Re: MDO

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jon n Wanda" <windyjon@...> wrote:
>
> Just trying to help. The 1/4" is not a comon run but a specal order
that is sometimes run for arcitecual orders. In reality they will make
anything you want for a price if order is big enough. Only a few grades
are made in 5/16ths with 3/8ths being the thinnest in all grades. Price
wise it is all about how it is sorced. In Portland Or. the wholesailers
care a good stock that can be gotten through most lumber yards in a day
but shop for price when looking for it.
>
> Jon
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" arvent@ wrote:
> >
> > Hi Jon,
> >
> > Once again I stand corrected!
> >
> > You are correct that the manufacturers do not claim the overlay is
> > waterproof, but DO claim the glue joints are. Therefor sealing with
> > epoxy seems more useful than I inferred even though they do not
mention
> > that - just proper sealers and paint.
> >
> > I was not aware 1/4" MDO was available. I "estimate" the overlay as
> > being 1/16" roughly - basically "paper thin".
> >
> > Just a side-light in my experience the 3/8" cost me more per sheet
than
> > the 5/8" which was "on sale" at the time. I suspect it is far more
> > widely used were weight is not that great a consideration, like in
> > cabinetry for example so is more readily available in stock. I had
to
> > place a special order and if I ordered a 10 sheet minimum there was
no
> > added freight. They just threw it in on top of a bulk order.
> >
> > Nels
> >
> >
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jon n Wanda" <windyjon@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I have used a lot of it on a 32X8' hull and it is no differant
then
> > working with regular plywood other then no checking. The overlay is
not
> > waterproof and the overlay thickness is not added to the ply
thickness.
> > 1/4" is 1/4" and 5/16th is 5/16th. The ply has more glue in the glue
> > lines then even most marine ply so even unpainted it holds up well
20
> > years in the road sign case in the elaments. This is differant then
in
> > the water for a weekend or more so don't confuse the issue. My take
is
> > it is cheaper then marine with more glue but should be treated like
any
> > other plywood. When coldmolding I used laminating epoxy rather then
> > glueing epoxy for soak in applyed with a 1/4' foam roller to alow
for
> > soak in. Sanding is your friend and what makes a glassed wood boat
look
> > like a plastic boat. How much better a complament could you get.
With
> > cild molding I turned layers 90 degrees to each other and on single
> > layer used butblocks of the same plywood 8x thickness each side of
> > joint. You can not find the joints even when you look on the inside
to
> > see where they are.
> > >
> > > Jon
> > >
> > > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" arvent@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > > From my understanding MDO (medium Density Overlaid) plywoods
main
> > > > advantage is that it prevents checking and grain print-through
from
> > the
> > > > underlying plies of either fir or hemlock. The overlay is
cellulose-
> > > > based and and the medium density means it is the same density as
the
> > > > underlying plies.
> > > >
> > > > It is applied with a phenolic resin using both heat and pressure
to
> > > > create a molecular bond that is stronger than the underlying
wood.
> > The
> > > > surface then becomes weatherproof and immediately paintable with
no
> > need
> > > > to fiberglas over - unless added wear resistance is required
e.g.
> > below
> > > > the waterline for instance.
> > > >
> > > > Also from what I understand epoxy bonds with the overlay with
no
> > more
> > > > difficulty than any other standard exterior grade plywood,
although
> > some
> > > > builders rough up the joint area with a bit of sanding.
> > > >
> > > >http://www.canply.org/english/products/overlaidplywood.htm
> > > >
> > > > It is available both in Canada and the USA. Olympic Panel Crezon
is
> > > > often considered a good choice for boat building. Complete specs
> > here
> > > > including finishing and painting recommendations.
> > > >
> > > >
> >
http://www.olypanel.com/common/pdf/Crezon%20-%202%20Step%20Prod%20LIt%20\
\
> > \
> > > > -%2011-07.pdf
> > > >
> > > > Note the recommended paints. Also it is available overlaid on
one
> > side
> > > > onl., and in 10' sheets.
> > > >
> > > > Also the available thicknesses seem a bit odd but they include
the
> > > > overlay. So a 5/16" sheet is actually a 1/4" with the overlay
> > added.
> > > > Also with the open grain of the fir/hemlock it doesn't slice as
> > thinly
> > > > that easily as tropical brands. So the plies will be a bit
thicker
> > and
> > > > the panels somewhat heavier. So for light weight, multi-ply
thin
> > panels
> > > > - forget it. Go with the marine-grade hardwoods. (My 5/8" MDO
has 5
> > > > plies and 2 overlays.)
> > > >
> > > > All of this info is subject to clarification and correction!
> > > >
> > > > Nels
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" <arvent@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Jon,
>
> Once again I stand corrected!
>
> You are correct that the manufacturers do not claim the overlay is
> waterproof, but DO claim the glue joints are. Therefor sealing with
> epoxy seems more useful than I inferred even though they do not mention
> that - just proper sealers and paint.
>
> I was not aware 1/4" MDO was available. I "estimate" the overlay as
> being 1/16" roughly - basically "paper thin".
>
> Just a side-light in my experience the 3/8" cost me more per sheet than
> the 5/8" which was "on sale" at the time. I suspect it is far more
> widely used were weight is not that great a consideration, like in
> cabinetry for example so is more readily available in stock. I had to
> place a special order and if I ordered a 10 sheet minimum there was no
> added freight. They just threw it in on top of a bulk order.
>
> Nels
>
>
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jon n Wanda" <windyjon@> wrote:
> >
> > I have used a lot of it on a 32X8' hull and it is no differant then
> working with regular plywood other then no checking. The overlay is not
> waterproof and the overlay thickness is not added to the ply thickness.
> 1/4" is 1/4" and 5/16th is 5/16th. The ply has more glue in the glue
> lines then even most marine ply so even unpainted it holds up well 20
> years in the road sign case in the elaments. This is differant then in
> the water for a weekend or more so don't confuse the issue. My take is
> it is cheaper then marine with more glue but should be treated like any
> other plywood. When coldmolding I used laminating epoxy rather then
> glueing epoxy for soak in applyed with a 1/4' foam roller to alow for
> soak in. Sanding is your friend and what makes a glassed wood boat look
> like a plastic boat. How much better a complament could you get. With
> cild molding I turned layers 90 degrees to each other and on single
> layer used butblocks of the same plywood 8x thickness each side of
> joint. You can not find the joints even when you look on the inside to
> see where they are.
> >
> > Jon
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" arvent@ wrote:
> > >
> > > From my understanding MDO (medium Density Overlaid) plywoods main
> > > advantage is that it prevents checking and grain print-through from
> the
> > > underlying plies of either fir or hemlock. The overlay is cellulose-
> > > based and and the medium density means it is the same density as the
> > > underlying plies.
> > >
> > > It is applied with a phenolic resin using both heat and pressure to
> > > create a molecular bond that is stronger than the underlying wood.
> The
> > > surface then becomes weatherproof and immediately paintable with no
> need
> > > to fiberglas over - unless added wear resistance is required e.g.
> below
> > > the waterline for instance.
> > >
> > > Also from what I understand epoxy bonds with the overlay with no
> more
> > > difficulty than any other standard exterior grade plywood, although
> some
> > > builders rough up the joint area with a bit of sanding.
> > >
> > >http://www.canply.org/english/products/overlaidplywood.htm
> > >
> > > It is available both in Canada and the USA. Olympic Panel Crezon is
> > > often considered a good choice for boat building. Complete specs
> here
> > > including finishing and painting recommendations.
> > >
> > >
>http://www.olypanel.com/common/pdf/Crezon%20-%202%20Step%20Prod%20LIt%20\
> \
> > > -%2011-07.pdf
> > >
> > > Note the recommended paints. Also it is available overlaid on one
> side
> > > onl., and in 10' sheets.
> > >
> > > Also the available thicknesses seem a bit odd but they include the
> > > overlay. So a 5/16" sheet is actually a 1/4" with the overlay
> added.
> > > Also with the open grain of the fir/hemlock it doesn't slice as
> thinly
> > > that easily as tropical brands. So the plies will be a bit thicker
> and
> > > the panels somewhat heavier. So for light weight, multi-ply thin
> panels
> > > - forget it. Go with the marine-grade hardwoods. (My 5/8" MDO has 5
> > > plies and 2 overlays.)
> > >
> > > All of this info is subject to clarification and correction!
> > >
> > > Nels
> > >
> >
>

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jon n Wanda" <windyjon@...> wrote:
>
> I have used a lot of it on a 32X8' hull and it is no differant then
working with regular plywood other then no checking. The overlay is not
waterproof and the overlay thickness is not added to the ply thickness.
1/4" is 1/4" and 5/16th is 5/16th. The ply has more glue in the glue
lines then even most marine ply so even unpainted it holds up well 20
years in the road sign case in the elaments. This is differant then in
the water for a weekend or more so don't confuse the issue. My take is
it is cheaper then marine with more glue but should be treated like any
other plywood. When coldmolding I used laminating epoxy rather then
glueing epoxy for soak in applyed with a 1/4' foam roller to alow for
soak in. Sanding is your friend and what makes a glassed wood boat look
like a plastic boat. How much better a complament could you get. With
cild molding I turned layers 90 degrees to each other and on single
layer used butblocks of the same plywood 8x thickness each side of
joint. You can not find the joints even when you look on the inside to
see where they are.
>
> Jon
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" arvent@ wrote:
> >
> > From my understanding MDO (medium Density Overlaid) plywoods main
> > advantage is that it prevents checking and grain print-through from
the
> > underlying plies of either fir or hemlock. The overlay is cellulose-
> > based and and the medium density means it is the same density as the
> > underlying plies.
> >
> > It is applied with a phenolic resin using both heat and pressure to
> > create a molecular bond that is stronger than the underlying wood.
The
> > surface then becomes weatherproof and immediately paintable with no
need
> > to fiberglas over - unless added wear resistance is required e.g.
below
> > the waterline for instance.
> >
> > Also from what I understand epoxy bonds with the overlay with no
more
> > difficulty than any other standard exterior grade plywood, although
some
> > builders rough up the joint area with a bit of sanding.
> >
> >http://www.canply.org/english/products/overlaidplywood.htm
> >
> > It is available both in Canada and the USA. Olympic Panel Crezon is
> > often considered a good choice for boat building. Complete specs
here
> > including finishing and painting recommendations.
> >
> >
http://www.olypanel.com/common/pdf/Crezon%20-%202%20Step%20Prod%20LIt%20\
\
> > -%2011-07.pdf
> >
> > Note the recommended paints. Also it is available overlaid on one
side
> > onl., and in 10' sheets.
> >
> > Also the available thicknesses seem a bit odd but they include the
> > overlay. So a 5/16" sheet is actually a 1/4" with the overlay
added.
> > Also with the open grain of the fir/hemlock it doesn't slice as
thinly
> > that easily as tropical brands. So the plies will be a bit thicker
and
> > the panels somewhat heavier. So for light weight, multi-ply thin
panels
> > - forget it. Go with the marine-grade hardwoods. (My 5/8" MDO has 5
> > plies and 2 overlays.)
> >
> > All of this info is subject to clarification and correction!
> >
> > Nels
> >
>

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" <arvent@...> wrote:
>
> From my understanding MDO (medium Density Overlaid) plywoods main
> advantage is that it prevents checking and grain print-through from the
> underlying plies of either fir or hemlock. The overlay is cellulose-
> based and and the medium density means it is the same density as the
> underlying plies.
>
> It is applied with a phenolic resin using both heat and pressure to
> create a molecular bond that is stronger than the underlying wood. The
> surface then becomes weatherproof and immediately paintable with no need
> to fiberglas over - unless added wear resistance is required e.g. below
> the waterline for instance.
>
> Also from what I understand epoxy bonds with the overlay with no more
> difficulty than any other standard exterior grade plywood, although some
> builders rough up the joint area with a bit of sanding.
>
>http://www.canply.org/english/products/overlaidplywood.htm
>
> It is available both in Canada and the USA. Olympic Panel Crezon is
> often considered a good choice for boat building. Complete specs here
> including finishing and painting recommendations.
>
>http://www.olypanel.com/common/pdf/Crezon%20-%202%20Step%20Prod%20LIt%20\
> -%2011-07.pdf
>
> Note the recommended paints. Also it is available overlaid on one side
> onl., and in 10' sheets.
>
> Also the available thicknesses seem a bit odd but they include the
> overlay. So a 5/16" sheet is actually a 1/4" with the overlay added.
> Also with the open grain of the fir/hemlock it doesn't slice as thinly
> that easily as tropical brands. So the plies will be a bit thicker and
> the panels somewhat heavier. So for light weight, multi-ply thin panels
> - forget it. Go with the marine-grade hardwoods. (My 5/8" MDO has 5
> plies and 2 overlays.)
>
> All of this info is subject to clarification and correction!
>
> Nels
>

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Paul Esterle <pesterle@...> wrote:
>
> I have used MDO, both one and two sided. The phenolic surface does
soak
> up a little more epoxy than the bare side. I can tell by how quickly
the
> sheen leaves the surface when applying the first coat of epoxy. I
> noticed the comment about getting a better bond with insulation
against
> the bare side. I disagree, the rougher bare side actually provides
less
> bonding surface than the smooth side, hence a better bond on the
smooth
> side. I accidentally ordered bare once. Used it but prefer the two
sided
> stuff. MDO also woks well with contact cement and laminate. I've built
> many an interior cabinet out of MDO and laminate. See;
>
>http://www.captnpauley.com/10.7%20Galley.html
>
> for an example. That cabinet above the galley sink was built from MDO
> and laminate...
>
> Paul Esterle
> Freelance Boating Writer
> "Capt'n Pauley's Place"
> The Virtual Boatyard
> www.thevirtualboatyard.com
>

--- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
>
> I have been going with comments from different builders on this list and
> elsewhere who have mentioned MDO soaking up a lot of epoxy. It isn't
> something that seems intuitive so I noticed the comments. I have not
> worked with it myself though I would not hesitate to.
>
> HJ
>
> prairiedog2332 wrote:
> > I don't see how MDO would soak up more epoxy than plain fir plywood.
> > Certainly laminating two MDO sheets with a single overlay - plain side
> > to plain side - will take considerable as the plain side is quite rough.
> > I see that as a bonding advantage using proper filling agents in the
> > epoxy.
> >
> > Same idea if building a hull I was planning to insulate. I would go with
> > single overlay MDO to get a good bond with the insulation.
> >
> > I would go with both sides overlaid if building with one layer of
> > plywood only. Any design that calls for 1/4" plywood I would consider
> > 3/8'" MDO. Bit heavier but noticeably stiffer. No need to apply any
> > epoxy - just paint it. Highway signage never gets epoxified to my
> > knowledge.
> >
> > I can see the advantage of glassing below the waterline, as the glass
> > soaks up epoxy and presents a thicker waterproof barrier than just paint
> > or epoxy alone, plus abrasion resistance.
> >
> > Decks also might benefit from a very light glassing to add stiffness to
> > thin plywood. But why not just go with next thickness up? I am thinking
> > the less work the better.
> >
> > Not sure Harry how MDO got that reputation.
> >
> > Nels
> >
> >
> > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@> wrote:
> >
> >> MDO has a reputation for soaking up lots of epoxy, I really think it
> >> would be a waste of time to sand it. Bruce you are building with it
> >> currently, any opinion.
> >>
> >> HJ
> >>
> >> Pierce Nichols wrote:
> >>
> >>> Seems like a small addition -- a single sanding pass on a flat sheet
> >>> is a few minutes with a belt sander. If you have a friend who works
> >>>
> > at
> >
> >>> a cabinet-making shop, they may have access to a power drum sander
> >>> capable of sanding a whole sheet in a single pass.
> >>>
> >>> -p
> >>>
> >>> On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 4:58 AM, Susanne@
> >>> <mailto:Susanne@ philbolger@
> >>> <mailto:philbolger@> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> What has been contributed on this so far will all stand as
> >>>
> > another
> >
> >>> solid thread of durable details and personal experiences.
> >>>
> >>> One more question - without having consulted for instance the
> >>> WEST-epoxy folks and their lab-data:
> >>> - In multiple sheet-thickness laminations to produce thick-ish
> >>> curved panels - such as to produce the topsides- or bottom-panel
> >>> of #630 "ILLINOIS" for instance - are we thus looking at the
> >>>
> > need
> >
> >>> to rough-up the smooth factory resin finish of each sheet i.e.
> >>>
> > 2x
> >
> >>> 32 square-feet each to maximize the bond, in order to (try to)
> >>> equal the direct woodfiber-to-woodfiber bond, so readily
> >>> doable with liquid epoxy between 'raw' wood ?
> >>>
> >>> I'd rather not add to the sanding budget...
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> *From:* prairiedog2332 <mailto:arvent@
> >>> *To:* bolger@yahoogroups.com <mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> >>> *Sent:* Friday, August 20, 2010 11:45 PM
> >>> *Subject:* [bolger] MDO
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> From my understanding MDO (medium Density Overlaid) plywoods
> >>>
> > main
> >
> >>> advantage is that it prevents checking and grain
> >>>
> > print-through
> >
> >>> from the
> >>> underlying plies of either fir or hemlock. The overlay is
> >>> cellulose-
> >>> based and and the medium density means it is the same
> >>>
> > density
> >
> >>> as the
> >>> underlying plies.
> >>>
> >>> It is applied with a phenolic resin using both heat and
> >>> pressure to
> >>> create a molecular bond that is stronger than the underlying
> >>> wood. The
> >>> surface then becomes weatherproof and immediately paintable
> >>> with no need
> >>> to fiberglas over - unless added wear resistance is required
> >>> e.g. below
> >>> the waterline for instance.
> >>>
> >>> Also from what I understand epoxy bonds with the overlay
> >>>
> > with
> >
> >>> no more
> >>> difficulty than any other standard exterior grade plywood,
> >>> although some
> >>> builders rough up the joint area with a bit of sanding.
> >>>
> >>> http://www.canply.org/english/products/overlaidplywood.htm
> >>>
> >>> It is available both in Canada and the USA. Olympic Panel
> >>> Crezon is
> >>> often considered a good choice for boat building. Complete
> >>> specs here
> >>> including finishing and painting recommendations.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> > http://www.olypanel.com/common/pdf/Crezon%20-%202%20Step%20Prod%20LIt%20\
> > \
> >
> >>> -%2011-07.pdf
> >>>
> >>>
> > <http://www.olypanel.com/common/pdf/Crezon%20-%202%20Step%20Prod%20LIt%2\
> > 0-%2011-07.pdf>
> >
> >>> Note the recommended paints. Also it is available overlaid
> >>>
> > on
> >
> >>> one side
> >>> onl., and in 10' sheets.
> >>>
> >>> Also the available thicknesses seem a bit odd but they
> >>>
> > include the
> >
> >>> overlay. So a 5/16" sheet is actually a 1/4" with the
> >>>
> > overlay
> >
> >>> added.
> >>> Also with the open grain of the fir/hemlock it doesn't slice
> >>> as thinly
> >>> that easily as tropical brands. So the plies will be a bit
> >>> thicker and
> >>> the panels somewhat heavier. So for light weight, multi-ply
> >>> thin panels
> >>> - forget it. Go with the marine-grade hardwoods. (My 5/8"
> >>>
> > MDO
> >
> >>> has 5
> >>> plies and 2 overlays.)
> >>>
> >>> All of this info is subject to clarification and correction!
> >>>
> >>> Nels
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

I don't see how MDO would soak up more epoxy than plain fir plywood.
Certainly laminating two MDO  sheets with a single overlay  - plain side
to plain side - will take considerable as the plain side is quite rough.
I see that as a bonding advantage using proper filling agents in the
epoxy.

Same idea if building a hull I was planning to insulate. I would go with
single overlay MDO to get a good bond with the insulation.

I would go with both sides overlaid if building with one layer of
plywood only. Any design that calls for 1/4" plywood I would consider
3/8'" MDO.  Bit heavier but noticeably stiffer. No need to apply any
epoxy - just paint it. Highway signage never gets epoxified to my
knowledge.

I can see the advantage of glassing below the waterline, as the glass
soaks up epoxy and presents a thicker waterproof barrier than just paint
or epoxy alone, plus abrasion resistance.

Decks also might benefit from a very light glassing to add stiffness to
thin plywood. But why not just go with next thickness up? I am thinking
the less work the better.

Not sure Harry how MDO got that reputation.

Nels


--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James<welshman@...>wrote:

MDO has a reputation for soaking up lots of epoxy, I really think it
would be a waste of time to sand it. Bruce you are building with it
currently, any opinion.

HJ

Pierce Nichols wrote:

Seems like a small addition -- a single sanding pass on a flat sheet
is a few minutes with a belt sander. If you have a friend who works

at

a cabinet-making shop, they may have access to a power drum sander
capable of sanding a whole sheet in a single pass.

-p

On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 4:58 AM, Susanne@...
<mailto:Susanne@... philbolger@...<mailto:philbolger@...>wrote:



    What has been contributed on this so far will all stand as

another

solid thread of durable details and personal experiences.

    One more question - without having consulted for instance the
    WEST-epoxy folks and their lab-data:
    - In multiple sheet-thickness laminations to produce thick-ish
    curved panels - such as to produce the topsides- or bottom-panel
    of #630 "ILLINOIS" for instance - are we thus looking at the

need

to rough-up the smooth factory resin finish of each sheet i.e.

2x

32 square-feet each to maximize the bond, in order to (try to)
    equal the direct woodfiber-to-woodfiber bond, so readily
    doable with liquid epoxy between 'raw' wood ?

    I'd rather not add to the sanding budget...

        ----- Original Message -----
        *From:* prairiedog2332 <mailto:arvent@...
        *To:*bolger@yahoogroups.com<mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com*Sent:* Friday, August 20, 2010 11:45 PM
        *Subject:* [bolger] MDO



        From my understanding MDO (medium Density Overlaid) plywoods

main

advantage is that it prevents checking and grain

print-through

from the
        underlying plies of either fir or hemlock. The overlay is
        cellulose-
        based and and the medium density means it is the same

density

as the
        underlying plies.

        It is applied with a phenolic resin using both heat and
        pressure to
        create a molecular bond that is stronger than the underlying
        wood. The
        surface then becomes weatherproof and immediately paintable
        with no need
        to fiberglas over - unless added wear resistance is required
        e.g. below
        the waterline for instance.

        Also from what I understand epoxy bonds with the overlay

with

no more
        difficulty than any other standard exterior grade plywood,
        although some
        builders rough up the joint area with a bit of sanding.http://www.canply.org/english/products/overlaidplywood.htmIt is available both in Canada and the USA. Olympic Panel
        Crezon is
        often considered a good choice for boat building. Complete
        specs here
        including finishing and painting recommendations.

http://www.olypanel.com/common/pdf/Crezon%20-%202%20Step%20Prod%20LIt%20\\

-%2011-07.pdf

<http://www.olypanel.com/common/pdf/Crezon%20-%202%20Step%20Prod%20LIt%2\
0-%2011-07.pdf>

Note the recommended paints. Also it is available overlaid

on

one side
        onl., and in 10' sheets.

        Also the available thicknesses seem a bit odd but they

include the

overlay. So a 5/16" sheet is actually a 1/4" with the

overlay

added.
        Also with the open grain of the fir/hemlock it doesn't slice
        as thinly
        that easily as tropical brands. So the plies will be a bit
        thicker and
        the panels somewhat heavier. So for light weight, multi-ply
        thin panels
        - forget it. Go with the marine-grade hardwoods. (My 5/8"

MDO

has 5
        plies and 2 overlays.)

        All of this info is subject to clarification and correction!

        Nels

------------------------------------

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--- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
>
> MDO has a reputation for soaking up lots of epoxy, I really think it
> would be a waste of time to sand it. Bruce you are building with it
> currently, any opinion.
>
> HJ
>
> Pierce Nichols wrote:
> >
> >
> > Seems like a small addition -- a single sanding pass on a flat sheet
> > is a few minutes with a belt sander. If you have a friend who works
at
> > a cabinet-making shop, they may have access to a power drum sander
> > capable of sanding a whole sheet in a single pass.
> >
> > -p
> >
> > On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 4:58 AM, Susanne@...
> > <mailto:Susanne@... philbolger@...
> > <mailto:philbolger@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > What has been contributed on this so far will all stand as
another
> > solid thread of durable details and personal experiences.
> >
> > One more question - without having consulted for instance the
> > WEST-epoxy folks and their lab-data:
> > - In multiple sheet-thickness laminations to produce thick-ish
> > curved panels - such as to produce the topsides- or bottom-panel
> > of #630 "ILLINOIS" for instance - are we thus looking at the
need
> > to rough-up the smooth factory resin finish of each sheet i.e.
2x
> > 32 square-feet each to maximize the bond, in order to (try to)
> > equal the direct woodfiber-to-woodfiber bond, so readily
> > doable with liquid epoxy between 'raw' wood ?
> >
> > I'd rather not add to the sanding budget...
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > *From:* prairiedog2332 <mailto:arvent@...
> > *To:* bolger@yahoogroups.com <mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> > *Sent:* Friday, August 20, 2010 11:45 PM
> > *Subject:* [bolger] MDO
> >
> >
> >
> > From my understanding MDO (medium Density Overlaid) plywoods
main
> > advantage is that it prevents checking and grain
print-through
> > from the
> > underlying plies of either fir or hemlock. The overlay is
> > cellulose-
> > based and and the medium density means it is the same
density
> > as the
> > underlying plies.
> >
> > It is applied with a phenolic resin using both heat and
> > pressure to
> > create a molecular bond that is stronger than the underlying
> > wood. The
> > surface then becomes weatherproof and immediately paintable
> > with no need
> > to fiberglas over - unless added wear resistance is required
> > e.g. below
> > the waterline for instance.
> >
> > Also from what I understand epoxy bonds with the overlay
with
> > no more
> > difficulty than any other standard exterior grade plywood,
> > although some
> > builders rough up the joint area with a bit of sanding.
> >
> > http://www.canply.org/english/products/overlaidplywood.htm
> >
> > It is available both in Canada and the USA. Olympic Panel
> > Crezon is
> > often considered a good choice for boat building. Complete
> > specs here
> > including finishing and painting recommendations.
> >
> >
http://www.olypanel.com/common/pdf/Crezon%20-%202%20Step%20Prod%20LIt%20\
\
> > -%2011-07.pdf
> >
<http://www.olypanel.com/common/pdf/Crezon%20-%202%20Step%20Prod%20LIt%2\
0-%2011-07.pdf>
> >
> > Note the recommended paints. Also it is available overlaid
on
> > one side
> > onl., and in 10' sheets.
> >
> > Also the available thicknesses seem a bit odd but they
include the
> > overlay. So a 5/16" sheet is actually a 1/4" with the
overlay
> > added.
> > Also with the open grain of the fir/hemlock it doesn't slice
> > as thinly
> > that easily as tropical brands. So the plies will be a bit
> > thicker and
> > the panels somewhat heavier. So for light weight, multi-ply
> > thin panels
> > - forget it. Go with the marine-grade hardwoods. (My 5/8"
MDO
> > has 5
> > plies and 2 overlays.)
> >
> > All of this info is subject to clarification and correction!
> >
> > Nels
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

Seems like a small addition -- a single sanding pass on a flat sheet is a few minutes with a belt sander. If you have a friend who works at a cabinet-making shop, they may have access to a power drum sander capable of sanding a whole sheet in a single pass. 

-p

On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 4:58 AM,Susanne@...<philbolger@...>wrote:

What has been contributed on this so far will all stand as another solid thread of durable details and personal experiences.

One more question - without having consulted for instance the WEST-epoxy folks and their lab-data:
- In multiple sheet-thickness laminations to produce thick-ish curved panels - such as to produce the topsides- or bottom-panel of #630 "ILLINOIS" for instance - are we thus looking at the need to rough-up the smooth factory resin finish of each sheet i.e. 2x 32 square-feet each to maximize the bond, in order to (try to) equal the direct woodfiber-to-woodfiber bond, so readily doable with liquid epoxy between 'raw' wood ? 

I'd rather not add to the sanding budget...

----- Original Message -----

From:prairiedog2332

To:bolger@yahoogroups.com

Sent:Friday, August 20, 2010 11:45 PM

Subject:[bolger] MDO

 

From my understanding MDO (medium Density Overlaid) plywoods main
advantage is that it prevents checking and grain print-through from the
underlying plies of either fir or hemlock. The overlay is cellulose-
based and and the medium density means it is the same density as the
underlying plies.

It is applied with a phenolic resin using both heat and pressure to
create a molecular bond that is stronger than the underlying wood. The
surface then becomes weatherproof and immediately paintable with no need
to fiberglas over - unless added wear resistance is required e.g. below
the waterline for instance.

Also from what I understand epoxy bonds with the overlay with no more
difficulty than any other standard exterior grade plywood, although some
builders rough up the joint area with a bit of sanding.

http://www.canply.org/english/products/overlaidplywood.htm

It is available both in Canada and the USA. Olympic Panel Crezon is
often considered a good choice for boat building. Complete specs here
including finishing and painting recommendations.

http://www.olypanel.com/common/pdf/Crezon%20-%202%20Step%20Prod%20LIt%20\
-%2011-07.pdf

Note the recommended paints. Also it is available overlaid on one side
onl., and in 10' sheets.

Also the available thicknesses seem a bit odd but they include the
overlay. So a 5/16" sheet is actually a 1/4" with the overlay added.
Also with the open grain of the fir/hemlock it doesn't slice as thinly
that easily as tropical brands. So the plies will be a bit thicker and
the panels somewhat heavier. So for light weight, multi-ply thin panels
- forget it. Go with the marine-grade hardwoods. (My 5/8" MDO has 5
plies and 2 overlays.)

All of this info is subject to clarification and correction!

Nels

>
> I don't know if sanding would be necessary when laminating multiple

> of MDO. However, I think it is a lot less effort to scuff up a surface

> to sand out epoxy 'orange peel" as required to get a good finish on

> coated plywood. And MDO does not require the application of multiple

> of epoxy. I think that the labor saving offered by MDO is

>
>
>
> JohnT
>
>
>

>
> What has been contributed on this so far will all stand as another solid thread of durable details and personal experiences.
>
> One more question - without having consulted for instance the WEST-epoxy folks and their lab-data:
> - In multiple sheet-thickness laminations to produce thick-ish curved panels - such as to produce the topsides- or bottom-panel of #630 "ILLINOIS" for instance - are we thus looking at the need to rough-up the smooth factory resin finish of each sheet i.e. 2x 32 square-feet each to maximize the bond, in order to (try to) equal the direct woodfiber-to-woodfiber bond, so readily doable with liquid epoxy between 'raw' wood ?
>
> I'd rather not add to the sanding budget...
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: prairiedog2332
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 11:45 PM
> Subject: [bolger] MDO
>
>
>
> From my understanding MDO (medium Density Overlaid) plywoods main
> advantage is that it prevents checking and grain print-through from the
> underlying plies of either fir or hemlock. The overlay is cellulose-
> based and and the medium density means it is the same density as the
> underlying plies.
>
> It is applied with a phenolic resin using both heat and pressure to
> create a molecular bond that is stronger than the underlying wood. The
> surface then becomes weatherproof and immediately paintable with no need
> to fiberglas over - unless added wear resistance is required e.g. below
> the waterline for instance.
>
> Also from what I understand epoxy bonds with the overlay with no more
> difficulty than any other standard exterior grade plywood, although some
> builders rough up the joint area with a bit of sanding.
>
>http://www.canply.org/english/products/overlaidplywood.htm
>
> It is available both in Canada and the USA. Olympic Panel Crezon is
> often considered a good choice for boat building. Complete specs here
> including finishing and painting recommendations.
>
>http://www.olypanel.com/common/pdf/Crezon%20-%202%20Step%20Prod%20LIt%20\
> -%2011-07.pdf
>
> Note the recommended paints. Also it is available overlaid on one side
> onl., and in 10' sheets.
>
> Also the available thicknesses seem a bit odd but they include the
> overlay. So a 5/16" sheet is actually a 1/4" with the overlay added.
> Also with the open grain of the fir/hemlock it doesn't slice as thinly
> that easily as tropical brands. So the plies will be a bit thicker and
> the panels somewhat heavier. So for light weight, multi-ply thin panels
> - forget it. Go with the marine-grade hardwoods. (My 5/8" MDO has 5
> plies and 2 overlays.)
>
> All of this info is subject to clarification and correction!
>
> Nels
>

----- Original Message -----

From:prairiedog2332

To:bolger@yahoogroups.com

Sent:Friday, August 20, 2010 11:45 PM

Subject:[bolger] MDO

 

From my understanding MDO (medium Density Overlaid) plywoods main
advantage is that it prevents checking and grain print-through from the
underlying plies of either fir or hemlock. The overlay is cellulose-
based and and the medium density means it is the same density as the
underlying plies.

It is applied with a phenolic resin using both heat and pressure to
create a molecular bond that is stronger than the underlying wood. The
surface then becomes weatherproof and immediately paintable with no need
to fiberglas over - unless added wear resistance is required e.g. below
the waterline for instance.

Also from what I understand epoxy bonds with the overlay with no more
difficulty than any other standard exterior grade plywood, although some
builders rough up the joint area with a bit of sanding.

http://www.canply.org/english/products/overlaidplywood.htm

It is available both in Canada and the USA. Olympic Panel Crezon is
often considered a good choice for boat building. Complete specs here
including finishing and painting recommendations.

http://www.olypanel.com/common/pdf/Crezon%20-%202%20Step%20Prod%20LIt%20\
-%2011-07.pdf

Note the recommended paints. Also it is available overlaid on one side
onl., and in 10' sheets.

Also the available thicknesses seem a bit odd but they include the
overlay. So a 5/16" sheet is actually a 1/4" with the overlay added.
Also with the open grain of the fir/hemlock it doesn't slice as thinly
that easily as tropical brands. So the plies will be a bit thicker and
the panels somewhat heavier. So for light weight, multi-ply thin panels
- forget it. Go with the marine-grade hardwoods. (My 5/8" MDO has 5
plies and 2 overlays.)

All of this info is subject to clarification and correction!

Nels

> Also with all the good things I have been hearing
> about MDO I will be useing it on the couple of boat
> projects I have comeing up! I know they are not Bolger
> boats but I will post a few photos of old boats that
> are being reused and not turned into landfill.
>
> Blessings Krissie

> If you had 'inside pull' at a plywood mill, one
> could fabricate copper
> foil on one side of the MDO economically achieving
> an antifouling
> effect. Indeed, I wonder if aluminum has
> antifouling effect?
>

> If you are going to just build a small boat that
> will only last a few
> years and spend most its time out of the water
> indoors out of the
> elaments or be painted again every year why not just
> use some cheap
> plywood and putty the flaws. I am working on a
> 10,000# 32'sternwheeler
> that will stay in the water for long periods of time
> through snow,
> rain,freezing rain, hot sun and high winds (the NW
> gets it all). The
> bottom is two layers of 3/8ths MDO cold molded and
> the sides are 1/2'
> MDO over that is 10 Oz. and 6 Oz. glass and on the
> bottom 4 Oz.Dynel
> for beaching. Decks and cabin will all have 4 Oz.
> glass. More work now
> but less and easyer work later so there is more time
> to enjoy. Epoxy
> with out glass gives little abrasion protection
> becouse the glass is
> what gives it stringth as a coating. That is why
> D-Fir ply will swell
> and chaf if you use epoxy without glass as a coating
> on the outside
> when it gets a scrach in it. Cutting corners on
> plywood boats is what
> gives them a bad name in the boating world. Some
> have been around for
> 50 years some get burned after a few. To me even a
> dingy should be
> built to last. If it is just for short term you can
> use old sheets
> insted of glass and the missmixed latex for $4 a
> gallon the color
> solection will get attention.
>
> Jon
>

> Anybody heard of MDO-A (apparently has one side with an aluminum film
> bonded to it instead of kraft paper...

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
>
> My approach to MDO would be to not glass it at all or bother with
epoxy
> except on the bottom for abrasion protection and on the joints if it
was
> stitch and glue. I would use double side and prime and shoot latex.
>
> To me one of the benefits of MDO would getting away from the time
that
> messing with glass and epoxy adds to boatbuilding.
>
> HJ

> Having never used MDO before, but considering it for Cartoon 40, I'd
> like to solicit comments from folks who've used it in the past.
>
> 1) One-sided or two-sided?
>
> 2) If one sided, which side out?
>
> 3) How well does the overlay take epoxy?
>
> I usually put the good side of plywood on the interior of the boat for
> a nicer finish. Then, I fill/sand checks and such on the "bad" side
> where it's easiest to get at them before glassing. Can I do the same
> thing with MDO?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Jon Kolb
> www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
>
>
>

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
>
> > It seems there are differing opinions on whether to glass the
overlay
> > or not.
>
> Differing opinions for sure!
>
> On one hand, painted MDO is spec'ed for use as exterior signage, a
> tough demanding application with 100% exterior exposure for years
and
> years.
>
> On the other hand, I asked our hero PCB his advice on the use of MDO
> for my building of Topaz Spyder, and he said no; that I should use
> epoxy and fiberglass sheathing.
>
> I take PCB's answer to mean, it depends on the boat. Topaz is
a 'big
> boat' which justifies a 'big investment' in labor and materials. On
> the opposite hand, a small disposable boat does not justify the
cost.
> Where your Cartoon 40 falls on this spectrum only you can say.
>

----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce Hallman
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 12:27 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: MDO


> It seems there are differing opinions on whether to glass the overlay
> or not.

Differing opinions for sure!

On one hand, painted MDO is spec'ed for use as exterior signage, a
tough demanding application with 100% exterior exposure for years and
years.

On the other hand, I asked our hero PCB his advice on the use of MDO
for my building of Topaz Spyder, and he said no; that I should use
epoxy and fiberglass sheathing.

I take PCB's answer to mean, it depends on the boat. Topaz is a 'big
boat' which justifies a 'big investment' in labor and materials. On
the opposite hand, a small disposable boat does not justify the cost.
Where your Cartoon 40 falls on this spectrum only you can say.





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> It seems there are differing opinions on whether to glass the overlay
> or not.

> Over on the instant boats bb, there was an interesting link to
> roseburg's new SuperPly. this stuff looks very promising.

> Anybody heard of MDO-A (apparently has one side with an aluminum film
> bonded to it instead of kraft paper... just ran across a reference to it
> here:
>
>http://www.signwavedesigns.com/MDO%20Plywood.htm
> <http://www.signwavedesigns.com/MDO%20Plywood.htm>
>
> Bruce
>
> Ron Magen wrote:
> > Jon,
> >
> > I'm in the same quandary.
> >
>
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> Anybody heard of MDO-A (apparently has one side with
> an aluminum film
> bonded to it instead of kraft paper... just ran
> across a reference to it
> here:
>
>http://www.signwavedesigns.com/MDO%20Plywood.htm
>
> Bruce

>...thoroughly finish it with epoxy and then paint. Glass on the

> full bottom for abrasion of course.

>
> Jon,
>
> I'm in the same quandary.
>
> I've been intrigued with the stuff for a few years. Due to the fact

> I hate it when 'shipping charges' tend to equal - or EXCEED - the

> of the goods, I've been looking for a local source. Because one that
> stocks the stuff seems non-existent, I've been doing 'sight unseen'
> research. The idea is/was to be able to TELL a local yard WHAT to

> and from WHOM.
>

----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Magen
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 12:03 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: MDO


Jon,

I'm in the same quandary.

I've been intrigued with the stuff for a few years. Due to the fact that
I hate it when 'shipping charges' tend to equal - or EXCEED - the cost
of the goods, I've been looking for a local source. Because one that
stocks the stuff seems non-existent, I've been doing 'sight unseen'
research. The idea is/was to be able to TELL a local yard WHAT to order,
and from WHOM.

The 'best' seems to be from 'Crazon' {sp? - if you are interested, I'll
look at my notes}.
The 'wood base' is an *exterior* BC grade.
The 'Good' side is a thermoplastic-impregnated 'Kraft Paper' adhered to
the wood {B side ?} with the same stuff.
The 'thinnest' seems to be 5/16, however nobody seems to have it. 3/8
seems to be the 'most commonly available' thin stuff.
It is 'typically' applied with the 'Good' side INWARD - for easy
painting, and the 'outside' will be 'filled & glassed', anyway.
There is debate about sanding off the 'Good' side prior to epoxy
application. {Personally, I would do some testing with MY epoxy before
starting to build}
This leads to the debate concerning 'One-Sided' vs. 'Two-Sided' - I
think a lot depends on the 'cost differential' YOU can get. Also your
epoxy cost and how much you like 'filling & sanding & fairing' to prep
the hull. Also, how 'paranoid' you are. Supposedly the stuff will stand
up to immersion. All you have to do is seal the edges and epoxy, fill, &
glass the seams. No glass 'sheathing', just paint.

This is what I've found out, so far. Hope it helps. For myself, I'm
'collecting' different 'classic' plans {from the 30's to 50's}and
committed to building one of them from this stuff.

Regards & Good Luck,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop

> 10. MDO
> Posted by: "adventures_in_astrophotography"
jon@...adventures_in_astrophotography
> Date: Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:58 am ((PST))
>
> Having never used MDO before, but considering it for Cartoon 40, I'd
> like to solicit comments from folks who've used it in the past.
> SNIP





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Jon,
>
> I'm in the same quandary.
>
> I've been intrigued with the stuff for a few years. Due to the fact that
> I hate it when 'shipping charges' tend to equal - or EXCEED - the cost
> of the goods, I've been looking for a local source. Because one that
> stocks the stuff seems non-existent, I've been doing 'sight unseen'
> research. The idea is/was to be able to TELL a local yard WHAT to order,
> and from WHOM.
>
> The 'best' seems to be from 'Crazon' {sp? - if you are interested, I'll
> look at my notes}.
> The 'wood base' is an *exterior* BC grade.
> The 'Good' side is a thermoplastic-impregnated 'Kraft Paper' adhered to
> the wood {B side ?} with the same stuff.
> The 'thinnest' seems to be 5/16, however nobody seems to have it. 3/8
> seems to be the 'most commonly available' thin stuff.
> It is 'typically' applied with the 'Good' side INWARD - for easy
> painting, and the 'outside' will be 'filled & glassed', anyway.
> There is debate about sanding off the 'Good' side prior to epoxy
> application. {Personally, I would do some testing with MY epoxy before
> starting to build}
> This leads to the debate concerning 'One-Sided' vs. 'Two-Sided' - I
> think a lot depends on the 'cost differential' YOU can get. Also your
> epoxy cost and how much you like 'filling & sanding & fairing' to prep
> the hull. Also, how 'paranoid' you are. Supposedly the stuff will stand
> up to immersion. All you have to do is seal the edges and epoxy, fill, &
> glass the seams. No glass 'sheathing', just paint.
>
> This is what I've found out, so far. Hope it helps. For myself, I'm
> 'collecting' different 'classic' plans {from the 30's to 50's}and
> committed to building one of them from this stuff.
>
> Regards & Good Luck,
> Ron Magen
> Backyard Boatshop
>

> 10. MDO
> Posted by: "adventures_in_astrophotography"

> Date: Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:58 am ((PST))
>
> Having never used MDO before, but considering it for Cartoon 40, I'd
> like to solicit comments from folks who've used it in the past.
> SNIP

> Having never used MDO before, but considering it

> But looking at the website, I would ask Peter, isn't the Signal

On Wed, 1 Sep 2004 08:52:34 +0800, Bruce F wrote:
> John B. Trussell wrote:
> > an early version of coldmolded plywood were the "paper canoes".
> > These were made up of layers of paper over a male mold and held
> > together with shellac.
> > ...
>
> I think you will find that the paper they used for these canoes
> was made from cloth waste and was far superior to the pulp that
> we get these days. More like the japanese silk paper that you
> sometimes see sold as giftwrap.

--
John <jkohnen@...>
http://www.boat-links.com/
One boat just leads to another.
<John Kohnen>

> MDO sounds like good stuff. I wonder what sort of adhesion

> an early version of coldmolded plywood were the "paper canoes".
> These were made up of layers of paper over a male mold and held
> together with shellac. There was recently an article in MAIB,
> and I think John Gardner and the original Mariners Catalogue
> had articles on them. It should be possible to do better with
> modern epoxies, but you would still have to build a mold and
> there are probably better fabrics than paper these days!

>Nose day (charity day) in 2002 (3?). It was made from old newspapers and
>posters, built up over an existing kayak as mold, to a thickness of 4mm,
>with epoxy, and vacuum bagged. It lasted pretty well, though one area
>went soft after 3 days on the water, but a bit of drying out and
>re-coating did the trick.
>
> Sounds cheap, but the epoxy certainly isn't. It's also pretty heavy (50
>pounds).

----- Original Message -----
From: Nels
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 9:34 AM
Subject: [bolger] Re: MDO


--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John B. Trussell"
<John.Trussell@w...> wrote:
> MDO sounds like good stuff. I wonder what sort of adhesion
problems would occur if MDO were used for stitch and glue
construction. Specifically, if the epoxy/tape adheres to the overlay,
does the adhesion of the overlay to the plywood become the weak
link? If so, how weak? Or is it necessary or desirable to remove
the overlay where the tape runs?
>
> John T

Good question John.

When I was down visiting Peter Lenihan and purchasing his Micro we
were at his building site for Windermere. He is using Crezon which
has the overlay on both sides. He was picking up the scraps and
noticed two were welded together. I guess some epoxy drips fell on
one and the second one stuck to it. So he pried them apart and the
wood itself failed, but the overlay stayed connected to the shredded
wood. This is with no prep or care in gluing!

I believe the overlay is applied using heat and pressure just like
with plywood laminating. So I think you can use the MDO just like
regular plywood. You can also get it with the overlay only on one
side and then have the open wood on the inside where most of the glue
and tape would be.

But there is absolutely no sign of delamination between the overlay
and the glass on LESTAT. Seems to be all one entity -
wood,overlay,epoxy, glass and paint!

It is kind of disconcerting when they call the overlay "paper", yet
paper is refined wood, isn't it! The paper fibers become the "fairing
compound for the final surface.

Cheers, Nels



Bolger rules!!!
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- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> MDO sounds like good stuff. I wonder what sort of adhesion

>
> John T

----- Original Message -----
From: craig o'donnell
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 6:34 AM
Subject: [bolger] MDO



THERE'S AN ONLINE DISCUSSION OF MDO FOR BOATBUILDING ON THE MOTHER OF ALL
MARITIME LINKS PAGE

Oops. Cat has been busy on my keyboard..

Mother of All Maritime Links page hosted by John Kohnen. It's an old
discussion but it's still valid.

www.boat-links.com
--
Craig O'Donnell
Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
<http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fassitt/>
The Proa FAQ <http://boat-links.com/proafaq.html>
The Cheap Pages <http://www.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/>
Sailing Canoes, Polytarp Sails, Bamboo, Chinese Junks,
American Proas, the Bolger Boat Honor Roll,
Plywood Boats, Bamboo Rafts, &c.
_________________________________

-- Professor of Boatology -- Junkomologist
-- Macintosh kinda guy
Friend of Wanda the Wonder Cat, 1991-1997.
_________________________________


Bolger rules!!!
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- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Hi Frank -
>
> Curses-------- After all I've heard from Peter and his
> crew I thought I was in for a real treat. Guess I'll just have to
> stick with my Dutch & German brews.
>
> Aloth
> - Jack - Ft Lauderdale

> Hmmmmm.....
>
> Generations of Buddhist monks chanted to achieve inner oneness; had they

> water, plywood, epoxy, electricity and a Bolger book, they might have

> a smidge closer to that Total Satori state. Who knew?

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:
I am not even going to TRY to reach
> his level of craftmanship:-) A less than mirror like finish is not
> going to effect the efficiency of a boat going about 5 knots much
of
> the time.
>
> Cheers, Nels


Nels,
It's really easy,just quit drinking all that spring water,fer da
love-o-God, and start loading up with some hop juice.In no time you
too can be a sanding fool comme moi :-)
And yes,it is precisely that low speed travel that needs all the
help it can get and is most effected by a less then "perfect"
finish.The slicker the surface,the more difficult it becomes for
nats,mayflies and other airborne free-loading critters from hell to
hook their smelly little feet onto, resulting in all sorts of
disturbances to the laminar airflow trying so desperately to
establish itself around our fine hulls.Once they get a foothold,they
soon start nesting and laying eggs which only attracts more
freeloaders,like spiders, to the goodlife,with waterfront property!It
is even worse with the spiders since they build huge webbed sails
which can sometimes almost rip out ones dock lines by the cleats!Same
thing happens bellow the waterline with those blasted buggers,the
Zebra mussels. I swear to God,LESTAT always went faster after I would
wipe down her hull before heading out for some serious
drinking...WOH!...I mean sailing.Hmmmmmm,come to think of it,she
would sometimes get moving really fast,even at anchor, the more I
assumed a beer induced supine position in the cockpit.Amazing how
fast clouds can travel when they've got someplace to go:-)


Sincerely,

Peter Lenihan,bone dry and dreaming of better days to come and some
that went by way too fast,from along the big dirty St.Lawrence........

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Bales" <fbales@l...> wrote:
>
> Thanks Nels. I knew Peter was "Mr. Sandman," but I just thought it
was the
> dream-state induced by those Canadian beers.

No,no,no Frank :-) you got it all wrong! The dream state comes from
endless hours of beautifully mindless sanding.Imagine the"white
noise" hum from a sander combined with the steady low frequency
vibrations of the electrical sander resonating up through your hands
and knees multiplied by several hours at a time....all your worries
just fade away.....sweet........ THEN comes the mighty fierce
thirst,which knows no end, and this is where the trouble usually
begins.Somewhere between beer number 6 and beer number 10,ones mind
is liberated from her moorings and afloat with crazy thoughts
like"Yessirree,I sure do love the looks of all that sanded surface!"
or "Geewiz,I've done 240 square feet today,I bet I can do more
tomorrow!" and" Gosh,this feels almost as smooth as Peskys
bottom.....ooops!.".But the one that really does it for me
is,"Damnit,all this walking back-n-forth to take a leak is wearing me
out,better get back to doin' some sanding before I trip an' hurt
myself or just stop walking all together!" Life doesn't get much
better for a builder,I tell ya :-)


Sincerely,

Peter"the human beer sponge" Lenihan, whose favorite motto is:"better
to have sanded and looped then to never have sanded at all",from
along the warming shores of the St.Lawrence............




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- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
> Thanks Nels. I knew Peter was "Mr. Sandman," but I just thought it

> dream-state induced by those Canadian beers.

> Hi All -
>
> Just to add a little something to this MDO discussion ----

> Aloha - Jack

>
> Peter - you never told me the name of those good Canadian beer

> Hi Frank,
>
> Just to let you know that a "layer" in Peter's lingo actually

> to three coats:-)
>

> Thanks Nels. I knew Peter was "Mr. Sandman," but I just thought it

> dream-state induced by those Canadian beers. Anyway . . .
>
> What I'm hearing then is glass wasn't used on LESTAT's hull below

> waterline, just epoxy (lots of it), a barrier coat (lots of it

> then lots of paint with liberal sanding between coats.
>
> FrankB

> Frank,
> I thought a bit after last replying( a rare thing for me :-))

> recall that I did put a layer of Interlux Barrier Coat(404/401 ?)
> all over the hull before painting....yikes!...another case of going
> over board :-)
>
> Thanks.
>
> Peter Lenihan

> Ah, I was thinking you just painted the MDO. Glad to have that

> Even lazy beer guzzling fools build beautiful boats. --Frank

> Peter, did you completely glass LESTAT's hull? It was built with

> MDO, correct? Are you glassing your Windermere's hull? --FrankB

> It is essential to seal the edges of MDO
> Grant

> John,
> So I can be a little slow...
> No all over epoxy coat?
> For taped Carnell/Payson butts and chine tapes, do you grind back

> in the taped area?

> John,
> So I can be a little slow...
> No all over epoxy coat?
> For taped Carnell/Payson butts and chine tapes, do you grind back the paper
> in the taped area?
>
> Justin
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Bell" <smallboatdesigner@...>
> To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 5:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [bolger] MDO
>
>
>> What I meant was to use MDO and fiberglass the seams at any butt joints.
>> Taping the edges would be good too. For a boat like Micro that isn't going
>> to see anything but the keel touching ground, I wouldn't bother glassing
> the
>> bottom. For a boat that might take the beach on its bottom, coat of glass
>> wouldn't hurt though. Otherwise glass is totally superfluous.
>>
>> Once you've used good plywood, you'll never go back to junk.
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
> (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, TOMCBRADY@C... wrote:
>> Hi John,
>> Your comment was Use MDO and just fiberglass the edges. Am I
> understanding you right? MDO does not have to be coated with
> fiberglass or epoxy just painted and your through. I thought MDO's
> outside finish was just a paper coating.
>
> Tom on Sandpiper in SW Florida.
> ***************************************
>
> Hi Tom,
> I'll jump in, though I'm not a boatbuilding expert. We have used MDO
> several times for architectural millwork applications, and signage. As
> it was specified by the architect, it was paint directly over the MDO.
> My understanding is that all those big green highway signs hanging
> over all the interstate highways are just that. If that's the case, it
> looks good for boating use. They seem to hold up fairly well.
>
> A Sante,
> David Graybeal
> Portland, OR.
>
> "What does the salmon say when he runs head-first into the concrete
> wall?...dam!
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
> (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

> to see anything but the keel touching ground, I wouldn't bother

> bottom. For a boat that might take the beach on its bottom, coat of

> wouldn't hurt though. Otherwise glass is totally superfluous.
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Bell" <smallboatdesigner@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 5:31 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] MDO


> What I meant was to use MDO and fiberglass the seams at any butt joints.
> Taping the edges would be good too. For a boat like Micro that isn't going
> to see anything but the keel touching ground, I wouldn't bother glassing
the
> bottom. For a boat that might take the beach on its bottom, coat of glass
> wouldn't hurt though. Otherwise glass is totally superfluous.
>
> Once you've used good plywood, you'll never go back to junk.
>
>

----- Original Message -----
From: <TOMCBRADY@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 2:57 PM
Subject: [bolger] MDO


| Hi John,
| Your comment was Use MDO and just fiberglass the edges. It will
save
| you $400 worth of aggravation. Am I understanding you right? MDO does not
have
| to be coated with fiberglass or epoxy just painted and your through. I
thought
| MDO's outside finish was just a paper coating. Am I wrong and/or is it
tough
| enough to hold up without fiberglass and epoxy. If it is it sounds more
like a
| winner all the time. I really hate to beat this to death but I would
really
| appreciate the info. Thanks! Tom on Sandpiper in SW Florida.
|
|
| [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
|
|
| Bolger rules!!!
| - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
| - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
| - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
| - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
| - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
| - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
| Yahoo! Groups Links
|
|
|
|
|

> Hi John,
> Your comment was Use MDO and just fiberglass the edges. Am I

> to some extent.
>
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "soussouchew" <vachew@...>

> If money was no object, I would use the best marine ply
> I could find. (Of course, of money was no object, I
> might just buy a boat).
>
> Vince

> What are the advantages and disadvantages of using MDO

> a plywood boat? I have seen a lot of discussion about the

> use, but never really heard why it is or is not superior to regular
> plywood.

> What are the advantages and disadvantages of using MDO when building
> a plywood boat? I have seen a lot of discussion about the types to
> use, but never really heard why it is or is not superior to regular
> plywood.
>
> Any input would be appreciated...

>
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
> (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Coho" <abcoho@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2004 8:46 PM
Subject: [bolger] MDO


> What are the advantages and disadvantages of using MDO when building
> a plywood boat? I have seen a lot of discussion about the types to
> use, but never really heard why it is or is not superior to regular
> plywood.
>
> Any input would be appreciated...
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

> Not a bad idea at all, but the point is how does that give 1 side MDO
> an advantage over any old DFir where one is doing what you suggest?
> All you end up with is a really think layer of kraft paper and epoxy
> where you don't need it.
>

--- In bolger@y..., wmrpage@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 11/17/02 8:55:05 PM Central Standard Time,
> proaconstrictor@y... writes:
>
> > If you turn the paper face inward,
> > you waste that smoothness where it is only a luxury, and where
> > woodgrain might look nice, while you are left finishing DFir to
> > marine speck on the outside, I don't see that as very attractive.
> >
>
> I have no experience with MDO, one-sided or two-sided. However,
someone in
> this group recommended using the "A" side of AC ply on the
interior, where it
> saved finishing, and the "C" side out, where it can (and must) be
coated,
> glassed, filled and faired. This sounded like a pretty good idea to
me. Based
> upon my limited experience, fairing the exterior of a hull is much
easier and
> more pleasant work than laboring on the interior.
>
> Ciao for Niao,
> Bill in MN
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> If you turn the paper face inward,
> you waste that smoothness where it is only a luxury, and where
> woodgrain might look nice, while you are left finishing DFir to
> marine speck on the outside, I don't see that as very attractive.
>

----- Original Message -----
From: proaconstrictor
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 8:54 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: MDO


I haven't used MDO, but one purported advantage is that its surface
is supper smooth, particularly relative to standard DFir. Of course
decent luan is very smooth also. If you turn the paper face inward,
you waste that smoothness where it is only a luxury, and where
woodgrain might look nice, while you are left finishing DFir to
marine speck on the outside, I don't see that as very attractive.

As far as Kraft paper soaking up epoxy is concerned, I would hope
so. What happens if it doesn't soak it up right to the barrier layer
of glue? Are you left with blister resistance and toughness relative
to Kraft paper? On the other hand, if it did soak it up, it should
be pretty good. The Gougeons have said in the past, that one of the
main advantages of sheating with fiberglass, more important than
adding structure (except accross joints) is that it simply holds a
thick layer of epoxy in place and gauarantees a consistant film
thickness, also the film in reinforced with glass. But they say if
you need more beef, just go for more wood. On that basis a fully
saturated Kraft paper would probably be a good layer. I would just
worry about the consistency of penetration. Also, It is more
expensive than exterior grade asian ply with phenolic glue, so why
bother.


--- In bolger@y..., "Richard Barnes" <oakbowerybarnes@e...> wrote:
> That's why I used one sided , glassed the ply side; epoxy and paint
on the MDO face.
> I was
> wondering if the papered on one side might be better in some ways
if
> you glass over the unpapered side since you would get better
adhesion
> between the glass and the wood fibers because of a deeper
penetration
> of the epoxy?
>
> That glued on 1/16" thick paper seems to have no real advantage
if
> one is glassing.
>
> That is correct. If both faces are to receive glass cloth in
epoxy then don't use MDO. It is however a better grade of core veneer
than some AC fir I have seen; that might be one reason for using it.
>
>
>
>
> --- In bolger@y..., "Richard Barnes" <oakbowerybarnes@e...> wrote:
> >
> > but it can;t really soak up a ton of anything because the
paper
> layer is less than a 1/6th thick on most MDO.
> >
> > OOPS! should have been 1/16th
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred'
posts
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and
<snip> away
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@y...
> - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@y...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In bolger@y..., "Richard Barnes" <oakbowerybarnes@e...> wrote:
> That's why I used one sided , glassed the ply side; epoxy and paint
on the MDO face.
> I was
> wondering if the papered on one side might be better in some ways
if
> you glass over the unpapered side since you would get better
adhesion
> between the glass and the wood fibers because of a deeper
penetration
> of the epoxy?
>
> That glued on 1/16" thick paper seems to have no real advantage
if
> one is glassing.
>
> That is correct. If both faces are to receive glass cloth in
epoxy then don't use MDO. It is however a better grade of core veneer
than some AC fir I have seen; that might be one reason for using it.
>
>
>
>
> --- In bolger@y..., "Richard Barnes" <oakbowerybarnes@e...> wrote:
> >
> > but it can;t really soak up a ton of anything because the
paper
> layer is less than a 1/6th thick on most MDO.
> >
> > OOPS! should have been 1/16th
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred'
posts
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and
<snip> away
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@y...
> - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@y...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In bolger@y..., "Richard Barnes" <oakbowerybarnes@e...> wrote:
>
> but it can;t really soak up a ton of anything because the paper
layer is less than a 1/6th thick on most MDO.
>
> OOPS! should have been 1/16th
>
>
>


Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In bolger@y..., "Richard Barnes" <oakbowerybarnes@e...> wrote:
>
> but it can;t really soak up a ton of anything because the paper
layer is less than a 1/6th thick on most MDO.
>
> OOPS! should have been 1/16th
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Bell" <jmbell@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2002 7:10 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: MDO


| My current boat is 2 sided MDO. The bottom is glass sheathed for abrasion
| resistance. The rest of the boat is just primed and painted. She still
looks
| good.
|
| I would not bother epoxying MDO myself. It won't add enough benefit to be
| worth the trouble. MDO is a good way to go.
|
| JB
|
|
| ----- Original Message -----
| From: "Curtis Barrow" <cbarrow@...>
| To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
| Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2002 12:58 PM
| Subject: [bolger] Re: MDO
|
|
| | I hope to build an Oldshoe soon. Now as I understand it I can use MDO
and
| not have to put epoxy and cloth on it, and it will last for years. You
just
| paint the paper side?
| |
| | That is with two sided MDO...or should I epoxy both sides, then paint?
| |
| | Hmmmm. Maybe a brief list of the benefits and techniques of MDO could
be
| writen (or is there already on in the files?)?
| |
| | Curtis in /\/\onTana! {=-{>
| |
| |
| |
| | > Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 03:12:27 -0600
| | > From: "Richard Barnes" <oakbowerybarnes@...>
| | > Subject: Re: Re: MDO
| | >
| | > MDO would be a wonderful option for any 3/8" or 1/2" application,
since
| US MDO is doug. fir . I used one sided MDO ( overlay one side only) and
| just glassed the outside; leaving the MDO side on the interior with epoxy
| and paint only. Worked well and less expensive than other options.
| | >
| | > It is good to remember that the natural decay resistance of fir is
| higher than some of the species used to make the foreign marine plys.
| Somewhere on the web there is a site that lists these characteristics.
| Tracey O'Brien suggests using the fir in the hull and okuume for the
cabins
| and superstructures to keep the weight concentrated in the hull.
| | >
| | > Richard
| |
| |
| | Bolger rules!!!
| | - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
| | - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
| | - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
| | - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
| 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
| | - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
| | - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
| |
| | Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
| |
| |
|
|
|
| Bolger rules!!!
| - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
| - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
| - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
| - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
| - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
| - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
|
| Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
|


Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In bolger@y..., Vince and Mary Ann Chew <vachew@v...> wrote:
> I have 74 sheets of 1/2" MDO in my Dakota plus 14 sheets of 3/8"
MDO. All of
> the exterior except the upper cabin sides are sheathed with glass
in epoxy.
> The interior of the lower hull and the upper cabin sides are coated
with
> epoxy. The upper interior and ceiling are not coated -- just
painted with
> acrylic paint.
>
> My experience, using an adhesive roller, is that the first coat of
epoxy
> soaks into the paper surface rapidly. I apply additional coats
before the
> previous ones cure until I get a uniform shiney appearance. Also, I
found
> that the first coat of paint practically disappeared into the paper
surface
> on the uncoated interior. That could be the fault of the brand of
paint I
> used (Graham Ceramic Acrylic), but since it was paid for, I kept
using it.
> It looks good now that it has three coats.
>
> I have left unpainted scraps of MDO in an always wet drain ditch
near my
> shop. It hasn't swelled or delaminated after several months. I would
> consider just paint alone if I was building a small boat that would
not be
> kept in the water between uses.
>
> Vince Chew

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Bell" <jmbell@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2002 7:10 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: MDO


| My current boat is 2 sided MDO. The bottom is glass sheathed for abrasion
| resistance. The rest of the boat is just primed and painted. She still
looks
| good.
|
| I would not bother epoxying MDO myself. It won't add enough benefit to be
| worth the trouble. MDO is a good way to go.
|
| JB
|
|
| ----- Original Message -----
| From: "Curtis Barrow" <cbarrow@...>
| To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
| Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2002 12:58 PM
| Subject: [bolger] Re: MDO
|
|
| | I hope to build an Oldshoe soon. Now as I understand it I can use MDO
and
| not have to put epoxy and cloth on it, and it will last for years. You
just
| paint the paper side?
| |
| | That is with two sided MDO...or should I epoxy both sides, then paint?
| |
| | Hmmmm. Maybe a brief list of the benefits and techniques of MDO could
be
| writen (or is there already on in the files?)?
| |
| | Curtis in /\/\onTana! {=-{>
| |
| |
| |
| | > Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 03:12:27 -0600
| | > From: "Richard Barnes" <oakbowerybarnes@...>
| | > Subject: Re: Re: MDO
| | >
| | > MDO would be a wonderful option for any 3/8" or 1/2" application,
since
| US MDO is doug. fir . I used one sided MDO ( overlay one side only) and
| just glassed the outside; leaving the MDO side on the interior with epoxy
| and paint only. Worked well and less expensive than other options.
| | >
| | > It is good to remember that the natural decay resistance of fir is
| higher than some of the species used to make the foreign marine plys.
| Somewhere on the web there is a site that lists these characteristics.
| Tracey O'Brien suggests using the fir in the hull and okuume for the
cabins
| and superstructures to keep the weight concentrated in the hull.
| | >
| | > Richard
| |
| |
| | Bolger rules!!!
| | - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
| | - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
| | - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
| | - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
| 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
| | - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
| | - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
| |
| | Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
| |
| |
|
|
|
| Bolger rules!!!
| - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
| - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
| - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
| - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
| - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
| - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
|
| Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
|

----- Original Message -----
From: "lulalake_1999" <lulalake_1999@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2002 9:32 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: MDO


| Hi JB
|
| Could you detail the boat a bit, size, etc. and maybe a pic or two?
|
| Thanks
|
| jules
|
|
| Bolger rules!!!
| - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
| - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
| - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
| - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
| - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
| - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
|
| Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
|

----- Original Message -----
From: "Curtis Barrow" <cbarrow@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2002 12:58 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: MDO


| I hope to build an Oldshoe soon. Now as I understand it I can use MDO and
not have to put epoxy and cloth on it, and it will last for years. You just
paint the paper side?
|
| That is with two sided MDO...or should I epoxy both sides, then paint?
|
| Hmmmm. Maybe a brief list of the benefits and techniques of MDO could be
writen (or is there already on in the files?)?
|
| Curtis in /\/\onTana! {=-{>
|
|
|
| > Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 03:12:27 -0600
| > From: "Richard Barnes" <oakbowerybarnes@...>
| > Subject: Re: Re: MDO
| >
| > MDO would be a wonderful option for any 3/8" or 1/2" application, since
US MDO is doug. fir . I used one sided MDO ( overlay one side only) and
just glassed the outside; leaving the MDO side on the interior with epoxy
and paint only. Worked well and less expensive than other options.
| >
| > It is good to remember that the natural decay resistance of fir is
higher than some of the species used to make the foreign marine plys.
Somewhere on the web there is a site that lists these characteristics.
Tracey O'Brien suggests using the fir in the hull and okuume for the cabins
and superstructures to keep the weight concentrated in the hull.
| >
| > Richard
|
|
| Bolger rules!!!
| - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
| - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
| - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
| - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
| - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
| - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
|
| Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
|

> > You won't use very much epoxy coating this stuff, because it can't
> soak up any on the MDO faces.
>
> hmmm. Never used it myself, so I can't say, but I do remember that
> some post somewhere that said it soaked up a lot of epoxy. hmmm.
>
>
> PHV
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
> Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

> You won't use very much epoxy coating this stuff, because it can't

----- Original Message -----
From: Curtis Barrow
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2002 11:58 AM
Subject: [bolger] Re: MDO


I hope to build an Oldshoe soon. Now as I understand it I can use MDO and not have to put epoxy and cloth on it, and it will last for years. You just paint the paper side?

That is with two sided MDO...or should I epoxy both sides, then paint?

Hmmmm. Maybe a brief list of the benefits and techniques of MDO could be writen (or is there already on in the files?)?

Curtis in /\/\onTana! {=-{>



> Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 03:12:27 -0600
> From: "Richard Barnes" <oakbowerybarnes@...>
> Subject: Re: Re: MDO
>
> MDO would be a wonderful option for any 3/8" or 1/2" application, since US MDO is doug. fir . I used one sided MDO ( overlay one side only) and just glassed the outside; leaving the MDO side on the interior with epoxy and paint only. Worked well and less expensive than other options.
>
> It is good to remember that the natural decay resistance of fir is higher than some of the species used to make the foreign marine plys. Somewhere on the web there is a site that lists these characteristics. Tracey O'Brien suggests using the fir in the hull and okuume for the cabins and superstructures to keep the weight concentrated in the hull.
>
> Richard


Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Curtis Barrow" <cbarrow@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2002 11:58 AM
Subject: [bolger] Re: MDO


| I hope to build an Oldshoe soon. Now as I understand it I can use MDO and
not have to put epoxy and cloth on it, and it will last for years. You just
paint the paper side?
|
| That is with two sided MDO...or should I epoxy both sides, then paint?
|
| Hmmmm. Maybe a brief list of the benefits and techniques of MDO could be
writen (or is there already on in the files?)?
|
| Curtis in /\/\onTana! {=-{>
|
|
|
| > Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 03:12:27 -0600
| > From: "Richard Barnes" <oakbowerybarnes@...>
| > Subject: Re: Re: MDO
| >
| > MDO would be a wonderful option for any 3/8" or 1/2" application, since
US MDO is doug. fir . I used one sided MDO ( overlay one side only) and
just glassed the outside; leaving the MDO side on the interior with epoxy
and paint only. Worked well and less expensive than other options.
| >
| > It is good to remember that the natural decay resistance of fir is
higher than some of the species used to make the foreign marine plys.
Somewhere on the web there is a site that lists these characteristics.
Tracey O'Brien suggests using the fir in the hull and okuume for the cabins
and superstructures to keep the weight concentrated in the hull.
| >
| > Richard
|
|
| Bolger rules!!!
| - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
| - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
| - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
| - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
| - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
| - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
|
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|
|

> Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 03:12:27 -0600
> From: "Richard Barnes" <oakbowerybarnes@...>
> Subject: Re: Re: MDO
>
> MDO would be a wonderful option for any 3/8" or 1/2" application, since US MDO is doug. fir . I used one sided MDO ( overlay one side only) and just glassed the outside; leaving the MDO side on the interior with epoxy and paint only. Worked well and less expensive than other options.
>
> It is good to remember that the natural decay resistance of fir is higher than some of the species used to make the foreign marine plys. Somewhere on the web there is a site that lists these characteristics. Tracey O'Brien suggests using the fir in the hull and okuume for the cabins and superstructures to keep the weight concentrated in the hull.
>
> Richard

--- In bolger@y..., richard@s... wrote:
> Pine checks? Thought only fir did that.
> --- In bolger@y..., cadbury@s... wrote:
> >
> > I am inclined to stick with the BC pine for the next boat.
> > Just prime it, paint it, and let it check. Put the extra
> > money into my 401K.
> >
> >
> > Max

--- In bolger@y..., Vince and Mary Ann Chew <vachew@f...> wrote:

> No, I don't think the MDO soaks up significantly more epoxy than
> plywood. I haven't actually done any real accurate comparisons, but
it
> seems like a batch of resin covers about the same area on the paper
side
> as it does on the plain side. I have, however, tested resistance to
> delaminating. I applied a strip of 10 oz.cloth to a test scrap of
MDO
> leaving enough cloth to grab with both hands and pull while
standing on
> the piece. After curing several days, it pulled a layer of ply off
> rather than the cloth or paper.
>
> Vince Chew

> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Bell [mailto:jmbell@...]
> Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2001 8:19 AM
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: MDO
>
>
> Yes, pine will check if it's not sheathed. The inside of my BC
> pine dory has
> some checking; the outside sheathed with 6 oz. glass is fine. The checking
> of the pine does not appear to be as bad as the AC fir used on my
> Windsprint. My feeling is that any ply made from rotary cut
> veneer is going
> to be prone to checking.
>
> JB
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <richard@...>
> To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2001 1:59 AM
> Subject: [bolger] Re: MDO
>
>
> | Pine checks? Thought only fir did that.
> | --- In bolger@y..., cadbury@s... wrote:
> | >
> | > I am inclined to stick with the BC pine for the next boat.
> | > Just prime it, paint it, and let it check. Put the extra
> | > money into my 401K.
> | >
> | >
> | > Max
> |
> |
> |
> | Bolger rules!!!
> | - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> | - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> | - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> | - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
> 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> | - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> |
> | Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> |
> |
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----
From: <richard@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2001 1:59 AM
Subject: [bolger] Re: MDO


| Pine checks? Thought only fir did that.
| --- In bolger@y..., cadbury@s... wrote:
| >
| > I am inclined to stick with the BC pine for the next boat.
| > Just prime it, paint it, and let it check. Put the extra
| > money into my 401K.
| >
| >
| > Max
|
|
|
| Bolger rules!!!
| - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
| - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
| - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
| - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
| - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
|
| Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
|

--- In bolger@y..., cadbury@s... wrote:
>
> I am inclined to stick with the BC pine for the next boat.
> Just prime it, paint it, and let it check. Put the extra
> money into my 401K.
>
>
> Max

----- Original Message -----
From: "James Fuller" <james@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 7:05 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] MDO


| Question,
|
| My local lumber yard has what he calls MDO in 3/8" x
| 4 x 8 sheets. It has off white paper on both sides. When
| I think of kraft paper I think of the light brown color. Is the white
kraft
| paper?
|
| Thanks.
|
| James
|
| ----- Original Message -----
| From: <darus@...>
| To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
| Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 2:39 PM
| Subject: Re: [bolger] MDO
|
|
| > Thank you for your prompt response.
| >
| > Might MDO be found at my local home center, or is it more specialized?
| >
| > > MDO stands for Medium Density Overlay. It is an
| > > exterior plywood that has a phenolic resin impregnated
| > > heavy kraft paper facing on one or both sides. It was
| > > developed for road signs and the like. It is good
| > > stuff.
| >
| > Bolger rules!!!
| > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
| > - no flogging dead horses
| > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
| > - stay on topic and punctuate
| > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
| > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
| 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
| >
| >
| > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
| >
| >
| >
|
|
| Bolger rules!!!
| - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
| - no flogging dead horses
| - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
| - stay on topic and punctuate
| - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
| - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
|
|
| Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
|

----- Original Message -----
From: <darus@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 2:39 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] MDO


> Thank you for your prompt response.
>
> Might MDO be found at my local home center, or is it more specialized?
>
> > MDO stands for Medium Density Overlay. It is an
> > exterior plywood that has a phenolic resin impregnated
> > heavy kraft paper facing on one or both sides. It was
> > developed for road signs and the like. It is good
> > stuff.
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> - no flogging dead horses
> - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> - stay on topic and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>