Re: Chebacco sails
Hi Roger,
I have the jib, as drawn by PCB, and I can tell you it really isn't
worth it (my opinion based on my experience) unless you put on a
bowsprit. I don't have a bowsprit, so I have the tack at the bow of
my Chebacco. When both main and jib are set, going to windward the
jib spoils the flow to the main, and running, it is blanketed by the
main. If set with the mizzen only, no main, it worked well downwind
and across the wind instead of reefing the main in stronger wind,
but
I've never found it worthwhile doing much with it. One day I'll
probably try a bowsprit but meanwhile I like the simplicity of the
original rig.
Chuck Gottfried uses a larger jib, Sailrite has the dimensions, and
he
also has a bowsprit -- you can reach him for details by going to
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sucia/He also has roller furling and
this arrangement has been very effective. I've sailed alongside him
(and behind him!)
The new owner of Sylvester, Richard, also uses a larger jib on a
bowsprit and has had good experience with it. You can find him
through www.chebacco.com
Cheers,
Jamie Orr
Chebacco Wayward Lass
I have the jib, as drawn by PCB, and I can tell you it really isn't
worth it (my opinion based on my experience) unless you put on a
bowsprit. I don't have a bowsprit, so I have the tack at the bow of
my Chebacco. When both main and jib are set, going to windward the
jib spoils the flow to the main, and running, it is blanketed by the
main. If set with the mizzen only, no main, it worked well downwind
and across the wind instead of reefing the main in stronger wind,
but
I've never found it worthwhile doing much with it. One day I'll
probably try a bowsprit but meanwhile I like the simplicity of the
original rig.
Chuck Gottfried uses a larger jib, Sailrite has the dimensions, and
he
also has a bowsprit -- you can reach him for details by going to
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sucia/He also has roller furling and
this arrangement has been very effective. I've sailed alongside him
(and behind him!)
The new owner of Sylvester, Richard, also uses a larger jib on a
bowsprit and has had good experience with it. You can find him
through www.chebacco.com
Cheers,
Jamie Orr
Chebacco Wayward Lass
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "derbyrm" <derbyrm@...> wrote:
>
> I'm getting ready to order sails (MANY months premature) and
wonder
about
> the jib they offer. Has anyone sailed a 20' Chebacco with and
without the
> jib? Does it make a huge improvement?
>
> Roger
> derbyrm@...
>http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "derbyrm" <derbyrm@...> wrote:
Maybe check directly with some of the owners - like Ben Ho. I think
about four Chebaccos have jibs. The concensus seems to be - it depends.
Seems hardly worth the effort if solo and yet might entertain a bored
crew.
Nels
>about
> I'm getting ready to order sails (MANY months premature) and wonder
> the jib they offer. Has anyone sailed a 20' Chebacco with andwithout the
> jib? Does it make a huge improvement?http://chebacco.com/
>
> Roger
> derbyrm@...
>http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
>
Maybe check directly with some of the owners - like Ben Ho. I think
about four Chebaccos have jibs. The concensus seems to be - it depends.
Seems hardly worth the effort if solo and yet might entertain a bored
crew.
Nels
I'm getting ready to order sails (MANY months premature) and wonder about
the jib they offer. Has anyone sailed a 20' Chebacco with and without the
jib? Does it make a huge improvement?
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
the jib they offer. Has anyone sailed a 20' Chebacco with and without the
jib? Does it make a huge improvement?
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
hehe
Talk to Vincenzo Ciminale. He uses a jib, and a mizzen staysail...
http://www.chebacco.com/articles/chebacco15.10/article.htm
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "seagulloutb" <dickburnham1@a...>
wrote:
Talk to Vincenzo Ciminale. He uses a jib, and a mizzen staysail...
http://www.chebacco.com/articles/chebacco15.10/article.htm
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "seagulloutb" <dickburnham1@a...>
wrote:
>to
> Thinking about the earlier conversation here on the use/design of
> foresails on the Chebacco, I wrote to Fraser Howell up in Nova
> Scotia. Fraser, in my opinion, was a heck of an experimenter with
> jibs and the like on his Chebacco. Here are his comments from a
> private email to me:
> =======
> "I think that a spinnaker may be too much for an unstayed wooden
> mast, at
> least in anything greater that 10 kt. I've found that it is easy
> overpower I @ S. Plus who needs it. Chebacco goes like stink offthe
> wind without one. The only time I've been in real difficulty iswith
> toolight
> much power dead downwind. The jib is problematic. Its good in
> breezes, but with the main up, needs two people to handle if youare
> going to be tacking much. Too many lines to handle alone,especially
> inother
> close quarters. I wisker it out no the boathook when running.
> However,
> jib and mizzen alone can be handy for trolling or just making
> boats wonder what the heck you are! I had hoped that a jib wouldsell
> improve
> upwind performance, but it doesn't. I can tack through 90 degrees,
> but
> am pinching to do so."
> ====
> Moreover I contacted Sailrite and got their fix (of course they
> and might not be able to say "not needed" but in any event): add a3'
> bow sprit and then a larger jib is something they'd do (for over$200
> as a kit); or add a 6 to 8' pole for an even larger sail, andthey'd
> come up with an asymmetrical spinnaker. But, given Fraser'scomments
> as well as Phil Bolger's design drawing of the sail plan, I'd notbe
> tempted, at least not for the coming season.
I think the reason for the mizzen is to provide balance - at least
that is what I found. It (the mizzen) provides little drive, but
allowed me to trim the sails to where I didn't need to steer or even
lash the tiller when sailing upwind - an admirable trait when
singlehanding. Were I to suggest any changes to the rig it would be to
increase the areas of both sails, particularly the main to give the
boat a bit more umph in light airs as this would not increase the
complexity of the rig - one would merely need to reef sooner.
Paul Thober
that is what I found. It (the mizzen) provides little drive, but
allowed me to trim the sails to where I didn't need to steer or even
lash the tiller when sailing upwind - an admirable trait when
singlehanding. Were I to suggest any changes to the rig it would be to
increase the areas of both sails, particularly the main to give the
boat a bit more umph in light airs as this would not increase the
complexity of the rig - one would merely need to reef sooner.
Paul Thober
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Paxton" <bill@p...> wrote:
> Most of the catboats I've seen have one large mainsail. Sometimes
> they might have a small jib. Why is the Chebacco designed with a
> mizzen?
You got it. Frazer Howell's boat is named "Itchy and Scratchy."
(From the Registry athttp://www.chebacco.com/)
Thanks,
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
(From the Registry athttp://www.chebacco.com/)
Thanks,
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nels" <arvent@...>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "seagulloutb" <dickburnham1@a...>
> wrote:
>> Thinking about the earlier conversation here on the use/design of
>> foresails on the Chebacco, I wrote to Fraser Howell up in Nova
>> Scotia. Fraser, in my opinion, was a heck of an experimenter with
>> jibs and the like on his Chebacco. Here are his comments from a
>> private email to me:
>> =======
>> "I think that a spinnaker may be too much for an unstayed wooden
>> mast, at least in anything greater that 10 kt. I've found that it is easy
>> to overpower I @ S. Plus who needs it. Chebacco goes like stink
>> off the wind without one.
>
> Hi Roger,
>
> Methinks he refers to the name of his Chebacco, but I can't recall it
> right now. I will though - right after I hit the send button:-)
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "seagulloutb" <dickburnham1@a...>
wrote:
Methinks he refers to the name of his Chebacco, but I can't recall it
right now. I will though - right after I hit the send button:-)
Not meaning to put words in Jamie Orr's mouth but I believe what he
was interested in, was using it when the winds are under 10 knots and
looking like they will stay that way. Something to do before
unshipping the yuloh or firing up the stink pot.
Reading 100 Small Boat Rigs - Rig #51 almost looks like it is a gaff
rig on a Micro with a spinnaker. But he goes on to explain that it is
a scow hull with a large well forward in which a second hand can
stand while working the spinnaker.
This may be another reason why the latest up-date of Micro Navigator
has a larger forward well, and a second companionway forward -
allowing fof a spinnaker option to be suggested. Also, if an aluminum
pipe is used for a mast, it might have the added stiffness allowing
the spinnaker to work more efficiently than with a tapered wooden
mast. Another option might be an untapered birdsmouth mast with some
added carbon fiber.
Looks like a nice option to have, if all the other changes are in
place.
Cheers, Nels
wrote:
>the
> Thinking about the earlier conversation here on the use/design of
> foresails on the Chebacco, I wrote to Fraser Howell up in Nova
> Scotia. Fraser, in my opinion, was a heck of an experimenter with
> jibs and the like on his Chebacco. Here are his comments from a
> private email to me:
> =======
> "I think that a spinnaker may be too much for an unstayed wooden
> mast, at
> least in anything greater that 10 kt. I've found that it is easy to
> overpower I @ S. Plus who needs it. Chebacco goes like stink off
> wind without one.Hi Roger,
Methinks he refers to the name of his Chebacco, but I can't recall it
right now. I will though - right after I hit the send button:-)
Not meaning to put words in Jamie Orr's mouth but I believe what he
was interested in, was using it when the winds are under 10 knots and
looking like they will stay that way. Something to do before
unshipping the yuloh or firing up the stink pot.
Reading 100 Small Boat Rigs - Rig #51 almost looks like it is a gaff
rig on a Micro with a spinnaker. But he goes on to explain that it is
a scow hull with a large well forward in which a second hand can
stand while working the spinnaker.
This may be another reason why the latest up-date of Micro Navigator
has a larger forward well, and a second companionway forward -
allowing fof a spinnaker option to be suggested. Also, if an aluminum
pipe is used for a mast, it might have the added stiffness allowing
the spinnaker to work more efficiently than with a tapered wooden
mast. Another option might be an untapered birdsmouth mast with some
added carbon fiber.
Looks like a nice option to have, if all the other changes are in
place.
Cheers, Nels
I'm going thru O'Brian's Aubrey/Maturing series again and I was struck by
the fact that one needed to carefully time and sequence the spreading of the
sails. Set too much, too fast and the masts go. Add small increments after
the hull has come up to speed and you can get away with it.
Dinghies don't have the inertia of a 50 gun ship of the line, and our
shrouds are better stuff, but the idea's still valid.
Sailing downwind is DANGEROUS. There's little apparent wind to let you know
you've waited too long to reef, and if you round up or broach you get the
full effect RIGHT NOW!
Roger (what's "I @ S" ????)
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
the fact that one needed to carefully time and sequence the spreading of the
sails. Set too much, too fast and the masts go. Add small increments after
the hull has come up to speed and you can get away with it.
Dinghies don't have the inertia of a 50 gun ship of the line, and our
shrouds are better stuff, but the idea's still valid.
Sailing downwind is DANGEROUS. There's little apparent wind to let you know
you've waited too long to reef, and if you round up or broach you get the
full effect RIGHT NOW!
Roger (what's "I @ S" ????)
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: "seagulloutb" <dickburnham1@...>
> Thinking about the earlier conversation here on the use/design of
> foresails on the Chebacco, I wrote to Fraser Howell up in Nova
> Scotia. Fraser, in my opinion, was a heck of an experimenter with
> jibs and the like on his Chebacco. Here are his comments from a
> private email to me:
> =======
> "I think that a spinnaker may be too much for an unstayed wooden
> mast, at least in anything greater that 10 kt. I've found that it is easy
> to overpower I @ S. Plus who needs it. Chebacco goes like stink
> off the wind without one. The only time I've been in real difficulty is
> with too much power dead downwind. The jib is problematic. Its
> good in light breezes, but with the main up, needs two people to
> handle if you are going to be tacking much.
Thinking about the earlier conversation here on the use/design of
foresails on the Chebacco, I wrote to Fraser Howell up in Nova
Scotia. Fraser, in my opinion, was a heck of an experimenter with
jibs and the like on his Chebacco. Here are his comments from a
private email to me:
=======
"I think that a spinnaker may be too much for an unstayed wooden
mast, at
least in anything greater that 10 kt. I've found that it is easy to
overpower I @ S. Plus who needs it. Chebacco goes like stink off the
wind without one. The only time I've been in real difficulty is with
too
much power dead downwind. The jib is problematic. Its good in light
breezes, but with the main up, needs two people to handle if you are
going to be tacking much. Too many lines to handle alone, especially
in
close quarters. I wisker it out no the boathook when running.
However,
jib and mizzen alone can be handy for trolling or just making other
boats wonder what the heck you are! I had hoped that a jib would
improve
upwind performance, but it doesn't. I can tack through 90 degrees,
but
am pinching to do so."
====
Moreover I contacted Sailrite and got their fix (of course they sell
and might not be able to say "not needed" but in any event): add a 3'
bow sprit and then a larger jib is something they'd do (for over $200
as a kit); or add a 6 to 8' pole for an even larger sail, and they'd
come up with an asymmetrical spinnaker. But, given Fraser's comments
as well as Phil Bolger's design drawing of the sail plan, I'd not be
tempted, at least not for the coming season.
foresails on the Chebacco, I wrote to Fraser Howell up in Nova
Scotia. Fraser, in my opinion, was a heck of an experimenter with
jibs and the like on his Chebacco. Here are his comments from a
private email to me:
=======
"I think that a spinnaker may be too much for an unstayed wooden
mast, at
least in anything greater that 10 kt. I've found that it is easy to
overpower I @ S. Plus who needs it. Chebacco goes like stink off the
wind without one. The only time I've been in real difficulty is with
too
much power dead downwind. The jib is problematic. Its good in light
breezes, but with the main up, needs two people to handle if you are
going to be tacking much. Too many lines to handle alone, especially
in
close quarters. I wisker it out no the boathook when running.
However,
jib and mizzen alone can be handy for trolling or just making other
boats wonder what the heck you are! I had hoped that a jib would
improve
upwind performance, but it doesn't. I can tack through 90 degrees,
but
am pinching to do so."
====
Moreover I contacted Sailrite and got their fix (of course they sell
and might not be able to say "not needed" but in any event): add a 3'
bow sprit and then a larger jib is something they'd do (for over $200
as a kit); or add a 6 to 8' pole for an even larger sail, and they'd
come up with an asymmetrical spinnaker. But, given Fraser's comments
as well as Phil Bolger's design drawing of the sail plan, I'd not be
tempted, at least not for the coming season.
PCB admits Chebacco will probably be marginally slower than a cousin
with a single large mainsail, but he broke up the sailplan to
mitigate the problems of traditional catboats. These include:
difficulty in reaching the clew when reefing, a long boom that can
trip the boat, a center-of-effort well offset from vessel centerline
when off the wind (making for 'hard mouth' cats), more difficult
handling of one large sail as opposed to two smaller ones, inability
to heave-to, charging around at anchor, and a larger mast well up in
the bow where weight really counts.
Two smaller sails help in all those areas, and eliminate some
problems altogether, such as charging around at anchor, reefing
difficulties, and heaving-to. Plus, there is the added bonus of
being able to trim the mizzen to balance the boat, allowing her to
self-steer. All in all, I think it makes for a very fair tradeoff.
John O'Neill
with a single large mainsail, but he broke up the sailplan to
mitigate the problems of traditional catboats. These include:
difficulty in reaching the clew when reefing, a long boom that can
trip the boat, a center-of-effort well offset from vessel centerline
when off the wind (making for 'hard mouth' cats), more difficult
handling of one large sail as opposed to two smaller ones, inability
to heave-to, charging around at anchor, and a larger mast well up in
the bow where weight really counts.
Two smaller sails help in all those areas, and eliminate some
problems altogether, such as charging around at anchor, reefing
difficulties, and heaving-to. Plus, there is the added bonus of
being able to trim the mizzen to balance the boat, allowing her to
self-steer. All in all, I think it makes for a very fair tradeoff.
John O'Neill
--- In bolger@y..., "Bill Paxton" <bill@p...> wrote:
> Most of the catboats I've seen have one large mainsail. Sometimes
> they might have a small jib. Why is the Chebacco designed with a
> mizzen?
Most of the catboats I've seen have one large mainsail. Sometimes
they might have a small jib. Why is the Chebacco designed with a
mizzen?
they might have a small jib. Why is the Chebacco designed with a
mizzen?