Re: Micro v Chebacco
Of course the 2.5 feet have to go to the top of the
mast -- with 2.5 feet on the bottom, the Micro would
lose quite a bit of its shallow draft -- kind of like
the Santa Monica Pier. ;-)
Phil Lea
happening at
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mast -- with 2.5 feet on the bottom, the Micro would
lose quite a bit of its shallow draft -- kind of like
the Santa Monica Pier. ;-)
Phil Lea
> > I haven't seen the plans for the tallermast(Micro) > > but imagine that the extra 2.5 feet is
happening at
> > the top where the mast is relatively smaller and__________________________________________________
> > not at the bottom where the real beef is.
> Actually, the bottom.
> I haven't seen the plans either, but some time ago a
> member of this group posted a message about the
> change and I took notes.
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Keith,
Thanks for the balanced reply. As much as I love Micro, I more and
more think Chebacco might be the boat for us. Long Micro is probably
too trailer intensive. I'd like to be able to launch and retireve
singlehanded.
I might add that I've always been highly impressed with how dry
Cartopper is, all things considered. It's one of the reasons (while
maintaining a very healthy respect for) that I don't fear the Carq.
Strait in moderate weather. Chebacco has a similiar bow (a bit
truncated) and midsection to Cartopper, the same light weight for her
size, even the same relative location of the mainmast (and the weight
thereof). It wouldn't surprise me at all to find her drier than the
much heavier (but way cool!)T-bird, floating over rather than
punching through the waves. More of a roller coaster, less of a
water ride....
Thanks again, great commentary on the boats; I appreciate it highly.
And good luck on your 'lapstrake cartopper'! Sounds very
interesting. If there's a vice to Cartopper, it's her narrow bottom
that makes her a bit tiddly, noticable esp. downwind. Lapstrake
might go a long way to mitigating that (I've often thought a balanced
lug might be a better rig for her too, for that very reason).
John O'Neill, Still 'plan sailing' here in N.CA.
Thanks for the balanced reply. As much as I love Micro, I more and
more think Chebacco might be the boat for us. Long Micro is probably
too trailer intensive. I'd like to be able to launch and retireve
singlehanded.
I might add that I've always been highly impressed with how dry
Cartopper is, all things considered. It's one of the reasons (while
maintaining a very healthy respect for) that I don't fear the Carq.
Strait in moderate weather. Chebacco has a similiar bow (a bit
truncated) and midsection to Cartopper, the same light weight for her
size, even the same relative location of the mainmast (and the weight
thereof). It wouldn't surprise me at all to find her drier than the
much heavier (but way cool!)T-bird, floating over rather than
punching through the waves. More of a roller coaster, less of a
water ride....
Thanks again, great commentary on the boats; I appreciate it highly.
And good luck on your 'lapstrake cartopper'! Sounds very
interesting. If there's a vice to Cartopper, it's her narrow bottom
that makes her a bit tiddly, noticable esp. downwind. Lapstrake
might go a long way to mitigating that (I've often thought a balanced
lug might be a better rig for her too, for that very reason).
John O'Neill, Still 'plan sailing' here in N.CA.
--- In bolger@y..., kwilson800@a... wrote:
> The Chebacco and Micro, while of similar size, are really very
> different boats. The Micro is a minimal cruiser for two people
that
> can be trailered with some difficulty. Four people in the cockpit
> gets crowded. The long version has a lot more room. The Chebacco
is
> a large daysailer with a big comfortable cockpit that can carry a
> crowd and a very small cabin, mostly just a place to put tired
> children and extra gear. I think it could live on a trailer very
> easily.
>
Well, I finally managed to get switched over to Yahoo, so I can put
my .02 in. I'm not an expert on either design, but I've sailed both,
as well as the Long Micro. I also have some local knowledge; I moved
away from the Bay Area last summer, and for five years I sailed a
Thunderbird out of Berkeley Marina, so I know those waters pretty
well. Anyone who would sail a Cartopper in the Carquinez Strait has
my respect.
The Chebacco and Micro, while of similar size, are really very
different boats. The Micro is a minimal cruiser for two people that
can be trailered with some difficulty. Four people in the cockpit
gets crowded. The long version has a lot more room. The Chebacco is
a large daysailer with a big comfortable cockpit that can carry a
crowd and a very small cabin, mostly just a place to put tired
children and extra gear. I think it could live on a trailer very
easily.
At the risk of arousing the wrath of the Microids among us, the
Chebacco will sail rings around the Micro IMHO, at least the short
one (longer waterline, lighter weight, more efficient lateral
plane). On the other hand, the Micro will be reasonable safe, if not
comfortable, in sea conditions that would seriously frighten me in a
Chebacco.
For sailing in the Delta, I think the Chebacco has a distinct
advantage, with shallower draft and that great cockpit to lounge
around in. Grounding mostly upright has its points too. The Micro
would be much better if you wanted to go out to the Farralons or up
to Drake's Bay, although she's awfully small for that sort of work.
For the Central Bay in summer, with a 3' breaking chop and a 25-knot
sea breeze, it`s about a wash the Chebacco will go to windward
better, but the fact that Micro is self-righting will make you worry
less. I don't think either of them will like the steep chop much,
and you won't stay very dry in either. OTOH, I used to get the
mainsail soaking wet halfway up sailing from Berkeley to Angel Island
on my T-Bird, and she was 26'long, 4000 lbs with a 5'deep fin keel,
and went to windward like you wouldn't believe. You probably can't
stay really dry and comfortable on the Central Bay in a boat that
small no matter what.
Then there's aesthetics, to which I can only say de gustibus non est
disputandum. The Chebacco, particularly the lapstrake version, is
remarkably handsome in a traditional sort of way. The Micro has its
own aesthetic which is unlike anything else. I'd guess that
difficulty of construction is about even the Micro's hull is a bit
simpler, but then you have the ballast keel to deal with. If it were
me, I'd build the lapstrake Chebacco because I like her looks, and
because I prefer fitting planks to sanding epoxy. I'm working on a
lapstrake cartopper variant right now. Ya pays yer money and ya
takes yer choice.
Keith Wilson
(In Minnesota, waiting for spring and wishing that the garage were
warm enough for epoxy to cure)
my .02 in. I'm not an expert on either design, but I've sailed both,
as well as the Long Micro. I also have some local knowledge; I moved
away from the Bay Area last summer, and for five years I sailed a
Thunderbird out of Berkeley Marina, so I know those waters pretty
well. Anyone who would sail a Cartopper in the Carquinez Strait has
my respect.
The Chebacco and Micro, while of similar size, are really very
different boats. The Micro is a minimal cruiser for two people that
can be trailered with some difficulty. Four people in the cockpit
gets crowded. The long version has a lot more room. The Chebacco is
a large daysailer with a big comfortable cockpit that can carry a
crowd and a very small cabin, mostly just a place to put tired
children and extra gear. I think it could live on a trailer very
easily.
At the risk of arousing the wrath of the Microids among us, the
Chebacco will sail rings around the Micro IMHO, at least the short
one (longer waterline, lighter weight, more efficient lateral
plane). On the other hand, the Micro will be reasonable safe, if not
comfortable, in sea conditions that would seriously frighten me in a
Chebacco.
For sailing in the Delta, I think the Chebacco has a distinct
advantage, with shallower draft and that great cockpit to lounge
around in. Grounding mostly upright has its points too. The Micro
would be much better if you wanted to go out to the Farralons or up
to Drake's Bay, although she's awfully small for that sort of work.
For the Central Bay in summer, with a 3' breaking chop and a 25-knot
sea breeze, it`s about a wash the Chebacco will go to windward
better, but the fact that Micro is self-righting will make you worry
less. I don't think either of them will like the steep chop much,
and you won't stay very dry in either. OTOH, I used to get the
mainsail soaking wet halfway up sailing from Berkeley to Angel Island
on my T-Bird, and she was 26'long, 4000 lbs with a 5'deep fin keel,
and went to windward like you wouldn't believe. You probably can't
stay really dry and comfortable on the Central Bay in a boat that
small no matter what.
Then there's aesthetics, to which I can only say de gustibus non est
disputandum. The Chebacco, particularly the lapstrake version, is
remarkably handsome in a traditional sort of way. The Micro has its
own aesthetic which is unlike anything else. I'd guess that
difficulty of construction is about even the Micro's hull is a bit
simpler, but then you have the ballast keel to deal with. If it were
me, I'd build the lapstrake Chebacco because I like her looks, and
because I prefer fitting planks to sanding epoxy. I'm working on a
lapstrake cartopper variant right now. Ya pays yer money and ya
takes yer choice.
Keith Wilson
(In Minnesota, waiting for spring and wishing that the garage were
warm enough for epoxy to cure)
--- In bolger@y..., jboatguy@c... wrote:
>
> Chebacco or Micro. Hmmmmm...
>
> Won't Chebacco point better, i.e., leave Micro over the lee
horizon?
> Won't she go faster off the wind too? We got some viscous currents
> here in the Delta area of N.CA, the water she a-churns and a-boils
> under those big bridges sometimes. And yea, I know they'll both
point
> like laser beams with their motors on, but I'm one of those 'since
> I'm out sailing I wanna be sailin' people, and I know I'd drive the
> crew batty about not wanting to start the engine, and I'd really
> rather avoid that if I can.
>
> And now, I know Micro might be more comfortable in the cabin (is
> she?) and that's important for a happy crew. And I think she's
cute
> as a button, and there's something about tweaking the 'sailboats
have
> to look like sailboats' crowd that has a deep and maybe even
maniacal
> (sp?) appeal to me. But Chebacco also looks like she'd hold a
> football team in that cockpit. It'd be nice to be able to take six
> or eight PFD equipped kids out for happy sail around the pond on
once
> in a while. How many will Micro's cockpit hold, with at least
> tacking room for the skip?
>
> >
> John O'Neill, living it up here in sometimes sunny N. CA, (at least
> when the lights are on) and remembering my beautiful sail with Bink
> yesterday, with reefs tucked into our cozy Cartoppers (and we
> needed 'em) and livin it up on the slough....What a life!
So how tall are the masts? And what is the new sail area.
Isn't the original 150 sq.ft.?
Phil Lea --
enjoying the hundreds of pelicans who wintered over at
our nuclear plant discharge on Lake Dardanelle
---------- Original Message ----------
From:porcupine@...
Isn't the original 150 sq.ft.?
Phil Lea --
enjoying the hundreds of pelicans who wintered over at
our nuclear plant discharge on Lake Dardanelle
---------- Original Message ----------
From:porcupine@...
> As to the actual alternatives, I, too, favor the taller jib-headed---------- Message Preceding Original ----------
> rig for trailer sailing in most areas. I am a little concerned that
> the longer stick might be a challenge to maneuver up and down
> at the ramp, however,
> david (porky) galvin
> > There are 3 Micro rigs - original, enlarged original,
> > and navigator.
Hi Peter,
Thanks for the info; I'm sure I'll work out something! Worst case may be
some kind of yoke on the front of the trailer so some of the mast overhangs
the car off the forward end of the trailer - have seen trailer rigs like
this for Hobies and such, so it wouldn't be a first. Of course I have to
find a trailer first, as well as everything else.
According to my plans from PCB&F (at least my understanding of them, having
studied this aspect before buying my sails) the stretch in the mast happens
at the top, so I also figured the extra weight would be pretty minimal,
though having it way out at the end of the lever arm will still amplify its
effects somewhat. Still I'm pretty sure it will be worth it in the long run,
and by then I should be able to manage rigging it. Amazing the weird things
that can motivate me to push a bit harder at the gym, in the middle of a
bleak winter.....Now I'd better check again on the plans though....
Am hoping my crew will be as enthusiastic about Micro-cruising as yours. So
far so good, but the late-night noise has not yet begun in the basement! And
I only drank mead once, am looking forward to the Champlain messabout to try
it again, finished micro or no.....
Cheers,
Paul Lefebvre
Thanks for the info; I'm sure I'll work out something! Worst case may be
some kind of yoke on the front of the trailer so some of the mast overhangs
the car off the forward end of the trailer - have seen trailer rigs like
this for Hobies and such, so it wouldn't be a first. Of course I have to
find a trailer first, as well as everything else.
According to my plans from PCB&F (at least my understanding of them, having
studied this aspect before buying my sails) the stretch in the mast happens
at the top, so I also figured the extra weight would be pretty minimal,
though having it way out at the end of the lever arm will still amplify its
effects somewhat. Still I'm pretty sure it will be worth it in the long run,
and by then I should be able to manage rigging it. Amazing the weird things
that can motivate me to push a bit harder at the gym, in the middle of a
bleak winter.....Now I'd better check again on the plans though....
Am hoping my crew will be as enthusiastic about Micro-cruising as yours. So
far so good, but the late-night noise has not yet begun in the basement! And
I only drank mead once, am looking forward to the Champlain messabout to try
it again, finished micro or no.....
Cheers,
Paul Lefebvre
--- In bolger@y..., ellengaest@b... wrote:
Peter wrote...
> I haven't seen the plans for the taller mast(Micro) but
imagine that the extra 2.5 feet is happening at the top where the
mast is ralatively smaller and not at the bottom where the real
beef is.
Actually, the bottom.
I haven't seen the plans either, but some time ago a member of
this group posted a message about the change and I took notes.
Change dated 8/96
Revised mast is 25ft 6in long (added 30in)
Luff 21ft 6in, Leech 23ft 0in, Foot 12ft 8in
Area 134 ft^2
The mast's width's remain the same. PCB&F suggest extending
the untapered section of the mast rather than *stretching* the
taper out.
Vance
Paul,
I haven't seen the plans for the taller mast(Micro) but imagine
that the extra 2.5 feet is happening at the top where the mast is
ralatively smaller and not at the bottom where the real beef is.The
increase in weight should be rather slight.
As to trailering the mast;it has been my experience that the best
method is to lash her down(the mast!) on deck,snug with one of the
companionway rails.With some well placed cushioning,you can tie her
down firmly at the bow,main cabin bulkhead(using the cleats for the
main halyard and snotter as strong points) and finally at the
transom.You then have a mere 4 feet of over-hang fore and aft.I've
trailered the boat from Montréal to Newport Rhode Island like this
and experienced absolutely no problems with the mast
ie;chaffing,springing about or shifting.The above applies to the
original 23 foot mast.You'll have a slightly greater over-hang.
I have,however,hauled my mast home once,on the top of a mini-van and
hope to never have to do it again!Maybe our roads are rougher then
yours but she whipped about to the point where I feared she would
snap.Had to slow right down to under 10 kmph!!!!!
Reasonable strenght in the arms will facilitate the raising and
lowering of the mast,no need for Charlie Atlas stuff.
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,on the shores of the St.Lawrence.......
I haven't seen the plans for the taller mast(Micro) but imagine
that the extra 2.5 feet is happening at the top where the mast is
ralatively smaller and not at the bottom where the real beef is.The
increase in weight should be rather slight.
As to trailering the mast;it has been my experience that the best
method is to lash her down(the mast!) on deck,snug with one of the
companionway rails.With some well placed cushioning,you can tie her
down firmly at the bow,main cabin bulkhead(using the cleats for the
main halyard and snotter as strong points) and finally at the
transom.You then have a mere 4 feet of over-hang fore and aft.I've
trailered the boat from Montréal to Newport Rhode Island like this
and experienced absolutely no problems with the mast
ie;chaffing,springing about or shifting.The above applies to the
original 23 foot mast.You'll have a slightly greater over-hang.
I have,however,hauled my mast home once,on the top of a mini-van and
hope to never have to do it again!Maybe our roads are rougher then
yours but she whipped about to the point where I feared she would
snap.Had to slow right down to under 10 kmph!!!!!
Reasonable strenght in the arms will facilitate the raising and
lowering of the mast,no need for Charlie Atlas stuff.
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,on the shores of the St.Lawrence.......
--- In bolger@y..., "Paul A. Lefebvre, Jr." <paul@w...> wrote:
> Hi David,
> Yeah, I've already started doing a little extra upper-body exercise
at the
> gym, to be sure I'll be able to plant that thing each time I put in!
> I also wondered about trailering such a long stick around... I
figured I'd
> put it on the roof-rack of my minivan and let it sweep over the top
of the
> boat on the trailer behind, but a recent review of some of the
photos on
> file has me wondering how tall Micro will sit on the trailer, and
if it will
> interfere with the mast. Time will tell... maybe I'll hang it off
the front
> a bit, invent a new sport - minivan jousting! In any case, an
extra 2 1/2
> feet of mast probably won't make things a whole lot worse, so I'm
going for
> it. Also, my meager understanding of boat rigs says the taller
> (proportionally) the rig, the better to windward in general, so
perhaps this
> rig will point just a tiny bit better.
>
>
> Paul
>
> >>
> As to the actual alternatives, I, too, favor the taller jib-headed
> rig for trailer sailing in most areas. I am a little concerned that
> the longer stick might be a challenge to manuever up and down at the
> ramp, however,
>
> david (porky) galvin
David,
Yes,my crew can certainly get on my nerves with her constant
badgering but the other option,not having her....well,my life just
wouldn't be the same now,would it?
Can't really help you in the sister department,they threw away
the mold after they made her!
Very glad to hear that you'll be coming up to the LAKE CHAMPLAIN
BOLGER MESSABOUT!!!!Let's all pray,chant,dance,drink mead,go into
trances,sacrifice small animals and just basically cross all our
fingers and toes that the weatherman grants us a glorious summer
weekend!!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,rifling through his trunk for an ancient mead recipe,on
the shores of the snowy St.Lawrence........
Yes,my crew can certainly get on my nerves with her constant
badgering but the other option,not having her....well,my life just
wouldn't be the same now,would it?
Can't really help you in the sister department,they threw away
the mold after they made her!
Very glad to hear that you'll be coming up to the LAKE CHAMPLAIN
BOLGER MESSABOUT!!!!Let's all pray,chant,dance,drink mead,go into
trances,sacrifice small animals and just basically cross all our
fingers and toes that the weatherman grants us a glorious summer
weekend!!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,rifling through his trunk for an ancient mead recipe,on
the shores of the snowy St.Lawrence........
--- In bolger@y..., porcupine@d... wrote:
> Peter,
>
> I have enjoyed your numerous complaints about your crew and how
much
> she harrasses you to go sailing again and again. I sympathize,
> really, but... Does she have a sister?
>
> Seriously, count me in for the Messabout on August 4 & 5. I've
> already requested the weekend off,
>
> david (porky) galvin
Paul,
LOL!
I think what we need is someone with empirical experience to comment
on handling the larger spar. Still, I would be willing to do a few
extra bench presses if it helped me go to weather.
So, has anyone actually built the enlarged rig and dealt with it?
david (porky) galvin
LOL!
I think what we need is someone with empirical experience to comment
on handling the larger spar. Still, I would be willing to do a few
extra bench presses if it helped me go to weather.
So, has anyone actually built the enlarged rig and dealt with it?
david (porky) galvin
--- In bolger@y..., "Paul A. Lefebvre, Jr." <paul@w...> wrote:
> Hi David,
> Yeah, I've already started doing a little extra upper-body exercise
at the
> gym, to be sure I'll be able to plant that thing each time I put in!
> I also wondered about trailering such a long stick around... I
figured I'd
> put it on the roof-rack of my minivan and let it sweep over the top
of the
> boat on the trailer behind, but a recent review of some of the
photos on
> file has me wondering how tall Micro will sit on the trailer, and
if it will
> interfere with the mast. Time will tell... maybe I'll hang it off
the front
> a bit, invent a new sport - minivan jousting! In any case, an
extra 2 1/2
> feet of mast probably won't make things a whole lot worse, so I'm
going for
> it. Also, my meager understanding of boat rigs says the taller
> (proportionally) the rig, the better to windward in general, so
perhaps this
> rig will point just a tiny bit better.
>
>
> Paul
>
> >>
> As to the actual alternatives, I, too, favor the taller jib-headed
> rig for trailer sailing in most areas. I am a little concerned that
> the longer stick might be a challenge to manuever up and down at the
> ramp, however,
>
> david (porky) galvin
Hi David,
Yeah, I've already started doing a little extra upper-body exercise at the
gym, to be sure I'll be able to plant that thing each time I put in!
I also wondered about trailering such a long stick around... I figured I'd
put it on the roof-rack of my minivan and let it sweep over the top of the
boat on the trailer behind, but a recent review of some of the photos on
file has me wondering how tall Micro will sit on the trailer, and if it will
interfere with the mast. Time will tell... maybe I'll hang it off the front
a bit, invent a new sport - minivan jousting! In any case, an extra 2 1/2
feet of mast probably won't make things a whole lot worse, so I'm going for
it. Also, my meager understanding of boat rigs says the taller
(proportionally) the rig, the better to windward in general, so perhaps this
rig will point just a tiny bit better.
Paul
rig for trailer sailing in most areas. I am a little concerned that
the longer stick might be a challenge to manuever up and down at the
ramp, however,
david (porky) galvin
Yeah, I've already started doing a little extra upper-body exercise at the
gym, to be sure I'll be able to plant that thing each time I put in!
I also wondered about trailering such a long stick around... I figured I'd
put it on the roof-rack of my minivan and let it sweep over the top of the
boat on the trailer behind, but a recent review of some of the photos on
file has me wondering how tall Micro will sit on the trailer, and if it will
interfere with the mast. Time will tell... maybe I'll hang it off the front
a bit, invent a new sport - minivan jousting! In any case, an extra 2 1/2
feet of mast probably won't make things a whole lot worse, so I'm going for
it. Also, my meager understanding of boat rigs says the taller
(proportionally) the rig, the better to windward in general, so perhaps this
rig will point just a tiny bit better.
Paul
>>As to the actual alternatives, I, too, favor the taller jib-headed
rig for trailer sailing in most areas. I am a little concerned that
the longer stick might be a challenge to manuever up and down at the
ramp, however,
david (porky) galvin
Marco,
Paul is, indeed, correct. I mixed up the words "Navigator"
and "Voyager", and couldn't resist hitting the Send button long
enough to read what I had written. I really admire people who can
read, write and talk in two or more languages. I myself can barely
function in one.
As to the actual alternatives, I, too, favor the taller jib-headed
rig for trailer sailing in most areas. I am a little concerned that
the longer stick might be a challenge to manuever up and down at the
ramp, however,
david (porky) galvin
Paul is, indeed, correct. I mixed up the words "Navigator"
and "Voyager", and couldn't resist hitting the Send button long
enough to read what I had written. I really admire people who can
read, write and talk in two or more languages. I myself can barely
function in one.
As to the actual alternatives, I, too, favor the taller jib-headed
rig for trailer sailing in most areas. I am a little concerned that
the longer stick might be a challenge to manuever up and down at the
ramp, however,
david (porky) galvin
--- In bolger@y..., "Paul A. Lefebvre, Jr." <paul@w...> wrote:
> Marco,
> There are only 3 Micro rigs - original, enlarged original, and
navigator. I
> think 'voyager' was meant to be navigator in the other post.
> The enlarged original mainsail is 2 1/2 feet taller but otherwise
has the
> same foot and leech dimensions, and uses the original mizzen.
Bolger and
> friends are now recommending this rig for better performance in
light air.
> Given the reports of Micros being undercanvassed for light winds,
and the
> relative complexity of the navigator rig for its enhanced sail
area, I'm
> going with the enlarged original to keep it simple, but give me
more power.
> I'll put two reef points in it to keep it manageable in stronger
winds.
>
> My Sailrite kit ought to be here next week!!!! Can't wait.
>
> Paul Lefebvre
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marco Vinicio Masoni [mailto:masoni@t...]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 4:45 AM
> To: bolger@y...
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Micro v Chebacco
>
>
> Hi David,
> i'm building micro, and I know the original rig and Navigator's
rig, but
> what are enlarged rig and voyager rig.
> Thanks
> Marco
Thank you , Paul, and good wind!
In 18.29 31/01/01 +0000, hai scritto:
There are only 3 Micro rigs - original, enlarged original, and navigator. I think 'voyager' was meant to be navigator in the other post.
The enlarged original mainsail is 2 1/2 feet taller but otherwise has the same foot and leech dimensions, and uses the original mizzen. Bolger and friends are now recommending this rig for better performance in light air. Given the reports of Micros being undercanvassed for light winds, and the relative complexity of the navigator rig for its enhanced sail area, I'm going with the enlarged original to keep it simple, but give me more power. I'll put two reef points in it to keep it manageable in stronger winds.
My Sailrite kit ought to be here next week!!!! Can't wait.
Paul Lefebvre
In 18.29 31/01/01 +0000, hai scritto:
Marco,
There are only 3 Micro rigs - original, enlarged original, and navigator. I think 'voyager' was meant to be navigator in the other post.
The enlarged original mainsail is 2 1/2 feet taller but otherwise has the same foot and leech dimensions, and uses the original mizzen. Bolger and friends are now recommending this rig for better performance in light air. Given the reports of Micros being undercanvassed for light winds, and the relative complexity of the navigator rig for its enhanced sail area, I'm going with the enlarged original to keep it simple, but give me more power. I'll put two reef points in it to keep it manageable in stronger winds.
My Sailrite kit ought to be here next week!!!! Can't wait.
Paul Lefebvre
- -----Original Message-----
- From:Marco Vinicio Masoni [mailto:masoni@...]
- Sent:Wednesday, January 31, 2001 4:45 AM
- To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
- Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: Micro v Chebacco
- Hi David,
- i'm building micro, and I know the original rig and Navigator's rig, but what are enlarged rig and voyager rig.
- Thanks
- Marco
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- - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
- Laboratorio di Psicologia Dott. Masoni
- Via Stromboli,3
- 20144 MILANO - Italy
- Tel. 02 43911114 - 0347 7153486
- Fax. 0243318224 - 0247716682
- email: masoni@...
- "Perciò saranno tutte soltanto nomi Le cose che i mortali hanno
- stabilito, persuasi che fossero vere"
(Parmenide 8, 38-39)
The enlarged original mainsail is 2 1/2 feet taller but otherwise has the same foot and leech dimensionsOops! Leech is also longer, proportional to longer luff....Paul
Marco,
There
are only 3 Micro rigs - original, enlarged original, and navigator. I think
'voyager' was meant to be navigator in the other post.
The
enlarged original mainsail is 2 1/2 feet taller but otherwise has the same foot
and leech dimensions, and uses the original mizzen. Bolger and friends
are now recommending this rig for better performance in light air. Given the
reports of Micros being undercanvassed for light winds, and the relative
complexity of the navigator rig for its enhanced sail area, I'm going with
the enlarged original to keep it simple, but give me more power. I'll put two
reef points in it to keep it manageable in stronger winds.
My
Sailrite kit ought to be here next week!!!! Can't wait.
Paul
Lefebvre
-----Original Message-----
From:Marco Vinicio Masoni [mailto:masoni@...]
Sent:Wednesday, January 31, 2001 4:45 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: Micro v ChebaccoHi David,i'm building micro, and I know the original rig and Navigator's rig, but what are enlarged rig and voyager rig.ThanksMarco
Pippo,
I think we think alike. I have to say your conclusions about M v C
were pretty much echoed what I'd been thinking. I know it's a bit
unfair to ask a 'which boat' question, cause it's not one the group
can answer...it doesn't have nearly as much to do with the boats, as
it does me. (Isn't that life?) But it's fun anyway.
Long Micro always struck me as a diluted Micro, a Micro that lacked
purity of purpose. (Any Long Micrites out there who want to set me
straight on that, please do!) But as a pragmatic idealist I hadn't
rejected her out of hand.
Peter L's perspective about 'Micro the Leatherman Tool of sailboats'
strikes home, and is a real pull. But being able to shoot the
bridges with the tide turning is a concern, and against chop, tide
and breeze, square, squat little Micro might have a tough time of it
in these parts, even with a motor.
Being from the east coast I was skeptical of SF bay sailing stories,
but no more. The bay--and delta--can bite. The summertime breeze can
get dowright nasty. While your nieghbor's at home firing up the
grill on a gorgeous summer day, you're in the middle of the Carquinez
Strait riding a floating, wet, bucking bronco, barely able to see
through the spray on your glasses, trying to keep your hat on despite
it being tied to your chin tight enough to choke a horse, wrestling
with a tiller that's slowly winning that tug-a-war, thinking a reef
would probably be smart but how ya gonna put it in!, taking careful
measure of the water bubbling by mere centimeters away from the lee
rail of your open (Cartopper) boat (and juggling the sheet to keep it
that way!), all while trying to get out of the way of the oil tanker
a mile astern and bearing down fast (that came out of nowhere with
you in the middle of the channel!), and with a grin splitting your
face so wide it looks to be in two pieces!
And tomorrow, wife permitting, you get to go out and do it again...!
What a life.
John O'Neill, dreaming of summertime, summertime, sum sum
summertime....
(And okay, you piqued the interest, tell us about this Corsaire....)
In bolger@y..., pippobianco@t... wrote:
I think we think alike. I have to say your conclusions about M v C
were pretty much echoed what I'd been thinking. I know it's a bit
unfair to ask a 'which boat' question, cause it's not one the group
can answer...it doesn't have nearly as much to do with the boats, as
it does me. (Isn't that life?) But it's fun anyway.
Long Micro always struck me as a diluted Micro, a Micro that lacked
purity of purpose. (Any Long Micrites out there who want to set me
straight on that, please do!) But as a pragmatic idealist I hadn't
rejected her out of hand.
Peter L's perspective about 'Micro the Leatherman Tool of sailboats'
strikes home, and is a real pull. But being able to shoot the
bridges with the tide turning is a concern, and against chop, tide
and breeze, square, squat little Micro might have a tough time of it
in these parts, even with a motor.
Being from the east coast I was skeptical of SF bay sailing stories,
but no more. The bay--and delta--can bite. The summertime breeze can
get dowright nasty. While your nieghbor's at home firing up the
grill on a gorgeous summer day, you're in the middle of the Carquinez
Strait riding a floating, wet, bucking bronco, barely able to see
through the spray on your glasses, trying to keep your hat on despite
it being tied to your chin tight enough to choke a horse, wrestling
with a tiller that's slowly winning that tug-a-war, thinking a reef
would probably be smart but how ya gonna put it in!, taking careful
measure of the water bubbling by mere centimeters away from the lee
rail of your open (Cartopper) boat (and juggling the sheet to keep it
that way!), all while trying to get out of the way of the oil tanker
a mile astern and bearing down fast (that came out of nowhere with
you in the middle of the channel!), and with a grin splitting your
face so wide it looks to be in two pieces!
And tomorrow, wife permitting, you get to go out and do it again...!
What a life.
John O'Neill, dreaming of summertime, summertime, sum sum
summertime....
(And okay, you piqued the interest, tell us about this Corsaire....)
In bolger@y..., pippobianco@t... wrote:
> I have a set of plans for each: Micro (which I'm building), Long?) Looking at the deck detail on Chebacco, maybe she is.
> Micro and Chebacco.
> Long Micro was my first choice years ago. However, my opinion has
> changed in that LM does not necessarily add much to the Micro while
> it would be much bigger and heavier.
> I'm pretty sure that Chebacco would be significantly more complex
> than the Micro to build, however others (even very reputable guys
> like Chuck Merrell) think differently. Building Micro has been
> straightforward joinery up to now.
> As a concluding remark, don't be ashamed of your double (or triple)
> thinking. It happens to me all the time, even in the middle of on-
> going projects... for instance, do you know the Corsaire?
> Best, Pippo
>
Hi David,
i'm building micro, and I know the original rig and
Navigator's rig, but what are enlarged rig and voyager rig.
Thanks
Marco
In 19.28 30/01/01 +0000, hai scritto:
troubles>When one finally decides to built one or the other boat, the
the>are not over. Say you decide on Micro. Ah! which Micro? There's
could>standard with original rig, enlarged rig or voyager rig. Or you
>built the navigator cabin with any of the rigs. Huh....>
- Laboratorio di Psicologia Dott. Masoni
- Via Stromboli,3
- 20144 MILANO - Italy
- Tel. 02 43911114 - 0347 7153486
- Fax. 0243318224 - 0247716682
- email: masoni@...
- "Perciò saranno tutte soltanto nomi Le cose che i mortali hanno
- stabilito, persuasi che fossero vere" (Parmenide 8, 38-39)
I have a set of plans for each: Micro (which I'm building), Long
Micro and Chebacco.
Long Micro was my first choice years ago. However, my opinion has
changed in that LM does not necessarily add much to the Micro while
it would be much bigger and heavier.
I'm pretty sure that Chebacco would be significantly more complex
than the Micro to build, however others (even very reputable guys
like Chuck Merrell) think differently. Building Micro has been
straightforward joinery up to now.
As a concluding remark, don't be ashamed of your double (or triple)
thinking. It happens to me all the time, even in the middle of on-
going projects... for instance, do you know the Corsaire?
Best, Pippo
Micro and Chebacco.
Long Micro was my first choice years ago. However, my opinion has
changed in that LM does not necessarily add much to the Micro while
it would be much bigger and heavier.
I'm pretty sure that Chebacco would be significantly more complex
than the Micro to build, however others (even very reputable guys
like Chuck Merrell) think differently. Building Micro has been
straightforward joinery up to now.
As a concluding remark, don't be ashamed of your double (or triple)
thinking. It happens to me all the time, even in the middle of on-
going projects... for instance, do you know the Corsaire?
Best, Pippo
--- In bolger@y..., jboatguy@c... wrote:
> Pippo, did you look at Long Micro? What did you find? I don't
have
> any Long Micro plans. Nor did I know PCB'd raised the stick on
> Micro. Interesting....
>
> I'd never considered the Micro might be significantly easier to
build
> either. Something else to add to the mix (is she really all that
> easier?) Looking at the deck detail on Chebacco, maybe she is.
John,
I have the ultimate answer. Assign one boat name to your index
finger, and the other boat to your center finger. Slap both fingers on
the table top, at the same time, and which ever stings the longest,
build that boat. This system worked for multiple choice questions in
collage, so it should work here.
;-) Stan, Snow Goose
I have the ultimate answer. Assign one boat name to your index
finger, and the other boat to your center finger. Slap both fingers on
the table top, at the same time, and which ever stings the longest,
build that boat. This system worked for multiple choice questions in
collage, so it should work here.
;-) Stan, Snow Goose
LM's been in the mix too, truth to tell (though I'd hardly call it
driving myself crazy, more like revelleling in the decision).
Pippo, did you look at Long Micro? What did you find? I don't have
any Long Micro plans. Nor did I know PCB'd raised the stick on
Micro. Interesting....
I'd never considered the Micro might be significantly easier to build
either. Something else to add to the mix (is she really all that
easier?) Looking at the deck detail on Chebacco, maybe she is.
And, big question here, Peter L., if Micro owners are Micrites (or
whatver was decided) does that make potential Micro owners, measuring
their options, Micrometers?
Hmmm. These big questions of the universe are baffling. What to do
what to do?
If I decide for Chebacco, does that make me a Microrejectionist, or a
Microdeletist? If I build one in my head, step by step, am I a
Micromethodist? If I just like Micros, and have Micro owing friends,
am I a Microny, or just a Micronut.
Maybe if I don't like then I'm a Micronot.
Or, if I don't care one way or the other, does that make me Micronull?
Is the Long Micro a Macromicro, or do we reserve that for Loose
Moose. Has anyone noticed that Loose Moose and Long Micro share the
same acronym? LM. Did PCB do that on purpose? Oh my God! The
universe is soooo astounding!
I can't stand it. Stop me please!
Ponder these question well before responding. The fate of Microworld
depends on it....
John O'Neill, Wasting WAY way too much time here in sunny N. CA
(before the power goes off), when I really do have things that need
doing as long as the power is on.
driving myself crazy, more like revelleling in the decision).
Pippo, did you look at Long Micro? What did you find? I don't have
any Long Micro plans. Nor did I know PCB'd raised the stick on
Micro. Interesting....
I'd never considered the Micro might be significantly easier to build
either. Something else to add to the mix (is she really all that
easier?) Looking at the deck detail on Chebacco, maybe she is.
And, big question here, Peter L., if Micro owners are Micrites (or
whatver was decided) does that make potential Micro owners, measuring
their options, Micrometers?
Hmmm. These big questions of the universe are baffling. What to do
what to do?
If I decide for Chebacco, does that make me a Microrejectionist, or a
Microdeletist? If I build one in my head, step by step, am I a
Micromethodist? If I just like Micros, and have Micro owing friends,
am I a Microny, or just a Micronut.
Maybe if I don't like then I'm a Micronot.
Or, if I don't care one way or the other, does that make me Micronull?
Is the Long Micro a Macromicro, or do we reserve that for Loose
Moose. Has anyone noticed that Loose Moose and Long Micro share the
same acronym? LM. Did PCB do that on purpose? Oh my God! The
universe is soooo astounding!
I can't stand it. Stop me please!
Ponder these question well before responding. The fate of Microworld
depends on it....
John O'Neill, Wasting WAY way too much time here in sunny N. CA
(before the power goes off), when I really do have things that need
doing as long as the power is on.
--- In bolger@y..., pvanderw@o... wrote:
>
> I personally think that anyone driving himself crazy with the
choice
> of Micro v Chebacco should finish the job by including Long Micro
in
> the decision tree. Micro construction at Chebacco size.
>
> In wondering why PCB decided to encourage a larger rig for Micro, I
> have pondered whether experience gained with the reportedly very
> generous rig of Long Micro played a part.
>
> Peter
When one finally decides to built one or the other boat, the troubles
are not over. Say you decide on Micro. Ah! which Micro? There's the
standard with original rig, enlarged rig or voyager rig. Or you could
built the navigator cabin with any of the rigs. Huh....
Okay, then how about Chebacco? There's a cold-molded hull, a
lapstrake hull or a plywood hull. Well, cold-molded is too hard to
build, I guess. Then there's the shelter cabin. How about the 25'
version? Gaff rig? The plans include a jib-headed main as an
alternative. There's almost no end to it!
I think Bolger only drew one version of _Rose_, so that may be the
only logical choice. I can almost guarentee that after you finish
building a _Rose_ you won't feel like building anymore boats ;o)
david (porky) galvin
are not over. Say you decide on Micro. Ah! which Micro? There's the
standard with original rig, enlarged rig or voyager rig. Or you could
built the navigator cabin with any of the rigs. Huh....
Okay, then how about Chebacco? There's a cold-molded hull, a
lapstrake hull or a plywood hull. Well, cold-molded is too hard to
build, I guess. Then there's the shelter cabin. How about the 25'
version? Gaff rig? The plans include a jib-headed main as an
alternative. There's almost no end to it!
I think Bolger only drew one version of _Rose_, so that may be the
only logical choice. I can almost guarentee that after you finish
building a _Rose_ you won't feel like building anymore boats ;o)
david (porky) galvin
--- In bolger@y..., pvanderw@o... wrote:
>
> I personally think that anyone driving himself crazy with the
choice
> of Micro v Chebacco should finish the job by including Long Micro
in
> the decision tree. Micro construction at Chebacco size...
I personally think that anyone driving himself crazy with the choice
of Micro v Chebacco should finish the job by including Long Micro in
the decision tree. Micro construction at Chebacco size.
In wondering why PCB decided to encourage a larger rig for Micro, I
have pondered whether experience gained with the reportedly very
generous rig of Long Micro played a part.
Peter
of Micro v Chebacco should finish the job by including Long Micro in
the decision tree. Micro construction at Chebacco size.
In wondering why PCB decided to encourage a larger rig for Micro, I
have pondered whether experience gained with the reportedly very
generous rig of Long Micro played a part.
Peter
Garth,
Bolger, in fact, designed a version of Chebacco with a 300 lbs.
ballast keel instead of a centerboard. It also has higher freeboard,
1.5' of draft, and a big, picture window cabin. In _Boats With an
Open Mind_ Bolger states, "Her range of stability is increased almost
into the offshore catagory..."
david (porky) galvin
Watching the cold rain freeze on the dirt roads of the western
Catskills....
Bolger, in fact, designed a version of Chebacco with a 300 lbs.
ballast keel instead of a centerboard. It also has higher freeboard,
1.5' of draft, and a big, picture window cabin. In _Boats With an
Open Mind_ Bolger states, "Her range of stability is increased almost
into the offshore catagory..."
david (porky) galvin
Watching the cold rain freeze on the dirt roads of the western
Catskills....
--- In bolger@y..., garth@b... wrote:
>
> I'm smitten by the Chebacco, I admit, for all sorts of reasons --
> form, function, general vibes. (Not to detract from the Micro -- an
> absolutely cool and funky boat, unafraid to be unique.)
>
> I like the Chebacco's big cockpit, I like the sweeping lines
> (especially on the lapstrake versions), I like the slightly antique
> look of the rig. I like her shallow draft.
>
> Anyway -- Larry mentioned Chebacco's lack of ballast. I seem to
> recall someone somewhere online discussing ballast in the keel of a
> Chebacco. Jamie -- do you have any ballast in yours? Would a few
> hundred pounds of ballast down in the keel make her self-righting
> from a 90-degree knockdown?
>
>
> All best,
> Garth
John,
Just a quick mention - I recently received my plans for Micro, purchased
directly from Bolger..... he has raised the mast 2 1/2 feet, and likewise
lengthened the luff of the main, to give better performance in light
breezes....
FYI.....to add to your confusion!
Paul Lefebvre
-----Original Message-----
From:jboatguy@...[mailto:jboatguy@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 9:29 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Micro v Chebacco
Pippo,
That pretty much sums it up. Build both... You're a big help Pippo!
While I'm at it I'll do a Sconner, and maybe an AS29, Oldshoe, Surf,
maybe a Prince William Sound Yawl, maybe that Scow Schooner I saw
somewhere. The Rose would be fun too....
I WANT IT ALL! HELP ME! WHAT HAS BOLGER DONE TO ME! Deep down I'm
a BAB with SSADD, a Born Again Bolger with Sailing Specific Attention
Deficit Disorder (I can't pay attention to nuttin' but sailboats). I
have a need to open eyes and minds in the sick sailing community of
SF BAY where the size of your keel is the sole measure of
seawothiness. Where, when a cruising stick comes tumbling down
because of a $20 fitting failure, no one questions the rig; they
complain about the insurance hassles!
What I really want is Sainte Valerey. It's just too big a boat right
now. So I'm stuck in the never never land of compromise, comparing
apples to oranges. (If you're hungry for fruit does it really
matter? Let's just go sailing!) Both boats pull me, and in
different directions. I do prefer sailing alone, until I want some
company. Then I prefer sailing in company. I want a tough, small
ship that I can take some friends out on, that makes a statement,
that can handle a breeze--and ghosts though a calm...
I am in seriously bad shape....
John O'Neill, Lovin' the wounds of indecision, somewhere near the
banks of the always muddy (but liquid!) Suisun Slough...
Just a quick mention - I recently received my plans for Micro, purchased
directly from Bolger..... he has raised the mast 2 1/2 feet, and likewise
lengthened the luff of the main, to give better performance in light
breezes....
FYI.....to add to your confusion!
Paul Lefebvre
-----Original Message-----
From:jboatguy@...[mailto:jboatguy@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 9:29 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Micro v Chebacco
Pippo,
That pretty much sums it up. Build both... You're a big help Pippo!
While I'm at it I'll do a Sconner, and maybe an AS29, Oldshoe, Surf,
maybe a Prince William Sound Yawl, maybe that Scow Schooner I saw
somewhere. The Rose would be fun too....
I WANT IT ALL! HELP ME! WHAT HAS BOLGER DONE TO ME! Deep down I'm
a BAB with SSADD, a Born Again Bolger with Sailing Specific Attention
Deficit Disorder (I can't pay attention to nuttin' but sailboats). I
have a need to open eyes and minds in the sick sailing community of
SF BAY where the size of your keel is the sole measure of
seawothiness. Where, when a cruising stick comes tumbling down
because of a $20 fitting failure, no one questions the rig; they
complain about the insurance hassles!
What I really want is Sainte Valerey. It's just too big a boat right
now. So I'm stuck in the never never land of compromise, comparing
apples to oranges. (If you're hungry for fruit does it really
matter? Let's just go sailing!) Both boats pull me, and in
different directions. I do prefer sailing alone, until I want some
company. Then I prefer sailing in company. I want a tough, small
ship that I can take some friends out on, that makes a statement,
that can handle a breeze--and ghosts though a calm...
I am in seriously bad shape....
John O'Neill, Lovin' the wounds of indecision, somewhere near the
banks of the always muddy (but liquid!) Suisun Slough...
--- In bolger@y..., pippobianco@t... wrote:
>
> In conclusion there's no conclusion... If you want to daysail with
a
> bunch of relatives or friends and have fun with them, Chebacco is
> better. If you want a tougher smaller ship, and prefer sailing
alone
> or with very few selected crewmates, than Micro would be the way to
> go. Or you might want to build both to have the best of both
worlds...
> Cheers, Pippo
>
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
- no flogging dead horses
- add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
- stay on topic and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
Pippo,
That pretty much sums it up. Build both... You're a big help Pippo!
While I'm at it I'll do a Sconner, and maybe an AS29, Oldshoe, Surf,
maybe a Prince William Sound Yawl, maybe that Scow Schooner I saw
somewhere. The Rose would be fun too....
I WANT IT ALL! HELP ME! WHAT HAS BOLGER DONE TO ME! Deep down I'm
a BAB with SSADD, a Born Again Bolger with Sailing Specific Attention
Deficit Disorder (I can't pay attention to nuttin' but sailboats). I
have a need to open eyes and minds in the sick sailing community of
SF BAY where the size of your keel is the sole measure of
seawothiness. Where, when a cruising stick comes tumbling down
because of a $20 fitting failure, no one questions the rig; they
complain about the insurance hassles!
What I really want is Sainte Valerey. It's just too big a boat right
now. So I'm stuck in the never never land of compromise, comparing
apples to oranges. (If you're hungry for fruit does it really
matter? Let's just go sailing!) Both boats pull me, and in
different directions. I do prefer sailing alone, until I want some
company. Then I prefer sailing in company. I want a tough, small
ship that I can take some friends out on, that makes a statement,
that can handle a breeze--and ghosts though a calm...
I am in seriously bad shape....
John O'Neill, Lovin' the wounds of indecision, somewhere near the
banks of the always muddy (but liquid!) Suisun Slough...
That pretty much sums it up. Build both... You're a big help Pippo!
While I'm at it I'll do a Sconner, and maybe an AS29, Oldshoe, Surf,
maybe a Prince William Sound Yawl, maybe that Scow Schooner I saw
somewhere. The Rose would be fun too....
I WANT IT ALL! HELP ME! WHAT HAS BOLGER DONE TO ME! Deep down I'm
a BAB with SSADD, a Born Again Bolger with Sailing Specific Attention
Deficit Disorder (I can't pay attention to nuttin' but sailboats). I
have a need to open eyes and minds in the sick sailing community of
SF BAY where the size of your keel is the sole measure of
seawothiness. Where, when a cruising stick comes tumbling down
because of a $20 fitting failure, no one questions the rig; they
complain about the insurance hassles!
What I really want is Sainte Valerey. It's just too big a boat right
now. So I'm stuck in the never never land of compromise, comparing
apples to oranges. (If you're hungry for fruit does it really
matter? Let's just go sailing!) Both boats pull me, and in
different directions. I do prefer sailing alone, until I want some
company. Then I prefer sailing in company. I want a tough, small
ship that I can take some friends out on, that makes a statement,
that can handle a breeze--and ghosts though a calm...
I am in seriously bad shape....
John O'Neill, Lovin' the wounds of indecision, somewhere near the
banks of the always muddy (but liquid!) Suisun Slough...
--- In bolger@y..., pippobianco@t... wrote:
>
> In conclusion there's no conclusion... If you want to daysail with
a
> bunch of relatives or friends and have fun with them, Chebacco is
> better. If you want a tougher smaller ship, and prefer sailing
alone
> or with very few selected crewmates, than Micro would be the way to
> go. Or you might want to build both to have the best of both
worlds...
> Cheers, Pippo
>
WHat a question! Been through all of that...
I've analyzed both designs in depth. My conclusions are:
1) Chebacco is more elegant and appealing: to say it with PCB, her
social status is higher
2) Micro is, in theory, significantly more seaworthy. My computations
following the EC standards qualify Micro as an offshore boat (cat.
C), while Chebacco qualifies for protected waters (cat. B). But I
wouldn't trust those numbers blindly... While there are several
reports of capsized Micros, I've neverd heard of a capsized Chebacco
3) Again in theory, Micro should me more comfortable to sail (Brewer
number), while on the other hand Chebacco should be faster and more
responsive, in particular in light breezes
4) Chebacco is more of a big daysailer, Micro is more of a small
cruiser
5) Chebacco should be significantly easier to put on and off a
trailer, and draws almost one foot less than the Micro
6) Chebacco's rig looks easier to set up, but Micro's should be
easier to use once sailing
7) In my opinion, Micro is easier to build than the Chebacco: tack
and tape (or stitch and glue) is really not THAT easy...
In conclusion there's no conclusion... If you want to daysail with a
bunch of relatives or friends and have fun with them, Chebacco is
better. If you want a tougher smaller ship, and prefer sailing alone
or with very few selected crewmates, than Micro would be the way to
go. Or you might want to build both to have the best of both worlds...
Cheers, Pippo
I've analyzed both designs in depth. My conclusions are:
1) Chebacco is more elegant and appealing: to say it with PCB, her
social status is higher
2) Micro is, in theory, significantly more seaworthy. My computations
following the EC standards qualify Micro as an offshore boat (cat.
C), while Chebacco qualifies for protected waters (cat. B). But I
wouldn't trust those numbers blindly... While there are several
reports of capsized Micros, I've neverd heard of a capsized Chebacco
3) Again in theory, Micro should me more comfortable to sail (Brewer
number), while on the other hand Chebacco should be faster and more
responsive, in particular in light breezes
4) Chebacco is more of a big daysailer, Micro is more of a small
cruiser
5) Chebacco should be significantly easier to put on and off a
trailer, and draws almost one foot less than the Micro
6) Chebacco's rig looks easier to set up, but Micro's should be
easier to use once sailing
7) In my opinion, Micro is easier to build than the Chebacco: tack
and tape (or stitch and glue) is really not THAT easy...
In conclusion there's no conclusion... If you want to daysail with a
bunch of relatives or friends and have fun with them, Chebacco is
better. If you want a tougher smaller ship, and prefer sailing alone
or with very few selected crewmates, than Micro would be the way to
go. Or you might want to build both to have the best of both worlds...
Cheers, Pippo
> I have both sets of plans in front of me (thank you Bink!). I've
> been dreaming on it for months/years now. The question is, which
> boat!
>
> Chebacco or Micro. Hmmmmm...
--- In bolger@y..., ellengaest@b... wrote:
> There you are John!,forgotten
> A nice balanced appraisal of each of your choices.I had
> about the centerboard case in the Chebacco!If you have any hopes ofother
> cruising around with your wife,that CB case may not be a
> device conducive to keeping your crew happy.....beware!
> I have gone as long as two weeks(14 days) cruising with my crew
> and she still cooks for me and pesters me about when are we going
> cruising again.
> Jamie Orr does have a point about looks.The Chebacco is one
> handsome son-of-a-gun and will garner more then her share of
> compliments!She seems to have that timeless appeal suffered by
> classics.Bill Samsons' CHEBACCO NEWS is loaded with some fineexamples
> of this beauty!On the other hand,the Micro is sorta like thethoughts
> Leatherman tool.The very first time you lay eyes on it,your
> don't know what to do!Is this a gimmick tool that might work if itdo
> doesn't fall apart or a serious piece of equipement you may wish to
> have in your kit?Some will decide,on the spot,to walk away from the
> gimmick.Others will actually buy it and begin fondling it in their
> hands,getting used to the different shape,and looking for things to
> with it.Very quickly,they discover just how damned useful this toolman
> can be and keep it handy at all times.Next thing you know,tool and
> have become one and there appears nothing that cannot be done orfixed
> with this tool.They marvel at how well it actually works and wonderhad
> why no one else ever thought of this before!
> Ooops!I feel the nervous rattlings of THE FEVER coming on.I
> better stop now before spoiling my objectivity!not
> And you thought this was going to be easy............
> Sincerely,
> Peter Lenihan,off to fetch a hot cup of coffee while trying hard
> to sit on his Leatherman,on the shores of theSt.Lawrence........
>gun-
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In bolger@y..., jboatguy@c... wrote:
>
> > I know its a stupid question because the Chebacco's will be all
> > ho about Chebacco, and the Micros will be batty about Micro, andfor
> > it'll all amout to nothing, but gee whiz, what are we all here
> > anyway, if we all aren't a little gun-ho and batty about boats inleast
> the
> > first place?
> >
> > John O'Neill, living it up here in sometimes sunny N. CA, (at
> > when the lights are on) and remembering my beautiful sail withBink
> > yesterday, with reefs tucked into our cozy Cartoppers (and we
> > needed 'em) and livin it up on the slough....What a life!
Peter,
I have enjoyed your numerous complaints about your crew and how much
she harrasses you to go sailing again and again. I sympathize,
really, but... Does she have a sister?
Seriously, count me in for the Messabout on August 4 & 5. I've
already requested the weekend off,
david (porky) galvin
Piroguer (? phony French) or piroguador (? phony Spanish) by the hard
frozen waters of the third unnamed tributary of Betty Brook, which
will again someday melt and flow into the West Branch of the Delaware
River in the Catskill Mountains (I hope)....
Peter Lenihan wrote:]
I have enjoyed your numerous complaints about your crew and how much
she harrasses you to go sailing again and again. I sympathize,
really, but... Does she have a sister?
Seriously, count me in for the Messabout on August 4 & 5. I've
already requested the weekend off,
david (porky) galvin
Piroguer (? phony French) or piroguador (? phony Spanish) by the hard
frozen waters of the third unnamed tributary of Betty Brook, which
will again someday melt and flow into the West Branch of the Delaware
River in the Catskill Mountains (I hope)....
Peter Lenihan wrote:]
> ....I have gone as long as two weeks(14 days) cruising with my crewnot
> and she still cooks for me and pesters me about when are we going
> cruising again....
> > Sincerely,
> Peter Lenihan,off to fetch a hot cup of coffee while trying hard
> to sit on his Leatherman,on the shores of theSt.Lawrence........
>I was also curious about comfort at anchor -- some have commented on theI think one of the BIG advantages of a shoal draft cruiser is that
>slap of water on Micro's flat bottom. Does anyone have any opinions (this
>group? opinions?) about how these two boats compare in a breezy anchorage?
you can sneak into some little cove that doesn't have any chop, even
in a stiff breeze.
YIBB,
David
CRUMBLING EMPIRE PRODUCTIONS
134 W.26th St. 12th Floor
New York, NY 10001
(212) 243-1636
I'm smitten by the Chebacco, I admit, for all sorts of reasons --
form, function, general vibes. (Not to detract from the Micro -- an
absolutely cool and funky boat, unafraid to be unique.)
I like the Chebacco's big cockpit, I like the sweeping lines
(especially on the lapstrake versions), I like the slightly antique
look of the rig. I like her shallow draft.
Anyway -- Larry mentioned Chebacco's lack of ballast. I seem to
recall someone somewhere online discussing ballast in the keel of a
Chebacco. Jamie -- do you have any ballast in yours? Would a few
hundred pounds of ballast down in the keel make her self-righting
from a 90-degree knockdown?
All best,
Garth
form, function, general vibes. (Not to detract from the Micro -- an
absolutely cool and funky boat, unafraid to be unique.)
I like the Chebacco's big cockpit, I like the sweeping lines
(especially on the lapstrake versions), I like the slightly antique
look of the rig. I like her shallow draft.
Anyway -- Larry mentioned Chebacco's lack of ballast. I seem to
recall someone somewhere online discussing ballast in the keel of a
Chebacco. Jamie -- do you have any ballast in yours? Would a few
hundred pounds of ballast down in the keel make her self-righting
from a 90-degree knockdown?
All best,
Garth
Larry, I could tell you were a man of taste and good sense the instant I met
you!
In my not so humble opinion, Chebacco is ideal for Desolation and Barkley
Sounds. We cruised Desolation in a chartered Catalina last summer, and I'm
itching to get up there in Wayward Lass. I plan to drive with the trailer
to Campbell River and go via Cortes Island, where we have some friends. As
for Barkley Sound, I've never been on it, but I've been flown over the
Broken Group Islands in a light plane, and they're high on my wish list too.
About the lack of ballast, PCB wrote in BWAOM that he didn't see Chebacco
being easily capsized. I haven't put her to the test, although I was out
(very) briefly with 2 reefs in what was at least 30 knots. I stayed just
long enough to find she was under control and tacked readily, then scooted
back into shelter -- but my gut feeling is that PCB is dead right.
At anchor, there was some slapping on the bottom, but it didn't keep me
awake long. That was just a few hours after my 2 reef experience, so it was
still windy -- I was still hiding behind the same island.
Jamie
PS My conscience won't let me sign off just yet. I've never sailed a
Micro, but I've seen two tied up at Manson's Landing on Cortes. Neither
Desolation nor Barkley Sounds should deter Micro owners, or most any other
owners, for that matter. Particularly in summer, and with reasonable
caution, almost anything that floats will, and does, do the job, right down
to rowboats and open canoes.
PPS But you'll enjoy it more in a Chebacco!!!
-----Original Message-----
From: Barker [mailto:lgbarker@...]
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 12:04 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Micro v Chebacco
Jamie,
The Chebacco has been "speaking" to me. Seeing your beautiful boat last
September didn't help ;).
It's good to read that you feel comfortable out in the Straits of Juan de
Fuca and Georgia. Do you also think it would be appropriate, given common
sense, in Barkley or Desolation Sounds? Since I'm in the Northwest we tend
to look up your way for the best cruising grounds and I've never cruised in
an unballasted boat.
I was also curious about comfort at anchor -- some have commented on the
slap of water on Micro's flat bottom. Does anyone have any opinions (this
group? opinions?) about how these two boats compare in a breezy anchorage?
BTW, for you Micro lovers out there, I *like* Micro, I think it's a
good-looking boat. It just doesn't reach out in quite the same way.
Thanks,
Larry Barker
Talent, Oregon
you!
In my not so humble opinion, Chebacco is ideal for Desolation and Barkley
Sounds. We cruised Desolation in a chartered Catalina last summer, and I'm
itching to get up there in Wayward Lass. I plan to drive with the trailer
to Campbell River and go via Cortes Island, where we have some friends. As
for Barkley Sound, I've never been on it, but I've been flown over the
Broken Group Islands in a light plane, and they're high on my wish list too.
About the lack of ballast, PCB wrote in BWAOM that he didn't see Chebacco
being easily capsized. I haven't put her to the test, although I was out
(very) briefly with 2 reefs in what was at least 30 knots. I stayed just
long enough to find she was under control and tacked readily, then scooted
back into shelter -- but my gut feeling is that PCB is dead right.
At anchor, there was some slapping on the bottom, but it didn't keep me
awake long. That was just a few hours after my 2 reef experience, so it was
still windy -- I was still hiding behind the same island.
Jamie
PS My conscience won't let me sign off just yet. I've never sailed a
Micro, but I've seen two tied up at Manson's Landing on Cortes. Neither
Desolation nor Barkley Sounds should deter Micro owners, or most any other
owners, for that matter. Particularly in summer, and with reasonable
caution, almost anything that floats will, and does, do the job, right down
to rowboats and open canoes.
PPS But you'll enjoy it more in a Chebacco!!!
-----Original Message-----
From: Barker [mailto:lgbarker@...]
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 12:04 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Micro v Chebacco
Jamie,
The Chebacco has been "speaking" to me. Seeing your beautiful boat last
September didn't help ;).
It's good to read that you feel comfortable out in the Straits of Juan de
Fuca and Georgia. Do you also think it would be appropriate, given common
sense, in Barkley or Desolation Sounds? Since I'm in the Northwest we tend
to look up your way for the best cruising grounds and I've never cruised in
an unballasted boat.
I was also curious about comfort at anchor -- some have commented on the
slap of water on Micro's flat bottom. Does anyone have any opinions (this
group? opinions?) about how these two boats compare in a breezy anchorage?
BTW, for you Micro lovers out there, I *like* Micro, I think it's a
good-looking boat. It just doesn't reach out in quite the same way.
Thanks,
Larry Barker
Talent, Oregon
----- Original Message -----
From: Orr, Jamie <jorr@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2001 9:23 PM
Subject: RE: [bolger] Micro v Chebacco
<snip>
> I feel totally secure in Chebacco, even when the nearest land is 10 miles
> away and hidden in fog. She never feels unpredictable, and rides over the
> waves with very little spray coming aboard. The centreboard case is not
in
> the way, it provides a convenient footrest in the cockpit and some
> separation for the sleepers in the cabin -- you won't wake up with your
> buddy snoring in your face. And the centreboard also makes Chebacco very
> trailerable -- mine lives on her trailer, which expands my sailing grounds
> and saves me about $800 a year.
>
> She also behaves well at anchor, no sailing around said anchor even in
> strong winds -- with the mizzen up and sheeted amidships she just sits
> quietly on her rope, rocking just enough to help you sleep!
><snip>
> Jamie Orr
> Builder of Wayward Lass, and dyed in the wool Chebacconist
>
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
- no flogging dead horses
- add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
- stay on topic and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
Jamie,
The Chebacco has been "speaking" to me. Seeing your beautiful boat last
September didn't help ;).
It's good to read that you feel comfortable out in the Straits of Juan de
Fuca and Georgia. Do you also think it would be appropriate, given common
sense, in Barkley or Desolation Sounds? Since I'm in the Northwest we tend
to look up your way for the best cruising grounds and I've never cruised in
an unballasted boat.
I was also curious about comfort at anchor -- some have commented on the
slap of water on Micro's flat bottom. Does anyone have any opinions (this
group? opinions?) about how these two boats compare in a breezy anchorage?
BTW, for you Micro lovers out there, I *like* Micro, I think it's a
good-looking boat. It just doesn't reach out in quite the same way.
Thanks,
Larry Barker
Talent, Oregon
The Chebacco has been "speaking" to me. Seeing your beautiful boat last
September didn't help ;).
It's good to read that you feel comfortable out in the Straits of Juan de
Fuca and Georgia. Do you also think it would be appropriate, given common
sense, in Barkley or Desolation Sounds? Since I'm in the Northwest we tend
to look up your way for the best cruising grounds and I've never cruised in
an unballasted boat.
I was also curious about comfort at anchor -- some have commented on the
slap of water on Micro's flat bottom. Does anyone have any opinions (this
group? opinions?) about how these two boats compare in a breezy anchorage?
BTW, for you Micro lovers out there, I *like* Micro, I think it's a
good-looking boat. It just doesn't reach out in quite the same way.
Thanks,
Larry Barker
Talent, Oregon
----- Original Message -----
From: Orr, Jamie <jorr@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2001 9:23 PM
Subject: RE: [bolger] Micro v Chebacco
<snip>
> I feel totally secure in Chebacco, even when the nearest land is 10 miles
> away and hidden in fog. She never feels unpredictable, and rides over the
> waves with very little spray coming aboard. The centreboard case is not
in
> the way, it provides a convenient footrest in the cockpit and some
> separation for the sleepers in the cabin -- you won't wake up with your
> buddy snoring in your face. And the centreboard also makes Chebacco very
> trailerable -- mine lives on her trailer, which expands my sailing grounds
> and saves me about $800 a year.
>
> She also behaves well at anchor, no sailing around said anchor even in
> strong winds -- with the mizzen up and sheeted amidships she just sits
> quietly on her rope, rocking just enough to help you sleep!
><snip>
> Jamie Orr
> Builder of Wayward Lass, and dyed in the wool Chebacconist
>
>John,I *strongly* disagree with the above.
> I can't help but think that you have already made the decision., by
>being here on the Bolger list. Bolger boats = function over form, which
>='s Micro.
The entire notion of form vs. function is a dead concept from the
failed experiment called Modernism. Form is function, function is
form. Bolger understands this better than most designers. His
thinking is clear, rigorous, and uncompromising. Yes, some of
Bolger's designs may be untraditional, but some are quite shippy.
Sometimes Bolger pushes a concept well beyond most people's
tolerance, but other designs break people's hearts with their
beautiful, traditional lines.
YIBB,
David
CRUMBLING EMPIRE PRODUCTIONS
134 W.26th St. 12th Floor
New York, NY 10001
(212) 243-1636
John,
I can't help but think that you have already made the decision., by
being here on the Bolger list. Bolger boats = function over form, which
='s Micro.
Decide using the social approach. Where are you going to meet more
people to interact with; Some one walking by and saying, "nice boat"
(Chebacco) on the way past, Or some one stopping for an explanation
with the comment of, "What the H**l were you thinking when you built
that?" At which point you can explain the design and add another Micro
builder to the list, who will be forever grateful for the epiphany.
It's down to; do you march to your own drummer, or go with the
masses. Don't you want to be able to stand proud, in front of your
peers, and announce, "Hi, my name is John and I'm a Microholic." ;-)
Good Luck, "Non biased" Stan, Snow Goose
I can't help but think that you have already made the decision., by
being here on the Bolger list. Bolger boats = function over form, which
='s Micro.
Decide using the social approach. Where are you going to meet more
people to interact with; Some one walking by and saying, "nice boat"
(Chebacco) on the way past, Or some one stopping for an explanation
with the comment of, "What the H**l were you thinking when you built
that?" At which point you can explain the design and add another Micro
builder to the list, who will be forever grateful for the epiphany.
It's down to; do you march to your own drummer, or go with the
masses. Don't you want to be able to stand proud, in front of your
peers, and announce, "Hi, my name is John and I'm a Microholic." ;-)
Good Luck, "Non biased" Stan, Snow Goose
>--- In bolger@y..., pvanderw@o... wrote:This is a silly question, especially in light of the "Another Boat?"
>> > Chebacco or Micro. Hmmmmm...
>>
>> Let me ask this question: if you were offered either boat free,
>equal
>> condition, which would you take.
thread. Obviously most of us would take both.
YIBB,
David
CRUMBLING EMPIRE PRODUCTIONS
134 W.26th St. 12th Floor
New York, NY 10001
(212) 243-1636
Peter,
If I knew the answer to that question I'd know which one to build!
If there were two real live actual boats in front of me I'd be
crawlin all over them with my tongue hanging out, hardly able the
think for the joy suffusing my soul, and then I'd go for the boat
that I thought was better built. And not being able to wait to get
to the water to go sailing I'd kick back in the cockpit and do some
virtual sailing, feeling the virtual pull of the virtual weather
helm, and leaning back to adjust to the virtual heel, and look up at
the perfectly sheeted virtual sails, and think, LUCKY ME!, but darn,
you know, it woulda been nice to have built this girl myself....
It can never be perfect(but it can get awful close!)
John O'Neill
If I knew the answer to that question I'd know which one to build!
If there were two real live actual boats in front of me I'd be
crawlin all over them with my tongue hanging out, hardly able the
think for the joy suffusing my soul, and then I'd go for the boat
that I thought was better built. And not being able to wait to get
to the water to go sailing I'd kick back in the cockpit and do some
virtual sailing, feeling the virtual pull of the virtual weather
helm, and leaning back to adjust to the virtual heel, and look up at
the perfectly sheeted virtual sails, and think, LUCKY ME!, but darn,
you know, it woulda been nice to have built this girl myself....
It can never be perfect(but it can get awful close!)
John O'Neill
--- In bolger@y..., pvanderw@o... wrote:
> > Chebacco or Micro. Hmmmmm...
>
> Let me ask this question: if you were offered either boat free,
equal
> condition, which would you take. I think there are not many who
would
> choose the Micro over a Chebacco even-up. Those who did would be
> people who sail in strong winds in a small area.
>
> Now, if you have to build it, the Chebacco is a more challenging
> project to me, even give keel anxiety.
>
> Or so it seems to me....
>
> Peter
> Chebacco or Micro. Hmmmmm...Let me ask this question: if you were offered either boat free, equal
condition, which would you take. I think there are not many who would
choose the Micro over a Chebacco even-up. Those who did would be
people who sail in strong winds in a small area.
Now, if you have to build it, the Chebacco is a more challenging
project to me, even give keel anxiety.
Or so it seems to me....
Peter
There you are John!,
A nice balanced appraisal of each of your choices.I had forgotten
about the centerboard case in the Chebacco!If you have any hopes of
cruising around with your wife,that CB case may not be a
device conducive to keeping your crew happy.....beware!
I have gone as long as two weeks(14 days) cruising with my crew
and she still cooks for me and pesters me about when are we going
cruising again.
Jamie Orr does have a point about looks.The Chebacco is one
handsome son-of-a-gun and will garner more then her share of
compliments!She seems to have that timeless appeal suffered by other
classics.Bill Samsons' CHEBACCO NEWS is loaded with some fine examples
of this beauty!On the other hand,the Micro is sorta like the
Leatherman tool.The very first time you lay eyes on it,your thoughts
don't know what to do!Is this a gimmick tool that might work if it
doesn't fall apart or a serious piece of equipement you may wish to
have in your kit?Some will decide,on the spot,to walk away from the
gimmick.Others will actually buy it and begin fondling it in their
hands,getting used to the different shape,and looking for things to do
with it.Very quickly,they discover just how damned useful this tool
can be and keep it handy at all times.Next thing you know,tool and man
have become one and there appears nothing that cannot be done or fixed
with this tool.They marvel at how well it actually works and wonder
why no one else ever thought of this before!
Ooops!I feel the nervous rattlings of THE FEVER coming on.I had
better stop now before spoiling my objectivity!
And you thought this was going to be easy............
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,off to fetch a hot cup of coffee while trying hard not
to sit on his Leatherman,on the shores of the St.Lawrence........
A nice balanced appraisal of each of your choices.I had forgotten
about the centerboard case in the Chebacco!If you have any hopes of
cruising around with your wife,that CB case may not be a
device conducive to keeping your crew happy.....beware!
I have gone as long as two weeks(14 days) cruising with my crew
and she still cooks for me and pesters me about when are we going
cruising again.
Jamie Orr does have a point about looks.The Chebacco is one
handsome son-of-a-gun and will garner more then her share of
compliments!She seems to have that timeless appeal suffered by other
classics.Bill Samsons' CHEBACCO NEWS is loaded with some fine examples
of this beauty!On the other hand,the Micro is sorta like the
Leatherman tool.The very first time you lay eyes on it,your thoughts
don't know what to do!Is this a gimmick tool that might work if it
doesn't fall apart or a serious piece of equipement you may wish to
have in your kit?Some will decide,on the spot,to walk away from the
gimmick.Others will actually buy it and begin fondling it in their
hands,getting used to the different shape,and looking for things to do
with it.Very quickly,they discover just how damned useful this tool
can be and keep it handy at all times.Next thing you know,tool and man
have become one and there appears nothing that cannot be done or fixed
with this tool.They marvel at how well it actually works and wonder
why no one else ever thought of this before!
Ooops!I feel the nervous rattlings of THE FEVER coming on.I had
better stop now before spoiling my objectivity!
And you thought this was going to be easy............
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,off to fetch a hot cup of coffee while trying hard not
to sit on his Leatherman,on the shores of the St.Lawrence........
--- In bolger@y..., jboatguy@c... wrote:
> I know its a stupid question because the Chebacco's will be all gun-
> ho about Chebacco, and the Micros will be batty about Micro, and
> it'll all amout to nothing, but gee whiz, what are we all here for
> anyway, if we all aren't a little gun-ho and batty about boats in
the
> first place?
>
> John O'Neill, living it up here in sometimes sunny N. CA, (at least
> when the lights are on) and remembering my beautiful sail with Bink
> yesterday, with reefs tucked into our cozy Cartoppers (and we
> needed 'em) and livin it up on the slough....What a life!
Hi there!
Okay, I'll weigh in for Chebacco with a subjective, but honest (I hope)
review.
She sails very well, taking only a few minutes to get the masts up and raise
the sails. And the mast is easily handled by one. The cabin will sleep 2
in comfort -- my dad and I spent 3 nights in her in September, and we're
both 200+ pounds and 6 feet. [It is also possible to bridge the footwell
with the floorboards (resting on rails just below the seat tops) which
should allow for 2 or 3 more to sleep aboard. It'll be crowded at that, but
with a boom tent or tarp, and storing the gear in the footwell overnight,
it'll work -- I'll post pictures once I've got it fixed up.] The cockpit is
nice and big, as you've noticed -- see Tim Smith's picture with 9 aboard, in
Chebacco News!
I feel totally secure in Chebacco, even when the nearest land is 10 miles
away and hidden in fog. She never feels unpredictable, and rides over the
waves with very little spray coming aboard. The centreboard case is not in
the way, it provides a convenient footrest in the cockpit and some
separation for the sleepers in the cabin -- you won't wake up with your
buddy snoring in your face. And the centreboard also makes Chebacco very
trailerable -- mine lives on her trailer, which expands my sailing grounds
and saves me about $800 a year.
She also behaves well at anchor, no sailing around said anchor even in
strong winds -- with the mizzen up and sheeted amidships she just sits
quietly on her rope, rocking just enough to help you sleep!
And finally, with apologies to the Micro-maniacs, I find Chebacco far more
attractive. The general public agrees that she's beautiful too, because
they tell me so at the boat ramp, parking lots, gas stations, or anywhere
else we go. Happened again today....
Jamie Orr
Builder of Wayward Lass, and dyed in the wool Chebacconist
-----Original Message-----
From:jboatguy@...[mailto:jboatguy@...]
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2001 8:12 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Micro v Chebacco
O
Chebacco or Micro. Hmmmmm...
And now, I know Micro might be more comfortable in the cabin (is
she?) and that's important for a happy crew. And I think she's cute
as a button, and there's something about tweaking the 'sailboats have
to look like sailboats' crowd that has a deep and maybe even maniacal
(sp?) appeal to me. But Chebacco also looks like she'd hold a
football team in that cockpit. It'd be nice to be able to take six
or eight PFD equipped kids out for happy sail around the pond on once
in a while. How many will Micro's cockpit hold, with at least
tacking room for the skip?
Okay, I'll weigh in for Chebacco with a subjective, but honest (I hope)
review.
She sails very well, taking only a few minutes to get the masts up and raise
the sails. And the mast is easily handled by one. The cabin will sleep 2
in comfort -- my dad and I spent 3 nights in her in September, and we're
both 200+ pounds and 6 feet. [It is also possible to bridge the footwell
with the floorboards (resting on rails just below the seat tops) which
should allow for 2 or 3 more to sleep aboard. It'll be crowded at that, but
with a boom tent or tarp, and storing the gear in the footwell overnight,
it'll work -- I'll post pictures once I've got it fixed up.] The cockpit is
nice and big, as you've noticed -- see Tim Smith's picture with 9 aboard, in
Chebacco News!
I feel totally secure in Chebacco, even when the nearest land is 10 miles
away and hidden in fog. She never feels unpredictable, and rides over the
waves with very little spray coming aboard. The centreboard case is not in
the way, it provides a convenient footrest in the cockpit and some
separation for the sleepers in the cabin -- you won't wake up with your
buddy snoring in your face. And the centreboard also makes Chebacco very
trailerable -- mine lives on her trailer, which expands my sailing grounds
and saves me about $800 a year.
She also behaves well at anchor, no sailing around said anchor even in
strong winds -- with the mizzen up and sheeted amidships she just sits
quietly on her rope, rocking just enough to help you sleep!
And finally, with apologies to the Micro-maniacs, I find Chebacco far more
attractive. The general public agrees that she's beautiful too, because
they tell me so at the boat ramp, parking lots, gas stations, or anywhere
else we go. Happened again today....
Jamie Orr
Builder of Wayward Lass, and dyed in the wool Chebacconist
-----Original Message-----
From:jboatguy@...[mailto:jboatguy@...]
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2001 8:12 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Micro v Chebacco
O
Chebacco or Micro. Hmmmmm...
And now, I know Micro might be more comfortable in the cabin (is
she?) and that's important for a happy crew. And I think she's cute
as a button, and there's something about tweaking the 'sailboats have
to look like sailboats' crowd that has a deep and maybe even maniacal
(sp?) appeal to me. But Chebacco also looks like she'd hold a
football team in that cockpit. It'd be nice to be able to take six
or eight PFD equipped kids out for happy sail around the pond on once
in a while. How many will Micro's cockpit hold, with at least
tacking room for the skip?
Hello John,
You sure want specifics John!:-) If you have read the past
postings from the Micrologists in the group,you know how crazy we can
sometimes get and THE FEVER is only part of the problem!
So,without necessarily repeating the mantra all over
again(wouldn't want ya ta fall asleep too fast on me......) and with
an honest desire to be helpful,I offer you the following two frozen
pennies worth:
The Chebacco does appear to have the roomier more
comfortable(read,normal) cocpit then the Micro.However,I would wonder
about how the Chebacco will sit on her lines and handle the gang you
propose.The Micro will lounge(seat) two to three comfortably without
crowding the skipper.I have had as many as 7 but we were all friends
and it was a launching day special treat.
I have never seen the Chebacco cabin and can only speak for the
Micro on this one;plenty of room for two friends!!!An added bonus is
the huge storage hold found on the Micro.
I suspect both boats sail remarkably well if equiped with well cut
sails and handled by experienced skippers.The Chebacco boat may have
the theoretical advantage,speed wise,but certainly not so much as to
knock yourself out about.Then again,you may have a little racer in
you!?
The only aspect of the two boats in question that would settle it
for me,especially if I were fortunate enough to be living the good
life on the West Coast with hopes of sailing out on the Pacific,would
be the Micros' self-righting,self-rescuing ability.I do not believe
the Chebacco boat has this feature.
In the end,it will be all your time and money so perhaps it would
be best for you to go with your heart.....you are going to have to
love your choice passionately as you plug away at the sometimes
endless little tasks that keep slowing you down and causing you
to put back the launch date!
Hopefully some Chebaccologists will throw some much needed light
into this area of choices!?
Enjoy the present madness for it will soon be lost forever to a
different sort.
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,with way too much time on his hands thanks to his
crew,on the dark,cold and windy shores of the St.Lawrence.........
You sure want specifics John!:-) If you have read the past
postings from the Micrologists in the group,you know how crazy we can
sometimes get and THE FEVER is only part of the problem!
So,without necessarily repeating the mantra all over
again(wouldn't want ya ta fall asleep too fast on me......) and with
an honest desire to be helpful,I offer you the following two frozen
pennies worth:
The Chebacco does appear to have the roomier more
comfortable(read,normal) cocpit then the Micro.However,I would wonder
about how the Chebacco will sit on her lines and handle the gang you
propose.The Micro will lounge(seat) two to three comfortably without
crowding the skipper.I have had as many as 7 but we were all friends
and it was a launching day special treat.
I have never seen the Chebacco cabin and can only speak for the
Micro on this one;plenty of room for two friends!!!An added bonus is
the huge storage hold found on the Micro.
I suspect both boats sail remarkably well if equiped with well cut
sails and handled by experienced skippers.The Chebacco boat may have
the theoretical advantage,speed wise,but certainly not so much as to
knock yourself out about.Then again,you may have a little racer in
you!?
The only aspect of the two boats in question that would settle it
for me,especially if I were fortunate enough to be living the good
life on the West Coast with hopes of sailing out on the Pacific,would
be the Micros' self-righting,self-rescuing ability.I do not believe
the Chebacco boat has this feature.
In the end,it will be all your time and money so perhaps it would
be best for you to go with your heart.....you are going to have to
love your choice passionately as you plug away at the sometimes
endless little tasks that keep slowing you down and causing you
to put back the launch date!
Hopefully some Chebaccologists will throw some much needed light
into this area of choices!?
Enjoy the present madness for it will soon be lost forever to a
different sort.
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,with way too much time on his hands thanks to his
crew,on the dark,cold and windy shores of the St.Lawrence.........
--- In bolger@y..., jboatguy@c... wrote:
>
> I have both sets of plans in front of me (thank you Bink!). I've
> been dreaming on it for months/years now. The question is, which
> boat!
>
> Chebacco or Micro. Hmmmmm...
>
>
> John O'Neill, living it up here in sometimes sunny N. CA, (at least
> when the lights are on) and remembering my beautiful sail with Bink
> yesterday, with reefs tucked into our cozy Cartoppers (and we
> needed 'em) and livin it up on the slough....What a life!
Okay folks, not to get away from Yahoo--but to get away from yahoo (I
know I know things were going along just dandy and someone had to go
and mess with it, and they ask too many questions (and yea I agree)
but if you invite BIG BRO (the internet hydra)into your living room
you kind of have to expect BIG BRO will take advantage...) anyway, I
have a question....
I have both sets of plans in front of me (thank you Bink!). I've
been dreaming on it for months/years now. The question is, which
boat!
Chebacco or Micro. Hmmmmm...
Won't Chebacco point better, i.e., leave Micro over the lee horizon?
Won't she go faster off the wind too? We got some viscous currents
here in the Delta area of N.CA, the water she a-churns and a-boils
under those big bridges sometimes. And yea, I know they'll both point
like laser beams with their motors on, but I'm one of those 'since
I'm out sailing I wanna be sailin' people, and I know I'd drive the
crew batty about not wanting to start the engine, and I'd really
rather avoid that if I can.
And now, I know Micro might be more comfortable in the cabin (is
she?) and that's important for a happy crew. And I think she's cute
as a button, and there's something about tweaking the 'sailboats have
to look like sailboats' crowd that has a deep and maybe even maniacal
(sp?) appeal to me. But Chebacco also looks like she'd hold a
football team in that cockpit. It'd be nice to be able to take six
or eight PFD equipped kids out for happy sail around the pond on once
in a while. How many will Micro's cockpit hold, with at least
tacking room for the skip?
These are the deep question I ponder in those mystical moments in bed
between sleeps, and in the car, on the pot, and when my wife is going
on about projects around the house. (Uh oh, the secrets out!)(But I
kind of suspect she knows that anyway, I can see it in those rolling
eyes....)
I also know it's a stupid question (the navy told me there was no
such thing as a stupid questions, but they also said I'd get the see
the world, when all I got to see was the inside of a submarine...)
I know its a stupid question because the Chebacco's will be all gun-
ho about Chebacco, and the Micros will be batty about Micro, and
it'll all amout to nothing, but gee whiz, what are we all here for
anyway, if we all aren't a little gun-ho and batty about boats in the
first place?
John O'Neill, living it up here in sometimes sunny N. CA, (at least
when the lights are on) and remembering my beautiful sail with Bink
yesterday, with reefs tucked into our cozy Cartoppers (and we
needed 'em) and livin it up on the slough....What a life!
know I know things were going along just dandy and someone had to go
and mess with it, and they ask too many questions (and yea I agree)
but if you invite BIG BRO (the internet hydra)into your living room
you kind of have to expect BIG BRO will take advantage...) anyway, I
have a question....
I have both sets of plans in front of me (thank you Bink!). I've
been dreaming on it for months/years now. The question is, which
boat!
Chebacco or Micro. Hmmmmm...
Won't Chebacco point better, i.e., leave Micro over the lee horizon?
Won't she go faster off the wind too? We got some viscous currents
here in the Delta area of N.CA, the water she a-churns and a-boils
under those big bridges sometimes. And yea, I know they'll both point
like laser beams with their motors on, but I'm one of those 'since
I'm out sailing I wanna be sailin' people, and I know I'd drive the
crew batty about not wanting to start the engine, and I'd really
rather avoid that if I can.
And now, I know Micro might be more comfortable in the cabin (is
she?) and that's important for a happy crew. And I think she's cute
as a button, and there's something about tweaking the 'sailboats have
to look like sailboats' crowd that has a deep and maybe even maniacal
(sp?) appeal to me. But Chebacco also looks like she'd hold a
football team in that cockpit. It'd be nice to be able to take six
or eight PFD equipped kids out for happy sail around the pond on once
in a while. How many will Micro's cockpit hold, with at least
tacking room for the skip?
These are the deep question I ponder in those mystical moments in bed
between sleeps, and in the car, on the pot, and when my wife is going
on about projects around the house. (Uh oh, the secrets out!)(But I
kind of suspect she knows that anyway, I can see it in those rolling
eyes....)
I also know it's a stupid question (the navy told me there was no
such thing as a stupid questions, but they also said I'd get the see
the world, when all I got to see was the inside of a submarine...)
I know its a stupid question because the Chebacco's will be all gun-
ho about Chebacco, and the Micros will be batty about Micro, and
it'll all amout to nothing, but gee whiz, what are we all here for
anyway, if we all aren't a little gun-ho and batty about boats in the
first place?
John O'Neill, living it up here in sometimes sunny N. CA, (at least
when the lights are on) and remembering my beautiful sail with Bink
yesterday, with reefs tucked into our cozy Cartoppers (and we
needed 'em) and livin it up on the slough....What a life!