Re: [bolger] wyoming
Hank:
I built a Tennessee and enjoyed it very much. I do not know of any Wyomings
in the states, but there is at least one in Oz. Here is the URL:
http://www.duckflat-woodenboats.com.au/boat%20pics/gallery%20original.html
Chuck Leinweber
Duckworks Magazine
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com
I built a Tennessee and enjoyed it very much. I do not know of any Wyomings
in the states, but there is at least one in Oz. Here is the URL:
http://www.duckflat-woodenboats.com.au/boat%20pics/gallery%20original.html
Chuck Leinweber
Duckworks Magazine
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com
----- Original Message -----
From: henry 'hank' hankal <hhankal@...>
To: <bolger@...>
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 9:01 AM
Subject: [bolger] wyoming
> greetings fm tennessee..having built 'gypsy' and completed the hull on
> a modified 'sneakeasy', i'm already dreaming of a live-aboard for the
> lakes of east tn. i've seen phils sketches for a 2x version of
> sneakeasy which i think he calls 'wyoming'. does anyone know of any
> executions of this design? my sneakeasy is hull modified to receive a
> jet-ski drive train- does anyone know of anyone else who has done this-
> perhaps i could get a few pointers. best, hank
>
>
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greetings fm tennessee..having built 'gypsy' and completed the hull on
a modified 'sneakeasy', i'm already dreaming of a live-aboard for the
lakes of east tn. i've seen phils sketches for a 2x version of
sneakeasy which i think he calls 'wyoming'. does anyone know of any
executions of this design? my sneakeasy is hull modified to receive a
jet-ski drive train- does anyone know of anyone else who has done this-
perhaps i could get a few pointers. best, hank
a modified 'sneakeasy', i'm already dreaming of a live-aboard for the
lakes of east tn. i've seen phils sketches for a 2x version of
sneakeasy which i think he calls 'wyoming'. does anyone know of any
executions of this design? my sneakeasy is hull modified to receive a
jet-ski drive train- does anyone know of anyone else who has done this-
perhaps i could get a few pointers. best, hank
BO>I didn't mean to disparage Duckflats plans or construction; I just have no
BO>personal experience. In general, I think stock plans are a great bargain -
BO>I'm "eyeball engineering" the little 12-footer I'm building, and already I
BO>see a couple of areas that would be better if a little more design time was
BO>expended.
BO>Don Hodges,
Don, I didn't take it as a disparagement, sorry if it sounded a bit that
way.
I'm more concerned with the broader point, that the Bolger plans most of
us deal with (ie ex Payson, CSD/CSB) are ridiculously cheap. Other
Bolger plans are now more aligned to industry levels given the followup
service implicit. This makes them look hideously expensive to all us
cheapskates; in fact they're not if the real cost of building the boat
from them is taken into account.
Interesting to match real costs of building against costs of plans, eg
Gregg C's Light Schooner shopping list vs cost of plans. Big boats are
a big investment. What are plans worth?
Wasn't it Bernie Wolfard who once issued words to the effect that buyers
of Bolger plans are so cheap they'd refuse a direct phone line to God if
it cost more than a nickel?
Tim & Flying Tadpole
BO>------------------------------------------------------------------------
BO>Was the salesman clueless? Productopia has the answers.
BO>http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/1702
BO>-- Check out your group's private Chat room
BO>--http://www.egroups.com/ChatPage?listName=bolger&m=1
BO>personal experience. In general, I think stock plans are a great bargain -
BO>I'm "eyeball engineering" the little 12-footer I'm building, and already I
BO>see a couple of areas that would be better if a little more design time was
BO>expended.
BO>Don Hodges,
Don, I didn't take it as a disparagement, sorry if it sounded a bit that
way.
I'm more concerned with the broader point, that the Bolger plans most of
us deal with (ie ex Payson, CSD/CSB) are ridiculously cheap. Other
Bolger plans are now more aligned to industry levels given the followup
service implicit. This makes them look hideously expensive to all us
cheapskates; in fact they're not if the real cost of building the boat
from them is taken into account.
Interesting to match real costs of building against costs of plans, eg
Gregg C's Light Schooner shopping list vs cost of plans. Big boats are
a big investment. What are plans worth?
Wasn't it Bernie Wolfard who once issued words to the effect that buyers
of Bolger plans are so cheap they'd refuse a direct phone line to God if
it cost more than a nickel?
Tim & Flying Tadpole
BO>------------------------------------------------------------------------
BO>Was the salesman clueless? Productopia has the answers.
BO>http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/1702
BO>-- Check out your group's private Chat room
BO>--http://www.egroups.com/ChatPage?listName=bolger&m=1
BO>The 'sale' posting from CSD shows Wyoming plans at $150 or less. The
BO>duck plans seem to be A$900. Any idea why the big difference?
First off, CSD regrettably is gone, replaced by CSB which doesn't appear
to ship Wyoming plans. Plans for the big boats from PB&F now bear more
relation to reality than they once did; eg the plan cost for an AS29 is
now approaching about 1% of the (home)building cost. Reason of course is
that plan purchase also purchases consulting backup services. So the
Bolger plans themselves are not in the below $100 category to begin
with. The Bolger plans are for a simple utilitarian vessel.
Second, the Duck Flat Wyoming/Mundoo package is for a fully developed
liveaboard motor cruiser for river use. Verandahs, standing headroom in
the main saloon, double beds, stowage for your Harley etc. For a 50ft
vessel, not just small enhancements or details, but a major (and tested)
redesign of everything except the hull! The professionally built
prototype cost way way into six figures (even in $US). Again, their plan
package comes with consultign backup support.
So the cost of $800 (about $US550 at the moment) is likely to cover:
hull, basic plan, building key ex Phil Bolger & Friends
PB&F post-sales support
Duck Flat's overheads markup as a plans agent (hey, gotta live, after
all)
Duck Flat topsides and fitting out plan, building key, other aids
Duck Flat post-sales and crying shoulder support for builders
On my calculations, this is about 1% of what it would cost to build a
Mundoo/Wyoming to a reasonable standard (not gold plated but not using
packing cases either). You could email Duck Flat for more info. A
wyoming is a =big= vessel. Hey, the motors alone are going to set you
back $10K new or $5K second-hand, where's the problem with plan prices?
Tim & FLying Tadpole
BO>duck plans seem to be A$900. Any idea why the big difference?
First off, CSD regrettably is gone, replaced by CSB which doesn't appear
to ship Wyoming plans. Plans for the big boats from PB&F now bear more
relation to reality than they once did; eg the plan cost for an AS29 is
now approaching about 1% of the (home)building cost. Reason of course is
that plan purchase also purchases consulting backup services. So the
Bolger plans themselves are not in the below $100 category to begin
with. The Bolger plans are for a simple utilitarian vessel.
Second, the Duck Flat Wyoming/Mundoo package is for a fully developed
liveaboard motor cruiser for river use. Verandahs, standing headroom in
the main saloon, double beds, stowage for your Harley etc. For a 50ft
vessel, not just small enhancements or details, but a major (and tested)
redesign of everything except the hull! The professionally built
prototype cost way way into six figures (even in $US). Again, their plan
package comes with consultign backup support.
So the cost of $800 (about $US550 at the moment) is likely to cover:
hull, basic plan, building key ex Phil Bolger & Friends
PB&F post-sales support
Duck Flat's overheads markup as a plans agent (hey, gotta live, after
all)
Duck Flat topsides and fitting out plan, building key, other aids
Duck Flat post-sales and crying shoulder support for builders
On my calculations, this is about 1% of what it would cost to build a
Mundoo/Wyoming to a reasonable standard (not gold plated but not using
packing cases either). You could email Duck Flat for more info. A
wyoming is a =big= vessel. Hey, the motors alone are going to set you
back $10K new or $5K second-hand, where's the problem with plan prices?
Tim & FLying Tadpole
tim.curti-@...wrote:
<snip>
pay for his professional time as of yet) I can see no reason to mind a
model boat... after all, it's part of the development process, as much
as a full scale lofting would be.
For my own conscious, I've built many models from Bolger boat books,
but when it came to a full size version I send my check off to Dynamite
and pay my nickle. Plans this cheap should be supported.
<snip>
> Before committing so many sheets of ply I plan to make a model at 1 /Speaking for myself (I've never spoken to PCB as I'm not prepared to
> Any ideas on whether this would count as the one allowed boat from
> the plan set, or is Mr Bolger understanding about model versions?
pay for his professional time as of yet) I can see no reason to mind a
model boat... after all, it's part of the development process, as much
as a full scale lofting would be.
For my own conscious, I've built many models from Bolger boat books,
but when it came to a full size version I send my check off to Dynamite
and pay my nickle. Plans this cheap should be supported.
Tim,
I didn't mean to disparage Duckflats plans or construction; I just have no
personal experience. In general, I think stock plans are a great bargain -
I'm "eyeball engineering" the little 12-footer I'm building, and already I
see a couple of areas that would be better if a little more design time was
expended.
Don Hodges, hoping to see Adelaide someday - want lots of friends there...
I didn't mean to disparage Duckflats plans or construction; I just have no
personal experience. In general, I think stock plans are a great bargain -
I'm "eyeball engineering" the little 12-footer I'm building, and already I
see a couple of areas that would be better if a little more design time was
expended.
Don Hodges, hoping to see Adelaide someday - want lots of friends there...
Bolger's plan's are, shall we say, "utilitarian". Duckflats claims many
enhancements and details - I have not seen their plans. Jerry VanDyke
jvandyke@...is building a "Mundoo" (Duckflats version of
Tennessee) from their plans, may be able to comment from experience.
Don Hodges
dhodges@...
http://www.ecoastlife.com
Your Cyber-Vacation - Loafing on the Emerald Coast
Small Boats, Building, Fishing, Paddling, Rowing, Sailing
enhancements and details - I have not seen their plans. Jerry VanDyke
jvandyke@...is building a "Mundoo" (Duckflats version of
Tennessee) from their plans, may be able to comment from experience.
Don Hodges
dhodges@...
http://www.ecoastlife.com
Your Cyber-Vacation - Loafing on the Emerald Coast
Small Boats, Building, Fishing, Paddling, Rowing, Sailing
----- Original Message -----
From: <tim.curtis@...>
To: <bolger@...>
Sent: Thursday, November 25, 1999 6:57 AM
Subject: [bolger] wyoming
> hello
>
> Apart from duck flat, has anyone else built a Wyoming?
> Is Boats with an Open Mind still the best source of info?
>
> The 'sale' posting from CSD shows Wyoming plans at $150 or less. The
> duck plans seem to be A$900. Any idea why the big difference?
>
> Before committing so many sheets of ply I plan to make a model at 1 /
> 10 scale, or so, just to see it float. Any ideas on whether this would
> count as the one allowed boat from the plan set, or is Mr Bolger
> understanding about model versions?
>
> thanks for any guidance
>
> regards
>
> Tim
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Accurate impartial advice on everything from laptops to tablesaws.
>http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/1701
>
>
>
> -- Talk to your group with your own voice!
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>
>
hello
Apart from duck flat, has anyone else built a Wyoming?
Is Boats with an Open Mind still the best source of info?
The 'sale' posting from CSD shows Wyoming plans at $150 or less. The
duck plans seem to be A$900. Any idea why the big difference?
Before committing so many sheets of ply I plan to make a model at 1 /
10 scale, or so, just to see it float. Any ideas on whether this would
count as the one allowed boat from the plan set, or is Mr Bolger
understanding about model versions?
thanks for any guidance
regards
Tim
Apart from duck flat, has anyone else built a Wyoming?
Is Boats with an Open Mind still the best source of info?
The 'sale' posting from CSD shows Wyoming plans at $150 or less. The
duck plans seem to be A$900. Any idea why the big difference?
Before committing so many sheets of ply I plan to make a model at 1 /
10 scale, or so, just to see it float. Any ideas on whether this would
count as the one allowed boat from the plan set, or is Mr Bolger
understanding about model versions?
thanks for any guidance
regards
Tim