. What wood did you use?
The Micro has 400 lbs of lead in the keel, what ballast does the
Elver have?
Would it be kind of crazy/unnecessary to put a heavier swing keel in
the Elver?
Is the Elver all that much roomier inside for 2 people?
I gather from your comments you prefer to sail the Micro So I guess
it is your recommendation.
I suspect the Micro it is easier on the budget, easier to trailer,
and easier to build.
Thank you for all of your contributions.
John Paquette
Let me preface by saying I am a complete novice, and I am really just
day dreaming/obsessing about the Elver. It just looks beautiful to
me. I also see that you love your Micro. With that in mind, I have a
couple of questions about Steve Redmond's "Elver" vs Bolger's Micro.
In you experience, How do you think the strip planked hull compares
to the Micro Ply hull with regards to durability, Rot resistance?
It looks time consuming for sure.
More specifically with a boat that will live outdoors with some type
of a tarp garage shelter, do you think the plywood or the strip
planked will handle the freeze that cycle better.
Along that line, for the Elver, I am considering using Weldwood
Plastic Resin Glue between the planks with small nails(What type?).
I might then glass the exterior below the waterline. With the Elver I
guess I would try to find some pine 2 X 8's to rip as hardwood is not
recommended. What wood did you use?
The Micro has 400 lbs of lead in the keel, what ballast does the
Elver have?
Would it be kind of crazy/unnecessary to put a heavier swing keel in
the Elver?
Is the Elver all that much roomier inside for 2 people?
I gather from your comments you prefer to sail the Micro So I guess
it is your recommendation.
I suspect the Micro it is easier on the budget, easier to trailer,
and easier to build.
Thank you for all of your contributions.
John Paquette
>From: ellengaest@b...a
>Date: Tue Jan 2, 2001 9:10 am
>Subject: Re: Great Lake Cruiser
>
>Bill Paxton,
>Many years ago(15?!)after having built a Bolger SURF,I found
>myself wanting to build another boat.At that time,there appeared
>within the pages of Small Boat Journal(R.I.P.) a nifty article about
>canoe-yawl named Elver.This Steve Redmond design had me all fired upwith the
>and ready to build again between other projects.Very shortly after
>having purchased the Elver plans and ordering some lumber,there
>appeared this tiny ad for the Micro.Not knowing when to leave well
>enough alone,I ordered the study plans from Elrow Larowe.This was
>both a blessing and a curse for I at once became somewhat smitten
>Micro while my resources were being invested elsewhere.
>Throughout the ensuing years of building and then sailing the
>Elver,my dreams were haunted by happy visions of the Micro.Finally,it
>happened.I awoke one night from the most vivid dream of actually
>sailing the Micro.Without having built her,I now"knew"exactly how she
>would feel underway and I was most pleased.Within a month,the plans
>were ordered,the plywood all purchased and the Elver put up for sale.
>The rest of the story is rather predictable;boy launches
>Micro,boy has summer of ecstasy,boy hauls boat at end of season,boy
>has winter of despair and fevered dreams,boy launches Micro again in
>spring,boy has summer of ecstasy.....
>I do recall seeing the Long Micro advertised during this time
>but for reasons that escape me now,she just never inspired me.The
>lines,curves and shape of the Micro all conspire to create the
>illusion of perfect balance and harmony.She can look forlorn as one
>leaves her at the end of the day at her quay,or as happy as a puppy
>when one arrives for a days sailing.When the wind and waves pipe up
>a bit,she appears as a pugnacious little pup defending her
>turf.Yet,within the crowded confines of a lock chamber,surrounded by
>distant cousins,she is proud and perky!However,give her a gentle
>breeze out of the southwest and she becomes a princess,gliding
>gracefully over sun dappled waves as she carries you to new
>adventures!
>Sorry about the long response to what shoulda,coulda been a yes
>or no reply but I am under the spell.......Besides,the psychology
>types might have a field day analyzing that last paragraph!!
>By the way,two weeks on a Micro with the right crew is a piece
>of cake and you usually end up taking off more then just your hat!
>
>Sincerely,
>Peter Lenihan,straining away to fight off the fever while gaining
>about a pound per day due to some awfully fine home-cooking from the
>shore bound crew,on the banks of the frozen St.Lawrence........
Jim C.,
I second the nomination!
ever I show
one of his postings to my wife Pat, she always wants me to ask him, what
books he has written , and has he been published? Poet Laureate, it is!
Hi, My name is Stan, and I am a Microholic. "Hi Stan"...... Oh no, it's
all those little voices again. ;-)
Stan, where the temp. is all the way up to 36 F. so it is time to go out
and work on the old Snow Goose.
I second the nomination!
> ok, Peter, if you won't accept the monarchy, how about Poet Laureate?Peter certainly is the most articulate Micro- maniac amongst us. When
> Jim C
ever I show
one of his postings to my wife Pat, she always wants me to ask him, what
books he has written , and has he been published? Poet Laureate, it is!
Hi, My name is Stan, and I am a Microholic. "Hi Stan"...... Oh no, it's
all those little voices again. ;-)
Stan, where the temp. is all the way up to 36 F. so it is time to go out
and work on the old Snow Goose.
ok, Peter, if you won't accept the monarchy, how about Poet Laureate?
Jim C
Jim C
> -----Original Message-----
> From:ellengaest@...[mailto:ellengaest@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 11:18 PM
> To:bolger@egroups.com
> Subject: [bolger] Re: Great Lake Cruiser
>
>
> Dear Stan,
> It is with heavy heart and swollen head that I must demur from
> your kind and generous nomination,prefering instead the role of court
> jester and official food and wine taster.The first,being for
> entertainment purposes,is most fitting since our boats are really big
> toys that allow us some serious play-time in this all too serious
> world and the second,well.....a well fed sailor is a happy sailor and
> a really good meal deserves to be caressed and carried ever so gently
> down through the alimentary canal on the driest,earthiest red wine
> available!At least that is how I enjoy my meals,except perhaps
> breakfast,most of the time.
> I think Chuck Merrell hit it right on the head when he wrote
> that the Micro was the boat for 99% of the people....or was it 99% of
> the people for the boat...(my this IS good wine!)...no,most people
> younger 99 prefer the Micro...(Waiter!)...whatever,he was/is quite
> correct in his observation.
> Too bad I do not live in a more centrally located area where the
> water never freezes.Then I could use my Micro to offer sailboat rides
> to all our undecided Bolgerites and other wayward members of the
> flock so that they too may experience and know what true bliss is all
> about!If the sailing doesn't get'em the wine sure will!!!!
> Sincerely,
> Peter Lenihan,wondering how it is possible to gain a pound a day
> throughout the holidays yet damned near impossible to lose it at the
> same rate,marinating his dental fillings in some mighty fine
> Port,here on the banks of the St.Lawrence.........
>
>
> --- Inbolger@egroups.com, Stan Muller <smuller@i...> wrote:
> > Hi All,
> > It has been my suspicion, right along, that us Micro
> builders/owners
> > were, lets for the sake of diplomacy say, different. (read a little
> > nuts) We don't just march to a different drummer, we have a whole
> brass
> > band going on. As well as, all those little voices in our heads that
> > keep saying MICRO, Micro, micro, microooo.....
> > We are to say the least, dedicated to our dreams. Having read
> Peter's
> > posting, and on the behalf of the Micro infected among us, I hereby
> > nominate, Peter Lenihan, as KING of the Micro people. ;-)
> > Stan, Snow Goose
> >
> > PS; I didn't want to write this, but the Snow Goose made me do it.
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> - no flogging dead horses
> - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> - stay on topic and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
>
>
Dear Stan,
It is with heavy heart and swollen head that I must demur from
your kind and generous nomination,prefering instead the role of court
jester and official food and wine taster.The first,being for
entertainment purposes,is most fitting since our boats are really big
toys that allow us some serious play-time in this all too serious
world and the second,well.....a well fed sailor is a happy sailor and
a really good meal deserves to be caressed and carried ever so gently
down through the alimentary canal on the driest,earthiest red wine
available!At least that is how I enjoy my meals,except perhaps
breakfast,most of the time.
I think Chuck Merrell hit it right on the head when he wrote
that the Micro was the boat for 99% of the people....or was it 99% of
the people for the boat...(my this IS good wine!)...no,most people
younger 99 prefer the Micro...(Waiter!)...whatever,he was/is quite
correct in his observation.
Too bad I do not live in a more centrally located area where the
water never freezes.Then I could use my Micro to offer sailboat rides
to all our undecided Bolgerites and other wayward members of the
flock so that they too may experience and know what true bliss is all
about!If the sailing doesn't get'em the wine sure will!!!!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,wondering how it is possible to gain a pound a day
throughout the holidays yet damned near impossible to lose it at the
same rate,marinating his dental fillings in some mighty fine
Port,here on the banks of the St.Lawrence.........
It is with heavy heart and swollen head that I must demur from
your kind and generous nomination,prefering instead the role of court
jester and official food and wine taster.The first,being for
entertainment purposes,is most fitting since our boats are really big
toys that allow us some serious play-time in this all too serious
world and the second,well.....a well fed sailor is a happy sailor and
a really good meal deserves to be caressed and carried ever so gently
down through the alimentary canal on the driest,earthiest red wine
available!At least that is how I enjoy my meals,except perhaps
breakfast,most of the time.
I think Chuck Merrell hit it right on the head when he wrote
that the Micro was the boat for 99% of the people....or was it 99% of
the people for the boat...(my this IS good wine!)...no,most people
younger 99 prefer the Micro...(Waiter!)...whatever,he was/is quite
correct in his observation.
Too bad I do not live in a more centrally located area where the
water never freezes.Then I could use my Micro to offer sailboat rides
to all our undecided Bolgerites and other wayward members of the
flock so that they too may experience and know what true bliss is all
about!If the sailing doesn't get'em the wine sure will!!!!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,wondering how it is possible to gain a pound a day
throughout the holidays yet damned near impossible to lose it at the
same rate,marinating his dental fillings in some mighty fine
Port,here on the banks of the St.Lawrence.........
--- Inbolger@egroups.com, Stan Muller <smuller@i...> wrote:
> Hi All,
> It has been my suspicion, right along, that us Micro
builders/owners
> were, lets for the sake of diplomacy say, different. (read a little
> nuts) We don't just march to a different drummer, we have a whole
brass
> band going on. As well as, all those little voices in our heads that
> keep saying MICRO, Micro, micro, microooo.....
> We are to say the least, dedicated to our dreams. Having read
Peter's
> posting, and on the behalf of the Micro infected among us, I hereby
> nominate, Peter Lenihan, as KING of the Micro people. ;-)
> Stan, Snow Goose
>
> PS; I didn't want to write this, but the Snow Goose made me do it.
Hi All,
It has been my suspicion, right along, that us Micro builders/owners
were, lets for the sake of diplomacy say, different. (read a little
nuts) We don't just march to a different drummer, we have a whole brass
band going on. As well as, all those little voices in our heads that
keep saying MICRO, Micro, micro, microooo.....
We are to say the least, dedicated to our dreams. Having read Peter's
posting, and on the behalf of the Micro infected among us, I hereby
nominate, Peter Lenihan, as KING of the Micro people. ;-)
Stan, Snow Goose
PS; I didn't want to write this, but the Snow Goose made me do it.
It has been my suspicion, right along, that us Micro builders/owners
were, lets for the sake of diplomacy say, different. (read a little
nuts) We don't just march to a different drummer, we have a whole brass
band going on. As well as, all those little voices in our heads that
keep saying MICRO, Micro, micro, microooo.....
We are to say the least, dedicated to our dreams. Having read Peter's
posting, and on the behalf of the Micro infected among us, I hereby
nominate, Peter Lenihan, as KING of the Micro people. ;-)
Stan, Snow Goose
PS; I didn't want to write this, but the Snow Goose made me do it.
Bill Paxton,
Many years ago(15?!)after having built a Bolger SURF,I found
myself wanting to build another boat.At that time,there appeared
within the pages of Small Boat Journal(R.I.P.) a nifty article about
a
canoe-yawl named Elver.This Steve Redmond design had me all fired up
and ready to build again between other projects.Very shortly after
having purchased the Elver plans and ordering some lumber,there
appeared this tiny ad for the Micro.Not knowing when to leave well
enough alone,I ordered the study plans from Elrow Larowe.This was
both
a blessing and a curse for I at once became somewhat smitten with the
Micro while my resources were being invested elsewhere.
Throughout the ensuing years of building and then sailing the
Elver,my dreams were haunted by happy visions of the Micro.Finally,it
happened.I awoke one night from the most vivid dream of actually
sailing the Micro.Without having built her,I now"knew"exactly how she
would feel underway and I was most pleased.Within a month,the plans
were ordered,the plywood all purchased and the Elver put up for sale.
The rest of the story is rather predictable;boy launches
Micro,boy has summer of ecstasy,boy hauls boat at end of season,boy
has winter of despair and fevered dreams,boy launches Micro again in
spring,boy has summer of ecstasy.....
I do recall seeing the Long Micro advertised during this time
but for reasons that escape me now,she just never inspired me.The
lines,curves and shape of the Micro all conspire to create the
illusion of perfect balance and harmony.She can look forlorn as one
leaves her at the end of the day at her quay,or as happy as a puppy
when one arrives for a days sailing.When the wind and waves pipe up
a bit,she appears as a pugnacious little pup defending her
turf.Yet,within the crowded confines of a lock chamber,surrounded by
distant cousins,she is proud and perky!However,give her a gentle
breeze out of the southwest and she becomes a princess,gliding
gracefully over sun dappled waves as she carries you to new
adventures!
Sorry about the long response to what shoulda,coulda been a
yes
or no reply but I am under the spell.......Besides,the psychology
types might have a field day analyzing that last paragraph!!
By the way,two weeks on a Micro with the right crew is a piece
of cake and you usually end up taking off more then just your hat!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,straining away to fight off the fever while gaining
about a pound per day due to some awfully fine home-cooking from the
shore bound crew,on the banks of the frozen St.Lawrence........
e.ger@egroups.com, bill@p... wrote:
Many years ago(15?!)after having built a Bolger SURF,I found
myself wanting to build another boat.At that time,there appeared
within the pages of Small Boat Journal(R.I.P.) a nifty article about
a
canoe-yawl named Elver.This Steve Redmond design had me all fired up
and ready to build again between other projects.Very shortly after
having purchased the Elver plans and ordering some lumber,there
appeared this tiny ad for the Micro.Not knowing when to leave well
enough alone,I ordered the study plans from Elrow Larowe.This was
both
a blessing and a curse for I at once became somewhat smitten with the
Micro while my resources were being invested elsewhere.
Throughout the ensuing years of building and then sailing the
Elver,my dreams were haunted by happy visions of the Micro.Finally,it
happened.I awoke one night from the most vivid dream of actually
sailing the Micro.Without having built her,I now"knew"exactly how she
would feel underway and I was most pleased.Within a month,the plans
were ordered,the plywood all purchased and the Elver put up for sale.
The rest of the story is rather predictable;boy launches
Micro,boy has summer of ecstasy,boy hauls boat at end of season,boy
has winter of despair and fevered dreams,boy launches Micro again in
spring,boy has summer of ecstasy.....
I do recall seeing the Long Micro advertised during this time
but for reasons that escape me now,she just never inspired me.The
lines,curves and shape of the Micro all conspire to create the
illusion of perfect balance and harmony.She can look forlorn as one
leaves her at the end of the day at her quay,or as happy as a puppy
when one arrives for a days sailing.When the wind and waves pipe up
a bit,she appears as a pugnacious little pup defending her
turf.Yet,within the crowded confines of a lock chamber,surrounded by
distant cousins,she is proud and perky!However,give her a gentle
breeze out of the southwest and she becomes a princess,gliding
gracefully over sun dappled waves as she carries you to new
adventures!
Sorry about the long response to what shoulda,coulda been a
yes
or no reply but I am under the spell.......Besides,the psychology
types might have a field day analyzing that last paragraph!!
By the way,two weeks on a Micro with the right crew is a piece
of cake and you usually end up taking off more then just your hat!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,straining away to fight off the fever while gaining
about a pound per day due to some awfully fine home-cooking from the
shore bound crew,on the banks of the frozen St.Lawrence........
e.ger@egroups.com, bill@p... wrote:
> Peter,is
>
> Thanks for the Micro endorsement. Two weeks on a Micro?! My hat
> off to you.mean
>
> Did you ever wish you had built the Long Micro?
>
> Bill Paxton
> Frozen in the ice of Minnesota's Twin Cities.
>
> --- Inbolger@egroups.com, ellengaest@b... wrote:
> > Bill Paxton,
> > In a word and with barely constrained enthusiasm,I would
> > recommend the MICRO.
> > Virtually any boat that is built well can cruise the Great
> > Lakes.It all depends on the operational definition of what you
> > by"cruise".For some,nothing short of the Q.E. II will do whilefor
> > others a canoe with camping gear is the ultimatetrip.Furthermore,I
> > believe safety is more a function of crew ability/experience thenexperience
> any
> > particular aspect of a boat.As you stated,the Great Lakes can be
> > extremely rough and its' history is peppered with all sorts of
> > maritime disasters both large and small.
> > As your query appears to suggest that your cruising may be
> > undertaken alone,the MICRO has ample room for you and your gear.I
> > have gone two weeks,two people in my MICRO and found the
> > most enjoyable.Mind you,crew selection was crucial to this statedplywood
> > enjoyment!
> > Finally,as you have already completed a similarly sized
> > boat,the MICRO may provide enough of a building challenge to keeptaxing
> it
> > interesting for you without being too daunting a project and
> > your resources.Do not be fooled by the fact that she is thecutest
> > little"Bolger Box" around....she is nevertheless a real sailingdips
> > machine!!!!!
> > Sincerely,
> > Peter Lenihan,listening to the snow squeek as the thermometer
> > bellow -21 Celsius and the winds of 33 kms/hr give a toasty chillthe
> > factor of -44 Celsius which is awefully nice for my friends to
> > south of me since it is virtually the same in Fahrenheit,on thethat
> > steamy banks of the St.Lawrence......
> >
> >
> >
> > --- Inbolger@egroups.com, bill@p... wrote:
> > > I need some advice, folks. I'd like to build a Bolger boat
> > willWeekender
> > > allow me to safely cruise the Great Lakes. (If you're not
> familiar
> > > with the Great Lakes, they can be as rough as the ocean.) I'm
> > > looking for something that's trailerable, self-righting, self-
> > > bailing, and can be singlehanded if need be.
> > >
> > > My carpentry skills are basic. I'm just finishing up a
> > by
> > > Stevenson Projects.
> > >
> > > What would you recommend?
> > >
> > > Bill Paxton
Peter,
Thanks for the Micro endorsement. Two weeks on a Micro?! My hat is
off to you.
Did you ever wish you had built the Long Micro?
Bill Paxton
Frozen in the ice of Minnesota's Twin Cities.
Thanks for the Micro endorsement. Two weeks on a Micro?! My hat is
off to you.
Did you ever wish you had built the Long Micro?
Bill Paxton
Frozen in the ice of Minnesota's Twin Cities.
--- Inbolger@egroups.com, ellengaest@b... wrote:
> Bill Paxton,
> In a word and with barely constrained enthusiasm,I would
> recommend the MICRO.
> Virtually any boat that is built well can cruise the Great
> Lakes.It all depends on the operational definition of what you mean
> by"cruise".For some,nothing short of the Q.E. II will do while for
> others a canoe with camping gear is the ultimate trip.Furthermore,I
> believe safety is more a function of crew ability/experience then
any
> particular aspect of a boat.As you stated,the Great Lakes can be
> extremely rough and its' history is peppered with all sorts of
> maritime disasters both large and small.
> As your query appears to suggest that your cruising may be
> undertaken alone,the MICRO has ample room for you and your gear.I
> have gone two weeks,two people in my MICRO and found the experience
> most enjoyable.Mind you,crew selection was crucial to this stated
> enjoyment!
> Finally,as you have already completed a similarly sized plywood
> boat,the MICRO may provide enough of a building challenge to keep
it
> interesting for you without being too daunting a project and taxing
> your resources.Do not be fooled by the fact that she is the cutest
> little"Bolger Box" around....she is nevertheless a real sailing
> machine!!!!!
> Sincerely,
> Peter Lenihan,listening to the snow squeek as the thermometer dips
> bellow -21 Celsius and the winds of 33 kms/hr give a toasty chill
> factor of -44 Celsius which is awefully nice for my friends to the
> south of me since it is virtually the same in Fahrenheit,on the
> steamy banks of the St.Lawrence......
>
>
>
> --- Inbolger@egroups.com, bill@p... wrote:
> > I need some advice, folks. I'd like to build a Bolger boat that
> will
> > allow me to safely cruise the Great Lakes. (If you're not
familiar
> > with the Great Lakes, they can be as rough as the ocean.) I'm
> > looking for something that's trailerable, self-righting, self-
> > bailing, and can be singlehanded if need be.
> >
> > My carpentry skills are basic. I'm just finishing up a Weekender
> by
> > Stevenson Projects.
> >
> > What would you recommend?
> >
> > Bill Paxton
Hi, Bill,
Reading your podt on Great Lakes cruising is like a copy of my
posting a few weeks ago. Perhaps we can compare notes and work
together to some extent. I'm in Atalnta, Mi. about 35 miles of
Alpena and the Thunder Bay. I'm planning to start a G.L. cruiser
either late next year or the following year. After I finish the
boats I have started, along with a list of honey-do's.-
My email is listed if you wish to contact me off-list.
Good luck with your project. I'll get back to you when I return home
later this week.
Claude.
-- Inbolger@egroups.com, bill@p... wrote:
Reading your podt on Great Lakes cruising is like a copy of my
posting a few weeks ago. Perhaps we can compare notes and work
together to some extent. I'm in Atalnta, Mi. about 35 miles of
Alpena and the Thunder Bay. I'm planning to start a G.L. cruiser
either late next year or the following year. After I finish the
boats I have started, along with a list of honey-do's.-
My email is listed if you wish to contact me off-list.
Good luck with your project. I'll get back to you when I return home
later this week.
Claude.
-- Inbolger@egroups.com, bill@p... wrote:
> I need some advice, folks. I'd like to build a Bolger boat thatwill
> allow me to safely cruise the Great Lakes. (If you're not familiarby
> with the Great Lakes, they can be as rough as the ocean.) I'm
> looking for something that's trailerable, self-righting, self-
> bailing, and can be singlehanded if need be.
>
> My carpentry skills are basic. I'm just finishing up a Weekender
> Stevenson Projects.
>
> What would you recommend?
>
> Bill Paxton
Bill Paxton,
In a word and with barely constrained enthusiasm,I would
recommend the MICRO.
Virtually any boat that is built well can cruise the Great
Lakes.It all depends on the operational definition of what you mean
by"cruise".For some,nothing short of the Q.E. II will do while for
others a canoe with camping gear is the ultimate trip.Furthermore,I
believe safety is more a function of crew ability/experience then any
particular aspect of a boat.As you stated,the Great Lakes can be
extremely rough and its' history is peppered with all sorts of
maritime disasters both large and small.
As your query appears to suggest that your cruising may be
undertaken alone,the MICRO has ample room for you and your gear.I
have gone two weeks,two people in my MICRO and found the experience
most enjoyable.Mind you,crew selection was crucial to this stated
enjoyment!
Finally,as you have already completed a similarly sized plywood
boat,the MICRO may provide enough of a building challenge to keep it
interesting for you without being too daunting a project and taxing
your resources.Do not be fooled by the fact that she is the cutest
little"Bolger Box" around....she is nevertheless a real sailing
machine!!!!!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,listening to the snow squeek as the thermometer dips
bellow -21 Celsius and the winds of 33 kms/hr give a toasty chill
factor of -44 Celsius which is awefully nice for my friends to the
south of me since it is virtually the same in Fahrenheit,on the
steamy banks of the St.Lawrence......
In a word and with barely constrained enthusiasm,I would
recommend the MICRO.
Virtually any boat that is built well can cruise the Great
Lakes.It all depends on the operational definition of what you mean
by"cruise".For some,nothing short of the Q.E. II will do while for
others a canoe with camping gear is the ultimate trip.Furthermore,I
believe safety is more a function of crew ability/experience then any
particular aspect of a boat.As you stated,the Great Lakes can be
extremely rough and its' history is peppered with all sorts of
maritime disasters both large and small.
As your query appears to suggest that your cruising may be
undertaken alone,the MICRO has ample room for you and your gear.I
have gone two weeks,two people in my MICRO and found the experience
most enjoyable.Mind you,crew selection was crucial to this stated
enjoyment!
Finally,as you have already completed a similarly sized plywood
boat,the MICRO may provide enough of a building challenge to keep it
interesting for you without being too daunting a project and taxing
your resources.Do not be fooled by the fact that she is the cutest
little"Bolger Box" around....she is nevertheless a real sailing
machine!!!!!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,listening to the snow squeek as the thermometer dips
bellow -21 Celsius and the winds of 33 kms/hr give a toasty chill
factor of -44 Celsius which is awefully nice for my friends to the
south of me since it is virtually the same in Fahrenheit,on the
steamy banks of the St.Lawrence......
--- Inbolger@egroups.com, bill@p... wrote:
> I need some advice, folks. I'd like to build a Bolger boat that
will
> allow me to safely cruise the Great Lakes. (If you're not familiar
> with the Great Lakes, they can be as rough as the ocean.) I'm
> looking for something that's trailerable, self-righting, self-
> bailing, and can be singlehanded if need be.
>
> My carpentry skills are basic. I'm just finishing up a Weekender
by
> Stevenson Projects.
>
> What would you recommend?
>
> Bill Paxton
>I'd like to build a Bolger boat that willThere are a couple of questions to answer: what do you require in
> allow me to safely cruise the Great Lakes.
accomodations and speed? How big a project can you see through to
completion? How much hassle are you willing to put up with in
trailering?
The entire universe of Bolger designs that could be construed as
viable answers to your query includes (at first blush and by no means
exhaustivly) Micro, Long Micro, Martha Jane, Black Skimmer, Sea
Bird '86, Centennial II, Wish II, 26' Cruising Canoe, 19' Single
Handed schooner, any of several 'beach cruisers,' Cynthia J.,
Catfish, the Fast Motorsailer (either of 2), Birdwatcher, Jochems
Schooner, Jesse Cooper, Berengaria, Whalewatcher... Even Volunteer
at 35' and 11,000 lbs was designer for ramp launch/retrieve.
(Interpreting from his writing, I think Bolger is most fond of Micro,
Birdwatcher and Jochems.)
Micro is a great boat, but if you want to go 30 miles and back in a
weekend, it just isn't big enough. Nor is it big enough if you want
to sleep over in the boat with a family of four. (I imagine it could
carry the family and gear for camping ashore without trouble.) On the
other hand, it is a formidible project, small as it is. The larger a
project is, the less likely it is to be completed.
How about some more detail about intended use?
Peter
Happy Holidays, Bill,
There is only two answers, The Micro, or if you want something
bigger, The Long Micro.
The Micro, is the same length (LOD) as the Weekender, BUT, it has 5
times the storage, and at least 4 times the cabin volume, with full
seating headroom. It is self rescuing and self righting, and by the
addition of a cockpit floor, and scuppers, it can be self bailing. With
the hatches buttoned down the Navigator (a modification of the Micro,
designed with off shore in mind) can take anything Short of driving
through a water spout. The Micro as drawn is as safe for its' size as
you can find. See;
http://www.common-sense-boats.com/boats/Sail_Boats/micro.htm
for a write up, and;
http://space.tin.it/io/jfwbi/micro.html
for one of the many excellent Micro web pages.
Not too long ago there was a thread on this list and I think it was
agreed that the Micro certainly had, "the most boat for the buck!"
title.
There are many Micro builders and owners on this list, and I think
they will agree, it is the way to go. You certainly have all the support
in building and sailing a Micro right here on this list, that you will
need or want.
I thought long and hard about building the Weekender, or the
Vacationer (they both are beautiful boats and I had bought the plans for
both) before I made up my mind to build the Micro (A funny looking
little boat) but I have never been sorry about my choice. As far as
sailing, it is the difference of hanging on for dear life, or having the
stability or a 30 foot plus, boat under you, as you do with the Micro.
There is, at least a chance that I am prejudice, (I don't think so
but it might be true) So wait for others to respond to your question,
about the many, many virtues of the Micro. In the meantime, Happy
Holidays,
Stan, of the Micro, Snow Goose.
There is only two answers, The Micro, or if you want something
bigger, The Long Micro.
The Micro, is the same length (LOD) as the Weekender, BUT, it has 5
times the storage, and at least 4 times the cabin volume, with full
seating headroom. It is self rescuing and self righting, and by the
addition of a cockpit floor, and scuppers, it can be self bailing. With
the hatches buttoned down the Navigator (a modification of the Micro,
designed with off shore in mind) can take anything Short of driving
through a water spout. The Micro as drawn is as safe for its' size as
you can find. See;
http://www.common-sense-boats.com/boats/Sail_Boats/micro.htm
for a write up, and;
http://space.tin.it/io/jfwbi/micro.html
for one of the many excellent Micro web pages.
Not too long ago there was a thread on this list and I think it was
agreed that the Micro certainly had, "the most boat for the buck!"
title.
There are many Micro builders and owners on this list, and I think
they will agree, it is the way to go. You certainly have all the support
in building and sailing a Micro right here on this list, that you will
need or want.
I thought long and hard about building the Weekender, or the
Vacationer (they both are beautiful boats and I had bought the plans for
both) before I made up my mind to build the Micro (A funny looking
little boat) but I have never been sorry about my choice. As far as
sailing, it is the difference of hanging on for dear life, or having the
stability or a 30 foot plus, boat under you, as you do with the Micro.
There is, at least a chance that I am prejudice, (I don't think so
but it might be true) So wait for others to respond to your question,
about the many, many virtues of the Micro. In the meantime, Happy
Holidays,
Stan, of the Micro, Snow Goose.
Bill, unfortunately the boat would have to be alot
bigger than the EDMON FITSGERAL. Dean
---bill@...wrote:
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/
bigger than the EDMON FITSGERAL. Dean
---bill@...wrote:
> I need some advice, folks. I'd like to build a__________________________________________________
> Bolger boat that will
> allow me to safely cruise the Great Lakes. (If
> you're not familiar
> with the Great Lakes, they can be as rough as the
> ocean.) I'm
> looking for something that's trailerable,
> self-righting, self-
> bailing, and can be singlehanded if need be.
>
> My carpentry skills are basic. I'm just finishing
> up a Weekender by
> Stevenson Projects.
>
> What would you recommend?
>
> Bill Paxton
>
>
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/
I need some advice, folks. I'd like to build a Bolger boat that will
allow me to safely cruise the Great Lakes. (If you're not familiar
with the Great Lakes, they can be as rough as the ocean.) I'm
looking for something that's trailerable, self-righting, self-
bailing, and can be singlehanded if need be.
My carpentry skills are basic. I'm just finishing up a Weekender by
Stevenson Projects.
What would you recommend?
Bill Paxton
allow me to safely cruise the Great Lakes. (If you're not familiar
with the Great Lakes, they can be as rough as the ocean.) I'm
looking for something that's trailerable, self-righting, self-
bailing, and can be singlehanded if need be.
My carpentry skills are basic. I'm just finishing up a Weekender by
Stevenson Projects.
What would you recommend?
Bill Paxton