Re: [bolger] Re: Micro mast and plywood questions
One last shot at the birdsmouth subject. If the mast tapers to a thickness
too thin for the birdsmouth staves, cut it off a bit below where the staves
would hit each other and then use solid wood for the tip of the spar. Drill
out the end of the birdsmouth part after the glue has hardened and carve or
turn a round plug into the end of the solid piece to fit. I haven't had
need to try this yet, but I've given it some thought, it should work fine.
too thin for the birdsmouth staves, cut it off a bit below where the staves
would hit each other and then use solid wood for the tip of the spar. Drill
out the end of the birdsmouth part after the glue has hardened and carve or
turn a round plug into the end of the solid piece to fit. I haven't had
need to try this yet, but I've given it some thought, it should work fine.
On Sat, 17 Feb 2001 05:15:11 -0000, Porky wrote:
> John,
>
> Oh, duh! I meant the mast tapers to *one* inch. See what I mean? Oh,
> never mind. The subject is giving me a headache. I'll just build
> some mock-ups and see for myself. Besides, the natives are getting
> restless. We gotta stop talking about b***m***ths and M***o now.
> ...
--
John <jkohnen@...>
http://www.boat-links.com/
School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the whole span of human
existence . They are full of dull, unintelligible tasks, new and unpleasant
ordinances, brutal violations of common sense and common decency.
<H. L. Mencken>
John,
Oh, duh! I meant the mast tapers to *one* inch. See what I mean? Oh,
never mind. The subject is giving me a headache. I'll just build
some mock-ups and see for myself. Besides, the natives are getting
restless. We gotta stop talking about b***m***ths and M***o now.
Okay, to change the subject, who in the group is planning to start
building a Rose in the next month? <g>
porky
Oh, duh! I meant the mast tapers to *one* inch. See what I mean? Oh,
never mind. The subject is giving me a headache. I'll just build
some mock-ups and see for myself. Besides, the natives are getting
restless. We gotta stop talking about b***m***ths and M***o now.
Okay, to change the subject, who in the group is planning to start
building a Rose in the next month? <g>
porky
--- In bolger@y..., jboatguy@c... wrote:
> Porky
>
> If the walls are .76", and the top of the mast is 2", there is
plenty
> of clearance. .76 x 2 = 1.52 leaving .48" diameter hole in the top.
> The staves in this case will be tapered right down to nearly the tip
> of the birdsmouth cut, with about .04" to spare, as the staves will
> be .8" wide at the top of the mast, and the cut will eat up 1/2 of
> that. But that .04 is all you need. I'd highly recommend making
the
> mast 10% wider than Bolger's octoganal stick. Then you can go down
> to 15% of diameter as a wall thickness, and have a stonger, lighter,
> stick that nobody can tell is fatter than the next guys....
Porky
If the walls are .76", and the top of the mast is 2", there is plenty
of clearance. .76 x 2 = 1.52 leaving .48" diameter hole in the top.
The staves in this case will be tapered right down to nearly the tip
of the birdsmouth cut, with about .04" to spare, as the staves will
be .8" wide at the top of the mast, and the cut will eat up 1/2 of
that. But that .04 is all you need. I'd highly recommend making the
mast 10% wider than Bolger's octoganal stick. Then you can go down
to 15% of diameter as a wall thickness, and have a stonger, lighter,
stick that nobody can tell is fatter than the next guys....
I hope all these numbers don't put you off. The system is
dimensionally integrated. For an eight stave stick all you pick is
mast diameter and wall thickness, and everything else falls into
place. All you do is cut to width and thickness, cut the birdsmouth,
taper, glue, and smooth. And when you think about it, the only extra
step from building a solid stick, is the birdsmouth cut--and that is
easy. Two passes per easily handled stave along a fixed fence with a
blade at a fixed height on a tablesaw. Even if the cut doens't come
out perfect, the mast will. Just use a little extra thickened epoxy!
John O'Neill
If the walls are .76", and the top of the mast is 2", there is plenty
of clearance. .76 x 2 = 1.52 leaving .48" diameter hole in the top.
The staves in this case will be tapered right down to nearly the tip
of the birdsmouth cut, with about .04" to spare, as the staves will
be .8" wide at the top of the mast, and the cut will eat up 1/2 of
that. But that .04 is all you need. I'd highly recommend making the
mast 10% wider than Bolger's octoganal stick. Then you can go down
to 15% of diameter as a wall thickness, and have a stonger, lighter,
stick that nobody can tell is fatter than the next guys....
I hope all these numbers don't put you off. The system is
dimensionally integrated. For an eight stave stick all you pick is
mast diameter and wall thickness, and everything else falls into
place. All you do is cut to width and thickness, cut the birdsmouth,
taper, glue, and smooth. And when you think about it, the only extra
step from building a solid stick, is the birdsmouth cut--and that is
easy. Two passes per easily handled stave along a fixed fence with a
blade at a fixed height on a tablesaw. Even if the cut doens't come
out perfect, the mast will. Just use a little extra thickened epoxy!
John O'Neill
--- In bolger@y..., porcupine@d... wrote:
> If you follow the standard formula for the birdsmouth spar, Micro's
> main mast should have 0.76" thick walls. However, the top of the
mast
> tapers to a 2" diameter, meaning that the inside 1/4" of the eight
> staves are going to be trying to occupy the same nonexistent space.
> How is this resolved?
>
--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
have built Micro's out of thicker than normal plywood, my calculations
indicate that a boat built of 3/8" pine would weigh 200 lbs. more than
one built of 1/4" fir. As I am a minimum of 25 miles from a
navigable waterway (and more like 50 miles from any worth sailing in)
I would rather have a boat that is handy to trailer. Pushing the
boat's basic weight to over 1000 lbs. is not the way to do that...
Albany and get AB fir, probably even in 1/4". Using better quality
materials appeals to my sense of style, however. Call me profligate, I
don't care. Most people who know me think I'm a cheapstake....
> Porky --Cost isn't a factor as much as is weight. While a number of people
>
> Reuel Parker is a backer of sheathed BC yellow pine plywood,
> especially when cost is a factor.
have built Micro's out of thicker than normal plywood, my calculations
indicate that a boat built of 3/8" pine would weigh 200 lbs. more than
one built of 1/4" fir. As I am a minimum of 25 miles from a
navigable waterway (and more like 50 miles from any worth sailing in)
I would rather have a boat that is handy to trailer. Pushing the
boat's basic weight to over 1000 lbs. is not the way to do that...
>Western Catskills. The truth be known, I could drive 80 miles to
> Where are you that you can't get fir plywood?
Albany and get AB fir, probably even in 1/4". Using better quality
materials appeals to my sense of style, however. Call me profligate, I
don't care. Most people who know me think I'm a cheapstake....
>responses,
> >AC fir is unavailable here. BC yellow pine is as good as it gets.
> >Marine fir would cost me more than Okuome, so I'm going with the
> >Okuome,
> >
> >porky
> >
> >--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On the other issue, plywood, I received only a couple of
> >> >to the effect that Okuome is the way to go, all things beingequal,
> >> >and that Philippine Mahogany (which is luan, I think) is notworth
> >> >the money I would save by using it. I guess I'll shuffle off to
> >> >Buffalo and get me some Okuome, then,
> >>
> >> Okume? Ouch! In all of this the phrase "glass-sheathed AC fir"
> >never came up?
> >>
> >>
> >> YIBB,
> >>
> >> David
> >>
> >> CRUMBLING EMPIRE PRODUCTIONS
> >>http://www.crumblingempire.com
> >> (212) 243-1636
> >
> >
> >
> >Bolger rules!!!
> >- no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> >- no flogging dead horses
> >- add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> >- stay on topic and punctuate
> >- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
>
>
> CRUMBLING EMPIRE PRODUCTIONS
>http://www.crumblingempire.com
> (212) 243-1636
Porky --
Reuel Parker is a backer of sheathed BC yellow pine plywood,
especially when cost is a factor.
Where are you that you can't get fir plywood?
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 243-1636
Reuel Parker is a backer of sheathed BC yellow pine plywood,
especially when cost is a factor.
Where are you that you can't get fir plywood?
>AC fir is unavailable here. BC yellow pine is as good as it gets.CRUMBLING EMPIRE PRODUCTIONS
>Marine fir would cost me more than Okuome, so I'm going with the
>Okuome,
>
>porky
>
>--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
>>
>> >On the other issue, plywood, I received only a couple of responses,
>> >to the effect that Okuome is the way to go, all things being equal,
>> >and that Philippine Mahogany (which is luan, I think) is not worth
>> >the money I would save by using it. I guess I'll shuffle off to
>> >Buffalo and get me some Okuome, then,
>>
>> Okume? Ouch! In all of this the phrase "glass-sheathed AC fir"
>never came up?
>>
>>
>> YIBB,
>>
>> David
>>
>> CRUMBLING EMPIRE PRODUCTIONS
>>http://www.crumblingempire.com
>> (212) 243-1636
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
>- no flogging dead horses
>- add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
>- stay on topic and punctuate
>- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 243-1636
David,
AC fir is unavailable here. BC yellow pine is as good as it gets.
Marine fir would cost me more than Okuome, so I'm going with the
Okuome,
porky
AC fir is unavailable here. BC yellow pine is as good as it gets.
Marine fir would cost me more than Okuome, so I'm going with the
Okuome,
porky
--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
>
> >On the other issue, plywood, I received only a couple of responses,
> >to the effect that Okuome is the way to go, all things being equal,
> >and that Philippine Mahogany (which is luan, I think) is not worth
> >the money I would save by using it. I guess I'll shuffle off to
> >Buffalo and get me some Okuome, then,
>
> Okume? Ouch! In all of this the phrase "glass-sheathed AC fir"
never came up?
>
>
> YIBB,
>
> David
>
> CRUMBLING EMPIRE PRODUCTIONS
>http://www.crumblingempire.com
> (212) 243-1636
>On the other issue, plywood, I received only a couple of responses,Okume? Ouch! In all of this the phrase "glass-sheathed AC fir" never came up?
>to the effect that Okuome is the way to go, all things being equal,
>and that Philippine Mahogany (which is luan, I think) is not worth
>the money I would save by using it. I guess I'll shuffle off to
>Buffalo and get me some Okuome, then,
YIBB,
David
CRUMBLING EMPIRE PRODUCTIONS
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 243-1636
As the person who initiated this thread and its subsequent sub-
threads, I must say that I'm impressed by the response. I'm also a
little less confused. Getting back to the subject that hatched this
egg, and at the risk of beating dead horses (not to mention mixing
dumb metaphors), I have discovered a conundrum concerning the
designed taper of the Micro main mast and the
Noblesparswallowtailbirdsmouth technique.
If you follow the standard formula for the birdsmouth spar, Micro's
main mast should have 0.76" thick walls. However, the top of the mast
tapers to a 2" diameter, meaning that the inside 1/4" of the eight
staves are going to be trying to occupy the same nonexistent space.
How is this resolved?
On the other issue, plywood, I received only a couple of responses,
to the effect that Okuome is the way to go, all things being equal,
and that Philippine Mahogany (which is luan, I think) is not worth
the money I would save by using it. I guess I'll shuffle off to
Buffalo and get me some Okuome, then,
Thanks,
porky
threads, I must say that I'm impressed by the response. I'm also a
little less confused. Getting back to the subject that hatched this
egg, and at the risk of beating dead horses (not to mention mixing
dumb metaphors), I have discovered a conundrum concerning the
designed taper of the Micro main mast and the
Noblesparswallowtailbirdsmouth technique.
If you follow the standard formula for the birdsmouth spar, Micro's
main mast should have 0.76" thick walls. However, the top of the mast
tapers to a 2" diameter, meaning that the inside 1/4" of the eight
staves are going to be trying to occupy the same nonexistent space.
How is this resolved?
On the other issue, plywood, I received only a couple of responses,
to the effect that Okuome is the way to go, all things being equal,
and that Philippine Mahogany (which is luan, I think) is not worth
the money I would save by using it. I guess I'll shuffle off to
Buffalo and get me some Okuome, then,
Thanks,
porky