Re: [bolger] Re: Singlehanding a dipping lugger??
I don't want to waste a lot of your time but what if; you had two mast
steps, one on either side( I saw in "30 Odd...), an alum tube or pipe
mast, a small traveler for the tack. Drop the yard on deck, slack
halyard, pick up the mast and move it to the other side(small boat
probably) over the yard, raise the yard and sail again? Clyde PS maybe an
electric trolling motor could bring you to the right position before you
raise the sail on the new tack?
"MA Farrell, G Blankenship" wrote:
steps, one on either side( I saw in "30 Odd...), an alum tube or pipe
mast, a small traveler for the tack. Drop the yard on deck, slack
halyard, pick up the mast and move it to the other side(small boat
probably) over the yard, raise the yard and sail again? Clyde PS maybe an
electric trolling motor could bring you to the right position before you
raise the sail on the new tack?
"MA Farrell, G Blankenship" wrote:
> Don:
> There are three ways to tack a dipping lugger:
>
> 1) traditional, where you lower the sail to the deck, carry it around
> the mast, and raise it.
>
> 2) the newer Bolger method which has a line (a yard topping lift?)
> about two thirds of the way back on the yard. The halyard is slacked
> until the yard is vertical, the tack is carried around the mast and
> the sail is hoisted again.
>
> 3) use two sails, one on each side of the mast. To tack, lower one and
> raise the other.
>
> The latter is what Bolger specified for my boat (the sails were 385
In a message dated 01/26/2001 9:<BR04:<BR12 PM
Eastern Standard ,gbship@...writes:> Again if you look at the
relevant chapters in 100 Small Boat Rigs, the
as you affirm...only the boom needs to be moved.
Thnaks for the good info. I will certainly set up the Scram first as a
balance lug, but I can't wait to se how she dips ;-)
Cheers/Don
Eastern Standard ,gbship@...writes:> Again if you look at the
relevant chapters in 100 Small Boat Rigs, the
> halyard seems to attach to the same point on the dipping and balancedYeah, I'd measured that and wondered the same thing. I expected that it was
> yards, but the foot is farther forward on the dipping rig. I never did
> get to ask Bolger if that was an accident in drafting or really meant
> something. in my case, it did mean something.
>
as you affirm...only the boom needs to be moved.
Thnaks for the good info. I will certainly set up the Scram first as a
balance lug, but I can't wait to se how she dips ;-)
Cheers/Don
--- In bolger@y..., StepHydro@a... wrote:
I didn't change the belaying point on the yard at all, all the fore
and aft testing was done by shifting the boom alone. It wasn't enough
that it did anything too weird, although sliding the foot aft did
increase boom clearance in the cockpit a bit -- always a good thing.
Again if you look at the relevant chapters in 100 Small Boat Rigs, the
halyard seems to attach to the same point on the dipping and balanced
yards, but the foot is farther forward on the dipping rig. I never did
get to ask Bolger if that was an accident in drafting or really meant
something. in my case, it did mean something.
My sailing was done both with crew and singlehanded, although I
always use an autopilot when singlehanding. There was a crew along
when the new Bolger method was tested, but his only job was to keep
the time as I wanted to see how long it took me to do it singlehanded.
I think on your boat the tacking could be done fairly quickly, perhaps
as little as 30 seconds and certainly would be great fun....
Gary
> Did you have to change the belaying point on the halyard to go fromdipping
> to balance? IOW, is it as easy as bending on a boom and setting theboom
> attachment point/downhaul so that less of the sail is for'd themast?
>of
> Please clarify for me...in your screed, were you talking exclusively
> singlehanding ?Don:
>
> Cheers/Don
I didn't change the belaying point on the yard at all, all the fore
and aft testing was done by shifting the boom alone. It wasn't enough
that it did anything too weird, although sliding the foot aft did
increase boom clearance in the cockpit a bit -- always a good thing.
Again if you look at the relevant chapters in 100 Small Boat Rigs, the
halyard seems to attach to the same point on the dipping and balanced
yards, but the foot is farther forward on the dipping rig. I never did
get to ask Bolger if that was an accident in drafting or really meant
something. in my case, it did mean something.
My sailing was done both with crew and singlehanded, although I
always use an autopilot when singlehanding. There was a crew along
when the new Bolger method was tested, but his only job was to keep
the time as I wanted to see how long it took me to do it singlehanded.
I think on your boat the tacking could be done fairly quickly, perhaps
as little as 30 seconds and certainly would be great fun....
Gary
Thanks for the good info, Gary. This Scram Pram has a sail well under 200
ft^2, so the effort will be less than with yours.
Did you have to change the belaying point on the halyard to go from dipping
to balance? IOW, is it as easy as bending on a boom and setting the boom
attachment point/downhaul so that less of the sail is for'd the mast?
Please clarify for me...in your screed, were you talking exclusively of
singlehanding ?
Cheers/Don
ft^2, so the effort will be less than with yours.
Did you have to change the belaying point on the halyard to go from dipping
to balance? IOW, is it as easy as bending on a boom and setting the boom
attachment point/downhaul so that less of the sail is for'd the mast?
Please clarify for me...in your screed, were you talking exclusively of
singlehanding ?
Cheers/Don
Don:
There are three ways to tack a dipping lugger:
1) traditional, where you lower the sail to the deck, carry it around
the mast, and raise it.
2) the newer Bolger method which has a line (a yard topping lift?)
about two thirds of the way back on the yard. The halyard is slacked
until the yard is vertical, the tack is carried around the mast and
the sail is hoisted again.
3) use two sails, one on each side of the mast. To tack, lower one and
raise the other.
The latter is what Bolger specified for my boat (the sails were 385
square foot each) and I also experimented with method 2. Bolger
specified a traveler for the tack so it could be hauled to windward to
give a better sheeting angle. The best way to tack with two sails was
to throw over the tiller and haul the tack of the now windward sail up
to the weather rail (both tacks were were attached to the car) as the
boat came over. Raise the now-leeward sail, and then drop the windward
sail.
When experimenting with method 2, I rigged lines designed to haul the
tack around the mast and to the windward rail. Unfortunately, it never
quite worked as the sail always got bunched up in the narrow space
behand the mast and forward side of the cabin. My best tacking time
with either method 2 or 3 was about 3 1/2 minutes, but remember, this
was a big sail. My rule of thumb is I wouldn't try this if you need a
winch to raise the sail (I do), it will just take to long. If you can
hand-over-hand it, it should be a lot easier, mostly because the sail
will be a lot smaller and things will go faster.
Some random thoughts that apply to either dipping or balanced luggers:
1) there are two ways of attaching the yard to the mast. The more
common is a rope parrel. On my boat, Bolger specified a wire jackstay
that runs up the side of the mast A short line spliced around a metal
thumble attaches the yard to the jackstay. I've used both, the
jackstay is far superior because it never jams, and the sail can be
raised or lowered on any point of sail. I had problems with the parrel
sticking.
2) With either a dipping or balanced lugger, once you ease the
halyard, the end of the yard drops first and tries to bean you.
Similarly, it swings like a club while being raised. If you use method
2, the topping lift line gives you a way to control the aft end of the
yard. On my boat, Bolger specified a line that runs from the front of
the yard through a block on deck, just forward of where the yard
would be when the sail is lowered. The line runs back to the cockpit,
along with the halyard. This line very effectively controls the yard
(the halyard become a pivot point; pulling on the line brings the
front of the yard down and levers the aft end higher). Of the two, I
prefer the latter method, although that also might be different with a
smaller sail.
3) In my opinion, the dipping lugger is a prettier sail. My impression
is the dipping lug is slightly better on the wind, there is no
difference reaching, and the balanced is better downwind. Indeed, you
will likely need to pole out the foot of the dipping lug when going
downwind (I was actually building such a pole for my boat based on my
experiences when it occured to me it would be eaiser to make it a few
feet longer and turn it into a boom...). The balanced lug is rigged so
it could be reefed from the cockpit; that wasn't possible with the
dipping lug.
One final thought. Get Bolger's 100 Small Boat Rigs and study the
dipping and balanced lug chapters carefully. When I made the switch,
the boat seemed dead on the wind at first with the balanced rig and I
noted in the book that the foot of the dipping lug is shown extending
farther forward of the mast that the balanced rig. Moving the boom aft
cured the sluggishness. Since it had lee to neutral helm on the wind
with the dipping lug, moving the foot aft added some weather helm,
which may account for some of the improvement.
I never used the motor when tacking, and the boat always came to a
dead stop or nearly so when I tacked (a dipping lug on the wrong side
of the mast is very slow). Two or three tacks on a 95-degree north
Florida day was about all I could take. I suppose I'll try the dipping
version again just for nostalgia, but have no urge to convert back. As
a matter of fact, I think the balanced lug has all the highly touted
advantages of the chinese lug, with a much better shape to boot...
Gary Blankenship
Tallahassee, FL
There are three ways to tack a dipping lugger:
1) traditional, where you lower the sail to the deck, carry it around
the mast, and raise it.
2) the newer Bolger method which has a line (a yard topping lift?)
about two thirds of the way back on the yard. The halyard is slacked
until the yard is vertical, the tack is carried around the mast and
the sail is hoisted again.
3) use two sails, one on each side of the mast. To tack, lower one and
raise the other.
The latter is what Bolger specified for my boat (the sails were 385
square foot each) and I also experimented with method 2. Bolger
specified a traveler for the tack so it could be hauled to windward to
give a better sheeting angle. The best way to tack with two sails was
to throw over the tiller and haul the tack of the now windward sail up
to the weather rail (both tacks were were attached to the car) as the
boat came over. Raise the now-leeward sail, and then drop the windward
sail.
When experimenting with method 2, I rigged lines designed to haul the
tack around the mast and to the windward rail. Unfortunately, it never
quite worked as the sail always got bunched up in the narrow space
behand the mast and forward side of the cabin. My best tacking time
with either method 2 or 3 was about 3 1/2 minutes, but remember, this
was a big sail. My rule of thumb is I wouldn't try this if you need a
winch to raise the sail (I do), it will just take to long. If you can
hand-over-hand it, it should be a lot easier, mostly because the sail
will be a lot smaller and things will go faster.
Some random thoughts that apply to either dipping or balanced luggers:
1) there are two ways of attaching the yard to the mast. The more
common is a rope parrel. On my boat, Bolger specified a wire jackstay
that runs up the side of the mast A short line spliced around a metal
thumble attaches the yard to the jackstay. I've used both, the
jackstay is far superior because it never jams, and the sail can be
raised or lowered on any point of sail. I had problems with the parrel
sticking.
2) With either a dipping or balanced lugger, once you ease the
halyard, the end of the yard drops first and tries to bean you.
Similarly, it swings like a club while being raised. If you use method
2, the topping lift line gives you a way to control the aft end of the
yard. On my boat, Bolger specified a line that runs from the front of
the yard through a block on deck, just forward of where the yard
would be when the sail is lowered. The line runs back to the cockpit,
along with the halyard. This line very effectively controls the yard
(the halyard become a pivot point; pulling on the line brings the
front of the yard down and levers the aft end higher). Of the two, I
prefer the latter method, although that also might be different with a
smaller sail.
3) In my opinion, the dipping lugger is a prettier sail. My impression
is the dipping lug is slightly better on the wind, there is no
difference reaching, and the balanced is better downwind. Indeed, you
will likely need to pole out the foot of the dipping lug when going
downwind (I was actually building such a pole for my boat based on my
experiences when it occured to me it would be eaiser to make it a few
feet longer and turn it into a boom...). The balanced lug is rigged so
it could be reefed from the cockpit; that wasn't possible with the
dipping lug.
One final thought. Get Bolger's 100 Small Boat Rigs and study the
dipping and balanced lug chapters carefully. When I made the switch,
the boat seemed dead on the wind at first with the balanced rig and I
noted in the book that the foot of the dipping lug is shown extending
farther forward of the mast that the balanced rig. Moving the boom aft
cured the sluggishness. Since it had lee to neutral helm on the wind
with the dipping lug, moving the foot aft added some weather helm,
which may account for some of the improvement.
I never used the motor when tacking, and the boat always came to a
dead stop or nearly so when I tacked (a dipping lug on the wrong side
of the mast is very slow). Two or three tacks on a 95-degree north
Florida day was about all I could take. I suppose I'll try the dipping
version again just for nostalgia, but have no urge to convert back. As
a matter of fact, I think the balanced lug has all the highly touted
advantages of the chinese lug, with a much better shape to boot...
Gary Blankenship
Tallahassee, FL
Andy,
Thanks for the rundown on your method. It appears that it requires good
helmspersonship and good seapersonship to manage it :-)
I have been drawing sailplans for the Scram that appear to be as useful
rigged as a balance lug or a dipping lug. I was surprised to find that the
shapes were not quite the same :-)
Cheers/Don
Thanks for the rundown on your method. It appears that it requires good
helmspersonship and good seapersonship to manage it :-)
I have been drawing sailplans for the Scram that appear to be as useful
rigged as a balance lug or a dipping lug. I was surprised to find that the
shapes were not quite the same :-)
Cheers/Don
I don't know if it's reliable, but here is how I do it on my sailing
canoe.
To tack, I dip the yard around the back of the mast. First, I put
the helm over, let the sheet out as the sail luffs and go forward to
release the halyard a bit. Then I unsnap the tack pendant from the
old weather gunnel and pull down on the luff of the sail to manhandle
(personhandle?)the yard to the new lee side of the mast. I then snap
the tack pendant to the new weather gunnel and haul up on the
halyard. I then go back to snap the sheet block to the new lee
gunnel and sheet it in.
I cannot use a conventional parrel because it gets too twisted.
Instead, I attach a very short line from the yard to a loose rope
grommet.
1 can usually make it to the new tack at about the time I sheet in
the sail. This is about impossible to do without swimming in
anything over a breeze, and so I usually rig a standing lug. If I am
going to be on the same tack for any length of time I rig it as a
dipping lug. I also frequently have to paddle through to the new
tack if the breeze is not strong enough.
I tried having two lines for the tack pendant, sort of like a jib,
but I found that it was easier just to shift the line via a snap to
the new weather gunnel. I keep telling myself to rig a treveler for
the sheet.
I jibe, out of laziness, without dipping the yard. I do need to go
forward to shift the tack pendant to the new weather gunnel. The
mast does foul the sail on the bad tack, but I figure it does no real
harm when running. If I did dip the yard during a jibe,I imagine
that it would be easier to bring the yard around the front of the
mast. Sometimes I just turn into the wind and tack around rather
than jibe.
I have spent a lot of time swimming with this rig. It really helps
to have a second set of hands to stay back with the sheet. I have to
say that it's worth geeting wet, though. The rig seems to generate
real lift and makes a beautiful airfoil during that brief, shining
moment when everything is going well.
Regards
Andy Farquhar
canoe.
To tack, I dip the yard around the back of the mast. First, I put
the helm over, let the sheet out as the sail luffs and go forward to
release the halyard a bit. Then I unsnap the tack pendant from the
old weather gunnel and pull down on the luff of the sail to manhandle
(personhandle?)the yard to the new lee side of the mast. I then snap
the tack pendant to the new weather gunnel and haul up on the
halyard. I then go back to snap the sheet block to the new lee
gunnel and sheet it in.
I cannot use a conventional parrel because it gets too twisted.
Instead, I attach a very short line from the yard to a loose rope
grommet.
1 can usually make it to the new tack at about the time I sheet in
the sail. This is about impossible to do without swimming in
anything over a breeze, and so I usually rig a standing lug. If I am
going to be on the same tack for any length of time I rig it as a
dipping lug. I also frequently have to paddle through to the new
tack if the breeze is not strong enough.
I tried having two lines for the tack pendant, sort of like a jib,
but I found that it was easier just to shift the line via a snap to
the new weather gunnel. I keep telling myself to rig a treveler for
the sheet.
I jibe, out of laziness, without dipping the yard. I do need to go
forward to shift the tack pendant to the new weather gunnel. The
mast does foul the sail on the bad tack, but I figure it does no real
harm when running. If I did dip the yard during a jibe,I imagine
that it would be easier to bring the yard around the front of the
mast. Sometimes I just turn into the wind and tack around rather
than jibe.
I have spent a lot of time swimming with this rig. It really helps
to have a second set of hands to stay back with the sheet. I have to
say that it's worth geeting wet, though. The rig seems to generate
real lift and makes a beautiful airfoil during that brief, shining
moment when everything is going well.
Regards
Andy Farquhar
Bolger's second halyard leaves the yard hanging vertically, behind the mast while
you change the clew but on larger boats, I think he plans on running the motor
while doing this. Clyde PS I also want a dipping lug someday.
StepHydro@...wrote:
you change the clew but on larger boats, I think he plans on running the motor
while doing this. Clyde PS I also want a dipping lug someday.
StepHydro@...wrote:
> Has anyone worked out a reliable procedure for singlehanding a dipping lug?
> I've thought about it a bit, but not having sailed one (I want to :-) I am
> not certain if my ideas are valid.
>
> I'm thinking about tacking here...I expect that jibing would be easier, but
> with roughly the same steps. On one tack, hard alee and as she swings through
> the wind, bring the tiller somewhere toward neutral as you let go the halyard
> (brought close to helm) and lock the tiller in the position found to be best.
> Go forward, remove the clew line and bring it around the mast, bring the yard
> around the mast. Return to the helm and hoist the sail, adjust the tiller and
> lock it. Bowse the sail and pick up the tiller.
>
> None of the above accounts for the behavior of the sail as it is being
> lowered and hoist. That is something that might kill the entire idea.
>
> My Michalak Scram Pram is set up for a balance lug, and I want to try it with
> a dipper. Of course, I'll do it with a crew, but I'd like to be able to
> singlehand. The obvious solution is torig it balance when singlehanded or
> lazy, dipping when adventure is in mind. However, the romantic appeal of the
> dipper makes me want to idealize the boat and sail for that configuration if
> it performs as I want.
>
> TIA/Step
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> - no flogging dead horses
> - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> - stay on topic and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
Has anyone worked out a reliable procedure for singlehanding a dipping lug?
I've thought about it a bit, but not having sailed one (I want to :-) I am
not certain if my ideas are valid.
I'm thinking about tacking here...I expect that jibing would be easier, but
with roughly the same steps. On one tack, hard alee and as she swings through
the wind, bring the tiller somewhere toward neutral as you let go the halyard
(brought close to helm) and lock the tiller in the position found to be best.
Go forward, remove the clew line and bring it around the mast, bring the yard
around the mast. Return to the helm and hoist the sail, adjust the tiller and
lock it. Bowse the sail and pick up the tiller.
None of the above accounts for the behavior of the sail as it is being
lowered and hoist. That is something that might kill the entire idea.
My Michalak Scram Pram is set up for a balance lug, and I want to try it with
a dipper. Of course, I'll do it with a crew, but I'd like to be able to
singlehand. The obvious solution is torig it balance when singlehanded or
lazy, dipping when adventure is in mind. However, the romantic appeal of the
dipper makes me want to idealize the boat and sail for that configuration if
it performs as I want.
TIA/Step
I've thought about it a bit, but not having sailed one (I want to :-) I am
not certain if my ideas are valid.
I'm thinking about tacking here...I expect that jibing would be easier, but
with roughly the same steps. On one tack, hard alee and as she swings through
the wind, bring the tiller somewhere toward neutral as you let go the halyard
(brought close to helm) and lock the tiller in the position found to be best.
Go forward, remove the clew line and bring it around the mast, bring the yard
around the mast. Return to the helm and hoist the sail, adjust the tiller and
lock it. Bowse the sail and pick up the tiller.
None of the above accounts for the behavior of the sail as it is being
lowered and hoist. That is something that might kill the entire idea.
My Michalak Scram Pram is set up for a balance lug, and I want to try it with
a dipper. Of course, I'll do it with a crew, but I'd like to be able to
singlehand. The obvious solution is torig it balance when singlehanded or
lazy, dipping when adventure is in mind. However, the romantic appeal of the
dipper makes me want to idealize the boat and sail for that configuration if
it performs as I want.
TIA/Step