Re: [bolger] Are birdsmouths Noble?

> Please what year is that patent?

I'm sorry, I don't know. It might say in either the MAIB or
WoodenBoat references in other posts, but I don't have any
independent information. However, it was not new at the time of the
original MAIB article, so it may be 25 years or so old.

Incidently, if I remember correctly, the original MAIB method
indicated that it may be a variation on a old chinese method, in
which case the patent might be unenforceable anyway.

There was more than one part in MAIB. I think there may have been one
part on the math/geometry and a couple parts on the usual sort of
practical snafus (sawing thru the saw's electric cord). The mast
involved was a big one.

Finally, for those considering the excellent idea of a mast plug at
the partners: you might consider adapting the Phil Rhodes-style
tapered plug as illustrated in Robert M. Stewart's Boatbuilding
Manual (and perhaps elsewhere). A stress point at the end of the plug
is potentially as dangerous as a stress point at the partners.

Peter

There is a good drawing at:

http://www.pragdata.com/philboat/PlanBirdsmouth.html

The dimension marked "x" is what is tapered. It can go down to .5x
(at least) without the birdsmouth breaking through. (Someone who's a
lot better at geometry can tell us exactly at what point the
birdsmouth would break through. I would guess that it's at .25x -
but I had a worthless, but well-rounded,liberal arts undergrad
education). If you taper the staves to .5x, it does mean that there
is essentially no hollow at the top of the spar.

Hope that this helps.

Regards

Andy Farquhar

The NobleSpar is how I recall it being firsted named, if that helps any. Don

----- Original Message -----
From: <freedem@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 6:38 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Are birdsmouths Noble?


> --- In bolger@y..., pvanderw@o... wrote:
> >
> > I find it interesting that the term 'birdsmouth' has become the
> > standard terminology for this mast construction. (Also, oar
> loom
> > construction as per MAIB).
> >
> > This method is patented in UK under by someone named
> Noble (I think).
> > The first mention I ever saw about it was in MAIB, and there it
> was
> > called the Noble Spar. It's not patented in the US, as far as I
> know,
> > and y'all are welcome to use it. But, whatever happend to the
> Noble
> > name?
> >
> > Peter
>
> Peter
> Please what year is that patent?
> thankyou
> Jeff Bybee
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> - no flogging dead horses
> - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> - stay on topic and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
>
>

I just taper the 2x before I rip the strips rather than rip all of
the strips and then taper each one. Then,I just run the strips once
over a dado set at 45 degrees. It just makes for a lot less times
through the table saw. I can do it in a lot less time than it takes
to explain. I have found that the more times I run each stave
through the table saw the more opportunity i have to screw up. The
dado makes good birdsmouths with only one run.


Regards

Andy Farquhar

--- In bolger@y..., pvanderw@o... wrote:

>
> I find it interesting that the term 'birdsmouth' has become the
> standard terminology for this mast construction. (Also, oar

loom

> construction as per MAIB).
>
> This method is patented in UK under by someone named

Noble (I think).

> The first mention I ever saw about it was in MAIB, and there it

was

> called the Noble Spar. It's not patented in the US, as far as I

know,

> and y'all are welcome to use it. But, whatever happend to the

Noble

> name?
>
> Peter

Peter
Please what year is that patent?
thankyou
Jeff Bybee

I find it interesting that the term 'birdsmouth' has become the
standard terminology for this mast construction. (Also, oar loom
construction as per MAIB).

This method is patented in UK under by someone named Noble (I think).
The first mention I ever saw about it was in MAIB, and there it was
called the Noble Spar. It's not patented in the US, as far as I know,
and y'all are welcome to use it. But, whatever happend to the Noble
name?

Peter

I'm surely missing something here - if I rip strips off a standard junky
construction grade 'two by...' I get strips one and a half inches on one
side, the other dimension being whatever I set my saw fence to. Those strips
are big enough to build a birdsmouth spar over three and a half inches in
diameter, with any probable scantlings. Why all the tricky ripping? Once the
strips are ripped from the 'two by..' they go back through the saw three
times. One time in a 'ladder'jig to taper them, and twice with the blade at
45 degrees gives me the birdsmouth. Almost takes longer to type than to do.
I was never so gleeful as when I watched my first spar pop itself together
this way :)

Cheers
Derek

Andy,

I'm still not getting this. I thought I understood it at the first post a
couple days back, but I'm flummoxed. Too many ambuiguous sides, edges and
ends for me to sort out. Then, why rip them to 1/2"??? Finally, say that the
stock is tapered in thickness from 1" down to 1/2". Set the dado to put a 45
in it 1/2" deep at the bottom....that 45 will run out at the top.

This needs (deserves) a couple of drawings in the Files. I am certain that it
is a really fine way to make a mast, ans seen is probably simple. But, trying
to imagine the process, plus the jigs, via email makes it seem like ancient
incantations :-)

Thanks for trying, but I'm going to sit back and listen for a while.

Cheers/Don