Re: [bolger] Thinning Epoxy

I emailed support at Systems Three regarding thinning epoxy resin and this is the answer I got:
 
"We would never recommend thinning epoxy with a solvent for fiberglassing.  If the epoxy is too thick for you and warming won't do the job then use our Clear Coat epoxy for wetting out the cloth and fill the weave with regular System Three epoxy."
 
System Three Resins, Inc.
3500 West Valley Highway, N   Suite 105
Auburn, WA  98001
Technical Support:  253/333-8118
 
James Fuller
In a message dated 2/15/01 12:05:42 PM Central Standard Time,
jpope@... writes:


In conventional polyester lay-ups the gelcoat sprayed into a mold is often
made to be air inhibited in its cure


I used conventional polyester building a cedar strip canoe sometime ago. No
gelcoat involved, but the resin itself is "air inhibited", so the final coat
needs to have air-excluding wax added so the whole mess will cure properly.
Worked slick for me, and I still don't smell anything, whatever those
archived posts may say about the nastiness of polyester.

Bill in MN
Thinning reduces the strength of the cured resin, so I don't think it is a
good idea to laminate with thinned resin, even if it is several layers. I
try to laminate all in one session, but it is usually taping, seldom using
more than one layer of glass in a big panel...

Don Hodges

----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Pope <jpope@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 12:00 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Thinning Epoxy


> Hi Don and Dianne,
> Your observation triggers an interesting question. I wonder if the slowing
> action re the dilution of epoxy with acetone is an opportunity to add more
> layers of lamination in the primary bonding mode? That is to say that in
the
> normal lay-up if the lamination had already 'gone-off' the surface has
then to
> be sanded etc. for any additional layers, and the bond between the
follow-on
> layers and the original is mechanical only or secondary, not chemical or
> primary.
> In conventional polyester lay-ups the gelcoat sprayed into a mold is often
> made to be air inhibited in its cure so that the additional necessary
layers
> of lamination will bond chemically i.e. in a primary mode. It would by
nice if
> something of the same phenomenon could be made to happen to an epoxy
lay-up in
> order to allow a little more breathing room (time) in the laminating
process.
> Jim
>
> Don and Dianne wrote:
>
> > You can thin it with acetone or toluol, but in addition to lowering the
> > strength it slows drying, so you may have a few days of sticky surfaces
at
> > 50f
> >
> > Don Hodges
> > www.ECoastLife.com
> > Your Emerald Coast Cyber-Vacation
> > Small-Boat Building, Fishing, Cruising
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <claude_the_sailor@...>
> > To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 3:03 PM
> > Subject: [bolger] Thinning Epoxy
> >
> > > Has anyone tried to thin epoxy with solvents to improve penetration in
> > > the plywood in cooler weather? My work area seldom gets above 50F
> > > and the West System epoxy i'm using is pretty thick. When I'm trying
> > > to wet a large area, it's difficult to get the wood warm enough and
> > > fast enough to insure good absorbsion. I know that epoxy, when
> > > thinned, looses some of it's strength, but for a first sealing coat I
> > > didn't think that would be a problem. Any suggestions?
> > > Claude
> > > My Micro plans are on the way.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> > > - no flogging dead horses
> > > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> > > - stay on topic and punctuate
> > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> > - no flogging dead horses
> > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> > - stay on topic and punctuate
> > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> - no flogging dead horses
> - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> - stay on topic and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
>
>
>
Hi Don and Dianne,
Your observation triggers an interesting question. I wonder if the slowing
action re the dilution of epoxy with acetone is an opportunity to add more
layers of lamination in the primary bonding mode? That is to say that in the
normal lay-up if the lamination had already 'gone-off' the surface has then to
be sanded etc. for any additional layers, and the bond between the follow-on
layers and the original is mechanical only or secondary, not chemical or
primary.
In conventional polyester lay-ups the gelcoat sprayed into a mold is often
made to be air inhibited in its cure so that the additional necessary layers
of lamination will bond chemically i.e. in a primary mode. It would by nice if
something of the same phenomenon could be made to happen to an epoxy lay-up in
order to allow a little more breathing room (time) in the laminating process.
Jim

Don and Dianne wrote:

> You can thin it with acetone or toluol, but in addition to lowering the
> strength it slows drying, so you may have a few days of sticky surfaces at
> 50f
>
> Don Hodges
> www.ECoastLife.com
> Your Emerald Coast Cyber-Vacation
> Small-Boat Building, Fishing, Cruising
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <claude_the_sailor@...>
> To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 3:03 PM
> Subject: [bolger] Thinning Epoxy
>
> > Has anyone tried to thin epoxy with solvents to improve penetration in
> > the plywood in cooler weather? My work area seldom gets above 50F
> > and the West System epoxy i'm using is pretty thick. When I'm trying
> > to wet a large area, it's difficult to get the wood warm enough and
> > fast enough to insure good absorbsion. I know that epoxy, when
> > thinned, looses some of it's strength, but for a first sealing coat I
> > didn't think that would be a problem. Any suggestions?
> > Claude
> > My Micro plans are on the way.
> >
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> > - no flogging dead horses
> > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> > - stay on topic and punctuate
> > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> - no flogging dead horses
> - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> - stay on topic and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
I use a low temp hardner (System 3) and store my epoxy in a large cardboard box
with an incandesent light bulb on a cheap "trouble light". Temp in side the
box stays about 85 deg F. Epoxy flows nicely. I, too work over the winter
at garage temps in the 40 degree range. Curing times with the low temp hardner
are normal. BTW, I don't leave the box light on all the time; warm up the contents
about 1 hour before using the epoxy/hardner.

I've heard that thinned epoxy can be used as a base coat for varnishing.

Jim C.







>You can thin it with acetone or toluol, but in addition to lowering the
>strength it slows drying, so you may have a few days of sticky surfaces at

>50f
>
>Don Hodges
>www.ECoastLife.com
>Your Emerald Coast Cyber-Vacation
>Small-Boat Building, Fishing, Cruising
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <claude_the_sailor@...>
>To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 3:03 PM
>Subject: [bolger] Thinning Epoxy
>
>
>> Has anyone tried to thin epoxy with solvents to improve penetration in
>> the plywood in cooler weather? My work area seldom gets above 50F
>> and the West System epoxy i'm using is pretty thick. When I'm trying
>> to wet a large area, it's difficult to get the wood warm enough and
>> fast enough to insure good absorbsion. I know that epoxy, when
>> thinned, looses some of it's strength, but for a first sealing coat I
>> didn't think that would be a problem. Any suggestions?
>> Claude
>> My Micro plans are on the way.
>>
>>
>>
>> Bolger rules!!!
>> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
>> - no flogging dead horses
>> - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
>> - stay on topic and punctuate
>> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
>- no flogging dead horses
>- add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
>- stay on topic and punctuate
>- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
>
>
>
You can thin it with acetone or toluol, but in addition to lowering the
strength it slows drying, so you may have a few days of sticky surfaces at
50f

Don Hodges
www.ECoastLife.com
Your Emerald Coast Cyber-Vacation
Small-Boat Building, Fishing, Cruising

----- Original Message -----
From: <claude_the_sailor@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 3:03 PM
Subject: [bolger] Thinning Epoxy


> Has anyone tried to thin epoxy with solvents to improve penetration in
> the plywood in cooler weather? My work area seldom gets above 50F
> and the West System epoxy i'm using is pretty thick. When I'm trying
> to wet a large area, it's difficult to get the wood warm enough and
> fast enough to insure good absorbsion. I know that epoxy, when
> thinned, looses some of it's strength, but for a first sealing coat I
> didn't think that would be a problem. Any suggestions?
> Claude
> My Micro plans are on the way.
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> - no flogging dead horses
> - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> - stay on topic and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
>
>
>
Sorry, i said acetate when i was thinking acetone. Clyde

"Paul W. Esterle" wrote:

> I thin WEST epoxy with acetone. I do this when I'm sealing end grain. As the
> solvent evaporates, I keep brushing more on. Seems to work better than
> heating it, which just makes it kick quicker. Wouldn't use it for any
> structural applications though...
>
> Paul W. Esterle
> Capt'n Pauley Video Productions
> 423.989.3159
> S/V Bryn Awel, Columbia 10.7
> Bristol, Tenn. USA
>http://www.captnpauley.bigstep.com
>http://pages.preferred.com/~pesterle/
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <StepHydro@...>
> To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 4:23 PM
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Thinning Epoxy
>
> > Claude,
> >
> > In building control-line speed models, I've frequently thinned epoxy with
> > plain old denatured alky for surface coating or for applying glass or
> carbon.
> > It seems to work fine, but I wouldn't try it thinned as a structural
> adhesive.
> >
> > Cheers/Carron
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> > - no flogging dead horses
> > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> > - stay on topic and punctuate
> > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> >
> >
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> - no flogging dead horses
> - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> - stay on topic and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
I think acetate but ask system 3 or west/gougeon. clyde

StepHydro@...wrote:

> Claude,
>
> In building control-line speed models, I've frequently thinned epoxy with
> Has anyone tried to thin epoxy with solvents to improve penetration
in the plywood in cooler weather?


I seem to recall that RAKA is billed as being a thinner epoxy from
the get-go. Something about "nonreactive dilutents"? All I've ever
used is RAKA, so I don't know how its thickness compares to West or
the others. Can anyone weigh in on this? Might save a lot of fiddling
with thinners.

BTW: a good thing to help epoxy soak into ply is just a quick scuff
with sandpaper prior to coating.

All best,
Garth
I asked RAKA about this.  He suggested that I thin it with
lacquer thinner, not more than 10%. He also said that it
wasn't necessary.  I was asking  about wetting
out cloth.  He even said that he thickens epoxy for the
first coat.  Says that it not only will wet it out, that it
fills more easily that way.
 
James Fuller
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent:Wednesday, February 14, 2001 1:03 PM
Subject:[bolger] Thinning Epoxy

Has anyone tried to thin epoxy with solvents to improve penetration in
the plywood in cooler weather?  My work area seldom gets above 50F
and the West System epoxy i'm using is pretty thick. When I'm trying
to wet a large area, it's difficult to get the wood warm enough and
fast enough to insure good absorbsion. I know that epoxy, when
thinned, looses some of it's strength, but for a first sealing coat I
didn't think that would be a problem.  Any suggestions?
Claude
My Micro plans are on the way.



Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
- no flogging dead horses
- add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
- stay on topic and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts

I asked RAKA about this.  He suggested that I thin it with
lacquer thinner, not more than 10%. He also said that it
wasn't necessary.  I was asking  about wetting
out cloth.  He even said that he thickens epoxy for the
first coat.  Says that it not only will wet it out, that it
fills more easily that way.
 
James Fuller
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent:Wednesday, February 14, 2001 1:03 PM
Subject:[bolger] Thinning Epoxy

Has anyone tried to thin epoxy with solvents to improve penetration in
the plywood in cooler weather?  My work area seldom gets above 50F
and the West System epoxy i'm using is pretty thick. When I'm trying
to wet a large area, it's difficult to get the wood warm enough and
fast enough to insure good absorbsion. I know that epoxy, when
thinned, looses some of it's strength, but for a first sealing coat I
didn't think that would be a problem.  Any suggestions?
Claude
My Micro plans are on the way.



Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
- no flogging dead horses
- add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
- stay on topic and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts

I have found that Alcohol works relatively well and has the advantage of
being less toxic and costly.

Michael Surface

>From:claude_the_sailor@...
>Reply-To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
>To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [bolger] Thinning Epoxy
>Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 21:03:02 -0000
>
>Has anyone tried to thin epoxy with solvents to improve penetration in
> the plywood in cooler weather? My work area seldom gets above 50F
>and the West System epoxy i'm using is pretty thick. When I'm trying
>to wet a large area, it's difficult to get the wood warm enough and
>fast enough to insure good absorbsion. I know that epoxy, when
>thinned, looses some of it's strength, but for a first sealing coat I
>didn't think that would be a problem. Any suggestions?
>Claude
>My Micro plans are on the way.
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com
I thin WEST epoxy with acetone. I do this when I'm sealing end grain. As the
solvent evaporates, I keep brushing more on. Seems to work better than
heating it, which just makes it kick quicker. Wouldn't use it for any
structural applications though...

Paul W. Esterle
Capt'n Pauley Video Productions
423.989.3159
S/V Bryn Awel, Columbia 10.7
Bristol, Tenn. USA
http://www.captnpauley.bigstep.com
http://pages.preferred.com/~pesterle/

----- Original Message -----
From: <StepHydro@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 4:23 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Thinning Epoxy


> Claude,
>
> In building control-line speed models, I've frequently thinned epoxy with
> plain old denatured alky for surface coating or for applying glass or
carbon.
> It seems to work fine, but I wouldn't try it thinned as a structural
adhesive.
>
> Cheers/Carron
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> - no flogging dead horses
> - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> - stay on topic and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
>
>
On Wed, 14 Feb 2001claude_the_sailor@...wrote:
> Has anyone tried to thin epoxy with solvents to improve penetration in
> the plywood in cooler weather? My work area seldom gets above 50F and
> the West System epoxy i'm using is pretty thick.

It's a bad idea. The thinner evaporates, leaving a "honeycomb" surface.

The best way to thin epoxy is to warm it up. Keep it in a
refrigerator or other closed surface with a good light bulb
underneath--that's what System 3 recommends, and it's what I saw at
Devlin's shop in Olympia when I visited.
Claude,

In building control-line speed models, I've frequently thinned epoxy with
plain old denatured alky for surface coating or for applying glass or carbon.
It seems to work fine, but I wouldn't try it thinned as a structural adhesive.

Cheers/Carron
Has anyone tried to thin epoxy with solvents to improve penetration in
the plywood in cooler weather? My work area seldom gets above 50F
and the West System epoxy i'm using is pretty thick. When I'm trying
to wet a large area, it's difficult to get the wood warm enough and
fast enough to insure good absorbsion. I know that epoxy, when
thinned, looses some of it's strength, but for a first sealing coat I
didn't think that would be a problem. Any suggestions?
Claude
My Micro plans are on the way.